Nobody Panic - Bonus Episode: How To Freeze Your Eggs - Part 2

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

After recording part 1, Stevie was inspired to freeze her eggs and, perhaps unsurprisingly if you’ve heard Stevie talk about things on the podcast before, found the whole thing emotionally overwhelming. To highlight how individual the process can be, she talks about her experience (and cries a bit) (but is ultimately ok!).Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Aniya Das for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true, Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. This is part two of a two-part episode. Le part two. Leaparte de.

Leauzeuf. Oh. Oseuf. What's cold? Show. Oet, Lezoff. Trope show. Where are the eggs?

Too cold. Where are the eggs too cold? Where are they? Hello, everybody. So this episode is a part two to the how to freeze your eggs. And now that we've both been through it, we felt we could bring a bigger and broader experience to the whole thing and talk about everybody's experiences.

So consider these two episodes to be a companion, two companion pieces. Absolutely. And in a minute we're going to begin the journey, but just to tell you where I'm at is that we're at, we are recording, of course, in the Plosive offices. And we started at 1 o'clock, and I arrived for the first time ever on time.

On time. And why did we start at 1 o'clock? Because off menu needed the room ahead of us. Of course they did. And we said, absolutely no bother. we're free and easy girls, we'll come in a bit later. And I wasn't early, I was only five minutes to one. That has never happened. It's never happened, has it?

Ever. It was, I got, I left the house too early, and I bicycled here gently. And then I came in, Ben, our lovely producer, met me at the door. And in the sort of small, enclosed hallway bit of the door said, who the guest was who had just been on off menu. It was somebody, somebody so famous. Oh, yeah. And just such a surprise.

And I said, I said, shall I wait outside? I said, I'll leave. That was my, and then he said, I think that would be weirder. Just, I think that's, and he was so calm and cool. And he was like, just come in. And then I picked up Toast, Ben, the wonderful dog. And then I said, Toast, you protect me. And it is, again, a crazy thing.

And a lot of pressure for the dog. Then I entered. Then Ed and James were just stood there chatting to this very famous person in the middle. And I just said, I just sort of put my head down and went around them. And James and Ed said, hello to me. And I said, hi, guys. And then they said, this is a very famous man. And then the famous man looked at me and said, hey, I'm, insert his name.

And I then said, hello. And then I said his whole name. And then I just sort of buried my head in the dog and ran out. Yes. And then I had to have a go and have a walk of the block because I felt so great. So the shock. How much I embarrassed myself. You didn't.

I did, TV. I think of the range of responses that man has had to Tim. Like, he will have had. a million different responses. I honestly don't think you've done anything. But I wanted to showcase myself at my best and just be like, hey man.

And then... I think if you did on Hey Man, I think that would be weird. Yeah. I think you did a good thing, actually. I think you said, because in what you said, you acknowledged that obviously

you know who he is and he's a famous person without being like, ah! Yeah. And then you took yourself out out of the situation. Yeah.

You know, just went behind a wall and stood there silently till he left. I'm behind one of those pillars that are really small. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clutching a dog. Everyone can see me.

Me just repeating the interaction over and over again in my head. Anyway, so sorry, that's out of my body now. And I'm ready. Thank you, that's gone. Thank you for holding space for me. And now ready to hold space for you. Hello, everybody. I know we've just said hello.

And there's been a small pause. I've cried. We're both in tears. And we've had a little chat and we're ready to pop back in again. Are we? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I am.

Yeah. We're raw. We're vulnerable. Yes. We're free. We're honest. We've had a little cry. We think this is an important episode because it's important to, well, we've

both done it now and it's important to see as many responses. And also I think it's important to know that my episode that you've just heard was recorded several months after me doing it. And so the hormones had left my body. I'd had a lot of time. I hadn't really told anybody that I was doing it and I'd had a lot of time to like, mentally and emotionally and hormonally process and to think through what I wanted to say and I'd had a lot of time with it and we stevie has is but hours i'm in the middle of my

egg retrieval she's currently in her egg retrieval she's riddled with hormones and there's a lot going on and we've had a lovely deep honest chat and now we're feeling we're feeling ready to get into it because you didn't want to i think it's easy we've talked about how i'm good at being like well, ha ha, I'm very like, I cried from start to finish. And then we're all like, ha ha. I cried from start to finish. And actually the reaction, the crying might be the same. It's just the thing of like, if someone's like, ha ha, I'm crying all the time.

And someone being like, yes, but should we unpack the idea of like crying from start to finish for 14 days and having all these intense feelings and whispering things like, mother, I'm cold. And like, there's a lot going on actually. And just because I was able to be like, yes, done. And it doesn't mean that the things weren't big or the. that these experiences aren't going to be big. And everyone's feelings are valid and true and real. Thank you. And I think the hormones are like a really, really important to talk about

and the feelings of it and all of this stuff coming up. And I think it's why we said at the beginning of the first episode to be like, there's a lot of this is a big, loaded, heavy conversation. Fertility is such a massive huge issue. Even if you are really confident what it is that you do or don't want, there's so much going on. And your moments away from crying at any point. Yes.

And everyone's journey is really personal. and stuff comes up that you didn't even know was in there. So, Stevie. Hello. Hello. I am out of the hormonal phase, just, but I, yes, I was not aware, tip number one, I was not aware that after your egg retrieval, you basically are hormonal until you have your period. And those hormones are just as sort of erratic, make you just say,

as erratic as they did during the actual injecting phase. I think it's important to remember that like those, you are being, you are trying to like trick every egg follicle into making an egg and you are pumping yourself full of the super smart and super speedy shark hormones. And, you know, if your periods are already a very emotionally fraught time for you, throwing yourself full of, you know, 20 times, 100 times, somebody hasn't done their mathematical research, 1,000 times the amount of progesterone, if you already suffer hormonally is obviously going to send you out of whack. Yeah.

Like wild. Yeah. In a way. And did you, I mean, spoiler, did you find the hormones a lot? No, they're fine, mate. No, yeah. Sorry, I think for you, you were so scared about the needles. Injections.

That was your big. That was your big. Injections and procedure. Practical business. So Tessa has reminded me that when we were doing the previous episode, I think I was obviously so focused on every time he said needle or egg retrieval or procedure. I was like, you're very scared about the sedation. And didn't fully engage.

Or no, thought I thought I'd fully engaged with all the stuff around it. It was like, yeah, I've been hormonal before. And also, okay, yeah, I'll be crazy. And I was saying to my partner, like, I'm going to be wild. And then the reality of what that actually feels like. And also, as you've said, the certain stages and elements of the process, which, you know, they can't know how many you're going to get until you get them, but it can look bad at some points and it can look like you're maybe not going to get many.

And also as well, I spoke to a friend recently while I was going through it all and my friend didn't get any X at the end of it and then tried again and got like two. And that's a very low amount and a lot of money and a lot of time and effort. And I think I didn't engage with the possibility of, it not working out, sort of at all. I was like, well, it's fine because I'm under 35. I'm the right age for it just, I'll get in there, but our bodies are not mathematical equations. And also, the thing that I kept thinking about all the time was that, like, I was doing it for as an insurance policy, and then it didn't help that my doctor was on maternity leave the entire time. So I didn't

really have anyone to talk to who could give me a answer about certain things. Like, when you're saying this amount or when you're saying, you know, I hope we get the numbers, but it doesn't look like we will. What does that mean? Do you actually mean that I will only get to? What are the things that I can be doing to help myself? Or like, there was just a lot of like documents and things that I find overwhelming to read. You know, like they email you all the attachments.

And you're like, yeah, yeah, cool. I can't read an email when you're panicked. You can't read any of the information. But yeah, it's all of the joined, the spaces between the actual elements of the process that I found so hard. It actually meant like I couldn't like work. I'm going to cry. No, that's okay. No, it's fine. So I actually, thankfully, didn't have any work on because the lady that gives me auditions and left my agency. And also I'd kind of booked time off for certain things. And so I didn't have to do any work. But I still couldn't reply to emails or like

do anything and it wasn't like the few days before your period because my my friend who did it said oh it's sort of like just being quite hung over like for you know the whole time and and then i think you said about how it feels like you're about to start your period and you know that that that worst day where like you're like oh i feel shit like that and and i felt like i've never felt in my whole life like and also i think you have any mental health problems that is the thing i think is the most big thing that i want to talk about because i'm not going to talk about a lot but like if you have any I'm crying, you can hear me, but any mental health problems whatsoever,

like everything may come out. And the thing that I struggled with was, I felt like it was, I want to also say it was worth it. Like, I do feel like it was worth it. I didn't get as many as I wanted. I do feel glad and proud and happy that I did it and relieved that I did get the A result.

But a thing that I didn't expect to feel was that when you're in the midst of all of those hormones, and say you're not dealing with it very well, It made me go like, oh God, I don't think I could be pregnant. I don't think I could. Well, I'm going to get post-nated depression. I'm going to have psychosis and think my baby is an orange and peel it. You know?

Yeah. Like, and so I, that, but that is obviously lots of hormones in your body, but it's only until after it finished. And it was like, but that's not the same hormones as when you are pregnant. And it's not the same experience as when you're going through pregnancy. It's very different trying to get all your orchards to grow as it is creating and building a baby inside your body over numerous trimesters. And I know that now.

And I just wanted to say that so that when you're going into it, if you are deciding to do it, that you aren't like, oh, no, this is me for, this is me me for nine months. And then obviously then the psychosis will come. And then I'll peel the baby. And I'll peel my baby. So, but no matter how many times people said that to me, I couldn't hear them because I was in a hormonal state.

And similarly to when, you know, you're told how many follicles you've got, the start, you know, a certain amount of them will start growing and responding to the hormones. And then a certain amount of those will produce eggs. I had like 22 follicles or whatever to play with and only like five even grew a bit at all. And then like two were the right size. Because, yeah, because it'd been a few months past, you'd sort of said, too, were over the line but all I heard was well she got 11 so that's good you know and then like I say all your logic goes out of the window but you can't tell it's gone out of the window so when the lady told

me that I had to you can see a little graph and it can see all the little dots and all my dots were like they haven't moved apart from six had moved a bit and then out of those six two had gone to a proper size and they hadn't got bigger for a while so I was like and I said to the nurse you know they haven't got bigger for a while so and she's like yeah it's unlike likely that they will have. I was like, okay, okay. And then I was like, and what about all the ones that are on the ground? And she's like, I'm afraid they haven't grown at all.

And that had been like, that's like you've had three scans or something. And this is like the last one before you kind of go into the trigger injection process, the kind of end push. And I, so it was like, okay, so if not, there's no, well, there's no hope I'll even get more than six at absolute max. And I was sort of panicking. And I looked up loads of stuff. it's so hard to look at research that is accurate for this

because a lot of the research is done by fertility clinics that want you to pay for it. There is an element that I didn't know and didn't think because I didn't look at anything because I was too scared. Don't listen to us and then just do it. Like have a look around and read around and just look at different clinics because I just went for one because I was like, I don't want to think about it.

That's horrible, but I would have gone with the same one probably. But like I just was angry at myself that I hadn't used my own independent thought like I would normally do because I was so scared. And so you felt that it put pressure on you because I'd just become like, okay, Tessa, I'll do it. And it was like, I'm having a bad time, Tessa, Tessa, Tessa. You're like, well, I'm not your own freeze. I told you. I'm like, no, Tessa, help. And so, yeah, so I then when I was told the information, I was like, oh, it feels like it's sort of slipping away from me.

Like this is not how it's meant to be. kept saying to my partner, but it's meant to be an insurance policy. This is not meant to be like this. I'm not doing all this, spending all this money for nothing. I thought, I'll do one round and then I'll leave it to the Lord, as I think was our phrase. I said, I was like, I can't leave it to the Lord. Like, I didn't, I suddenly didn't want to leave it to the Lord. I was like, no, I've got, I've going to have to do it again. I'm going to go bankrupt. I'm going to do these cycles until I'm dead. Like, I have to keep going. And you get this kind of, you have all these kind of thoughts. And I was desperately trying to find solid information as to the efficacy of it. And it's so hard to find

stuff. But also it's very difficult because very much, so it's very much sort of marketed as insurance policy to everyone I saw was my age year older in that room. Like, you know, it's obviously not. It's marketing to all women. And if you're 25, that is the ideal time. But how many 25 year olds will drop six grand on freezing their eggs or even think about that? You're 25. And everyone, want to speak to who's a friend of mine, they're in the 30s to mid-30s, going, I think I'm going to freeze my eggs. We didn't talk about it when we're in our late 20s. Why would we? Why would you? Yeah. But that is an age where it's very unlikely that you'll get the amount that you would need for it to be an actual proper insurance policy. Fifty-eight percent of women

that get 20 eggs go on to have a live-boat that increases your chances by 58%. If you get 10, it's 24 percent. Then it starts to get very, very low. So if you've got five, it's like 9% of something. But that is still, all you need is one egg. And that's what everyone kept saying, all you need is one egg. And when you're in the midst of it, you're like, what do you mean?

I need this one egg, but obviously more is better. And they all say, you know, the more eggs you get, the better. So it can feel, I started to sort of feel like it was like this big scam. It isn't. But it is something that if you're thinking,

if you're thinking about it, do look into those statistics and really think about whether it is worth it for you. and you might just want to get pregnant. Because if you have one follicle that delivers one mature egg every single month, you will get pregnant just as easily as somebody who has 20 follicles that are delivering mature eggs each month.

Because it's not like they're all delivering them at the same time. But the process of freezing can make you feel and be confronted by how dead your follicles are. Absolutely. But I think, so for me personally, like there was no question of me being pregnant. And I think this process was purely about giving me my mind back that I had lost for the last like year and a half, maybe even two years to like I couldn't think straight. And so for me it was like if this is the cost of me being able to think and that I don't even want children, but I don't want that door to have closed on me without me knowing. And the incredible stress of that sort of like the door going down on the Titanic in the boiler room. and being like, do you want to leave or do you want to stay in the boiler room?

And me being like, what, it has to go down now, does it? I was like, I can't bear it. And I felt like I was in the boiler room. And so I was like, if this is the cost, like, part of me is like, some of them are in the freezer. And that's that. Absolutely. And so I think it's not that question of like, I think it's a different kettle of fish for people who are like, I definitely want to baby. And people who are like, I actually want to get on with my life, but I don't want to kick myself in the future.

Yeah. I like two different things. And so it's a different thing of being like, if only got one follicle, maybe just get pregnant. It's like, again, like a whole new world of, you know, because if that's what they'd said to you, you'd be like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, yes, Jesus Christ. Also, no, and I'm the same I don't want it.

It's because I was speaking to a friend who did want children, but didn't have a partner. So I was like, well, I'll freeze my eggs. And then, you know, in the future, hopefully. And so then, and she, it didn't work out for her. And so that feeling of like, well, it'll be an insurance policy. Yeah. When that is taken away,

actually felt for her, I felt halfway through my, my, my, like, I was like, this is actually a worse feeling than if I was just blissfully unaware being like, I'm the boiler, I'm in the boiler room, fine. But that's like, exactly how it felt being like, you actually go in there for that moment. And when they said, come in, on my very first day after my fertility, MOT, had all the tests, they put the wand up my front bottom. And then I was waiting in the foyer. And they said, you're in next. And I actually said, I can't come in. Like, I don't, I'd actually don't want to, across this door. I go in that room. And this. is the point I stay out here, I'm blissfully unaware, I go in there, this is the first time they say,

do you know you actually haven't even got a woo? You've got an inverted penis. How did you not know? They say like, oh, heads up, you're baron. And that's what's so horrible about your 30s is like crossing into this bit where you're not allowed to be blissfully unaware anymore. You have to make these sort of decisions and you have to cross that door. And it was horrendous being like this moment of like, you have to go in now. And you have to be brave and you have to go in because this is. is a thing that's now in your head of you have you have to you have to know yeah this point like because the blissfully unaware train has now left the station yeah it's running out of of steam the old train it can't you know you know you know soon it's yeah like it's it you're no long

you're not you're not in your 20s you get the train has left the building and so it's like okay we're here now we have to we have to have all the information and yeah and so I guess for a person who was like I really want kids but I wish I had a partner maybe it's like maybe you just do it do it right now you know like and it's like these are huge these are huge big things to be dealing with. And it feels really, really unfair. And again, it's me saying about like just weeping the entire time and shouting, why must the women suffer of being like,

what unnecessary horrible, big questions to put on a person in a very short window of time who, you know, has got so much other stuff going on in their life. And then it's like, how dare you make the doors on the boiler room go down on me? Yeah. I haven't done anything wrong. Why is it happening? I've done anything wrong.

Yeah. And there are people with with penises walking around. Robert De Niro just had a baby. At 45 going, I think I might want kids. Robert De Niro is 79 years old. Yeah, and fair play to the lad. But that's not... I'd give him a child.

So would I. I'm one of my frozen ones, De Niro. Actually, yeah. It'll be gold. But it's not fair that Robert De Niro goes to have a kid at 79. No. Like, none of this is... It's not right.

It's not right. And it's not good. Like, it's not... These aren't fair things. And suddenly you're, like, carrying, like, the enormity of, like, the world's... fertility on your shoulders and crossing the room and then crying at the woman and being like, how dare Robert De Niro have a child? How dare he? But I've got six follicles. Just to explain people about what that graph looks like that they show you, it's a white screen.

It's a white screen and the nurses are lovely, but often when you ask questions, I be like, that's for the doctor. And so then you're like, explain more about the things. And so once you've had your scan and you can kind of see on the scan the follicles and you can sort of see that they're counting them, have like all these little dots. The higher the dot, the further along the follicle is in the process. So along the lower axis is just the date. We're just traveling along by time, date, date by day. And along the y-axis or the up-axis is... Size. Size. Sexiness. So obviously, and then there's a big red line in the middle and you want as many over the line as possible. Yes. And the first day, they're like, so here they are. And by, and we're going to get them

all over these, just red line by this day. And we're like, okay. That's fine. Saddle up, boys. let's go. And everyone always says you're doing so well, you're doing so well, you're doing so well. Until they don't say that. And then about sort of five, six, seven, eight days in, you start being like, those dots, they may not be moving, huh? Yes. And then there is this final scan where this is the last time you're going to look at the dots and they just point at like two forlorn dots over the line. And you're like, sorry, and those are the only, and those are the only big ones. And also sometimes, so like sometimes maybe lots of your dots have moved up, but a lot of them haven't gone over the line. Or sometimes not, many of your dots have even moved on.

And that was where I was, because I was like, when people that I knew who had done it were like, oh, well, I didn't have many over the line, I was like, yeah, but some of your dots had fucking moved. Like, because they were all, they had just stayed on the bottom line. That was my big sort of like mental breakdown, because they kept saying, well, we'll see how it goes and hopefully we'll get the numbers.

And we're being like, what do you mean? Like, my dots are on the floor. How do you propose we get these numbers? But the thing is they weren't wrong. They weren't wrong. They were right. We'll just see. We'll just see.

We'll let your body do the work. We'll trust the science. What I think would have been helpful to know is that, and what if you're listening and you do it to know is that that kind of final trigger injection that we've spoken about. And those extra days between and like up until then between the scan and the trigger injection and then between the trigger injection and the retrieval, it's like a final push that can give you more than you expected. but it also can not work. And so just really having a plan, and by plan I mean like what you're going to do that week, how you're going to deal with if this doesn't give you what you want to do. Because it's not the end of the world.

It doesn't mean that you can't get pregnant. And that's something that like when I was in the depth of it, I was just like, what do you mean? Shut up. But that is true. It just means that your body isn't producing super ovulated eggs all at the same time to be frozen. It doesn't mean that you're not producing mature eggs every month or enough to get, to have a, have a baby. I think if the nurse had said, well, you've got enough time and this injection will help, I would have been like, okay, well, I'm just going to really like gun for it

for the last four days, but she didn't. She said, no, it's not looking good. I was like, oh, I said, so does it look like I'm going to get two? And she said, yes. I said, right. And I started crying and she was like, we'll freeze however many we get, even if there's only one. And I was like, okay. And then I left. And then that was it. So I was like, right, well, she thinks I'm going to get what, you know, because you're kind of hanging on to everything.

And I'm not saying the nurse was wrong or like whatever. Like she deals with like a million crying, 35-year-old women every day. But that piece of information was probably somewhere in the many documents that they sent. But there's so many things to read and like videos to watch. watch and you're not really in the headspace for doing that when you're like, you know, you could. It's very easy, I think, to catastrophize in that situation. And as with any sort of medical procedure, someone could talk to you for 10 minutes,

but they mention the word cancerous. And so you're like, sorry. And surely that's the only word I'm taking. Yeah, that's the only word I'm taking. So it's very easy, I think, in that moment to be like, you know, not as many eggs has gone over the line, but we still, you know, whatever she might have said to you in that thing. And then to be like, this is this sole piece of information that I can take with me. because that's the worst bit and that's all that anyone ever takes in a medical situation.

Yeah. And as you know, me in numbers, like, I've had to give the, my greatest friend and my greatest foe. How are they your friend? Friend, because I love them. Love numbers? I love quantifiable data. Like, I had to tell producer Ben to change the password for the nobody panic figures.

I wasn't looking at them all the time. They were like, that was a good episode, that did well. That sort of stuff. I don't know. It's like maths. I can't do anything with the numbers. I don't know if that's quantified data so much as that is like validation in the form of numbers. Yeah, well.

It's not like you're like, I had a couple of bangs on some statistics at the weekend, you know. You're not like. I'm looking at a number and going, that's a high number. I'm happy. Yeah. Or that's a low number. I'm very, I'm deeply unhappy. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So it was my crypt tonight being told that I had. So I think, I've got 10 to get. I want to get 10x. Great. Already you've set yourself up to fail. So don't do that.

Yeah. Even though they do keep saying 10 is what, like the optimum minimum. optimum, optimum, optimum, optimum. And also, like, then these little updates are going about like, here they are. And it's, I can see clearly what I'm aiming for and I'm failing. Listen, you know what? I should have been more on it with you about how much quantifiable number that were going to be experiencing and how much someone was going to point

to a literal graph at you and say to you clearly. It's the line of failure. That's a line of failure and that's where you are. And I think I hadn't realized just how much that was going to like touch your pure. nervous nerve, someone to point you at a screen and point to you and say, that's you and it's in that section called failure. Like, that's really, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's on me and I shouldn't.

It's not. It's on every, it's on, it's on the way the world works and the system. And also, God bless the nurses, that is the, that is the information. Like, they can't give it in any other way. They can't be like, here is a selection of woodland animals. Well, I wonder. You're the raccoon. I wonder, actually, if it is helpful, there should be an option called.

I don't wish to know. Yeah, it should be called. like blissfully unaware maybe maybe there should be a session called like blind ride it blind raw dog raw dog the egg where they say it's going okay and they just keep saying that maybe they just say we're not telling you yes because this is the thing that gets me it doesn't really matter because me knowing does not change anything well what that's why I said to you post them pointing at the screen and saying you're a failure is to say you were like that's it it hasn't worked and I said you haven't actually come out of sedation you haven't done it mate you've done it yeah you've got

Four days to go. But what you're saying to me is, objectively, it hasn't worked. And I was like, that's not true. You haven't actually crossed that bridge yet. We don't know what's going to happen. And also I was like, you're taking it so seriously. You're not drinking. You spat that red wine at a man after you accidentally drank.

You back into the glass. Yeah, they went a bit, went on a man. Bit went on a man. Yeah. And so, like, you're taking this so seriously and everything else that you're doing. You've done so, so well. A positive mental attitude, like, is, it doesn't hurt. You know, just to be like, let's think positively for these eggs.

Let's let them, you know, let's try and make, let's try and cook some positive kids in there. Yes. And actually maybe that should be part of the process is that like, let's just think positively and let's cross that bridge at the end if you have to come out of a station and be like, we were too, we were too positive. You know, like your mental attitude through it, knowing, pointing at the screen and knowing where you're at is maybe not a helpful thing.

Yeah. And you do just need to go in completely blind and they shouldn't tell you where you're at and be like, there's no way of us knowing. Maybe that should be their thing. Yeah. Even though they're like relentlessly measuring them. They should just be like, there's nothing we can. there's nothing we can do.

We simply don't know. We simply don't know until that time. And then, of course, we would make that moment when you find out the number really like a lovely pleasant surprise or really devastating. But then it's contained within one moment, one day. Yeah, it's one big day. Rather than 14 days of like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, I think that's a big part of it is like 14 days of this like of processing,

of dealing with it, of being like my follicles on enough, like all of this. Maybe it is just like you come out of sedation. They give you another little shot of morphine. Yeah. They chill you right out and they tell you your number. It's like we don't, we simply can't. know until it comes out. Yeah.

And maybe that would be more positive. So anyone, that's an option. Well, you could pick to not look, I suppose. The one thing you can't do, which is what I tried to do, which is when the doctor comes and explains what they're going to do during the procedure. She's like, okay, so we're going to take a needle. I was like, I actually don't want to know. And she's like, you have to listen because you have to sign the consent form.

Oh, they really let me sort of check out of that. Oh, for God's sake. Did we go? Did you do, do you? So you say, I want this. Someone says, you can't have it. I say, nah. And I just say, I'm not listening.

Right. I did say, as a joke, can I sit at my finger as in my ears? And she said, I think that's illegal. And I had to sign a form and it said, like, very clearly all of the, like, possible things that could go wrong with it and stuff. And I was like, I don't want to. Well, that's the thing. You just go, oh, and you just sign it. Yeah, that's true.

Listen, I'm raw dog in life over here. You just don't check anything. Just don't check anything. I'm simply blissfully unaware of risk at all time. Yeah. Don't check. Also, I did find it quite helpful as well. So you've got this sort of handler or the person

that you've kind of been dealing with the whole time. Yeah. Then they kind of like take a back seat when the process actually starts because you got, you know, nurses and whatever. But I sort of went back to Gemma to be like, hello, I'm don't, I'm, I'm, I'm, wah! And she was like, okay. And then she chatted it on the phone to me a bit.

And yes, again, very vague. And everything is so frustratingly vague. Like, we can't know. And you, and it's a good. It doesn't necessarily mean this, but it doesn't not. Okay, we've not learned anything here. But it was quite nice to do that. And I think you can maybe do that more than I did.

You can actually ask questions and go like, what does that mean, Gemma? You know? There's also a free, a counselling session included. There is, yes. But I would have to get offered it this time. Well, I think that's, again, a sort of thing that you might have to fight, not fight for a bit, but like to be like, ask for, yeah. Well, I did have therapy throughout it.

So, because I've got, you know, but maybe it would be good to talk to, like, the professional people who do. And even if your thing is simply like, I'm just feeling a lot of emotions, there's so much going on. Yeah. Yeah. I can well believe it.

Yes. So it's worth being like, I'm going to ask for that. I'm going to have it. It's included in the price. And just because you're like, but that should be for people going through something devastating. But no, it's for everyone. You're not taking away from people who need it, quote unquote, more than you by you having the 10 o'clock session.

That was always available for you, which is whether or not you take it. Yeah. The therapist is either going to be watering his bonsai or chatting to you. So you might as well. It's only one of two things. It's only options day to day. And every day he's like, God, I wish I had someone to chat. Bonzies.

Bonsi's blooming. God, it's lovely. So good. Yeah, so I think it would be worth going into it being like, I want to take all the things. I'm prepared for these big emotions. Yes. Yeah, I think that is like really the main thing. It's just to be really, really, really prepared to, if you have any mental health issues,

also like even if you don't, be really prepared to maybe have some issues. issues in this two weeks and that all of your kind of weirdnesses will come out and you may not because I didn't have any I didn't really get bloated or anything like at all but I did have like mad brain thing so like that's that was my way around but then you know the actual procedure was like an absolute dream I went to sleep and the best of my entire life and that's the thing I think you were so blinkers on focused on going into sedation yeah that a lot of stuff I think came as a big shock to you. Yes. When you were like, I thought needles would be my big thing.

And then the peeling the baby was like, you didn't even look at me. Hello. Hello. How are those needles going? One thing as well that would be good to do, which is I did accidentally and it really jared me up was about sort of a week before I started the whole process. I'd ordered loads of stuff like nice little. I ordered some face masks.

Then also like some other things and like just some pair of trousers. and like things, and then they all arrived like during the week. So it was like, oh, a little present from me. That was really nice. Yeah, lovely. And just like a lot of elasticated waistbands and like really comfortable tracksuits. So it's comfortable on your skin. That was very, very nice as well.

But yeah, the first part was way more informative in terms of the actual process. It's just, I just really wanted to have my home how like it can feel like it's not okay that you're having a bad time during it. And not just in a bad time. they're like, yeah, of course we're all going to have a bad time doing it. It's bad. But, like, you know, it can be really, really, really hard. And that is not that you're not doing it well or you've got some sort of weakness that

means that you've got, like, it is just really hard. And everybody that I've spoken to has gone like, oh my God, you're like, oh, God, I've heard it's awful. Right, okay, yeah. So it is like a very big thing. And be aware that, yeah, like work and other life events that happen within it can compound to the issue. It's very important that you choose a time because you can just pretty much begin as

and when you wish. Yeah. It was like, when I first, when I remember being like, when's your next appointment? And they were like, we can start tomorrow if you want. I was like, I don't know. Okay. Wow. Okay.

God. It's that you are totally in control of that time that you choose a time when like you're not trying to do anything. You're not going through something big. You're not moving house. You're not at work. You're not stressed out. And obviously you can't just all take off two weeks of work.

Willy nilly. But like just like when work is maybe not as stressful as it could be. and you've got the therapist, wedy and waiting. And you've got lovely things coming for you. And you're just being like, this is a experience that I'm going through eyes open. Yes. Heart's full.

Yeah. I'm ready for all the things that could surprise me through this. Yeah, because I think also another friend of mine who did it, you know, it was like the first friend who told me about it that made me go, oh, maybe I should do this. Was literally like, she's a director. And she's like, oh, yeah, I'm just on set the whole time. It's like, oh, okay.

So in my head I was like, well, she'd be on set at this point while I'm like on the floor. And that's, I think, a really, really important thing is it's so easy, even if you only heard like one person who's done it to be like, well, Lucy was fine. I don't know if his woman's name was Lucy. No, it wasn't. But like, it's really easy to be like, stupid so and so, you know. For me, Amy Hart on Love Island and be like, Amy Hart on Love Island managed to get 18, you know, like you mustn't judge yourself by anybody else's thing. It's just like you and your body going through something at your own speed. And we're so far behind on all sort of like women's health things of like the science of periods and hormones and all this sort of stuff because some people are like, I simply don't even realize I have a period.

And some people are like, I want to kill myself. And people are like, there's so much blood. I collapsed from blood loss. Yeah. And then everyone's like, yeah, periods. They're a bit tough. Like there's a parade coming to town. And like, we're, yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry, but I'm quoting directly from a Cotex advert that used to play in the 90s that you were like. And it was all like, don't let anything stop you. And you're like, some people have it so incredibly bad. They have to be hospitalized. And just because they have to be like, it's just been of blood. Get on with it. Like all good women.

They're being like, it actually not. It affects everybody so incredibly differently. And nobody is failing or winning in that chart. People are just doing their own thing. I don't think anyone should look at the screen. I really shouldn't look at the screen. I'm very glad we got to talk this through. Yes.

On air for the listeners. Absolutely. Because halfway through it, I thought it wasn't working. I was like, it's not working. We're going to have to do a part two because I'm having a terrible time. And we should do what happens when you failed and your eggs haven't frozen. And then Tess sent me a lovely email back. But then, as you said, you felt bad.

And that like I'd sort of been like, well, I've not done as well as you've done. Which sort of wasn't what I was thinking, but it did come across like that. And I think it's good to, yeah, to get it out and be like, it's just that it's just very different. And everybody has such a different. relationship to children and whether they want children as well. Like we both have the same overall thing. Like it's not for now, but maybe for the future,

so we're doing it for the future. But like drilling down into actually our individual feelings about being a mother or not being a mother is, will be completely different as well. And so that's in play too. And, you know, my periods are like two days. And I'm like, oh, ha-hoo, it's gone. Like, so I just didn't know what it would feel like to be like,

ho-ho, it's doing. Good Lord. Anyway, look. Yeah. I don't know if you said how many you got. They said two and I got eight, which was obviously so much more than I thought. I was so happy and immediately it was like,

great, I'm going to do it again and get 16. And then my partner had to be like, no. No, no, he didn't. He said maybe just give it a few days until the hormones have worn off. And then about a week later, I was like, yeah, I'm not doing that again. Ace is fucking fine.

But that's the thing you don't even know if you will need them. You know, that's the really important part of it. And so eight is actually a huge. It's a huge. It's a huge win. A huge win. A huge win.

Because it might be people listening being like, motherfucker, you got eight. Well, yeah, exactly. My friend got two

after three rounds, I think. And that's still like, you know, that is enough to continue and to maybe fertilize and to try. It's hard because obviously

at each stage, you know, you can lose them and you can do, but it's still enough to try. So however many you get is better than non, you know?

And if you get non, then that is like a fucking head fuck and you're just going to have, you just have to be really kind to yourself. and engage in the fact that that is a really stressful, upsetting thing to happen. And you have to do all of the things that you would do if anything else upsetting happen to you in your life of equal magnitude.

You know, like when someone close to you dies or something and you're like, well, you're not going to be like, well, come on, deal with it. You'd be like, no, I'm going to like talk to people. I'm going to maybe get some therapy. I'm going to talk to other people who have had a similar experience. All of those things. Don't just be like, okay, well, I suppose I'm stupid. Like, because it's, you know, we said before that it was really big stuff.

And then it wasn't until I did it. And I was like, oh, it's actually really big. I've never felt anything like this before. You know, because it's so huge. Okay, well, look, onwards. Have a nice time. God bless us all. You've done really well.

Thank you. Thanks. You did very well going through it. Yes. You did well going to the end. And you did well be honest and vulnerable. I cried. I cried in the bathroom a bit and then came back.

Yeah, good. Good. Good, actually. That is what I won from this working relationship. We've both are like to cry. We talk some stuff through. Listen, these are just two stable women. Listen, I'm being facetious there, but actually I think we are two stable women.

We're stable women. We're stable women. We are keeping this pony club camp alive. Freezing those horses. Come on. We've lost track of the metaphor. Yeah, I think we are doing really well. And we're talking through the truths.

We're doing it. We're doing it. I'm really proud of you. Thank you. I'm very proud of you as well. Thank you for helping me for this. persons. You're so welcome.

Okay. Bye everyone. Bye everyone.