Nobody Panic - How to Be Good at Small Talk

Episode Date: October 15, 2019

Small talk can be excruciating but don’t worry! Stevie and Tessa have found some top tips that will make that terrifying networking event/party fly be. Or just be a little less arse-clenchy.Produced and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true, Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Welcome to Nobody Panic with me, Stevie. And me, Tessa. And we're not panicking.

And our podcast... Very calm. That's too calm, actually. Erily calm. Mellow. This is a podcast where we help you become a functioning adult without screaming. I mean, without us, screaming, or you screaming. Because being an adult basically means you just scream all the time.

Tackling the problem's big and small. And today it's a small yet big one. How to be good at small talk. Are you good at small talk? No. I'm all right, actually. I feel like you sort of blow into the conversation and be like, oh, hello, and then you'll do some like good business

and then you'll just be like, well, where did that woman go? Did anyone else see her? Like that's the vibe. Yeah, so take from that what you will. And if you think that sounds good or not. It's chaining. Yes. Yeah, I've got a lot of opinions about it basically. Yeah.

This is how to go to a party if you don't know anybody. What if you have to go to a networking do? What if you're invited to a wedding and you haven't got a plus one. You're on your own. What are you going to say? What are you going to say? How are you going to get through it. But we got you.

I also was. inspired to do this because my mum, who listens, hello mum, she went to a party recently and she was like, I realised halfway through, I thought I was good at small talk, I'm terrible. Maybe like an hour in, she was like, oh, this is actually a real drain. I want to leave, right, but couldn't. I think if you do it a lot, you can go into autopilot a little bit and be like, I'll just check out and whack out my bangers, not gate-hits out, like actually say some stock phrases. It's just exhausting. and I very much understand when I've been at social events and I'm like, oh, I'm not on form and I just want to go home because I'm like, look, let's just cut our losses now.

But then you kind of can sometimes have a go and it's great and you meet someone and you make a new friend. Absolutely. Sometimes. Absolutely. But sometimes you're contractually obliged to be at the event and you can't go. You'll find yourself trapped in an elevator with a work colleague. You'll find yourself in a queue that's ever so slightly too long or you get on the tube and you see somebody from work and then you're like, oh my God, hi. but then you remember that you're eight stops away from work and then a seven minute walk and then

you're like what will we do what will we do once i was on the tube with my good friend tessa who's sitting opposite me and she saw her friend who sat the other side of us and i would always like lean it over and be like hi i'm stevie but for some reason this time i didn't and then i got off and tessa's friend got off from the same stop and then we traveled for seven stops together the anxiety was palpable in both of us I remember shouting to you both, well, best of luck, as you literally did. If we may talk about our good friend who will know it's her, but we won't say, she leaving work ran into a work colleague, and then she thought, oh no, this person lives very close to me, and we will have to travel now for some time.

So then passing the Marks and Spencers, she said, oh, I've just got to go in here. So see you tomorrow. the friend, colleague said, oh for what? She panicked and said, birthday cake, got to get a birthday cake

for my housemate. Strong. The girl said, all right, I'll come. And then she had to go to my suspences and buy a birthday

cake for a fictional housemate whose birthday it was not. So the friend is like, what about this one? This looks fun. And our friend is just like, just the cheapest,

mate, it's not. It's not. It's a lie. It's a lie. I'll be absolutely honest. It's a lie. And then she had to travel home with the friend on the tube with the birthday cake. Oh my God.

She arrived home. I was like, listen, I won't be taking questions, but we'll be having birthday cake now. Listen, listen, it's a crisis. It's a crisis. And I'd say that friend is good at small talk. Yeah. Even the best can fall on by a birthday cake. Even the best of us have fallen.

What adult thing have you done this week? Well, I don't think this is adult, but it has shades of light and dark. Okay. We were both out last night, hence the sort of gentle timber, I think, of this episode. And I was going to a friend's house who then couldn't have me. And I was like, oh, no problem at all. There's plenty and plenty of people who I could have been like, can I say I'm yours over? But I was like, in a real moment of whim, I was like, I shan't.

I'm a woman in control. I'll just sort this out myself. So I went on hotels tonight, which I see advertised on the tube all the time. Yes, it's normally for like sex. So couples. Yeah, it's definitely like date, went too well, Hotels Tonight.com. But it was at this point, like 10 o'clock at night,

and I was like, there'll be deals on there. Oh my God. Went on it. Obviously some of them were like hundreds and hundreds of pounds. Saw this like four star one that was literally around the corner from where I was, 30 quid. I was like, well. That's two drinks. Right?

That's literally around. I was like, count me out of the next one. I've got a hotel. I pressed book. I was absolutely buzzing. High on my own supply. We leave the do. I get there.

I part, as I'm walking, I'm, I really was walking being like, what a gal. Like I was like, do, do do do do. You can't see my hand action, but I'm like, jaunty. I'm jaunty. I saw a hotel in the distance and it looks so snazzy and I was like, can't believe it. Got there, not me. Had to go around the corner. And then I realized what I had done was booked a, a real, I'll have brothel.

I put myself into a brothel. It was like a guest house. Oh, I had sex with all the men. I didn't. Imagine, imagine. I was completely safe. The story ends absolutely fine, but the street was definitely like all those like

sort of guest house signs. Blinking on and off. Just sort of thing that you'd pass in the day. Pay for an hour. And you'd be like, who on earth is staying there? Me, as it turns out. And I do not to the door being like, oh no. And a lady in her nighty let me in.

It was a perfectly safe and fine guest house. I'm calling it a brothel. I'm absolutely sure that nefarious things have happened there. Of course. None of them happened to me, nor did I see any. but I did lay on my bed thinking, oh no, fully closed. Fully closed. I slept in all my clothes, just thinking like, oh, this was a mistake.

Yes. So a high adult, followed by a low adult. And what we've learned to do in the future is always read the reviews. TripAdvisor. Have a little read. Very helpful. Don't just be like four stars and a pretty picture. I'm in.

Just have a little check. But I don't regret it, you know? No, absolutely. Well, you've learned. That's my tale. Lovely. Yeah. So still reeling from it.

Mine, my adult thing is, I won't be. going into detail. But I just wanted to say it because I don't ever do this. It will sound fake, but I'm proud. I called somebody out for something and then I backed myself. That's good, isn't it? Yes. So normally, I don't call anyone out and cry for a long time, or I call someone out and then they go, that's not okay. And I'm like, you're right! But the adult thing is to back your own decisions, I feel. So I was like... And unemotionally. Unemotionally. And actually was an emotional. I mean, they didn't see that I was not crying when I wrote the message. But when I had a call to follow up the message, I was just like, yes, yes.

I was like a very calm man of the cloth. Yeah, being like, my opinions are valid. This is like the second time it's happened now where I've been like, just be honest, just say what you feel. Great. And then back it. And then back yourself. That's my tip from me to you. Okay, right, small talk.

One of the things that I was reading about in terms of small talk is, and it's the same with, like, lots of things. It's about perspective and what you feel like going into the room. and all of the first tips are always like, go in there with a sense of childish curiosity about the other person. How fun. But you can't help it when you don't want to be somewhere. You can't be like, I just switch my childish curiosity button on.

I'll pull my right here and childish curiosity comes out my mouth. Yes. That's not what happens. So I think the first thing I want to say is, if you're out of thing and you're like, I'm not on form and I'm panicked, just leave. Otherwise people feel trapped. Whereas if you have the option to leave, you'll probably stay.

Because you'll be like, well, I could leave at any point. I'm an adult. Right. Because if you feel like I must stay here, for seven hours. Very overwhelming. If you're at a wedding, you must say that for seven hours.

Do you know, I recently went to a party in the pub. Oh, yeah. Arrived. Nobody saw me. I saw the group. I thought to myself, not for me. I walked straight through the pub and out of them.

Your facial expression when I was saying that, often when you're listening to the podcast, you can't see as his facial expression, was sort of like, oh, no. And I was like, oh, I've gone wrong here. Then you came back with the perfect tale. Sometimes, just leave.

But quite oft, you cannot. Have a go, yeah. Quite often, you're at a wedding. You can't just be like, not for me. You're at a work function. You cannot be like, not for me, and walk out. Or you're sat next to a colleague every day that you don't really know how to talk to. You can't say not for me and leave your job.

You can't be on the tube and shout, not for me and walk away from them. Like, sometimes you are stuck. So if you can leave, by all means, just stick to your guns and leave. You don't have to say at this party. And don't feel guilty about it because I think that's the, I was at a wedding this summer and one of my very cool friends. half, no, at nine o'clock, it was like, oh, where's this person gone? And so I was like, oh, she's gone to bed early.

And it was like, it was fine. Like, she'd said to the bride, like, I'm so sorry, like, I'm just really, I'm just going to go. And it was absolutely, no one was like, well, that's, you know, everyone was just. I would. Okay. I would. Right.

You have to make it till 10pm, that's the, then you can leave. Oh, that really goes against what I'm saying, but, I mean. Sorry, but at a wedding. We'll just try to make people feel comfortable, but absolutely. No, please. I've been to a wedding where I left. in the middle, had a bath. I mean, and turn.

Like, come on. You can't tell me what I'm saying it wrong. But then I could, come when we got a bath off and through a wedding. Yeah, I did not have been to bed the night before and I'd given it a really good go. Well done. But then I appeared again, rejuvenated, real second wave. See, that's the thing. I was like, if the bride can have a costume change, she's so good I.

That's a good point. With, like, weddings, if you are sleeping close to where the actual ceremony is, go back. Have a, even if you don't have a nap, my boyfriend finds like eight hours of, constant socialising. He doesn't drink. Just quite excruciating. And so halfway through, whenever I've been to a wedding with him, we like break it into chunks. And it's like, right, you get through three hours, you get a walk. And then I walk him like a dog around the nearby locations. And then he comes back, rejuvenated AF returns are quite lesser. Diminishing. Diminishing. So we're sort of chasing the dragon, as it were. The high of the walk starts to last less and less and

less. So by the end, it's like an hour. He can last an hour. And then there's another walk. And that's the time when I put them to bed And then I go by down and have a party But it does work That kind of takes time out So that's mental attitude Whether that's a 12-hour wedding Or a mere 45 minutes at the buffet

Eating stale crisps With Janet from HR You can check in and out Pop away And then be like, here I come back in for this But in terms of actual practical small talk Yes Yes

You've got some hot tips So if you attempt to look into this A series of idiots on the internet will tell you like 45 questions to try and they'll all be from a man called like Trey Hunter who's never spoken out loud to another person and he sounds like he's one

someone who's like got rid of all his belongings and travelled the world just meeting people and making connections and then he'd be like try these questions and they're always like what's the best career advice you've ever received imagine just coming out and that's your opening gambit like hi I'm Stevie Renauds to meet you

what's the best career advice you've ever received it'd be a very weird vibe sorry what was your name are there any apps on your phone that you can't live without Like, there's a book you've hated that everyone else loved, and vice versa, you know? That's not small talk. That's not small talk, Tray Hunter.

That's what I'd say to you. The problem is, is that I think people put too much on the small talk. The less you think about it, the easier it will be. All you need is your opening gambit. The first thing you say could be something completely banal, like, oh, God, do they have any cheese and onion crisps? Because they're the only crisps I like. They never have any cheese and onion crisps. The other person isn't going to be like, well, this woman's obsessed with cheese and onion crisps.

Chris. No. What they're going to do is go, oh, this person is making a connection and is making an effort and would like, would like to chat for a bit. They're showing their peacock tail.

Yeah. In mammals, the mating display in females when you like get your head low but your butt high. Oh, big on that. It's called loistress. Loistrous.

Yeah, it's quite a nice word. Pigeons do that. Yeah, everyone does it. A head putting the ground. Yeah. What's happening? Oh, that's, oh, that's what's happening. But they're not.

They're showing their butt out. Oh, that's fun. So get your butt out. Get your butt out. All you're doing here is doing your human equivalent of loistress and being like, I'm opening this interaction here. Oh, it's hot in here, isn't it? So you do not have to open with any of this nonsense.

Yeah. Anything that is. Gosh, I absolutely love your dress. That's really nice as well. Or my favourite is commenting on the thing that someone's doing that you don't need to comment on. Like when we were at uni and we're all freshers and no one knew how to interact with each other, you'd see someone like clearly with their laundry bag doing laundry and he'd go like, oh, doing some laundry. What you want in an ideal world is a question that can't be answered with yes or no.

No. So ideally it's like doing your laundry, I see, what tabla do you? Or like, or if you give people yes or no, then people could just, you know, they could walk away from it or whatever. Or if it's just a display sentence that has no necessary option for the other person. Yeah, very hard. So maybe it's like, oh, you're doing your laundry. Do you live in this corridor? Look, brilliant. That's so great. That is genuinely what I was looking for. I couldn't think of anything other than size of the laundry. Yeah. So do you live in this corridor? Like, have you, um, have you, um, are you?

Oh, is that your hoodie? What degree are you doing? Yeah, what are you studying? Suddenly it's that kind of... Did you go to the cowboy hypnotist last night? For example. When you're at uni, it's so much easier because you can always rely on,

oh, what do you study? Yeah. Like, that's so nice. Whereas the equivalent in adult land is what do you do? And I love finding out what people do because I think that's the nicest point in to them as people, and you can, like, tell quite a lot about something

about how they talk about, what they do, what they love. but I've read so many articles about being like that's the worst thing to say and also if it's someone who doesn't really like what they do then they can put them in a really bad feeling. I think if you say what do you do, I think it's all right because we don't really have any other purchase. I think it's fine as well.

I just wanted to say that sometimes people can be there. My parents once many years ago got given a gift of a murder mystery weekend which they later reported back was clearly a swingers thing. Oh right, okay. There was a sort of like it was murder till midnight and then if you fancied you could definitely do a sort of.

of swinging. Right. But it was just murder for them. But they reported back how nice it was to go to this thing. And they were all called those stupid pun names, like Theresa Green or like... Oh my God.

Only just twigged for me. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Done a lot of murder mysteries. I've seen a lot of Teresa Greens. Yeah. That's a boring name.

Why I pick that? All the rest of them are puns. Teresa Green, like the gardener or whatever, you know? Very good. So that, nonsense. And you had a little character. So then when people said like, oh, what do you do? you said, I'm a gardener.

And my name's Teresa. And I cultivate, you know, wildflowers or some shit. And you made stuff up. And both my parents said how nice it was to be meeting all these strangers. And there'd be no, like, judgment in the like, what do you do? Oh, and do you have kids? Oh, boring, boring. I'm listening to you tell me about your child's violin lessons.

Instead, you're like having what still felt like very real connections with people and people were fun. But there was none of the bullshit. So carry a murder mystery board around with you. With you all times. Walk it out. Or whenever anyone else's how you. laundry's doing, give them,

bestow them a character and start playing. Exactly. So I'm just saying I recognize why what do you do. Is it, is master,

so if people make a, if they say, oh, and they make a face and they say, oh, I work in science, HR. They go, well,

what do you have a passion? Are you in a band? What's the thing that you love? All you're going to do is ask one opening gambit, do your peacock, say that you'd like, you'd like to start the conversation.

And then it's just listen, listen, listen. When they run out of steam, you ask a question based on what they've just said, listen, listen, listen, listen. Yeah, you basically just keep asking questions. You keep asking questions and you pretend,

well, you either are or you pretend, if they're not very interesting, you pretend that they are really interesting. That's one thing that, yeah, when I found that out, because I've got a friend who's like incredibly good at small talking first impressions and stuff, I just watched him do it.

It's insane. And then he was like, I'm just interested in what people have to say. Like, I'm just asking questions. And he was like, you're a journalist, you interview people. I was like, oh my God, it's very true. Like, I did that for my job for so long.

And then you realize how easy it is. when you take the pressure off yourself, you've just both got your bums out, and you're equal, and you can just ask questions. And that's all you have to do. Matt is a wonderfully flamboyant individual who looks you dead in the eye when he asks you questions.

And he cares about the answer. And he sincerely cares about the answer, and he touches your arm a lot. And he's like, oh, yes, whenever you say anything, he's fascinated. Yes, he really, and I think this is a thing to learn as well. Like, he really feels the answer. Like, he's really like, he's excited.

He's so sincerely listening, which is so rare. So rare. So rare. And not everybody, of course. course you might be listening being like, well, I'm not naturally effusive and I'm not naturally, and that's fine. You don't have to have that personality trait. You don't have to be like incredibly charismatic to ask questions and listen. One thing that a lot of introverts have in common is they can be mistaken for being rude quite a lot of the time. I've got a lot of friends who are, and myself as well, when I first meet people when I was younger, people would think I was very rude. And then I kept

getting told back by people that were then my friends being like, whatever's mate. I thought you're a bitch. You're like, right, we'll have to change that. So now I'm very careful to when I meet someone, I sort of maybe overdue, if I'm honest. I really want to, I am interested, but I could very much have quite a dead face listening. I'd still be interested. So I do a lot of like, you know, cock the head to the side,

really listen, nodding. If you are somebody who's quite quiet and quite reserved, it can come across as, you don't want it to come across as rudeness. Again, it's like an animal peacock thing. The peacock displays its feathers because that's an unmistakable signal. So you have to make some small, unmistakable signals as an animal to your fellow animal. But yeah, I'm actually, no, I am interested in your story.

Yeah. Otherwise the person will lose faith in what we're saying. And then they'll leave and then you'll be like, oh, they hate me. And they don't. They think you don't like them. Exactly. What a miscommunication. What a miscommunication.

The more this podcast episode goes on, the more I'm like, I think we, we, I wish we could just get our bombs out. To show. We don't have any, we lack, and not to deep dive into our biology, but we lack eestress. We just are permanently fertile human, human feelings. females, us and rabbits, and that's it. Everyone else has got a cycle.

They're like, dogs are on heat. They're on heat. Everyone's like, whoa, baby! It's a very clear, like, now please, like semaphore. Every animal is so good at its visual display. And we've lost all of that. So now we rely entirely on our verbal communication and our sort of shit body language. And everyone therefore is like desperate trying to pick up on clues and being like, are you saying this or not?

And also, we communicate so much like via a screen now that I think even if we were good at that we're going to start and I'm feeling starting to get disconnected so when you are talking you forget that you're supposed to make these faces and be like interested so you just have to do a better job you might be an introvert who and it's so rubbish being an introvert in a extroverted world you might want to just be like yeah I'm doing my display but it's just like one peacock feather and you've like slide it out the side and sort of wave it there was like it was that mistake or is that's like that's absolutely massive I'm really showing it here but to everyone else they're like we don't know So it's not both butt cheeks, we're not going to see it.

We're not going to see it. So you've just got to open your body language up, do those starting conversation things if it helps you to, even if you're like, I don't want to touch a human in my life. Try and see what it feels like to like touch somebody's arm. Do it within a chat. If you, yeah, no, don't just at the buffet. Touch someone.

And I'm like, well, that didn't work. Have a go. See how it feels. Yeah, when you say hi to someone, it is, and I was like, hi, how are you? Because the other day, I met two people, and I sort of went in for a hug. And then we were taught,

And then I said, oh, I'm so sorry. I've really committed to, like, hugging everyone. I'm going to hug everyone in this bar. But then the guy said, well, what I do is I can sort of do a lean in a touch. And then that's like, it feels like a hug, but you're not at the hug stage yet. I'm like, I'm going to do a lean and touch. Lovely. You don't lean sideways or backwards.

You lean in. Lean in. And just sort of touch them on the arm and be like, hey. And then retract. And then it feels warm and friendly. With that, you haven't like got off with them. And they don't feel like, oh, okay, you've seemed to have hugged me. And I don't really know you.

as a signal. We're terribly skin hungry in a way that we don't know. We just want to eat skin. Yum, yum, yum. But we don't have enough physical contact in our lives. But also some people really don't like it

and can't cope with it. So then when you like hug people and they're like, oh God, I'm sorry, completely. Of course. Lunge and lean. Lunging towards them and grabbing them is better.

Yes. On the lunging point after you've made your clear visual display, you'll probably spot other people there who also don't know enough people. Yeah. So you can clearly go up and, you know, you don't have to open with like, oh, we're the losers, am I right?

Don't say we're the losers. For God's sake. Just like, God, these things can be so tricky, can't they? Or fantastic dress, where's that from? Or who do you know? Or where are these crisps? Where's the drinks table? Should we get a drink?

Yeah. Or do something like... Are there any snacks at this do? Yeah, I've heard tell of canopets. Yeah, that's often my opening out. I don't know what I say heard tell. Yeah, you're an old duke. And you've set your bar out.

It is true. So the asking questions thing is absolutely crucial. The other thing, I found a tip, which in theory, very good. The examples they've given, quite bad. They said if you are being asked a question in small talk scenario, you're not going to be the only person in, otherwise it's an interrogation. So this tip is like, basically, don't ever give a one word response. And just think of literally anything to elaborate on that.

And don't then beat yourself up for that not being interesting. No. Because again, all you're showing the other person is, I'm not going to give a one-word response. I like being in this conversation. So even if someone says to you, so one of the examples, I actually wouldn't recommend this,

question is, how are you? Short response, fine, better response, good, thanks. I'm getting ready from my vacation to England. It'll be my first time in Europe and I look forward to trying proper English tea. That's slightly odd, but you can maybe, I'd say take one of those and be like, how are you? Fine, yeah, I'm just getting ready to go on holiday actually.

Then the other person is like, Oh, relief, we can talk about that. Where are you going on holiday? Oh, I'm going here. Have you been now? You're talking about travel. Look at you go. Like, there's a lot.

All you need is just that one little inn, and you'll be so surprised how the other person also jumps on it, and you're both now sailing along the boat of composite, the HMS chat. Yes. And even if you've got absolutely jack all, you can go for fine. How are you? Deflect. Deflect it back.

Deflect it back. Now, what are you going to say? I'm great. Okay. How are you? And now you're in how are you lulled. Now we've trapped. See, look, number one, don't lead with a how are you?

No. But if you get hit with them, how are you, from someone who doesn't listen to this podcast. For God's sake. There is at least one. Then you can get the ball rolling with literally any sentence. Just pick anything. It could be fine. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm good.

I'm just looking for the drinks table. Do you know where it is? You could say that. You could say, I'm good. Oh, I've had to stay late last night to get those reports. Anything. Yeah. But then just looking forward to the weekend, I've got this coming.

up. Are you doing anything nice? Had a terrible time on the tube getting here. But I saw a dog. There we go. Look, you're giving some things. Just go into your memories. They don't have to be anything good. Just what happened today and say it. I remember when I first met a friend of mine, I don't think I did say, how are you? But I said something that was quite like nothing. She was like, I'm great. I've immediately lost confidence in this top. And it's like, great. She's fun. Now we can talk about that. Like you can anything, just literally anything. But the The crucial thing is the more you criticize yourself and think it has to be incredible, the higher your bar is for what you say next, the harder it's going to be for you.

Because the bar is so low. The bar is on the floor. And all you have to do is say anything in like a small talk situation. And the more you get into your own head, the harder it's going to be. And the more that you wait like a wallflower for people to approach you, it ain't never going to happen. The pressure is going to build as well. When it's how you'll be like, you'll just explode. And that's the end.

You know, and you haven't spoken about it. And then you go like, hang on, like, oh, fuck you, like that. I'm sorry. I'm sorry? I actually really surprised myself. Weird to sound I've ever heard. Really? You just, your mouth's got too dry or whatever.

I know, what you mean? I was alone all weekend, and then I got a Chinese takeaway delivery from delivery, and the guy was like, he'd go, and I was like, Oh, my. Exactly. It was like that bit in hocus pocus when the man finally gets his horrible, The mouth unsewn And he coughs out loads of bits of like

Paper it looks like Because he's so dry Cobbubbs and stuff Yeah Could be Yeah yeah yeah exactly that So that's what I'm saying Like it's all too much

Remember we went to a Extremely Christian wedding Of a distant relative once And the groom had obviously not spoken all day And was obviously so nervous Oh gosh And then when they got to him in the church

Said He made the funniest That was like Oh great I don't know So funny. And everybody, luckily, he's a good guy. We weren't embarrassed for him.

Everyone just laughed at but with him. But it really made me laugh of like, don't let it be too much. The flip side of this point is if you see a wallflower, go and rescue them, but don't rely on people to come and get you. You just have to be like, oh, fuck this, okay. And I can't.

Like, I've just got to bite this bullet. And don't be like, oh, I'm so shit at this. Everybody is shit at it. Everyone is just biting the bullet. We're all in the same boat. That's why people have asked us to do a small talk episode everybody, even extroverts hate small talk. My sister's really extrovert and she has to, for her job,

she often meets people she doesn't know. And she gets to a limit. And then she like has to not do it for a few days because otherwise she feels like she's run dry and can't do it anymore. And I think no one goes, I actually love small talk. No one's ever said that.

No. You like what it can get you and maybe in it, you like that it's the first stage into maybe like meeting someone having a nice time. Yeah, meeting with people is nice. But no one goes like, I can't wait for that small talk. this party. I can't wait. I can't make to meet some strangers and have to size them up in the first 30 seconds and then say something hilarious to show them who I am. Exactly. And that is what we all feel like small talk

is, but we need to remove that because it's not. You don't have to say anything hilarious. You don't have to be funny. You don't even have to be interesting. You just have to get your bomb out. Get it out. That is the kind of takeaway. And if you do see people in your periphery who are like, you know, understanding, you know, be like, oh, welcome in. Do you know so and so? Yes, get them in. Yeah. If you personally have forgotten absolutely everyone's name ever, which is me. You just say, do you guys know each other? And you sort of gesture with your hands.

The hand is the gesturing of an old aunt. I think if you are in a situation where you don't know anyone's name, that's just one of those things is like, it's an awkward situation. And I think just, if you could, do everyone say their name again? Everyone should just, I think at the end of every sentence, say their own name. Say their own name.

Always. I think people only get annoyed when people don't remember your name when it's somebody that you've met like 17 times. That is annoying. But also, I've done that before as well. And that's just the way, that's just the way life goes. Yes, a few people have guessed incorrectly. So I think, just never do that. Yeah, and don't guess incorrectly.

Or make a sort of coughing noise and hope that it sounds like that. And I was at uni, that's what you used to do? But like, this is, like, what have you done that? Then you did be like, anyone got any laundry to do? Anyone got any, what's the size and dimensions of your laundry basket? And then I'd leave. Very hard, very hard. But yes, again, the sheer force of your personality just plowing you through.

It's really hard. This is my final tip. A lot of style over substance, if I'm honest. Is the tip go and have a bath off with you the conversation? If it's too much, pop out and have a... For God's sake. No, the tip is, they taught us that at school, a very weird lady came into a talk. Oh, my God, I remember this.

It's not the Lunge and Laugh. Oh, okay. Or saying bing. Sorry, these were the tips from the same, absolutely cracker's woman. I go to a school and literally told them that if they want to go into a group discussion, they should say bing. You say bing. And it makes you stand up right, and you smile, and then you're ready to go.

into the room. It's staggering. You want to be in on the group. You don't know how to get in. You wait for the punchline. They all laugh. You lunge and love. And then by the time, then you pop up,

but though you've always been there. Even at age 13, I remember I was listening to this talk and being like, this is a crock of shit. This is a crock of shit. This is a woman, we were like, I don't believe you've ever been to a party. Anyway, this is the last thing. And this is the actual useful thing that she did say. That has stood us in fantastic stead.

Get two drinks from the bar. Oh. This is provided they're free. It's free. Or you're loaded, I guess. If you're loaded, get two. then people assume you've got somewhere to go with your second drink. You've got a friend waiting.

So then I bump into you and we're chatting and you're absolutely awful. So I say, well, it's so great to meet you. I've just got to go and give this to Simon. Oh my God, I've got chills. That is the perfect where it's... Fuck me, that is good. Simon doesn't exist. You just gesture across the room and then you leave.

What if it's quite a small party? Then you just go and stand by a wall on your own. Yeah, there's nowhere to go. Okay. If there's only six of you, find somebody... Because also, I suppose, everyone wants a drink. So find someone and be like, I've actually, I've just, my friend's gone, just, do you want this?

Exactly. So it works on both ways. You can either leave a terrible one or if someone's good, you can be like, you're chatting and they seem great. And you're like, I don't know where my friend has gone. So already you give the illusion that you've got another friend, which you don't. And then you say, do you want this? And then I was like, oh, lovely, of course.

Thank you. I'd love that drink. How did that tip come from a woman who said Bing before going to her room? I know, right? It was like, it was a crock of shit with this one sweet. diamond at the bottom of the crock, you know? It was fantastic. And it is so unbelievably useful.

And even if then you're like, I'm so sorry I've had to leave this terrible conversation. Do you want this? Oh, that's always fun as well, scapegoating. No, don't do it because then they'll be like, oh, that's my cousin Jan. You know? Once at a wedding, a man was playing guitar. I went to turn to the stranger beside me to say, he looks like an absolute dickhead. And then I stopped myself.

My brain was like, come on. I turned and said, isn't the guitar fantastic? and the guy said, yes, that's my dad. Wow, really strong work. Don't lead with a bitch. Don't be snide. Don't be mean. Keep them inside.

I think you can, if the function is absolutely dreadful. Don't get your truth. Don't get your truth out. Get your best, your showroom out. Get your best version of yourself. Get your showroom. Yes. Don't your actual bomb out. Get your showroom bomb out.

Like your best. Your best version of yourself. You polished ass. You're polished sweet ass that is like a respectable enough. Don't keep the real you. Keep that way down. Keep that down. Below the show,

and then if you meet someone fantastic, you'd like, do you want to see my real bud? Yes. That's always. How thrilling when you're very, like, boring function. Well, you've just met a stranger

and you get to meet you and show your real butt. Oh, my gosh. But you can only get to the real butt if you show butt first. Yes, that is a take note. Genuinely, hope that helped. We hope you don't get put in jail for indecent exposure.

Please do email us if you have any good suggestions for podcast. Nobody Panicpod at gmail.com. And then tweet us at Nobody PanicPot. Me at Stevie M. BS is a 5, by the way. Jessica, it's normal. Absolutely normal. And yeah, see you next week.

And just practice that sweet small talk, baby.