Nobody Panic - How to Ask for a Pay Rise

Episode Date: November 5, 2019

Feel like you deserve more money for your hard graftin’ but don’t know how to ask? Via the art of role play and questionable improvisation (plus some excellent tips and research), Stevie and Tessa work out how to go for it and get that pay rise.Produced and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London podcast festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. it. Welcome to Nobody Panic. Welcome. Come on in. Take a seat. Have you got anything to discuss? Perhaps salary-wise? Oh, is your butt clenched up inside your body? And salary-wise. Are you dripping in

sweat at the thought of it? Actually, I once asked for a pay-rise. This is about pay-rises and how to ask for a pay-rise? This is nobody-panic. This is desert. And this is about pay-rises. And we'll be talking over it to the entire thing. Just get on board. This is the theme, okay? We've had a crabbies ginger. rail. And we're absolutely buzzing. It's too much, if I'm honest. I think we've had two tips of it. I'm flying. So, yeah, how to ask for a pay rise. And as we like to explore all, you know, areas of life and try and help you navigate adulthood, I think a pay rise means that you're a full adult. If you've asked for a pay rise and you've got it, you've got it. Actually, you know what? No, if you've asked her a pay rise, whether you've got it, you haven't. Yes. You are

a fully flesh adult. Yes. Well done. Congratulations. Please join the club. I'm not in the club, but neither is it said you just, you asked for them. I did. Yeah. No, I did. No, I did. I just feel like I don't want to segregate myself from from everybody, but I did ask for a pay rise and it was such a low, I was on such a low salary that the pay rise, it was less like, I'm going to ask for a pay rise. It was more like, I can't eat. Basically, I was working as a journalist and they did, they, they, they did the company did the thing, which I think a lot happens in the creative arts quite a lot, which is where they give you a title, no, no, which is where they don't change your title, but you do a completely different job that's very senior, that then because

they haven't changed your title, they can be like, well, I think they should be. And so I was technically like a junior writer or something. And I was doing the job of a commission. I mean, I was just commissioning all the articles in, in two of the sections. And I, yeah, I wanted to go from a, uh, uh, seven, seven, seven thousand to 18,000. Huge. I actually asked for just more money. And that was what they gave me. And then I left. Because I was like, I, unfortunately, the extra thousand pounds a year hasn't meant that I can... If I not push you... Did not push me into the eating good food stage.

It was just that the media company didn't have any money at that point to give to this particular brand. But... All things we're going to cover. Oh my God. We're going to... If you're listening and you're a big media company and you want to give money to a brand, this is a podcast for you. Have I got some hot tips for you, you big conglomerate you?

But yeah, so that's why I feel like I didn't really do the thing where I walked into like, you know, the kind of glass sliding door off. being like, hello, hi, I'd like a pay rise, please. I was just more like, everybody knew I was on not enough, and they were all trying, and it was very much like, we're so sorry, we can only give you this, but we want to give you more. So it didn't feel like I've joined the adult club yet. But I am very good with money and being like, that's not enough, bitch. I do say that quite a lot.

Do you? And does that work, does it? In the email, I don't. I say it aloud, while in the email, which I schedule to go in the morning, because I've written it at two in the morning. While I whispering, give me more money, bitch. You better have my money, like that. Yeah, bitch better have my money. Yeah. The Rihanna song.

Yes, yes, I know. Sorry, just checking. I knew what I was doing. And I'll say things like, oh, unfortunately that fee doesn't quite match the workload that I'll be putting into this. Powerful stuff. Can we go to this? And I always say higher than I want because the amount of times they go, oh no, we can't do that, but we can do this. And it's higher than I was going to be anyway.

And I learned that from Emma Gannon, who's written an amazing book called The Multi-Hifin Method. and I don't think the tips is in there but she's like basically the multi-hyphen method is about how to go through life when you've got lots of different jobs and you're basically your own boss. It's very important and I think if you are asked to do things for free it's okay to say I'm sorry I can't afford to do that for free

yeah I was always frightened to do it because I thought well they'll just say no and then hire someone who will be like 50 pounds great but actually that's never happened they've always just apologised and either the decision has been on me whether I take it or whether I don't

they've not gone sorry and just like fired me. Yeah. And it makes you look like you are way more professional than maybe you are. And also you are way more in demand and that it gives you a level of respect in the room and in the job that you're doing. And I realise we haven't even got to the adult thing yet. And I seem to have said all my points about that I was going to say. You've really blown your load here. Look, I've had four sips of crabbies now.

It's got too far. You take a breath. Thank you. Okay. I'm so tired. Yes, you just calm yourself down. Don't have a little nap. And I'll take control

And say that this was inspired by There are three, all women actually, but three women in my life in the last couple of months who have all told me they were going to ask for a pay rise And then absolutely spiraled the shit out In the lead up to the pay rise request. I understand.

And so this is partly inspired by them. It's for them. It's for them. And I think it's also, it's a, we're old. Look, everyone's old. We're old. So just get on my place. You're old.

You know, if you're over 10 years old, you're old. I just know so much what it was like to be like a little match girl and be like a throppence. Oh, a governor, if anything, that's too much money. I don't know if anyone listens to where should we begin with Esther Perel. No, what is that? Oh, sweet lord, you're going to like it so much. It is a French therapist called Esther Perel. She gives free therapy to couples or to individuals in exchange for putting out

their stuff on the podcast, but with all the names changed. And it's incredible. Oh my God. This sounds absolutely. It's so good. But mostly she's incredible. And at one point, she's dealing with somebody, a woman who's, you know, has basically accepted so, given herself so little in her life.

And it's like, no, no, this is fine. This is, I, you know, I don't deserve anymore. And she stops the thing and says, who taught you to live on crumbs? And I think that that's what I meant. Because it wasn't like, oh, the money thing. It's just that the idea that you're nothing to do with the money. that has a little bean and you're like, now you're a person that can have a bowl of soup perhaps.

Right, exactly. It's not about the things. It's about your own self-worth and your own belief that you, because when you are in a like, oh, thank you for these crumbs. You truly are like, thank you for these crumbs. You act like you've just had a bean for lunch. Because you're like, well, everyone probably went to Pratt, but I have a mere being. Guys.

What's the adult thing you've done this week? Before we get into it even more, because I'm quite fired up. I genuinely didn't think I'd have anything to say or wouldn't be very passionate about this subject. Well, you just wait. Mine is that I am currently wearing head to toe. So after we did our fast fashion episode with Lauren Bravo,

and we talked about sustainable fashion, an amazing company who are fans of the podcast got in touch. It's called Eva M-O-M-O-S-O. And they make a sustainable workout gear. They're made from natural and recycled fabrics. And this is this beautiful pale pink top. Oh, yes. It's so soft.

It's lovely. And then they have matching leggings. and I've not actually worked out in them because they're so nice that I don't want to. Absolutely. But I do really like wearing them around the home, like a glamorous lady. Yeah, so if anyone like pops in, you're like, oh, me. Oh, you just come in my workout game. Sorry, I was just heading out.

I'm embarrassing. Gosh, but no, I'm actually just wear them round, round and round. So do check out Eva Moso. X, I mean, that's great. I feel so grown up and glamorous in them. You look very glamorous. Thank you so much. I'm going to do one that's similar.

Oh, please. Which is that in that fast fashion episode, I too was touched and moved. Yes. And we talked about depop. The sort of like, it's like, I guess, a little app and you can buy and sell clothes and they're not. Oh my God, what is the word for when it's like their second hand? Thank you. I was like, I kept thinking they're not firsthand.

That doesn't feel right to me like. They're people's clothes. People's clothes. And also people make clothes and sell them on there. But they've all, like, you're also buying... I've seen people do upcycling cool stuff. Yeah, because it's also like, if you want like a cool crop top, it's almost to like cut a hoodie, but hemmed it properly, it looks good.

Because when you do it, it's just unraveling. You've just cut a hoodie. And everyone's like, gosh, what happened to your hoodie? Yeah, are you okay? You know what, I'm not okay. I thought I would be, but I thought this would fix it, but it's made. It's made it much worse. Oh, terrible.

But I needed some new trainers, because my trainers were falling apart, and I bought some amazing trainers off deep. pop and they were like Calvin Klein trainers that I would never also have been able to afford and they were like 50 quid rather than I don't know I'm going to say 7 million probably like 80 quid they are basically brand new but that obviously not brand new but they're brilliant and so I'm now I try I've tried to sell four things on there is that gone no that's been a month and no one's even looked at them okay um I think the things I've tried to sell are mad do you want to do a shout out to your handle yes go on the depop it's at steviem the s's five very simple keeping it all the same but the main thing

is I'm just finding it really, it's really great because it's so much less vintagey than I thought it was going to be. I thought there's loads of just like vintage clothes. It's like a charity shop. But actually, it's like ASOS or something. And I haven't bought anything off ASOS for a month, which for me is actually an achievement. That's absolutely wonderful.

Thank you. Right. Let's get in. Pay rise situation. Have you asked for a pay rise or asked for more money or been involved in hard bargaining? Do you want to come in and ask me for a pay ride? And I'll be your boss.

Oh, sure. Okay. That's the door. Gosh. Hello? That's your chicken. Where are the lights? B'clock!

Oh, sorry, hi. Hello. Hi, I'll just turn the lights on. Hello. I like to meditate in the dark. You've really disturbed me. I'm so sorry. What is it?

Is it Stephanie or Susan? Steve. Stevie. Right, yes, I remember. Come on in. Thank you. Lord Tessa. Yes. What do you want?

The CEO of the conglomerate. I was just thinking, you know, I've been here for four years. Right. Okay. And I am, obviously, I'm bringing a lot of value. I headed up that really great project that, you know, we got quite a lot of revenue from that. And I just think that I've been on the same salary for a long time. And I think maybe it might be nice for me to feel a little bit more appreciated in the company.

And to help with that, I would like a pay rise. Why? Because I'm... No. Get out of my office. It's really hard. It's so hard. I think the trick is you have to prepare.

Yes. And so I obviously had four seconds to come up with how I was going to say it. Which leads to the first tip, prepare what you're going to say. Yes. You did really well, though, I think. Thank you. I actually preferred the sort of improv bit leading up to it. It was when I actually had to ask for the pay rise. Yeah, because it's a disgusting thing. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. Vulgar. Talking about money.

No, I think it's not. I counter that. I think it's not. I think people like you, no. I think people feel like it's vulgar because older generations have said it's vulgar quite a lot. And I think the more we are like quite open about it, the less disgusting it feels in our souls. And again, I think this is something we definitely do a podcast about is about money and how we're so like, I have, you're like, well, that's my friend and they seem rich, but you're like, I've absolutely no idea.

How to tell if someone's rich or not. Yeah. I would love that podcast. I don't know what they're, you can't even guess what they're making. Absolutely not. And so it could honestly be like 20,000 pounds. It could be 150. thousand. That's such a large difference in money

and yet we have like no concept of what. And I think it's even within one office you, because everyone's so like oh it's disgusting to talk about money. Money, religion and sex. How dare you? Well especially it's it illegal to discuss your salary with your colleagues. Well, here is a really interesting thing because I did not know that that that was illegal

because I was going to be like, well just ask. What's the problem? So and in some, it's not illegal but in some employment contracts there is a clause which prevents staff from disclosing information about pay to third parties, which I think is only benefiting the management. That's the only reason that comes in. It could not, it could not exist for any other reason. So already when you're like, oh, it's in my contract that I mustn't say, you're like,

who's that for? Hey, hey, champ. In any environment, whatever your job is, and if you, especially do the job as somebody else, you have got to be aware of what everyone else in your company or your business is making. Yeah, it's similar to you. Yeah. In the same. Exactly. I know matter how much you're like, well, I mustn't ask and I mustn't do this. Like, yes, you must. Like, it's imperative that you understand like whatever else in the company is making. And there's a professional way to do it because it's like you can approach somebody being like I'm thinking about potentially asking for a pay rise or a promotion or something and be like I'm just trying to get a gauge of what everyone's band is. Do you know what I mean? Exactly. You don't have to be like how

lol what how much money do you make like? Exactly. There's like loads of classy ways around it but you just have to make. Caviar how much money do you make? Option one. Option two. I don't I hope it's okay if I ask you but are you, would you say I mean this is I hope this isn't our time we're meeting. This is mid-conversation. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I work in HR. Would you say, could you not, if you make more than 25,000,000? I'm already. Tessa in a corporate environment. Not if you make over 50 grand and then shake your head if it's under. Okay. I think you have to find, hopefully you're in a working environment where you have at least one person that you can be open with and you can confide in. And it's, and I don't think it's a good piece of advice to say,

go around to everyone and ask. No, it's not. You can't. But you will definitely have someone that you can ask and they may not be in the same, it may be like lower down than you or higher up and you or whatever, but at least you'll be able to gauge, you'll have some level of being like, oh, well, they, I don't know, are like slightly below the work that I do and they're on the same or whatever. It will give you some sort of gauge. But then I think, I think that's probably enough to then, and crucially, it is this, this law about you're not being able to not be able to not being allowed to talk about it. It is unenforceable if your purpose is for asking to discover a pay discrimination. Oh my God, great. So you're completely safe. So no matter how much

you're like, I'm not, I just mustn't, we mustn't speak about it. If your thing is to be like, I suspect there is a pay discrimination and yet we are doing the same job and we might be being, you know, perhaps that's an age or gender or anything like that, you're completely within your right to. That's so interesting. And also, if it is all like, all legit and it's like everyone earns the same as you, then, then you can cover it by being like, I thought there may be a pay discrimination. Exactly, exactly. I was just clarifying that there wasn't a pay discrimination and you're within your legal rights to disclose your pay for that purpose to your colleagues or to ask your colleagues

how much they get paid and it is unlawful for your employer to victimise you for doing so or for your colleagues to all your colleagues for complying with your request. Amazing. So if any point, if any point you're genuinely nervous that you're in any way breach of your contract, like as long as you're not, you know, as long as you've done about it in a, it's just more of a social thing being like, hello, my name to dovie, how much are you on? Yeah, as long as you've gone about it in a. respectful, you know. We're increasingly moving in a way that's like transparency is key and it protects

workers and does this, like not to mention my lord and savior, Alexandra, Hacazio-Cortez, which I do every episode, but she was very public. At the A, she has like an on-site crash or something in her office. So does. Anybody on maternity pay are on the same thing and there's the babies that looked after. But also she was like, everyone on my staff, the starting salary is $52,000 a year. So it's just like, this is what we're making. She's just showing what should be happening? She said, she said this was, they said I should pay them less, but I've chosen to put everyone at this grade bracket because I believe everyone works very hard and this is the pay.

And it's just like, great. You know, it doesn't. If you can, do. Yeah, please. You know, so it's in everyone's favour to move in this sort of direction. And also if you find yourself freaking out about, this is the last sort of legal thing, that if you do find yourself freaking out and whoever in your life is saying,

for God's sake, ask for a pay rise, you, you know, you can't live on these crams. And you're like, but what? If they fire me, you know, it is. illegal to fire somebody for asking for a pay rights. Yeah, they won't because also most people are humans and if you're not on the amount that you should be, they know that. Even if they're like

a massive dick, they still know that so they're not gonna, they aren't going, they will, like like I said, if they do victimize you then you're well within your rights to be like, well, you know, take, go to HR. Yeah, which obviously don't want to do but that's their problem for treating you like shit for want to, remember that you're in

your favour, like nothing can, they cannot fire you for, be like if your thing is like but what if they think I'm a rude girl for asking for asking for asking for too much she was fired for being a rude girl is like that's literally legally cannot happen I loaded some like specifics in terms of what to literally do when you want to ask for it because I remember when I was asking for it yeah it was very much like practice it beforehand knew I was going to say and didn't want to focus on like I can't eat because that's kind of unprofessional it was more like I do this I do this I do this I do

this, I feel that that merits more money than 17,000 pounds a year. And I think there's also, so doing your research and your prep beforehand is really important. So you can Google, and also I'd googled around to see what commissioning editors, which was basically what I was. There's something called salary checker. Yes, that's what I went on. And I think you, yeah, so obviously if you're in like a creative startup, quite, quite tricky, but you can just find the closest to what is you. And then you have, you're armed with like knowledge of being like, look, this is what the average salary is and I'm on this, and that's also helpful if you're in a position

where you can't ask other people's what other people's salaries are because you then have something else that you can compare it to. It's not Dave's on this. And then you can say, the national average is this? Fuck you. I want to get there. The other thing as well, which I think is obvious, but actually maybe it's not,

is to not ask for it over email or phone. Like, you need to have a meeting and you need to be in the room. As frightening as it is, as long as you need to remember, remove the fear from it because the only thing that will happen, the absolute worst case scenario is they go, okay, we will, I'll talk to some people, we'll, we'll have a, have a look. And then they go, no, I'm sorry. Yeah. They're not, that is the worst that can happen.

And so, you know, it's very unlikely that they're going to, like, freak out. I mean, they're not going to freak out and fire you. They're literally just going, that's, they are, they are a professional just as much as you are, and they are a human being. And then the other one is to practice what you're going to say. And, yeah, don't focus on the life elements of it. Never even mention it. Never even mention it.

You don't have to say that you can't afford a press sandwich. That's not their problem. They don't give a shit. They really don't care to focus on what you have brought to their company. Like that's the thing. Imagine someone said like, what do you do for this company? And then answer that question before you ask for the pay rise. Yeah.

No one can. Everyone needs money and everybody has things they need to pay for. Everybody's got people who are ill or people who need a new house or we all were trying to buy a new car. Are we not? Look, I've been trying to buy a new car for years. Please. She needs. Susan needs violin lessons. Look, we all need stuff. So you saying to your boss, like, I need it for this. Like heartstrings is not going, even though that is how you might feel. Yeah. And it might be so close to the bone. Sorry, the surface even. Bone and surface. There's nothing of you. It might be so. You're a mere ghost. As soon as you start talking about this, it might be so close in your mouth to be like, but please I can't. Please, I can't eat. You know, you might, but it's like, it doesn't matter. Like, everybody needs money. Like, your sob story is not going to help you here.

No. that you need to be like this is what I do. So first thing is like you want to obviously face to face, as CV has said, but send and don't, as we saw in that. To just walk in. That fantastic little dialogue. Vignette, if you will. Vignette.

That will be available as a standalone. A YouTube video. We will be filming it. And that will be available to peruse at your leisure again. One Blu-ray. And see. How are you. I have no idea what Blu-ray is.

I don't either. Don't know. I don't know. It's a DVD. But it's DVD and Blue-Rae. I know, it's like a fancy DVD that's like, I can't tell, I've seen both and I don't know the difference. Email first. Yes, to organise an appointment and say, hello, I'd like to come in to request a performance review. And I'd like to discuss my pay. So it's very clear. It's in the email. It's there. There's no like, so you're not going through this performance review where they're like, well, you seem to have done really well in your back of your mind. You're thinking, bring it up, bring it up and bring up the pay. You're just like, they know the pay's coming up. You know the pay's coming up. There's no like prank surprise. If you think, I think what I'll do is wait for the Christmas party

and then get them drunk and ask it at the photocopy. Bad, bad idea. Even though you're like, well, that seems casual enough. It doesn't matter. They might say any old shit. Yeah, it's not going to matter. Or you'll get emotional because they say no. And then you'll start crying about the violin lessons again.

Also, with the idea of like a performance review, often people have performance reviews every year, but I was reading that sometimes that can be too late because it doesn't match with when the budget is laid out or whatever. So yeah, it's good to like actually ask for like a separate, even if you do, even if you're like, well, I already get one, like every December. It's like, don't do it then. Do it now. Exactly. Do it now. And ideally, obviously, if the company's just gone into liquidation, not the time. Not the time.

But if things have just gone well, or particularly if your area has just done something good. And also pick your moment. So send your email and then suggest maybe some times. You want to go for a Wednesday has been statistically proven to be your hump day. Monday morning and Friday afternoon, your worst options. Of course. And going in after lunch, also optimum. Is it? Yeah. They did a study and also with pay rises but also unfortunately judges in federal prison and it's more sad you know what I'm scared that the robots are coming but in terms of judging things and like human error I think the robots will do a good a good job stevie yes and may sir is speechless she's read it speechless by the AI chat to say that when our robot overlords arrive that I for one welcome the court the court system will be completely revolutionary

You're absolutely right. We'll be dead, of course. The robots will have killed us. Well, some of us, perhaps, a few plucky podcasters, perhaps might be allowed to stay. Robots too listen. They love it. In the human, run the human camp or something. Yeah, sure.

However, if you have been given a time slot, and it is Monday morning, 11.30 or whatever, don't freak out and be like, but the lunch. Yeah, yeah, it's fine. It's neither here nor there. But if you can pick, you want to pick post-gris. Wednesday at 2pm. Wednesday at 2pm I'm practically giving out money That's my slot

I've had a frotata And I'm throwing this shit away Yeah so that's the perfect time to do it And then you want to say You want to have worked out your percentage So you want to work out So rather than being like Give me 3,000 more pay

Yeah, don't follow an accent Good tips Strong Give me on my pet I'm getting these directly from Paubs.com Don't just don't shout the amount of money. No.

Say I'm currently on, you know, 20,000 pounds. Work out in your own time. Don't do it in the room. Alive. They don't Google on that salary checker now. No. So work out what the percentages

that you'd like to go to and say like a salary increase of 8% I think would better reflect. Oh, that's excellent. And suddenly I say, you're not saying the vulgar numbers. I'm not saying some numbers. Exactly.

So there's no vulgar number. I'd fall about her. I know how to work out percentages. Yeah, but you will, my boyfriend does. And you do. And exactly. and I'll help you in between the time that you sent your classy email and actually going in the room.

Right, thank you. Or ideally even before. Yeah, probably. There's not, let's not, you know, give you any area to... Fuck up. To fuck it up. So, saying 8% suddenly is like, wow, this girl knows her shit. Also, it's not a round number, so it does look like you've actually...

Exactly. It's like, 10% place is like, yeah, anyone can say that. But who can work out 8% this girl's to work. Right? How much is 10% of 20,000 pounds? Oh, what? Is that we asked 2000? Is it 2000?

Yes, you take off a zero. Right. I don't need to help me anymore. No, I was just checking. I was testing you. Thank you. Is it? Or is it 200?

No, it's 2000. That's 2000, isn't it? And 1% is 200. Yeah. Great. Great. So work out how much you do need to be making at this job. And if that money, if it seems like it's so large that you're like, I wouldn't even give me that,

then be like, probably reassess. And then be like, okay. If you're working at like a startup that's like owned by like, you know, a really plucky single mom who's just like really trying and you're like, I would like 70,000 pounds because that's what someone in Silicon Valley does for this job. You're like, well, maybe move to Silicon Valley. Exactly. And if there's a reason that she tried to put you on like 24,000, and you do deserve maybe 32. Yeah. You know?

Exactly. And that's totally reasonable. So work out what the percentage is of that. Yeah. Not that. But yeah. I want you to go in for 2,000 pounds more. Oh, okay.

So, so you work out the faux percentage. Work out your faux percent. Right. And then when they... Yes, excellent. Great. See, I am equipped. Yes, but can you work out that percentage?

No, of course I can't. But you can get outside. That's why I work on the arts. Yeah, sure. And not the numbers to my dad's enormous chagrin. You work out your faux percent. Yes. So you go in too high.

Because they will say, hey, they say yes, in which case... Quids in. Or they go for slightly less and then they feel... You still quids in. You come down to the price you actually did want. They feel like they've still won. the person you are asked is probably not the the he's probably not Jeff Bezos you probably haven't gone directly to the CEO yeah probably gone to your line manager or the person above

you who then has to go to their boss to have something appraud we should have said that the start don't go to the don't go to the stuff just go to Jeff Bezos regardless of regardless of whether or not you work for Amazon don't just walk in there two final things is one that you write everything down so right terms of your what you're going to say in the room so your points yep we're both burping quite a lot I think it's not me it's just you You were holding in some burps in that last sentence. Yeah. And I was going to be like, do you want to say it again?

But I think we're just going to keep it in. And then I burped when I replied. Look, this episode has been sponsored by Crabys. It hasn't, but Crabbies do get in touch because we're having a great time. I love, I love me a crabby. It's because if anyone's interested. It's midday, guys. It's midday.

If anyone's interested, it's because it looks like a beer. Okay. And I don't drink beer. No. Because I'm a pussy ass bitch. That reason. But it's really cool to hold the bottle because you feel like you're having a beer. You're found like a man making a barbecue.

you, right? Yeah, you look like that. Thank you and that's my dream. Anyway, write your points down when you're going for your pay rise. So, writing down for yourself, I worked on this campaign, I got this client, this has been directly because of me. I'm also covering Janet's desk at the moment since she's been on maternity leave. Oh, wow. I'm so involved in this story. I'm like, my God, this person's been doing so well. And I've been doing Janet's role and that's fine for me. I'm happy to do it, but I do feel now I'm doing the job of two people. I would love for that to be reflected in my salary. And also having the notes doesn't make you look like you're unprepared. No. Everyone has notes when they go in for these like big meetings. Of course. So you don't,

don't like, I must learn all of it by heart. Like, have your little note, like in bullet points, write it in big writing if you need. And then, yeah. But then what you can also do once you've left the room, if they're like, okay, well, thank you so much. Let me get back to you. I'm going to throw the notes out and go. Fuck you a bitch! And then leave, moon walk out. Option. Option one. Email it to them. Oh yeah. Afterwards. So thank you so much for that meeting. Here are the minutes. I took the opportunity to minute the meeting. Just another example of the things I do at this office that go above and beyond.

No, thank you so much. To recap, just here are my main points. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you asking for me. But what that means is for the person you've been to see who's like, oh, I don't know, Stevie just wanted more money. They can't really remember anything. But they're like, oh shit, here it is all in writing for me,

for me to go to my boss and say, Stevie's done X, Y, and Z. Steve he's actually covering Janet's desk. I didn't realize. Who's Janet? I didn't know she'd gone. And there's the whole conversation about that for a long time. So they've then got those points for them to relay onto their supervisor or whatever.

And then the last thing is just if they say no. So if they say no. I haven't even thought of that as a possibility. So of course not. Because we went in so hard on this and we don't believe we're going to say no. But reasons they might say no. One, they hate you.

Sorry. One, they hate you. Two, there literally isn't any money. Oh, yes. That's genuinely a possibility. And they are sincerely like, sorry. You are working for below your pay grade.

We're really sorry, but there is no money at this company. And they're not just playing you of like a fiddle. They're literally saying, we haven't got anything. And you're like, yeah, I believe you. There's nothing here. There's ships going down.

That happened to me. Exactly. And so you're not like, and they're like, we know that you're working for less, blah, blah, blah. But there literally isn't any money. In which case, you can be like,

okay, I totally understand, but I really like the company. and I do want to stay. So what benefits can there be for me staying in this role? Right. So then you're like, okay, I didn't get the money, but can I work one day a week from home? Can I stop doing Janet's desk?

Can I... Can I come back, please? Can I be removed from this particular job that I don't like doing? Yes, some responsibilities that you feel like... Yeah, so if you're saying late at work every night, like it's not worth it if you're not getting paid more. So see if you can remove it.

Can I have an officially be the assistant club manager? Depends on what the job is. because if that might not be relevant in your role. So can I have a more exciting job title? Like the Lord. Can I be the Lord? Yes. The Wizard Baron.

The Wizard Baron of the old Kay in the law firm. Can I have a company car? Can I have some gym membership? Okay. So all these things. So if we don't think like no is just the end of the road. If there's literally no money, you can be like, okay. Or even as for a better sounding job title.

Yeah. Because that will help you. Like the Wizard Baron, I just said. Well, yeah. No, what I mean? like a not a joke one. So like then when you get that job title, you are more likely to be able to look for other jobs

because it sounds like... That is why I was saying it. I know, and then I ruined it by saying about the Wizard Cave, but also that was fun. You can't deny it wasn't fun, and that's my main thing. And that's Stevie in the meeting.

You can't deny it wasn't fun. I don't really work, but I am fun. And everyone's like, yeah. And I will leave now. Yeah, so you've got your new, classy new title. Great. So it's like, okay, I'm prepared to wait this out with this company because I do really like it here. I believe in what we're doing. I really love

my job. I like the people. I'm happy to take the job of manager and work one day less and take the company car or whatever or the gym or the holidays. Or leave. Okay. Yeah, exactly. Or number two, you're just like understood. You're just like, understood. I'm just like, I'm really sorry. I hope you all are on the same page here that I just can't be here. And they'll be like, absolutely understood. Give you a good reference. And you can be like, you know what? Because if that is how you're going in being like, I cannot afford to be here, then you have to be like, okay, no problem. I have to go and work somewhere else. And then number two is, that they, so they might say, no, because there's no money. And they might say, no, because we hate you.

Yeah. So if they say, no, you can't have any money, you're not any good. Okay. Which is something they might say. They might say, yeah. When you say, like, I did all these things. They might be like, yeah. That's your job. That's your job. You moron. And that's something that they genuinely might say. So don't freak out about it, but be aware and be ready. If you know for sure that you have gone above and beyond, then you don't need to be freaking out about them saying, no, you're crap. But just be aware that they might be like, okay, we didn't actually feel that that was

as good as maybe you think. Be like, okay, where would you like me to improve? And then be really clear with them of like, so don't just get upset even though you will feel like that. Just swallow that quickly. And in the room, be like, okay, totally understood. Where can I improve? And so they can say, we'd like you to do this, this.

this and this. And you're like, okay, understood, I will go and work on those. I'd really like to try. And I'd love to be seen again in six months for a review. Excellent. So then you can take that no and be like, it's a no for now. Yeah, yeah. It's not known for now. So you can come back in six months. You've clearly done exactly what they asked. And if you haven't, don't go back. No. If you didn't, we both know, it's not for you, you know. So if you know that you actually didn't do all these things that they ask, then you can quietly be like, you're right. I'm, I'm not. I'm a piece of shit. I'm a piece. I'm sorry. I'll take, I'll, I'll keep coasting along this job for the more money, you know, but if you did do them, then there's really nothing

they can do to argue with that because they've said, you aren't good enough, you've come back and been proved that and been like, I am, and now they haven't got a leg to stand on, they have to be like, yeah, you're absolutely right. Great. Here's a million pounds. I do feel like I can ask for a pay rise now. Me too, and I hope it's, like, de-mystified an element of it and also de-feared an aspect of it. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, I hope so too, because it is such a frightening thing. And actually, but it, when you unpack it, it isn't a frightening thing. Exactly, when you unpack it, it happens every day. It's so normal. the world and everybody... And it tends to be women that are frightened of doing it. Exactly. Women who don't believe they are and all these three people in my life have all been women.

Don't believe that they were. Who said like, you know, and one of them, after I was like, okay, you're going to go for this, go for the faux percent, et cetera, et cetera. She bottled it in the room. Went for less. Went for less. Oh no. The man, her boss said, no, you're an idiot.

Why are you underselling yourself and gave her more? Oh, that's nice. Which is so fantastic that he's a good guy. But he might not have been. But he might not have been. So like, and then she was like, oh. Yeah. Why did I, you know. feminism.

Exactly. So it's so easy to, to, we're so afraid of being, people thinking that we think too much of ourselves or that we're like, oh, she asked for this. She's like, well, yeah, think too much of yourself. Like, go ahead. It just makes you look better, more, more professional and more assertive. Because truly, the worst thing that happens is that they say no, well, they say less or or any of those things. And that's, that's totally manageable because they can't fire you for it.

Great. Well, I hope that helped. I think it, I think it must have done. We just shook hands. Tessa will be giving me a pay rise I'm thrilled with And yeah Tweet us or email us If you have an idea for a future podcast episode We are at Nobody PanicPod

Or email Nobody Panicpodcast at gmail.com Tessa, what's your Twitter handle? At Tessa Cote. Stevey, what's yours? At Stevie M, yes, it's a five And yeah, we'll see you next week And look, if you're thinking about asking

Stop preparing, do it. Oh God, we couldn't believe in you more Oh God! Oh God, mate, get in there, send that email, start prepping. Get those bunts. Get those sweet bunks. Get those sweet Benjamin buttons. Okay, bye-bye!