Noble Blood - A Scandal at Tranby Croft

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Queen Victoria's son, Albert Edward, was gambling with his friends at a country estate when the host's son noticed one of the guests cheating. Eventually, that evening playing baccarat spirled into a ...scandal that forced the Prince of Wales to take the stand in court.  Support Noble Blood: — Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon— Noble Blood merch— Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story' and its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story'See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot.
Starting point is 00:00:15 But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, The cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:00:44 Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of IHeart Radio and grim and mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. On September 8th, 1890, the Prince of Wales, Albert Edward, aka the son of Queen Victoria, and the future King Edward the 6th, arrived in the town of Hull for a night of debauchery with a retinue of fellow bachelors and ladies. He was staying at an Italianate mansion,
Starting point is 00:01:17 given the slightly pretentious name Tranbycroft, an estate owned by the wealthy shipowner, Arthur Wilson. After dinner, someone in the group proposed that they all play Baccarat. Though Baccarat had been recently made illegal if money was involved, it was still all the rage amongst the upper crust. Albert would frequently spend evenings at Marlborough House, playing a backy, as he called it, when he wasn't going to the opera or attending wild parties with chorus girls.
Starting point is 00:01:52 Even though there was no backer-at table at Tran Bicroft, the guests made a makeshift one by pulling three tables together and covering them with a colored tapestry. In case you're unfamiliar, in Baccarat there are two participants, the player and the banker, who each draw two cards face down on the table. The other participants bet on either the player or the banker's hand, depending on which they believe will add up closest to nine. That evening, Albert played the banker. He passed out fancy leather counters, stamped on one side with the Prince of Wales feathers in gold,
Starting point is 00:02:35 and on the other with either two pounds or five pounds, essentially personalized poker chips. While the game appeared to be proceeding as normal, Arthur Wilson's son noticed something suspicious. Another player, Fourth Baronet Sir William Gordon Cumming, was keeping track of, of whether the banker or player won on a piece of scrap paper. Wilson's son, a young man in his 20s, thought he saw Gordon coming secretly add extra money to his bet when the player's cards were good and withdraw money when the player's cards were bad.
Starting point is 00:03:17 Wilson's son turned to another player at the table and told him, the man next to me is cheating. Lo and behold, when that player started observing Gordon, Gordon Cummings, he caught him cheating as well. Neither that player nor Wilson's son said anything at the time, perhaps loath to call out a gentleman. But when the game ended and the group went off to bed, the two discussed what they should do next. Wilson's son was relatively low rank. He was considered a layabout who had dropped out of Cambridge and stagnated. Similarly, his friend was an officer in Gordon Cummings Regiment,
Starting point is 00:04:00 and he wouldn't feel comfortable betraying his superior's loyalty. And so the pair mutually agreed to hold their tongues. But the cheating wouldn't stay secret for long. Wilson's son told his brother-in-law and his mother, who had exclaimed, For goodness sake, don't let us have a scandal here. But despite her very prescient warning, A scandal this became, and unfortunately for her, a scandal that became named after their house. This minor cheating scandal among gentlemen friends would spiral out of control
Starting point is 00:04:40 until the Prince of Wales himself, heir to the throne, ended up being put on trial, one of the only times in English history that a senior royal has appeared in court. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is Noble Blood. The evening after that first game of Baccarat, Albert, Gordon Cumming, the Wilsons, and the rest of the crew staying at Tranby-Croft, all sat down for another game. The Wilsons saw Gordon Cumming cheat again,
Starting point is 00:05:16 using the same method he had attempted the night before. This time, the Wilson family spoke out. The following day, after watching the horse races at Don Cairns, the Wilson's went to two courtiers and revealed what they had seen. Despite having no physical evidence to prove their case, the two courtiers took the accusation seriously and decided to go to the prince before confronting Gordon coming about it. The courtiers decided to approach Albert before dinner,
Starting point is 00:05:48 and they told him about the developing scandal. Albert was horrified. He believed the accusation immediately. It's actually a bit strange how quickly he believed the accusation, given that he and Gordon coming were old friends, while the Wilson's were near strangers. Reflecting later, the prince would say, quote,
Starting point is 00:06:11 The charges appeared to be so unanimous that it was the proper course. No other course was open to me than to believe them. They decided that the best way to quash this cheating scandal would be to confront Gordon coming about it before the next game of Backrat began. The two courtiers initially went to Gordon Cumming privately and warned him that he had been charged with cheating. But Gordon Cumming brushed it off,
Starting point is 00:06:40 quote, Do you believe the statements of a parcel of inexperienced boys, he asked? Later, the Wilson's sat down with Albert and Gordon Cumming and made the accusation to his face. Gordon Cumming tried to dispute the story once again, but Albert retorted, What can you do? There are five accusers against you. The group mandated that Gordon Cumming leave the room for half an hour.
Starting point is 00:07:07 When he returned, he was asked to sign a document which stated that Albert, the Wilson's, and the courtiers agreed to keep his cheating a secret if Gordon Cumming agreed to, quote, never play cards again as long as he lived. Gordon Cumming refused to sign the document, since it would function as an admission of guilt. But the Wilson's were emphatic, that if he didn't, they would spread the story at the race course the next day. And so finally, he signed the document, along with the prince and the nine other men who had played Baccarat with him. In case you were wondering how much he was being accused of stealing, in his two games at Tranbycroft,
Starting point is 00:07:53 Gordon Cumming had made 225 pounds. Over 24,000 pounds in 2025 adjusted for inflation. This was a significant amount of money, but it wouldn't have raised any red flags amongst the high-rolling Marlborough House set. Instead, the real issue with Gordon Cummings cheating was the breach of honor. It indicated that he could not be trusted. That said, while Gordon-Cumbrough was willing to sign the document under pressure in the end, it's still unclear whether or not he really cheated. After all, the only evidence we have is hearsay from the Wilson's, who had almost no Baccarat experience.
Starting point is 00:08:39 A lawyer in 1977, looking at the case nearly a century later, actually suggested that Gordon Cumming must have been innocent, arguing that a man trying to cheat would not so brazenly place his extra counters on the table where everyone could have seen them. But historian Jane Riddley contends that Gordon Cumming was probably guilty. It turned out that cheating at Baccarat, especially when playing with the Prince, was relatively common practice. Albert insisted on playing backerat at most country house parties, much to his courtier's chagrin who were tired of losing money. Instead of potentially angering the prince by refusing to play, they would cheat so they could resist the prince in secret and avoid losing too much.
Starting point is 00:09:30 The two witnesses who were younger members of the court may not have known that cheating was so rampant and naively made it a bigger deal than it actually was. One courtier reflecting on this period said, quote, we all cheated. It was such a nuisance being made to play and and lose money, and the young men longed to be dancing instead. But Coming cheated too much, and he had a lot of enemies, end quote. Still, it was surprising that the Wilson's were willing to go up against Gordon Cumming. Gordon Cumming owned 38,000 acres of land in Scotland, and he had a noble lineage going all the way back to Charlemagne. More importantly, he was close with Albert, even letting the prince use his home in Belgravia for secret liaisons. Meanwhile, the Wilson's were, as Jane Ridley put it, quote,
Starting point is 00:10:28 second-generation nouveau riche, and they had no specifically closed ties with the prince. But Gordon Cumming did have a reputation, particularly one as a lethario. He was known for being handsome with a fine mustache, a keen wit, and such a willingness to speak out of turn that he was called, quote, the most arrogant man in London. He was also quite the womanizer who managed to, I'm quoting him here, perforate, as he called it, many women, and had a controversial preference for married women. He once boasted, all the married women try me. That may have been his downfall.
Starting point is 00:11:13 Two days before Gordon Cumming was caught cheating at Tranbycroft, Albert arrived at Gordon Cummings' London home only to find him seducing Daisy Brooke. Albert's married mistress. Much to Albert's humiliation, he might have wanted to punish Gordon Cumming, and this cheating scandal gave him the perfect opportunity to do so. But still, possibly clouded by a desire for revenge, Albert made a major mistake in signing his name on the document where Gordon coming admitted his guilt. His involvement with the scandal made it much more high profile,
Starting point is 00:11:56 and his signature was evidence that he had been gambling illegally. Queen Victoria later wrote, The incredible and shameful thing is that others dragged Albert into it and urged him to sign the paper, which of course he should. never have done. At the time, Albert had no idea what a mistake he had made. His confrontation with Gordon Cumming seemed to settle the cheating dispute, and he had agreed in writing never to speak of it again. Albert sealed Gordon Cummings signed paper and an account of the events by one of his
Starting point is 00:12:34 courtiers in a packet to keep it safe. He left Tran Bacroft to the morning after and was literally off to the races for another day of gambling and cavorting. But soon the secrets of Tran Bikroft would be out, and they would drag the prince into a public scandal beyond his wildest imagination. In January 1891, Albert saw a shocking headline in the American press. One paper published a portrait of his mistress, Daisy Brooke, with the headline, The Babbling Brooke. The Sopold. The Sopold. The story detailed the backerat scandal, including the prince's involvement, and accused Daisy of leaking it. Daisy wrote to the editors denying the charges, arguing that she was not at Tranbycroft at the time and could not have known about Gordon Cummings cheating. But the editors replied that the story
Starting point is 00:13:35 had been submitted by their London correspondent, a, quote, lady moving in the best society, who swore that Daisy had revealed the secret. If she did spill the beans, Daisy may have learned the story from Albert himself. After Albert's stint at Tranbycroft, he met up with the Lord and Lady Brooke, for tea and could possibly have told the couple what happened. Daisy, known for her indiscretion,
Starting point is 00:14:05 could have plausibly spread the story even further. In any case, the secret was out. A few weeks earlier, Gordon Cumming begged Albert to let him back into his social circle. The forfeiture of your esteem, he wrote, is the, quote, cruelest blow of all. But despite Gordon Cummings groveling, Albert did not respond. But now that the Tranbycroft affair was public knowledge, Gordon Cumming changed his mind. He wasn't going to make good. He prepared to bring an action for slander against.
Starting point is 00:14:42 the Wilson family and take them to court, claiming 5,000 pounds in damages. The prince's courtiers tried to avoid the embarrassment of having Albert appear in civil court by putting a military court on the case instead, which would deal with the matter privately. The adjunct general initially agreed to adjudicate the case, but then he changed his mind, believing that doing so would be an unfair intrusion on justice. The prince appealed to his brother Arthur, who was the colonel-in-chief of Gordon Cummings Regiment, and he too refused to get involved.
Starting point is 00:15:24 He said, quote, being the prince's brother, it was more than ever incumbent on me not to allow myself to be used in a way that might cause the world to think that coming was being sacrificed to the prince. He thought, probably correctly, that it would fuel conspiratorial thinking and mistrust if the military protected the monarchy from the normal rule of law. Arthur was right. Albert was lambasted in the press for attempting to hamper the court case,
Starting point is 00:15:57 while Gordon Cumming looked like a martyr, being unfairly punished by London's elite. Albert braced himself for the rebuke of his mother, Queen Victoria. and he refused to go see her at Windsor if she planned to scold him about gambling. One of the Queen's friends stepped in and tried to convince her to be gentle with Albert. Victoria seemed sympathetic to her son, who had, quote, been dreadfully attacked and was in a dreadful state, in her words. She told Albert about her dislike of gambling in general terms, but let him off the hook for the most part. Still, Albert seemed distressed about his upcoming court case.
Starting point is 00:16:44 He canceled his spring trip to the south of France. One side of his beard apparently had turned gray from the stress. He discussed the case constantly and sought his friend's advice on what to do, but all of them told him to sit back and let the court proceed. Even the queen acknowledged that although it was a, quote, sad thing that Bertie was dragged into it, The case might be a, quote, shock to society and to gambling that would promote better behavior, she hoped. This silver lining was no solace to Albert. Quote, the whole thing has caused me the most serious annoyance and vexation, he wrote.
Starting point is 00:17:28 Finally, the trial began on June 1, 1891. While the trial was set to start at 11, ticket holders began getting in line, at 930, and the court was already packed to the brim by 1030. The case had become a popular sensation, inspiring not only extensive press coverage, but also several music hall songs and jokes about backing a rat. Get it? The spectators dressed up for the proceedings with women in their most fashionable dresses and bonnets, armed with opera glasses to get a better look. The Palmaul Gazette reported that the, quote, court presented an appearance which, save for the dignity of its own fittings and its rows of learned-looking law books, might have been taken for a
Starting point is 00:18:21 theater at a fashionable matinee. A little before 11, Albert finally entered the courtroom, wearing a black frock coat, and he took a seat in a red Morocco chair right in front. The prince didn't look too stressed as the proceedings began. He smiled and kept his arms crossed throughout the opening statement. The Solicitor General made an opening speech on behalf of Gordon Cumming, and after that he questioned Gordon Cumming on the stand, emphasizing his innocence and that he was unfairly accused to save the rest of the court. The illustrated London News wrote that Gordon Cumming made
Starting point is 00:19:04 an admirable witness, leaning easily on the rail, his gray-gloved left hand resting easily on the bare right, perfectly dressed, his tones equitable, firm, neither over-hurried nor over-deliberate, cool but not too cool, end quote. His performance didn't seem to threaten Albert. One of Albert's courtiers reported that the prince was rather tired after sitting in court for six hours, but seemed confident that his side would prevail, saying the case was going strongly against coming. It was Albert's turn to testify the next day. He didn't seem particularly nervous at first, but one journalist observed him stroking his beard for seven minutes, and another thought he looked, quote, anxious and worn. On the stand, the prince responded quickly in such a hoarse,
Starting point is 00:20:02 low voice that he was hard to hear. He seemed non-committal, changing his position over the course of the 20 minutes he was examined and flushed when he was asked a tough question. After the lawyers finished, a man from the jury asked a question. As banker during the backerat game, did the prince notice Gordon coming cheating? Albert said no. Then the juror asked if he believed the charges against Gordon Cumming at the time, and Albert said yes. Even though journalists and spectators alike were not entirely impressed with Albert's performance, the defendants had bigger problems. Lysette Green, the member of the Wilson family most incensed by Gordon Cummings' conduct,
Starting point is 00:20:50 was a disaster on the stand. According to one report, Green was, quote, deplorable in every way, voice, manner, and matter. As he was cross-examined, Green lost control of his emotions and seemed to barely remember anything about that night. He did not understand the rules of Baccarat, and could hardly explain how Gordon Cumming cheated in the first place. To be frank, I don't understand the rules of Baccarat either, and it seems a little vague to me. But even worse, on Monday, June 8th, the barrister tore the Wilson's case apart. He pointed out that nobody except Stanley Wilson, Arthur Wilson's young son,
Starting point is 00:21:38 saw any foul play except a person who was already expecting to see it. He accused Albert and his courtiers of only pretending to be friends with Gordon coming, discarding him when he threatened the prince's reputation. The barrister said, quote, there's a strong and subtle influence of royalty, a personal influence, which has perplexed the historian with unnightly and dishonoring deeds done by men of character and done by them, to save the interests of a dynasty or to conceal the foibles of a prince. Even though the jury and the tide of public opinion seemed to have turned against the prince, Albert would have to wait until the next day to officially hear the verdict.
Starting point is 00:22:30 After seven days of testimony, June 9, 1891, was the final day of the Tranbycroft trial. Lord Coleridge, the Lord Chief Justice, who often, incidentally, kept a pet ferret under his robes in the courtroom, spent four hours summarizing the case. The press reported that in this speech, Lord Coleridge expressed a heavy bias against Gordon Cumming, so much so that the National Observer can, considered it a, quote, melancholy and flagrant violation of the best traditions of the English bench. After the summary, the jury deliberated. After 13 minutes, they emerged with their verdict.
Starting point is 00:23:14 Gordon Cumming was guilty of cheating, and the Wilson's were off the hook. As the verdict was announced, spectators booed and hissed, mobbing the Wilson family as they left the courtroom. Meanwhile, Gordon Coming emerged as a hero, a martyr. Letters poured in from sympathetic spectators, emphasizing their support of Gordon Cumming and his family. The press and public alike were shocked and incensed at the results of the case. On a month-long trip to Ascot, Prince Albert was booed at many public appearances. Bishops rode into newspapers decrying the prince's lack of accountability,
Starting point is 00:23:57 for his illicit activities. One article in the Review of Reviews interviewed various country gentlemen who asserted that the prince was a, quote, wasteal and whoremonger. As the New York Herald's L.J. Jennings wrote to a courtier, quote, anyone would think that he had broken all the Ten Commandments at once and murdered the Archbishop of Canterbury. And it wasn't just the prince who suffered reputation damage. The Baccarat case reflected badly on the entire royal family. An article in the New York Times wrote, quote, the scandal cannot fail to add to the growing conviction that, quote, royalty, is a burden to the British taxpayer, for which he fails to receive any equivalent. Queen Victoria worried about the effects of the scandal on the rest of the monarchy,
Starting point is 00:24:52 telling her oldest daughter that the, quote, light which has been thrown, on Prince Albert's habits, alarms and shocks people so much, for the example is so bad, the monarchy is almost in danger if he is lowered and despised. Some royal officials suggested that the Queen issue a public apology for Prince Albert's behavior, but the Prime Minister objected to that course of action, arguing that the morals of the prince's private life and reputation were not the government concerns. The prime minister wrote, I confess if I had the advising of him, which I am not likely to have, I should recommend him to sit still and avoid a backerat for six months, and at the end of that time, write a letter to some
Starting point is 00:25:44 indiscreet person who would publish it, saying that at the time of the coming case, there had been a great deal of misunderstanding as to his views, but the search, the search circumstances of that case had so convinced him of the evil that it was liable to be caused by the game, that since that time he had forbidden it to be played in his presence. Such a declaration referring to what he had done would suffice to deodorize him of the unpleasant aroma, which this case has left upon him and his surroundings, but nothing else would be sufficient. End quote. Prince Albert did not follow the Prime Minister's advice.
Starting point is 00:26:26 He did write a private letter to the Archbishop a couple of months later, proclaiming his horror of gambling, but he undercut his repentance by admitting that he thought a measly game of cards or a day at the horse races barely counted as gambling in the first place. He had plenty of ire for the press in the letter, which had been, quote, very severe and cruel because they know I cannot defend myself. Most of all, Albert was angry at Gordon Cumming himself.
Starting point is 00:26:57 He wrote that Gordon Cumming was a damned blackguard, with no sense of wrong or right, who had done his utmost to mix his Albert's name up in the matter in endeavoring to cloak his iniquities. According to Gordon Cummings' daughter, the prince completely ostracized him from his social circle, saying that anyone who spoke to him, would never be asked to Marlboro House again,
Starting point is 00:27:24 also no army or navy officer was to accept invitations to shoot at Gordon Cummings' country estates. Gordon Cumming was dismissed from the Army. He resigned from his social clubs and none of his close friends ever spoke to him again. But not letting the scandal stop him entirely, Gordon Cumming actually got married the day after the verdict
Starting point is 00:27:48 to a woman named Florence Josephine Garvey. Narner, nicknamed Flip. Flip was an orphaned American heiress to a textile fortune, and much to her family's chagrin, she had refused to break off the engagement in the wake of the scandal. Only about six people attended the wedding at Holy Trinity Church. When Gordon Cumming returned to Scotland with his wife, he was greeted with an address from the provost and, quote, great rejoicings. Even though he had lost his social circle, he at least had his wife's annual income of $80,000 a year to live off of.
Starting point is 00:28:28 Despite the public scrutiny, the trial didn't really seem to affect Albert's behavior in the long run. He still gambled, but more discreetly this time. He did give up Baccarat, though, choosing to play Whist instead. That's the story of the Tran Bikroft affair, but stick around to hear about how, Albert's relationship with his mistress, Daisy babbling Brooke, leaked to the press. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like,
Starting point is 00:29:26 and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.
Starting point is 00:30:02 Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network.
Starting point is 00:30:24 It's Will Ferrell. Woo-woo, who, who, who, who. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:30:47 He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.
Starting point is 00:31:13 There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Not long after the backer. rat case died down, Prince Albert was beset with yet another public scandal. Lord and Lady Berenzford, two other aristocrats, had been cast out of Prince Albert's social circle, much to their dismay, while Daisy Brooke, Lady Beresford's sworn enemy, was publicly welcomed at Marlborough House. Humiliated and seeking revenge, and hoping to capitalize on the prince's bad reputation, Lord Beresford wrote a letter to the prince, threatening to go public with the prince's affair with
Starting point is 00:32:00 Daisy Brooke if he didn't accept Lady Beresford back into Marlesborough House. Lord Beresford gave the letter to another friend of Alberts and instructed him to pass it along to the prime minister, warning of grave events in store. The friend refused and tried to convince the Beresford's to back down if he could convince the prince to privately apologize. But it was too late. Another society woman published a pamphlet that detailed the prince's affair with Lady Brooke and their beef with Lord and Lady Beresford.
Starting point is 00:32:36 This pamphlet caused a stir. According to a report from Truth magazine, hostesses who managed to get hold of a copy held readings only to, quote, find their drawing rooms more crowded than if a dozen premedentiful. Donnas were on the Bill of Fair. The Duchess of Manchester hosted one of these readings, and the prince was so incensed that he refused to speak to her for over a decade. The Prime Minister finally stepped in and convinced Lady Brooke to withdraw from court to protect her reputation. He then
Starting point is 00:33:14 drafted letters to try to repair the relationship between Albert and the Beresford's for them both to sign. Lord Beresford admitted that circumstances had occurred, which, quote, led Lady Charles Beresford and her friends to believe it was his Royal Highness's intention publicly to wound her feelings, while the prince signed a document that denied he ever had such an intention. It's incredible how adult men and some of the most powerful people in the country can behave so much like high schoolers. Noble Blood is a production of I-Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky.
Starting point is 00:34:18 Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Courtney Sender, Amy Height, and Julia Milani. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk, with supervising producer Rima Il Kali, and executive producers Aaron Manky, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on. a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there.
Starting point is 00:35:20 Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.

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