Noble Blood - The Queen Mother Who Refused to Die

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Against the odds, Idia's son, Esigie, became the leader—Oba—of the Edo people. And against even greater odds, Idia survived to help him rule.Support Noble Blood:—PRE-ORDER 'THE ARCANE ARTS'— Bonus episodes, stickers, and scripts on Patreon— Order Dana's book, 'Anatomy: A Love Story' and its sequel 'Immortality: A Love Story'See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong,

dance and then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcasts presents Soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. This is my best friend, Janet. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely.

A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer. games in the back of my Honda Odyssey with all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they hit a

bogo. Well, then you got them. Listen to soccer moms on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Readers, Katie's finalists, publicists. We have an incredible new episode this week for you guys. We have our girl Hillary Duff in here, and we can't wait for you to hear this episode. They put on Lizzie McGuire 2 a.m. Video on

Demand. This guy's bobo-o-bub. 2 a.m. Whatever time it is. Lizzie McGuire. And I'm Wild, a wild batch you were with. It was like a first, like, closet moment from me where I was like... You're like, like, I don't feel like she's hot, like the rest of that. No, no, no. I was like, she's beautiful. But I'm appreciating her in a different way than these boys are.

I'm not like... But listen to Los Angeles on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of IHeart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised. Hey, this is Dana Schwartz. Just one quick personal note before we begin today's episode. I have a new book coming out. It is called The Arcane Arts. And I wrote it, but it's actually by S.D. Coverly for two reasons. One, because I co-wrote it with a friend of mine, alternating chapters. I did the female point of view. He did the male point of view. And also because my last books were young adult. And this one is a little sexier. So if you are a younger or teenage reader, this might not be the book for you, and I wanted to differentiate that. But if you are at all interested in a story about a graduate student and a professor delving into secret forbidden magic at a grad school, please, please look into the book. And if you can, it would mean the world to me

if you could pre-order. Pre-orders are kind of the number one thing you can do to help authors. It just shows publishers that people care about this book. So the book is The Arcane Arts, if you could pre-order and you're a fan of me and a fan of my writing, it would mean the world. Let's get into today's episode. The stakes were so high that as the hours passed, even a sacred shrine started to feel like a cramped cage. Idia had been hiding in a hallowed grove within the highest-ranking chief's palace in Benin City, since her son, Esiga, had been crowned the ruler of of the Edo people, or the Oba. It should have been a time of joyous celebration.

Following years of planning and the death of the previous Oba, OzuLua, in 1504, Idia had finally triumphed in making her son his successor. However, Idia was in grave danger due to the pesky custom of killing and Oba's mother once he officially began his reign. According to several studies of oral histories, this bloody practice had been carried out since the early 14th century in the kingdom of Benin. The question of why such ruthless sacrifices were made is fairly complicated. The short answer, as some historians posit, is that Benin chiefs wanted to prohibit

influential mothers from exerting control once their sons reached the apex of the social hierarchy. The longer answer, as we'll explore shortly, incorporates far more nuance and context regarding eddo culture, spiritualism, and monarchical symbolism. As far as Idia was concerned, though, her son was the new Oba, and so like generations of royal mothers before her, She faced an immediate death warrant. But the upholders of Edo tradition had never before tangled with a woman like Edia. She was reportedly brilliant, charismatic, beautiful, cutthroat,

and exceedingly persuasive. She was both a devoted mother and a political visionary, and she was widely believed to have the most powerful weapon in her vast arsenal. magic. Consequently, Idiya's hiding place was not the result of some sudden impromptu escape. She had had ample time to plan, and her chosen hideout was a strategic one. The sacred shrine was named after Oshun, a god of medicine, forests, and magic, and only those initiates of sufficient supernatural prowess were allowed to enter. The arrangement was certainly no long-term solution, but if the exclusive refuge could buy Idia just enough time for the rest of her plan to come

to fruition, she had a chance to not only defend her life, but to forever change the power structures and generational rituals of the entire Benin kingdom. Still, with Idia's fate hardly resting in her own hands at that point, that was all quite a big if. If she could survive at all. I'm Dana Schwartz, and this is Noble Blood. As some keen listeners may have noticed, there are many connections here to our previous episode, Empires and the Benin bronzes. This new installment will allow us to delve further into

the life and legends of Edia, the remarkable warrior queen who inspired many of those exquisite works of art. It's also worth quickly clarifying a few terms. The Eddo people are an ethnic group originating from the Eddo Kingdom, which existed in different forms from roughly 900 AD, until 1897. Edo states still exist in present-day Nigeria and has Benin City as its capital. Herein lies potential for confusion since the Edo Kingdom is often called

the Kingdom of Benin in oral histories and written accounts, but it isn't related to the Republic of Benin, the modern West African nation. According to scholars, the term Benin came from 15th century Portuguese traders mishearing the Edo word Ubini, commonly translated to mean livable or land of the multitude. They referred to the kingdom and its people as Benin, which then became Benin around 1485. Evidently, the terms Edo, Benin, and Benin were all used in Idia's lifetime, as well as by later generations of both African oral historians and foreign academics. Relatedly, most scholarship on the kingdom of Benin relies on region-specific oratures and artistic traditions, which have preserved information in very particular. ways. Case in point, many of the dates of Idia's life are difficult to pinpoint exactly.

But major events have been memorably immortalized, especially regarding her unprecedented rise to power. As some legends have it, an Oracle advised Idia's parents that she was destined to marry Oba Ozolua. Her parents were opposed to that fate and sought to prevent it by permanently scarring Idias forehead with two large vertical incisions. Then, as a further deterrent, they got a priestess to infuse the wounds with medicinal herbs of potent supernatural power. But Oba Ozulua was impervious to that ploy. He became infatuated.

with Ida's charming nature and captivating dancing and chose to marry her anyway, ultimately fulfilling the oracle's prophecy. Some historians and writers, particularly more modern African writers, claim this interpretation is flawed. Considering the life-changing lineage-elevating wealth and power involved, they argue that it's more plausible that Edia's parents would have wanted her to marry Oba Azolua. It's difficult to definitively say how old Ida was when she married, or how she felt about it at the time,

but deeper analysis of the event points toward Ida likely having been trained in the ways of the royal court. Likewise, she was probably aware that presenting herself in a mystical, intriguing manner would make her especially attractive to an oba. Once the lively wedding celebrations died down, Idia thrived in her new life at the Oba's palace. As shown by her clever maneuvering among the chief's officials and Oba Ozuulu's other wives. As many tales illustrate,

she was able to make her son an oba despite seep odds. This required elite understanding. standing in three key areas, politics, military strategy, and possibly the aforementioned magic. Ida's deft political moves were on display the day her son Asigye was born. By all accounts, he should have been third in line to succeed his father as Oba. The first of Oba Ozulwa's son was Oji Degbo, and then came Arouan. each born to a different wife.

Then came Idiya's son, Eziye. Coincidentally, Arruhuan and Ecegia were born on the same day with Arouan actually arriving first, but then almost immediately losing his place in the pecking order. The reason why is a subject of debate. Some versions of the story specify that Uruhuan didn't immediately cry as a new boy, which was taken as an omen that he was unfit to be a future oba. Other iterations state that the line of succession came down to the fact that palace officials mistakenly reported to the oba that a CGA arrived first.

Multiple prominent modern scholars argue that in either case, Idiot was in control of the situation. She purportedly held more sway at the palace, than the other royal wives and was championed by the spiritual community there, the members of which often oversaw medical matters. So knowing how critical the official birthing order was, Idia ensured that her son took precedence.

This likely would have involved spreading concern about Arouan struggling to cry upon entering the world, or perhaps even entirely inventing that as a rumor. Later, when the Oba's three sons were young children, the first-born O.G. Digbo was seriously injured when playing with his brothers. He too was then deemed ineligible to become Oba. The circumstances of the injury come across as murky, and it's unclear whether it was an accident or foul play.

Regardless, signs point toward Idia swiftly capitalizing on Ojig Degbo's misfortune before the full extent of his physical limitations were known to install her son, Eziigie, as the heir apparent. In terms of military expertise, Idia's contributions became legendary through violent conflicts when Eziyei and Ereouan were young men. After Oba Ozu Lua died in 1504, Aesigye ruled Benin city and Arruhuan ruled Udu,

the city he'd relocated to 20 miles away. He refused to accept Aesigier as the Oba and for years plotted to oust him. Arruhuan inspired ample lore himself, much of it centered on his jaw-dropping physique and fighting skills. Many tales portray him as a fearsome giant, capable of uprooting trees with his bare hands. But Isigye was reportedly more of a worldly diplomatic and somewhat temperamental type. On the advice of his mother, Idia, he cultivated foreign relationships,

granting Christian missionaries and Portuguese ambassadors access to his realm. Due to Isigye's lack of battle expertise, however, his mother knew he needed her help to repel Arrohuan's growing forces. Idia didn't merely assist her son with wise advice. At times, she purportedly assumed control of his armies and ultimately motivated them to defeat Arouan in a drawn-out bloody civil war. As other rivals then sought to capitalize on the chaos, Idia again helped her son's military to victory in the Eda war. With the most momentous of battles, Idia reportedly knew that morale and belief

could be just as important as strength and skill, and the best way to inspire her side was through her knowledge of the supernatural. Over the centuries, many historians and historical accounts have underestimated or disregarded supposed magical prowess. Now, I personally am not saying magic is real, but the belief in magic played an immensely important role in eddo culture. Those who allegedly dealt in sorcery and witchcraft were both feared and respected. Magic provided a path for engaging and enterprising individuals to gain influence, especially women. Female priestesses, diviners, and masters of the metaphysical reportedly commanded clout that was often equal to or greater than their male counterparts.

Historically, there have obviously been countless examples of notable figures being accused of sorcery or witchcraft as a means of undermining them. This was certainly the case in multiple European cultures in the early 16th century. But interestingly, modern sources argue it was the opposite in Benin at that time. Instead of a charismatic woman having to passively endure slanderous paranormal labels, she could often proactively espouse a supernatural identity as a way to boost her social standing. Idiya evidently tried to lean into that narrative as much as possible, and crucially accounts that quickly marginalize her purported supernatural skills or dismiss them as irrational superstition often miss the most important part.

Idia made everyone else around her believe that she was adept at magic, and the prestige she derived from that underpinned almost every move she made. A classic example of this was Idia's handling of a potentially disastrous juncture in the Eda War. In 1515, fresh from their successful but very costly conflict with Arruhuan's forces, Oba as CGA's army was depleted and exhausted, As the soldiers then prepared to fight the invading army from the Ida kingdom as it closed in on Benin City, in Ibis, a bird often thought to be a dramatic omen, flew overhead, unleashing a chilling, loud squawk. As CGA's diviners took this to mean certain defeat and advised him to retreat.

But Idia had other ideas. She had joined her son on the best. battlefield bringing along her own army. Although they too were weary and bloodied, Idia was not one to be undone by a portentous bird. Her solution? Have the ibis shot. ECEGA followed that advice, and he and his mother's combined forces went on to win their battle and defend their lands.

According to some modern experts' assessments, what may seem like a simple act, actually speaks volumes about Idia's impact. Had anyone of lesser supernatural prowess, Esegier included, suggested such a brash move, the soldiers likely wouldn't have supported it so enthusiastically. Only the most magically accomplished person in the realm was worth following into war after so confidently tempting fate.

To even more deeply understand how Idia command, handed such a level of reverence, we must rewind back to 1504 when she was hiding in that sacred shrine. She had already utilized her political, militaristic, and supernatural savvy to great effect. But could these attributes help her pass the stiffest test of all? Could she manage to save her own life? According to long-standing tradition, Idia was supposed to be ritualistically killed since her son had officially become

the 16th oba of the kingdom of Benin. But as many oral histories chronicle, she chose a strategic hiding place, an exclusive shrine in the high-ranking chief's palace in an exclusive neighborhood of Old Benin City. Although this meant she was basically laying low in the lion's den, the exclusivity of the shrine and supposed help from an allied chief bought Idiotime while her son, the new Oba, quickly changed the rules.

He overturned the matricidal custom and created a new official title for his mother, EA Oba, which literally means mother of the Oba. Over time, the EAOBA was commonly condensed to one word, Yoba. This term has most often been equated to the role of queen mother in European monarchies, although some historians argue that the title transcended its derivation, and that an Ioba was more than just an oba's mother. She was a unique type of ruler and spiritual leader. Idia seemingly knew that so boldly upending tradition was a big swing and that she needed a compelling way to sell everyone on the idea.

That is where the legendary womb of Orhwe concept came in. Orhwe refers to a ceremonial white chalk used in Edo culture to symbolize faith, goodness, and divine presence. Sometimes the word is translated to mean God is here. This reference to the divine is crucial because according to custom, a prince went through something of a metaphysical transformation when becoming an oba. He not only became the official leader of the kingdom of Benin and its people, he essentially also became a spiritual focal point akin to a deity. The longer answer to why an Oba was traditionally expected to allow the highest-ranking chiefs to sacrifice his own mother pertain to that.

Prior to her son being crowned, a mother exerted a natural maternal authority over him. This relationship was fundamental in preparing the future ruler, especially for Asigia, who never would have become Oba otherwise. but, as some scholars contend, this royal familial bond created a sort of paradox once a son took on a divine dimension. Granted, on a cynical, practical level, many of the power-hungry chiefs probably wanted an Oba's mother out of the way, so she couldn't meddle in whatever schemes they were up to. But in a more macro sense, such a sacrifice purportedly rectified. the philosophical issue of how a godlike ruler could possibly continue to coexist with his mortal mother and longtime superior, albeit in an extremely brutal way.

Idia, however, devised a simple and elegant solution. As scholarly analysis of Edo legend has shown, Idia determined that if she couldn't live on as the mortal mother of a divine son, then she would just have to go through her own holistic transmutation. After all, Idia had allegedly been using the arcane arts since before marrying Oba Azolua, and her magical abilities were rumored to have only increased since then. In the lead-up to her son becoming the new Oba, Idia reportedly pushed the narrative that she and her womb of Orhue were so transcendent that she was able to birth a son who became a divine ruler despite numerous obstacles.

In what now comes off like a savvy PR strategy, Idia also ensured that her contributions in advising Oba Ozu Lua, her husband, uncertain domestic and foreign affairs. training his heir and strengthening the position of the royal family, were portrayed to both the nobility and the larger populace as being incredibly beneficial to the kingdom. Along the way, she constantly linked all of these feats to her magical prowess. Therefore, by the time Idia had to hide in a shrine while her son attempted to change the rules, the idea of her staying on as IA. Oba,

seemingly came off as less unthinkably radical and more like a fittingly extraordinary destiny for an extraordinary woman. It still must have been a tense time since all of Idiya's royal mother predecessors had lost their lives, even though many of them surely had extremely close bonds with their sons. But whether it was the culmination of years of strategic maneuvering

or a defining moment in her supernatural fate, Idia resoundingly prevailed. Oh, and for good measure, she made sure that her new position came with her very own palace, one that annexed much of the one used by the city's highest-ranking chiefs, her would have been executors.

To top it off, her lavish new residence included her beloved shrine. One of Idia's primary responsibilities and passions as Yoba was to commission Benin City's finest sculptors, weavers, and metalworkers. This gave her immense creative control over the artistic pieces that would represent her and her family to her subjects and to future generations. And so it seems unlikely that Idia would ever choose to prominently highlight any details of her reign or her son's. reign if they recalled events or actions that she didn't feel legitimately proud of. For example, her decision to incorporate robust renderings of her forehead scars on a pair of

expertly carved ivory masks seems indicative of a desire to proactively celebrate features that were iconic of both her appearance and her persona-defining supernatural mythology. Ultimately, a great deal of Ida's current legacy is based on the history of Benin art. Her likeness was used in elegant brass sculptures, which are often collectively and somewhat erroneously called the bronzes of Benin or Benin bronzes, as well as ornate ivory masks, pendants, carved tusks, and other adornments for ancestral altars, As covered in more detail in our prior episode on the Kingdom of Benin, many of these pieces were looted by the British military

when they pillaged Benin City in 1897. To this day, many of these pieces have not been returned to the Edo people and continue to be held by entities such as the British Museum and the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, despite repeated calls for them to be repatriated. Thanks to the fine craftsmanship and tumultuous ownership battle over these works, as well as the associated cultural legends, rituals, and commemorative dances, Ida's face has become one of the most recognizable in African history.

In addition to her image being preserved through art, her achievements live on within the title of Ioba. Thanks to her, the role became a human. hugely influential one, with subsequent Iobas acting as both Queen Mothers in an emblematic sense and political leaders with wide-ranging official duties. According to some scholars, the paradigm shifting custom of elevating royal mothers to the position of Ioba mitigated countless bloody succession crises. Knowledgeable Iobas helped ensure that power transferred smoothly from one leader to the next, especially if a new leader was particularly young and or an ioba needed to temporarily

take charge, quite the turnaround from victims of matricide to esteemed integral members of Benin's governance strategy. In some ways, Idiah's physical features and the heightened myths about her became far more famous than her overall real-life biography. On one hand, that seems like a shame. Leading historians have spoken of the need for more research and more appreciation for Idia the person and historical figure, not the myth. On the other hand, some scholars point out that it's worth considering these specific ways in which art and personal identity were historically embedded into Benin culture. Works of art were expressly intended to be coupled with engaging oral histories, and Idia herself seemed to have grasped the power of that pairing.

Furthermore, to fulfill the dynamic role of Iuba, Idia essentially had to relinquish some of her personal history for the sake of becoming a transcendent figure and constitutionally securing her son's power through a perceived divine connection. It's the same thing with most monarchs around the world. You stop being a person and start being a symbol. As author, historian, and artist Nkiru Nzegwu, so intriguingly put it, quote,

On ascension to the office, and Iuba metamorphosizes into a boundless fluid state in which she assumes, embodies, and becomes the collective histories of past occupants, of the office, as well as the spiritual mother of all Edo people. End quote. And so, to get the best overall sense of who Eidia was, maybe it's worth trying to drill into the details in search of the realistic truth,

while also experiencing her story as intended across Edo generations, by taking in the art and the myths, along with the spoken legends. That's the extraordinary story of Idiya, but stick around after a brief sponsor break to hear one more example of the first ever Yobah's superlative people skills. You can have opinions, you can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become. when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights

to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the eye-heartedly.

Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Readers, Katie's finalists, publicists. We have an incredible new episode this week for you guys. We have our girl Hillary Duff in here, and we can't wait for you to hear this episode. They put on Lizzie McGuire at 2 a.m. Video on Demand. This guy's bobo-b-bub-2-A-Mu-A-Mu-A-Mu-W Whatever time it is. A wild, a wild batch you were with. It was like a first, like, closet moment from me where I was like, I don't feel like she's hot,

like the rest of that room. No, no, no. I was like, she's beautiful. But I'm appreciating her in a different. way than these boys are. I'm not like, but listen to Los Coleristas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. If you are a founder or a freelancer

or the friend who always says, hey, you know what, what if I started that? This is for you. I'm telling you I had nothing to my name. I didn't know a single person in New York. And somehow I'm dressed by Oscar DeLorenda walking down that red carpet. This month, we sit down with entrepreneurs and creators who actually did it,

who turned the scary leave into a business, a paycheck, and a life they are proud of. Direct center of our happiness or our regrets is whether or not we're taking action on the things that matter to us. They're not selfish. They're so important. They actually lead to our greatest contributions because when we're living fulfilled, we actually show up better everywhere.

We lead better. We're better friends. We're better relationships and collaborators and all those things because we have passion about the things we're doing. If you're trying to build something of your own this year, join us in these conversations that will make your business. braver and smarter with your money. Listen to Dos Amigos as part of the Michael Tutta podcast network available on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. One interesting piece of how IDIHia and her son are depicted in contemporary art is that some of the art makes references to episodes in which a CGA was mentally incapacitated briefly and his mother, Ida, ruled the kingdom on his behalf. According to a few historians and art researchers, Idiya's mission of trying to emotionally and behaviorally guide her son through bouts of what were described as, quote, madness or derangement could be considered a precursor to later forms of psychotherapy. It's once again fascinating to note that in overseeing the crafting of royal artwork,

Idia chose to include visual references to her son's psychological struggles, especially given how mental health issues were stigmatized in many kingdoms at that time and through today. These creative expressions prove invaluable insight into a complex royal bond, and Idia's willingness to be fairly open about it. As Oba and Ioba, Asigia and Ida almost, certainly authored sinister acts of violence and revenge. However, Idiya's seemingly patient treatment of her son, while he was mentally incapacitated, reveals additional dimensions to their personalities and unique relationship. The sincerity and sensitivity that certain pieces of Benin art

reputedly signify stand in stark contrast to the hyperbolic depictions of many 16th century European visitors who were quick to write off Eusegier as the barbaric tyrant of a bloodthirsty society and his mother as the overly superstitious and or subservient queen mother. All to say, while Idia consistently used her political wisdom and magical aura to great effect, arguably her underlying emotional intelligence was every bit as crucial in preserving her life, her family, and her culture. That and her extraordinary knack for creating an entrancing tale. Noble Blood is a production of I-Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is hosted by me, Dana Schwartz. Writers for Noble Blood are Hannah Johnston,

Hannah Zwick, Paul Jaffe, Natasha Lasky, and me, Dana Schwartz. The show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk and Nome's Gripen with supervising producer Rima Il Kali and executive producers Aaron Manky, Trevor Young, and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other. plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions, you can have like a strong

stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's big money players and IHeart podcast presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school.

Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a bogo.

Well, then you got it. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Readers, Katie's finalists, publicists. We have an incredible new episode this week for you guys. We have our girl Hillary Duff in here and we can't wait for you to hear this episode. They put on Lizzie McGuire 2am, video

on demand. This guy's... 2 a.m. Whatever time it is. Lizzie McGuire and I'm like... Wild, a wild batch you were with. It was like a first closet moment for me where I was like... You're like, I don't feel like she's hot like the rest of that. No, no, no. I was like, she's beautiful. But I'm appreciating her in a different way than these boys are. I'm not

like... But... Listen to Los Gillespieist us on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.