Noble Blood - Lady Mary Wroth's Urania

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Lady Mary Wroth is often considered the first female writer in England to publish a work of prose under her own name. But her romance, The Countess of Montgomery's Urania, would lead to scandal for more reasons than just a female author... Support Noble Blood: — Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon — Merch! — Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story' and pre-order its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story'See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot.

But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, The cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of IHeart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised.

Hey, this is Dana Schwartz, the host of Noble Blood. If you want to support the show, we have a Patreon in the episode description where I publish episode scripts, do a monthly bonus episode and have access to a ton of exclusive merch, like a monthly sticker club. There is merch for sale, the only actual, I know there's some like weird bootleg merch out on the internet, but the actual merch is at a website called dFtba.com. The link is also in the episode description, makes a great holiday gift. And I hate asking for anything, but I wrote a book that's coming out in February. It's a sequel to my novel, Anatomy, a Love Story, This one is called Immortality, a Love Story. There are cameos from several characters that I've talked about on this podcast.

And if you like Noble Blood, I really think you're going to like it. And so if you're interested, pre-orders would be incredibly helpful. That link also in the episode description. But the real support is just listening. And so thank you so much. 32 miles southeast of London stands one of the best surviving examples of medieval English archival. Pennsylvania. Penshurst Palace.

Today, part of the house and its gardens are open to the public. Anyone can go visit the 14th century home that was built for the then-Lord Mayor of London, which then later became part of the Crown's estate. Henry VIII would use the home as his hunting estate, evidently hunting both game and wives. Anne Boleyn's childhood home, Hever Castle, was just a few miles away. Even if you don't get the opportunity to visit Pencehurst in person, there's a good chance that if you're a connoisseur of historical costume dramas, the estate will pop up somewhere on your screen. Films like Anne of A Thousand Days, the other Bolein Girl, even the Princess Bride, along with BBC dramas like Elizabeth R. and Wolf Hall, all feature scenes filmed at Pencehurst. But for all of the screen time Hollywood has given Pencers, they're still yet to adapt a story

actually centered on the family that once was based there, the Sidney's. In 1552, Henry VIII's son, King Edward, would grant Penters to his courtier, Sir William Sidney. William had three grandchildren, Philip Sidney, the famous poet and Elizabethan courtier, Robert Sidney, a statesman and patron of the arts, and Mary Sidney, a poet and patron herself. Thanks to them, Penzhurst became something of a literary hotspot. The poem to Penzhurst by Ben Johnson goes so far as to compare it to a meeting place of the muses in Greek mythology, so it's no surprise that Robert Sidney's own daughter, also named Mary, would gain literary aspirations growing up in such a place.

In fact, young Mary, who would grow up into a woman named Lady Mary Roth, would come to be known as England's first female novelist. Her prose romance, the Countess of Montgomery's Urania, was praised by fellow writers, but not seen as favorably by the members of Queen Anne's court, who thought Mary's characters suspiciously resembled some of their own. As we'll come to see, the story of Lady Mary Roth and her literary career is perhaps the best real-life representation of the idea put forth by Virginia Woolf in

a room of one's own, that any woman, even a noble one, who put her name on her writing, would, quote, risk being thought a monster. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is Noble Blood. On October 18, 1587, Mary Roth was born, Mary's Sydney, the eldest daughter of Sir Robert Sydney and his wife, the heiress Lady Barbara Gamage. The late 1580s was a time of radical change within the Sydney family. Just two years before Mary was born, her father was elected to his first political post as a member of Parliament. That was the same year he and his brother Philip would go to the Netherlands

to fight a battle against Spain, but only the former would return alive. Upon his brother's death, Robert Sidney inherited Penzhurst, which would then become Mary's childhood home. To better understand Mary's future work, it makes sense to spend a bit of time thinking about her uncle and his legacy. Remember, her father was one of three, literary siblings. There was Philip, Robert, and Mary. Philip died at age 31, leaving behind a prolific body of work that had yet to be published. Writing was not his primary focus in his lifetime, but his talent was undeniable. C.S. Lewis once called him, quote, without equal before Shakespeare, a reputation that has stuck to this day. If you're going to be in

second place to anyone, Shakespeare isn't the worst person to be behind. Robert's most famous works include his sequence of a hundred-nate sonnets, Astrophil and Stella, and the pastoral romance, Arcadia. Arcadia would come to be known as the Countess of Pembroke's Arcadia, after his sister, Mary, Countess of Pembroke, our Mary's aunt. Not only is the work dedicated to her, but it was she, Countess Mary, who was the one to take on the responsibility of editing and publishing Arcadia after Philip's death. The style and substance of Arcadia would go on to influence a number of writers, namely Shakespeare himself, and one Lady Mary Roth. But before we get there, let's speak some more about the young Mary. Only a year after she was born, Robert, her father, would also inherit

Philip's Post as governor to the town of Flushing in the Netherlands, which meant he spent most of his time abroad while his family remained in England. When Mary wasn't at Penshurst, much of her childhood was spent at the London castle of her aunt, the Countess Mary. Countess Mary had also turned her home into a literary gathering place, and it can be assumed young Mary had access to an extensive collection of classics, humanist works, and the yet to be published, Philip Sidney works. The Countess's literary work went far beyond the editing and publishing of Arcadia. She translated multiple works from French to English and published Psalms, a joint project she began working on with Philip before his death.

The final collection included 43 of his revised Psalms and 107 of her own. Notably, she used her own name on all these works, a rare occurrence for the age. As you could predict, the Countess would also be a major influence on Mary's future writing. Splitting her time between the Countess's home and Penzhurst, it was almost a given that Mary would receive a literary education. Her education was likely the responsibility of tutors and her mother, championed by her father abroad. much of our knowledge of Mary's childhood comes from exchanges between her father and her advisor in which Robert asks for frequent updates about his daughter's education

she was quote very forward in her learning writing and other exercises she has put to as dancing and the virginals end quote the advisor replied while it was not uncommon for a girl of noble birth to receive an informal education it was still not yet a universal practice, and Robert's particular emphasis on his daughter's reading and writing

was a reflection of their family values. As much as the Sydney family was involved in the literary world, they were equally involved in court life. One of the earliest anecdotes we have from Mary's court life is her performing a dance for Queen Elizabeth on a royal visit to Penzhurst, and again a dance in court in 1602. Manuscripts preserved at Pencehurst tell us the teenaged Mary was, quote, much commended by her majesty.

In 1603, following King James's ascension to the throne, Mary's father returned to England. He was named Baron Sidney of Pencehurst and appointed Chamberlain to the Queen Consort, Anne of Denmark, further cementing the Sydney family's place in court. The following year, King James married the 17-year-old Mary to Sir Robert Roth, the son of a wealthy Essex landowner. Promising, as the marriage might have seemed on paper, it was truly a match made in hell. Despite marrying into the Sydney family, Robert Roth had little to no interest in literature. As the Poetry Foundation points out, quote,

During his entire career, only one book was dedicated to him, a treatise on mad dogs, end quote. He preferred to spend his time hunting, which didn't win him any favors with his wife, but gained him quite a bit of favor with King James, who knighted him in 1603. Ben Johnson, friend of the Sidney's and the famous prominent poet and playwright,

who was quoted earlier for his love of Pencers, once noted, quote, My Lady Roth is unworthily married on a jealous husband, end quote. Even more harshly, a servant of Mary's once described her husband as, quote, the foulest churl in the world, end quote.

He was most likely guilty of philandering, gambling, and excess drinking. However, her husband's favorable relationship with King James meant that, Mary's place in court was further secured. She was welcomed into Queen Anne's inner circle and became a staple in court masks, a form of music and dance performance that was highly popular in 16th century Europe. The first mask she performed in in 1605 was written by Ben Johnson himself, and the subject matter is incredibly upsetting, but also perhaps unsurprising for English nobility.

titled The Mask of Blackness, Mary performed alongside Queen Anne and ten other friends as they donned blackface to play, quote, black Ethiopian nymphs called The Twelve Daughters of Nigeria. The Mask was so successful that it inspired numerous other performances, including a sequel, The Mask of Beauty, in which Anne and Mary reprised their role. roles. While generally received positively at the time, some reviews negatively considered the women's performances as Ethiopian nymphs, quote, unconvincing. You don't say. Though her life was entwined with life at court, Mary's literary career was simultaneously starting to begin. We know from our earliest reference to her work that her writing must have begun.

circulating before 1613. During the time of her marriage, we have documented praise of her writing from prominent figures in the literary scene, such as William Drummond, George Wither, and numerous others. But it wasn't until her husband's death that Mary's career really began to take shape. In 1614, Mary gave birth to a son, James. Only a month later, her husband Robert died of gangrene. Because it wasn't enough to be terrible in his lifetime, Robert left behind a pile of debt, 23,000 pounds that was now Mary's responsibility. On top of that, young baby James tragically died two years later, and the death of the heir meant that Mary lost the Roth estate. It went to whoever the next heir was. It's unclear how Mary dealt with the debt.

The Sidneys, despite their status, were not actually particularly monetarily wealthy. One of the first major disputes in the marriage was over Mary's father's failure to pay the proper dowry. But we do know that Mary eventually was able to turn her focus toward new work and new love. Going forward, I'd like to tell the story of Mary's life through her most famous, or depending on who you ask, infamous work, The Countess of Montgomery's Urania. Published in 1621, it's unknown when exactly Mary began writing the prose romance, but it could have been as early as 1615.

It was also around that time that Mary withdrew from court life. Whether it was of her own accord or a forced exile, we don't know for sure. Maybe it was a consequence of her husband's debt somehow. But either way, Urania's title page is a perfect bridging of Mary's past and Mary's present. Underneath the word title, we get this mouthful of a byline. Let me take a deep breath. Written by the right to honorable the Lady Mary Roth,

daughter to the right noble Robert Earl of Lester, and niece to the ever-famous and renowned Sir Philip Sidney Knight, and to the most excellent Lady Mary, Countess of Pembroke, late deceased. Countess Mary died the same year as Urania's publication. Perhaps notably, there is no mention of her late husband. Roth's name may have changed, she would always be a Sydney. It's once again worth noting that it was extremely uncommon for a woman to put her own name on her work, which makes the nod to Countess Mary in the byline more touching, as if she carved a path for her name.

niece to be able to do it herself. To add the names of the prominent men and writers in her family may have been a move to legitimize her work, but it wasn't something the Countess ever did in her own published work. So the nod to Robert, who encouraged her education, Countess Mary, who showed her niece what her own future could be, and Philip, whose style was the foundation for Urania, can also be read just as a show of respect to her family above all else. In regards to that style, the academic Rysa Bear, introducing a digital collection of Roth's works, argues that Philip's inspiration on Roth's writing can be seen in its form as, quote, a long and rambling prose romance interspersed with poems.

That's the style Philip could be credited with bringing back into fashion, and one that his niece Mary further innovated. The titular Countess herself also had connections to the Sidneys. She was Susan DeVere, Countess of Montgomery, Mary's close friend and wife, to Countess Mary's youngest son, making her Mary Roth's cousin-in-law. Countess Mary's oldest son is also going to be important here. He was William Herbert, the third Earl of Pembroke. a politician, poet, and once Chancellor of Oxford.

If you recognize the name Pembroke College, he's that guy. He will play an important role in Urania, but probably not one you're expecting. And more on that later. Anyway, as the professor Naomi J. Miller points out in her article, Not much to be marked, narrative of the woman's part in Lady Mary Roth's Urania, Mary honoring her friend in the title of her work, is an early signifier to readers that Urania will differentiate itself

from the prose romance that was being written by men, in the ways in which it will honor female friendship, and in the level of personhood it gives female characters. So now into the story itself. There are hundreds of characters in the prose piece, but they all loosely revolve around the tale of two lovers, Pamphelia and Amphylanthus. Pamphelia is a queen of an island kingdom of the same name, while Amphalanthus is the emperor of Romans and, notably, her first cousin.

Can you guess where this is going? The name Pamphelia, like many of the names and characters in this story, is of Greek origin and means all loving. Amphalanthus, on the other hand, means lover of two. The conflict keeping these lovers apart is in their names. Pamphelia is a constant character, while Amphalanthus is inconsistent. The lovers cannot be together because Amphalanthus is constantly pursuing other women, begging Pamphelia to take him back each time. It is an obstacle that is purely an interpersonal conflict.

There are no warring families keeping them apart, no meddling mythological forces, no comedy of errors. That alone would be a fresh take on the genre, but added to it is Roth's assertion that Amphalitis is not morally worthy of Pamphelia. The morality by which she defines Pamphelia is non-traditional. While she takes measures to inform the audience of Pamphelia's femininity, her, quote, virtues, are not the ones regularly.

associated with women in romances, chastity, purity, etc. Instead, Pamphelia is defined by her loyalty to her loved ones, putting forth a virtue that should be prioritized by both genders. The women in Pamphelia's life also play an important role in her narrative. When she falls into a depression due to her beloved's infidelity, she seeks the advice of her friends as to how to deal with this conflict. Again, a novel subject to give importance to in fiction at this time. Pamphelia, as you have likely figured out, is a representation of Mary herself. She is a strong queen, whose autonomy is supported by her father and uncle. Amphalanthus, her lover, represents her cousin, William Herbert. In Urania, Pamphelia expresses her love of Amphalanthus by writing him love poems. In reality,

Mary wrote a play entitled Love's Victory, given to William, along with a cipher that, when solved, spelled their fictional counterpart's names. She really was the Taylor Swift of her time. Because he was her cousin, the Countess Mary's son, Mary Roth knew William well growing up. His brother, Philip, even lived with her in the Sydney's for some time, with William visiting most days of the week. It's unknown if their affair started before, during, or after their respective marriages. William got married only a few months after Mary. It's easy to guess why Mary was drawn to William. Her own husband had no interest in literary pursuits,

whereas William was someone she trusted to keep her intellectually engaged. On top of that, he was known as being particularly handsome. We do know that at some point after the death of her husband, Mary and William had at least two illegitimate children, a daughter, Catherine, and son, William. Information confirmed by one of the elder William's cousins. In the continuation of Urania that was published after Mary's death, she introduced a new character, a knight called Fair Design, who does not have a proper name due to his status as an illegitimate. child. One the text heavily hints belongs to Pamphelia and Amphalanthus. So how does the story end? Spoiler alert to anyone who is going straight from this podcast to read Urania, Pamphelia and Amphalanthus, much like Roth and Herbert, do not end up together. Despite a prolific career as a nobleman, courtier, and founder of an incredibly famous college, the longest section of William,

William's Wikipedia is entitled, quote, arranged marriages and mistresses. In one of his own poems reads the line, quote, Can you suspect a change in me and value your own constancy? End quote. Catherine and William were not his only illegitimate children. Before his first marriage, he had an affair with a woman named Mary Fitton. Fitton was a maid of honor to Queen Elizabeth and is thought to be the mysterious, dark lady, who is the subject of a series of Shakespeare sonnets. William admitted

he was her child's father, but refused to marry her and was thus sent to fleet prison for a brief period in 1601, likely by the hand of Elizabeth herself due to causing scandal with one of her maids of honor. He and Fitton were barred from Elizabethan court, but luckily for William, around this time the Elizabethan era was coming to an end. End. Many contemporaries believed William to be a favorite of Queen Anne and that it was through her influence that he gained the position of Lord Chamberlain to King James, Queen Anne's husband, in 1615. Not so coincidentally, this was the time Roth began to withdraw from court life, or more likely, fell out a favor with Queen Anne. Again, not so coincidentally,

A similar story plays out in Urania. There are references throughout to a jealous queen who will go so far as to exile weaker rivals from court in order to keep her lover to herself. This might have been enough to cause outrage, but compared to some other allusions in Urania, the characterization of the queen was too vague to draw a straight line to Anne. With her other characters, though,

Mary did not pull her punches in imitating real-life court scandals. The one that caused the biggest stir was in reference to the marriage of Honoradeni and James Hay. In Urania, Roth describes a scene in which Sorrelius, or Hay, has to step in to save his wife's life from her father's violent rage after she's accused of adultery. Edward Denny, the father in question, was infuriated. Denny expressed his rage through, How else, poetry? He wrote a scathing and offensive poem about Roth,

addressed to Pamphelia from the father-in-law of Sorrelius. It begins, quote, Hermaphrodite in show, indeed a monster. As by thy words and works, all men may. Conster, thy wrathful spirit conceived an idle book, brought forth a fool which like the dam doth look. As Mary Ellen Lamb points out in her book, Gender and Authorship in the Sydney Circle, Denny's critique is heavily gendered. In calling Roth a hermaphrodite, he attempts to punish her her for the ways she's transgressed gender boundaries. The Dame, he refers to as, is a work

for a domesticated female animal, saying she's subhuman, but she's still female. Roth replied almost immediately with a poem of her own, its rhymes matching Denny's word for word. Hermaphrodite incense in art a monster, as by your railing rhymes the world may conster, your spiteful words against a harmless book, shows that an ass, much like the sire doth look. Denny, not being a real poet himself, sort of set himself up for this kind of besting, and it shows a truly astonishing level of hubris. It kind of reminds me of men on Twitter who think they might be able to win a set against Serena Williams.

Unfortunately, talent means almost nothing when you're a woman in a man's world. Denny's response assured that Urania would be a scandal, leaving Mary, in a treacherous situation. In a letter between two members of court, they gossip, quote, In her book of Urania, she doth papply and grossly play upon him and his late daughter, Lady Hayes, besides many others she makes bold with, and they say takes great liberty, or rather license, to introduce whom she please and thinks she dances in a net. Mary's course of action was to deny her connection to the book's publication. She wrote to a personal friend and a favorite of King James, the Duke of Buckingham,

arguing it was only meant to be shared among friends, and she volunteered to stop the sale of it. Based on the detail of the title page and Mary's annotations in her copies, we can assume she was lying. The court fuss did, however, mean that Urania was never reprinted, and Mary would forever be considered a pariah. After that, we know Mary began to work on the second part of Urania, and her play Love's Victory, the one she gifted to William.

Speaking of William, we do not know exactly when he ended the affair with Mary, but we know her characterization of him as Amphalanthus, the Philanderer, was an accurate one. The latter part of Mary's life was sadly devoted to paying off the debt left behind by her late husband. Though her father could not aid financially, he did refuse requests from the Secretary of State to pressure Mary into paying, assuring him that Mary was capable of handling her affairs. It's likely that Mary died between 1651 and 1653, and sadly, no literary work survive from the last 30 years of her life. Still, despite the scandal, no one could take away Mary's status as the country's first female novelist. It would be over 40 years before the next English woman published fiction

under her own name. She was Margaret Havondish, Duchess of Newcastle, and in the preface to her 1664 work, sociable letters, she cheekily quoted the final couplet from Denny's poem to her. to Mary, in which he argues that wise and worthy women don't write fiction. Work go the works leave idle books alone, for wise and worthier women have written none. That's the story of Lady Mary Roth, but stick around after a brief sponsor break to hear a little bit more about her literary legacy. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodeham. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and The

Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, who, who, who, who, who. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up?

everyone, I'm Ago Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I would worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Yeah. Listen to Thanks Dad on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. While Urania drew largely ire from contemporaries, it had one supporter in Ben Johnson. Not only did Johnson believe that Pencehurst enhanced his literary mind, but Mary herself. In a sonnet to the noble lady, the Lady Mary Roth, Johnson argues that Mary's work made him not only a better poet, but a better lover. If William could not learn from Amphalanthus's flaws, perhaps Johnson did. I that have been a lover and could show it, though not in these in rhythms not wholly dumb,

since I ascribe your sonnets and become a better lover and much better poet. It's a lesson every lover today can learn, loyalty and constancy above all. Don't be an Amphalanthus. Noble Blood is a production of IHeart Radio and Grimmin-Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz. Additional writing and researching done by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. The show is produced by Rima Il Kiali, with supervising producer Josh Thane and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from IHeart Radio, visit

the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just hang in there yeah it would not be right it wouldn't be that there's a lot of luck listen to thanks dad on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts

this is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human