Noble Blood - The Love of the Duchess of Devonshire, Part 1
Episode Date: September 6, 2022When she was seventeen years old, Georgiana Spencer married William Cavendish and became the Duchess of Devonshire. Almost overnight, she charmed everyone in London society... except her husband. Supp...ort Noble Blood: — Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon — Merch! — Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story' and pre-order its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story'See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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This is an I-Heart podcast.
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Hey there, folks. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here.
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Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of IHeart Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Manky.
Listener discretion advised.
On the evening of May 8th, 1777, the city of London was preparing for a night of theater.
Backstage at the Drury Lane Theater, costumers frantically mended seams and wrangled actors into wardrobe,
while stage hands meticulously accounted for each of the props that would inevitably pass through
their hands before the night was over.
But as candles were lit and set pieces were placed just so, beyond the thin walls of the theater,
another show was already well into its first act.
The doors to the Drury Lane Theater's house lobby were open, and the audience's arrivals
brought with them a spectacle all their own.
A seemingly endless parade of carriages lined the street outside as women with impossibly tall hairpieces were forced to maneuver themselves with an excess of caution, so as not to topple the glorified sculptures balanced precariously atop their heads.
When theater goers finally managed to make their way past the front doors and into the theater lobby, typical patrons of the Drury Lane may have been slightly puzzled at the appearance of not only,
so many women dressed in over-the-top finery, but men as well, flaunting tightly fit waistcoats
and high-heeled shoes paired with almost comically small hats skewed crickedly on their heads.
Opening nights were celebratory occasions, to be sure, but these types of fashion statements
were excessive even for the theater, though given what they were about to watch,
heightened states of dress were hardly going to be considered drama by the night's end.
Technically speaking, the crowd was there to watch the opening night performance of playwright Richard Sheridan's newest play, The School for Scandal.
But in the weeks leading up to the production, it had quickly become London's worst-kept secret that the plot to his newest play was almost exclusively centered around the inner workings of a group of London socialites and politicians that had come to be known as the Devonshire House Circle.
Not that the subject matter was exactly a stretch for the playwright.
This was his own group of friends, after all.
As the house seat began to fill, it became glaringly obvious
that the night was not going to be solely focused on the happenings on stage.
Not when half of the Devonshire House Circle was gleefully taking their seat in the orchestra,
with smug Cheshire Cat grins mirrored across their faces,
ready to see what parts of their lives their friend Sheridan had deemed worthy of the stage,
and especially not when the real-life counterpart to the play's main character
finally stepped through the doors of the Drury Lane Theater.
At just 19 years old, the Duchess of Devonshire, Georgiana Cavendish,
had the ton eating out the palm of her hand.
She had only been married to the Duke for two years,
but considering her almost overnight meteoric rise to fame,
you'd have to live under a rock,
or be the Duke himself,
not to marvel at the Duchess's ability to charm a room.
Even as the curtains were drawn and actors flooded the stage
as the show began in earnest,
all eyes remained towards the real Duchess,
especially as the play's plot unfolded
to tell the plight of Lady Teasel,
a young woman who had moved from the country,
to marry a nobleman who had absolutely no interest in his new wife.
The character Lady Teasel was a woman who,
still so young and innocent,
was lured into the depths of depravity
that festered at the core of London's high society.
The other members of the Devonshire House Circle
delighted in seeing caricatures of themselves parade across the stage,
no doubt entertained by the colorful names chosen to embody
some of their circles more notorious drama magnets.
You can probably guess the type of character someone named Lady Sneerwell or Snake would be.
The School for Scandal would go on to be Richard Sheraton's most successful work,
celebrated for its quick wit and pointed satire.
However, despite its overall positive reception,
there are no surviving records as to the real Duchess's candid thoughts on the
the production. But as Georgiana Cavendish sat in the dark on opening night with the weight of
the theater's eyes upon her, it's not difficult to imagine that her easy smile slowly became harder
to keep up, as the consequences of her all two real-life choices were played out on stage before her.
By the end of the night, her School for Scandal counterpart, Lady Teesel, had managed to escape the clutches
of the ton relatively unscathed. But when Georgiana Cavendish finally climbed back into her carriage,
ready to be taken back to Devonshire House, a home filled with nothing but a childless nursery,
gambling debts, and the disappointment of her husband, it's enough to make anyone wonder
whether she didn't wish her night at the theater could have lasted only a little longer,
or ended a little differently.
I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is Noble Blood.
On the day of her 17th birthday, young Georgiana found herself standing in a church,
face to face with William Cavendish, the man who would give her, quite possibly, her most
extravagant birthday present to date. The title, Duchess of Devonshire.
17 years earlier, she had been born Georgiana Spencer, the first child of John and Lady Georgianna,
Spencer in Northamptonshire, England. Unlike the majority of historical figures we cover on this
podcast, Georgina had a surprisingly happy trauma-free childhood. Her parents had a successful marriage,
that is to say, there are no recorded instances of affairs or illegitimate children,
and because Georgiana was their oldest, she was doted on endlessly by both her parents,
but especially her mother. Even after giving birth to Georgiana,
her mother still held a clear favoritism for her eldest daughter, telling Georgiana as a
teenager, quote, you are my best and dearest friend. You have my heart and may do what you will with it.
So when William Cavendish, the 5th Duke of Devonshire, came knocking to pursue Georgiana's hand in marriage,
Lady Spencer was understandably hesitant to let her daughter go at such a young age.
She had no desire to see her daughter become a, quote, child bride,
but Georgiana was not blind to the attention she had been receiving from the Duke,
nor was she blind to the reactions his interests had elicited from her parents.
A union between the Spencer and Devonshire families,
two of the most powerful aristocratic families in the Whig Party,
would only strengthen what political foothold they had in the English government.
Even Lady Spencer could not argue against the advantages a marriage between those two households would bring.
At only 16 years old, Georgiana was so dedicated to her parents' happiness
that it was barely any work for her to convince herself she had fallen in love with the powerful Duke.
So what if he was a bit aloof when they met?
Surely it was an act put on around those outside his inner circle.
Her father was also awkward in public settings.
sense. After they married, his real personality would shine through and the two would be hopelessly in
love and live happily ever after. Well, as you, or anyone who has ever waited for a man to change
can probably understand, the Duke did not miraculously fall in love with Georgiana after they married.
If anything, William began to resent the Duchess the longer he was forced to share her company.
Unlike his new wife, the Duke had no romantic ideations when it came to his and Georgiana's union.
He had chosen his wife, with most likely the same care he had taken to hire his staff.
In theory, she checked off all the right boxes.
She came from a good family, was well-educated, yet, most importantly, was still young enough to be molded to his needs.
Theoretically, in practice, the Duke would discover Georgiana not completely.
dissimilar from his own demeanor, had a personality that was not so easy to change.
Georgiana had spent the entirety of her life up until this point, being showered in the affection
and adoration of her parents. Being snubbed by her husband in every situation, save his
sporadic nightly visits to try to conceive an air, was quickly exhausting any remaining hope
she may have held for her new marriage.
When she finally wrote to her mother,
seeking advice on how to best please her new husband,
Lady Spencer replied,
quote,
But where a husband's delicacy and indulgence is so great
that he will not say what he likes,
the task becomes more difficult,
and a wife must use all possible delicacy and ingenuity
in trying to find out his inclinations, end quote.
Unfortunately, it seemed no amount of delicacy or ingenuity could change the Duke's overall ambivalence toward his new wife,
leaving Georgiana with the horrifying revelation that we all saw coming.
There was no happily ever after.
But while the Duke could barely stand to be in the same room as his wife for longer than five minutes,
The whole of London seemingly couldn't get enough of the newest addition to the House of Devonshire.
It seemed that everywhere Georgiana went, for better or for worse, the Duchess couldn't help but attract attention.
One woman remarked, quote,
She was so handsome, so agreeable, so obliging in her manner, that I am quite in love with her, end quote.
While another would go on to say, I think there is too much of her, she gives me the idea.
of being larger than life. Even if the public couldn't quite agree on how they felt about their
newcomer, larger than life seems pretty accurate in terms of Georgiana's appeal to late 18th
century London society, though larger than life could also easily describe the company she began
to keep in the Devonshire House Circle. The Circle was comprised of around 100 London politicians,
artists and socialites, whose only official unifying factor remained their allegiance to the Whig party.
Unofficially, membership to the circle was a symbol of wealth and status,
one's level of import becoming synonymous with how intimate their knowledge was of the goings-on
in Devonshire House. A primary example of this was the use of what became known as the Cavendish
Drawl, an accent found nowhere else in London, let alone the rest of
Great Britain, except within the walls of Devonshire House. The strange affectation stretched vowel
sounds in odd ways, while simultaneously putting stresses on unusual syllables for seemingly no reason.
It's what I can only compare to the vocal stylings of Schitt's Creeks, Moira Rose, and like Moira Rose
and her strangely elitist pattern of speech, the Cavendish drawl was really just a
another way for the Circle to widen the divine between themselves and the rest of London society.
But the divide between classes was perhaps more easily distinguished in the circle's style of dress.
For if the Devonshire House Circle had a motto, it was probably something along the lines of
more is more. So the critique that the Duchess was larger than life was not completely unwarranted,
especially considering the fact that she would sometimes walk into events
wearing three foot tall hair pieces, all for the sake of fashion.
Even before Georgiana became the Duchess,
it was in style for women's hair to be styled well above where it would naturally sit.
But after months spent trying anything and everything to get the attention of her husband,
I like to imagine Georgiana Cavendish wanted to be certain
every other eye in London would be turned toward her.
Amanda Foreman's biography, Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire,
outlines some of the more extreme stylings, writing,
quote,
she stuck pads of horsehair to her own hair,
and decorated the top with miniature ornaments, unquote.
Among the most notable ornaments being waxed fruit, stuffed birds,
or my personal favorite, quote,
a pastoral tableau with little wooden,
trees and sheep, unquote.
Georgiana's styles would take two hairdressers multiple hours to achieve
in order to reach the level of perfection she strived for.
And even then, the pieces would be so tall
the Duchess famously had to sit on the floor of her carriage
in order to arrive at her destination
with the construction fully intact.
And yet, despite the hair's complete impracticality,
seemingly overnight, the rest of London
was following suit.
But Georgina's influence was not just confined to the world of fashion.
Not long after the School for Scandal made its debut at the Drury Lane Theater,
Georgiana anonymously published a novel titled The SILF,
loosely based on her own life as an outsider marrying into a position of power
and learning the problematic ways of London's aristocracy.
Unlike the public's reaction to,
Sheridan's comparatively naive Lady Teasel, readers were scandalized by the darker thematic elements
within the sylph. The tawn stared at the pages simultaneously enraptured and horrified. The novel
depicted a relationship between an abusive husband who blamed his wife for the miscarriage of their
child. The veil of anonymity was already thin to begin with, since most of the names in the novel bore a
very close resemblance to their real-life counterparts.
But the darker themes running throughout were enough to give readers pause.
Surely this could not be rumored to be written by the same Duchess whose fashions paraded
through all of London society pages.
But if it was, what else was Georgiana Cavendish hiding and what was really going on
within the walls of Devonshire House?
Quote,
The Pretty Duchess of Devonshire.
who, by all accounts, has no faults but delicate health in my mind,
dines at seven, summer as well as winter, goes to bed at three, and lies in bed till four.
She has hysterical fits in the morning and dances in the evening.
She bathes, rides, and dances for ten days, and lies in bed the next ten.
End quote.
This account of the Duchess's behavior by one of her close friends
probably most accurately sums up her existence in the early years of her marriage.
If there was one constant in Georgiana's life, it would be the inconsistency in which she chose to live it.
The Duchess's popularity wasn't without its pitfalls. Beneath the towering wigs and charming disposition,
Georgina was, at any moment, one carefully crafted smile away from social ruin.
In the months since her wedding, lacking any love,
or validation from her husband,
Georgina found solace
in gambling tables across London.
If the nights of constant inebriation
weren't enough of a stress on her body,
the sudden onslaught of gambling debts
made sure even her sober hours
were tormented with near constant anxiety.
In the span of a few short months,
Georgiana had accumulated thousands of pounds of debt,
which she had assumed the Duke would forgive
after she gave him a Devonshire heir.
Only that was another problem.
Georgina had little trouble getting pregnant,
but remaining so proved tragically difficult.
One miscarriage quickly turned to two,
then three, and by the fourth,
the Duke began to blame his wife for the failed pregnancies.
And while her late nights out
and excessive alcohol consumption probably didn't help matters,
I think it's important to remember that up until the
the 1970s, there was little to no discourse on the negative effects of alcohol on pregnant bodies.
So, though her ventures into London Nightlife may, from our point of view, with over 200 years
worth of additional medical hindsight, look ill-advised, it wasn't understood as to be as cut
and dry as we see it today. Regardless, after eight years with a perpetually empty nursery,
In 1782, the Duke and Georgiana decided to take a trip to Bath in the hopes that the town's
healing waters would cure the Duchess of whatever was keeping her from having a healthy child,
and though the couple would not find the miracle cure for the Duchess's infertility,
by the end of their stay, one more person would be returning to Devonshire House with them.
Unlike most who came to visit Bath, Lady Elizabeth Foster,
or Bess, as she was known to her friends, had not traveled to the small country town in search
of healing cures. Recently separated from her husband, Foster suddenly found herself at a bitter
crossroads in her life. Her husband retained custody of their two children and left her with
no money to support herself, leaving Bess Foster with no choice but to stay with an aunt in Bath.
Upon her initial introduction to the Devonshire's, the Duchess was immediately taken by the unfortunate tale of the all but destitute Bess Foster.
Georgiana was more than ready to shower her new friend in all the love and affection she had been so far unable to give out in her own home to her husband.
Given what we know about Georgina's extroverted tendencies, this is probably less than surprising, but what was surprising,
was the Duke. Against all odds also, similarly became enamored with their newest acquaintance,
so much so that by the end of their summer in Bath, an invitation was extended to Bess
to return to the city with them. Now, the Devonshire House Circle was no stranger to the concepts
of sex or scandal, but even so, Bess's arrival in London created a commotion the likes of which
had even members of the circle clutching their pearls. Word within the circle traveled faster over
drinks and gambling tables than printing presses could ever hope to keep up with, and it didn't take
long for the ton to make assumptions as to why the newest member of Devinshire House had found
herself with nowhere else to go. Typically, in 18th century marital separations, it was not uncommon
for husbands to maintain custody of children.
However, it was uncommon for the separated wife
to receive no monetary compensation
with which to support herself.
The only instances of this occurring
usually indicated some sort of,
quote, wrongdoing on the side of the wife,
most commonly an instance of infidelity.
So with rumors of Bess's infidelity
against her former husband flying across the ton,
it only makes sense that the next rumor would be speculation as to the exact nature of her relationship with the Duke and Duchess.
After all, in the entirety of the eight years the Duke and Duchess had been married,
when had they ever agreed on anything as a couple?
And out of all aspects of a marriage to finally settle on,
the first thing is bringing another woman into their home,
and they really expected the Devonshire House Circle,
the bona fide poster children for extramarital affairs and sex scandals,
to believe that nothing nefarious was going on?
Even now, nearly 250 years after the fact,
scholars and casual historians can't help but to speculate
as to what exactly happened behind closed doors at Devonshire House.
Of course, the most popular theory,
if only because it remained the lowest,
hanging fruit, is their infamously rumored menager-tois. And while the idea of this dysfunctional
thruple is enticing in its inherent drama, I'm sorry to inform you the specific threesome
most likely never happened. It's true, the Duke and Duchess both independently loved Bess,
but it's evident through their various correspondences that their love was not intertwined in any
sort of capacity. In fact, it was Bess's ability to morph into what the Duke and what Gorgiana
needed as individuals at any given moment that made her so indispensable to their relationship.
For Georgiana, Bess became an invaluable confidant for her to vent all frustrations regarding
her loveless marriage with the Duke. Of course, the undeniable closeness between the two women
would give birth to the possibility the second most popular rumor,
as to the goings-on at Devonshire House,
a lesbian love affair between Bess and Georgiana.
And while this claim, in my opinion,
still lack sufficient evidence,
there is no mistaking the strength of devotion
between these two women.
Quote,
who has any right to know how long
or how tenderly we love one another?
Georgina wrote in a letter to Bess,
following public speculation of their relationship.
She continued writing,
quote,
of two hearts want an excuse to be accounted for, and must your partiality to me be ushered in
by another connection? Of course, the existence of, quote, another connection, aka a supposed
sexual relationship, can't be confirmed by something so flimsy as this, but, ironically,
the majority of scholarly discourse on the nature of their relationship stems from the letters
historians have never been able to read. At some point in the last 200 years,
someone close to the Devonsurers went through all of the records of their correspondence,
censoring and destroying anything they saw as potentially harmful to the family's legacy,
which unfortunately had the opposite effect of making curious parties speculate wildly as to
what could have been so damning as to necessitate such extreme censorship.
Ultimately, the full extent of Georgiana and
and Bess's relationship will remain a mystery.
But in my personal opinion,
given the sexual proclivities associated with the Devonshire House Circle,
it's entirely possible their relationship may have,
at one point or another, blurred its lines.
But the fact remains whatever their romantic relationship may or may not have been,
the two undoubtedly shared a deep emotional connection that persisted throughout their lives.
With Bess's comforting presents, Georgiana began to ease on her drinking and late nights
and soon found herself pregnant once again.
And finally, after nine years of marriage, in 1783, Georgiana gave birth to her first healthy
child and the whole of Devonshire House took a collective sigh of relief.
The child may have been, to the Duke's disappointment, a girl, but her birth proved
Georgina could eventually give birth to a healthy air.
And with her best friend at her side,
it seemed as if the loveless marriage she had once felt trapped in
no longer had such a suffocating hold on her life.
That is, until just over a year later,
when within weeks of discovering that she was once again pregnant,
Georgina would come to the life-altering realization
that she was not the only woman in Devonshire House.
carrying the Duke's child.
Now remember earlier when I said it was Bess's ability to morph into the specific needs of both the
Duke and Duchess that made her so invaluable to them?
Well, following the death of the Duke's longtime mistress, the Duke was left with a romantic
void in his life that he would have sooner worn one of his wife's three-foot wigs than
try to let her fill.
But any doubt in his wife's judge of character was swiftly forgotten, upon his own.
his introduction to Lady Elizabeth Foster on that faithful trip to Beth.
Bess may have come into Devonshire House as Georgiana's close friend, but she was no fool.
She was in no rush to return to her life waiting for her father to dole out pennies while she
lived with her aunt in the country. So when she saw how the loneliness of the Devonshire marriage
was not only affecting Georgiana but the Duke himself, Bess was quick to make herself
available as a source of comfort to both sides of the unhappy marriage.
But fast forward three years and an unplanned pregnancy later, and Georgiana's world was once
again crumbling to pieces around her. In the wake of Bess's betrayal, Georgiana once again
began indulging in a few of her more self-destructive vices, namely deepening the pit of debt
she'd already dug herself into gambling across London.
And when her second successful pregnancy yielded yet another girl instead of the air her husband needed from her,
the duchess's nearly 100,000 pounds in debt, or roughly 6 million pounds in today's money,
suddenly became ground for the Duke to demand a marital separation.
But where Bess had previously stepped in on the Duchess's behalf to plead with the Duke for leniency,
Bess found that the dynamic between the group had shifted.
Following the birth of her own illegitimate daughter with the Duke,
Bess no longer felt the need to display the same undying loyalty toward Georgiana that she had before,
or at least pretended that she had before.
Maybe Bess was bitter that, female or not, Georgiana's daughters were allowed to live under the same roof as her,
unlike her own newborn daughter who she was forced to leave behind with a foster family.
Maybe she realized Georgiana's hold on the title of Duchess was steadily slipping through her fingers,
and maybe Bess wanted to be the one ready to take up the mantle.
Maybe Bess was tired of living off those who deemed her worthy of the scraps they allowed.
lot at her. In the end, Bess's cold shoulder wouldn't matter. Even if the Duke chose to leave
his wife for good, there was almost no scenario that saw Bess living the same privileged life
Georgiana enjoyed as the Duchess. Despite her insurmountable debts, Georgiana was still
undeniably popular in the public eye. The Devonshire House Circle would surely ostracize any
other woman that usurped their beloved Georgiana, especially another woman who had claimed to be
Georgiana's closest friend. In other words, the public was squarely hashtag team Georgiana. For his part,
the Duke was reluctantly coming to a similar realization. Unfortunately for his wallet,
gambling away the family estate was not sufficient grounds for divorce. Now if Georgiana had,
let's say, had an affair, the Duke may have had more of a case.
But unlike her husband, she had remained unwaveringly faithful
through the course of their marriage.
Of course, up until this point, Georgiana had yet to meet
the young, passionate Whig politician
who would forever alter the course of her life,
a man named Charles Gray.
That marks the end of our first episode on Georgiana Cavendish,
The Duchess of Devonshire.
Next week we'll be back with part two,
but stick around after a brief sponsor break
to hear a connection Georgiana has
with another royal you may know.
What's up, everyone?
I'm Ago Vodam.
My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers,
Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,
and the Big Money Players Network.
It's Will Ferrell.
Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo.
My dad gave me the best advice ever.
I went and had lunch with him one day,
And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.
I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent.
He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.
Yeah.
He goes, but there's so much luck involved.
And he's like, just give it a shot.
He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.
Just hang in there.
Yeah, it would not be.
Right, it wouldn't be that.
There's a lot of luck.
Listen to Thanks Dad on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
What's up, everyone?
I'm Ago Wode.
My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and The Big Money Play
Network. It's Will Ferrell.
Woo, woo, woo, woo.
My dad gave me the best advice ever.
I went and had lunch with him one day and I was like,
and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot.
I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.
I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place they come,
look for up and coming talent.
He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you,
which is really sweet.
Yeah.
He goes, but there's so much luck involved.
And he's like, just give it a shot.
He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.
If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration.
It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.
Just hang in there.
Yeah, it would not be.
Right, it wouldn't be that.
There's a lot of luck.
Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Now, if Georgiana's made.
maiden name Spencer, immediately set off alarm bells in the royal obsessed part of your brain.
I commend you on your encyclopedic knowledge of British royal lineage. For everyone else,
allow me to explain. A little over 200 years after Georgiana Spencer was plucked from relative
obscurity to become the Duchess of Devonshire, another Spencer would similarly shed her maiden
name and shed her previously quiet existence for a title that would make her a household name
overnight. Georgiana's great, great, great, great niece, Diana Spencer would marry Prince Charles
in 1981 and become Diana, Princess of Wales. In the year since Princess Diana's marriage into the
royal family and tragically untimely death, historians and tabloids alike have taken to comparing the two
iconic women who forever left an imprint on their respective cultural landscapes. And why,
While it's true, both became unmistakable style icons, both stuck in unhappy marriages,
both married to indifferent husbands, even as they were adored by the public, I think it's also
impossible to compare the two women without also taking into account the role that the tabloid media
had in their lives. Interesting, isn't it, how over two centuries can pass, and yet the press
still finds itself reliant on the toxic cycle of building up women to fit on impossibly
high pedestals just so they can relish their inevitable falls. It's enough to make you wonder how much
of these women's lives were dictated by worry about what would be printed the next day, and how
different their lives might have been had the press decided to tell a different story.
Noble Blood is a production of IHeart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky.
Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz. Additional writing and researching done by Hannah
Johnston, Hannah Zwick, Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. The show is produced by
Rima Il Kiali, with supervising producer Josh Thane and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of
plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans.
I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change.
We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.
You can have opinions, you can have like a strong stance, and then there's your body
having its own program.
Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcast.
This is an IHeart podcast.
Guaranteed human.
