Nobody Panic - How to be your own boss: Admin 101 with Gandy's

Episode Date: June 21, 2019

In our final episode of iZettle Careers Week we met the completely incredible boys behind Gandy’s.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. I don't want to be talking to loads of different people who've started their own businesses to help you guys

with some advice and help and just finding out some stuff, do I mean? We want to thank I Zettle for sponsoring this. I Zettle have their own podcast, been there, done that, so check that out for loads of good tips. And also their blog, the business owners blog, for loads of other great tips that may be on the podcast, do you know what I mean? You can't do them all.

You can't do them all. You could listen while reading, but I'd say it do it separately. So really excitingly today, we're talking about. about admin, which is a thing that I'm terrible at, but we have excellent guests who are going to help us out. We have financial controller at Gandy's Matthew Upton, known as Matt. Hi. And then co-founder, yeah, yeah, you're not allowed to say hi, this is train and it's rolling. And then co-founder of Gandhi's Paul, whose brother Rob is not here.

Sorry about that, yeah, you're stuck with me. Yeah, I'm really upset about that. Rob's not as fun, though. Okay, yeah, actually Matt's already said that. The younger brother, the older brother? Younger brother. You're younger? Yeah.

Yeah, the cool one. The cool one. Old one, anxious and uptight, right? Exactly. Yeah. I'm the older sister. Oh, I'm the older sister. Absolutely nightmare.

Yeah, so do you want to tell us a little bit about Gandy's? Then I keep looking at both of you, but whoever wants to... How does it start? Probably me. You started it. Yeah, so I might as well say. Yeah, go on. Yeah, basically, me and my brother left...

school at a young age we moved to India and we went there for a Christmas holiday and we came back from our Christmas holiday and our parents said to us what did you think of your holiday we said it was amazing best holiday we'd ever been on the house was being sold and basically they sold the house really quickly and a week later they said look going to school tell the teachers that you're moving so I went in and said miss I'm moving to India what a family have my shirt will signed and on the end of the week the teacher goes, Paul, what have you done to your shirt? I said, oh, signed it. I'm moving to India tomorrow. She goes, what, I thought you were joking? And me and my brother are both sort of dyslexic. We didn't get on too well at school.

And she rang up my mother and he said, yeah, did he not tell you? And she's like, yeah, he did. But like, you could at least do a note all of this sort of stuff. How old are you at this point? I was 11. Okay. Rob was 13. And then there's six siblings all together. but me and Rob run Gandy's together. And yeah, basically that was it. Check with my mum. Saw that it was true. Parents had packed one bag, stopped off in Jordan,

traveled all around. We were only going to go for six months. Ended up being four and a half years and we had some amazing experiences. We live like hippies. We played cricket on the beach. Volunteered in slums, went to orphanages as well, volunteered there.

kind of saw India and loads of other places and learn stuff along the way and then unfortunately in 2004 we went over to Sri Lanka we were sort of travelling round and surfing and Christmas came

and the next day was boxing day and we lost both our parents and we had to hitchhike home and our world was basically turned upside down and we came back to England and our older sister kind of adopted us, took us in and stuff. And no one knew anything. A few years went by.

And my brother flew out to Australia for my 21st birthday and told me about the idea of Gandy's. And the idea was basically to sell enough pairs of flip-flops to be able to build a children's home for all of the people and our parents that lost their lives. And we built it and we built in two this year. And this will be our fourth one. that we're doing. And our goal is to basically have our projects all around the world. And people to basically travel. We have this mantra in our office don't just exist.

We want people to basically live life to the fullest. And basically we have a few stores and this is how we use Isil that's a sponsor in the podcast. Amazing. My God. Incredible. So when did Gandhi's first start? 2012. So since then, I mean, you've now, you're now, you're now.

it used to be flip-flops and now it's bag because it's it was everything isn't it it's clothing yeah it's now lifestyle clothing yeah yeah when we first started the first couple of years was just flip-flops right and then we got asked we got asked by a department store to do some swim shorts and we beat do some swam-shorts yeah so we can't say no to them and um to redesign them and basically our designs uh with flip-flops they literally beat like all of the big American ones with like the horse on them and like yeah everyone and we were like oh my god how do we beat them every week on sales so we were like oh let's uh design other products and then it kind of like went from there naturally we branched out sorry who are you being you were being the one with the horse on

yeah in flipflops in swim shorts so they designed those swim shorts then they like just kicked off apparently yeah so we then like okay what about we do let's keep going what i was going yeah we did it naturally we started off like with summer accessories um and then we slowly into winter and that so it's like we've done it slowly organically and is it online only or do you have stores we have stores but it's online's our biggest store yeah yeah and that gandyslondon dot com yeah right okay just go on that and have a load this is really great also what i really like about it it's very like when you go on the website you feel like i want to go well i feel like i feel like i want to go traveling immediately.

Like, it's got a real vibe of like... That's kind of, yeah. And when you think of travel, like brands as well, you normally think of like ones that are practical. With all of our stuff, it's like travel-inspired, but you could like wear it to like a barbecue. Yeah, well, both of you are wearing a lovely jacket today.

The same jacket, in fact. Yeah, I didn't know that. It's a really cool jacket. This is the promo just going around town looking real fly in them. Your initial goal was to, but making sell enough flip-flops for one children's home is that right yeah that was the first goal so we started in our bedroom i was sleeping on the sofa living on beans on toast corn flakes and stuff

for a couple of years and we didn't have a clue about admin or business or anything and it was basically just kind of teach ourselves if we didn't know the answer or google it or just meet as many people as possible and ask them yeah because you just said it's not like you didn't you know saying that you didn't get on well at school and stuff is such a I often think when people start businesses like oh well they were probably you know they probably have like an economics degree or do you know what I mean like they probably but it's so great to sort of you don't have to like you can learn all of that stuff outside of school like it's you can just get other people in to do stuff if you're like well I'm not quite good at that like you can get get people to help you I think it's very

inspirational without wanting to use the word inspirational because you know it's a bit of a lame word but it's very inspirational. Thanks. Yeah, you definitely, people that go to union stuff, sometimes are an expert in a field, where me and my brother, by not going to it,

we felt like, oh, shit, we need to work harder. Yeah. And we felt like we were behind everyone else that did go there, so that's kind of also that drove us. Yeah, and so presumably that initial thing, you've well surpassed that thing that you set out to achieve,

that wanting to pay for a school, you presumably are so far beyond that now. You're on your fourth now. On our fourth, yeah. Yeah. And the goal always was, people thought we were crazy when we said, we were crazy,

when we said, oh, we're going to set a flip-flop company up in the UK, you know, like the weather today. Yeah. You only get two weeks of sun. But the goal was always to basically have people wearing our products around the world.

You can see that the travel by, like people, our customers go around the world and send us pictures in. And to have our projects around the world. and we'll still be doing this in 20, 30 years time. I don't know how many projects will I have. But yeah, that's kind of the goal. Incredible.

It's amazing. Amazing. And in terms of actually setting up a business, like what was the hardest, if I was going to say now, like, oh, I'll set up a business. Is there something that you'd be like, you won't know this, but oh my God,

make sure you do this. Yeah, make sure it's your life and you're happy that you're going to obsess with it. You'll wake up in the morning and it'll be just Gandy's to go to bed at night. It's just gandies. Regardless of what business it is, you're just being of Gandy.

They're not Gandy's, but remember, no matter what you do, we'll be in your head. Gandy's will be there. Gandy's thinking about Gandy. Yeah, that's good. And it's always hard. It's like, make or break.

And don't listen. English people will always like to say, no, you can't do that. It's quite hard. Classic English people. Classic, yeah. And you basically just have to like say, no, I'm doing it and go for it.

And some people, was sit on the fence and like to sort of like laugh or whatever because you're being bold and you're stepping out of the mold but basically just just go for it and don't look back and yeah like the the hardest thing was us no one knew who we were we had no we had no we had no we have an idea and then anyone can have an idea like we had the product and stuff and it was basically just getting the name out there and getting people aware of what we're doing and what we're doing and what we are and now whenever we bring products like we did a special edition backpack last week and within a couple of days it just sells out that's excellent because now you've got

a name now that people are like yeah we're lucky in that sense you're lucky and also you made a great thing and you work you worked very hard yeah and you make something good that people want yeah because I don't know I think only a small part of that yeah and so Matt at what point did you come on board join candies family about three years ago yeah about three years ago and I think we, I kind of joined when we were, when you started, what, doing the swim shorts. Yeah. So we were going from a summer kind of brand into more of a, we were just about to launch our autumn winter collection.

And I mean, the key at that stage was that we were trying to find in essence of what kind of product is key for us going forward. So we did a lot of testing, didn't we? And that's where we found out about our barley backpacks, which is our key product at the moment so yeah we did a lot of testing the backpack is now out so out out strips out runs is better than everyone else like as in the backpack is your number one seller yeah yeah 100% and how do you test so how do you how do you how do you go about testing is like do you no no no no no so i think in essence the beauty of the brand is that we have an ability to um test things on our on a because we're

growing all the time so So in those kind of basis of the stores, you can kind of test it in store, see how it reacts. And then, okay, we've got a good seller here. And we get a good feedback from the customers. And we still got customers from when you first started. They hook, I think, you know, it is. They believe in the ethos of the brand. And hopefully we continue to surpass with the products what we're doing.

And every year we're evolving. And also like now it's really. because now is a very difficult time for buying clothes in the way that people are very aware of what they're buying and the damage that that may or may not be doing, you know, like fast fashion and things like that. And the fact that your clothes are doing good, I think, is, I don't know, 10 years ago, I had no idea that that was like, I didn't even think about where my clothes came or what they were doing. When we first started, we started off with an eco-friendly flip-flop. Yeah, I remember that, yeah.

And I used to go into shops, and they used to literally, like, laugh at me because it was. like it's too eco-friendly and you're going there you're trying to get it stocked in like cool designer uh shops um but now now you uh you go in there and the old person that would be doing the buy and the shop owner is now like i've got this one this is made from this this is made from bamboo this is and i'm like what the hell like seven years ago used to talk to you and used to like laugh at the environment stuff yeah but now like the press and everyone and if they want to people want to get a younger customer you have to make sure your products are made ethically yeah absolutely that's the way the world's going well yeah because it's going down but they're 100% yeah it is unfortunately but um

that kind of goes without ethos and it's something we strive to uh continuing our products and i think that's the way we're going to go forward as well yeah excellent so in terms of admin and in terms of what happens when you become your own boss and you don't have anybody above you going like don't worry, I'll do that. What are the sort of main things that, admin-wise, that you guys have to, like, keep an eye on that people listening will be like, oh, yes, that'll be, yeah, I didn't think of that. Well, you're the boss. You tell me. Yeah, go. I love you because he's like, it was looking at me, yeah, no, absolutely. Well, the most important thing is, in any business, is always sales. Yeah. So, like, even if it's marketing or whatever, like, product designs,

the design, everything's important, but it needs to basically sell. Yeah. How do you do that? Like how when you first started from your bedroom like how did you get people to buy your flip flops? Um, well you have to basically keep listening to the customer. Mm hmm. Um, and you have to keep going back to a drawing board and making it better. Yeah. And even if you have made it better, we have a rule like we don't like to reorder stuff.

It has to be tweaked and made better. Okay. So like, um, even if we've got like a bag that, say, you think, it's the same bag but we'll improve the lining so like we'll put a map print as the lining will wax it you know we're basically like how can we make it stronger better and basically it's all about doing that but making sure we're getting the admin done around the sales and stuff yeah and making sure that we don't say something didn't sell we're making that we're analyzing the data the admin is done

to kind of work towards getting the product better, I think. Yeah, absolutely. Where do you get the information that you, where do you get those improvements from when you say, like, we added wax? We put a map print on the inside. Is that customer feedback? Are they telling you that they want something? A little bit customer feedback.

I go into other people's stores and I get inspiration from them. Like I designed one bag once before the court stitch and I took it from a vintage car. So like I'm always like in the seat of a bit random. I saw an old Ferrari and I was like, oh, that's so pretty. And then we put it into a bag. But anything like on a weekend or something, so I'd go to a museum or something,

I'll be like, okay, that's really cool. And then it's really hard to explain over a podcast. But I then put it on a mood board. It's okay. Keep going. I believe you can explain it. We put it on a mood board on that. Or even Instagram is really good for finding.

inspiration and then we put it together and we basically has to tell a story and every product we make has to tell a story and all of our stories come back to a person that likes to travel and that's how we talk to our customer as well is it we're kind of talk in this language that there are 25 year old traveller and someone who's 35 45 wants to also be spoken to in that way we capture that youth yeah exactly and then an 18 year old also wants to be that 25 or a traveller. Yeah. Oh God, that's true, but depressing, but true in uplifting.

All at one. So take you back in time to your, you're eating your corn flakes, you and your brother have got this brilliant idea, and presumably then you buy in all your flip-flops, and what is the transitional moment between you're just two guys with an idea to you're making your first sale? Our first sale was quite funny. That was from Facebook.

It was to each other. Um, but it was from Facebook. We basically, um, I moved back from Australia because I was living there. And, um,

we put a picture up and we shared it on, uh, our Facebook saying, oh, here's our new, like, like, page,

please like and share, et cetera, like to our friends and family. Um, and then, um, a friend of mine who I was in a hostel with in Australia, like backpacking,

shared it. And, uh, her friend in Germany bought, bought a pair. So the first ever, that was the first one. Oh,

that's great. Um, I'm, oh, brilliant. This is so cool And I've then like Run down to the post office

Packaged it up like horribly And like a gray A gray bag And then we're like Let's do some more like Social media stuff And then basically every day The

I had like a sack Every day the sack got bigger and bigger And I was like I can't keep driving down This is like becoming crazy But yeah that's basically how we did it And then we were like Okay let's try some other ways of getting sales

So then like I'd go hand out postcards outside the tube station for the whole day. And then I'd come back and I'd be like, so how many of us sold? How many? And I'd be like, none. That was a waste of a day. It takes time for people to go from postcards to sale, you know?

It might have like, you might have seen like a sale in two days' time, you know? Like, just to be. I didn't. Okay. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for trying to help. And so, but when you said your sack was too big, is this the stack that you're taking down to the post office?

The post office, yeah. So then at some point you transition into having your own courier, your own post office, your own underground railroad. We then used some mates to do it. Okay. And they were setting a logistics company up and they were starting out. So they also had their other jobs. So then they couldn't go full time on us to do it. So then we were like, okay, that didn't work.

So then we used the proper company. Nice. And then when he's making these flip-flops, by the way, like. We were getting them handmade in India by the wives who weren't employed in the villages. Oh, God. When we first started. And they were really eco-friendly. But then we couldn't make, you could only make a thousand pairs, and they would take, like, a year to make them.

And we were like a... Two-fly. Yeah. And we were trying to get, we were like, trying to get them stocked into self-fugees. And we'd done, like, some collaborations and stuff with, like, the Rolling Stones, McLaren and that. and they want like some of them more than thousands. And these villages, they used to ham write the shoe size on with a biro pen. So when you're trying to get into self-fugees and you're saying,

oh, this is, they were like proper, eco-friendly, handmaid. And so then, and so now who's making them? Robots. Yeah, Robots. Robot Indian Wires. No, it's not robots. They're kind of, sort of ethically sourced. So the rubber's like farmed, but they're like made on a production.

line. Okay. And they're like made like jelly moulds sort of thing. Okay. And then there's the straps that put through. Flipflops have to be basically made like that mass produce. Yeah. Because of the tall-in and stuff. Yeah. I mean. And are they all the product? All of other products are handmade. Okay. Oh wow. But and are they, are they made of plastic? No, rubber. Oh, I see farmed rubber. I'm on board now. Yes. Wow. Wow. The jump between, yeah, like just going to make something and now where it is now is quite different yeah for someone who hasn't started the business it's so like what how but how but yeah i suppose that going you know you're you're like i'll just get a company to do it the more you sell the more money you get the more

you're able to use more and more professional kind of outsourcing yeah exactly exactly yeah and now we do all of it in-house because we can basically just be quicker yeah getting stuff out when black friday or something a bank holiday weekend comes. If you have it outsourced, all of the other clients who have had a big sale, they then go to the bigger clients or they're too stretched because they're trying to deal with them.

So by us, everyone's in like, all of our guys, like, we just love our customer so much. We'll do anything for our customer. So it's important having it in-house, basically, for us. And you mentioned social media as well being like, well, I've got to sell off Facebook. Great. That's like an admin thing

that people don't really think of as Adamen, but it is. Like, how do you, how did you at the start work with the social media thing? Like, was it just you and Rob doing it? Or did you get other people to help? It was me and my brother doing it. Great, okay. Wow. Is it still that? Actually, Rob does quite a bit.

I do quite, I was like six months ago. I've just come off it. Right, got it. Yeah. But Rob's kind of off it. We've now got like, there's now, like, three people that, manage it and there's now experts that can make videos and stuff. Great.

Whereas me and Rob were kind of good with pictures. Yeah. Having a great time. And at some point it always said you have to just upgrade out of the handmade flip-flops to the factory. At some point you have to upgrade from you on the social media to an expert. Yeah. With everything.

Exactly, yeah. And in terms of like, just basically financing a business like this, how do you, what's helpful for you? Like how, which is me, then isn't. I suppose it is you, yeah. you started three years ago so what was like the first thing that you helped them with and like how what are helpful things i mean to be honest so the first time i joined gandies we were still relatively small how many was there five uh yeah and hey yeah it was about five yeah five of us

um so it was literally all hands on deck it's um literally you need to be able to go into different roles as much as possible so when we guys to finance it wouldn't just be selling my job. If a customer needs a parcel, we would do that and any admin, you name it, we do it. And if you don't know, you Google it. Exactly, yeah. So, I mean, the finance role has grown quite considerably over the years. We've mentioned I Zettle. That's certainly helped with in regards to the card transaction fee. We were dealing with another card reader and we would charge a lot more. So even that was able to show up a little bit. and we did a few things with account systems and stuff like that so the great thing about Gandhi is because it's so at the start and there's kind of a mantra in the sense of the guys are fearless so that rubs off on you and we don't actually know when to stop in a nicest term in a sense that we're not kind of governed by oh you can't do that we carry on until we actually get the job done so that crosses all of it.

all the departments of company at the moment. And because of that, we've been able to evolve the finance in that. So when I first joined, it wasn't modern at all. But now we've been able to go. I mean, cloud is everywhere now. Everything's on cloud. So even that sense is. When you said it wasn't modern at all, was it like an old ledger?

Yeah. Well, it was more onto software, which we spoke onto a computer there And then, but I wanted to get on a cloud device because I thought that was where it was going. And I wanted to try that kind of aspect. So Issel was one of the avenues. So we tried that and we changed everything and that. And all of that was able to, you know, if you deal with accountants, you just ping across to them and they can go into the software there and then. So even the smoothness.

Exactly. And I think even that, being able to join a company like Andies and modernise that kind of aspect and being allowed to without any. corporate structure or anything like that, kind of makes us a bit more ahead of the curve in that sense than what we probably should be. And that's exactly with Paul saying about Facebook. You think everybody does Facebook advertise and then the shop and everything on there.

He was doing it seven years ago. Yeah. Yes, you saying like going back into the shop when the guys have now all got bamboo and eco flip-flops that they wouldn't even look at you all those years ago, It sounds like you guys from the very beginning have just been doing stuff that was so ahead of the curve. And then everybody else has had to catch up with you. I mean, you have to believe in what you're doing as well.

I think we've had a, the guys certainly had a clear message from the off. And no one was going to distract him from achieving that goal. So from that perspective becomes a lot more simpler. Any other distraction is, it doesn't really matter because we need to achieve that goal and to provide a better product for the customer. Have you made a question for both of you. Have you made any like absolute clangers mistakes that you've gone like, oh, and you've learned from, you know, like along the way. Be nice to me now. Isn't he?

Has Matt ever fucked up? No, I don't mean that. I just mean like your public appraisal and we've all come in here today to record it. Well, luckily he's on the other side of the table now. So that's got some distance between me and him. Thank God. I'll break it up with some sort of fight. But just in terms like, oh, try that.

That was, you know, I don't know, is there anything that springs to mind? If not, that's fine. I can't think of... It's been perfect the whole time. My brother could. He'll name a list of things that I've done like Clangham. Yeah, what me and you have done, but never what he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's perfect. Whatever he does, he hides. Yeah. He's good at it. Yeah. Okay, no, that's fine. Well, from, on that part, kind of a little bit off that a little bit. I think there's a plan A, and we all go into plan A,

but then we might end up on plan T or whatever but plan T was always supposed to be the destination we were just unaware of that you need to go through plan A, play plan B and all this kind of stuff A politician's answer to a mistake Yeah exactly This was always the right part It's plan T guys

Exactly because you kind of The mistakes The reason I ask is because the mistakes Make the thing good Like you don't you know You're just like you're constantly moving with like Oh that didn't work oh no Well now we're here

what do I think is yeah you could never you wouldn't know you would know it was T you have to go through all the letters in order to

and T was always he would have been rubbish exactly it was so good to have backup plans as well I don't think you know because I think

if I was going to do a business I'd just be like this and I wouldn't think of any of the deviations from that

you know like that and I'm going to do it this way and then you're like actually that wouldn't work at all

you're like no I'm no okay well I'll have to cancel it then whereas being able to be flexible

I'm being like I always think Oh, sure. As we all do. Every day of my life. I think about it every day how it came to handing in your sketchbook at the very end of term, like right before our exam,

and you were supposed to, in this sketchbook, have built all your ideas towards your final piece, and nobody had done it. Everyone had just started their final piece, and so everyone was spending this week back-ending their sketchbook, just like making stuff up. Pretending that they'd gone down this alleyway

and then got actually no? And then they thought differently, and then they were like, And it was, you had to show how you'd like tried an idea and actually you'd ended up here. And these were all the marks for this and everyone was just making it up. And every single person in doing that was like, oh, that's excellent. Oh, I should have. Oh, God, that would have been good actually.

I'm prepared and actually worked through my idea. Exactly. So actually doing this like fake back end, it did indirectly teach us that actually there is a reason that you practice and you trial things and you and then you find a better path. And all of us have handed in plan A where really there was a plan T. never made it. And you've become more knowledgeable every time you do it. And less stress because you're not trying to back end.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It teaches you such a valuable lesson. We all did lyrics to Christina Aguilera's stripped. That was what we did for our art. We did like everyone. That album had come out that year.

Was everybody in the class? Literally every girl was like, I've got a really clever idea. And it was just like a picture of them looking sad and like broken. And then like, I'm beautiful no matter what they say. words can't bring me down. The art teacher was just like, I want to resign. What my daughter?

I made a clay dragon. How was this? Did you? Of course you did. Of course you did. A clay dragon. I bet it looked great. Thank you.

He's still very much around. Yes, right. So other things, so if you had like a little, a little Paul who was like, oh, I want to do what you did, Paul, any other pieces of information that you would bestow upon them to be like, You know, you might think this, but actually, I found, I don't know, anything else. I would recommend doing it with someone. Yes.

So that if you're struggling and they've got something good going on, you kind of help each other through the tough times. Yeah. Because, yeah, there's definitely going to be tough times, even tough times ahead. So, yeah, I'd recommend that. I always say about not taking no as an answer. Seems like a common theme. Yeah.

It's good. Yeah, when we used to call people up at the start, and our website as well that was made, um, it looked like it was made by like a six-year-old. It was awful. It costs us like 400 quid.

Oh, God. The imagery, everything was crap. And when you used to call people up, none would want to speak to us. They'd kind of just be like, uh, yeah, basically you just have to be persistent and,

uh, be up for the fight and grind it out if I was a young, poor. Yeah. That's what I'd recommend. And also it's weird now because like back then, you had, obviously all companies have to have a website now, of course. But like what you're like on Instagram and Twitter or whatever is just as important as a website now, isn't it?

And it's, but back then, yeah, if you didn't have a good website, you were just looking at me like, well, this is a child, then I guess this is a child who runs this business. Yeah, that's exactly it. Which is cute, but I'm not buying it. But like our photos shoots, because we started with no money. our website was dirty and then our photo shoots we couldn't afford to pay models and stuff so literally I would just get the flip flops put them in the bathtub to get the white back drop

and use my shitty phone and that's our photo shoot you know and you're competing against big big brands but you did it you did it I think that's you've got so much heart and you care and at the end of the day like nothing nothing is as valuable as that about how much you care and believe in what it is. The moment I put in a flip-flop in a bathtub and got my phone out, I'd be like, I have to back out of this. Whereas the buddy, you were like, no, this is actually going to work. Like, we're going to, this is good. This is good stuff, I think is, yeah, it's great.

It's a great sort of lesson to be like, no, just, if you don't have all the stuff, just keep going until you get the stuff. You know, like, you weren't competing with those brands then, but because you kept going, now you, now you've beat the one with the horse on it. Yeah, yeah, you have to, yeah, you have to, like, start small. and just keep going. Did you get a photographer in the end? Yeah, yeah. They just got back from Portugal. Oh, hello.

Now it's the real deal. Real deal, yeah. You had a camera person, video person. Yeah, it's good. And I had professional models, wasn't you. Was you? Just loads of your foot. You really hit the big time.

Do you think that what you and your family went through that now sort of you just sort of take all these business, you know, crisis in your stride a bit? because you've got some, yeah, perspective. Yeah, it definitely helped. Definitely, like, from obviously losing our parents, anything that comes in business that's bad, we're like, okay, well, that's not that bad.

It's not that bad, yeah. Worse stuff's happened, like, stop winching. Yeah, like get back up and get on of it, sort of thing. So, yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely helped us have made us more resilient and tough, like stronger. Also, like people say often, you know, don't start a business unless you're really passionate about the thing

because, like you said, it takes up your every waking hour. And I think Gandhi's is such a good example of, like, one end of the extreme spectrum of, like, the, like, you had such a reason to start it and such a thing to kind of aim towards building that school and, like, such a personal, it just shows, like, so your rise throughout, you know, from being flip-flops to what you are now,

isn't surprising because you had that call already. Like, I think that's one of the one things that people keep saying is that don't just do something. Because you're like, I think people will like this. Like, do it because you're like, oh, I want to do this. It definitely helps. Yeah, because you can work seven days a week. But, like, yeah, I was in Portugal on a weekend. And to me, it doesn't matter, like working seven days a week because it's like a lifestyle.

Yeah. We're doing our projects. We're designing cool stuff. Yeah, we work hard on that, but I'm very lucky. We've got shops in London and stuff. So it's like so much. It's so fun. And I'm working my brother.

Yeah. Yeah. And always exciting. You were like you saying that you saw a pretty pattern on a Ferrari seat and you're like, that's cool. Let's make something out of that. Yeah, yeah. You're always inspired.

You know, the business is constantly moving and evolving and making cool new. staff. Yeah. And it always feels like you're reaching somewhere. Yeah. Are there any bits of advice that we haven't got to that you have that would be good for people starting up their own biz?

Your special top tips that got green lit by your boss? Well, I'm a firm believer of reading books. Absolutely. So I think. Jonah. Yeah. Well, you can learn a lot. White Fang, just all the classics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, I'm a firm belief of books. I think for me personally, I think if you think you're, you've come in and you've hit the jackpot, then there's always someone who's looking, now I want that spot. So there's always a game of kind of chess. So I feel like you always need to be developing yourself. And I'm a keen believer on that. So there's a lot of lessons you can learn from, even history books from all the generals and all that kind of stuff.

Abraham Lincoln or this kind of stuff, which you can put into the work and business environment. But, hey, that's me personally. Key bit of historical. Read up on generals. Key thing that you've really a historical piece that you keep with you all the time? I love anything. Anything. Excellent.

A particular moment that you thought, yes, Abe. That's going to be my business lifestyle. So I just think from where he started from. And he just learned so much from all of these failings into. be able to unite a country during a very bad time. Do you want to be president? Is this what's happening? No.

No, no, no. I'm not keenly, I think. Of course, you have to be American to be a president, don't you obviously? I'll back you if you want to go for it. I'll back you as well. Honestly, I'll back you. I feel like I need more than two, though. But I do appreciate that.

I'm not saying I'll vote for you. I'll come on as a campaign. Oh, I won't vote for you. I won't vote for you. Come on. No, I'll come in and I'll run your campaign. I'll back you. Are there any, um,

so business books or anything that you particularly recommend? I really like Ray Dalio Principles book. One of my favourite. Yeah. We both sounded like absolutely. They've switched off now.

I can see it. I have it. I'm going to read that. Ray. Ray Dalio. Ray Dalio. And there's a book called a bit more spiritual about a monkey

stole. Sold a Ferrari. A monkey stole. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anything like that. Yeah. Anything which you can be mind active. I read that book when I was a kid.

You didn't. You didn't? I did. I did. I did. I did it in India. I did. I did it.

I did it. Do you like it? Yeah, I did, yeah. I can't tell me. Go on. What's it called? It's about a monk. It's about a guy in America or saying that basically moves to Tibet or the people are saying.

Yeah. And he sells his Ferrari. Yeah. He has his life. There you go live like a monk, basically. Wow. It's like eat, pray, love, but for monks. I don't know how you do it, Paul.

Linguistically, he wasn't a monk who sold the Ferrari. He was a man who sold the Ferrari and then became a monk, if I may. I was like, well, yeah, what's this monk doing with the Ferrari? But it absolutely great. What's it called? What's it called? The monk who stole. Is it called?

No, sold. He didn't steal it. That was more of that. It's called the thief. Yeah, there's a big difference. And is the, what is the message? Is it about not having material goods? It's exactly about that, yeah.

And about there's more to life than working hard, business, etc. I love that your favourite business book is about how there's more to life than business. I think that's really great and important. I love that. And also, I didn't know you read that. That's why both of you were such a lack of confidence for you. It was like when you had that shoe dog book from the Nike owner. And I thought that was my book on your desk.

I was like, what? I was really annoyed with you. It's like, why have you nick in my books? You guys are just insane with each other. And you think he can't read. I honestly thought you stole a book. I've found it every day. It's basically the creation of Nike.

I imagine that's quite inspirational. It's very easy to be inspired by like, look at what this person has done in business. And I would like to also do that. But also, I've never thought about it at the other side of like, keep perspective because otherwise you can't do your business well. If you're completely only obsessed with that, you have to be aware that, you know,

there's more to life. So when something horrific happens, in terms of the business or the numbers, you can tell that I actually run a really great business. You know, the numbers and the business and the graphs, like, if they're wrong, then, you know, you're not so sad. But it'd be quite exhausting. Have you got a business hero?

Business hero, apart from Abraham Lincoln or Bay Abraham Lincoln. Be Abraham Lincoln? There's quite a few. I respect to, like, even Ralph Lauren, again, he's done the same. There's a few, yeah, some of the American ones have done, like, phenomenally well. even Branson as well The Virgin how he's made a brand

globally yeah there's a few everyone's got their strengths and weaknesses as well yeah the other thing I want you to point out it was kind of a vague one but I feel like

there's pretty much a market for anyone yeah I think what we kind of emphasise in here is that you just got to believe in what you're doing and what the product you're trying to sell and what the message you're trying to get out there. So I think as long as you put the graft in and truly believe in yourself,

then no one can tell you that you can't achieve it. Yeah, because there'll always be someone to buy what you want to sell. Is that kind of the... Exactly, yeah. What if I want to sell two left shoes? Yeah, but I can tell by your face, you don't believe in that. Oh, God, you're right. What if I want to sell B hotels?

She does want to do that. I do want to sell them. I see, yeah. You're so right. said you're so right. The B hotels will work though. Yeah. That's becoming on trend.

Yeah. People with the environment. I feel very passionately about it. You're so right. Me, you really hoisted me my own, my own platard. There you go. You could tell by my face that I didn't believe in it. You didn't.

Your face was quite obvious of being honest. But I, you know, it's so easy. You left me. It's like, right, well, I am. It's not a mindry, don't like. It's quite clear to everybody that you didn't believe in that idea and that would never go forward. Oh, God. The Be-Hs has a great idea.

This is why I get got by the tarot readers. But it's such an easy message. You can sell anything. Of course. My interpretation of that would be like, oh, sell any old is like, my interpretation of that is a cynical, sell any old rubbish.

But it's not. It's if you believe in the thing, you will be able to sell it. Like my tortoise hibernation box, travel box. Exactly. If you truly care about the thing, do either of you want to invest in our businesses? What's the, tell me about the tortoise?

I have tortoise. And you have to transport them. Do you actually have one? It's just a joke. No. Sorry, we will never be joking with you. No, there's no jokes. Okay, right.

Tell me more. Only honesty. I have a tortoise. And so you have, they hibernate, obviously. That's not obvious. They hibernate for like three months of the year. And when they hibernate, they have to remain below a certain temperature. Otherwise, they literally just start waking up.

And it's very bad for them to wake up and then you put them under again. So I've got tortoise and I want to go home for Christmas. But when my tortoise was hibernated, there was no. way I could take her home because she'd go above the temperature. So I want temperature to control. Like the film speed. It's like the film speed. There's a bomb and the bus.

But there's a tortoise. It's a sleeping tortoise and she mustn't wake up. Did you have to go to bus? Maybe. With a bomb. She couldn't travel. She couldn't travel. I couldn't leave her because she would wake up.

So I ended up just putting her in like a tortoise hotel. That's a separate thing. Unlike a bee hotel, which is full of hibernating tortoises. Anyway, the point is that I wanted to create for tortoise owners because it can't just just be me, a transportation box for tortoises who are under hibernation so you can go home for Christmas and you can, because you have to see them every day, you have to like give them air every day, you can't just like leave them somewhere. That was, I mean, it's not actually a business idea. It was just me, it was me being like, this is annoying. And then Tess was like, you should

start a business. I was like, I won't, but that would be my idea. But I think it's a thing, you've, you've, you have actively found something that you're like, this is a product I need, doesn't exist. I want to buy it. She had to give her to a, a very niche, though. I've never, I've never met a tortoise owner. I've always wondered what they are like. They're all the same as me. Really? No.

It had to go to it. It's called Dr. Alison Parker, the tortoise. She. She is called Dr. Alasenka. And she had to go to a woman's hotel. This is a woman called Anne who's got like 70 tortoises all in these massive fringes. Basically in like a morgue because they were all hibernated.

And I'm absolutely convinced that a different tortoise came home from that went. because you can't tell. Yeah, you can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. She's really chatty now.

Oh, really? She's a rabbit. She's a rabbit. A mammal has come back. Great. Do people pitch you their business ideas all the time because you started a business? Yeah, we do loads of stuff in schools and universities. That's different.

That's nice. So they've always got ideas and what they want to do when they leave university in schools and stuff. Some of the ideas are amazing, but it's all about. are they going to be passionate for long enough? Things can take a couple of years, a few years to get going. Worst idea you ever heard from a kid? We have people email and say, oh, we think we should get the kids to make the stuff in our projects

and sell it. And I was like, that would not go down well in the UK. But his idea was kind of like them to be working and making stuff. Right. So he wasn't like that child labour. Child labour, yeah. And we won't pay out that, like, you've built these schools. I just full of children.

Gandhi's factories. Gandhi's factory, yeah. And you're like, yeah, good idea, thanks. We'll table that one. Top tip, don't use child labour. You're so right with me, but you'd be being like, sorry, just bashing you. Bashing your Nikes. That, you like, can you be passionate enough for long enough is a more important question

than what is the product you're selling? Yeah, you have to be willing to basically grind it out. You can always look at people as well, some people that do stuff quicker. within a year or two years. How have they done that? But if you're starting something up, you need to just go, right, this is my lane. This is my lane, I'm taking my time.

Bee Hotel and Tortoise Box Lane. It's the day I'm a lane. Look, we stay in our lane. I feel very inspired, and I think the B hotels will be hitting your stores imminently. We'll do a collaboration where Gandis can do a design of the tortoise box, and then also we can sell things in the B hotel for the bees. Yeah, that'd be cool.

Yeah, yeah, just do it. Sorted. Sorted. Thank you so much, Paul and Matt, for coming in and well done on Gandis. It's amazing. And also to Rob, who's not here with us. He's not dead. He's just not here. But the, yeah, it's amazing.

And follow Gandies on social media. Go on Instagram at Gandy's London. Twitter at Gandieslondon. And website Gandyslondon.com. And thank you so much to I Zettle for making this happen. Like I said before, go on their podcast. been there, done that, loads of great tips and their blog, the business owner's blog.

For more great tips, if you're inspired by what Paul and Rob have created and what Matt is very much on board with them helping as well. Yeah, if you've never seen the Gandhi stuff, it's absolutely beautiful and also so practical and comfortable and ethical and environmentally friendly and all of the things

you could possibly want. Yeah, awesome. Absolutely dream. And thank you for listening. Beautifully designed. Thank you so much for listening as well. And yeah, happy careers week, Tessa. And happy Christmas to you, Stevie.

Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Thank you so much. Join us next time. Bye-bye.