Nobody Panic - How To Ask For Help

Episode Date: November 27, 2018

Why do we feel like asking for help is a weakness? Stevie and Tessa look at why it's so important to ask for help, and how you can do it without feeling like A Right Twerp. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Thank you for holding my spot. Gina.

And we're talking about how to ask for help. Help! She bellows. I bellow into the microphone. We're also drinking the first mould wine of the season. Yes, we're having a mould. We're doing this above a pub, and we've got a mulled wine in a sort of tankered,

like an elf or something. Yeah, like an old elf. What adult thing have you done this week? Oh, it's this, baby? Oh, yeah. It's an iPad? It's an iPad. The case is also the keypad.

Just the one keypad. Yes, if those following my technological journey will know that my laptop, I spilled water on the laptop, thereby removing the number one, the number Q, the A and the Z, and the delete button. And I thought, I'll live without the Z, but it turns out A and delete were quite crucial. And also my password had an A in it. So I couldn't get in. I didn't know that.

Yeah, I couldn't get in. So then I bought myself, in fact my sister, over number, night Amazon primed me a little Mac keyboard. Perfect. She saved me. Thank you, Amy. And then I spilled water on that sometime later rendering the S, W and the 5 out of business. And so now I, the last time I saw Tessa was she'd come from Curries. Yeah. And she had this massive old PC the k-dunk-dunk keyboard just like hanging out of the top of a, poking out of the top of her backpack. We went to the book launch of our lovely friend Lauren Bravo, who's written an excellent book about the Spice Girls, which I read in 1-9.

It was amazing. But everyone stood around in these dresses, drinking their Brit pop cocktails, and Tess is charging around, like, people are docking. Because it's so big. And every time I tried to get out of a car, it bashed me back in. Like, because it was high. I was like a cat that didn't know how big it was, you know, so I was trying to get in places a cat that didn't know how big it was.

You know, a cat with no whiskers. I'd lost my, I lost my sense of how large I was. Sure. So the keyboard was throwing, launching me backwards. It's honestly so, it's twice. I'm surprised it plugged into your Mac. Yes, it just plugs in with a USB cord. Oh, that's amazing.

Isn't it amazing? It was 499. Curries, everyone, if you want to try. I would say, don't. Anyway, don't do it. Next time I see you. It'll be broken. You can have a typewriter plugged in to it.

Yeah, yeah, because I'll be like, sorry, that's gone now. That's done. That's the end. What is your adult thing? Right. Guys, if you've been following my journey, my life, about, was it like a few months ago? I said that my adult thing was I've started like cooking a bit more than normal. As in normally, I would not.

When I worked in an office, people would like bring in brownies and all that cakes and just be like, I made some. So I thought I'd bring them in and I was like, what are you doing? What? How? When did you do that? Also, whenever I wanted to do it, I never had any of the things. I remember the first time I watched Bake Off last year. I was living with my sister and I was like, oh, I don't like bake off.

And she was like, no, it is good. And within 10 minutes, I wasn't watching it because I decided to go and make a cake. And I didn't have, I didn't have a bowl. Didn't have like a wooden spoon. I didn't have anything. I wanted to make my mum a birthday cake for her 60th. And I was like, I actually this time can. I've never made an actual full cake for someone before.

I should say that the first few times I tried to bake were bad. I was bad at it. Absolutely. And felt quite confident. We went to the late distroats and I got a cake. And then suddenly I was like, but I don't have an electric whisk. well that's the end of that. I was like, no, buy an electric whisk.

You will use it again. And like, but I was like, so expensive. They're $5.99 from Argos. And I've been putting it off for ages being like, I'm not the sort of person. I'm not old enough to have an electric whisk. It's too much. The pressure.

Anyway, I bought it and it's really great. And I made brownies at the day and the best problems I've ever made because I'm not like spending 20 minutes punching mix with my fist. Right. Well, okay. So number one,

that's not how it goes normally anyway. Oh, really? Yeah, even with sans whisk. That's a real show. shame I've been doing a lot of kneading and also just like getting two spoons and trying to do like the whisk action in the bowl and then like doing my shoulders. Right. Okay. I put my back out one. I can see where some of the. Right. Okay. I didn't think I could own an electric whiz. I didn't think I was worthy of having electrical equipment. Yeah. I was like it's going to be about 20 quid and I could spend not on many other things, you know, like rent and life. But then I had to go to the doctor's case. Because you put back hurt. And then someone reminded me that I'd spent the previous 25,

I was just punching some flowers. Look, we're really getting to the numb of the issue. Well done. Thank you. Well done. My other things that always make me sound like a total mad person. No, no. No.

No. No. Own that space. I've never successfully managed to cook, you know, anything. Bake a thing. I feel like knowing you that it's not, that you're not good at it. Do you kind of go into it being like, well, I don't have this and this, but I'll be fine. 100% because.

Confidence. A confidence. And also always in the. recipe books, it's always like, I invented this recipe one day when I didn't have enough, you know, clove. So I threw in a banana. And also that's how they discovered penicillin, an accident. Making bacon cookies for a food website. And then they're like, oh, penicillin. So always, when I'm, this is what happens to me. I begin the bake. Firstly, I'm so sort of intoxicated by my, how I look, baking. I'm like, I can't believe, look at me go. It's going to be so delicious

when it's done. Then I start thinking two years ahead to the launch of my cookbook when I say this was the recipe that began that when I put in a clove and some soil instead of this thing and then I transfer and though that's what I'm thinking about and I'm not listening to any of the instructions yes the podcast episode is about how to ask for help um surprised I haven't done this already actually because it's quite a it's quite a big one so I thought also just to kick it off what I've stopped saying hey guys um like and subscribe and download the podcast and tweet about it if you like it to try and get the word out to as many people as possible because it makes me feel hot and sweaty because that in a way is asking for help

isn't it? Yes very much so but I think the how high your shoulders just went is indicative of how hard it is. They went over my head. Yes. That's me trying to kick it off by facing my fears. Help me, Tessa. Give me some advice. Do you ask for help? No. Great. A hundred percent not. And it's only something that I have recently discovered is a failing on my part. Right. That I'm unable to do it. that I'm not a very good person at asking for help. And when I do need it the most is when I like clam up. Like a clam. I clam up like a little clam.

So I thought we'd sort of explore some of the reasons to begin with why we aren't any good at asking for help. And the asking for help thing can be like you're a new parent and you need somebody to help you. You need more help at work. You are having a difficult time and you want to talk to somebody. You need help with your homework. The help can be literally anything. Everybody has something in their life that they would like some help with. It can even be asking your partner for more help, you know, with a particular thing that they go.

With your heart. I was going to say like with the dishes. Sure. Or like an area that you think like, this person doesn't help me on this thing. So I thought it was explore some of the reasons like, because obviously such a universal thing that we don't do it. Where does that come from? I think number one is this sort of perceived weakness. Big time.

We so want to be totally self-sufficient. I saw this quote that was like, we don't want to ask for help and reveal. reveal ourselves to be bruised peaches and not the shiny unspoilt apples we wish we were. Be a peach. Be a peach. Who cares? That's the main take home. If you remember nothing else from this episode, be a peach, not an apple, with no context. I prefer peaches. They're more related.

I've got a friend who had a really terrible tragedy in her family, literally a few days ago. I got this WhatsApp at about sort of 10 to midnight being like, hey, you awake. Nothing good comes after that. That is someone who needs some help. That's literally what my boyfriend said and I was like, I've never had that. I'm so sad. No one that's been like, hey, you up. You never committed to the casual hang and bang scene. I've not. But no, there's one thing about committing. No one's asked me. No one's been like, would you like to come and have a, rumpy, pumpy. I would argue, if I may, Stevie, that you, you've gone from several committed relationships. Oh no. And so, but the time, last time you were very

single was pre- WhatsApp. In fact, it was pre-the-abacus. It was, he was in the early 1800s. So that was the last time. So I think like partly it's... Cipolis was rife. You know, so no one wanted you around there. Cipolis. But you say you up, capital you.

Yeah. You up. Okay. You up is, hello, I'd like to have sex and are you awake as, hello please. Please can you help? I need help. Well, yeah, something very, very sad had happened. And she didn't know how to deal with it.

So I WhatsApp her and then after a while I was like, I don't think we should be watch something about this. And I was just about to call her then she called me. and then we had a chat. But the chat was basically her crying and saying, I'm so sorry for calling you. I'm not going to say because it's not my place to say, but imagine just like the worst thing ever.

Like it was such an objective tragedy that is so awful. And I'm spending the whole time being like, no, it's okay. Don't worry for calling. I'm your best friend. What would you be doing if not this? Like this is the exact thing you need to be doing. But then I'm exactly the same.

Yeah. I seem to talk because I talk a lot just in general. Like if you go, how are you? And I'm like, real bad actually. That doesn't happen Because I don't want to be boring And I don't want to burden somebody else Makes no sense considering

I don't know Well you'll probably have more on it But from my perspective I'm like Well it's supposed to be like A community of people And community is really important to us and stuff So why do we want to isolate ourselves

When there's pain But I guess it's not to show weakness Exactly when you've been on the Sorry I'm just really feeling this And I'm drunk Everyone she's not drunk Or could be She's had a mild wine

A tankered and a half of mold wine It's nice to be wanted that somebody has come to you with it, I think. It's nice to be able to be supportive and you feel quite strong in that moment, being able to look after somebody else. And like, it's, you know, apology is the least thing, last thing that you need. And yet it's impossible when you're on the other side of it to not be like, I'm so sorry, like, I'm so sorry. You must, what must you think of me or all of this stuff?

I'm sorry for disturbing you. You're like, who cares? I have friends who I have known since I was, you know, 11 years old where I think, what did we make friends about? Was it yo-yo or was it, and now, however many years later, 10, however many years later, it's less about your sort of mutual enjoyment as it is so much about like supporting each other through whatever it is you're going through. And that is what friendship is. And the older you get, the more like, not to be like, the worst things are. You have more experiences. You had just more

experiences and you go through more stuff and people will rock up in the middle of the night crying. And you mustn't apologize for feeling for like having, human emotion and going through human things. You can say thank you so much rather than I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah, actually that's true. Every time you want to go, I'm really sorry to be like, thank you so much for helping me. Thank you so much, yeah. And so the weakness thing

is in the, it's in the not wanting to disturb anybody. It's like, oh, I don't want to call them and cry. Like, it's this idea that like I should be this shiny apple and whether the shiny apple is at work, you're just absolutely so efficient. And you're the gold star pupil. And in friendship wise, you're like, I'm always the fun one. I'm the one that's got everything under control.

Whereas really, nobody can be that apple all of the time. Sometimes you have to be like, actually, I'm a peach. Or like half apple, half peach. Yeah. There's two, well, maybe there's more different times of asking for help. But it feels like one of the ways is emotional. Help me. I am dying here.

And then the other is help me do something because I don't understand how to do it. Like, I don't know anything technical. Also, we're in this lovely podcast studio. I've probably been here about 20 times. And every time I have to get the guy that runs, to show me how to do it. And every time I feel so stupid, I put off asking him.

Just like showing your peachy bruised bump being like, I'm a beach. I come in here with my ass out and ask him. Because it's such a girly thing. And I don't want to be vulnerable and I don't want to be weak and I don't want you to see that I can't do all the stuff. Like I want to be able to be playing Red Dead Red Dead redemption with one hand while like bleeding over the other.

We all want that. And then I got to have a go on Red Dead Red Dead redemption and I just got to ride the horse for a little bit. If you don't know, it's a computer game. It's very good. It was so difficult to do because I haven't grown up playing with that console. I don't know all the buttons and stuff. And also, I feel so defensive because I want to be amazing.

Like when I lied to everyone and said, like, I'm actually really good at Golden Eye, just because I thought it was impressive. And then someone was like, all right, let's have a game. And I was like, why did you say that? Because I was in a group of guys who were all quite, all the girlfriends were very, like, girlfriendy. If any of them said anything remotely interesting,

everyone would be like, what? Okay, that sort of vibe. And I was just so eager to not look like that. They were all talking about Golden Island. I think I just sort of went like, oh yeah, yeah. And my own boyfriend at the time was like, you don't play Golden Eye. And I was like, yeah, I do. I'm actually really good at it.

And then my bluff was called so astonishingly. Oh my God. And immediately. Immediately it was like, well, let's put it on. And I'm like, actually, I don't think I've ever been so warm in my life. And then I had to say that I'd lied so that everyone would find me more interesting and trying to make it a joke. And actually, everyone found it really, really funny.

They didn't detract from the fact that I'd lied. And because I was so unable to go, like, no, I can't play golf. I don't know. Like, it's horrible. The whole thing is so stupid. But that is, feeds into the same thing of like,

I can bleed a radiator, I can fix a boiler. You want me to make a table? I'll make you a table. I don't know how to do any of those things. I don't have any hammers. I remember telling somebody at school that I could do a backflip.

And then... That's not surprising. You're just like, go on them. Like, there's no... There's no out from that. It's an instantaneous. You've got to pick Liza.

But I didn't know he had golden eye. No, exactly. But I suppose you knew that there was a ground. But if it comes from the same place, that you like so want to be able to appear, so efficient, so good. Especially, yeah, it's in like a laddie environment. You want to be that girl who like sits down with one knee up.

The fetishization of like gamer girls. A pint of beer, please. Yeah, she's drinking a beer. She's got like a bottle of beer and a cool hat. She's eating like loads of junk food, but she's really thin. Yeah, she's a fetish. She's a, she's a fictional girl. The cool girl, the Gillian Flynn book, the Gone Girl.

Yeah. And she has that great paragraph that when I read it, I was literally like, I don't think I've ever wanted to cheer so much about like the cool girl that men think exist. We all think exist. We all men think she exists and we all want to be it. We want to be perceived as this like for me for a while she is the

girl with the plat from Indiana Jones very specific reference but like she's like efficient and she hasn't got she's running and she's like doing I mean she's the love interest but like she's nonetheless as like efficient girl but my parents were like that's a good girl and I was like okay great. You're watching that's a good girl

That's a good girl, be like that girl. And I was like, understood. Yeah, they're always, all those older action heroes. They always go for, like, the girl that's like, she works in, like, the lab. But then it's just, she's always screaming up the tower by the end of it, unable to do anything. And she's also not applied any of her intelligence to the plot. It's just they've just shown that she's in a lab once to be like,

she's got more to her. Yeah. She doesn't. Yeah, she's got more to, but none of it will be relevant here. No, with everyone else who has skills. Get that hair out of that bun and crack on. and crack on. Crack on.

May I just say a thing about video games? Yes. I truly believe, and please, your comments are welcome. At Nobody Panic Pod, tweet us.

Tell me I'm wrong. But I truly believe that the way video games are designed is a particularly male mind skewed way of movement. Sometimes you would like push a button in one direction

that actually makes you go the opposite way. I fully agree. So it's not a naturally intuitive thing to do. It makes you immediately look like an idiot when you pick them up and you're like, and then your character just like runs straight into the wall.

Or, oh my goodness, oh, I found it. I have searched back in my mind to find where it comes from. Some cousins and me at like one of those like boxing day dudes where they just like chucked you in a room and closed the door. You know, many, many small cousins. Boxing day. And they said, do you want to play this game? We're all playing this like football game.

And I was like, yeah, yeah, fun. And I sat down. I'm like six years old. I was the goalie. I picked up the ball and I threw it in. to my own net. And then they just took the console off me and I was never out to play again.

And I, yeah, never really, never truly recovered. Well, if you heard the thing about, so, you know, if you've got like one of those, I mean, all laptops kind of have this, like the kind of pad. Yeah. Guys apparently scroll in a completely different way. So you can either scroll, it's difficult to explain.

But you know, like, so I will... Scroll up for up or down for down. But they can go down for up. And every guy. Not all men? Not all men. Hashtag not all men scroll that way. Not all women.

you might have, but it's possible to say, not all Macs. Not all Macs, hashtag not all Mac. But you might skew one way or the other and it is more likely. And what's interesting is that whenever a guy will use my Mac, they will never go like, oh God, I can't use this, that's what I do.

I kind of panic, whereas they just go, your Mac is wrong. This is inherent confidence. They're all very large stereotypes that have a kernel of truth in there, particularly of like an older generation, they were like, we don't ask for help, we get things done, we are self-s,

sufficient and I think it bleeds into both genders but it is often more heavily in a male one well like men are less likely to go to the doctor yes we've got symptoms and women are like fine being like oh what's this rash much less open to the concept of therapy much less open to the concept of like discussing their problems with anybody it's all wrapped up in that same idea of like I must not be weak and I am self sufficient and I can do this on my own we just have to all acknowledge that that is it's useless wasted energy to believe that about yourself and to try and get through it on your own. And you just have to acknowledge in yourself like, oh, that's where that comes from.

Of course that's there. I've been told this very clear instruction to like be efficient, not be a burden, not be a bother. Like we praise and we laud people that just like, oh, how efficient. They just did it by themselves. I never feel like when someone makes a practical help request. I don't feel that they're weak at all. No, exactly. Oh, yes, I know how to do that. I can help.

Exactly. There's a thing like when you're on the other side of it, you never feel those things that we place on ourselves. Like we've got to be kinder to ourselves in this. And if you look at like people accepting their Oscars or like the back of the book, you know, acknowledgement. Like read how long those acknowledgements are. Like people are thanking people because so many people were involved in the thing they were trying to do.

Yeah. I read a couple of tips I thought were quite useful. One was sometimes it makes you feel better if you can demonstrate that you've tried to help yourself before. So if you're like, I tried this, I tried this, but I just don't know how it's going to work. And be like, do you have any ideas? that is maybe a better way than being like, I don't know how to do this, can you help me?

Yes. This and this didn't work. Any thoughts? Yes, great. So you've like clearly demonstrated, I've had a Google, I've read the handbook, I've done all this stuff. Read the handbook.

Read the handbook for heaven's sake. And you've clearly shown that you have given it a good go. Yep. This is one thing, which I don't think is very good, but I just like the phrasing. One tip says, use the foot in the door or the door in the face technique.

Very nice. What? Foot in the door technique. If you're not sure if the person is going to help you or you're not sure if what mood they're in or whatever, you can ask someone to do like a quite small request before you make a bigger request. And the door in the face technique is the reverse.

When you make a large request, get denied and they make a smaller request, which seems more reasonable. Door in the face is a technique. Both are techniques. Or door in the face sounds dumb. It sounds so stupid, doesn't it? I don't understand why you'd be like, do a massive request.

Are they saying that's a technique? Are they saying, don't do that? They are saying it's a technique. So that's like, would you give me a kidney? No. Could you help me with this PowerPoint? Yeah. Yes, I can because they feel bad for not being able to help.

That is so silly. It's so manipulative. That feels like that's erring towards more like the Machiavelli, like how to manipulate people. Yeah, which I don't think... Which you think is a different kettle of fish. Yeah, massively. So basically, I want to say, don't do that.

Use it in the workplace if that is something that you need to do. A little one, followed by a big one, it's probably a good idea. Yeah. But then, to be honest, I also don't like that one either because I feel like, if I'm going to ask for help, I don't want to ask for help twice. It's bad enough being like, I can't do this. You know, I can't do this. And also I can't do this.

this. Also just get rid of all playing games. Like in a relationship, rather than being like outed as the person who keeps asking for a kidney before they ask for a pen. Like just, you know, well, A, buy a pen. Just buy a pen. Just buy yourself a pen. But also, you know, just be open. One nice thing, if you're somebody that gives a lot of help, then when you ask for it, both you and the other person will feel fine giving it. Yes, I guess if you are the sort of person who it's ringing true for the idea that you wouldn't want to ask for help because you wouldn't want to be a bother, then your instructions are. are in the like, just be open, be vulnerable,

but we go ahead. If you're the sort of person who's like, I ask for things all the time, what's the problem? Maybe check in and be like, hey, do I give enough back? Like, do I, is this a reciprocal thing? Or do I just demand stuff? Yes, because then it's diminishing returns

if someone's just continually asking for help, then people will be less likely to help. And also, are you always asking for the same thing? Like, we probably... No, depend, need a pen, need a pen. We probably should just learn how the studio works. Yes. Oh, yes, that is true.

What I should do is write down. down the instructions that he gives me. Clearly, yes, we should do that. I was going to say we should write the door code on the door, but that eliminates yes to the instructions. Then even better than that, let's openly thank Johnny, acknowledge how helpful he is. Yes, he is sorry.

Let's send him a Christmas basket. A Christmas basket? To say... Of door codes. Yeah, no, of like, thank you so much for always looking after us. Fruit, maybe. So if you are like, oh, shit, I do always ask for help for that thing, acknowledge it.

Yes. So the person will be like, oh, how nice. I suppose the ones that I said were more like practical, but do you have any more like emotional side advice? One of the things, and this is something that comes from like couples therapy, but is something to be used universally. Universally. It's to try and imagine that you are just one of the collective human whole and all the problems are sort of separate from you. And so therefore we're all just trying to fix all of the stuff. And so like imagine the problem is separate from you and then it's okay to say like, hello, can you come and help with this?

Right, rather than help me because I'm a man. Help me because I'm a mess more like this is a problem for even though it's obviously an internal problem and it's not everyone else's problem to deal with. Try and skew that idea that like it is everyone's problem because you're a person. And these people love you or are strangers or whatever. But like everybody is just in it now trying to help. Yeah. And so try and see it as a as a separate thing. No matter how personal or internal it is.

It's an it and everybody can be part of it. If I separate myself and just say like the goal here is to get the best possible mark or for this PowerPoint presentation to be the best it can possibly be for the good of the company or like for this thing I'm working on to be the best possible thing. Therefore if I stepped away from it, well I need to bring in the experts. Like I need to make this thing the best it can possibly be. Rather than being like, oh, that's a failing on me if I don't do it on my own. Separate yourself and be like, huh, of course I would bring in the big guns.

Yeah, delegating is very normal and very expected. And very expected. That's like that thing of, if you're struggling with something emotional, pretend that your best friend is having that problem. What advice would you give to them? And obviously when you're in the middle of it, it's like, I don't care for your technique. Yeah, exactly.

But like, it is helpful. Because it's just objective, isn't it? It's removing the failure from it, because there's no failure in not being able to do something. If we could all do everything, then what would be the point of literally anything? Exactly. And crucially, like, we can't. Like, you can't do all of the stuff.

Apart from me, I can. Oh, can you? Yes, I can do everything. Apart from golden eyes. Apart from Golden Eye. She also is just going to recommend Amanda Palmer's book, The Art of Asking. And also she has... I've read that!

Oh, you have? It's so good. Great. Yeah, it's really, really good. Have you read the whole thing? Yes, I have. The main take home is that she never used to ask for help. And now she...

And now she can. But that kind of is it. And also just in life as well, like she talks a lot about relationships and asking for the love that she thinks she deserves. And for years she didn't. And that kind of stuff. It's really good. Did I tell you about the J.K. Rowling thing?

Please, and all ears. There was this amazing book, if you're in Terry Potter. If you're not, you won't care for it. But the story remains relevant to you. It's called The History of Magic, and it's in conjunction with the British Museum that had that exhibition. I don't know if it's still going on. I hear it was wonderful.

But yeah, I really wanted to go, and I just didn't. And that's the end of the story. One section is the original opening to the first book. She's handwritten it. And you can see it's completely different to how it ended up, like not even a bit the same. really. And then the best bit is then on the next page, the sixth books, by this point, she's a millionaire and the books are incredibly successful. There's a chapter from the sixth

book. Her editor has gone through and like cross things out and gone like, you've over explained here or crossed out and gone, you haven't actually mentioned this. So that reference needs to go here. Amazing. And you kind of go like, of course, you don't think that J.K. Rowling had an editor. No, we just imagine her like in her little cafe, just magicing it all out. Yeah. And she did. She knew the arc of the whole thing and she is, I think she's a genius. Yes. But everyone needs another iron staff.

But there were so many people involved in that thing. And also, crucially, it makes it better. Makes it better, yeah. Otherwise, we'd only have that handwritten thing. Yeah, and the first chapter was so like, explain, like, Hagrid turns up to the Mughal Prime Minister's office and just explains the whole thing about Harry Potter. And it was like, oh, wow, you needed to not know what was going on.

You needed, like, them to drop a baby off. Boy, who lived? Who is that? and you need to have this mystery. And so all of the story was there and perfect. It wasn't the right way to tell it. And so obviously it feels like that's very specific advice. So anyone listening is writing a book about wizards.

You can take that. I think it's for. But it's for everybody. Everything. Everything. Like no matter what it is, sharing your idea with somebody will make it better. Oh, God.

All the time. Or asking for advice or anything. Like having a second pair of eyes on anything. And equally like sharing a problem, the moment that it's like out of your head, it's like sharing a drawing. dream that scared you that suddenly you're like, oh, it's silly. It makes less sense now.

But when you could sit with that in your head all day and be like, oh, God, this dream. And then as soon as you try and vocalize it and get another person involved, it's so clearly sensible and it's so right. And I don't know why we're so bad at it. Yeah, it is really weird. It's because those other fears that you've said about, about being weak and people not thinking you've got it under control are just that little bit stronger than the logic of obviously bring in as many people as possible.

Maybe it's because we only ever see the finished product at the end. We only ever see JK Rolling looking smiling and happy and collecting awards and things. We didn't get to see her having a breakdown in the middle. We don't see the behind the scenes. You only ever see the finished product. So I guess when you read a book, you're like, this is how it came out. Exactly. Literally just a stream of conscience out of the head.

I found a notebook I'd written when I was maybe six when you just confidently wrote a book. God, I confidently wrote so many books. So many boats. You illustrated them. And as far as I can see, you just wrote. Like, there's one bit where they've said, like, but what shall we do? And then they're cats, they're cats and a gang. And they're like, we should do something.

And I've written like, but what? I don't know anything. And then I've crossed that out and then put, I've got a plan. And then next scene, they're in a goldfish shop. But not clear. Then the story ends. So I didn't make it to the end. So clearly I ran out of steam.

However, I just confidently started writing and off I went. Editing and all of that wasn't. even, I remember. No, the discovery of what editing was. I really put a dampener right on the process. Boring. I remember my dad saying that like when I was three, I was like, I want to write a book and he was like,

lovely. I was like, no, I want to write one now and I couldn't write. I hadn't learned how to write yet. And so then I dictated and he wrote the words and then I did the pictures and I was like, it needs to be a hardback. So I mean, did like a cardboard thing. And I've still got it. It's called like the princess

and the car or something. Fantastic. And it's a complete book. You could just churn them out in an afternoon. I just churned it out in an afternoon. But it was that thing of that, yeah, that I like confidence. Well, I can't, just because I can't actually, like, I don't know how to write. I know how to speak.

I'll speak my book and someone can write it. That's the sort of logical problem solving that me and as an adult was really missing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's return to that confidence of Stevie, age three. Because where does it get broken down? Where did it get broken? Because look how, you just went to your dad and you said, dictate this now.

Like, this is gold, please. Quickly before it. Come on. Roy, get in here, Roy. Whereas now, can you imagine being like, Dad, take this down, it's my new idea. I wouldn't show him anything. No, you would never say anything. We get really into that, like, when this, then, that,

like, when somebody gives me a book advance, then I'll be able to do it. Yeah, I'm like, when I've got loads of money and I've got six months of free time, and also I've got, like, I've hired a hype man, then I'll start writing my novel. But actually, you just have to acknowledge, you'll never have to be like, and now.

It is time. It is time. The quick you can make your peace with that, the easier it will be. Easier is. And also get help. This one was so in the forefront of my mind because I'm supposed to be finishing some work for some grownups who I respect. And I so wanted to be the golden shiny apple. I so wanted to be this like princess that was like, writing, that's not hard.

Oh, like, I just finished this in my sleep. Here it is. I was intoxicated with the vision of myself discovering penicillin. It's all about the gap between where you actually are and where you believe you should be. And I heard a quote that was like, the larger that gap gets, the easier it is to fall in it. Oh my God, that's amazing as a quote. Isn't that good? Grandmother Willow.

Yes. And then the harder that thing is like, I'm supposed to be here and I'm not here. And then you get yourself lost in this bit. And so you just have to be like, forget that. This is where I actually am. And of course it will be better if I put my hand up and say, hello, please. I would love this, this, this and this. The love of God help me.

And this is also something I'd like to discuss right at the end is that it is easy for people to offer help. Like those grownups had said to me, and let us know what you need. But it had been said in such a like abstract way that I was like, well, what I need is a hug. Like what I need is if they had said, let us know if you want someone to help you write. Exactly. Someone to be there just to show you the city. Exactly. They were like, A, B, C and D.

Like, here are your options of thing. They were just the abstract of like, we're here for anything. Call me any time. Like it's so, it's like, oh, thank you, but doesn't help me. And it's hard to be, because I have been it for other people. I have walked in and been like, right, we need this, this, this and this. We're fixing this. And it's so clear when you're the outside person.

But internally, it's very hard to be like, what do I need now? Yeah. And so I think my last piece of advice is, you know, apart from the A, just put your hand up and say, you don't have to know what the things are. You can just put your hand up and say, I'm struggling here. I actually don't know what I need. And it's okay to ask for help. And it will feel so freeing and good the moment that you do.

And also it will be solved. like they will find what it is that you need. And the other thing is, and I think everyone should do this right now. Just think of anybody in your life, they can be a colleague or a friend or a family member or someone that is below you at work or above you, I guess. Text your boss.

Not them. But like anybody in your life that you think like, oh, I wonder if they're okay. WhatsApp them right now and say like have a physical thing. And so ideally for somebody who's like, you think he's not having a good time. Because, you know, when your friends are going through rough times, you know, you see people putting things on the internet

and then on Facebook it's full of quotes that's full of people being like, let me know what you need, let me know what you need. And of course, like, if the person had then said, I need X, Y and Z, they would be right there. But it's very, very hard to actually know what that X, Y, and Z is. So instead, be the person who's like, can I offer X, Y, and Z? Yes. So text or don't even offer, just like rock up and put some, you know,

macaroni and your friends break in. That was one of the things. I did a really great podcast of the day called Griefcast. It sort of helped for people who've lost somebody. And one of the things that someone said in the Q&A was like, what can people say to help when you're grieving? One of my friends was on it as well, and he was like, I find that action to the most important things.

And when you go and see them bringing some food that you've cooked and that they can just pop in the freezer, like that is like a thing that you've identified to be like, that might be something they not be doing for themselves. Cooking might not be something that they want to do. And obviously that's like a very specific example. But with everything, like if you know somebody who's like, I don't know, struggling with like confidence or something,

and it's got like a thing coming up that they've got to speak in front of a meeting and they're a bit frightened. Yeah, and you know. Should we go through that thing? Do you want to practice this on me? Because I remember you mentioned that you were worried about it. So let's like hang out and you can practice on me.

Exactly right. And the more that you can make the abstract concrete, the easier all those things will become. And so even though you're like, oh, my friends having this really rough time, be like, I wish they would call me. You're like, they're never going to do that. So you have to just call them or you have to say,

hey, do you want to go to the pub or do you want to just sit quietly? Shall I come and sit quietly near you? Shall I come up your elbow? Shall I hold your knee a bit? Like, do you want this? Or like if someone's, yeah, exactly someone at work being like, shall I help you practice? Or like, you know, if you've got a new person at work that you can see is like

desperately trying to keep it together but really doesn't like, just go over and say like, do you want to go for lunch? Yeah, do you go for lunch? Can I show you how this PowerPoint thing works? Like, do you know how everything? And try and stay away from, and obviously amazing that you've even got to step A, which is do you need any help? But go one step further and be like specifically with this.

Yes. And maybe they'll say like, gosh, no, I don't need that, but I would love this thing. you've made that once you put the foot in the door. Then you can kick the door in their face. Then you can cook the door in the face. The door of help though. Yeah, and then off from the door. If you've got any great ideas for offering help or asking for help or an example of a time

where you refuse to ask for help but then you did ask for help. And it was great. And it was a fairy tale ending. Yeah. We'd love to know them all. Yeah. Or if you have ideas for future podcasts at Nobody Panic Pod. I'm at Stovium.

The SSA 5. I'm at Tessicoat. The Gmail is. PANICPodcast at gmail.com. We love reading all of your emails. We do. We would love your help if you wanted to rate and subscribe and review it or recommend us to anybody.

A little Insta story. Oh, we do love seeing all your stories. Yes, it's nice. And if we may, thank you for all your enormous support. Yes, that's true. So we're not just asking for your help. We're also saying it means the world to us. And we love that people like it.

And I did a live podcast without Dessa And the technical experience was absolutely horrific And everyone there was so nice All the like, it was just so supportive and so lovely And it just made me be like, oh, thank God Because if it wasn't, this would have been an awful night But I had a lovely time doing it. So yeah, thank you.

And I'm just going to say thank you Stevie For organising things and for looking after stuff While I was away. Sure. Thank you for helping me. Stay warm. Stay warm, stay focused. And ask for help.

Bye, bye. Bye!