Noble Blood - The 500-Year Medici Mystery

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

Lorenzino de Medici killed his cousin, the Duke of Florence, 11 years ago. Still, he's constantly looking over his shoulder, worried that justice might come at any moment. Turns out, he was right: Lor...enzino was finally assassinated. But the culprit behind the revenge-killing would only be revealed almost 500 years later.  Support Noble Blood: — Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon — Noble Blood merch — Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story' and its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story'See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot.
Starting point is 00:00:15 But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, The cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.
Starting point is 00:00:36 Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of IHeart Radio and grim and mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. Before we start, just a quick announcement, next summer, I will be leading a trip to the English Cotswolds to walk to write and to talk about my favorite book, truly, I think my favorite book, The Remains of the Day by Kazua Ishiguru. If you haven't read The Remains of the Day, even if you're not interested in this trip at all, go read it immediately. It will change your life. It's also a great movie, but the book is extraordinary.
Starting point is 00:01:20 And next July, with an amazing program called Common Ground, I will be leading, they call it a pilgrimage, but what that basically means is we all stay together in a beautiful old mansion in the Cotswaltz. We meet every morning. We talk about the book. We talk about our own writing. And we go on long walks thinking about important questions that the book raises. This is the third trip that I've done with this program. It's just an incredible experience. And so if this interests you at all, there's a link in my Instagram bio. You should absolutely sign up. I think there's still a few spots left. Go check it out. I'm so excited to do that. So I just wanted to let Noble Blood listeners know because it seems like it might be up your alley. It was a crisp morning in February 1548 when a pale nobleman in his early 30s stepped out of a church in Venice. Lorenzino de Medici was originally from Florence, a member of the vastly powerful Medici family. But he wasn't a stranger to the Venetian streets. He'd been living in exile in Venice for years, because back in Florence, Lorenzino was a wanted murder. As he strolled through the bustle of the city with his uncle, Lorenzino repeatedly glanced over his shoulder, and his eyes flicked to the sudden movements of passing merchants and poppers. Despite his uncle's assurances that they were safe out in public, Lorenzino's habit was hard to break.
Starting point is 00:02:56 He was always wondering if retribution was coming for the weighty crime he had committed 11 years. earlier. After all, his infamous murder had rattled the highest houses of European power. Lorenzino had personally murdered his own cousin, the first Duke of Florence, Alessandra de Medici. Laurenzino had claimed that he had rid the realm of a tyrant, but regardless of his possible intentions, this podcast has taught us anything. it's that you can't avoid the consequences of such a brazen act forever, and fate usually finds a way of catching up with you. Sure enough, on the morning of February 26, 1548, Lorenzino's punishment finally found him, more than a decade after his crime. He and his uncle were almost at the San Tomah Bridge, mere minutes from Lorenzino's home, when two assassins.
Starting point is 00:04:05 Ambulished them. Lorenzino was instantly incapacitated by a fierce blow to the head, and then he was stabbed several more times to ensure his imminent death. Lorenzino's uncle and the attackers fled, as Lorenzino lay bruised and bloodied. He didn't take his final breath for another half an hour, but he couldn't speak, not even as his own mother rushed out to his side.
Starting point is 00:04:34 It's likely that the blunt force of his mortal injuries impeded much clarity of thought or reflection. But if any synapses were still firing, they certainly would have had no shortage of questions regarding how exactly the assassination had been carried out and why this brutal payback took so long to arrive. Lorenzino would never know who had actually been behind his own violent assassination, and for centuries, neither did anyone else. But today, the question of who was behind Lorenzino's murder is a mystery no more. It took almost half a millennium, but that cold case was finally cracked. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is a story. noble blood. The ripple effects of this tale of murder and betrayal are immensely complicated and
Starting point is 00:05:42 far-reaching, but the simplest place to start is with one key relationship, that between our murderer-turned-mur-turned-mur-victum Lorenzino de Medici and the cousin he had killed, Duke Alessandro DiMedici. And our story of their relationship begins with a cheeky night out. On the evening of January 6, 1537, 23-year-old Lorenzino came to his powerful 26-year-old cousin with an enticing pitch, a secret night of pleasure with a beautiful woman. If Alessandro could leave his royal escort, sneak out of his apartment in the Palazzo Medici, and slip into Lorzano, Lorenzino's bedchamber, Lorenzino would bring the alluring Caterina Solderini to join him. The careful secrecy was necessary to limit gossip, especially since Catarina was married, and also
Starting point is 00:06:44 incidentally, Lorenzino's aunt. As instructed, Alessandra went out that evening with friends, and then he excused himself upon returning to Piazza de San Marco. Slowly, the Duke approached the wing of the Medici complex, where Lorenzino resided. Lorenzino de Medici had little in common with his namesake, the earlier Medician patriarch Lorenzo the Magnificent, or with Lorenzino's many other ancestors of the same name who'd brought wealth and distinction to the family. No, for as long as Alessandro had known his short, pallid, and introverted relative, Lorenzino or Little Lorenzo was a fitting nickname. Since childhood, Lorenzino was known more for his studious nature than any commanding bearing and was far
Starting point is 00:07:41 likelyer to be found immersed in a book or theater production than trying to climb the ranks of power. Back at Lorenzino's palace, Alessandro slipped inside with quiet ease. Instead of wearing the chainmail-lined doublet he typically favored as protection against any possible sneak attacks, he was decked out that night in a Neapolitan silk cloak. Judging by those nocturnal fashion choices alone, his desire for comfort and style clearly outweighed any cautious instincts he might have had. And understandably so. This had all the markings of another one of his trusted cousins,
Starting point is 00:08:26 delightfully mischievous schemes. Through their early adult years, Lorenzino and Alessandro had formed a bond that sparked numerous escapades. Lorenzino had not only become a close advisor to his cousin on political matters, he also facilitated Alessandro's womanizing so frequently that a few at court snidly referred to him as the Duke's hymn. Long a passionate writer, Lorenzino even penned. a whole irreverent comedy play for Alessandro's marriage to a young bride from the prominent Hapsburg family. So when Alessandro entered Lorenzino's bedroom that night, it's unlikely he was in a suspicious frame of mind at all. Lorenzino suggested that his cousin stow his weapons under the bed to set the right romantic tone. Alessandro acquiesced. Lorenzino had also told him
Starting point is 00:09:24 to make himself comfortable while he went to fetch the beautiful Catarina. As Alessandro waited on his cousin's bed, it's possible that he mulled over all of the red flags cropping up in his path. After all, his cousin occasionally seemed to show a slightly darker side. The serious melancholy demeanor Lorenzino exhibited as a boy unnerved some people. And there was the bizarre story about how Lorenzino had decapitated the heads of several ancient sculptures and statues in Rome. The defilement was egregious enough to get Lorenzino expelled from the city by the Pope, even though the Pope was a close Medici relative. On the other hand, Lorenzino's childhood seriousness and strangeness was not necessarily surprising,
Starting point is 00:10:21 given that he had lost his father at a young age, and his statue shenanigans could have easily been brushed off as an ill-advised prank, rather than the sign of some unhinged leaning. But it's probably unlikely that Alessandro was seriously worried about any risk. Apocryphly, while waiting on Lorenzino and Katerina, Alessandro actually lay down and took a nap. But, as you might have guessed, Lorenzino had more than a little trist planned for his cousin. Upon leaving Alessandro in his bedchamber, Lorenzino did not seek out Catarina.
Starting point is 00:11:06 He instead went to his loyal servant, Piero de Joannebate, nicknamed Scoron Concholo. Lorenzino had already gotten the thuggish man to agree to help enact justice against an unnamed enemy that he would lock in his bedchamber. While ushering Scorn Concholo back, though, Lorenzino had to ensure that his accomplice was prepared to follow through on his promise, regardless of the target's identity. In other words, he told him, yes, they were going after the Duke of Florence. And as Lorenzino saw it, it was a deed that needed to be done. Like Lorenzino, Alessandro's early years were inauspicious, especially by Medici standards. Alessandro was actually born a bastard son of a Medici ruler and an enslaved woman. Alessandro also lost his father at a young. young age, a death that, after years of strife and maneuvering within the family, remarkably led Alessandro to be named the first Duke of Florence. Especially following Alessandro's ascension and Lorenzino's return to Florence from Rome, the cousins outwardly appeared to be inseparable. Alessandro was said to have greatly loved his cousin, favoring Lorenzino's
Starting point is 00:12:38 advice at court and benefiting from Lorenzino's hearty enabling of his philandering. But as Lorenzino apparently felt at his core and would continue to argue for years to come, Alessandro was a true monster, a man obsessed with torturing and killing men for real or perceived slights, a tyrant. How could he be allowed to continue to live and rule? Outside Lorenzino's bedchamber, Scorincololo assured Lorenzino that he would not spare their wicked foe, whether he was the Duke or even Jesus himself. So Lorenzino called out to check whether his cousin was asleep, and then he and Scorinconcolo entered through a different door. The two attacked Alessandro, who jolted awake and fought desperately. Alessandro even bit down on Lorenzo's hand in an attempt to free himself.
Starting point is 00:13:41 Finally, after a frenzied struggle, Alessandro fell still. Scorincololo's dagger planted in his throat. Lorenzino and Scorinconcolo immediately fled on horseback. As Lorenzino eventually arrived in Venice, news of the Duke's sensational death was spreading like wildfire. Word traveled through urgent missives, rumors, and through Lorenzino's own lips. You heard that right. Rather than refute his guilt, Lorenzino confessed his crime to anyone and everyone who would listen. As any fan of TV murder mysteries or Agatha Christie novels knows,
Starting point is 00:14:28 Catching a Killer is usually a tricky task that takes cunning and exhaustive investigation. Only when faced with irrefutable evidence and no foreseeable escape do murderers finally give up and confess. Lorenzino would have made for an incredibly unsatisfying novel. Not only did he openly admit he killed Duke Alessandro, he wrote a whole, flowery, eloquent explanation of it called The Apology. Obviously, the apology is about as subjective of a statement as you'll find. But in many ways, that's what makes it so fascinating, because it serves as a window into Lorenzino's mind and motivations. Why did Lorenzino murder Alessandro? Especially when he had no plan in place to usurp power himself or to aid another noble in seizing it.
Starting point is 00:15:27 His apology has been hailed by many as a sparkling piece of rhetoric, but even his own arguments got fairly tangled. First, Lorenzino emphasized his political reasons for murdering Alessandro. Per the ancient Roman ideals of republicanism that Lorenzino studied and admired, he saw it as his duty to eliminate a tyrannical oppressor. As I touched on earlier, he claimed that Alessandro, was a fiend, a sadistic villain whose cruel behavior made him worse than Caligula and Nero combined. The way in which Lorenzino asserted his murderous responsibility, essentially implied that he thought
Starting point is 00:16:12 of himself as the brutus of his day. Republican and Florentine exiles, living abroad, soon echoed that sentiment, comparing Alessandro's rule to Caesar's dictatorship, and hailing Lorenzino as, as their Tuscan Brutus. In his apology, Lorenzino also wades into a more philosophical branch of reasoning for killing his cousin. Lorenzino debated the entire legitimacy of power wielded by a hereditary ruler. Thus, in spite of the fact that returning power to the people would require a brutal act, in Lorenzino's mind, it was worth it.
Starting point is 00:16:54 Niccolo Machiavelli had written his famous treatise the prince only 20 years earlier, and in an ironic turn of history, actually dedicated it to Alessandro's father. So again, being an avid reader, Lorenzino was quite steeped in the idea that the end can justify the means. Finally, the apology also reveals several personal reasons Laurenzino wanted to kill his cousin. His writing conveys a lingering sense of self-righteousness about being a legitimate Medici son and not a bastard. The ways in which Lorenzino calls attention to Alessandro's, quote, innate cruelty and savagery, and his heritage as the son of a Moorish-inslaved mother, are worthy of note.
Starting point is 00:17:47 A great deal of scholarship has been written on the complexities of pre-modern ideas about race and the way they differ from our own, but in general, it's abdivor. worth questioning whether Lorenzino's biases against his cousin's Moorish ancestry could have factored into both his slaying of his cousin and his subsequent appeal for understanding from what he assumed to be a similarly biased audience. Zooming out to view Lorenzino's crime and written apology together, it's possible to trace an even more self-absorbed arc. As some historians have conjectured, it's possible Lorenzino's driving motive was simple.
Starting point is 00:18:33 He wanted to be noticed. After all, he was a Medici, but a fairly overlooked one. Considering the highly premeditated nature of both the murder and confession, the risks involved and all the new paths to fame that the printing press had ushered in, was this assassination to some degree? fueled by a desire to trade relative obscurity for celebrity, to shed recollections of, quote, little Lorenzo's meek childhood demeanor,
Starting point is 00:19:09 of his embarrassing expulsion from Rome, of his literally belittling moniker, in order to fully enter the limelight. Whatever his cocktail of motives, Lorenzino certainly gave the world a taste of, as some might call it today, his, quote, main character energy. He became famous and infamous almost overnight.
Starting point is 00:19:35 He gained tremendous support, especially in Venice, which was home to many members of the Florentine Republic that had previously failed against Medici's might. Exiles scattered across Europe celebrated Duke Alessandro's death. Support and money poured in from France and Spain. Commemorative medals were even produced depicting Lorenzino in Roman robes. But Lorenzino had obviously also made himself a marked man. The rest of the Medici family and its allies vehemently decried his deplorable act and vowed to retaliate. Casimo I, the first
Starting point is 00:20:19 de Medici, was named the next Duke of Florence, and he offered a handsome reward. ward to anyone who would avenge the murder of his predecessor Alessandro. And yet for 11 years, no one followed through. Plots were hatched, attempts were made, but for the most part, the new Duke dragged his feet on getting revenge. Despite promising swift action against Alessandro's murderer and being repeatedly urged to follow through by many in his political orbit, Cosimo the first basically tried to ignore the issue.
Starting point is 00:21:00 As Cosimo continued to delay his plans of revenge, many contemporaries describe Lorenzino as a wretched soul wrecked by anguish and guilt. But in fact, some sources show that not only did he stay hopeful that one day exiles would be able to return to Florence, over the years he went on multiple diplomatic missions to Mirandola, France, and Constantinople to stoke support for his personal cause. And so, 11 years after he killed his cousin, on that chilly morning in Venice in 1548,
Starting point is 00:21:40 as Lorenzino left church with his uncle, it's not unthinkable that some part of him dared hope that he might never actually have to pay the ultimate price for killing Alessandro. His ambushing attackers, however, had other plans. They beat him, stabbed him, and closed the homicidal loop. Those men's identities were clear right away. Francesco Biboni and Bebo de Voltaire soon went to collect their reward from Duke Cosimo. But they were contracted killers, hired by somebody with more clout. So who actually had ordered the hit?
Starting point is 00:22:27 It wasn't until 2015, a full 467 years after the fact that definitive proof emerged. If this murder mystery were a movie or a novel, a determined detective might have the benefit of interrogating prime suspects in a nice contained location. Say a cozy train or charming English manor has. In reality, all of the main players here were spread across Europe, and then eventually all dead and gone. But the detective at the core of this century-spanning case, the historian Stefano Del Alio, was delightfully dedicated in his investigation. So let's don our sleuthing hats and puff thoughtfully on our pipes and follow along with him in examining the likely individuals and possible theories. behind who was behind Lorenzino's execution. The obvious first suspect was Cosimo I de Medici,
Starting point is 00:23:35 the replacement Duke of Florence, who would have wanted to avenge a death in the family and protect Medici power. He offered the reward, had multiple agents in Venice trying to tie up loose ends, met with Lorenzino's two attackers beforehand, and then gave them their promised reward afterward. Case closed, right? Many scholars accepted that narrative for centuries,
Starting point is 00:24:01 but Dal Alio found letters that proved Cosimo's agents were actually, bear with me, in Venice to kill a different influential Florentine exile, and Cosimo was not even the first noble to be alerted once Lorenzino's murder was accomplished. John Francesco Lottini was another likely culprit. Lottini was Duke Cosimo's secretary, and a guy with a history of violence. Several historians writing after the event posited that Cosimo sent him to Venice, where he then predominantly organized Lorenzino's assassination. But there's no direct evidence to support that theory,
Starting point is 00:24:49 and in fact it was actually later discovered that 19th century historians who posited it had actually misunderstood key archival documents. It was also natural to wonder whether the assassins had simply acted of their own accord. The reward was massive. On top of the huge sum of 4,000 gold ducats, which would have been over 100 times the annual salary of many laborers and laborers. soldiers at the time. The successful killers of Lorenzino would also be shielded from punishment and even receive amnesty for any prior crimes. Still, even for such a bounty, this theory doesn't make a ton
Starting point is 00:25:37 of sense given the risks, the political clout of the main parties involved, and the fact that after so long, any killer seriously considering the job would want to go through the proper channels to clear it with Cosimo beforehand to make sure that they would still get paid, as the two killers did. I mean, there was no guarantee that the reward was still standing 11 years later. Margaret of Parma, Alessandro's grieving widow, was another interesting suspect. The two had been married less than a year before Lorenzino killed Alessandro. She was only 14 at the time and devastated to the point that she signed her letters, Sad Margaret.
Starting point is 00:26:28 She placed her own bounty on Lorenzino's head, although her most potent means of instigating revenge wouldn't be from her own direct influence. It would be from her ability to call on. other powerful figures, including Charles V, the Hapsburg King of Spain, the Archduke of Austria, and Holy Roman Emperor, a man who ruled a conglomeration of realms so large, some referred to it as the empire on which the sun never sets. Turns out, Charles had two big motives. First, Duke Alessandro had been under his direct political protection, and two, Duke Alessandro's wife, Margaret, was his daughter, so he was adamant that for reasons personal and political, his son-in-law
Starting point is 00:27:26 must be avenged. Our investigative historian Del Alio had a hunch that Charles V was the mastermind pulling the strings. But if so, why did he wait so long? For one thing, letters showed that Charles felt that revenge should come from Florence. Casimo should be the one to enact justice for a crime that was committed in his own state. Additionally, Charles V was really, really busy. He was off at war with France and trying to staunch the spread of Protestantism in Germany. Back in Florence, Casimo had his own reasons for procrastinating, avenging his predecessor. On a basic level, he actually wouldn't even be Duke if Alessandro hadn't died,
Starting point is 00:28:18 so he wasn't too terribly upset about it. And furthermore, he was more focused on consolidating power in Florence at the time, on quelling, more exile uprisings, ardently supporting the arts, and actually being an unusually faithful husband. He had his own life to lead. Cosimo eventually proved to be an astute ruler who became the first Grand Duke of Tuscany, and he would have a substantial influence on Florentine culture for years to come, even cementing a relatively successful working relationship with Charles V. So ironically, if Lorenzino had indeed been attempting to limit Medici power in Florence by killing Duke Alessandro, it backfired.
Starting point is 00:29:06 Nevertheless, as the years passed, Charles V grew restless on that lingering loose end of Lorenzino. The timing of Lorenzino's murder ultimately coincided with a period when Charles V's other conflicts abated, and he finally had time to focus on the Italian states. His direct involvement makes sense, but historian Del Alio needed clear proof in order to, to connect the dots. Luckily, Charles V. left behind plenty of evidence. As Delalio himself said of his search,
Starting point is 00:29:47 quote, the most logical place to look for a gun, still smoking after 500 years, was Charles V's own archives, which he founded during this period to preserve his papers. Sure enough, surprisingly explicit documents preserved there
Starting point is 00:30:05 shed definitive light, specifically direct correspondence between Charles V and his Venetian ambassador, which revealed the emperor's adamant stance that Lorenzino's crime should never be forgiven. The men contemplated the possible methods, logistics, and personnel that would be needed to finally kill Lorenzino. Then, at long last on January 11, 1548, a letter from Augsburg arrived in Venice. Charles V personally ordered Lorenzino de Medici's murder. Duke Cosimo had been generally informed of the plot, particularly so that he could guarantee the payment of his offered bounty. But when it came to bringing Lorenzino to justice, Charles V, Charles V, Charles V's ambassador, and the two hired killers took the primary initiative.
Starting point is 00:31:04 Accordingly, Charles V was immediately notified of Lorenzino's death before any other ruler so that he could give instructions on how to proceed. In hindsight, seeking out a repository of incredibly relevant and conveniently kept information seems almost laughably obvious. The evidence was right there. But revisiting such a case took the fortitude to challenge long-accepted wisdom, wisdom that seemed plausible enough, and to form the right theories to know where to look. Solving the mystery in this case also required that the executioner, our big boss Charles V, preserved his correspondence. And why shouldn't he? Why worry about anyone discovering a little more blood on his hands? If anything, his feelings,
Starting point is 00:31:58 feelings were probably the opposite. Though this was only a small chapter of his sizable legacy, it's easy to imagine that on some level, he wanted it known for posterity that if you come for a protected duke, a noble cousin, the son-in-law of the most powerful man in Europe, you don't walk free forever. If revenge is a dish best served cold, then the final helping Charles served to Lorenzino was truly ice. That's the story of Lorenzino de Medici's turbulent life and murder. But stick around after a brief sponsor break to hear about an additional intriguing wrinkle in Lorenzino's murderous legacy. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodom.
Starting point is 00:32:55 My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers, Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and The Big Money Players Network. It's Will Farrell. Woo-woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.
Starting point is 00:33:26 Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.
Starting point is 00:33:50 Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up everyone? I'm Ago Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
Starting point is 00:34:24 I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.
Starting point is 00:34:55 Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. After killing Lorenzino Diomedici, one of the hired assassins actually distributed his own written account of his violent act. Far from exhibiting the eloquence and erudite musings of Lorenzino's apology, Francesco Biboni's cruder confession still completed a fitting sort of 11-year call and response.
Starting point is 00:35:35 And in its own way, this follow-up statement amplified some of Laurenzino's. Zeno's own morbid rationale. Or, as author-translator Tim Parks put it, quote, the notion that saving oneself from the oblivion of anonymity is sufficient justification for any atrocity. Noble Blood is a production of I-Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Courtney Sender, Amy Height, and Julia Milani. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk with supervising producer Rima Il K. Ali
Starting point is 00:36:28 and executive producers Aaron Manky, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Everyone, I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall
Starting point is 00:37:03 and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio.
Starting point is 00:37:22 app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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