Nobody Panic - How Not to be a Prude

Episode Date: May 31, 2022

Feel like you might be living life buttoned up to the neck in a Victorian shroud and covering up people's ankles when you see them exposed? Reformed Prudes Stevie and Tessa journey through the minefield of sex, sexuality, and how to get out from under your shroud.Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded by Ben Williams for Plosive and edited by Clarissa Maycock.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. sexy sex and sex sex it's time for sex time titties oh no please don't say titties not on the radio ass oh as i don't mind so much yeah i don't like titties oh i don't what about does it help if you change the double t to d so tiddies no i don't mind like boobs that's fun words it's when it starts to get inherently sexual and then it's inherently sexes like oh no Panties, if I'm very stressful. Anything with like... Tees.

There's the sharp teas in there that has the sort of like panties. They sound so... Sounds so schoolgirl. I think that's part of it. Boobtees. Boobes. Bit of fun. I don't mind that.

I don't know why. Boobies. I think boobies sounds like, ha ha ha. Please do tweeters if anyone in a sexual context has ever called them boobies. I want to know. Even boobs is funny.

Tits, I don't mind. Tits fancy is a bit like bit more in control. I feel all succinct and to the point, isn't it? Tits. There they are. Anyway, welcome to the podcast. Sorry, welcome to the podcast. We're not excited about this one.

No, we are. This is nobody to panic. And I'm Stevie Martin and Tessa Coates is here as well. Hello. Hello. And we are going to do how to stop being such a goddamn tidy prude. Because, well, I remember when your first show, Tessa, and your first, like, bit was about how you couldn't say the word penis. And how you wanted to be like one of those American communities.

comedians, he just comes in as like, I love dick! And it's like, that's, you know, that's the dream. But also as well, being a prude runs deep, you know. It's not just about not being able to say the word tiddies. It's about, you know, not being able to talk about sex. And then that can kind of create attention around it, which anyone listening is, is really hearing now. Just two prudes trying to... That's it. Chug on your old carton of milk there. I've got some water. But it looks like milk. It looks like milk. You can't say it doesn't look like milk. We can't stop talking about it. Well, you've bought a carton of milk in.

So, of course, of course everyone thinks of this is. Chug your ginger beer and I want to hear the sound that you make when you do. No, thank you. Right, well, okay, fine. It's so confidential to me. God's sake. Sorry, our shoulders are up. Our energy is through the roof.

Tension is high. Tension is high because I think even the name prude is a tricky one. It's such a tangled, tangled web. Sex, sexuality, sexual desire, being accused of not liking those sort of things. Prudiness. Prudiness. prudosity prudosity

you know all of the stuff and I think if you yourself are like oh yes I identify as thank you very much

yes buttoned up thank you it's not coming off then I think there is huge freedom to be found

in learning to unbutton absolutely and some of us don't even realise that were buttoned many many many many of us

don't even realise that were buttoned you're buttoned up inside oh wow yes of course yes so there's a lot

to unpack with this one I don't embrace it wholeheartedly, dive in, whole-boobedly. Whole-boobedly. That's something that comes to everybody. And I think a lot of people, a lot of their adult life can be sort of that unpackingness. I think we've both talked about what it's like taking a close up in the changing rooms, for example. And suddenly being like, oh my God, I'm nude, here we go. You know, it's all in that not just in body confidence, but also in like taking control of you.

See, look at us, taking control of your sexual desires. Oh no. I've been sick on myself. Okay. Before we do, though, what's the most adult thing you've done this week? It's something each week that we've made ourselves feel good about being good grown up, but nothing to do sex necessarily. No, absolutely. I bonged a plenty, Chessna. Yes, yes. Oh, as have I. Thank you, Stevie. Mine is some long-term fans will remember that once my adult thing was got a fridge off gumtree. Yes, I do.

It was a huge discovery that you don't have to just. settle for whatever is in your flat, you can get a 30 pound under the counter fridge off gum tree and have it. Oh wow. Wow-e. Never feel trapped by your white goods. Never built trapped by your white goods. Turns out you can just unplug it. Wow. You got another one. So that was a huge discovery for me. Anyway, I've got a new, proper nice fridge coming and I have returned my fridge to gum tree. That's nice. You're like recirculated. Re-circulated, back out it goes into the world and actually I had trashed it a bit, so I put it on free cycle. How do you trash a fridge?

One of the drawers wasn't as on as it was when I got it. You know, things were just not in as good nick. Anyway, so I've returned to the fridge to its natural habitat. Love that. And it has gone to be free. But mostly it was like, oh, and I put it on free cycle rather than being like, I could imagine it waiting in my house for months while I was like, but I paid 30 pounds.

Yes, you know? Absolutely. And I thought that was very, very grown up of me. It's very grown up. let it go. It went to a lovely student couple. And I thought, God bless you. I probably was like, God bless them, just young love. And then they probably were like, strip out the copper and burn it on the side of the road or something. Yeah. Anyway, that's me. That's me. Okay, thanks for signifying the end of yours. That, am I very similar? I've had a,

a letter of dresses that I bought in lockdown that are insane. They're not like, it's not just like, you wouldn't wear that, like, I actually don't understand what I was thinking. Well, you were mad? Yes, let's not forget. Everyone was absolutely mad. In their absolute height of madness. I bought it once. I wore it to dinner in the flat

and then I've never worn it out because put it on it. I was like, I look like a... Do you ever see that film with Eva Green and it's called like Miss Peregrine's school for... And she plays like a fantastical nanny that can turn into a bird. Not for me.

You know how I feel about things like that, Stevie. Not for me. But I look like her. Wow. Okay. It looked like I may turn into a bird. any point and I'm from the 1930s. Not really my look. That's so your look though. That's exactly your look. It used to be but it's not really anymore. That's wonderful. When we first were friends,

like when I was at uni, I used to dress like a, well, people would often say things like, is that, is that a tabard? I love that going on. But I haven't in years. I just sort of reverted. And it's okay to have a new fashion person, be like, wait, I'm not that person anymore. I'm not that person anymore. But I'd also gone through in a sustainability situation when I and like don't buy any fast fashion. So these dresses are quite expensive. Sure, sure, sure. And so that's even more.

I've tried to sell them on Deepop, but everyone's like, quite frankly, what are you doing? And I can't sell them anywhere near the price I got them for. And then no one wants them for £10 either. So I was like, I'm just going to... And then there's another dress, which is a beautiful dress I got from TK Max that I wore once to this like event.

And I looked amazing in it. It was just after Edinburgh, so I'd lost quite a bit of weight because it was stressed in Edinburgh. And then I... Then the next time I wore it was to friend of the podcast, Lollie's birthday. and I had to get my friend to stand on my back

while zipping it up so he squashed my skin and then I had to leave the party because I honestly didn't think that this could happen I had to leave the party because I couldn't breathe out and that was the end of the party for me and so then I've still had this dress for three years thinking like, nah I'll probably fit into it again

it's gone I put it into a church shop along with the Miss Peregrine Falkin I've just realised that's why she's called that she turns into a bird Oh wow. Okay. Wow. Real time. Real time real real realisation. Oh my God. Giving away things. I've got some cupboard space. I've got some wardrobe space device. I don't know, an actual bird and hang it in there. Wow. Wow. You can have the space or you can have the thing, but you can't have both and you have to make your choice. Wow. So much I'm watching a lot of home edit. Yes, they have. Thank you, Steve. And thank you, Clea and Joanna. Right, okay. God, right.

On the subject of letting go, of being free, of birds, and crucially, of under-the-counter fridge freezers. Yes. Oh, wait, frigid air. My God, I did it. People would say frigid, oh my God, if you grew up in the early 2000s, boy, oh boy, was being frigid, a playground insult to be thrown around. It really was.

And I didn't even understand it, but you'd be offended. No, I'm not. And I'd be like, well, I'm nine, so of course I haven't had to say. But it was like, it was a real teenage thing of being like, oh my God, well, they're frigid. And be like, by that word, do you mean like a teenage girl who's not ready sexually to make big sexual steps yet? In which case, be like, everyone, of course that should be everyone. Of course that should be everyone. Or people would just say it because they were like, oh, just as I mean you don't fancy them.

That was the other thing. Oh, yeah. They were like, oh, I tried to get out thing, but she's frigid and be like, is she? Or are you horrible? Yeah. Do you not fancy? Yeah. yes gross obviously when you're like a teenager and when you're young a lot of the stuff online

when I was like looking on forms and message boards and stuff being like how could I be less for prude it was essentially just girls all the month under 25 was the absolute max being like I haven't had sex here or I haven't enjoyed sex yet like what's wrong with me that's the thing that's tricky because it's like that's not being prudish that's just genuinely haven't found the right connection haven't found the right way in which to have sex just haven't been able to let yourself go and enjoy things and you're just haven't been able to let yourself go and enjoy things And I think that is also something that I've realised as I've got older that pretty much most of my friends, female friends especially, so sorry for gendering it this early on,

but often it is, but could be anyone, has not, but essentially not found that flow. And then you only know you have when you look back and you go, oh, I'm fine now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also as well, I've got friends who, you know, still struggle. And still struggle to be, and so I think there's a real difference between being like,

the word prude is such like a massive word that's battled around for everybody. There's a real difference between being like young and you haven't actually had the experiences yet and being like, you know, a fully grown adult who can't still can't make it work. You know, still can't, and by it just mean like their sexual experience. Like still can't find the joy in it

and the word joy, obviously, constantly being trans sex. It's because I find that pleasure really like, blah. Yeah. I think it should be like joy. Like, why not? Joy. Let's be going to use the word joy

is a pleasure because the word pleasure just makes feel like throwing up. It does, it has this like horrible, this sort of, I think it's because I have this sort of seedy connotation and I think they were like, I think pleasure. CD is a helpful word to use because they think like it's so tied up with, and as, you know, understandably, like there is this like very joyful aspect to sex

and then there is this absolutely massive billion dollar industry that does feel gross and weird. If you're not ready for it. Yeah, or some aspects of it, of course are, you know, wonderful. and also some aspects of are dreadful. And so, like, everything, you know, you can't sort of tiptoe through this minefield, basically. Yes, because so much of it is essentially down to knowing yourself,

and that's the one thing that we are all terrible at. Like, I don't know what I want for dinner, so why would I know what exactly I want at all times sexually? May I say? May I say you tell you something? Oh, God, please. I had a big discovery recently. People were discussing fetishes, maybe, at a party,

or somebody had started going to a sex club. something. There was like a thing and people were saying like a funny fetish story. And I was saying that many years ago, a friend of mine who had this like first date with somebody, you know, met someone on Tinder. She goes back to his house and she has some cable ties in her bag. Right. Like cable ties. And she asks to be cable tying to the kitchen table. Okay. And I have thought about this girl every day since because I was like, I cannot imagine wanting something. so much and so clearly in myself that I was like

hog-tied me to the kitchen table tie. And I've brought them in my back. I brought them in my back. I brought the cable ties. And I was so jealous of the cable tie girl. Yeah, I understand that. Yeah. I wish I... I'm really interested in when people bring up fetishes of all kinds because I'm very interested in them. But mostly I'm actually jealous, I think, of people who've got something that they're like, this is my fetish or this is my kink or this is the thing... Whatever it is as well.

Oh, God. Because it's very easy to laugh at stuff and be like, ha-ha, that person, can only have an orgasm if they've got a pavlova on the penis, do I mean? Absolutely. You're like, well, that's very specific. But actually, Godspeed. You know what you like, and it's pavlova? I'm just flapping around being like, is it pavlova?

Should I put a nipple tassel on my face? Yeah, very difficult to know you. Very difficult to know yourself. Anyway, so I shared that I've never spoken about before, and it's hardly a secret. I shared this hogtie girl story, and I was like, and I'm so jealous of that, that she knew this thing about, she knew herself so much.

I don't have one of these. And everybody was like, I think the thing is she didn't wake up one morning and know it was cable-tied. She was born and was like, hello mother. It's cable ties, please. And I was like, didn't she?

And everyone was like, no. She went on a long sexual exploration. Several things she didn't like, discover things she did and didn't like. And at the end of this long and lengthy process, she knew it was cable-tides after she did the work to find the cable ties. Do the work.

And I was like, oh my God. Okay, okay. It's not something you're just born with that you just know yourself. You go out, and it's like pizza toppings. You don't just guess one day. You know, you try some pizza toppings. But it's so much easier, of course, to go,

maybe I'll try pineapple on my pizza than to go like, hog tie me like a big hog to the table. You've also got to trust the person. Of course. And it's so hard. And that's why I think so many people struggle because they haven't had a person, or even if they have had the person,

they haven't had the feeling that they can be like, should just like, put some food on my boob and Sue happens. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And it should be, we should, as a culture. I wouldn't even be able to say that anyway. I try it. There'd be too much laughing, and that's the issue.

But maybe in amongst it, you're like, oh shit, I do really like this. I think it should be, as a culture, we should be able to be like, it should be as much as easy as pizza toppings. It should be that we're able to. Yes, but it isn't. But of course it isn't. Of course it isn't. So that's one of the big things, isn't it?

You're not a prude. it's the society we've been brought up and socialised to feel embarrassed by literally we've been probably socialised to feel embarrassed about like having a poo or like the missionary yeah the classic missionary and there's all of these things that are simply to never be spoken of no if you're a little bit younger and you were kind of like in your teenagers or going through pbpte jrots maybe i remember when i worked at the debrief which is a now defunct women's magazine but when i went to women's magazines in general there was all that were liberal just spray whipped cream all over everything and swinging on a vine.

Why aren't you? I remember specifically when I was writing, I used to write a lot of the kind of interesting investigative sort of sex pieces that would be like looking at different subcultures and looking at different fetches and looking at things. Lots of different people. But what I came away was being like, oh, I'm really boring in a massive Victorian vanilla prude.

And it was like, oh no, what's happened is if you've grown up in that time as well, than when you're like reaching the time when you're in long-term relationships and you've found people to actually like experiment with you're like, oh God, do you have to get a strap on now? Is that what we have to do? It's like you don't actually have to do anything. But yeah, you're right. Like, but you've got to have a person that you can be comfortable trying stuff out with.

And if you haven't got that person, then that doesn't as well necessarily mean that like, oh, they're the wrong person. It just means that like they're feeling the same as you are about how like, I don't really want to say, you know? Like, do we say? How do you say that? It's really tricky because just so much about knowing yourself and about being vulnerable and open with someone else.

It's hard enough being vulnerable and open about your feelings. Then you've got to be like, oh my God, do it nude. Like, yeah, I'm earnestly nodding along with how extremely difficult it is to go on this journey. Yes. And to shed your layers and to find the things that you are into and to do that on your own without somebody holding your hand or to do it with a partner where both of you are like stumbling your way.

Yes. And they, if you're being like quiet about something or you're not saying what you want, then they might feel like they obviously can't say what they're. And then you get into a situation where you've got two people who aren't communicating, even if you're communicating on all the other levels. That level is the hardest and most difficult to communicate on. This week's episode of Nobody Panic is brought to you by the new film, Good Look to You, Leo Grand.

The Brilliant New Movie, starring the icon that is Emma Thompson, and Peeky Blinders, Darryl McCormack, is getting five stars from critics with Caitlin Moran saying, 100% of women need to see this film. Tessa. Hello, Stevie. Give me an overview of the film that we watched because I want to see your take on it.

Well, first of you're going to say Darren McCormack is an absolute juggernaut of charisma. He's in the very newest season of Peaky Blinders and I would almost describe him as a newcomer on the scene, but he'll be a long cover. He's here for a long time. Oh, boy, are we about to see him all over the shop?

He's absolutely fantastic. So, the plot follows. Nancy, Emma Thompson. a widow, a recently widowed woman in her 60s, who's had a deeply unsatisfying sex life, only ever had sex very disappointingly with her now deceased husband, who's taken it upon herself because she's a school teacher and she likes to tick things off the list and do things efficiently

to hire a sex worker, the young Leo Grande, and the whole thing takes place inside one hotel room over several sessions, and is her sort of unraveling from this incredibly uptight, incredibly prudish, incredibly furious. woman to a more sort of sexually liberated one. And along the way, we're asking questions about sex work. We're asking questions about our body. We're asking questions about why

is pleasure for everybody. Should it be compulsory? You know, it's an excellent movie. Asking a lot of questions. And also, thankfully, we watched this film. Good Look to you, Leah Grand, in the very same week that we're talking all about being a prude. And I also feel like, I don't know about you, but this film really kind of very much solidified why it's important to really focus on your own

Now, we didn't, I was avoiding in the podcast episode saying the word pleasure because it makes me feel like I'm some sort of sex expert. But how important it is to know what you want and to not sort of, what, in inverted commas, settle for things because you've not tried anything else. Because if you do, then you end up like Nancy, throwing out something Benny in a hotel room. But also without wanting to spoil anything, it's a positive thing that she's doing. And I think it's always positive to explore what you want because she goes from being. able to barely say, you know, the word penis to embracing this kind of glorious sexual relationship. Look, what do you think we can learn from Nancy when it comes to not being embarrassed by sex? Fantastic question. I think it's about not leaving things too late and seizing the day

right now, whatever, like age or stage of your own relationship or journey with your own body or journey with your own sexuality is at. And to be like, oh, yeah, what's holding me back from this and just throw off those shackles and let yourself. be free, I think. Because often it's yourself. Often you are holding yourself back. And also as well, like, I thought that there's something about being an older woman and feeling, and as one gets older, feeling like, I'm with many things, not just sex, but like feeling like,

oh, it's too late for me to deal with that. That could be anything. That could be like the career you have. That could be your sex life. It's just anything. And go like, oh, no, no, no. And then suddenly it's going to come out at some point. Like, it's going to come out and bother you in a very euphemistic way.

like at some point so if you're listening being like but i'm this age like i don't know it's kind of done for me no it's not like you can change things at literally any point you change things at 75 85 105 also it sort of really explores you know nancy's obviously sort of so disgusted by her own body and spends a lot of the first part of the film being like oh you know if i have to pay you extra to have sex with me i understand because i'm so i'm so disgusting and then sort of goes on this journey of being like actually my body is fantastic. And I think that's such an important one for anybody to go on that's like, oh yeah, your body's amazing. It does so much for you. It's incredible and you mustn't be disgusted by it. And also they rehearsed it, the film, Totally Naked, Daryl and Emma and Sophie Hyde, the director.

Did they? Yeah. They did a lot of nude rehearsals, just the three of them and talking about their bodies, talking about their relationship with their bodies, drawing their bodies, discussing the feelings that they do and don't like about them, describing one another's bodies. And initially, I was like, oh my God, what a process. And then me like, like, actually, why, why, why, why, should that be such a terrifying idea. And to that end, Stevie, I think the podcast should be nude from now on. Well, we are both nude now, of course. A spoiler, we're completely naked.

But I think, like, it makes you think like, oh, God, a nude rehearsal. They're actually like, wow, I bet that was such a freeing and amazing process. And Emma Thompson talks about how being naked in the film is one of the, like, hardest and scariest things she's ever had to do. And you're like, that's amazing that she did it, but so many ways so sad that someone describing just being naked in front of somebody else, or even alone in front of the mirror on your own to be the hardest thing you've ever had to do. And I think that's what the whole message of the film, I suppose,

is sort of like, why not? And then why not? And then along the way, like, obviously there's going to be so much to unpack. It doesn't work immediately. Of course, this film takes place over many, many months. It isn't going to be this instantaneous process. And it's about being, like, showing up and committing to the experience and being like, but, and obviously the end result, no spoilers.

The end also as well, I think when you said about that they did naked rehearsals and things like that, because they've got an excellent. chemistry, the two lean. And I think that's quite a good, like, microcosm of what it's like in real life of, it's so much easier to know what you want, say what you want and explore things when you're with somebody who you share a real connection with. And also as well, that includes yourself. Like if you are not connected to yourself, then you're going to struggle to know what you want. And also, as well, like, it's good to make sure that the people that you're with and you're exploring things with are people that you feel so comfortable with that you've done lots of nude

rehearsals, you know. Amen. And that chemistry absolutely does shine out on screen. The last thing is to say, like, I cannot think of a film that's ever sort of touched on this or explored this in this particular way of like what it's like to be in your 60s and to be trying to embrace something that you should have done 40 years ago. Yeah, I've not seen it in such like a mainstream in a mainstream setting. Yeah, there's like in a kind of, and I mean mainstream in a positive way because it's broad. This is like an appealing film. It's a good film for so many people,

not just like some sort of French art house, you know? Emma Thompson, in the cinemas, there aren't any moments where you're like, oh, no, grandma's watching. Like, I genuinely could have watched it with grandma. It would have been okay. Grandma would have liked it. I think it's so relatable.

And the fact that it's so relatable, it's like, that's why people need to watch it. That's why you need to see it. I think it will make a lot of people, a lot of people feel less alone privately in their own head. I think a lot of people are private nancy's. So if you're like, oh my God, I've got to go see this.

The new film, Good Luck to you, Leo Grande, starring Emma Thompson and Daryl McCormack, is exclusively in cinemas on June the 17th. Book your tickets now. And tell us what you think. Did you see yourself in Nancy? Are you, Daryl McCormack? Get in touch. Do get in touch, specifically if you're Daryl McCormack, but also everyone else, welcome.

I just wanted to read out some of the consequences of, I don't want to say being approved because that's not the right word, but like being sexually repressed, shall we say. There's physical consequences so you can have trouble sleeping, you can have body tension issues like things like frozen shoulder and like just migraines

difficulty with reaching a climax. I have to say it like that, of course. Pain or discomfort during sex itself and then there's also emotional distress so you could just sort of feel frightened about having, even if you love the person

and you're very happy, you could feel a sense of fear or anxiety or guilt associated with it. A very self-judgment of having like sexual thought or if you have like a, you know, a sex dream or something, feeling really like, oh my God, like I'm not wanting to, you know, obviously, there's certain people that you wouldn't want to talk to him about, but like not feeling like you ever could and not knowing what it means. As well, being repressed means that you could be struggling to accept your sexual orientation. So you might not know how you identify because you might feel like, is you never actually, you know, held up to any scrutiny and God, well, hang on, what do I want? And is it actually this or is it something altogether else that I haven't even thought about? And then that can come across as like a complete lack of interest in. sex as well in general. I can go through large periods of time where you don't want to have sex in any way. And also if you're thinking, well, okay, I don't have any of those, but if you think

about what you're like in a sort of sex way, and if you don't tend to ask for what you want, you tend to be passive, then that is a big sign that you are. It's actually repressed in some way. And I think one of the big problems is that I can't speak for the LGBTQ plus community, but I know a lot of straight women who that's just what it is. Like, that's how you're introduced to it. You're You're being like, well, this is happening. Okay. Or you are performative with it because you're like, well, I guess I'm supposed to be like this. And you're so interested in what you're supposed to be.

I suppose it actually even me, like, if I actually, like, turned it inwards and was like, what do you want? I'd be like, I don't fucking know. A good time? Are we all here for a fun time? That is a problem to not know. Like, I have no idea if I got cable tied, if I don't have a nice time. If I'd absolutely have a panic attack, could not tell you. Well, I don't think you start there.

No. Well, I mean, I think you start with seeing if tying up is something you like. Of course, yes. But what I'm saying is I haven't even thought of it. Well, that's the thing. I think, and to return to pizza for a second, if your personal preference is margarita, then, and possibly when you go out to the pizza reference, everyone goes, Margarita. But you're like, you know what?

I've tried all the toppings. It's my faith. It's my faith. It's like, God bless. But if you're like, I have margarita, I've never tried anchovies. Perhaps, I don't know. I could never. Is it fish?

What if I hate them? Yeah. Or what if that looks too showy? You know? So it's absolutely like it. Yeah, no, I really is funny. Margaritas is absolutely fine, as long as you have tried all the other flavours.

Yes, and you know if you like. And so you know what you like. And so I think it's just about being like, do I like mushrooms? Because we've been in a long-term relationship with a sexual partner and we've only ever had mushrooms. Do I actually like mushrooms? Or is there just other stuff out there that I've never tried it?

I think it's about being like, yeah, sample the stuff. Yes. See what tying up is like, not straight away at the most extreme end, but like cable ties. You've got to cut your way out of them. Maybe not that. Not exactly. And explore. Use a mushroom, for example.

Tie yourself up with an oyster mushroom. Yeah, why not? Easily to get out of it. Try something out. And just be like, we're making gentle little steps through the stuff. Nothing has to be big. Nothing has to be overwhelming. And there will be stuff in there.

You're like, you know what? I didn't know. Rocket on pizza. My God. you know, there's stuff like, an egg, an egg. That was a huge one for me. Right? And be like, an egg. And then you think, bloody hell, I'll try it. They're like, oh my God, I love it or not or whatever. And so I think it's about being like, okay, let's start that off. And then equally like, I remember like, I'm sort of when we were at school. Because I think like all of this stuff, even though it was a long time ago, how you feel about sex now and about your body and about being prude and about like other people talking about sex and all of these sort of things.

Even though it's been a long time since you're at school, it all stems from you like early formative like understanding and sexual. relationships and all of this sort of stuff. I remember at school, like, basically our such education was an art teacher, or hysterical, trying to help us put a condom on a banana or a cucumber or something. She couldn't do it. Nobody could do it. Like, we didn't, nobody knew what they were doing. And I remember that, and I remember you had a very, very long, like, months and

months in biology of learning about, like, the progesterone cycle. Then this condom class, and that was basically it. Like, at no point did anyone ever be, like, I went to a state school and we had quite... Did you? Yeah, we had like a video that was like, it's okay to wank. Oh my God, that's so great.

So I don't think it's to do particularly with the private sector or the state education. No, I just sort of presumed it was, but no. Imagine if that was the case of like that was the main divide. There was like more money in it. You know, like they put more money to the resources for it.

So I, with most things, it is that. I thought you meant, oh, prudes in the private sector. Oh, of course. You don't know. No, no, I didn't mean that. Obviously there's like the Catholic schools and things like that.

divide there but no i i just meant in terms of like just actual resources and putting time and money they're quite surprised they didn't put anything into it at our school and maybe you went to a much better one than me but like that's so lovely you had a video called it's okay if you wank because my participation was like never mentioned not once i think like now i really really feel passionately about like i would quite like to go into schools and like do such education talks and like just answer the get rid of all the teachers be like you can write your your weirdest question anonymously in this box that's the best i'm going to answer them and it'll be funny and we'll just talk about the stuff because nobody knows anything

and nobody had ever sat down and been like by the way, if you yourself are not masturbating you're nowhere near ready for somebody else to touch you. So if you're not comfortable and cool with your own body, like of course you're not ready. But every, especially again, talk about girls, but especially everyone was just like, yes, masturbation is disgusting

but a boy can do it. You're like, and a boy and we'll always be having to be like, what? What? At least now they have like, it's all very well being like just get to know your body. You're like, how? But there's so many really great podcasts and sort of resources now online that you just go and just explore stuff. So that video, obviously now I look back on how progressive. But like I only had

Microsoft in Carter. So it was like, it was like a drawing of a woman in a bath. And she just like, it's fine to do that. And I remember specifically going like, it's fine to do what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I don't understand. I think people didn't even know. And there was a thing where I was, like, was it, is, I also, there was a point where I was in the bath, I was like, am I supposed to, like, put my vaj under the tap? Because I'll drown. Yeah. It's in the wrong place. And I just didn't think about it again because I was like, well, I guess. So it was helpful, but not actually helpful, because obviously at school, they're like, and here's a tutorial.

Because the added thing about being like, oh, it is more complicated because on the whole, the male body is very much. physiologically set up for you do something for a certain amount of time and you will get some sort of result often from everyone. Plenty of people having trouble with it. Absolutely. But when you're going through puberty, they're getting erections all over the place. And then girls don't know what's going on often. And it sometimes can take a bit longer or not.

But then as you get older, then what happens is obviously your brain gets involved. And that's why then men start having erectile problems. Often it's the brain. Like there's a reason why Viagra works, it's like that's literally just, showing you that there's nothing physiologically wrong. It's literally showing you that your brain can't do it. With women, I know it's a bigger problem about like, just not being able to recreate that anymore

because you're just stressed and you can't compartmentalize as well or you can't switch off. And then getting frustrated about not being able to is the time when you're just never going to be able to. Like, you get into a cycle of being like, oh, well, I can't. So that's, oh, what's wrong with me? Oh, no.

The only way to break that is to actually, break that and go, okay, cool, I'm gonna, what was that thing that, do you remember when, like, Emma Watson, Hermione from Harry Potter, when she was, like, talking about that app that's called, like, something like, oh my God, yes. Oh, my God, yes, that was what it's called. I was called me too? I can't be. Oh, my God, yes. I don't know if that's any good. I'm sure it is. And that's, like, and that's, like, an app, I think, that's got loads of, like, literally got, like, tutorials and how to do stuff and, like, things that aren't done in, like, a cringe way. that's just like a very matter-of-fact way

to help women that feel sexually repress and like they don't know how to talk about stuff. And it's like, well, you've got to start talking about it to yourself but that doesn't necessarily mean I cannot stand the whole like, light a candle, just like enjoy yourself. You're like, what? I don't want to watch Netflix. Like I don't want to like, so actually having an outside resource to be able to like, yeah, it's treat it like a bit of a research project almost.

You treat it like a little thing. And then once you feel like, I'm more interested in this or this, and you've got someone to like try stuff with, then you can kind of move into like, like chatting to them about it and they'll probably be absolutely thrilled because you're like you've just you've done the hard work for us you're swinging in on a vine thank you oh they'll be your partner will be thrilled that you're like yeah you're like I've done all this stuff and I really want to talk about like it because it's very helpful because so many

people are repressed on some level whether that yes absolutely characterizes themselves as almost being overly promiscuous or intersex sometimes that can be a performance too sometimes not but sometimes it can be like I've got friends of sleep with so many people but But then they're not actually aware of what they like. Do you remember that Channel 4 show about dogging? Oh my God. Where they put them in those insane, like, bird masks to protect their identity. Yes.

Yeah. I'd never watched it. But everyone talked about it constantly. It was absolutely wild. Because as an attempt at anonymity, they gave them these crazy, please do Google it. I mean, the things were wild, like a huge hawk mask. With a beak. Yeah, beaks and feathers.

Must be very, getting in the way. you know, they were so easily identifiable. Like, you'd watch the show and you'd be like, well, that's Phil. That's Phil with a hawk mask. You weren't. They weren't anonymous in any way. And then, like, there was a lady, a married couple, and they liked to go dogging. And she really liked for everyone to watch her.

And so initially I was like, oh, God bless, fantastic that we're seeing a woman here who's so like, this is why I like and I like everyone to watch. And then the more they sort of explored it, the more the husband was like, I don't really like it. but she makes her happy. And then the more that she was like, I was very insecure as a child and now as a teenager and like this is my way. And I was like, oh dear. Everyone needs to unpack so much stuff here.

So even on the surface, someone that you'd be like, my God, dogging. Imagine how liberal they are is really coming from a place of like, you know, a deep sadness or a deep, you know. Yeah, not feeling attractive. Not feeling like anyone liked them and they're younger. And so it isn't really like, this is actually, this is I know this way I like and this is just what I love.

And it's like, it's like this is. It's like this is a roundabout way of getting around something that hurt me a long time ago or whatever. And so there is so much, you know, no matter how much you feel that you're doing it wrong and everyone else has got it right, nobody's getting it right. And it's just about you making those like small steps forward. And if your thing like me is like, I don't know what I like, what pizza I like and I've only ever had a margarita. You know, let's start that journey together. Is it on, oh my God, yes, the thing or is it? And admittedly, there used to be some fantastic free porn.

sites out there because Tumblr used to be amazing. And there was... Oh, really? Yes, yes. That was just for Tom Hiddleston memes. Well, there used to be some sexy gifs. Oh, but a fun. Sexy black and white pictures. And I sort of, what we might call it the classy erosica section.

And then there was so much on Tumblr. It was a real, like, community. And then a couple of years ago, it got shut down. And they really cracked down on where, like, where the line should be with pornography on the internet, which I think is a real mistake. Because, like, there was a free, female friendly resource out there. all is gone. And now I do think you have to pay for it, but I suspect,

you're paying $7.99 a month for Netflix. Maybe try a monthly trial at some of the, you know, the paid for replaces. There must still be some free ones, but it's just the thing is that you go in it and then it's like, it's like, it's like, it's a big, listen. Then you're like, oh my, what is that? What's happening? And then it's very easy to just be like, well, I don't like that.

So I don't like anything. In order to get to that, this is somebody who has explored at length. It's not free. The free stuff is too scary. Yes. Because to get to the nice video, you have to go down like a corridor

of like, I don't know, I don't want to see that. I don't want to see that. Yes, yes. And that's not really got you into the mood

when you're like, oh my God, and you get to the door that you do want to get to. And I was like, you're all right. And it's like, sorry,

I's had to come down this corridor and there was a lot of sort of stuff. I was very worried about everyone involved and all the stuff I saw, you know, but I'm here now

and everyone looks like having a good time. We could crack on. Yeah, but now I've sort of lost interest. I have lost interest, yeah. Yes, of course. I'd be very interested in watching, like, sort of it's set in the 70s

and everyone's on a boat having a fantastic time. Yeah. That's why I really used to like. But in order to find it, I'd have to... She's going like, having it on a boat a fantastic time. Oh! And then it's, then, you know... So that's why I'm like, I think what we probably need to be doing

is putting a bit of money behind it, you know, getting some good stuff, being like, we're taking our commitment to our new self, a bit more seriously. I haven't actually looked at the options out there, but I'm sure if you Google them, there's like female led or what would you, friendly porn? What would you, okay, friendly porn, we're googling friendly porn. Should I just Google it now and say what happens? Female led, female focus, female directed. What if you're not a woman and you still don't want to, you? I would say whoever you are going for female directed is a key shortcut for no one's crying.

Right. That's, yeah, I don't Google friendly porn. Nothing happens, really. Anyway. And I do apologize, this is very gendered from both of us here. But I think, unfortunately, it is a case that, like, that is how a lot of this stuff. Yes. But also, we don't know about gay porn.

We don't know. I'm sure there's amazing, as in porn for trans porn, all the stuff. I don't know what that, there'll be, there's two ladies also from the 70s called Ginger and Bunty. They're always cooking. Ginger and Buntie are always cooking. And let me, I think that's what it's called, the program. And let me tell you, Stevie, they're not good at cooking.

They're always throwing that stuff all over the shop. Okay. They're in a shop, are they? They're trying to clean up the shop and then when ginger's clothes will fall off. They just look that they're having such a good time. This is the stuff, yes. Just treat it like a fun research project for yourself, just like you would with anything that you're interested in, like when you know,

you come across a conspiracy theory and I've got to know everything about that. And no pressure, no harm. Oh, I don't like it. No worry. Let's try a different one. Yes. You know, gentle research. And then eventually bring it, if there is somebody in your life that you can explore this stuff with,

be like, hey, you know what, I've been exploring this? This. How do you feel about it? Could we try this out? If you are on your own, trying out some more of the toys, the stuff, the things. The toys and the stuff. The stuff. Every influencer is currently sponsored by this, like, egg.

Yeah. Try out the egg. Everyone's having sex with this egg. You know, don't like the egg, no problems. And then if you're like, I can't even get to the egg. I'm sweating, even thinking about this. egg, be like, okay, how are you feeling about your body? Is it a nude in the local changing room? Is that the first step? Could I offer skinny dipping late at night? I've been like, oh my God, this is fine.

My body is fine. Oh, look at me go. Let's just, you know, slowly, slowly taking some buttons off and being like, who buttoned me up because I was born naked and I ran around naked as a child and this is the most human thing in the world. So who did these buttons up? Yes. Is it that I don't like my body? Is it that I just have never thought about what I want? Is it that? I'm not with the right person, is it that I, yeah, all of those, there'll be a reason why, and then it's very helpful, like I suppose, yes, to know the main reason why, so then you can move forward to, like, change, because somebody else did those buttons up. Someone else buttoned you up. And it's up to you now to button you down.

Wow. Very powerful words there. I do think that's, that's truly the case, because we were all born confident and proud and crucially naked. Yeah. But I think everybody's like, oh, okay, yeah, if I really unpack, here's a story from when I'm eight, and someone was like, put your clothes back on, you know, or whatever. And I was like, okay, this is shameful. And I just put that straight in my core memories, you know. And off we go.

And so it's just about finding those memories. Put yourself down. Great. Have a wank, mate. For God's sake, have a lovely wank. Discover what it is that you like out there. And make this the project for the rest of the year to be like, okay. Okay.

I'm going to find the kinky thing that I like. Fun, joyous thing. And you don't have to know it immediately. It might take you some time. You've got all the time in the world. Yeah, all the time in the world. I'm just putting the end of the year on it as it's being like, well, this is what I'm doing this year. Of course, yes, absolutely.

And I think it's like, and if after all of this, you're like, you know what it is, it's Margarita. God bless you. My favourite ice cream, my favourite ice cream flavour is vanilla. But have you tried pistachio, Stevie? A hundred percent. She's tried it. I like it. I like loads, but vanilla's my favourite.

Yeah. She's been out there. She knows, you know? And that also isn't like a euphemism. Like, I am actually talking about ice cream flavour. Yeah, but equally, we can't, we can't be like, I think I like, probably my favourite is missionary. Yes.

You know, is it? Or have you simply not tried it? Yes. If you've not swung in on a vine, which I'm obsessed with, then you can't say that you don't like it. Go bonk. And if you have any more episode suggestions, nobody panic podcast at gmail.com or nobody panic pod on Twitter.

And just have a nice, relaxed week, guys. Just have a nice time. Light a candle and takes some me time. No, don't. No, don't. What does that mean? Go on Microsoft and Carter and Google wanking. There's nothing there.

Have a little goog. Have a cheeky gog, guys. Have a cheeky gog. And God bless you. Good luck in finding your faith. And we'll see you next time.