Noble Blood - A Medievalist of the Seven Kingdoms (with Dr. Hugh Doherty)

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

Dr. Hugh Doherty (University of East Anglia), the historical consultant for A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, joins the podcast to discuss 14th century tournament culture, the dangers of jousting, and the Bayeux Tapestry. Support Noble Blood: — Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon— Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story' and its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story'See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. This Financial Literacy Month, we are talking about the one investment most people ignore, building a business around the life you actually want. It was just us, making happen whatever he said was going to happen, and then it happened. On Those Amigos, entrepreneurs like America Sam and Joe Huff, get real about money, taking risk, and while your dream might be the smartest move. At the end of my life, what am I really going to care about?

And the conclusion I came to is what I did to make the world a better place in whatever way. Listen to those amigos on the I-Hive radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Amy Roboc alongside T.J. Holmes from the Amy and T.J. podcast. And there is so much news, information, commentary coming at you all day and from all over the place. What's fact? What's fake? And sometimes what the F. So let's cut the crap, okay? Follow the Amy and T.J podcast, a one-stop news and pop culture shop to get you caught up and on with your day.

and listen to Amy and TJ on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of IHeart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. Hi, this is Dana Schwartz, and I am so thrilled to be here today with a very special interview. I'm talking to Dr. Hugh Dordy, who's a professor at the University of East Anglia in the UK. He focuses, I think primarily on medieval topics, your lecture in medieval subjects, but very exciting to my personal interests is he served as the historical consultant on the truly excellent television series,

A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. And I just want to be very clear. This is not a sponsored episode. No one is paying me to do this. I just genuinely, personally, love a television show so much. And so I'm personally so delighted to be speaking with you. Dr. Doherty, thank you for joining us. It's a pleasure to be here.

Just to dive right in, can you talk a little bit about your field and your subjects that you primarily focus on when you're not consulting for historical fantasy series? I have an expertise in 10th and 11th and 12th century Europe. And as I was all the way own choice, I wanted to teach, I'm fascinated with ancient history. So I teach a module on the Roman Empire. And I also teach a module on the 100 Years' War. So I know a little about a lot. Well, that's sort of the motto for this podcast, where I've covered several thousands of years of history. What I love about a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and Game of Thrones in general is it very clearly takes place in a fantasy world, but there are analogs to real British history.

I think it's pretty clear that the original Game of Thrones series is a take on the Wars of the Roses in the 15th century and the House of the Dragon, sort of the prequel series, seems inspired by the, The Anarchy, the period with Empress Matilda. When does the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms? I'm going to say take place, again, even though it is very much a fantasy series. I agree with everything you've said about, by the way, about the Night of the Seven Kingdoms. I've only seen the first two episodes at the moment. Oh, you've got to get on it. The ending, really.

They really stick the ending. I know. I just thought they were marvelous. And in fact, they were so good. they made me go back and watch the House of Dragon, which I had not seen. And I was absolutely, I'm only sort of halfway through season one, but absolutely spellbound. In answer to your really interesting observation and question, by noting that I think George R. Martin is a superb historian. He knows his stuff. It's not just he knows

chronology and reins and personalities, but he understands the operation of power in these societies, like few other people do. And I think he's done a fantastic job. And often, as I've said, that Game of Thrones, House of Dragon, and now Knight of Seven Kingdoms are often more accurate in how they represent the texture of society than series and films that are allegedly about the Middle Ages. So I think that's an important point to note. I think 97 Kingdoms, when I talked to Ira Parker, the writer and showrunner, about the period he'd asked George R. Martin what was the sort of, you know, that if he had to pin it to a particular century, which century would it be

and George R. Martin came back with the 14th and that is the as you know it is the age of the tournament and of the first two-thirds of the 100-year-s war. So how did you, obviously

you know a lot about the 100-years war in this period, how did you connect with Ira Parker who created the show alongside George R. Martin and the team at HBO? It's just luck. I've done this before. It all started by somebody.

When I was at Oxford, I was a research fellow, and someone at the history faculty got, received a phone call and from a film company who needed somebody to advise on something else. This is many years ago. And the person who answered the phone said, oh, I know someone. So I said yes to that. And I've been sort of picking up the phone or answering emails ever since. So it was word of mouth essentially.

So it was a great joy to be asked as a fan of Game of Thrones long before all of this. It was a great, it was an honour to be asked. And essentially it came down to Ira and myself having these interviews with Ira, I think, in L.A. and myself here in Norwich, in Norfolk in England. Just discussing tournament culture, nightly. politics, warfare, 100 years war. It was just fantastic because Ira wanted detail. You know, more detail the better. And he had lots of fascinating questions. It was a real joy to sort of be engaged in the creative process at an early stage. You know, I've been on productions where I've

been invited in at the very last minute. And then, to some extent, everything is fixed. While with this, I could suggest things that could be then fed into the script and the writing. It's very exciting to me what this show did. And like you said, it captures the texture of the medieval world, obviously, even though it takes place in a fantasy world. But what a knight of the Seven Kingdoms does that other Game of Thrones series don't do is it's very focused on a brief period of time rather than spanning years. We are focused on one tournament. Can you tell us a little bit about what tournament culture was like in the 1300s in England? I would start by saying that there was a nightly culture that united all of Europe. So the same men who on battlefields are

trying to kill each other are on the tournament field interacting with each other as competitors and sportsmen, and as colleagues and as fellow diners and feasters, it's an aspect of elite culture that draws men and women from across Europe. So it's something that they share. So while at the same time, they're often killing each other in the great battlefields and sieges of the Hundred Years' War, at the same time, in moments of truces or peace, or sometimes interacting with these campaigns, they are also participating in these tournaments. They were splendid opportunities for the elite of Europe

to gather, to show off their wealth, their accoutrements, their gear, their households. And the comparison I've always made is that tournaments were much like film festivals. In that, it was as much about what was happening after the film showings, the soirees, the dinners, as what's happening in the film showings.

And so it was as much about what's happening off the tournament field as on it. There's no doubt that there is the principal action is the demonstration of skill at arms on the tournament field for all to see. And then this will occupy each day. And then in the evenings, they'll be feasting and dancing and poetry and interaction. between competitors and between women and families and households. And I think that the Knights of the Seven Kingdoms did a brilliant job in bringing that out, that interaction that happens off the tournament field. So there is great drama on the field, and that drama could be, you know,

it could be just knights taunting against each other, but they might also reenact episodes from antiquity, from the classical world or from the legendary world. So it develops in Spain, actually, this notion that knights would hold a bridge and would defy any other knight to cross the bridge or that they would reenact a battle of King Arthur. It's like children playing Red Rover or King of the Hill.

Absolutely. It's as much about reenactment and display. It's a celebration of the aristocratic imagination. What I always found, you brought up King Arthur, I've always found it personally fascinating that to a modern layperson, their conception of King Arthur,

if they're imagining him, is in the 14th century as a knight of chivalry when, of course, King Arthur, who didn't exist, if he did exist at all, would have been 9th century, maybe. But I find it very interesting that our popular image of this character

is in the era where he was popularized. Absolutely. I know of medievalists who don't like the kind of thing I do, who, you know, laugh at or comment on sort of making a fantasy world accurate, to give it text, Joe, and so on. But I think what's really interesting is that the kind of world that George R. Martin has created is one that any 14th, 15th century audience would have loved. I mean, the tales of nightly drama, of heroes rising through the ranks. This is that world of Arthur that they love reading about, hearing about, and reenacting. So there is actually a nice continuation between the, as you say, the legendary world of Arthur that they believe in and they love, and that has shaped Western culture, you know, the pre-Raphaelites, Wagner, Excalibur, up to Game of Thrones.

it's part of a, in a way, a shared tradition that we are still buying into. They were celebrating King Arthur as a fictional night, the same way we're talking about Sir Duncan the Tall. Absolutely, absolutely. And in the same way that people who watch the Night of Seven Kingdoms on a Sunday evening in the States or Monday evening here would go to work the following day. Exactly.

With their imaginations, there's there on the underground or the bus or driving to work, and they're thinking about tournament culture and daring do and honor and all this sort of thing. I think the 14th century audience thought exactly the same when they were on their way to church or going to see family or going to the law courts or inspecting their stables, they were also thinking about Arthur and the Knights of the Roundtable. So it populated their imaginative landscapes. And to be frank, and I don't want to generalize, but it does seem like for most people, being alive in the 14th century would have been quite boring and bleak and challenging and physically arduous.

I imagine these tournaments were a opportunity for a chance for levity and fun and community that might not, you know, might just be church and working in a field the rest of the time. They were immensely popular. They were great fun. I would say no age likes to think of themselves as an age of boredom. And when we have evidence, there is a lot of drinking, merrymaking, dancing in the lives of peasant farmers. I mean, there's also starvation and there is harsh justice and there is a famine around this era. Exactly. And plague, but, you know, plague is no respect to reverecter. rank was no respect to a rank, as COVID was no respect to rank. And it's also been pointed out the number of saints days. Saints days are holidays. And there are so many saints days, it's sometimes difficult to say how many days these farmers are actually working. They got more time

off than most Americans. Absolutely. But having said all that, there is no doubt that tournaments were in immense draw for all different sections of society. I think what we also have to remember is that it was talked about. So even if people weren't there, it was talked about and listened to in the weeks and months afterwards. And that was a, I remember being in a restaurant and listening to an account of a football match at another table. And more or less, all of the restaurant was gripped by the discussion of this match that

only that table had seen. So the same, I think, was true in the middle, even more true the Middle Ages, that it was topic of discussion. And you can imagine how the stories got better in the telling. So in a real tournament in the 14th century, if I were a knight or a nobleman competing, what would be at stake for me? Not your life, not your life. So it's very rare for might to be killed. Now they sometimes were, sometimes as a result, because it's a danger sport, and sometimes because there is suspicion of murder, they use a lance they shouldn't have done. The lances were meant to have this sort of non-lethal end, but that could sometimes be altered, so it was lethal. There are deaths. But they would above, what was at stake, honor, glory, above all.

It's slightly different from the tournament of the 12th and 13th century where you could make your fortune by capturing other knights and then selling off their horses, their armour, and even ransoning them. When you say capturing other knights, do you mean just beating them in a joust? Yeah, unhorsing them and then as it were. So the 12th century and 13th century tournaments weren't as a joust. as we imagined them, as they became in the 14th century, they were sort of pitched battles where killing wasn't the objective, capture was. And they were fought over large sort of football fields. So these huge battles taking place where they're not killing each other,

they're just trying to capture each other. And then you could sell off your captives to make a nice fortune. It alters. So in the 13th and then the 14th century, it becomes much more a display of arms and a quest for honor and glory. And it's about, it's just about as, you know, make an impression on all of the glamorous people, the men and the women as much as the men who are present and for showing off, you know, your horsemanship, your skill at arms. That's what's at stake. And we can't underestimate the importance of honor for these men and women. I'm Iris Palmer and my new podcast is called Against All Od And that's exactly what the show is about doing whatever it takes to be thoughts

Get ready to hear from some of your favorite entrepreneurs and entertainers As they share stories about defying expectations, overcoming barriers and breaking generational patterns I'm talking to people like award-winning actress, producer and director Eva Langoria I think I had like $200 in my savings account and my mom goes what are you going to do And I was like I'll figure it out We got a one-bedroom apartment for like $400 a month, and we all could not afford. Like, I was like, how am I going to make $100 a month? I'm opening up like I've never before.

For those of you who think you know me from what you've seen on social media, get ready to see a whole new side of me. Listen to Against All Odds with Iris Palmer as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, gorgeous. It's Lala Kent. Host of Untraditionally Lala. My days of filling up cups at. sir, may be over, but I'm still loving life in the valley.

Live on the other side of the hill is giving grown-up vibes, but over here on my podcast, Untraditionally Lala, I'm still that Lala you either love or love to hate. I've been full on over sharing with fans, family, and former frenemies like Tom Schwartz. I had a little bone to pick with Schwarzy when he came on the pod. You don't feel bad that you told me I was a bootleg housewife? I almost flipped a pizza in your lap.

Oh my God, I literally forgot about that until just now. Sorry, I don't want to blame. alcohol. I got to blame that one on the alcohol. This is about laughing and learning when life just keeps on life in. Because I make mistakes so that you guys don't have to. We're growing, we're thriving, and yes, sometimes we're

barely surviving, but we do it all with love. It's unruly, it's unafraid, it's untraditionally la la la. Listen to untraditionally la la la on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You can have opinions. You can have like a

strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something I sort of have imagined from popular culture is a knight extending his lance and getting the favor of a woman, her maybe tying a ribbon to the end of the lance. Was that something that actually occurred? Yes, absolutely. In fact, it's even more, our evidence is even richer and more complex. We have high-status women decided who was the champion after so many days of fighting. And as it being, it wasn't just simply about calculating points and scoring victories,

but a noblewoman might often be entrusted with deciding who was the bravest, the most skillful knight. Or dispensing with a range of prices. or giving the prize, it might even be a wild animal. We know of one tournament where the prize being competed for was a bear. What would you do with a bear if you won? Is it bear baiting? Is that the answer? I don't know.

I mean, Henry II has a bear in the 12th century. I think bears would do tricks. And I think it was just such a large and hungry beast to feed, that it was kind of, you know, it was a demonstration of wealth and power. So you come home from the tournament and you bring back a bear. I can't imagine anyone's wife being too pleased about that. No, though it's a noble woman, according to this evidence, who gave the bear away, who was in charge of the bear and gave it as the gift to the victor.

Though when Henry Earl of Derby in the 1390s, he went to join the Teutonic Knights in one of their campaigns and he goes twice and on the second time he misses them they've already campaigned in the summer against the Lithuanians so he goes on it because he's got money

this is the future Henry IV he goes on a kind of great pilgrimage to Jerusalem and around Europe and he picks up all these gifts and he comes back with a leopard and so you could you know the menageries of these aristocrats at these tournaments could be

quite spectacular. I mean, that sounds spectacular. Who in general is funding these tournaments? Is it always the king, local nobleman? Is there a system in place? It's largely paid for out of the noblemen. The noblemans, if they want a tournament, they pay for it. There are some tournaments where, because it's quite a high-profile tournament, kings get involved and they'll they'll fund it. They'll pay for the whole thing because it, you know, there's a very famous tournament in France in 1390 in which three great French knights challenge all of Europe to battle them. And it takes place over a really significant, something like 30 days of fighting. As a demonstration of endurance, it's very impressive. It's paid for by the French king because it's bringing great

honor and glory to the French kingdom. He didn't start with him, but once he hears about it, he wants to sort of support it, so he funds it. I mean, that makes sense. 30 days also seems like such a long time where that's like, don't, don't you have jobs to do? Aren't there any wars to fight? Absolutely. The fascinating thing is a recent study of this particular tournament demonstrates that it's happening up the road from where the negotiations were being conducted between the French and English delegations, trying to thrash out a piece. So it looks like there's actually overlap. People are moving from powerful negotiating to the tournament field so that are at the tournament itself, you know, over the drinks and the feasting at night, they're also

talking about how they can work out a lasting piece, which is very interesting. I mean, that is. That's such an interesting contrast that there's this lasting piece and then this foe battle happening juxtaposed literally right next door to each other. Absolutely. And these are men, the three knights are all involved in the hundred years war. One of them, in fact, would be captured, what, 25 years later at Ajinqor. So, you know, it's really fascinating how these individuals turn up in all these different campaigns and tournaments. When you mentioned earlier that their lives wouldn't necessarily be at risk in these tournaments, which are not intended to be deadly.

But of course, accidents do happen. I mean, a few centuries after the period that we're talking about, the King of France, who was Henry II will die in a jousting accident. Were there any notable tragedies that come to mind for you? In particular, in the 13th century, there are a number of high-ranking casualties. who are killed in tournaments, and in both cases, murder is suspected. Interesting. As in people wanted to sort of use the cover of the tournament to kill people that they

actually wanted to kill. Absolutely. So there was aristocratic feuding, and they want to settle scores. There are, of course, jewels to the death, a bit like you're casting that microphone. You know, one of the most famous jewels. is fought at the French court and was the subject of that very good film, The Last Jewel, about a charge of rape.

And that is to the death. So there are these incidents. I mean, Henry Earl of Derby, who I've just mentioned, was compelled to fight a duel with Thomas Malbury, Duke of Norfolk over charges of treason in 1399 before he was exiled. by Richard the second. He didn't, the jewel was never fought at Coventry,

but it came very close to being waged, and then was stopped by the king. The last duel, which Ridley Scott made a film of, a phenomenal film, I thought. I thought it was excellent. That also captured what a jewel to the death was like, so that they do occur, but the jewels are separate from the tournaments.

One other thing that occurs in the television show, night of the Seven Kingdoms, is a trial by combat. They end up doing a trial where it's seven against seven. I hope I'm not spoiling anything, because I won't reveal any outcomes. But is a trial by combat something that actually occurred during this period? Absolutely. And it had been a part of elite culture and justice from a very early date, I mean from a sort of post-Roman date, late antiquity, the evidence from among those who settled in the Roman Empire from the 5th and 6th century of this kind of means of resolving feud of fighting jewels. So it goes from being part, it seems, of pagan Germanic elite culture to being something within the Christian fold that jewels are

fought often as a result of charges of treason in the 11th and 12th century. So when men are charged with treason, they deny it. And then they have to fight to defend their position. And there we have an account from a jewel that is fought in Flanders in the summer of 1127. And it's horrific. It's just like the jewel in Game of Thrones, where the chaps are. are pulled out or squashed out. And there's something not quite the same, but something similar. We have an account of it takes place after the assassination of the count of Flanders in 1127 that sets off a chain of events that leads to civil war in Flanders. And there is this jewel about charges of complicity in the assassination. And we have an eyewitness account of the

jewel in which one sort of one of the knights against another, more or less disembows the opponent. And then the opponent, as he's dying, is then executed because he's lost the jewel, which is God's judgment. He's thus been found guilty. So really quite unsettling. Quite uncomfortable to physically imagine. Uncomfortable. Yes, absolutely.

One slightly lighter question to end on. Another theme in Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is sigils and symbols on shields. Can you speak a little bit about what the purpose and meaning of these heraldic symbols were, and if you have any personal favorites? This is really interesting because the tournament appears to emerge out of a tradition of cavalry games that goes back to the Roman period. So we know that the Romans liked their military cover. entertainment. And that then develops in the, in the early Middle Ages, under Charlemagne and his

successors. And out of that, in the late 11th century, very likely in northeast, what is now northeast, France, Belgium and the Netherlands, there emerge as a tournament culture. Why that should be, remains unclear. But associated with that is the development, fascinatingly, of heraldry. So the history of tournaments and heredry are seen to be closely connected. That's fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, there's been lots of warfare in the early Middle Ages, and there's been no real evidence of heredry of aristocratic houses.

That changes in the late 11th century, and it's linked to tournaments. And it looks like that different families are keen to demonstrate their presence, their power, their identity, their membership. with these choice of arms and this decoration on their shields and on their tenants. So you look at the Beiotapestry and there's very limited, very, very limited heraldic decoration. I think there's a dragon on a couple of the shields of the knights on the Beotapestry. There's a dragon standard, but otherwise there's an absence of heraldry. But 40 years later, after 1066, 1070, the day to the Beauder,

tapestry, more or less. Arms are being used by elite families. And as the period proceeds, 13th, 14th centuries, they get quite complex and very colourful and very interesting. My favourite is a bit earlier, in the early 12th century, there's the seal matrix of a English sheriff and justice. And it's a very peculiar because it shows a knight fighting a monster, a kind of griffon-like beast, who is holding a kind of small other beast in its mouth. It's not quite clear what's going on. It looks like that the smaller beast is directing the greater beast against this knight. It's like a crang situation.

It's like a small guy controlling a big guy. It's exactly that. And it's really fascinating. It's clearly an insight into how this knight saw himself as a kind of fighter against the forces of darkness on behalf of his king. So it's a really fascinating insight into a mentality. I love that. If you have access to it, please, please email it to me. I would love to see that.

But it is fascinating to imagine that these knightly heralds are performative more than functional in that sense. if they corresponded with the rise of these tournaments, they were outward facing symbols. And I think that's such an interesting analysis. Absolutely. But having said that, I would also want to make the point that they then, of course, as you know, they are then functional. And in the stress of battle, you know, seeing these standards.

And in the close visor of these helmets, seeing a standard of your Lord or of your king is can rally your spirit and can also show you where to rush to. There's no accident that Henry Vth placed himself at Ajancoor right on the front line with his royal war helm so that everybody could see where he was to rally the lads, in other words, in the heat of battle. And of course, something to bring it all back together, something I think that Night of the Seven Kingdoms communicates very well, is it is difficult to see in those visors. Absolutely.

If you lose sight of your lore, I mean, going back to the Bayo Tapestry, Battle of Hastings, it seems like your king is down. Who knows what to do? Absolutely. The confusion and terror of battle. In fact, there are two different kinds of helmet. There is the tournament helmet, which is a big showy-offy gear. And then there's the sort of battle helm where a lot like Israeli tank commanders were trained to drive with their heads

out of the tank hatch to give maximum mobility in the 1960s and 70s. Knights in English armies and French armies in the 14th century preferred helmets without visors so that they could see the action. It was much more dangerous, of course. Henry V gets an arrow as a 16-year-old boy in his face at the Battle of Shrewsbury because he's got his visor up because he wants to see what's happening and lead his men. then it's a serious business. It's a serious business.

I've already taken far too much of your time. I could talk to you for hours. This is fascinating. One last question just before you go, how do you feel something very exciting for medievalists is about to happen in the UK, which is the Bayou tapestry coming back? I'm very, very excited.

I'm also deeply nervous. That's what people say. It's a little controversial. You know, I can see post-Brexit, the B word. good thing to be reminded of our remarkable and rich shared history with the continent. I'm a little bit anxious about the transport of this remarkable object. I mean, you know, it is very, very fragile and it should be preserved. It's survived after all.

It has survived Napoleon. It has survived the Vermark and the SS. It has survived a great deal. and it needs to be preserved so that future generations can enjoy its fascinating detail. If I'm correct, Harold with an arrow to the eye. Absolutely. Though everything about the Bay of Tapestry is an enigma and a challenge. So the problem with that is that we think we're not actually sure which figure,

because it says Harold, but it's not quite clear which figure is Harold. There is a figure with an arrow. and then just to complicate things more, there is evidence that the arrow is a 19th century restoration. Oh, no. So even something as sort of accepted and known as the arrow in Harold's eye and the Beir Tapestry, which is not even certain if it's part of the original decoration. It is that there is everything about the Beir Tapestry is an enigma.

The more you look at it, the more complex and the more interesting, interesting it becomes. I know. I just gave a thousand medievalists a heart attack by saying Harold died with an arrow to the eye, reinforcing the historical myth. I was just at a seminar where the historian was talking exactly on this point.

Harold may still have died by an arrow, and there may be an arrow there in the tapestry. That may indeed be Harold. There's just this problem that there is evidence of slight heavy-handed restoration in the 19th century. century. I'm sure those historians, Medivas are still alive. Okay, good. Dr. Doherty, I cannot thank you enough for your time for this fascinating conversation. I can see why Hollywood keeps calling you. It's just a pleasure to talk to you. It's been a pleasure, Donna. Really? Thank you.

Noble Blood is a production of I-Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz. Writers for Noble Blood are Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Paul Jaffe, Natasha Lasky, and me, Dana Schwartz. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk and Nome's Gripen with supervising producer Rima Il Kali and executive producers Aaron Manky, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This financial literacy month, we are talking about the one investment most people

ignore. Building a business around the life you actually want. It was just us. Making happen, whatever he said was going to happen and then it happened. On those amigos, entrepreneurs like America Sam and Joe Huff get real about money, taking risk, and while your dream might be the smartest move. At the end of my life, what am I really going to care about? And the conclusion I came to is what I did to make the world a better place in whatever way. Listen to those amigos on the IHare Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change.

We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions, you can have like a strong stance, and then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, folks, Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. And we know there is a lot of news coming at you these days from the war with Iran to the ongoing Epstein fallout, government shutdowns, high-profile trials. And what the hell is that Blake lively thing about anyway? We are on it every day, all day. Follow us, Amy and T.J. for news updates throughout the day.

Listen to Amy and T.J. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.