No Such Thing As A Fish - No Such Thing As The Icelandic Trampoline Corps

Episode Date: October 23, 2020

Dan, James, Anna and Andy discuss American Spooks, Indian Athletes and French Donkeys.  Visit nosuchthingasafish.com for news about live shows, merchandise and more episodes.

Welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from four undisclosed locations in the UK. My name is Dan Shriver. I am sitting here with Andrew Hunter Murray, James Harkin, and Anna Tyshinsky. And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days. And in no particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that's Anna. My fact this week is that in India, you automatically get a government job if you qualify for the Olympics. And if you win a medal, you get a promotion. Wow.

Does the size of the promotion depend on the size of the medal? Not the size of the medal, the material from which the medal is made. Yeah, you don't get so giant gold medals to you. It does, yeah, essentially. I think the level of promotion depends on how well you do generally. And it's not just at the Olympics, it's in various other sports. sporting competitions. So this is a system which seems to exist state to state. They have various different policies from one state to the next and it seems to also exist at a federal level.

And the truth is that to train to qualify for the Olympics is basically a full-time job. And a lot of people can't afford to take time out of work. Like where do you find the money to support that? The athletes diet can be very expensive. And so the way the Indian government and state governments encourage their citizens to get sporty is to give them government, jobs, which is like monthly salary, you can't be fired, you get medical care, you get a pension, but they do actually have to turn up to work. I have a question. Yeah, go on.

If you, are the government jobs you get related to the sport that you do? So if you're a really good high jumper, do they sometimes give you a job like turning on light switches on very big walls? Oh yeah, those really high light switches that are purposely beyond normal humid. I guess the reason they put them there in the first place is because they were installed by high jumpers. Exactly, yeah, it's a vicious circle It's the whole thing, is it? I mean, is it like that?

It's not, though, is it? No. It's the answer. It's exactly like that, yeah. It's a very good question. They almost all work for the railways, didn't they? Or a lot of them do. Yeah, police force as well.

The biggest employers are the railway, the police force, the army, but various government departments. So there's an air rifle world record holder called Sumer Shiro and she got a job on the railway, for instance. And she had to turn up to work, sort of, No, I don't think every day, but quite regularly, and just did data entry. And literally sitting at a computer doing data entry in order to claim her government salary. Well, did she do it from a computer which was 10 metres away from her?

Because she's so good at air rifle. Well, and she was shooting it. Like she has to shoot each key. There was an old game called Duck Hunts, which came out before any of you guys were born, which probably would be quite useful for that. Exactly. Yeah, that's how she trained. I think I'd stretch this beyond the point.

But it seems like in some cases that it's the other way, round, they became athletes and tried to get into competitions just to secure a lifetime government job. Wow. Because you get, as Anna said, the pensions, you get medical, you get lifetime job, basically. But surely that would be easier to just get the job than become an elite athlete, considering how difficult it is to become an, you know, you have to get to the Olympics. That's pretty hard.

It must be easier. Some people are very bad at data entry, James, but naturally quite fit. It's amazing how badly India does at the Olympics relative to the popular. population size. So they've won 28 medals total at the Olympics, which is the same as Michael Phelps has won. Wow. Now it's obviously, Michael Phelps is very, very good at the Olympics, but India has roughly a billion people. And in 2008, they won one medal per 383 million of their population. So it's a low hit rate, basically. That's what people say, isn't it? Like, it's not really fair the Olympics, because, you know, you might say, well, it's not fair that, you know,

some countries in the Eastern Bloc might have used drugs or whatever. But also it's not really fair that the rich countries just get to do way better because we have way better diets. We have better facilities. We have better everything in the Western world. So, yeah, it's pretty hard to be just a lowly born Indian person and get into the Olympics. And that's a huge amount of the population are basically excluded because of, for financial reasons, from even ever having this as an option in their life.

So it's not really a billion people who are, you know, in the pool. to be selected. But there's a stat that I read in an article talking about this where they said that there's more than 100 billionaires in India. That's a lot of, that's a lot of billionaires, which mean there must be a lot of millionaires, which must mean there must be a middle class that is good at sport and have the facilities and have the training. That's true. They just don't do it for some reason. Well, there's a saying. There's a popular Hindi saying, and this is the translation of it. It's, if you study hard, you will live like a king, but if you play sports, you will ruin your life. So it might be a cultural thing as well. I think there's a bit of a disadvantage as well to the

people who have grown up wanting to work and get high up in the railway services. Imagine you're like, I want to kick ass and be at the height of this job. And then you've suddenly got this Olympian, who's won a silver medal, getting promoted over you because that's part of the, like there's a guy called Sandeep Sejwal who he competed in breaststroke at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. And he's never been to the office because he's always training, but he's got this full-time job. And he says, if you swim continuously and win a medal at the nationals or just represent the Indian railways at the national level, you can get promoted. So I'm going to file for a promotion. Hopefully I get it, and then I'll be the boss. He might be the boss of some guy who's worked his whole life to get up

the railway. It's mad. The system's crazy. I think we'll know when the entire Indian railway infrastructure falls apart, it's because of this breaststroke professional who's risen to the top and ruined it. Yeah. But it's good for the state departments because what they get in return is PR, right? So it's sort of seen as them representing the police or the army or the railways when they go and compete. Yeah.

That's what they get in return. Also, the Indian Railway competes in national championships of things. So like you might have American colleges competing or at least like on a semi-professional level they play, but the Indian Railway has like teams that are in all of these different spots. So it does give them, you know, like Anna says, a lot of good PR. Have you guys heard of Abinav Bindra? No. He's great. He is an air rifle champ. India's actually really good at the air rifle for some reason that, you know, countries just have the thing that they're really good at. So when he won, his training was amazing for it.

So he ordered 10,000 specially Chinese-made air rifle pellets, right? and he weighed every single one of them on the super sensitive scale, and he looked at each one under a magnifying glass, and if there was any irregularity in it, it went in the bin. Wow, you see, that's where the admin skills come in, isn't it? Right, that's data entry. He's got a spreadsheet with 10,000 pellets in it. He, Abanov Bindra, is India's only gold medalist, isn't he?

He's the only individual to win a gold medal. Right. Yeah, so they want, basically India's won a very large number of gold medals in hockey, to be fair to them. They did really dominate. 1920 to 1980, they won 11 medals in 12 Olympics in hockey and eight of them were gold.

And the highlight was 1948. And this really must have felt good. 1984. So immediately after independence for India when the final or the silver gold, you know, showdown over the Olympics was against Britain and they beat Britain 4-0. So it must have been fun.

Well, they had that golden period where they were winning goals. It was 1928, 1932, 1936. They won the golds. And they had this one amazing guy called Richard Allen, who was the goalkeeper for the team. And in that time, in those three Olympics, he only conceded three goals.

One of them was in 1932 when they were playing in L.A. They beat America. They beat the USA 24 to 1. And the only reason they scored the goal was because Richard Allen was off-field signing autographs for fads. No. He just sort of went off to sign.

Yeah, and that's the only time that they got a goal. I would say that's bad goalkeeping. That's amazing. At the 1948 one, the hockey team when they won would have got their gold medals, but no ribbons because this was the austerity Olympics. So this was held in Britain and was, you know, rationing was still happening.

Everyone was bit poor. There was that whole war thing that just happened. And so it was the austerity Olympics. Medals were given without ribbons. I can't believe that they made the saving on the ribbon. I can't believe they looked at the big gold medal and ribbon combat. Where can we economize? But you can't just give people a ribbon.

So this rule in India, they've changed it slightly this year. So there's more sports that you can do, which will allow you to get your government job. So if you are in the tug-of-war, you can get it now. If you play roll ball or if you play Malacamb, so those are the three main new sports that have come in. Two of them are traditional, well, two of them are Indian sports. Roll ball isn't traditional Indian. That was invented quite recently, and that's kind of, it's like basketball on roller skates. And Malacamb is a traditional Indian sport, and there was a Malacam team who have already got Olympic medals.

So Malacamb is a sport where you get a big, huge pole and you have to balance on top of it while doing yoga moves. Okay, so this is a really awesome sport in India. and in 1936 there was a Malacamba group who went to Germany and they showed off their skills and Adolf Hitler was so impressed that he gave them all Olympic medals. Wow! I read a tiny bit about Malacamb. Is it true that the pole in Malacam

represents the phallus of Hanuman, the Hindu monkey god? And did Hitler know that when he gave out of these medals? I think probably. Yeah, I do know you have to lubricate it before you get on it. so you don't get any wood burns. Wow. That's fair. But a lubricated pole would not be a very stable slip, wouldn't you?

That's the sport, Dan. Yeah. Right. There's a difference. There's different levels of lubrications, I suppose. You can have, like, just covered in butter, or you can have it just slightly smooth so you don't, like, get any splinters. And I think it's closer to the second one.

Is it, are they doing the yoga moves on top of the pole? Yeah, they're kind of balancing. So imagine a yoga move where you're on one foot and then your other foot is kind of wrapped around your head or something. Well, you're doing that, but your foot on the ground isn't on the ground. It's on top of a pole. And is there on the top of the pole? Is there a little platform you can squeeze your foot on?

Not a platform. It's the end of a pole. It's the end of a pole. But it's kind of... That's very difficult. Well, that's elite sport for you. Again, I think probably easier to just do the exam to get into the goal. government job, but yeah, I'll stick to data entries. It feels like it's a tie-in with the

pole vault that they should be able to do, as in you start doing the pole vault, but at the way on, when you get right to the top, you just stay there. Oh, you're downward dog. Yeah. That occasionally does happen with with pole vault where they kind of get to the top and they run out of momentum and they're almost, it looks like they're just going to stay there. And then what happens is the weight of the person kind of bends the pole down and they get sprung off like a cartoon. That does happen on occasion. Yes. They never get stopped. at the top. That's funny.

Eventually, the Olympics just goes home and they just left there at the top of somebody, please. Okay, it's time for fact number two, and that is my fact.

My fact this week is that the photo of the Wright Brothers first flight was taken by a man who had never used a camera before. So we're lucky

it's not just a picture of someone's feet. Lucky you didn't have it on selfie mode or something. This first ever photo. His first ever photo? I read that he'd never seen a camera before.

Yeah. It was a thing. Exactly. Like every, imagine the day for that guy, he's seeing a camera, he's seeing a photo, a plane's flying. This is, this is magic. Yeah. So this is a guy called John T. Daniels.

And he was working at the life-saving station at Kill Devils Hill, which is where the first flight took place on December 17th, 1903. And he was positioned with the camera by the, by the, by the, by the, the Wright brothers who were obsessed with cameras. They told him everything he needed to do. And there's really a lot of risk when you think about it as well, because they needed to position the camera at a place where they believed the plane was going to take off, having never took off before on a plane. They needed to tell him the exact moment for him to press this button that would allow them to capture the perfect shot. And they were giving it to a man who,

as we said, not only had not seen a camera before, but was about to witness flight, man-powered flight. And so there was a genuine moment where he almost forgot to press it because he was so in awe of the historical thing that he was seeing. And at the last second, kind of shook himself and took the photo. And by some insane magic, we have the perfect shot. It developed perfectly. It caught it perfectly in flight. And it's an amazing photo. It's a cool thing to reflect, actually, when you look at that picture, which I guess people have probably seen before, to think how unlikely that was. So that was actually going to work. I mean, how did they pick the exact spot? Because you can't swivel it round, can you?

No. Exactly. I don't think they had a turn. Even if they did, the guy wouldn't have known what to do. Yeah. And from the account of it, he was also that day involved in the first ever plane crash. Yes. So, because after they landed it, after their flight, it blew away. Because it was a really light. It was basically a glider with a little bit of an engine. And he got tangled up in it. He tried to grab it as it blew away, like just tried to stop it from, like, and he got sort of caught up. it and had to be helped out and he was injured. Yeah. Yeah. When he flipped over, he was holding onto a strut and all the others let go, but he desperately

didn't want this thing to break. And so he flipped over with it and he was a bit mangled, but he was fine. But they let him keep the strut that he was holding onto, which he kept forever for the rest of his life and he would carry it around with him. And every time he told this story, this amazing story of being the first person to be in a plane crash, he would take out a penknife. And as he was telling it, he would shave off. off a little bit of the strut and he would give it to the person he was telling the story to.

Wow. You've got to limit the number of times you tell that story, haven't you? Towards the end of your life. I'm really sorry, I can't tell it today. I've just got a bit of sawdust left, to be honest. Oh, just find another piece of wood. Exactly. It must be like the crucifix, you know, the true cross.

Relics. Yeah, relics. There's a billion Wright Brothers planes worth of strut shavings out there now. But you say so he thought he was witnessing this incredible historic moment, which he did, and I think there were sort of four or five people there who did think that. But I hadn't quite realised that the rest of the world, A, thought it was nothing what had happened, and B didn't believe it. So they were completely ignored by the press. For five years after 1903, that first flight, newspapers and journalists just didn't believe them.

They told newspapers on the day that this is what they were trying to do, and they basically thought these guys were crazy crackpots. It's such a slam to say, not only did nothing happen, we don't even believe that nothing happened. Yeah, I know. I know. Quite nicely, the only paper that did report on them on that first day, it was a paper called the Virginia Pilot by chance. But the way they got the story was the Wright brothers, once they'd achieve flight, they telegraphed their families to be like, hey, Mom, hey, Dad, we've flown.

And so the telegraph operator said, oh, couldn't help but notice that message you just let me give you a mum and dad. Do you mind if I tell the press? And they said, no, don't want you to tell the press, because they wanted the press in Ohio where they were from to get the story first. And the telegraph operator ignored that, told the Virginia pilot,

but Virginia pilot knew nothing about it, so they completely made up what had happened. And so they had them flying for sort of three miles. You know, I think we've said before, they only flew for about 100 feet, 120 feet. They were like they flew for three miles. They were 60 foot in the air when actually they were 12th above the ground or something.

They said Wilbur was flying the plane when it was Orville. And so the first account of the Wright Brothers flight was total fiction. Total from the Virginia pilot. I thought it was in a B magazine that they first reported in. It was gleaning's in bee culture. So I think those are the later... Because they kept flying.

I don't know if you guys know that, but they actually did more flights after their first ones. And the... I say quit while you're ahead. Completely, yeah, yeah. But they were doing these flights... Oh, where exactly was it? I can't read for it still a killed.

In Dayton, no? In Dayton, okay, yeah. And this was in 1904 and 1905, when they were making flights up to 40 minutes long and nobody paid any attention. It was amazing. I made dozens. But this guy, Amos Ives route, he had kind of heard about it. And he saw them flying because they were out in the sticks. They weren't near a major population center.

And he wrote to Scientific American. And Scientific American didn't reply. So he wrote it in gleanings in bee culture along articles, which are things like beekeeping in the southwest and midwinter flights of salad bees. and it's just mixed in with that. Do you think they've got complaint letters from B fans saying, I couldn't really see what relevance to your article about the first ever powered flight had? Amos A's Rout was so cool,

so he owned the first ever bicycle in Ohio. That makes him cool. Definitely. Yeah, he was friends with them, wasn't he? And I think he just had his own kind of comment page in gleanings of bee culture where he was allowed to write about whatever he wanted, even if it wasn't about bees.

That's so cool. The first lot, what was the hill called, Dan? It was called, Kill Devil. Kill Devil. So Kill Devil Hill. And that was in Kitty Hawk, wasn't it? That's where they did it. And the reason that they went there is Wilbur, well, when you're flying, you need like

some wind coming straight towards you. It helps you to take off, right? And he wanted to find out where the best place in the US to go for that was. So he wrote to the US Weather Bureau, who sent him data on the, the wind velocity in more than 100 places around America. And he settled on this place where he knew there was a hill. He knew that they had really good, steady wind always coming in their favor. And then he went to Kitty Hawk because it was just like a bit of nothing kind of marsh,

not marsh ground, but kind of wilderness ground. There was nothing there. There was like 50 households. They were all descended from sailors who'd been shipwrecked there over the years. So they were all like, it was like a sailing community. And the richest person that lived in that town, was a guy called Doc Cogswell, and he was the richest because his brother owed him $15,000.

That's the worst kind of wealth. I'm broke, but I'm owed it. It sounds miserable that when their conditions, when they were living there, because they had to dig for water. They had to catch their own fish. One of them said that there were so many mosquitoes, they almost darkened the sun.

Whoa. I know. It just sounds like a really unpleasant living condition. but they went out there for weeks and weeks on end. Yeah. And it's got such an ominous name. If I were trying to fly for the first time ever, I would ask not to fly in a place called Kill Devil.

I don't want either of those words in the place I'm attempting to fly. It's true. And it was a thing, wasn't it, that people not only didn't believe it, but they didn't think it was possible that we could fly. And there's a few, you got some famous quotes from that period before they went up of people saying, this will never happen. there was one bishop who was asked if he thought that flying would ever happen, and he said, what a nonsensical idea.

Flight is reserved for the birds and the angels. And that bishop was called Bishop Wright, and that was the father of the Wright brothers. Really? Yeah, who absolutely thought there was no way. And once they did it, and after the years of them doing it, he actually loved it. He used to go up with the brothers.

Separately, he had a rule they couldn't fly together. He didn't want to lose them both. in a crash, but he would fly with one of them and he'd go higher, higher, get me higher. I think he went up just once, didn't he? It was the one day he allowed the brothers to fly together in 1910. It was that day once he'd done that. Yeah, they didn't all go up in the same plane, though. No. That would have been really all-legs in one basket. Yeah, you just got mum left. Not the bishop. But it wouldn't have been, it wouldn't have been just mum left because there were two other

right brothers. Yeah. And they had... Yes. They had more weird names. The other brothers were called Roachlin, Roichlin and Lauren. And they just worked as bookkeepers, and they appear to have had no interest in flight. Whereas the Wright sister is the reason that we kind of accept the Wright brothers as the first flyers today, because the Smithsonian, they thought that the first person to fly was a guy called Samuel Langley, which he did in 1903, nine days before the Wright brothers. but what he actually did was fly his plane for about maybe about half a meter

before it smashed straight into a leg or something. But they said they didn't believe the Wright brothers at all. And so they decided that this guy Langley was the first person. But then for years and years, Catherine Wright, who was the sister, it was her life's job to try and make sure that people believed that the Wright brothers were the first people to do it. And she was super famous in her day, wasn't she, Catherine Wright? Yeah, it was pretty much the thing.

three of them who were equally famous, it seems, because the Wright brothers were bad with the press. I think they were not good media personalities. They were very shy, whereas Catherine Wright was very gregarious. And so she was like the front facing right. And so she like met the King of Spain and the Prince of Prussia and spoke for them at events. She got the French Lesion Donner, which they gave the Wright brothers and Catherine at the same time, the highest order of merit you can get in France. And yeah, she was great. And she was the first woman ever to attend the Aero Club de France, because basically when they went to France, which was when they became massive, really, because in America, they were kind of ignored, especially they tried to sell the planes

to the military and the military just weren't having it. So they said, fuck, it will go to France instead. But the French, they love kind of aerospace. They loved the balloons. They loved their new gliders, things like that. And so when they saw, they right brothers, they absolutely loved it. And Catherine was the main face for that, like Anna sense. Very cool. She had kind of a sad end. So they were incredibly close and they seemed to have had a pact Wilbur, Orville and Catherine that none of them would ever marry. I think we think that's what happened

and they made this pact very, very early on and she stuck to it, she was incredibly close to Orville so Wilbur died in 1912 I think but Orville lived a long time. Very close to him but eventually 1926 age 51 she decided she wanted to marry her childhood sweetheart and Orville completely stopped speaking to her.

That is mean. That is harsh. That is very harsh. What is harsh? Childhood sweetheart. you've waited about 45 years to marry someone. It is harsh because they seem to have had that pact where none of them will marry, but for Orville and Wilbur, it seemed to be quite an easy thing to keep

because they weren't particularly good with the press, but they just weren't good in social situations at all, were they? Whereas, like Catherine, she was just everywhere. So were the two brothers just not romantic people at all, and they've got this mega babe sister? But they keep saying, no, no, no, we made a pact when we were all nine, that nobody will ever get married. The brothers, they live together, work together,

ate together, and they even shared a joint bank account, Orville and Will back. Really? So, yeah, that's kind of easy. And then Catherine went on to become a suffragist, didn't she? Yeah. And also the vicar went on the march with her. Not the vicar, what was he called?

The bishop? The bishop. Yeah, the bishop, sorry. And the bishop went on the march with her. So he kind of in his, and that was when he was in his 80s. So he was kind of like joining him with all of the. kids stuff when he got a bit older. That's really fun. He really embraces kids' hobbies. What an amazing 80s he must have had just being a bishop your whole life and then you get to

go on a plane, you get to go on March. That's really cool. That thing about how they only became successful when they got to Paris. So in Paris, I think Wilbur was the one who went to Paris and Orville stayed in the USA and Wilbur was a bit more of a showman. He was better with the press than Orville. Orville really was quite reclusive and shy. Wilbur was put up in the Hotel Maurice. Have you heard of this place? Oh my God, it's amazing. I got in a complete distraction about this amazing hotel he was put up in. So it's very, very classy. It still exists today.

The lift was a copy of Marie Antoinette's sedan chair. That's how sort of lush this hotel was. Everyone has stayed there. Awesome Wells, Rudyard Kipling. Picasso's wedding meal was there. Salvador Dali stayed for one month every year. And he once ordered a flock of sheep to be delivered to his room so he could fire his pistol at them. blanks it was blanks

um even so i if i were at the hotel reception and someone asked for that and told me why they wanted it i think i wouldn't do it i'd at least call my manager and say i'm not comfortable doing this he might have asked he might have given you the other task which was he asked staff to go to the tuileries garden and catch flies for him for five francs per fly wow when i used to work when i used to work in a hotel they used to say to you you have to say yes to everything, basically.

Unless it's illegal or immoral or whatever, if they ask you for something, you always immediately have to say, yes, I can do that, but it might cost a lot of money. You know, you have to agree to everything. Wow. And just hope Dali doesn't check in.

Oh, no, you see the handle-bound mustache coming around the corner. Oh, here we go, okay. Quick, hide the clocks. There's one other thing about this hotel, which is where the decision was made not to blow up Paris. So in the war, Hitler really kind of went off the deep end towards the end, I would say. And he, as the retreat was being sounded, he ordered lots of key bits of Paris,

you know, the Louvre, Eiffel Tower, the bridges over the sand. He ordered them to be wired up with explosives, which they were. And General von Choltitz was in the hotel, and it's there that he made the decision. He was either persuaded, we think, there are various different versions of events, or he was trying to save his own skin. And that's the hotel where he said, actually, maybe there's a lot, let's not blow up the most beautiful city in Europe.

Let's just leave. That is interesting. But there is one other thing about the Hotel Maurice that you might be interested in, Andy, because we have mentioned it before quite recently. And that is because they had 148 pneumatic clocks in their hotel, one in each room, that were attached to that air system in Paris.

Of course. Oh, I'd forgotten that. That's so cool. Of course they did. I really hope that when Dali did Roomservis, he would save the crazy request right to the end so that the person would think they were getting away with it. What can I get you, Mr. Dali? It's just eggs Benedict this morning, an orange juice, please, and is that it? One more thing. 7,000 sheep. And a gun.

Okay, it's time for fact number three, and that is James. Okay, my fact this week is that on the French island of Eel de Re, the donkeys were trousers. Sounds like the start of a kid's book, doesn't it? Do they wear the trousers? What do you mean? Like, do they wear the trousers? Oh, I see. As in, as in charge.

Well, I would say with a donkey, basically, the donkey always wears the trousers, don't they? They don't do what you tell them to. Very wise. Not really. but these are originally working donkeys on this island. They used to work in the salt marshes. And in the salt marshes, there are lots of mosquitoes, maybe not enough to block out the sun,

but there's definitely a lot of them. And so to stop their legs from getting bitten, these particular donkeys, their owners would put little kind of trousers on. And they look a bit like, you know, really old-fashioned pajama bottoms, which they would tie around the bottom part of their legs. and their butt is still exposed.

So it's like, like, pajama bottoms with a, with a flap, allowing your buttocks to kind of hang out. And so these days, they still wear the trousers, even though they don't work in the salt marshes, but they just give rides to children around the local park, which no matter what you think about donkeys giving children rides, whether that's fair play or not, definitely better than working in the salt marshes.

Donkeys around the world, they do seem to have a very two-track career path. Either it's horrible, back-breaking work and they get really mistreated all over the world or it's working at seaside taking children around for a bit. They are quite, these ones are amazingly big, aren't they? Before you start finding two, sorry for them having children on their back. I didn't realise a donkey could even qualify as a donkey at this size.

So their Bordeaux de Poit-toe is what they're cool, I think. They can be 16 hands, which is, that's like a big horse. That's a horse that you feel really high up when you're sitting on it. 16 hands is a big horse. I think I might have met some of these donkeys. Wow. Because they have them in the new forest. Do they?

Yeah, they do. They have a few of them in the new forest. Was it really fluffy? Like they're quite fluffy. They've got long shaggy hair. It was very shaggy. We met one right up close, although it wasn't 16 hands eyes.

Maybe it was a younger one. Presumably without the trousers on. It had no trousers on. Not by the time. No, don't go there. That's what we're. really cool because they're very rare. You've seen an endangered species there. I may have just seen a normal donkey. I feel I already regret. You may have seen a sheep. It's possible. But they're

less rare than they used to be, aren't they? They went really, really rare in the 70s and 80s, so much so that there were only, you know, a dozen or so of them left that could reproduce. But now, thanks to some kind of bits of conservation, there's a lot more of them in France. And they're starting to send them to other places like the new forest, I assume. Yeah. I think there's about about a thousand, isn't there? Maybe just under a thousand in the world. And you should look them up.

They do look bizarre. They look a bit like, you know if you have an old English sheep dog, the really shaggy dogs, but they've got quite a irresponsible owner who doesn't look after their coat and it really dreadlocks. It's like that, isn't it? They've got long dreadlocks. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

What would you replace a donkey with on a beach if you had to? I reckon like maybe seven ducks and they have like a little carriage underneath them that the child can sit in and then fly around. You know, I'm thinking Wright Brothers-E kind of flight is a future. I mean, that is nice. I'd go to that beach. That's dangerous. Health and safety. It's never going to pass.

Sorry, Grant. In 2016, Torbay Council replaced their donkeys with three small trampolines and there was outrage. Really? Because it wasn't as much fun. They said this is just not as good for children or for the donkeys. The donkey keepers were furious. Well, do the kids have to haul the trampolines along the beach then? And if you want a ride along the beach, the trampoline's not going to cut it.

Yeah. You could jump from one to the other, but I think if there are only three small trampolines, it's quite a short ride. It's a quick ride, yeah. You're not getting far. In Iceland, when I went to Iceland, every small town has like a massive trampoline in the middle of it. It's so weird. Yeah. It's like, you know how in most in like towns you might have a park that kids play on with swings and slides and stuff.

In Iceland, they just had these massive. massive kind of plastic, kind of tarpaulin things that appeared to be filled with air. I don't know what they were filled with because I never jumped on them much to my shame. But they were like, yeah, just everywhere you went, it seemed like kids could play on these bouncy things. Like bouncy castles, almost. So bouncy castle, right? James, is it true? I think I've read that they were initially for defence, as in you'd have to have someone guarding constantly jumping up and down,

looking out for an invading army. Yeah, I was, you know what, at the start of that sense, I genuinely thought that you were about to say something real. I saw you going along with it. So donkeys, eh? Donkeys. Donkeys are cool. The word donkey used to rhyme with monkey.

Donkey? Donkey. Used to be donkey. Nice. And it didn't really exist until the start of the 17th century. You would always say ass or ass instead of donkey. So in Shakespeare, there won't be any donkeys. They'll all be asses.

and in the King James Bible. Was it because it was also rude and an insult that they kind of bolderized it? There is one thought that that's it. The word probably comes from Dunn meaning brown or grey, but I think that's why the word donkey became more commonly known is because of the association with bums. Like rooster, because in America they didn't want to say cock,

so they said rooster instead or man chicken. Man chicken sounds more rude, I think. Yeah. So the donkeys in the UK They are big on the beaches Obviously there are still lots of donkey rides So you know the donkey sanctuary That's the one of the major donkey charities in the UK

And they have I'm going to say secret agents Who travel around the UK Checking up on donkey abuse And making sure that they're not being badly treated Or that their backs aren't being strained at the beach And they can turn up and they can I think they have the power of

they don't have the power of arrest but they do have the power to take your donkeys away. So is that if you're doing donkey rides on the beach and someone who looks especially like an adult but is dressing up as a child and claiming they want a donkey ride turns up but has sort of a notepad they're trying to hide,

that's probably your guy. So they go undercover? I think they do go undercover because if they phone ahead and say I'm ringing from the donkey police then you'll just get out the nice donkey. Whereas if they turn up incognito they see you've got your ratty old donkey

and you're beating it, then Del and Devine. Yeah. Wow. Good. Doing great work. It might be quite fun to be a donkey in the US. Specifically, if you're Packborough Racing in Colorado, which is a sort of ancient, historic Colorado sport, and it's in honour of miners, so you used to go gold mining with donkeys. And the rule with packborough racing is that a donkey can't carry a person,

but a person can carry a donkey which needs be in it. And you basically have to run along with. with your donkey. Right, okay. Is it one man, one donkey? One man one donkey. Okay. How often does anyone actually carry the donkey though?

Because they're pretty heavy. They're heavy. I was reading one person's account of his Pat Borough race where he should have carried the donkey and didn't. So I think they must be too heavy. This is a guy called Curtis Imri, who's a veteran borrower racer. And he was really near the end of a 15-mile race. And suddenly his donkey called Jackson had to cross a wooden bridge.

And as donkeys, I want to do, he'd cross the bridge countless times before, suddenly stopped. Like, not doing that. Stubborn. And right at the end of the race. And he had to tie Jackson to the bridge, walk into town and return with a winch-equipped Jeep to pull the donkey over the bridge,

at which point I don't think he'd won the race anymore. That's amazing. But yeah, they do freeze donkeys. That's the weird thing about them. I hadn't probably realized that's what they're doing. Like horses, if you scare them, bolt. A donkey goes stock still. turns to stone.

Yeah. Right. Well, this is why people think that they are stubborn. And this is some study done by the donkey sanctuary in the UK, which is about people's perception of the donkey, which incidentally found their Britain's second favourite farm animal. Pretty good. Oh, can we guess the favourite?

After... Cow. Got to be sheep. No one said the right answer yet. Chicken. A horse. Man chicken. No.

That's got it right. It's a horse. Everyone loves a horse. Anyway, sorry, that's completely irrelevant. A cow doesn't come into the top two. Yeah. No one likes cows. Oh my God. Wait a minute.

Donkey is number two. Yeah, this seems rigged. Because I think if you are a kid and you have like a set of all your family yard animals, very rare is there a donkey in there, is it? Or certainly cows and sheep come in first. Are you guys suggesting that this study conducted on behalf of the donkey's sanctuary in any way improperly done? No. But basically, people think they're still like...

I just want to carry on talking about this. What they've done is they thought, right, we need to make it seem like it's the best animal, but no one's going to believe us if we say that the donkey is the most popular five-yard animals. So we're going to have to put it in second place. That's what they've thought, isn't it? It's like when, you know, Kim Jong-un gets 97.9% in the election. It's like, oh, no one will believe 100%, so I have to go down a bit. Yeah, but 55% of people do think they're stubborn.

And the donkey sanctuary explained that they're not stubborn. They're just freezing. One in three people think they're affectionate, and only 18% of people think they are charismatic. Yet they rank number two. This doesn't add up to me. Okay, it's time for our final fact of the show, and that is Andy.

My fact is that in the late 1960s, the CIA considered assassinating people using lightning. Wow. Is that you bringing back your old nickname and admitting that you were part of the CIA? I'm very glad that you've mentioned my old nickname being Lightning because I'm determined that it's going to make a comeback. So this is something, there's a great article on Forbes about this,

a journalist called David Hambling. I found it. And it was a proposal in 1967 that was made seriously, but it wasn't carried out. But the idea was developed. They thought, well, lightning's pretty powerful, isn't it? And if there was a way of directing lightning, then you could get it.

They used a real euphemism. They said it would produce effects favorable to our purposes. I don't think you'd have to read too much between the lines to realize that that's killing people with lightning, basically. And yeah, the plan was basically to get a very, very thin wire, which would be only a fraction of a millimeter wide, but several miles long, to effectively drop this from an aircraft or to use a kind of, of parachute to keep it up there for a long time. And then if there was a storm happening above the person you wanted to assassinate, it didn't rely on that. That was the flaw in the planet.

The person had to be in a lightning storm. But wasn't also a flaw. They had to somehow get this wire next to them. So like you've run over to someone and say, oh, just hold this wire, will you? Exactly. So it was, those were the disadvantages. There were advantages, obviously, like, cheap because you're not being getting an electricity bill for this and also it leave no evidence you know yeah but you can always have incredible advantages to something impossible that's true I think we should go ahead with the impossible thing because the advantages are just so good yeah that was I mean the disadvantages were big as well yeah I think there's contextual evidence I think that if fidel Castro had suddenly been struck by lightning around that period it would have

been very suspicious. Well, if all the CIA's enemies suddenly got hit by lightning, I think you can do it twice. I had a good luck to see of all that there's a list of Wikipedia people who are killed by lightning to see if any of them were possibly enemies of America at this time. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I couldn't find any, I'm afraid. Few sports people.

One person from the American War who was a guy who invented the phrase, no taxation without, what's that one? No taxation. He was killed by lightning. James, you're not a true believer in democracy really, are you? What's the thing that we need for them to attack us? I don't really give a shit. Yeah, so, not unfortunately.

Yeah. That's a shame. So those were the most notable people on the list. There wasn't really anyone. There was a few people from the, you know, from ancient times who were killed by lightning. Not that many famous people are killed by lightning, it turns out. It feels like if the CIA had time travel and this thing. they probably still wouldn't use it.

Just think of the advantages of time travel though. I know it's impossible, but just think of the advantages. Let's just do it. Why aren't we doing it? I can see, you know, anti-universal suffrage campaigner, politician, not liking the no taxation without representation guy. I think there's the kernel of a conspiracy theory there that he was assassinated. Yeah, I was aiming for a conspiracy theory,

and I was aiming a bit higher than this, to be honest. I was hoping that. an actual, you know, dictator from the, from the Soviet times had died. Yeah. Shame. They came up with some pretty wacky plans, didn't they? Yeah. There was, there was sort of a massive dump on all of us, which you might remember in 2017. We all got done.

That's a strange, that's a strange weapon, isn't it? Yeah. A shit bomb. They just came onto me in the streets and said, hold this wire. And then before I knew out, I was covered in shit. No, 2017, the CIA sort of dumped 13 million pages of documents on us. by putting them online. And that was 800,000 declassified files, which useful journalists went combed through

and found the insane plans they had. Like, I think it came out that they interviewed Yuri Geller. I think that's one of my favorites in the 1970s. They took an interest in spoonbender Yuri Geller. And according to him when he was asked about it, he said they were afraid that there were people like him in Russia, who I guess would pose a threat by bending cutlery in the Soviet Union somehow. And the way they tested Gellarie,

to test his skills was they shut him in a room and then the CIA taped to the wall outside his room a picture of something and the way they chose the picture was they opened a dictionary, they got a word so they chose the word for instance bunch and then they drew what first came to their mind a bunch and then they asked

Yuri on the other side of the wall to draw what he sensed the picture was was a bunch of grapes well exactly he drew 24 purple grapes to be fair there were 24 so that's kind of impressive but Basically, the CIA's conclusion was

he has demonstrated his paranormal perceptual ability in a convincing and unambiguous manner, which I would say he hadn't. You hear bunch, you think grapes. But they didn't, did they tell him the word bunch? Yeah, they said bunch. Oh my goodness. They said, we've picked the word bunch out of the dictionary.

Come on. Draw the first thing that comes to Mike. We'll give you a hint. But he did draw 24 grapes and they had 24 grapes in their picture. Yeah, but I have to specify, they did this on him dozens of times and he only got a few of them right and that was one of them.

I would have drawn some flowers. Yeah, a bunch of flowers. You know what? I deliberately went with grapes thinking it was the wrong answer as well because I was thinking it would be flowers. James, you are the new Yuri Geller. What's more impressive is if you say that you've picked the word giraffe and it's actually a dump truck and he draws a dump truck, that's, you know.

Yeah, that's true. That's when you know you've got someone dangerous on your hands. The most impressive thing that Yuri Geller did and the most controversial actually was in Euro 96. He was flying over Wembley Stadium in a helicopter, I think. And Gary McAllister

was taking a penalty for Scotland, which would have put them level with England in the game. And if you watch the video back, the ball moves about one inch

just before he kicks the ball and he misses the penalty and then Gaza goes at the other end and scores. And Yuri Geller claims that he made that ball move. But he doesn't claim it was the downdraft

of the helicopter. He says it was his magic powers. But I thought you were going to say he dropped a bent spoon on his head, which is slightly concussed. Weirdly, I read a thing just this morning about Yuri Geller, which is that in 1974, he was, a paternity suit was filed against him by a young mum in Sweden. She didn't claim that he was the dad. What she claimed was is that his magical bending powers had altered her contraception coil and it became inoperable and she got pregnant as a result. And as a result, he should pay for that because he's the sort of pseudo father.

Wow, that's a really difficult position to put him in because on the one hand, he really wants to admit to having those powers. Well, it was the same with the football thing, because he wants to claim that he moved this football, but actually he had 11,000 hate letters from Scottish people after the game saying, how could you scupper our chances in the European championships? Wow. Hey, I read a really cool invention by the CIA, which was used. It's called the Skyhook.

And the Sky Hook was basically a way of extracting CIA operatives or anyone that was in need of help who was involved in the military in some way from a location without having to get on the ground to pick them up. So what it was is that they would drop a package over to where they believe the operative was. And the package had a little description on it. And in it, they had a helium balloon that would lift the cable 500 foot into the air. and then the operative would strap themselves to a harness that was connected to the other end of that cable that went up with the balloon and they would sit and wait until a very slow-flying plane would fly to where the helium balloon was and it would hook its nose of the plane around the hook that had been sent up and it would carry the guy off into the air and back to safety.

That is so cool. I mean, if you timed it right, you could say, just so you know all this time, I've been working for the CIA. and then bang, you go out of there. But if you get that even slightly wrong, then you're just immediately arrested. Yeah. Or if a lightning storm comes over and it attaches itself to the 500 foot wire.

He told us he was working with the CIA and then he just exploded. It was really weird. Yeah, I can see why they didn't go with that. Or sort of any of their mad plans. I wish someone one day had turned around at the CIA in sort of 1950, just early on and said, you know these crazy ideas we keep having,

that never come to fruition. You know the ones that always work? They're the ones where we just shoot someone in the head. Do you just do that from now on. There was a guy called Edward Geary Lansdale, and he was with the CIA, and he was requested by the president of the Philippines to come over. There was a United States military assistance group

to come up with ideas to fight the communist Hocbalahap, which was a regime that was threatening the Philippines at the time, and he came up with this idea of convincing them that there were vampires out in the woods. and the way that he actually tried to convince him that this was really happening is they captured an enemy soldier and they drained the blood from his body

and left him making it look as if he was trying to flee and got caught by one of these vampires so when they found him they believed the myth was real. It's bizarre, these little tricks. Who benefits from this? Well, I suppose if you've got an enemy believing that there's something paranormal going on as well as an enemy who are physically real,

that just keeps you on edge. It keeps you psychologically all over the shot. Because do you remember that fact that you and I both found Dan about in Japan, they were going to capture some foxes and then paint them in luminous paints and then release them into the Japanese countryside so that people would see these glowing foxes and think that they were some mysterious kind of apparition? Yeah, that's right. They would believe, and there was a thing where one was connected to some balloons. the idea was there's a floating fox guard. You'd just see the balloons, wouldn't you? Not at night, and you would just see the illuminated figure of a floating fox. And again, is the idea that you sort of make them all a bit edgy

because there are these scary foxes around. Or that everyone thinks it's a Pokemon and chases after it. Again, there's just always, you know, Killjoy Barry in the corner of the meeting there going, guys, should we just shoot them in the head again? I'm really sorry. is a great idea. One CIA agent, maybe the most surprising one, I found out about, was the Dalai Lama.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, in the 1960s, his group was being given over a million dollars a year by the CIA. And they did deny that the Dalai Lama was on a personal retainer of $180,000 a year. His organization have denied that. But that's because the CIA were paying for guerrilla operations against China

when China invaded Tibet. and so the Dalai Lama was an important part of that resistance. So we don't know what his kill total is. Yeah, that's a great series of novels to be written, the secret CIA adventures of the Dalai Lama. But that's another one where Barry never gets what he wants, because if you do shoot the Dalai Lama in the head, he just comes back. That's so frustrating, isn't it?

It's just a pointless assassination. He's on your side. You wouldn't shoot your own agent. Maybe if you're playing a double bluff, maybe it's the Jason Bourne. But think of it, the Dalai Lama can get to anybody. There's no one going to refuse a meeting with the Dalai Lama on security grounds. No, that's true. Yeah, yeah, true. A lot of the people in the CIA are just massive nerds, right?

They're kind of our people. So like when WikiLeaks exposed a load of stuff that the CIA was doing in its hacking program, we managed to see a lot of what the tools were called and what the programs were called. And they're all named after memes or references to pop culture. There's one of them named after a World of Warcraft Trading Card. and there's another one that's named after some characters from Talladega Knights, which is the Will Ferrell movie. And there was another document where a guy just listed a load of awesome tool names

he wanted to use at some stage, including awesome mctool name and starving weasel. And the second of those is a weird Al Yankovic song. And they're just like, we've got to invent something so that we can give it this really nerdy name. Yeah. So funny. Somewhere there's a dangerous sniper CIA agent who's just heard. James call him a nerd.

What's that red dot that's just appeared on my head? Actually, that's a myth, isn't it, about the red dot? Because lasers go in a straight line, whereas bullets don't go in a straight line. So there's no point having a red dot aiming at someone's head because it's pointing straight from the gun. You need to be aiming slightly above the person's head if you're a sniper. So in the film, it should be there's a red dot slightly above you on the wall.

And that's when you know you're in danger. And if there's a red dot on your head, head. You think, oh, few, I'm sorry. No, you don't. You think, oh, shit, they're going to shoot me in the balls. Okay, that's it. That is all of our facts. Thank you so much for listening. If you would like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we have said over the course of this podcast, we can be found on our Twitter accounts. I'm on at Schreiberland, Andy. At Andrew Hunter M. James.

At James Harkin. And Anna. You can email podcast at QI.com. Yep, or you can go to our group account, which is at no such thing or our website. No such thing as a fish.com. of our previous episodes are up there. Links to bits of merchandise are there as well. We hope you're doing well, everyone. We will be back again next week with another episode. We will see you then. Goodbye.