Nobody Panic - How to Back Yourself

Episode Date: April 19, 2022

Stevie and Tessa discuss how to stick to your decisions - especially when they've turned out not quite as expected- and graciously accept when things haven’t gone great. Crying and yelling “I'M SO SORRY I'M AN IDIOT” aside. Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicSubscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicRecorded by Naomi Parnell and edited by Clarissa Maycock for Plosive.Additional editing by Naomi Parnell.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Hello, welcome to Nobody Panic, the fun podcast where we help you to do things. I'm Stevie.

If you're listening thinking, wow, there's something about the audio quality and rapport today that feels, if anything, too raw. Yes. We're in the same room. For the first time since March 2020. We don't know what to do with ourselves. Normally there's the safety of a screen. We've had to put our trousers on. I haven't.

Some of us have. No, I've always had my trousers on for you out of respect. We're in this. same room, we feel very professional. So professional. Thank you very much to Ploseth, who are our producers, who are just... The best. The best. Welcome. I think today we're going to be doing how to back yourself, and we're going to be specifically looking at backing yourself when you've made, like, a decision. Because you know, we've talked a lot about, like, put yourself out there, you know, say what you feel, what you want to go for dinner, but what happens when you go, hey, everyone,

let's go here. And everyone goes there. and it's terrible and it's too expensive and the food's disgusting. And everyone's like, I could have gone to literally any of the other places, but Stevie had just listened to herself to an episode on Nobody Panic and really went for it. No one wants that. And also it was a suggestion for us by Sarah, Hello Sarah. And there was many facets of her message, but one of the things that she wanted to find out how to do was how to stick up for herself

and standing up for herself when having to like explain her decision. decision making behind something, which I think is very tricky. As soon as someone says, like, why have you done that? You're like, I don't know. This is the thing and it immediately crumbles. There is an interesting study about when you suggest an idea and someone says, great idea or I agree or this is my opinion and someone responds, you both get a delicious little dopamine hit.

Do you? Which is why you are, feels like so awful in a relationship when you're like, I think we should paint the wall blue. And they're like, I hate you. It's because you're like, but I'm used to getting a lovely bit of, you know, So therefore, of course, we like, we love for people to agree with us. But when someone, you're like, I think we should do this and they say why, you're like, just say that you like it.

Please just agree. I suppose it's because when someone agrees with you painting the wall blue, they're telling you that your ideas about colour and walls are good. And all we want to know is like that our thoughts are good ones. Yeah, right? The speed at which you go from like, oh, this idea is shit to I'm a piece of shit when someone hasn't agreed is. so quick.

Nanoseconds. Before we get into it, what's the most adult grown-up thing you've done this week? Mine is that ages ago I discussed, my adult thing was that I had signed up to this free trial of something. And I was very excited about it. And you were like, well, don't forget to unsubscribe. And I was like, yeah, obviously. And then a listener messaged me on Instagram after it came out and be like, hey, I'm just

getting here, but I think you've probably forgotten to unsubscribe. And I was like, motherfucker. Yeah, I had. I had forgotten to unsubscribe. And so it was such a sweet thing of them to do. Just be like, just, hello, I think I know you from listening. And I get a general sense of your temperament. You've forgotten to do it. Anyway, and then I signed up to a free thing the other day. I put an alarm in my calendar. Yes. And I don't like to do things like that because putting things too far in the future makes me feel slightly sick. So I think, like, lots to unpack. So much to unpack. Yeah. Okay, so have you ever got a new passport and you look at the passport and it doesn't expire for like 10 years? Yes. And you're like, wow, that day, imagine where I'll be or what I'm doing. Oh, wild, yeah.

Okay, so I feel like that, but things are just a week away. Yeah, that's hard to live your life. Yeah, it's really hard to live your life. Yeah. So it's why I don't put things in the calendar sometimes and I don't do stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. And then I was like, I think, pal, I think you've got to get over this.

So if any of that is resonating with you, if you do feel sick about the future, it's really, really helpful, pop the old alarm in and I saved myself the money and I felt brilliant. Is that why you don't have a diet really or an appoint? It's one of the reasons, yeah. It's up there. I just don't like to think when things are too far away. Okay.

I know it's bad, isn't it? I'm really my own worst enemy. Bad is not the word. It's just I don't know how you live. A statement people have said to me on more than one occasion throughout my life. People have just been like, wow, how do you get through the day? I'm being like, look at the state of me. I don't know.

I don't know. Living in the present, baby. So, way too present. Way too present. Stevie, what is yours? Okay, so I've mentioned before my journey with coffee. I had a coffee about six months ago, and I think I did it just before the podcast,

and the episode that we recorded was absolutely wild. And you found it very amusing. We all found it very amusing because I was like, now I'm a coffee woman, and I went from no coffee. at all ever to a coffee with an extra shot sometimes four coffees a day and remembered the other day that the reason I don't drink coffee is because it makes me incredibly tense by the end of the day so that I can't do anything and stressed and upset now I can't have coffee anymore

So I've stopped having coffee and now I have decaf, but I don't really see the point in that. Because the whole point of it was to be like, it's like a sports announcing drug for life. Gabby in the morning and suddenly I'm awake. Now I'm tired again, but in a way isn't being an adult, being really tired all the time. Well, what if you just had it in just the morning? No, I have it in the morning. I have one, like, I'm sort of being over the top of about saying four. The most I'd ever have is like one in the morning because I...

And it affects you all the way through until you can't go to sleep. I'll be absolutely fine and feel amazing. And then I started to realize that I was just, yeah, shaky and tense. And I remember that that was literally exactly what happened the last time. So I don't know why I didn't remember that. Yeah. You've got to remember. But it takes apparently seven years for me to forget.

Yeah, it's very tough. Well done. Hey, well done. And you've made a decision. And you know what? I'm so tired. You've backed your... Yeah, I know.

Back to my sad self. Okay, here we go. How to back your decision? So I think it's really difficult. when you put yourself out there and especially, obviously we've used like painting a wall blue, but they're not the ones you actually, well, you do.

They're the easier ones. The harder ones are when you've made like a big decision at work and the impact of your decision has meant, let's say, I don't know, my God, someone's like lost their job or like you've just messed up a big project. Or you look back and go like, we moved house and actually it didn't work out. I've got a friend who's just, who bought a house, and then they've had to go back to renting.

And that's a really hard thing to do when you really think about it, because it's just like, you feel like you've made this big jump forward. And she was very much driving that. And he was very much like, oh, I'm a bit nervous because I don't think we can do this. And it turns out they can't do this. And that's one of those things you go, oh, how annoying. But when you're actually living it, my God, that would be really hard. I think one of the first things that is so important with all of these things

is to accept that you are sad about it and that accept that it's a bad decision and that you feel and all of those feelings that you feel like resentful of the person for telling you, like I told you so, feeling stupid, feeling small, like, naming the feelings is the first good way of like moving. Because then you can be like, here are the four things I feel. How can I deal with that? Whereas where you've got this overwhelming horror. and you're or you pretend that you're fine.

I think a lot of the world is in a bad place because people keep making decisions and then just pretending they're fine and styling them out. I think there's, you've made a decision, you thought it was going to be a good one. Options. Bad, you know it, everyone else knows it. Everyone else thinks it's bad.

You still think it's a good decision. I don't think it's ever happened in my life. So I think there's a different thing. When you've made a bad decision and you know it and everyone else knows it, you don't need to back yourself, you know, in that one. and you don't need to double down. Exactly like you're saying,

lots of the world's problems are people attempting to style out what is clearly a bad decision when it would be so much better if we had just a better culture of people being like, oh, I put my hands above my head, I've absolutely fucked up there. I do apologise, I hope we all learnt something, I really apologise, let's start again.

And that's such an important skill to master. But if you do think it is still good, even in the face of other people thinking it's not, that's where you have to back yourself to be like, I think this is still good, you know? Yes, definitely. So it's like the, you know, she's made a decision to buy a house and it's not worked out and she had to go backwards. It's like, hey, you still tried something and you still, it was a good idea at the time or whatever.

You made the decision with the best information that you had, with the best intention you possibly could. Like, you were trying your best and in the light of it turning out poorly, that's not your fault. But it literally is. But it literally is your fault. Yeah. But that's okay because I think it's, yeah, like about you're saying about really. reframing it so it's like at the time you did your best and you made the decision and we can never ever know what the right decision is at any point at any point yeah exactly so if it's like as long as

in the moment you didn't just like draw a thing out of a hat and even if you did that was your that was playing the hat for god say but if that was you being like I think this is the best way to make this decision and then be like hey we've all learned something and now we can move forward with that information but you you did your best at the time you know and that's a huge thing to be able to tell yourself and not just be like I'm a piece of shit this has gone badly I'm a piece of shit it's like this has gone badly but I was doing my best yeah and especially it affects other people that's the thing that I find very difficult if I've like forced something through and then other people are affected by it as well you just feel so bad for everyone else but this is a psychologist

know a consultant called Dr. Benjamin Ritter. And he says, take a step out of the emotions and stress and really look at the fact of the situation. What is currently happening? What do you really want? And how can you work towards that goal given the situation you're in?

So, for example, you've made the decision so it's meant that you can't do what you want to do or it's not worked. But you can still get there via a different path. So sometimes a really good way of sort of backing yourself is to go, okay, well, I can still get there.

Like, how can we get there? And then almost like resolve the, should we say, consequences of the decision that you've made, whether that is like, I painted the wall blue anyway because I've backed myself, even though you said it wasn't good and it looks horrible, paint it again. Exactly. It's that thing of painted again, but also be brave enough and confident enough in yourself to be like, I couldn't tell it was bad until it was done. Like, how else was I going to know until we painted it?

And I'm sorry it cost us some money, but we're here now and I'm fixing it. It feels relevant. It feels, you know, I've done it. it. And by thinking like there is, you know, I think not to bring our government into this so quickly if I think everybody has watched mostly men make a terrible choice. It clearly be wrong. Seeing in their eyes, they know it's wrong. And then them lie repeatedly as their way out of it. Just please say this was the wrong colour. It's hard, isn't it? Because you see people doing that and it works. Because they'll probably get in again. No one's been tired. Like it actually just,

Yes, you're right. So that's what's hard. It's that kind of, and if it's from the top down, you go like, well, it does work. It's so tricky, isn't it? It's short term, not long term. Yeah. I think you're absolutely right. When we look at people in positions of power who are signing this out with no apology whatsoever,

we're like, why don't I just try that? But I think we at our grassroots new program used to just start a new culture where we just put our hands above our head and say, I'm sorry, that was wrong, and I am fixing it. Yes, I'm fixing it. Or, you know, here's what we can do to fix it. And also, you know, you can be honest about your intentions. And that's really helpful when someone makes a bad decision and it affects you. And you're like, oh, for God's sake, man.

Like, why did you do that? You want to know that they did it for the right reasons. For the right reasons. Whereas when people just style it out, you never know why they did it. Then you can just think that they're an asshole or whatever. Yeah. So that's like your initial example of like you've decided where to take the group for dinner. You've got there.

Clearly a mistake. Firstly, can we move? Can we just be like, guys, let's put our menus down. Say, so sorry, we actually have another engagement. We forgot, it's the cricket. And then leave the restaurant. Always use the cricket. Sorry, we've got to get to the cricket.

And then you leave the restaurant. And if not, and you're in now and it's irreparable. Just say to the group, guys, I'm so sorry. And I'd be like, look, I looked it up on Google. It had all these fantastic reviews. I thought we could do this. I'm really sorry. And which everyone would be like, listen, not to worry.

We'll have a funny time. What a funny story. Yeah. But when you sit there and be like, I'm loving this actually. This is fantastic. That's when you're like, now everyone's having a tense and terrible time. If we just get better at being like, I'm sorry, but this is why I did it. I wasn't trying to make a bad choice.

I was trying my best. Here's my information I had at the time. Because in that environment, say you've decided to go, you've said like, let's go somewhere for dinner and we get there and it's awful. I'll just want to make it like, I love it because you feel bad for the person who's made the decision. But then everyone hates it. So actually it really is up to the person who's made the bad decision. to just sort of go, it's okay. Like, yeah, let's move on.

Let's go somewhere else. Let's fix this. And also as well, there's an element of backing yourself when you've made a decision that is the bit before. It's you even know it's a good or a bad one where you're like, I'm going to do this. Oh, no, I do. Or not.

Yeah. And it's the reason you go like, oh, no, I don't even care actually. It doesn't even matter is because you're so frightened that it will be the bad decision. There's not really any way around that, I think, other than, like starting to stand by little things. So just being like, I chose to get this milk instead of that milk because it's cheaper and I thought we could try it.

It's so much an easier decision to practice backing itself. And then like, why do we go for dinner? And then it's like, I don't know, world current affairs. And then you'll get better at it slowly. But it is something that, yeah, there's no like easy way around it. If you shy away from wanting to. back yourself, then you will never back yourself. You have to do it in order to get better at it. Like, there's no other way. And of course, you run the risk of it being bad, but that is literally

what life is. Because you will definitely, everyone listening will make a poor decision. Like, everybody, apart from me, all my decision has been absolutely. Bagging. I do, I feel, I say, back yourself to you a great deal. Yes. Yeah, that you'll be like, I think this. And then people will be like, oh, why? With no intonation whatsoever. And you'd be like, I hate it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But it was a weird. I think you do that as well.

So you will go like, we could do this. Or not. Or not. You know, I love to say, or not. I love it. I love it. At the moment, I at the moment, like, I'm going to the Edinburgh Festival this year. And I put in for the three o'clock slot in this smaller venue.

The Coates Classic. The Coates Classic. I love to be in the Pleasant's Court Yard beside the Rose A van. I know my crowd. And I do the 3 o'clock slot. There's nothing else on. You know, it's me and Shakespeare for breakfast. And people have seen that. So I get a lovely sort of Radio 4 group and they've had a little lunch. They sit with me. Adorable. When people are like, I'm having a terrible item around, I'm like, can I interest you in the afternoon slot? It is. It's easy over here. And then I got offered at 6pm in the beside.

There we go. Which is like, that's the big, that's big boys. That's the prestige. That's prestige. that's prestige slot. And I was like, I can't do it. I got to go, I can't do it. Then it says, and then I said to so many people, too, what shall I do? And they were like, these are my opinions. But ultimately, you have to make the choice and you have to stick to it. And you can't.

So we all just desperately want choices to be made for us in lives. We can be like, well, nothing I could do. I'm doing my best with what I was given rather than being like, I made this choice and was it right. Yes. So it's such a hard thing to be like, okay, this is what I'm going to, this is my decision. And then once you've made it, you've got to be like, okay, we're here now. This is the decision we've made. And ultimately, this is a sort of thing that isn't like painting the wall a different color.

There's no way when I get to Edinburgh. I can be like, I've made a mistake. Can I go back to my afternoon? You know, I've got to. And even if we're like, it was a mistake, this is too, be like, okay, let's keep fixing from within. Like, how can we keep making this different? That is exactly, and I know we've talked about this on the podcast often. It's about life is literally about being like, okay, you know, here we go.

I think I can do this thing. And then we're like, oh, I couldn't. But I'm trying again. you know, let's keep on going. Yeah, well, even you with that room, which won't happen. But if, you know, you are like, okay, maybe that was too big a room. It's not. Too big and too late for the ladies.

Let's say it was too big and too late for the ladies. It's reframing it. It's not a mistake. Like, you now know. Yeah, you know something that about yourself and about your audience and about that they're asleep by six years. They've gone to bed. Why? I don't want to come out.

They're tucked in bed. And it's really hard because sometimes it will take a long time for you to like reconcile that and see it is not a mistake. I don't know, I feel like it's a very trite thing to say, but I do like to live my life by this, where it's never a mistake to give a go. Like, it's never a mistake to, like, push yourself further. Because the worst that happens is you go,

okay, well, I didn't sell out every single show like you're used to doing, but like you'll find a whole different audience that you didn't have before because they're all still in bed at 3pm, the other side. Yeah, I've got my waking up crowd. Yeah.

I'm the breakfast show. I am Shakespeare for breakfast. I think exactly that nothing good happens in your life from you staying where you are. You know, you've got to keep being like, okay, good, cool. Now let's take another step forward. And also like the thought of doing, I was very like, yeah, yeah, Edinburgh, because I was like doing my same thing, I'm saying slow. And then now I feel like that same level of like churning gut fear. I'm like, I think that's where good stuff happens when you feel that level of sick.

No, it does. But I think it is that you've got to push. You've got to keep trying. And then I was like, okay, I've got to give the people. I've got to give the people a 6pm show. Let's get some lights. Get some dick out. Let's get some tits and dick out.

It's going to be a big show. Six p.m. The tits and dick show. Like any later than 6pm, not. No. No. After that, it's nice and clean material, but six, that's the saucy hour. I think it's exactly that. It's made me be like, okay, I've got to step up.

I've got to deliver. But it's really tough to be like, I can't blame anybody else. Yeah. But you've just got to be like, okay, okay, I've done it, this is what I'm thinking, I'm back in myself, here we go, you know? Yes, here we go. If you're listening now being like, oh God, yeah, I've got to make this, I don't know. Always pick the one that you think will help you to, like, grow bigger, yeah, like, expand your space. Like, if you're sat in your little, in your little square bit of land, you need a little picket fence, it's time to, like, knock down one of the fences.

Adjoin those two fields. I'd really wish I hadn't used such like weird pastoral imagery because I don't have any of the words for it but like, you know. It's exactly that. The good stuff happens

when you start knocking down that fence on your bit of prairie land and going for some more land. Because there could be a cactus in it. That's a bit of fun, isn't it? Everybody wants one of those. I'd like to introduce you to the work of Admiral Grace Hopper.

Yeah. If I could. Yeah, you can. Born in 1906. Yes, please. Made it all the way to 1992. Middle name, Brewster Murray. and why not?

Born in 1906, she was a computer scientist and United States Navy Rear Admiral. And if you look up a picture of her, like, she's got that sort of like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, just badass. Oh my God, yeah. She walks into a room, you're saluting. She is quoted with saying

that it's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission. I don't understand that you're going to have to explain why that's relevant. Of course. She is saying that it's better to act decisively and apologize for it later than to seek approval to act and to risk delay or objections. It's about being like...

Very good. Very good. Right? Because there is very... Grace. Grace. Yes, grace. There'll be very... And like, forgiveness, not permission. There will be very few times in your life where someone's like, hey, this is what you've chosen is right. You're the right person for this. I give you full permission. Please, you know, it'll be more you being like, I'm doing this now and everyone being like, are you? And you be like, yes. And then, you know, and then if it does go a ride, be like, sorry about that. you know, I'm sorry, just like, I gave it a go. I gave it a bloody go. I've learned something. Oh, it was interesting. Oh, awful. Sure.

But interesting. And you can make it and it becomes like an anecdote in the tapestry of your life. But also, because when you think about the typical masculine energy of just saying, I'm doing this now. And if you're very confident, girl boss vibe, the downside of that energy is often the lack of apology when it goes wrong. So if you can apologise and own your mistake, then that means that you've got the best of both worlds. You've got like the kind of powerful confidence that we all really do aspire to because that gets stuff done. Because we're especially women so, you know, oh sorry, oh, Shell, I was just wondering whether you could, all of that. And then you've got the kind of the other positive element of saying sorry, which is such a thing. Exactly.

It doesn't happen. She doesn't just say, her quote is not smash on. and fuck it, you know? The quote is... I would love it if it was. Born in 1906, smash on and fuck it. A quote is... No context.

No context whatsoever from the rear admiral. She's got a little badge with it on. A quote is, it's easier to ask for forgiveness and his permission. It has the word forgiveness in it. It's about saying, like, to forgive yourself, you know, to forgive yourself, you know, to forgive, to ask for others, you know, but to keep on pushing. And like, you know, no one's ever going to say, oh, yeah, please do this for me, you know?

Unless that's your job. But like as in whatever, as you're trying to do, it's so rare that someone is going to ask specifically for you to pursue your dreams. You just have to be like, I'd like to pursue them now. I might tell you a backing myself story. Yes, please. You might. Do it.

Smash on and fuck it. I a couple months ago had this meeting. Sometimes you have a call with like an American and they just tell. I never get a call. I've had a call with an American and they say, well, what are you working on? I say some ideas. Mostly, they're dogs and they solve crime. And they're like, well, good to meet you. And then they leave. But in one of this touch-based meetings with a stranger, he was like, oh, these are all the shows we're working on. We do this reality show.

We do this. We do this. All this stuff. I was like, I'm not hearing any dogs. So I'm not interested. And then he was like, and we're working on this show about some 65-year-old female assassins. And I was like, sorry. Like, hello. And they were like, yeah, we want to make this like comedy, drama, action show. And then I really was like, come on, kid. I was like, what does the podcast you literally make and tell people tell you to do? So I was like, I'm really sorry.

Have you, I'm really sorry, it began. And I put my little hand in the air as well. On the phone. I put my hand in the air. And I said, have you already staffed the writer's room for that? And a writer's room would have maybe like 20 people in it. So that's not an unreasonable place for me to say, could I? I potentially pitched to be in the writer's room.

And he said, we haven't got to writers room yet. We're currently looking for a showrunner. And a showrunner is like a very high level position to be in. And that's not just me not backing myself. Like that is way above my qualification. But nonetheless, I was like, come on, what does the podcast tell you? And what do the Americans, how do the Americans love to live? He's never going to ask you to do this.

But I was like, listen, I know I'm an experience, but I would really like to put my hat in the ring for this. Then he was like, oh, okay, great. And he sent me all the things, and I pitched some stuff. And did my final pitch to the Americans. It was like a half an hour long thing. I did it during Storm Eunice. Oh, of course, yeah. The aerial flew past the window.

Internet went down. Oh, no. I had to do it on the telephone, talking for half an hour in which I was like, well, this is one of the worst thing that's ever happened to me, doing all these voices and bits and like saying how I would do the show. And what I wanted to do was like, Is everyone still there? I was like, if I let the cringe in any way, the cringe will consume me.

That's such a good word looking at. Don't let the cringe in. Don't let the cringe in. You know, it will consume me because the cringe was there. Oh, God. Yeah. It was bashing down the door. It just flown past the wind.

But it's like, if I just back myself and be like, this is just how we're confident, this is fine. I do, I do pictures like this on the telephone. In storms. Stood on a chair because the reception was bad in a power cut. I'm just like, this is normal. Even though my head was like, this is absolutely horrendous. Anyway, they called last night. I got the job.

What, you're a show roller? I don't know actually. But they're like, we want to give you the job, but we've decided not to go ahead with the project. I know, but like, what a roller coaster. But you get, so you get all of the job, you're having to actually do the job. I don't have to do the job, right?

But I have the thing of being like, oh my God, okay, it works. It works. So you could now do that again. Right? And then maybe the actual job will still be there. Right. And you'll be able to do it.

But like, I learned so much. And also I was like, thank you, Grace. hop up. Ain't nobody ever going to say that you can do this so you just have to keep being like, okay, here I go. Then, and ultimately you've just got to be like, okay, this is what I think. This is what I think it should be, this is decisions I've made, I think the characters should solve

some more puzzles. Yeah, one dog. I think there should be more dogs and you just got to believe in yourself and what you think is good and then sort of stick to it. Absolutely. A very life-affirming story for May. Thanks very much. I felt, but I really, really was thinking about you and our listeners when I said, please can I try?

May I have a bath? May I have a bash? Can I throw my hat? Stand on and fuck it and fuck it? What was it? Smash through and fuck it. Smash on and fuck it. Smash on and fuck it.

That's what you did. Right? Everyone, think, smash on and fuck it. Think of Tess has stood on a chair watching her aerial fly back the window saying, I demand to be a showrunner. Have I been a showrunner before? No. Well, look, we've got to end on that because it.

So also very quickly, I wanted to say, think about it in your life. Like, when have you ever been on the receiving end of someone messing up and then going, I'm so sorry that happened and not gone, that's really great that they apologize. Yeah, right. The actually, it's, because it happens 90%, they don't, and you're furious at them for naught. So it's so nice. Because you're rarely cross about the fuck up. You're cross that they're pretending it's not.

Always. So always remember that. You don't lose power. You gain power by only, you either gain power by smashing on. and fucking it. And then if, for example, you hadn't got the job, let's say, and they'd gone, not this time, you'd go, I smashed on and fucked it, though. Yeah, I still tried, and I learned so much. I stepped out of my little cabbage patch. I went for it. They were like, can't come in. I was like, understood. Back I go. But I've learned, I've learned, you know.

Well, no, you didn't say can't come in. They said, the cabbage patch is gone, but we'd got to have you in anyway. They did, yeah. Come on in. There's nothing actually to do, but do come in. on the soil you just sit in. Amazing. What a great story to end on. If you have any episode of suggestions for the future, please do tweet us, DM us at Nobody Panic Pod, or how can people email us, Tessa?

At Nobody Ponnet. At Nobody Ponet. Try that. Ponica Panet. At Nobody Panic. It's not at Nobody Panic Podcast. Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com. Nearly four years of doing this podcast.

I'm at Tessicoats. She's at Stevie, and the S is a 5. You can find us all over the place. There's also information spiraling the internet about our live shows. Come and see them at the Soho Theatre. And also join us patron.com forward slash nobody panic because, I mean, we just talk about our very personal, incredible personal lives. I think the next one I'll talk about my drug history. Stevie has told me some stories on there that I've never even heard. So in my... That's just the level of secrets being revealed.

No panic goes wild. Come on in. Come on in. It's a real joy. Some candles. Nobody panic after dark. A lot of fun. And see you next week, guys. Back yourself. Back yourself.

Smash on and fucking.