Noble Blood - Amelia and Eleanor's Excellent Adventure [from Very Special Episodes]

Episode Date: September 19, 2026

In 1933, Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart ducked out of a White House event and commandeered an airplane. The First Lady and the first lady of aviation flew to Baltimore and back. The event was documented by journalists, and later recounted in books. But there was more to this spontaneous joyride that didn't make the papers.  Listen to Dana Schwartz on Very Special Episodes wherever you get your podcasts.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The electrifying debut novel that is leaving readers' breathless. Available at bookstores everywhere. The food was. was notoriously bad in FDR's White House. After all, it was the Great Depression when his presidency began, and one of First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt's tasks was to economize the kitchen. Suddenly, White House China was being used to serve gelatin salads.

Prune pudding was another common menu item. Eleanor even encouraged the housekeeper to use Milk Orno, a lab-made powder aptly named for its ingredients of dried skim milk and cornmeal. Visitors who had joined the Roosevelt's for a meal sometimes shared a word to the wise. Eat before you arrive. Ernest Hemingway even sent a letter after he dined in the White House, detailing the worst meal of his life. He wrote, We had a rainwater soup followed by rubber squab, a nightlythe, a nice wilted salad and a cake some admirer had sent in,

an enthusiastic but unskilled admirer. Perhaps, while digesting post-meal, it must have clicked for Hemingway why his companion that evening had scarfed down a few sandwiches on the way over. So maybe it was yet another dreary menu that had diners itching to get away from the table on April 20, 1930, 133.

The guests that evening included the First Lady's brother and a couple big shots in the aviation industry, an airline president as well as the soon-to-be leader of government work on aeronautics. FDR himself was out of town, but there was one more influential figure sitting at the table, subjected to rubbery meat and whatever a combination salad is. It was Amelia Earhart. She was as big a celebrity as any in 1933, admired most for her daring solo flight across the Atlantic Ocean the year before. So maybe it was the thrill of sitting next to a world record breaker

that made the others eager to abandon their plates for something more audacious. Whatever the reason, Amelia delivered on giving them the ultimate excuse to leave the table. She was going to take them all on a joy ride. Amelia, Eleanor, and the rest of the party drove to the local airport. They climbed aboard an Eastern Air Transport twin-engine Curtis Condor. It looked how you might imagine an old-timey plane looks, with two wings stacked on top of each other, only big enough to fit a dozen or so people.

These passengers were part of an elite group. In the early 30s, practically no Americans had ever even set foot in a plane. Now, in the air and looking down, they could see the Washington Monument and the White House lit up against the dark sky. It was absolutely magical. They flew to Baltimore and back. Amelia steered the plane. Eleanor was in the control cabin with her, where she said she felt, quote, on top of the world with an unobstructed view.

Another newspaper quoted Mrs. Roosevelt as saying, It does mark an epoch, doesn't it? When a girl in an evening dress and slippers can pilot a plane at night. The two women looked picture perfect still in their dinner party attire. They were wearing long gowns and evening wraps. Eleanor was in a hat. Amelia had white gloves on. This was the pinnacle of glamour and excitement,

a spectacle heightened by the depression the country was facing. It wasn't every day that the First Lady and the First Lady of the Air just hopped in an airplane. This was an adventure for the ages. The event was first documented in the papers and newsreels, and now it's written into books and strewn across the internet. The story is often recounted as an impulsive, spur-of-the-moment decision to sneak away from dinner and take a wild ride. But today's episode isn't about being caught up in the moment.

It's actually about being calculated, because Eleanor and Amelia's flight of fancy may have just been a PR stunt. Welcome to very special episodes, an I-Heart Original podcast. I'm your host, Dana Schwartz, and this is The Joy Ride. Welcome back to very special episodes. I'm Jason English.

Very lucky, as always, to be here with Dana Schwartz and Zarin Burnett. Hey, what's up, guys? Hey, hey. What up, Dana? What up, Jason. This one, I have to say, is very, very special for me. Because in third grade, I don't want to brag. But I did play Eleanor Roosevelt in our school's interactive wax museum.

Hell yeah. So I feel a particular kinship to this episode. So we've got casting already. We don't have to do that. later. You could play all the parts. I'll reprise my role. The so-called night flight that Eleanor and Amelia took, it was so swanky, so spirited.

From the outside looking in, it really seemed to be a joyride, a skylark, a wonderful adventure. Susan Ware studies 20th century U.S. history and women's biography. She knows a lot about Eleanor Roosevelt and a wonderful adventure. Amelia Earhart. They are kind of hard to miss in 20th century American history. They knew it, too.

And standing by the plane's door on that 1933 spring evening, Eleanor and Amelia made it clear to the press that they were embarking on something special. Mrs. Rochrop, won't you go for a ride tonight over Washington? It's really lovely from the air at night.

I'd be very glad to go for a ride over Washington. I like to go. Going as night and seeing the night very much. In this clip, they're already on the tarmac ready to go. But they're talking as if their decision to take the flight is being made right there, right then. A little feigned surprise never heard anyone, right?

But for the record... It can't have been totally spontaneous because you just don't leave the White House and go to an airport and commandeer a plane. Susan's right. Amelia had arranged a plane before they left the White House. Press was notified and gathered to see them take off. There were even journalists on board.

And if we're getting technical about things, Amelia was in control of the plane for part of the flight, but not the whole time. A male pilot took off and landed the plane, probably for legal reasons. That didn't take away from the triumph of this event, but it did mean that it wasn't low-key. But really, almost nothing these women did was low-key.

It really can't be overstated how famous they were. Well, I think this is the first time I've ever been asked to compare Amelia Earhart to Taylor Swift. But there is a way in which both of these women are figures that everybody knows about. And I think it's at that level, the kind of Oprah Winfrey, Taylor Swift, it's up there in the stratosphere. In 1928, Amelia was the first woman to cross the Atlantic in a plane called Friendship. The flight turned her into an overnight celebrity. After it, she needed four secretaries to deal with all the fan mail she received. But Amelia wasn't actually the pilot on the friendship.

She was just a passenger. which she compared to feeling like a, quote, sack of potatoes. So a few years later, in 1932, she made the trip on her own. Four years ago, I was here after the friendship. This time, I tried to justify that flight by going alone. This trek made her the second person ever and the first woman to fly across the Atlantic solo. It took nearly 15 hours, just a year. just her and a single engine.

Not even two engines in case one goes out. We all know that she disappeared on her last flight trying to do around the world flight in 1937. And so in many ways, that's people's image of Amelia Earhart. But I think if that hadn't happened, what we would remember her for is this 1932 flight. It's true. After this solo flight, the public became enamored by her.

People wanted to know everything, even the mundane details of the journeys she took. What did you carry on the trip? You mean to eat? Yeah, to eat and drink. Well, I carried some water, of course, because my cockpit is very warm, and I carried a sandwich in case. I didn't eat it, though. I carried some hot chocolate and the all-reliable tomato juice.

What kind of a sandwich was it? Chicken sandwich. Amelia's fame was reaching new heights, and the Roosevelt's were ascending to new levels of power, too. As the world opened up before these women, they eventually crossed paths. And they really hit it off. They became friends. They were like kindred spirits, and they maintained that, really, for the rest of the 30s, while Amelia Earhart was still alive. she was always connecting with Eleanor Roosevelt.

Eleanor Roosevelt would also mention Amelia Earhart. There was this kind of reciprocity that wasn't false or forced. This friendship carried into the Roosevelt's transition from the New York Governor's Mansion to the White House. Initially, Eleanor was reluctant about taking on the role of First Lady. As she later reflected, quote, I knew what traditionally should lie before me, and I cannot say that I was pleased at the prospect. The turmoil in my heart and mind was rather great. I think she was very concerned that it might clip her wings,

to use a nice aviation metaphor, and that she wouldn't be able to be the free person that she was, and she might get trapped in this role of First Lady. Well, we know that didn't happen, and she, in fact, expanded the role dramatically. Eleanor Roosevelt is swept up in the whirlwind of activity surrounding the first days of Franklin Roosevelt's administration. From the very beginning, Mrs. Roosevelt makes it clear that she intends to be more than a mere ornament on the White House reception line. She is sent on a tour of the country by FDR.

He wants her to serve as his eyes and legs. She seems to be perpetually on the move, writes a weary reporter traveling with her. Please make Eleanor. just for one day. The joy ride with Amelia happened in April, less than two months after Eleanor's arrival at the White House. It was another way of saying, I'm not your traditional first lady.

I'm making my own way. But the flight had a very literal message as well. Aviation was a very young industry in 1933, especially commercial aviation. And so the idea that somebody other than just a World War I pilot or a stunt pilot, that there could be regularly scheduled airlines that you could fly from Washington to New York, these things are all very new at the time. And to many people, they seemed kind of, well, it's just such a weird idea. Both Amelia and Eleanor had a passion for aviation. They really believed flying was the future. Eleanor got a student pilot license at one point,

although FDR nixed the idea before it went very far. And in a women's magazine column, Amelia even suggested all mothers should become pilots so that they be good parents and help their kids when they're flying around all the time, because obviously in the future, that's how we'd be getting around day to day. So it was important to them to get other women involved in this world, as pilots and as passengers.

Eleanor made sure to point out how at ease she was on the night flight with Amelia. She was quoted saying she felt just as safe with a woman in the cockpit as she would have with a man. And that was a big deal. There's a sense of them both being ambassadors for aviation. and they're also ambassadors for opening opportunities for women. And so here is this joyride that combines all of those things. And so it's this kind of combination of seems very spontaneous, but you get a sense that everyone is very aware of the larger symbolism of it.

Remember, it wasn't too long before this that women didn't have the constitutional right to vote, They didn't have many formalized rights in the 30s. There were major concerns about women in aviation, that they were too scatterbrained to use the technology, too emotional to handle possible crises. Male pilots worried about training women because of the potential backlash should a member of the fairer sex die in an accident.

Amelia and Eleanor had a message to share with the country, and they put on quite the show, to do it. They made sure the press was there to jot down their quotes and snap photographs. These women were no strangers to PR. And if a headline-grabbing opportunity didn't arise on its own, they could always create the perfect scenario themselves. The music you love, radio stations, the podcasts everyone's talking about, all in one place, and it's free. I heart radio

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In the years surrounding the night flight Amelia and Eleanor weren't just famous They were a brand new Kind of celebrity So you had actresses in the news here in the 1930s.

And then the other way in which women established themselves in the news was in the social realm. That's why I went into the Women's and Society pages. But you just didn't see many women of activity and accomplishment in the news. This is Maureen Beasley. I'm a professor emerita of the Philip Merrill College of Journalism at the University of Maryland

at College Parish. For years, I've been interested in the careers of women journalists starting way back when. She's studied the ways Eleanor, in particular, got attention from the press. And Eleanor Roosevelt definitely was a media celebrity. She recognized the importance of the media in all of its forms. Eleanor set up these press conferences for women reporters only because she wanted to give them news that men couldn't get. Eleanor had her first press conference just two days after entering the White House.

That was before FDR had his first press conference as president. She didn't know exactly how to handle herself at first. It is said that she walked around with a box of candied fruit and, you know, sort of acted like a hostess. As awkward as that first press conference may have been, it didn't take her long to find her footing. Eleanor had a strong sense for what the country cared about. She held many causes near and dear to her heart,

and she realized these were the kind of stories she could share with women journalists. Within a few weeks, she was ready to show them and the public what she was made of. She invited Amelia to dinner at the White House. It was a way of courting the public through taking part in an event that did make news. Here you had two of the most notable women of the era,

and she took along some of her favorite reporters on this flight over Washington. You have to have a sense of drama if you're going to be in the public eye. The night flight shows us how this virtuous press cycle worked. Women journalists got to come along, they got the byline in the papers the next day, and of course Eleanor got the headlines.

First Lady in night flight. First Lady goes on night air trip. First Lady of land flies with First Lady of the Air. We may take for granted today that the First Lady is a public figure with a platform and press coverage, but that wasn't really the case before Eleanor. Earlier, First Ladies didn't think it was too feminine to court publicity. Certainly Eleanor's predecessor,

Lou Henry Hoover, although extremely educated and accomplished woman, didn't want much press attention, even to the point that when she had a Christmas party at the White House for Girl Scouts, she wouldn't allow the press in, if you can imagine such a thing. So Eleanor came in, and she was quite willing to focus attention on herself. Here you have a first lady for the first time is seeking to be in the news. The night flight wasn't the last of her exploits to captivate the press. There was the time she was driven two miles into a coal mine, showing her support for the workers hit hard during the Depression.

The papers captured how wearing a, quote, borrowed gray overcoat and a miners' cap, Eleanor emerged from the mine to a cheering crowd, 2,500 strong. And her month-long journey to the South Pacific during World War II certainly didn't escape the news cycle either. Eleanor's connection to the press ran deep. In fact, Eleanor did so much press,

she actually thought of herself as part of the press corps. What people don't seem to realize about her is that she actually considered herself a journalist on her income tax returns. And in a way, that makes sense. Because in addition to providing quotes and posing for photo ops, she started covering the adventures she took herself.

During her time in the White House, Eleanor made nearly the same number of radio appearances as her husband, the president. She hosted her own programs. She wrote a number of books and hundreds of articles, including a daily column for many years. It was called My Day, and it was syndicated in 90 newspapers. It had millions of readers. And Amelia Earhart picked up a thing or two from Eleanor's success. She quickly learns to do what Eleanor Roosevelt, I think, had already learned to do, which is to use her celebrity to promote the causes that she cares about.

Historian Susan Ware again. You really have to keep the name out there if you're going to maintain your celebrity. It is this kind of nitty-gritty of the lecture circuit and the grinding-up. out the articles and the appearing on newsreels and all these things. Like Eleanor, Amelia did her own share of stunts to garner attention and intrigue. It wasn't just her record-breaking flights either. There was the time she tried out deep-sea diving or demonstrated a new device to help pilots with parachute jump training.

To sustain her flying and her advocacy, she had to sustain her fame. In her own words, no pay, no fly, and no work, no play. Flying was expensive, and planes just don't pay for themselves, and so she really had to work at bringing in an income. The press coverage that those women and that night flight got, it had financial benefits. Exclusive articles after Amelia's flights could pay big bucks. the New York Times paid $20,000 in 1928 for a story of the friendship flight.

The lecture circuits also paid. And all the attention led to brand deals for Amelia with a car company, Kodak film, an engine company. She also designed and modeled her own line of clothing and luggage. Her designs were advertised in the pages of Vogue and featured in a Macy's window. display decked out with a model of her pilot's cabin. This was the precursor to the celebrity brands we all know today, whether it's Kim Kardashian's skims or Fenty Beauty by Rihanna.

The flight was important in a commercial way to both of these women. Eleanor wasn't raising money for a flight around the world, but Eleanor wanted to use her time in the White House to promote the interests of the Democratic Party. certainly to try to improve of a lot of people who were in such dire straits during the Depression. Eleanor was proud to donate to charity with money that she made herself, through lecture circuits, for example. Or her own radio program, specifically from the show's sponsors. Eleanor gave these sponsor broadcasts, and she got away with it, shall we say, in the public eye, by saying that she was giving the money that she made to charity.

Eleanor could make as much as $3,000 for just one episode. When you account for inflation, that's more than $50,000 today. The average American worker was not earning that much in an entire year. And now I believe we'll pause to listen to a few words from Mr. Grau. Thank you, Mrs. Roosevelt. Friends, the makers of sweetheart soap feel highly privileged to have arranged these visits with Mrs. Roosevelt for you. Be sure to listen regularly, and be sure to make friends with the product that's responsible for all of this, Sweetheart soap. Pure, creamy white, with a delicate fragrance all its own. Sweetheart soap has become one of America's most popular soap. Eleanor's broadcasts had all kinds of sponsors, cold creams, coffee, typewriters, mattresses, way before all your favorite podcasts had ad breaks for Casper mattress.

critics, though, felt like she was commercializing her role in the White House. If you could imagine, today I think we would be somewhat appalled if we had Dr. Biden on a television program say that's sponsored by Toyota. People would say, well, you know, this is totally inappropriate. But Eleanor was playing the long game. Doing PR at this level, achieving fame at this level, requires some serious strategizing. The right image for these women had to be crafted, and in all honesty, their husbands were a huge help with that. Eleanor leveraged her status as the president's wife, and Amelia had G.P. Putnam. I will say that having G.P. Putnam made an enormous difference to Amelia Earhart's career.

GP was Amelia's manager-turned-husband. He was always behind the scenes. pulling levers, forging partnerships, planning speaker events, and enforcing deadlines. He took charge of keeping her in the spotlight. And when she was, he advised her to smile for the cameras. With closed lips, though, to hide the gaps in her teeth. Oh, and no hats. He found her hats to be, quote, a public menace. She was, in some ways, just the perfect heroine.

She was incredibly modern-looking and attractive. She had short, tousled hair. She would fly wearing slacks and a plaid shirt. And with a silk scarf knotted around her neck. And so when she landed, she would come out and she would smile her kind of shy smile. And she's just made for the newsreels. Amelia shot into the spotlight like no female pilot had before. Her media presence in this arena was unrivaled.

Her husband's work was essential to that, but privilege was at play here too. One thing we really need to remember is that Amelia Earhart was not the only female aviator in the time. There were quite a lot, not huge numbers, not as many as men, but there were other independent, spunky women pilots, you know, the kind of women who just won't take no for an answer, who were setting records and doing daring flights and trying to start airlines and all kinds of things. They didn't have a full-time publicist the way she did with her husband. The fact that Amelia was a white woman played a big part in her acclaim. There were talented pilots of color like Bessie Coleman, who passed away a couple years

before Amelia's Atlantic Crossing. She's largely forgotten now, but she certainly deserves to be remembered as an American icon, the first black pilot, man or woman, to acquire an international pilot license. Yet it was Amelia who the world was able to accept as the all-American girl. Eleanor also figured out how to present herself in the public eye. She could bend the rules, she could travel and speak out, as long as she painted herself just the right way, as the good first lady, the patriotic wife.

Because of Franklin's incapacity during polio, Pauley's was willing to accept the fact, oh, this is a wife helping her husband. So it's fine that she wants to take inspection trips around the country and see what's going on and then report to him. She was a beloved figure. But she was always seen as a good woman

who's helping her husband. In the 1930s, the world just wasn't ready for women to abandon traditional values. No, I do not think that Eleanor could have projected herself as she did. Had she not couched what she said very carefully in the vein of a traditional wife and mother. I think that was necessary politically for her ideas to be accepted. In addition to aviation, Eleanor and Amelia both wanted women to be a part of the work. force and to be paid. But just because they had big ideas didn't mean they cast themselves as revolutionaries. She didn't make raging political speeches. And certainly she didn't come out with

flaming statements that women should be themselves and they should forget about the family and that sort of thing. She didn't. There had been the women's suffrage movement, which culminated in 1920 with the passage of the 19th Amendment, and then in the 1960s and 70s, there's the resurgence of what's called second wave feminism. In these intervening years, there isn't a mass movement, but that doesn't mean that feminism dies or goes away. You just have to look for it in different places. It's there, but it's not loud and proud. If Amelia and Eleanor took that approach in the 30s, they wouldn't have made the same impact. I have no problem calling both Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart feminist. I often use a definition

that Eleanor Roosevelt put forth in 1935 that talks about women having equal opportunities with men. The night flight encapsulates this all perfectly. They put on a show of femininity and glamour. They dressed up. in their gloves and their gowns. That was the backdrop for their message about women's ability. It was political, but it was still subtle. It was supposed to feel harmless, not like they were crashing through the glass ceiling.

Their ability to walk that tightrope, to push the envelope but not rock the boat, the only way to pull that off was masterful PR. And the night flight? Well, it may have created a model that saloeslawed, celebrities are still using today. The music you love. I heart radio.

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Always free. Grab the free app. I heart radio. Everywhere you go. Download the free IR Radio app today. Two girlfriends decide it would be fun to take a road trip across America. They start out in the West Coast and drive all the way across the country, making pit stops along the way and really seeing what is not just America, but Americana. These drive-by towns that most people wouldn't necessarily stop in.

And they take us on a journey with them that is just. just unforgettable. They crash a wedding. They play bingo. Bingo was all the rage and they play bingo. They sleep in a teepee. They stop in a hotel that looks like a, almost a caricature of a teepee. That's Kelly Carter Jackson, a professor at Wellesley College.

And this is Leah Wright-Rigour, a historian from Johns Hopkins. They head to a department store where they try on, with the help of local shoppers, they try on beautiful gowns and dresses, they end up buying several things. This might sound like another story about Amelia and Eleanor, but it's not. Of course, we are talking about Oprah Winfrey and her bestie Gail Kings. Two of the most famous black women in America, let alone, you know, like the world. Kelly and Leah are both academics and the co-hosts of You Get a Podcast, the unauthorized study of the Queen of Talk.

As a kid, I was obsessed with Oprah. I watched Oprah all the time. My family members used to tease me because I watched the show so much. Oprah Winfrey is ubiquitous. As a child growing up in the 80s and the 90s, Oprah Winfrey was the culture. She was everywhere. So it wasn't that she was just a part of the culture.

She was actually defining it. It was Can't Miss TV. So why are we talking about Oprah and Gail? Bear with me for a minute here. This cross-country road trip, it actually has a lot in common with the night flight, even though these things happened 70 years apart. The road trip was in 2006.

It aired as an episode of the Oprah Winfrey show. And along the way, They deepen their relationship. They find out more about themselves. They find out the things that annoy themselves about each other. You get to see the different personalities. You get to see how, like, Gail loves to sing along to the music. And Oprah rather ride along in silence.

Like, she doesn't like listening to music. So we're not watching. I mean, we are watching for the shenanigans, but we're also watching for the beautiful friendship between Gail and Oprah. There's this element of friendship and joy and what seems like spontaneity, even though it's a big planned trip with lots of cameras. All of this makes it feel like a modern version of Amelia and Eleanor.

And like the night flight, the stunt had some deeper symbolism. What's more American than being black and pulled over by the police? A key moment in the trip happened when Oprah and Gail and their caravan of camera people and producers were driving in Kentucky. When one car got stopped by the police, the whole group pulled over to wait, which was something the officer wasn't expecting. The highway patrolman is like, get off my highway! You know, like he's like yelling at them and confused that he's pulled over one car and now all these other cars are stopping. Get off of my highway.

We're with the Oprah show doing a shoot. And when Oprah gets out the car and pulls that sort of Oprah car, like, hello, I'm Oprah. Winfrey. He realizes like, oh shit. This is Oprah Winfrey. We're doing a TV shoot. My name is Buddy Care. You know, like, oh, like, I have not just pulled over anyone. I mean, I've got Oprah Winfrey and 35 cameras. This is not what happens every day, folks. At that point, it becomes a big joke. Oprah and Gail even start teasing the officer.

I know you went, what are you saying? And so we're looking at that moment and being like, oh, she's trying to invert this idea of, like, what it means to be black and be pulled over in the middle of nowhere on a road trip. Like, this is a black person's worst nightmare, right? To be pulled over in the middle of rural Southern America and have a police officer essentially question, like, what are you doing? You don't know.

Like, you could be breathing wrong. And here, Oprah and Gail being like, actually, the power dynamic is inverted because I'm a black billionaire. Yeah. Ha, ha, jokes on you. And the camera's rolling. As much as they make the situation seem carefree, the potential danger of their position doesn't go totally unremarked upon.

After Gail tells the officer they're doing a TV shoot, the episode cuts to Gail in a studio interview. Shoot was wrong word to you. It's up a way. It's all the laugh track. But it also feels like a really safe way to introduce white audience. to like black people's reality, right? It's not a George Floyd moment,

which is so shocking as to perhaps turn people off, right, to see a man murdered by the police on camera, right, in excruciating ways. No, this is, wow, even Oprah Winfrey gets pulled over, right? But, but, but it's contained, it's safe, right? So it feels like almost like it is a safe space for white people to understand what it means to be a black woman driving in mobility around the country. Oprah has smashed through the glass ceiling and so many other barriers.

But Oprah didn't build her empire by being an activist. She's a brilliant marketer, a brilliant entertainer. It's the stunt, the show they put on that makes this memorable. Oprah and Gail are engaging with political and social issues on a highly rated TV show, not from a political podium. She is centering Black Women's Joy on a platform, a huge platform, one of the biggest in the United States, and saying, look, black women being joyful.

Now what? People tell us all the time. What episode do you remember? I remember the girls' trip. It's not some huge act of resistance. And I think part of the attitude that Oprah and Gale had, which is actually interesting in this day and age where it feels like you have to do in your face pronouncements about race. Oprah and Gere like,

we're black women. That's it. Like, there you go. But part of what we are doing is a project in normalizing. Yes, that's the word I was going to say, normalizing. Right?

Normalizing black women, joy, and existing. Their very existence, their very presence, is radical. And so it's the same thing with Eleanor and with Amelia, it's like a woman flying a plane. You don't have to speak. It speaks volumes. The night flight was a PR stunt.

Nobody would know about the joyride if it wasn't for the women's incredible relationship with the press. But it also wasn't fake or disingenuous. These women genuinely supported the cause and they genuinely seemed to enjoy themselves in the cockpit. Decades before talk shows and reality, TV and social media, Eleanor Roosevelt and Amelia Earhart

gave us a model for sending a message. I love this. It was high-powered baddies, right? 1930 baddies. 1930s was not a hot time for women. Oh, no. It really wasn't. We just got the vote.

And so for her and Amelia Earhart to kind of come out and be like America's most wanted, like, like let's go. Like in a lot of ways, they're like paving the for a kind of Gay-Al Oprah-type thing. And I don't think that's an exaggeration. Like, I can see people be like, oh, that's a stretch, that's a stretch.

But it's not, right? It's like the First Lady of the United States and the most celebrated and famous woman of the era, right, Amelia Earhart, basically saying, no, no, no, like we're shunning the conventions and the rules of the era and we're going to be part of my French, these bad bitches who go around and, like, make decisions and influence politics and have our own fashion line and we're raking in dough. These are women that could really push boundaries, but they didn't have to be outlandish to do it.

She doesn't have to say anything else. Yeah, same with Amelia flying. She doesn't have to do anything else. All she has to do is fly the plane and land it. And that's boom, enough said. Obviously, no surprise, these women were incredibly famous and influential. Everybody knows that. Their posters are in every elementary school.

But their fame was very modern. and Eleanor is basically a podcast host. Amelia's doing brand deals. Sweetheart soap. Oh, yeah. Yes. I really enjoyed getting that insider take. I had never heard the story or heard of it before.

This was all new to me, and I absolutely loved it because the whole image of Amelia Earhart and Eleanor Roosevelt and glamorous evening gowns, white gloves, is so against what I think of them. And yet, it's so perfectly fit them. I was like, wow, look at that. The range of people. And also, obviously, them just taking to the night sky is such an iconic image. I felt the same way.

I had actually never heard this story before this episode. It felt like a Marvel mashup that I just didn't know happened. Oh, my God, of course those women had met. Yes, exactly. I kind of knew they were friends, but I didn't know what good friends they were and how they helped each other and bolstered each other. And I love that Eleanor has her own media persuasion campaign

that's like PR stunts, which goes along with FDR's fireside chest. They're both like shaping the nation through media. I loved that. Okay. Who are we going to cast? We have two strong female characters here. Okay. So Eleanor Roosevelt, I went with a young Olivia Coleman.

I thought she could nail it. Oh, yeah. You like that, right? And then for Amelia Earhart, Julia Garner, the curly-headed blonde from Ozark. Oh, she's great. If you were familiar with Ozark? Yes. Yeah, right?

And then I thought she'd be good. And if not her, then a young Gina Davis. And then for GP Putnam, the husband, I thought, I wanted a decent guy. So I don't know why. John C. Riley just to me screams decent. I just expect him. Like, oh, yeah. He looks like you could have money and be like, I love my wife.

So. I would see that film. That's great casting. I love Olivia Coleman. I feel like if anyone's listening, let's just get her in any movie where she gets to play a first lady. Yeah, right?

Also, I forgot FDR. I don't know why, but I thought Sam Rockwell as horny FDR. That would be really funny. So there you go. Who's your very special character? Hmm. Jason, you got one?

I think Eleanor Roosevelt plays nine different characters in this, but especially her as the podcaster getting $3,000 an episode or the equivalent of about 50,000 today. That's the dream. I think we should hold that up and try to return to that standard. She's our podcast inspiration.

I'm also going to say the terrible White House chef. Kudos to you for doing a bad job. Oh, yes. Brilliant. Great call. I mean, I love her. She was my first hero. So Amelia Earhart, I just got out of respect for her.

She's my very special character because I love her. Very special episodes is made by some very special people. This show is hosted by Dana Schwartz, Zarin Burnett, and Jason English. Today's episode was written by Dylan Hoyer. Our producer is Josh Fisher. Our story editor is Marissa Brown. Editing and sound design by Chris Childs. Mixing and mastering by Behed Fraser. Original music by Elise McCoy. Research and fact checking by Dylan Hoyer and Austin Thompson. Show logo by Lucy Kintanilla. Our executive producer is Jason English. If you'd like to email the show, you can reach us at very special episodes at gmail.com. Very special episodes is a production

of I-Heart Podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human.