Nobody Panic - How to Be Friends with Your Ex

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

Can it be done? Can you truly be friends with someone after you've done it? S.E.X? The big one? The big nude tango? Well can you??! Stevie and Tessa investigate the greatest question of them all.Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded by Naomi Parnell and edited by ben Williams for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true, Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. I haven't seen you for a while. How's it going? Do you want to be friends?

No, thank you. I would not. A lot has passed between us, and I don't feel comfortable getting into a friendship relationship with you. You were very difficult to date. That could mean that could be one of two things. You're very difficult to go on a date with, and to date you've been quite difficult, as in to this date.

Both. Thank you, Tessa. That was us trying to do some improv because this week's episode is about how to be friends with an ex. Now, we've done in the past, like, how to act when you see your ex, very different. We touched on it very briefly, but we realised we haven't gone in depth with the friendship element because it's such a, it's not a minefield, but it also is an absolute mindfield. Now, it was a request. Why break the habit of a lifetime? I haven't responded to this person who's messaged in either. I'm really sorry. The first thing she says is she'd like to be anonymous. How to be friends with an ex. Two question marks. So we feel this is quite an urgent thing. Urgent.

In this person's life. Yep. It's so hard to be happy, happy while his girlfriend is there. Oh, God, I've got quite a visceral reaction to this. Piers, love the show. Is there any more from our anonymous writer, any backstory, any knowledge? She messaged at one in the morning. Okay.

So I think what's happened here is, and I feel so honored, to be the recipient of a 1am message from somebody who's clearly what's happened is they've gone to a party, I think, let's just, you know, create the scene. They are having some drinks, having some laughs. Someone's like, Jake's going to be here, by the way. They've gone, oh, okay, that's fine. I can deal with it. We're going to be friends. Jake's only gone and brought Lauren, who he's going out with. Beep has then immediately messaged us at one in the morning going, Please, can you tell it? As if we're going to do like a sudden live episode just there for her now.

And I'm really sorry that it was a couple of months ago that she messaged. So I didn't see it until recently. Or wouldn't it be great if everyone bought the book, Nobody Panic, which actually has a chapter about that. So we don't have to be there all the time because sometimes it's very hard to be there. Then you'd have a little tone that you could go home and read and empower yourself when that's the only time I'll be using good empowering in this entire episode. Listen, there's lots to unpack with our anonymous rights.

and we will get into it. But my first feeling is I suspect that she is not actually ready to be friends with this person. What she would actually like is to be his girlfriend again. Yes. And even though they're thinking, no, I don't. That's not what I want. Be like, okay, but I'm open to the idea that maybe you're not ready to get in that friendship boat just yet. Of course, but doesn't that pose the difficult question, which is like, it's very easy to make the choice of whether you would like to be friends with an ex. It's not easy to make the choice when that person as this person seems to be, we're calling him Jake. I'm so sorry if his name's actually Jake, is that Jake is already within the sphere of her friendship group. So then she has to make the

decision. So what's supposed to do? It's been forced upon her. And then you're like, I don't want to be the person who makes my friends choose between us. So it's up to me now to just be an easy, breezy, just be easy breezy. And I'm fine with it. Because that's how I get to stay in my friendship group. But actually, you're not easy, breezy and you're not ready. And maybe that's why she's message to us, because sometimes you don't want to message your friends, because then that reveals that you're struggling. And then you're like, well, then they're going to feel awkward and they might not invite me to things because he's there. But actually, I still want to go to all this stuff. I understand 100% when I was dumped,

and then we all had to go to this big party about a month later. And I didn't even tell anybody that we've broken up because I couldn't bear it. I'm not a bother. I'm not a bother. I'm absolutely fine. Beyonce's all the single ladies had recently come out and my nightmare was that they would push me into the middle of the circle and dance around me as I was made to be the single lady. That was my nightmare. Obviously, classically, that's what all friends do where someone has recently been... That's what the friends do. And so I just didn't want there to be any bad business or anybody being like, oh, is it okay and are you this? I just was like, I'll just not say anything and just plow on. Listen, we're already tromping at the bit. We're getting in too deep. What's your adult thing this week, Stevie? It's not great. It's quite, I just, I have a feeling, and this is very crucial. It's not definite. I have an inkling that for the last, or 72 hours, I have drunk enough water. Okay. That's very good. Thank you for your support. It just feels like that is, I've done it for a bit. Like, it just, it's good. Like, I have been going to Lou Wee. a lot. That's always a good sign. And also, basically, what happens is when I'm having a day

where I'm working, from home, which is every single day, certainly around sort of three o'clock, I just like, oh, I'm, I'm asleep. Okay. And what I've been doing is I've been drinking lots of water, and that's been happening less. And what I think is going to happen is, I've just been so dehydrated that I've gone into a coma. I think that's been happening every day. Well, that's huge. Mine is actually an email from a listener, so it's not really my adult thing. It's actually hers, but it's related. So a couple of months ago, people remember that we did an episode all about getting the vaccine because I am a vaccinator. And when we talked about the volunteers were being allowed to vaccinate, a very nice girl called Molly wrote in and said,

Jesus Lord, I'm absolutely terrified. Please, this is awful. And so I said I was doing the vaccinating, then we did a whole episode all about it, why the volunteers have all had plenty of draining while mostly the volunteers will be running the queue. You'll almost certainly see a medical professional. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway, Molly has written in to say Needlephobia Podcast Update. It's Molly, who emailed about having a needle phobia. Thank you so much for your episode on it. I'm writing this from my little 15-minute rest after getting vaccinated in Capitals. Honestly, the relief is so overwhelming. Thank you so much for the tips. You too made me feel so much better about it all. Thank you so much. And I just want to say congratulations, Molly, well done for you.

for doing it. I know that is absolutely horrible thing to go through and you did it and you were so brave. And I know so many people out there are also doing it when they really, really don't like it. A friend cornered me the other day. A lot of people have been coming out of the woodwork with a sort of, listen, as a vaccinator, can I ask you this? His was, how weird would it be if I asked for it in my butt? Quite weird. And I was like, quite, it would be quite weird. He was like, I'm just so scared of it. What if I just show them my butt and they just stick it in my butt? As if that would make it better. Like, I'm so scared. I'll just moon at the nurse. I think, I believe when we unpacked it, that he had been very scared as a child and for some reason

the nurse had like sort of tricked him and then just stuck it in his butt. And so he's got it in his head. The bar is an option. Anyway, so nobody is alone if you have needle fears or if you had to really steal yourself to go and get that vaccine. And I'm very proud of everybody. So that is my adult thing. It's actually Molly's. So being friends with an ex, I feel you actually have already touched on, I think it's like number one. If you're looking at all the different, like it, it's like a flow chart or like a timeline of it, the first kind of decisions that you make are based on how the relationship ended, isn't it? Because it's like Jake turning up at the party with his girlfriend, where it went when his ex is there.

Also, just for this, for the purposes of this, it's a straight couple, because this is a real scenario that we are discussing. Superimpose your own relationships on willy-nilly, I say. I feel that that shows that maybe Jake broke up with the person, perhaps, or it was a split that Jake is clearly more fine about. Because if you just turn up to a party being like, my ex is there, I've got my new girlfriend. you're sort of over it, it appeared, and that's incredibly painful.

Obviously, I'm superimposing massive generalisations here. Sorry, beep, if you're listening, being like, that's not what happened in a half day. You said that I'm not over it. I get that. What I'm saying is, if you're struggling to be happy for your... For example, I've broken up with somebody, and when I heard they had a girlfriend, I didn't mind

because I didn't want to go out with them anymore. You know, I don't hate them. I don't think, like, ha, ha, but it was just like, oh, there's no like gut-wrenching feeling here, but I have been in positions where I've been broken up with and, for example, like, accidentally been walking behind my ex who's been going back with a girl. And, like, I had snot, like, on running down my neck,

I was crying so hard. You know, like, I've experienced those two worlds. And it feels like that's the first, very painful thing. It's actually the most difficult thing, is it depending on how you have been broken up with. it depends on whether you really should be pursuing a friendship because you unfortunately are now battling, you will be from day one of this breakup,

battling against your own brain that's in denial. And you can tell yourself as many times as you're like, I'd like to be friends, but what you mean is I want to be near them. Or I'd like to be friends means I should be friends, but I'm not okay with it. Or I want to be friends. All my friends just wish I'd shut up about the breakup and wish that we were just friends

so that they could just have a nice evening and not feel awkward. All of those things are, like a completely pale in comparison to the actual question, which is, should you be friends with your ex at this point? And the answer pretty much always, within a year, at least, of breaking up with them, no matter how it was broken up with, whether you were the one or they were the one, the answer is probably no, because either you're not okay with it or they're not okay with it. You're both not okay with it. It's very rare that both people care so little about the breakup. And the breakup was so much of a drift and you're just like two separate people that you actually are able to be friends. It's so, so rare. And unfortunately,

if you're listening, you're probably not the exception to this rule. That's my monologue. Done. Let me take you back to year four. You know what? I've been, I've been waiting for you to do this for a long time. I'm in year four. In a game of kiss chase, I kiss on the cheek, Christopher Jules. Oh, classic. He leaves our school very soon afterwards. With a mysterious illness. Oh my God. What? What was it? No, I don't think it was related to me. I cried because I thought he could never marry again or something. I remember being very upset what I was in here for. I didn't really know. I would still struggle to see Christopher Jules today. My point is, too much has passed between us. You know, like we could try and be friends, but we're still thinking about that thing that's happened. So even if you went out when you were at school, even if you were, it only lasted a very short amount of time,

even if you never did anything in the bedroom. Like, there's still, there has been a thing, and now the thing is gone, whatever that thing was, however small, and now it's gone, and now you are two people trying to, like, see the lay of the land in the absence of this huge thing.

Your relationship is a donut, basically. Your relationship is a donut? Can you expand on that? Because I've not quite understood that. I don't think I will, no. Thank you. I think the issue is that there's a big hole in the middle, where the love used to be. Yes, and there are, there are donuts with no holes, but your donut is now a

holed donut and it can never not be, even if you try and fill it, it'll look like someone's tried to fill in a whole donut. Like there was always a hole there. Exactly. Gross. Absolutely gross. Yeah, pretty gross. And also, you know, never quite a whole. I'm glad you said that because I feel like a lot, that really touches on the whole, like, I should be friends because it was only Christopher Jules and it was only year four, like, come on. But the thing is, is it, when you're even just socializing on a very like comfortable level. You're still, I think pretty much every human being subconsciously or sometimes painfully consciously,

you're very aware of how you're coming across and also you're often only really truly comfortable in a social situation when you're comfortable with how, and bear with me, with how you think you are perceived by the people that you're with. So if you feel like accepted, you feel comfortable with your kind of role within the group, you feel like people do really care about you

and love you and that their intentions are pure, you're having a great social time. Sometimes it can be unnerving because there'll be one person maybe in that group who you're like, oh, I don't know if they like me or not, for example, or like, oh, there was that one time when we had that really weird conversation at 4 a.m. They might not remember it, but you do. So you're worried about how you're perceived of that person. So how can you ever really, truly like, feel comfortable when, for example, somebody has literally broken up with you. Like it's okay to not be able to go back to that like friends before we even knew each other sort of thing because something has changed. And now you, I think the crucial thing about Christopher Jules and about my own personal Christopher Jules, year nine, got my friend to ask him out.

He said, who? That's the story of that. Absolutely devastated. Just so humiliated, if I'm honest. I can. And because now not only, he didn't actually know, so if I had been quiet, it would be fine. But now he has been alerted to who I am. And knows I fancy him.

And Liz also knows that he didn't previously even notice me. So the balance is so off that now if I saw him, I'd probably throw myself into a river in order to avoid seeing him. And I think the thing there is that suddenly there's an unknown quantity because you don't know what that other person feels about you anymore. You don't know if it is what they're saying, which is like, oh, I'm absolutely fine. Or if they're secretly being like, well, I don't want to hurt them.

So I won't say that I just really would prefer that they weren't in this room. Or if they're like, I still love you, but I can't say anything. Like, there's so much going on. And also you'll, you then get into. this battle, I think. It's all fine on the surface, but underneath, there's so much, like, I think you think that I think that I think maybe that time we had that argument. Are you still remember it? Because that was what I said at that. And it's just too many layers. And I'm not saying you can't be friends with the next. What I'm saying is like, but because

there's so much, you're like, little duck feet paddling under the water when the duck looks really, really calm. And it's suchly there being like, hi, I haven't seen even ages. How's it going? There are still people, yeah, for me years ago that I couldn't do that with. And I think you've got to just accept that that's, that's okay. And you also got to to you can't really ever progress until you really are honest with yourself. What are my intentions? What are my intentions here? Yeah.

And if you're in a situation that I think BEEP is in where it doesn't matter about her intentions, it doesn't matter what she wants, this friendship was being forced upon you, really, because you have to be okay with it. I think, like, you know, superficially because they're just going to be there and you, you know, you want to be at these parties. You want to be, because you're now single, maybe. So you're like, well, I want to be hanging out with not with people that I love. love, oh, they're there too, great. Then I think it's so important to have allies within this

social circle that know the situation. So you are not alone in a room all dressed up, pretending you're fine when you're not fine. You need your gang to be like, Jake's going to be here. Shall we go into a corner and then every five seconds when someone says laugh, we all laugh so loudly that we're having a great time. So you're not the one constantly being like, I've got to do it alone. I've got to do it alone. No, you're going to have some drinks. And also, I'm going to watch out for you so that you don't get so drunk that you start crying. We're going to walk around. We're going to be like, ha, ha, ha.

We're going to go on to another party that I know down the road. Do you know what I mean? You need a gang with you. You can't do this alone because it's a really objectively hard thing to do. 100%. It's about surrounding yourself with the people, the good people. And also exactly what you're saying about like, what are your true intentions here?

Because you're, and you might say and believe, you're like, friendship. Just normal friendship. I just want it to be fine and not weird. and friendship in an increasingly high-pitched voice. But really, if you really truly unpack, you either would like, not necessarily to go out with them again, but you would like them to admit they made a mistake. You would like there to be some old beef.

You'd like to eat some old beef out of the fridge. You'd like to, you'd like them to have realized they made, you know, that they have apologized. You'd like them to say, oh my God, wow, you look so amazing. I should never have broken up with you. you would like, you know, X, Y and Z, you certainly don't want them to swan in and be like, oh, yeah, I didn't realize you're going to be here. You look well. This is Lauren the love of my life. But you're like, oh, oh, fine, absolutely fine. Even if you broke up with them and you're like,

I'm actually fine. It's amazing how you can, you can genuinely be fine, but then you see them and you realize that actually, despite the fact that you don't want to go out of them again, all of those things and you're like, I'm cool with that, you still want them to to have a terrible life for a bit. A hundred percent. Very rude of them to be fine. Rude, extremely rude. Because a break-o is a form of grief, obviously a lesser one than true grief.

There's no proper word for it that's like they still exist, but there's the person, not dead, walking around, having a good time. But the person they were to you doesn't exist anymore because that person used to be into you and now they're not into you anymore. It's a very intense thing to go through and to just be like, oh, well, just be friends now. You're like, I don't know if that's actually even humanly possible, let alone if it's been a difficult time, let alone if like, you know, there's unpacked stuff, whatever. But like, it truly is hard because in your eyes, you're either thinking about them naked or you're

thinking about something sad. You know, you're not just genuinely listening to them talk about tax codes, whatever they want to talk about. And as we say, with outer urban bus route planning, frequency is freedom. So the more that you can see. them, the more that it just happens, the less that it's like, in 16 weeks, I will have to go to a party. That gives me 15 weeks to get in shape, 14 weeks to do my hair. Like, the less that it's like, and then I will see them. And then I, it's just like, oh, I have to see them every day. Or I have to see them. The more that you can be in contact with them, the more that you can just sort of lessen the stress and lessen the bit where your whole body just like leaves and

floats towards the ceiling and you're dripping in sweat, the more that you're just like, oh, this is fine. This is fine. I'm exposure. Exposure therapy, basically. So it isn't this huge big deal. And then you see them with the girlfriend. And also like, here's a nice thing. The boyfriend broke up with me. I saw him at a friend's party a few months later. And I had seen him.

I think if I had seen him at the big party that was the single ladies do and, you know, got through that with some tears. I hadn't told people. Then learn to tell people, you know, I didn't have a smart gang around me. You've got to tell people. Yeah, that's your kind of thing there, isn't it? Like sometimes you don't tell people things that are going on in your brain because you're like, yeah.

Oh, it's silly. I'm just being silly and I don't want to be a bother and you've got to always be like, it's so, it's nice for the other person as well. It's nice. How lovely would it be if you went to a party and someone decided that you were a good person to go like, I'm so sorry, this is so pathetic.

I'm just really like worried about my ex. It's like coming in and I feel like, would you mind if you could like, can you just like hang out with me? Like you'd be like, oh my God, absolutely. Like how lovely that I'm the friend that you decided to like confide in. I would love to be the goose to your, no, what is his codename in that? I'd like to be the goose to your Tom Cruise.

Oh, you're talking about Topgum? Yeah. Oh, I think, I was just thinking you just make goose and I'm like so well with it. You goose to your duckling. Like, no, I see what you mean, yeah. Top gun isn't really my thing, but yeah. No, but you know that he's got a man in the back. You know.

I'm aware of the man he has in the back of the plane. Yeah, sure. So you've got to get a goose on side. Then a couple of months after that, I saw him at a party where it was like, uh-oh, the new girlfriend's going to be here. And I really lost my mind because I was like, what will she be like? Will she look like me? Will she be?

And again, several weeks looking effortlessly thrown together, but actually it was extremely effortful. And then met her. Well, we spoke for a bit. And then me and the boyfriend and I was like, okay, I'm ready. And he was like, for what? And I was like, obviously to meet the new girlfriend. And he was like, well, okay, that is. I like, I said, I'm ready.

Okay, come on then. Let's just do it. And like, she equally had obviously been stressed, you know, about being like, oh, and this ex-girlfriend that you're all still friends with is going to be there, is she? Like, obviously, there's so much going on. You're a donut with a hole in the middle. Like, of course there's loads going on for everybody. Anyway, so we go up and we talk and it was absolutely fine.

Then I left. The word thing I was going to be, like, really sad about was if he was, like, extremely loving with her. Because we had a very, like, just fun, you know, but not particularly, you know, if he never, who never was sort of effort. But also we were, like, very young and very pausing. Like, you know, there was no big grand gesture. So I was like, I'll be so sad if he's suddenly so, like, loving with her.

Anyway, she'd just come to the city to see him. He'd forgotten. And then she'd sat on his doorstep for four hours. And I was like, perfect. That's the dream, isn't they? Oh, they've not changed. He's not changed. It was, he got just who he is.

It's not that he's suddenly going to become a better person, blah, blah, blah. And I think it's just like, with the passage of time, you're just like, oh, all these things pass, all this sort of stuff that feels so important now isn't. And all these things are like, you know, that you'll be like, remember that time I got so upset I had to write into a podcast to ask what to do. And I'm not saying that disparagingly. I mean it of like there will be a time when you'll be like, I can't believe that was my main, that was my main concern. Just to return to one thing that you said about like really when you say I want to be friends with them, what you probably mean is like I want to be near them. So I do remember saying like I feel like that he was like, I was, it was like an addiction thing of being like I know that I'm supposed to not, but I'm sort of making any excuse to like be near this person. For for what gain I didn't really. no. And the answer was just like, I just wanted to be, I just want, because I think because I was like, I was searching for this like redemption where they were like, that was a mistake. And then I say, ha ha ha, ha, no, you know? Yes. And it can come in a very, in very strange ways. I remember, like, I, first, like probably proper, like long term, like a year or a relationship. The year after

I, we broke up, he broke up with me multiple times, just desperately trying to get rid of me. And I was just always coming back and forcing him to go back out of me. When I came to London, I knew that like he lived on a particular tube line at one point. I didn't know where he lived now. And I would, like, I genuinely now can look back and know at the time. I didn't even know I was doing it, but I sort of did, but I didn't that kind of weird like double thing that you have when you're like pretending that you're fine.

You trick yourself that it's fine. Every tube journey I would do, I would get on this line even when I didn't need to. But I would like, actually it's probably easier to do that in case he, clearly in case he was on the tube. And you're like, oh, oh, God, if you're doing that consciously, that's quite actually disturbing. But if you're doing that, it's so sad. And I didn't know, I wasn't real enough with myself to give myself a talking to at that point. So what I'm saying that, to be like, even the things that you don't realize you're doing almost,

or you can pretend you're not so hard that you don't even see it. Also, I realize that, you know, obviously, how to be friends with an ex, you kind of presume there's just like top 10 tips. It's like, why not go to the cinema? Or somewhere that has no light. What? So that's what I'm saying. People are listening in, hoping for this like, here are the top ten things. And be like, how will we do it?

And the answer is, you can't be friends. Because I'm sorry, that's the hard, that's the hard fast truth. And maybe in several years a form of friendship will emerge. And listen, you can be companion, you can be acquaintances, you can be on good terms. You can, you know, all of this. but to actually truly be best of friends, I would say it's such a rare, rare thing. Either you didn't have a good relationship to start with

and then you're like, oh, that was actually not a very good relationship, but this is much better. We weren't very good couple. Yeah. We both acknowledge. We're actually very good at being friends. But if you truly enjoyed being a couple, you ain't never going to enjoy being a friend, you know?

Yes. It's very depressing when you've, when you've broken up or something or you've been broken up and we're like, oh my God, we're never going to be friends. And also like, but what does that really mean? like, okay, well, you actually, further down the line, you actually might, but you certainly won't if you push it too soon, which is now, so don't push it, because it will, you can't actually make yourself be friends with an ex. It will happen organically or it won't. And by, and by that point, when the time is right. Three years down the line, when the time is right, you won't mind either way

because you will have moved on. When you least expect it. Yeah. And it will be like a happy bird that you'll go like, oh, we're actually fine. And also, what does friendship mean? And that's something that I used to think about a lot when I'd be like, but I want to be friends with my ex. Like when there was exes that I did want to be friends with because I was kind of riding the central line hoping that I'd see them. Sure. Is that you go like, but I want to be friends and what you're thinking is like, I want to be able to go for dinner with them and get advice and like talk to them and just be around. And again, what you're doing there is you would like to go on a date with them. That's what you're saying. And you're telling yourself no, but you actually

would because that's the whole reason that you went out with them is that, you know, you would be friends, but with more. You want to be with them. Being friends with an ex might be that you, actually what happens is, is that you're able to be in a party with them and it's fine. And you can, you can say hi, you can have a chat. You can maybe even like all get drunk together and it's all kind of fun. But there's just no, there's nothing else there. And I think that time is literally, like you say, that's the only thing that is going to help with that is, is time. And they might not be as well. That's the thing. You might be absolutely cool and be like, but I want to be friends with them. Why wouldn't they be friends with me? You have to take the lead. Like there's two people

here. So often like the perspective that we're coming at it from is that like you want to be friends but they don't or they want to be friends but you don't. The thing is is that you might be completely fine and not understand why they're not coming to the parties or they're avoiding you. Or they've blocked you on social media. We haven't discussed social media which would be very, very painful. And in the situation of the friendship is forced upon you, okay, then it becomes okay well how can I for myself socially deal with this in a way that doesn't hurt me all the time so I have my connection of people I have my group of people my gang who are looking out for me who were able to say things like just so you know I think Jake might pop by later or I've heard that he might be coming with so that you know because that that's always helpful not to be blindsided and also can as well like exposure therapy is very helpful but not all the time like you don't have to be there all the time you don't have to be there all the time. to see it. Try to remove yourself from it. If you don't want to do the thing of like blocking them on

social media, because that's a very like statement that they will see or that they could see, mute them. So you don't get any of their updates. It's not thrust in your face. Detach yourself as much as you possibly can so that then in the future, you may organically strike up a friendship again. You may, you may. At that point, you won't mind because you've detached yourself enough, you'll be strong enough to be able to be in their vicinity without messaging us at 1 a.m. And again, that sounds like it's disparaging. You should see the sort of stuff I was doing. Like, you know, at least you're not leaving a voicemail on his phone being like, I've seen you with another woman. Like, I did that. Like, absolutely dreadful.

When it comes to actually honestly being civil acquaintances, it's fine to see them. You won't need tips and advice because it would just be happening because you won't mind anymore because you will have fully moved on. And I think if you're still not okay, you've got to, it's actually about doing the work on yourself. So you've got to look at yourself and go, I've not moved on. How can I move on? How can I fill my life with stuff that is a full, it's, you go on like full distraction mode for the first bit, which feels very like forced because you're like, I'm just distracting myself.

I'm not actually saying, actually I don't want to. I'm just, no, distract yourself. And then it will become natural. And then you'll forget that you were even distracting yourself. And that's the aim, that's the sweet spot that you've got to try and get to. We're very close to the end. but I hope that was of some help to you all. Especially beep.

Especially to you. And I think it's just about not forcing this situation. And if you simply have to see them and you simply want to get on, it can be just a, it can be civil as opposed to a true friendship. And just to be honest with yourself that the times when you are pushing friendship, what you're really pushing is something very different. And you don't have to feel. happiness to look at this person who broke your heart and is now with somebody else.

So don't, don't beat yourself up about it and don't expect it to happen overnight and let sort of time do its work and at these parties or workplace or whatever it is that you have to constantly see them. Just, you know, keep yourself distracted. Keep yourself communicating with the people around you. Don't bottle it all up. Don't be like, I should be fine now. It's been a week. I should be fine. I've got my new haircut. Why aren't I fine? Of course you're not fine. Just getting to a place of being like, I'm actually really struggling. with this, but I would, it's currently, but I know it's going to get better with time or like, I don't want to talk about it, but it's definitely, I definitely feel sad that you don't have to say,

I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, you know, and that friendship is going to be a totally different thing. It is a totally different breed. It's not just that donut with a bit in it. It's, it's a different pastry altogether and you have to build that together, not just be like, okay, well, we've removed the sex from a relationship and now we'll just carry on as we were, but no sex. I, I end with this. Went to a fancy dress party a long time after we had broken up, almost a year. New girlfriend was there, who I had seen several times now. And I looked so good and had truly, the time had done its work, I had truly, you know,

I did not give a shit anymore. But I knew I also was like a bit, you know. I knew I was doing. I wanted to look good. I looked so good. I was so effortless. I so didn't care. I made so many good jokes that the she, the, the guy.

girlfriend had to leave in tears. So sometimes you do it too well. You do it too well and it's like there's still, you know, there's still no winners here. This is a hollow, hollow victory, you know. May I also say that you can do it the other way around as well where like it would again is a twist on the classic, which is. Oh, twist. Add a twist, please. Looked excellent. Did not care. Went to the party. Beforehand met with somebody to go for a drink. They were really late. I saw the ex in the bar thought, I feel so fine. I also look too. who were hot. I'll do them a solid and I'll just hide behind this pillar so they don't see me. His friend texts me going, we can all see you hiding behind that pillar. I look like I'm not over

it. Basically, it can be a minefield even when you're fine. I'll, I look so good. I'll do them a favour. I just felt really bad because I know that they were struggling with the breakup and I wasn't and I was like, I'm in this cool dress and I look like I'm just having a great laugh. And I was like, I'll just, I'll remove myself. I think that's fine. You know, I think that's fair. Oh my God. Really. Give yourself some damage there. So just be honest with yourself, with your sweet self, and look after yourself. And I hope that was some, if not help, then hope and hope.

And if you have any episodes, you would like us to tackle as ever. The email address is nobody panic podcast at gmail.com. Buy our book. And then you'll have a little bit of advice with you all the time. It's all good books. Waterston's perhaps. Well, her smurf. It comes out on November 4th.

We're at individually at Stovium. Yes is a 5. Tessa, what's your handle? At Tessa Coates and the Twitter is at Nobody PanicPonipod. And the email is Nomadipanipodcast at gmail.com. We're always available. We're not quick. Yeah, always available.

Sometimes not. But so if you are hoping for the 1am crisis call. Sometimes we're on it. Sometimes we're not. Sometimes we are. We have been known to get there. But don't bank on us. And we hope you're okay, Beep.

And yeah, have a lovely week, everybody. And see you next time. for more nobody panic. That's quite good. Bye.