Nobody Panic - How to Break Unhealthy Habits (Live at the London Podcast Festival)

Episode Date: September 10, 2019

Stevie and Tessa are BACK and breaking unhealthy habits. Tessa can’t stop going to Five Guys when it’s raining (yes, it counts as a habit) and Stevie is addicted to Googling weird stuff at 4am. They get tips from experts who sound made up and Tessa gives Stevie the greatest birthday present of her life. Produced and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true, Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Welcome to Nobody Panics. Here at the London Podcast Festival Atkins Place. We're so happy to be here.

I don't say this lightly. This place is slick as shit. It is. Oh, that's disgusting. It is. It is wet as a poo. They look after you so well. We've got, there's mugs, there's cups.

We've got free wine. There's a wine. They're like, they are, everybody, all the staff are incredible. Like, it's an amazing festival. And we are back after, when was the last one we did? You did some sneaky ones. Yeah. Tessa, it also sounds like we're talking about shit.

We officially sort of stopped in June. Yeah, June. And then Tessa whacked out a clangor, which was the... It's so sad, because my favourite episode of Nobody Panic was the one that I wasn't in. Which is the How to Write a Novel one. It's good, isn't it? Good shit. I'd say go back and listen to it, even if you don't want to write a novel.

It's really, really interesting. Yeah, I just interviewed some clever friends of ours. Some clever friends, yeah. So have a listen to that. But absolutely thrilled to be back and we will be here for I don't know we've got a season now We're going to do in seasons which is exciting We haven't decided how many so I guess the season ends when one of us dies Yes, so about 50 years

That's bleak Oh, okay very fast But today's episode Today's episode is how to break unhealthy habits Which I mean very close to my heart I smoked for a long time That was bad. Stopped. I did a crowd source of what my worst habits were because I don't smoke and I, apart of my gambling addiction, of course.

I haven't like got a proper... You don't really drink, you just gave the most fun. Yeah, I haven't really got a good vice. And so don't bite my nails, don't do anything, you know. As a man with the camera has just walked in and it was incredibly sinister. If those eyes were to say, oh, just carry on as normal, the energy of the walk burns. It was like a storm trooper.

It was a ginormous camera and I'm cool with it. So I don't know about any of it. Anyway, so I asked what other people, and that was a terrible mistake because people just came back with just personality flaws. No! Yeah, well, so I've got a couple on the loose. I was going to say, well, go on.

Should we go to, do you know? You add all things first and then do your personality flaws and then we'll get into the actual... Yeah, we'll get in deep. Because I think it's one that when we started doing it, I was like, oh, well, if you aren't, if you haven't got one that immediately, many of you will have to be like, oh my God, smoking. The hard boozing, the boozing, the nails or whatever.

Crack. But actually, we've crack. Yep, I've got to talk about it more. Yeah. If crack is your advice, well done for making it to the podcast festival. But like, I think the deeper you get in, you realize there are so many unhealthy things that we all do that are actually habits when you think they're just like guilty little cookie things you do.

Yes, yes, yes, they're actually like personality things or psychological issues. Deep psychological issues. Love getting to that. So, we're not going to do our adult thing. We're going to do your adult thing, which is my favourite bit because I just, I love, I love it. I love it. Okay, so let's alternate and we'll go until it feels like we should stop because everyone's bored. Okay.

Bought a candle from TK. Max, pumpkin spice flavour. Hello. And autumn is here. Is it? I'm sweaty, but yeah, fine. If pumpkin lattes are back in town, then the basic bitches are here. I love pumpkin, whoever that was, by the way. Yeah, Tess is a basic bitch.

Yeah, and you are. You were the last one to... Yes. I emailed the landlord about all the faults in my flat and a new lease. Very bold. That is good, bought a washing machine seal. I don't even know what that is. I'm imagining not the animal. I don't know. There's a seal that spins around very fast. although I did pay a man to fit it that's fine I'd say

as somebody who doesn't know what I'm just pop it yeah go on yes came to see this on my own exclamation mark good for you and also fucked up a large freelance project and haven't cried yet

yes we've all done it I've done so many of those got myself some tropical fish I wasn't expecting that so that wasn't what I was not expecting after spending weeks researching and prepping the tank

I didn't just rush into it. I think that's really strong. That's fantastic, because that's a sort of mad, that's the thing you'd buy on the way back from the fair, of course. You know, like... I think you're at the fair when you buy them

because they're in little bags. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels like a whim. So well done for not getting a fish on a whim. A whim. Had an adult conversation with my boss's boss about how much I hate my boss. Oh, wow.

Brutal! How beautiful is this person's handwriting? Oh my God. I honestly thought you'd printed that in advance. That's how good. And I was like, honestly, I was like, weird flex, but okay. What beautiful handwriting. Ordered a bouquet of flowers to be sent to my much older, much more successful cousin,

after she bought me Joe Malone perfume for my birthday. Present brinkmanship. I don't know what that means. I think it's like present upmanship. Yes, as in what? So is a Joe Malone candle not good or is that good? Wait, hang on. Who's that all the thing with that?

Great. I would like to know. Ben, do you have the roving mic? No pressure. No, I'm joking. And all I want to know is what does that mean? Groupmanship is like when you are trying to one up the next foot. So it's like what Boris Johnson is doing right now, right?

Got it. Oh, so top of course. Brink manship. So what did you get? Oh, push each other over the edge. Yeah, like who can do the bigger gesture. Oh, that's fantastic. In the hope that she now will do an even bigger gesture to say thank you for the flower.

Oh, my God. What would it be? She probably won't. She's too classy, but. I love that. I love that. Oh, what is what Joe Malone? perfume was it? Blackberry and Bay.

I can't remember. Oh, God. I was just like, this is the 30th thing. I now own. That's excellent. Get it on. Get it on. Wear it. Look it on. There's the ones to smell you. Get it on. Okay, great. Thank you so much.

Thank you for explaining as well. That was a lot of pressure put on you. Go on. Go on. You go ahead. Had the pleasure of organizing a theater trip for a group of adults 18 to 80. Oh, wow. Well, well done. How did that work? We've made our lunch for tomorrow.

Hashtag meal prep. Ashley and Barnaby. Oh, that's the feeling. Too. Test it. Look, I love that. Thank you, Ashley and Barnaby. Best wishes to you.

Oh, looked online for a new sofa for the first flat. I've bought on my own. Whoa. That's one that makes me very jealous. What did she do to her flat? She's bought it. Oh, bought it. Yeah.

Oh, how vulgar. Extraordinary behavior. I love that. No, well done. That is pure jealousy. see. I put three loads of washing on brackets in two days and paid Tens water. I really, it sounds like she just kept putting them in. Just get another one in, get it in. Get it in, get it in.

Wrote a list for the handyman of things to come to my flat to fix, including changing a light bulb, yeah, just a normal light bulb. I'm taking the day off work to supervise. Oh, my favourite is when I haven't read the full one. Yeah, and then you start. It's always a surprise. Yeah, oh, I love that. I was feeling a little under the weather, so I drank sherry instead of wine. at a house party. Did you bring the sherry? Sherry is excellent, though.

And then I got back in my carriage and I, who went to? Oh dear, can't read this way. Packed up to move house over a week before moving and it's all in boxes. No bin bags. That is actually very impressive. Actual boxes. Let's do two more.

Oh, God, the pressure. I hate making you choose. I know. I bought a new sponge. I've got one very similar to that. Witness somebody's will. It is as all, isn't it? But it doesn't fly from sort of death.

Okay, well, great. Let's not end on that one, even though I'm very impressed because I don't actually know what that is. I will. No, I know what a will is, but what does witnessing mean? Oh, um...

You... You know, you need, like, a grown-up with a job. Yes. So this person is, it was humble brag. They've got a job. So you can't be one. Sorry. You have to be a...

You have to be a... Podcast it won't come up. You have to be like a dentist or a lawyer or insurer or... You have to be like legit. Yeah. And then you can witness to say like, I promise I'm a real deal and this wasn't a lot. So you mean that the will is real? The will is real.

That's okay. Everyone gas, why it's like someone had died but they haven't. It's just a will's happened. Yeah, yeah. They're not... A will's happened. They ain't dead. A william has happened.

Okay, great. It's how... It's to stop all the murder. All the murder mystery. because they, they, you would like, change your will, you know. Oh, at the last minute, like, and they were like, if somebody had witnessed it, then they're like, then they'd be like, did you witness this will that got changed at the last minute?

And you'd be like, no. And then we'd be like, okay, murder, you know? Wow, you're so smart. Okay, this is my final one. Okay, okay. Your final one as well. Okay, oh, okay. I have to be strong here.

Okay. Okay, I'm doing it first then. Okay, final one. Use my Tesco Club card points to buy a new rail card. That is two and one. Tesco Club and Rail Card. That is just beautiful. I'm going to cry.

Yes, because you get a third off. Tessa loves rail cards. I love it. I love the rail card. And I love Tesco's Club card. Look at this. Ooh. That is.

Set up, this is, I mean, best of luck to you, set up a premium bonds account. What is that? Exactly. Don't explain it to me. It's a thing at the post office. Okay. I don't know. You could potentially win a million.

Okay. You could win... Stop! No, don't explain it to this. The last bit just says, can't wait for those prizes to start rolling in. Oh, fun! Do you know? I'm just telling you, there won't be any prizes.

Just heads up. But could be, it's the promise, the illusion. The illusion. Well done for investing in a premium bonds. It's not a bad place to put... She said. Well, you would know. Oh, yes.

Okay, before we start, Oh yes, this is very on brand for the bad habits. I have a present for Stevie. It's a birthday present, even though it's like a well over a year old. And it's nowhere near her birthday. My birthday is May 12th. Yes. And also, it's so bold for me to be delivering it live.

What if I hate it? Yeah, what if you hate it? But I think you'll appreciate the spirit of which she was bought. And also it's extremely on brand because it taps into my bad habit, which is drunk late. night online shopping. Oh wow. Get it out.

Did I buy it? Forget. Have it delivered. Think, what's that? And have no recollection. Wait. Yeah. No recollection.

I had no recollection of purchasing. Well, it's good that podcasts isn't a... Oh my God. Oh my God. Right. So I can describe this. This is probably the best present I've ever received.

This is true. So I have a tortoise called Dr. Alison Parker. I don't know if you've seen those things where you can get your dog on a portrait. She's got... The listeners are home. Did my tortoise look like Napoleon Bonaparte? It's a canvas of my tortoise's head on some army gear body. I'm going to speak to our producers to see if we could get a photo of this to come up on people's phones. listening. This is the, thank you so much. And that did deserve the pause. If you're on Instagram, it's the

crap. How can I do a podcast? I've seen that. Rakeish little bit of cherry tomato leaves. Like coming out the side. She's got a leaf coming out of the side. I'm mounting that right on the living room wall as people come in. I'm like such a sucker. You know when you like, Instagram

like sells you an algorithm and you're like, what idiots are buying this? Me. This kid. If I can see it, I'll buy it. They're called Crown and Poor and they keep showing with them. And I was like, yeah. I've seen them, but I haven't made the jump that it can be a tortoise. I've been like, well, that's just for dogs. Absolutely brilliant.

Right, okay, on that note, happy best. Thank you. Happy Christmas, maybe. Let's get into habits. Let's get in. So first, do you want to tell us your personality flaws? Oh, late won't get out of bed when told. That says a lot about your friends,

that they're just in your bedroom screaming you to get out of bed. But yeah, that was like from my family. Understood. Being like, we have to go now. And me being like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's a habit, I guess, yeah. Exactly. I was like, that's not a habit.

This is just a character assassination. Like, please, please stop. I suppose sometimes being late, because we did an episode, I think, as nobody panic, or the debrief podcast, about how not to be late. And it was all like, well, like, we would have been like, let's just not be late. Yeah. But then actually, it turns out there is a type of person that uses being late as a power play. So, like, people are nodding too much.

Yes, I use it as a power play often and I was like I can't understand that. We'll do it again I think the late, the power not to be late one because it was so interesting. There were seven different types of late person. Power play is one but I'm not the power play. I'm optimistic Oprah. Yes. And I just think I've got more time than I have. Yes.

And I don't. And I'm just sort of scatty in general. Oh yeah, yours is called the scatterbrain professor. Yeah, it's quite good. But yeah, so yeah, things that you just imagine it's just smoking and crack, but it's not. are drunk online shopping. Looking at Instagram right before I go to bed. Okay, that is bad.

So bad. I do that as well. Too much faf on the internet. Yeah. Being late and by if unsupervised and going on a long journey will buy the large family dairy milk popping candy. Oh yes. And eat it all in five minutes. And that's a habit. Yeah, that turns out that counts as a habit.

Well, the deeper you look into it, the more of it, well, we'll get into it, but that one, it turns out is a real, a proper one. Yeah, okay. What are yours? Well, I think I'd say, well, I hadn't really thought about it beyond like, because they used to smoke, so I was like, well, that's easy, I'll just say that. I used to smoke a lot, a lot, a lot, not that much, a bit. 20 a day? That's quite a lot, isn't it? Anyway, I thought it was cool.

Still do, still do. It was. It was quite cool. And then I realised it was, I just kept being the person in the smoking area being like, I just should quit. And no one wants to be with that person because they're also smoking. And also I just needed to stop. And then, yeah, so I stopped about in 2017, I had my last one.

And I haven't had one since. So I'm like, well, I guess I'm done now all my habit, but actually, no, I do have lots. I'm late. I also, is not, see, you've thrown this out of me because I didn't know that these people have habits. No, that's okay. Exactly. There's so many more things than you think. Is not being...

I was going to say, is eating eggs one? Obviously not. I'm just going... It's been quite hot. No, is... Is messing dates up constantly? It's a habit, yeah. It's a habit.

Because I don't put it in my diary ever. And I'm like, yes, I can do the sick. If it's something that you in any way negatively impacts your life and you would rather not do it. And you keep doing it. You keep doing it. It's a habit. Oh, yeah, that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also being a legend. Yeah. I found that very difficult to break. I'd like some help please I looked at why we form habits and it basically just says

that we form habits because our brains are lazy and are just trying to save effort and time all the time and we get trapped in this feedback loop which is like the thing that you're doing which I've got a million different names but it's like the three-step loop of habit forming oh hello sorry someone just walked in

don't do that sorry sorry sorry sorry Sorry, if you don't say, oh, that's one of my bad habits. I say, oh, hello, whenever anyone walks in. But yes, so firstly, there is a cue or a trigger which tells your brain to go into kind of automatic mode and which habit to use. So that's, I suppose, the moment,

if you're going to use cigarettes, which is the easiest one. It's the one that's the one that, like, oh, I'm going to have a cigarette. Then there's the routine, which can be a physical, mental or emotional one. And then there's the reward, which is what you feel that you get from the habit. So I guess any of it, the only thing, I suppose, like, being late doesn't quite fit to that. But things like sugar or the more kind of obvious ones fit into that way. You can clearly, your brain is using it as a crux to get you through stuff. So like I used to always be like, well, I need cigarettes.

Otherwise, how will I go to parties? That makes no sense to me now because I still go out of my house without a cigarette. But it would be like, well, what would I do to get out? How would I have a break? You could just go to the loon. You were in the mindset. Yeah, you could just go to the loaves. I just go to the toilet a lot now at parties.

Yeah. It's my party trick. Just going to the toilet. Just having a little break. Yeah, that is what smoking mostly was. The guy who invented that the three-step thing was guy called Charles Doug Duhigg. I feel like you've made that off.

Just thought, good to credit the scientist, didn't it? So for me, the dairy milk popping candy, the trigger is always at the train station, the train is late or I have to go on a long journey because I only ever buy it there. So then I'm like, oh, I'm stressed and I'm also hungry. And the right thing to do would be like, I should buy a lovely salad meal. Or a sandwich.

Or a sandwich or something lovely and healthy and plant-based. And, you know, but instead, my routine is always, oh, every time I feel like this, I buy the family size, something. And then I eat it. And the short-term reward is, oh, very, very sweet. And the long-term problems are large. So when you, it's so easy, it's not enough just to be like, well, just don't, just don't. Yeah, just don't.

Because you're like, your brain is in the, you're fighting yourself. Your brain is already in the habit of like, this is how I feel. And now this is this, these are the steps I take to do it. So like, ah, I feel socially awkward. And so your body is like, oh, the last time we felt like this, we said, shall we have a cigarette? To nobody and nobody. And you can, yeah. That was your, your brain like just checked.

back in the past and was like, last time, what did we do? And it helped last time. And it helped last time, so let's do that again. As well, when you're stressed, you also like, your brain is kind of focusing on the stress rather than what you can do to resolve it in that moment, i eat the train thing. You're like, I'm just, ah, I'll just get that.

It's like easy. It's the easy way, it's the easy route, rather than stopping to be like, do I want a bagel? Do I want to, now I've got to look at whether I want a soup. Do I want a hot thing or a cold thing? Whereas you just like, go for the, I'm presuming it's the cabriese dairy milk, Willy Wonka thing. Yes, it's the jelly popping. I find that delicious.

If anyone's interested, put your hands up if you find that nice. All right, it is a minority, six people, six people, but there's no judgment. I'm just interested to know what the split was. I think it's absolutely delicious. Great and good for you and long may you sail. No, I must stop. Oh yes, no, no, I know. Do stop. The hop in here. Yes, but hopefully it becomes as of a habit and more of like, oh, I would like some of that jelly bean chocolate. And then you go and buy one rather than make like, I'm stressed, jelly beans, like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, more of an active choice. I have more than one note to myself on my phone and picture of myself outside five guys looking sad,

which is to remind myself to not go into five guys just because it's raining. Like, I keep, I, honestly, honestly. You're like an animal. I know. If I'm supervised for more than 45 minutes and I'm lost, I'm probably in five guys. Like, I just, you've sent me so many photos in. So when I've sent you like things like, oh, if you watch the new Game of Thrones and you'll send me a photo of yourself alone in five guys.

Yeah. Yes, I'm watching up. My phone, like, why are you watching it in there? It's raining. It's raining. I was cold. I had an hour to fill before I needed to be somewhere. My brain was like, last time I went to five guys.

And so I'm like, oh, better do that again, you know? And even though I tell myself, please don't do that again. It makes you quite unwell. And I'm like, please stop. I'm just like, I'm better going. And I'm an animal. I'm an idiot. Oh, that's not like that.

I'm an idiot. I didn't mean like, you're an animal. No, no, I thought. It's like a Pavlovian response. Yes. Incidentally, there is an app on the internet. I really, really checked to see if it was a joke, but I think it's real.

They send you a wire cuff. It's called Pavlock. Okay. You set the thing that you would like to stop doing. When you do it, it electrocutes you. Isn't that mad? That sounds great. So look at me, people must be out there with a real problem.

Anyway, it's not enough just to be electrocuted every time. I just don't think that. I just feel like there are better ways. There are better ways because we respond. It's that sort of honey or stick, you know? Please elaborate enough theory. Test the code says honey or stick theory. I think it's called maybe carrot or stick.

Okay. Again, like what's the vibe? How do you make the donkey go forward with a carrot in front of it or a stick or a stick behind it? You better off with the carrot. Oh, wow. So it's not enough to electrocute yourself every time you do so. something you'll be so much better off there's this great quote by this guy who wrote a book on habits called brian mcgill again sounds like i made him up um no that is more than mcdiggie mcdiggie

yeah um mcdoo higgie sorry charles sorry charles it's a great name fantastic and best of love he does listen um that's why we do that to do a shout out um the secret to permanently breaking any bad habit is to love something greater than the habit okay so like positive yeah because that is the read the way that i quit smoking would was that I started, it's not, I also wanted to, and I think you have to get into the space where you want to. Lots of people are still at that space of being like, I want to, but I still do it, so you don't want to enough.

But I just loved being a non-smoker. I love the feeling of being like, oh, no, I don't smoke. And I was so like, well, the first time I said it, it was like, no, I don't smoke. Like, everyone was like, what's wrong with you? But it was great. And then I would just say it to everyone all the time. Happy birthday, Nana, I don't smoke.

Yeah. But yeah, it felt so good and I didn't want that feeling to be gone. That feeling was so much nicer. And one of the tips that I read is stop saying, they did a study and they found when they got loads of people to eat chocolate or something. I didn't really look into it.

But they found that if the person said, I can't eat chocolate, half of the people said, I can't eat chocolate, half people said I don't eat chocolate, and they monitored them over the course of like a month or so. And the people that said, I don't eat chocolate at like 60% less than the people that said I can't because I can't imply some sort of like oh I'm not allowed I'm not allowed I would but I can't it's got a sense of like

yearning whereas I don't just means like I've made a decision not to I don't and it sounds so powerful sorry I actually don't eat chocolate you're like wow why I want to know you yeah right yeah someone who's like I can't you'd like I don't want to know you that's how bad Sharon she can't Yeah, it implies a lot of shoulder work. Yeah, I can't. Whereas I don't, it's like, I don't. Right? I don't.

I don't. It's so powerful. And I know we wang on about that book, The Secret, constantly. You do? I've not read it. Okay. Neither have I. Wow, that is a real blow.

You are. For someone who goes on about it, left, right and centre. Yeah, and lean in. Again, not read it. Just guessing at what's in there. Sure, okay. Lean in.

No idea what's in it. Exactly that about how you use language of like I don't versus I can't. The secret is literally about being like when you have a phrase your things differently. So literally like I can't, I don't is a perfect. What is the secret? I thought the secret. Oh, I'm getting it confused with the rules. No, the rules where it's like how to bed a man.

I don't know. The secret. The secret is all about positive manifestation. Okay. And it's all about like putting your thoughts out into the universe. and if you can see it, you can do it. Okay. The secret is basically just like if you say it,

is that, it's like, I don't. It's like how powerful it feels to be able to say. Sort of like when people are trying, because when I was a, or I still am a journalist, but when I was like a proper journalist, and starting out, loads of people would like email me and be like, how can I get into journalism and their Twitter bio would be like,

trying to be a journalist. It was like, number one, say you're a journalist. And then that will help. You just say, I'm a writer. So the difference, even if you have never, what's that? Just another man came and sat down with a large lens.

Oh, right. I'm actually into it. I just let it brush over me, I didn't even, because I couldn't see. Can I, can I, do a small quote? Because I don't often, I don't often do quotes. Tess is always the one who's like, it reminds me of Gandhi. And I'm, I don't quite anything because I have to read it. All bad habits start slowly and gradually, and before you know it, no, I've popped it up.

No, no. Gandhi wouldn't have done this. Yeah, come on. All bad habits start slowly and gradually. And before you know you have the habit, the habit has you. That's very deep. And I feel like that's how it feels when you have, because you often, like you were saying,

you didn't realize you had these bad habits. And then, I thought it was a kooky thing I did. Being late, a bit of fun. Just a kooky girl, eating. Arriving late, E, E, E, FI, guys. She's horribly allergic to. Terribly allergic. We'll move on now to kind of why it's so hard to break a bad,

habit and how and how like because as well you may have habits that you're like well they're fine like i drink not to excess but i'm not my boyfriend doesn't drink and he doesn't drink because he's never drunk he's no no interest in it he doesn't he doesn't yeah but he doesn't yeah but he just says oh i don't drink yeah exactly i don't drink i can't i mustn't yeah that is that's very different energy isn't it's a totally different thing and even you might be an alcoholic who who literally can't You might say, or whatever, whatever the thing is that you personally aren't, like, yeah, drink a cup of wine in here, yeah. You might, might well be that.

There makes no... You might feel like it's like, it might feel like that energy, but you might just say, I don't. I don't, and then it's strong. Yeah, but I like drinking, as in like, for social occasions and things like that, I do, I will drink, not to excess. But that's like, there's definitely a habit, because if I'm going to a social occasion, I'm very socially awkward as a person and I need a glass of wine. otherwise I say weird things and I have to leave. I'm like, because I don't have a cigarette now, so I just have to stare.

When she needs a break, just check out. Just check out. I don't. What are you doing? Very weird at parties. But yeah, I've forgotten what I'm saying now because I'm so like... Sorry, sorry. He doesn't drink.

Yeah, no, but no, but it's just that. I suppose that is a habit that I need a glass. I basically do need a glass of wine to do anything. Like, not anything. This is an intervention. Okay. Okay. But I, that's, okay, well, regardless of whether it's an intervention or not, I'm healthy.

You don't have an unhealthy relationship. No, I know. I'm just saying even if people were, stop drinking. I'd be like, I'm happy with it. It's not impacting my life in a negative way. People aren't being like, I wish you'd stop. So I feel like that's the way to tell. Brian McGill, you don't love something more than you love drinking.

Exactly. Okay. Okay, now this is, I love nothing else other than drinking. And I'm happy, don't take it away from me. Thoughts? No, no. I just mean that that's, I think when you're, we all have habits that are, it's very difficult to go into the realm of like unhealthy and healthy because for what is healthy for one person isn't healthy for another person,

I don't have really a very addictive personality. So I can drink and I don't have to get drunk, I know lots of people who are my friends as well, they have to be very careful around alcohol because they struggle with it or they have to be careful on drugs, like whatever. Whereas I don't have that. So there are, and also things with food as well,

you can get into this thing about being like, oh, I'm so unhealthy because I don't eat clean and plant plants. Whereas actually that's fine. That's only healthy or unhealthy depending on how you feel as a person. So I just want to make that clear. So when we're going forward, we're not like plant-based as it's healthy,

but if you eat a cake, that's so unhealthy. Like it's not a talk. Live your life. Do whatever you like. It's impacting your life negatively. That is a bad habit. Bryant, you know, when you feel like you would love if the feeling of, for example, I need to love not being sick more than I love five guys.

You know? Yeah, we were actually, we were discussing. Tessa was describing to me what a peshwari nan is. It is relevant because I can't eat gluten. And so I was like, oh, I can't eat. I can't eat petroleum, which you can't, which you can't either. And then Tess was like, why do you think I'm so sick? I stared into my face.

And I think that's the thing which I would like, oh, don't eat the narn. Because I say, I can't, I can't eat that. I can't eat the narn. I can't eat the narn. I just like, I don't eat narn. Yeah. Even as it came up in my mouth, I thought, else'll lie. I'm eating one now.

As we speak. Popatoms aren't as good. It is just true. And whereas I can't stand feeling ill. So I found it really easy to not eat gluten because I prefer not to eat none than not shitting myself. Yeah. Is that the thing? Absolutely.

I don't know. I love not. And you also love sheating yourself more. Oh dear me. That's the dream. So that's what we're saying. It's like whatever your thing is, if you are like, oh, I really, really would like to not do this thing that is the consequence of this thing I do for reward. That's short term good, long term bad.

if you're fine with them, keep doing them. It's only if you're like, yeah, I would like to love that. Because everyone's got something like, oh, I keep doing that. Like, why do I keep doing that? My friend's actually got a weird one worse. She's not got disordered eating at all, but she is obsessed with, like, testing her limits in terms of weird diets. So, like, she's like, oh, I'll give it a go.

And you're like, okay. And then she's like, I'm so hungry. And you're like, why have I done this again? And it's not really for a weight loss thing. It's more of like to prove that she can. But I don't know who she's doing it for. So, I mean, she sounds quite, I need to have a chat with her, actually.

And she's here. There she is. Stand up. Oh, you can't because it's so weak. What? It's because of a weird diet. Oh, my God. No, it's fine.

The more that you're like, oh, I do this thing, but it's fine. You're like, it's not fine. Yes, I think there's a weird, there's a very, a thing when someone is quite scatty or often late, for example, It's like, oh, I'm late. That's because that's my thing

because I'm like a scatty crazy lady. Like, that's actually not acceptable. Like, being late can't, not, I'm not saying this to you. Being late can't be your personality, Tessa. We've both been through it and decided that we liked not dripping in sweat arriving at things 45 minutes late

more than we liked sleeping. Yes, yes, yes. Or lying very still in a towel, looking at the ceiling. That's an insight into your morning. Which is where. I was when I was late, you know? But like, I like being the woman who can say, like you've been like, I don't smoke,

was like a fucking buzz. Being like, oh, I got here 20 minutes early and I had a coffee and now I'm in control was a similar buzz. And then began to love that more than... Yes. So, which comes to the second point... No, no, no, sorry. Go.

The second point which I found is to basically come at it from a more curious perspective. It's like, let's see what happens rather than being like, oh, I'm going to stop doing the thing that I love because that's very negative. Whereas if it's like, I don't take smoking again, maybe it's being late, let's use that. So you just said it feels really great. Shall we do like using your phone too much? Using your phone? Yeah, using your phone.

I mean, that's difficult because I'm so addicted that I don't feel like I can talk in any way. Or I'm just, I'm talking to now. All the photos of me like this. No, late's a good on though because you can practice with a feeling of curiosity what it feels like to get there and sort of say quite smugly, I suppose. being like, oh, I've been here for 20 minutes. Like, that is, like, quite a nice feeling. Rather than going and being like, oh, I can't do that, that's not me. You kind of come in being like, so basically practice that in a sort of fun role-playing

game with yourself, you'll, then that opens the pathways to, not, no, it's not like a thing. No, I'm on board. It feels like you're not on board. But, like, then once you, what I mean is once you felt that feeling, that buzz, of going like, oh, yeah, I'm on time. It doesn't feel like, I mean, it feels like get a life if that's your buzz, but fine. then you felt that feeling that's that's my buzz well then it's a positive feeling so then

then and then that you are more likely to stick to that you're more likely to then once you've experienced it once you've got a taste of that high you're not going back yeah so it shouldn't ever again this carrot and stick thing it should always be like we're chasing that carrot we're not hitting you're not hitting it it's not like a stevie you need to be on your phone less it's not like it's like how nice is it to not be on exactly it's not you being like oh I'm got my phone oh bloody hell I'm my phone It's very accurate. That is.

It's a sort of floppy arm going on. I'll get my phone back. Yeah. Actually, phone is a good one. Yeah, instead, which is like, so rather it being that negative, like, I'm not taking my phone about it, it should be like, oh, isn't it nice?

I feel great. I've had a good sleep. I didn't go on my phone until 2 a.m. And I spoke like an addict then because, I don't know if you noticed. But I was like, yeah, let's not talk about that because I'm actually really, actually that is what I should be talking about

because that's my real problem is that I'm glued to my phone. So actually what is nice is maybe if I should start not take it like putting it away at social occasions or putting it away at dinner or putting away in the evening and then going god that one really focusing on how nice it was not to be looking at it rather than be like oh i haven't looked at it was like now i can finally be on it rather than like i can get it back i did an hour without it like i can have it back it's like

hey what was the what was the good feeling yeah that's terrifying isn't it equally like equally like sort of writing down when you're most likely to be on your phone at times when you would rather ideally not to be on your phone evening like why I don't know if anyone else I can't obviously it's not me it's stupid to say it's me like from like five onwards there is nothing that comes to your phone that I need to really be looking at and it's like well that's just admin that's fine

I don't know why I'm on it beyond like out of office hours like yeah and then unfortunately what you have to do is the three-step thing and be like why do I go on it like what is my love for love so is it like for love yeah no I just said that Okay, I'm inquiring mind and I like to Google things. You know, like, I can't think of anything now. Yeah. So that's the thing.

It's a hard thing to do. So for me, in the train station being like, I'm all, it's raining, I'm going to five guys, it's like I'm cold, I'm hungry, nobody's near me. No. I'm going to get some short term sugar. And so there I'm like, okay, that's a real like, I understand why I've done it. And if I can identify why, I can put some things in place to be like, hey, champ, you know what's going to happen when you've got that hour free this afternoon? You're going to go to five guys.

Yes, you have a salad. You practice it. I read something. Don't start crying on the street again, you know. Going, no, no. It's like walking to five. Yeah, that's literally. Don't, don't.

Honestly, I've walked into five guys, soaking wet and having a little cry and gone, I shouldn't be here. to the end. Mate, that is so much bleaker, man. It's in quite a light way. Like, I'm not, oh, fun. It's fun, it's fun. You know, yeah, I think it's like, this is a short-term solution.

And I am just, you know, you are like, oh, have something to eat that. And it does fix it. And also, you know, the decision making of like, oh, now, what shall I eat? What do I want? What should I do? And you just be like, five guys, dumb.

Yeah. So I'm like, hey, be ready. You're not to use the word trigger, which I think has been so. monopolized in a, by like, in a bad way, and it's sort of like, you know, you see so many shows by men, stand-up show, it's called like, triggered. You're like, shut up. It just meant, like, guidance warning or whatever. Yeah. I think it's a helpful word. Yeah. So if you are like, oh, my triggers are, you know, X, Y, Z, then you're like, okay, this is going to be a day

full with them. Let's prepare, you know? And I think with there's a sliding scale, phones are the most difficult because the triggers are every minute. Every minute of every day. So I just checked what I last googled and it was when were scarecrows invented? No, it wasn't. When were they? I didn't, I can't remember because my attention to man and brain is a car. Let's just do a little bit of mystery work. What caused you to Google that?

I genuinely caught. It was today, oh my God, I was at lunch and I zoned out and thought, when was scarecrows invented? That's lit, yes. There was no conversation. My boyfriend. He'd gone to the loo. Right, there we go.

No, I lied to make it better. He didn't. He was just sat there. And I googled. And I didn't even join him in. I didn't be like, I'm just Googling. I was like, I just quietly Google that. Keep that one to myself.

You didn't even share the scare the scarecrow? I think he was eating or something. Well, something. I don't want your judgment. I've got a problem. This is such a space space. I will, like, that. And the worst thing is, if that's what I'm doing when I'm, like, interacting with people,

I don't sleep very well. So I'll go to sleep like four in the morning. It's I have, like, four hours of, it's literally just that. It's me being like, I don't know, what does DNA stand for? And then, like, who invented birds? And, like, does DNA? And crows have bigger beaks than ravens. Like, it's that.

Do they? I don't know. What does DNA stand for? I don't know. Should I Google it? No. Okay. That's the thing, because you're just looking them up.

You aren't finding out. the answers. I think it's bigger with the phone thing, it's bigger. It's more complex than the normal habit forming situation because they are anything, work, emails, organizing how to meet somebody constantly you are able to go, because what happens

to me is I'll be like, I'm not going to look at my phone for the day, someone will WhatsApp me about something I need to look at and I'll be like, well, I'm on it now, so I'll Google scare growth. Where does hair come from? Is it in your brain or is it between the bone and the skin? I don't know. You know. Interesting shit.

And then I'm in, and then that is the end. So I think what I have to do is do broad stroke things, which are like, my triggers are clearly everything. Yeah. So I need to be like, well, from 5pm onwards, any work stuff, I can do the next day. And that's their problem. If they're like people messaging me at half nine being like,

what have you replied to my email? It's like, fuck off. It's the evening. So then I can do it the next morning. May I put something in place for you? If you like. air game. You don't have to do it. Oh, no, of course not. I think before you start

the like, I just won't look at my phone after 5pm and do it sort of gold, yeah, see, how do you feel? Oh, really great. No, not. I've hunched over and I've got sort of claws. Yeah, so that's why I think it's not enough just to be like, well, just don't. Just put it in the drawer. I didn't even realize I was hunching over and doing the claws. That's terrifying.

So that's why I'm saying, it's like, you can't just begin one day. You can't just begin fixing a habit and be like, well, just don't. Just don't do. And then forcing yourself. Otherwise our podcast wouldn't exist. Exactly. I'm like, I'm going to make a habit, don't do it. Good night.

Good night. Yeah. So, so, so. And we're like, fucking out, why don't I have that before? Yeah. Yeah. Everything is so much more complicated. Yeah.

So like you, so a week, so do it next week, but this week coming, every time you are going to have a, where are the square, where are the square, where are the square, where do clouds go? Where are, I want you to keep, because you've got a notebook with you that you keep with you all the time. I do. I do. Cheers.

Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. So when you have a big thought, an idea or a curiosity about the world, you can Google it, but before you Google it, I want you to write it down in your notebook.

As in like 6pm, wondered where clouds go. Yeah, wondered where clouds go. Okay. Yeah, and you can then look it up. Yeah? But you've got to write down the thing. So then I can see, that'll be a lot, a big old notebook.

Big old notebook. And you'll look and be like, oh wow, look at all these. I'm an addict. Yeah. Look at all this stuff I'm thinking. And then be like, okay, what, Well, what are the times? Because maybe it's always between like 2pm and 4.30.

Having these great ideas. Or like at 6pm, I'm really thinking about clouds. You know, like what's... And then try and be like, what was happening right before that? I was looking at the sky. That made me think, you know, that made me think this. Okay. And then if you know that like you don't mind being on your phone because it's fun.

Like, it's a lot of fun. A lot of fun. But if you're like, I would rather not do it at dinner. Always. Then that's the time to be like, okay, what am I... Put that in place. Let's lock it in my bag. Let's try and, you know.

to someone else and say, don't give it to me. Don't give it to me. And then again, the brain with its like immediate trigger routine reward system where it's like, this is how we felt last time and we did this and it. And it felt better. That pathway is like getting deeper and deeper, isn't it? So you can start to kind of. Yeah, we're really, really, really short term, which is why none of us have a pension.

That hits so hard. Because we're like, why would I? Like, no, actually, people do have pensions if you've got actual jobs. We're just speaking on it. It's self-employed. Yeah, yeah. Like you even... I have no pension.

they've done it for you on purpose, you're still like, give it, give it back. Like, give it back. Have you ever been in long term, sorry, have you ever been in long term employment? Right, there we go. Hi then you feel you'd say give it back but you don't, you're just like, great, it's there. But you don't, of course you don't actually go up to your boss in HR and be like, can't have my pension, you just, but that is the feeling of like, oh, it's gone in my pension. Yes, I see. I'm not going to get that for ages, you know. So that is how we all are. Yeah. Which is why, so you have your, you have your, instinct, be like, I want this thing.

Then you're like, hey, remember, we've been working on that special. No, no phone, no biting the nails, no cigarettes, no smoke, no whatever it is we're not doing. Yeah. And then try and just breathe through it for a hot minute. And then you'll be so much stronger 60 seconds later than you were... And remember what you get when you don't do that thing. Remember how good the high of being like, I'm a non-smoker or obviously insert your own thing.

If that's not relevant to you, that won't help. But like, yeah, insert your own kind of joyous... And say out loud, I don't, I don't, I don't five guys. I don't do it. I don't buy that. You think five guys as a verb is good, though? Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, uh, five G.

Yeah, also we shouldn't be using 5G if that's the other thing. Should we not? No, it's not the time. No, it's not the time. That was another thing that I googled the other night was like, why it's 5G networks bad. No, quite bad. No, so stop it.

I'm not doing it out. I'm not doing it out. I'm not doing it out. I'm not looking at the next point. Okay, but so that my thing, if you can last for 60 seconds between wanting the thing and even if you didn't even if you still do it but you gave yourself that much space and keep saying like I don't I don't I don't you've given your brain more and more time to build a different pathway yeah so in the future when you

have that instinct like now when you when you don't ever have the instinct to have a cigarette no or if you do you're still like occasionally but it's like it's so mean like have a cigarette's like perhaps you perhaps you could but maybe but maybe I'm like no and it's like yeah it's gone it's gone so the more that you give yourself those 60 seconds the closer you you get to that point where the instinct just, mu-mo-mo-mo-mo-mo-mo-mo and it's also helpful to visualise that. Absolutely.

Like in The Little Mermaid, I use this reference so much, and everyone always looks to me blankly. In Little Mermaid, when she turns the people into like, whee-wee-wee- and they're all in the tunnel? No. Okay, that's a habit that you've conquered. You've got loads of them in your little tunnel, all going, meh-h-h.

I get so upset thinking about them that I can't use that as a visual. Well, in that, okay, in the film they are trapped, like, monoc. They're the souls of Mur people. Yes. And they're trapped in her garden for eternity. No, thank you. But then they are all rescued.

Yeah. And in this, yeah, the analogy requires you to let go of that knowledge, but I know you can't. I can't. I can't. I'm too deep. Right. And my final point is, sort of, it is kind of track up to something you said, but having an, they call it an if then plan, which is basically when you know that you're entering

into a triggering environment. So let's put the phone thing away because that is too much. Parties, social anxiety, me smoking, being late, which is. basically every time you get an appointment. Fighting your nails, big day at work coming up. Yeah, and you're like, oh, I tend to do it then, which you've identified because you've written it down in your notebook, perhaps. Even if you haven't, you'll probably know it in your brain. To be kind to yourself and not expect your brain to be able to cope with it in the moment every time, because that's quite a lot for your brain to have to cope with, to go, okay, if this happens, then I will

say this, do this. So when it does happen, you have something, your brain, you've already implanted a very light pathway in your brain that it's kind of anticipating the thing and that's like a little, it's very obvious but it's actually more working on your neural pathways, and it's a little psychological trick. Someone a big fan of neural pathways

they always recommended oranges, peeling an orange for people when your instinct to smoke. I can't imagine that would have helped me much. I don't think it's very helpful but I understand the thought process behind it which is that if then I want a cigarette, I have an orange and so your brain is building a new pathway

and making you an orange addict you know, because they're like option. Try it. I don't know if I'm... But the idea is there of like always have a different then. A different thing, yeah. Or a thing, yes. But there is one, I don't know if it's just smoking,

I think it may be it is. I don't know, if you're addicted to a thing, replacing that thing with something else often just makes you miss the original thing. So you have to learn to... That's why vaping often makes people smoke again. Sorry for anyone votes, but you probably great

but I found it really difficult to not but yeah you have to just you have to focus on the positivity and you have to focus on that positive thing more than I'll have an orange because I want a cigarette because that would not have swung in 2012 right okay no I understand I just smoked the orange

just setting fire to peel alone in my room anyway what did you do when you wanted it well this is the thing I quit I don't essentially I quit at the the point when I just couldn't stand being a whiny smoker about how much I wanted to quit. So I couldn't, I could, I, it's exactly that thing.

I couldn't stand that more than I wanted to, like, I didn't, it was just, it was a decision. And it was like a, actually just fuck this. Like, I'm so bored of smoking and being that person all the time. And that, and I just tried to focus. Also, I read this great book, which is a very old book and it's, it's dated terribly, but it's called the easy way to stop smoking by Dr. Alan Carr, not a comedian. And that was very helpful. So if you are listening being like, smoking is my thing, that kind of does help.

It is quite shit, the book, but like it also weirdly like hypnotises you into focusing on the positives. It really helped you. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. It changed my life. And I didn't have to smoke one orange. Two last things before the end. Of course. One is that, especially if it's a health thing, that it might have moments of getting slightly worse before it gets better.

Okay. Especially if it's like a health thing that you're trying to kick. Yeah, if people eat a lot of things. sugar and they try and like get rid of a bit of sugar even just a bit you get or caffeine that's because I quit caffeine in 2015 I'm a lot of fun and um all my hoot um and uh and I got terrible headaches for like a week and then but then I read that because I was Googling all the time because I was a different and I read that that was normal so I just basically took a price so if you yeah if you if you or somebody who is just like low level unwell all the time but it's sort of manageable

yeah if that's like caffeine dairy whatever it is, your personal thing is that your body's like, please, no more. Can you stop? Just a bit. But like, you've worked out how to get around it and you know, so you're like, just here. Which is just being ill? Yeah. Then you get, which way should be more healthy?

Up or down? Up, I guess. Up to heaven. Sure. So then you quit it and so you feel much better and you're like, oh my God, this feels fantastic. And then if you have, if you fall off the wagon or you have a small bit or you do a thing, you're going to feel way worse.

Yeah, like you've got right to the, because you're immune. You were like, you were trotting along like, yeah, it's not bad, but it's doable. And then you felt what it was like to be good, and then your body doesn't know what to do with it when it comes in the next time. Yeah, so it panics even more. And also that is psychologically so difficult because you think that if you've quit a habit, you should just quit a habit, you should just quit a habit, you should just quit. And then that's it. But actually, it will be, if you realize that from the start, that it would be like, because I tried to quit smoking from like 2015. I had two years of just basically being like, I can't smoke.

And then I would just get drunk and smoke everything that I could see. And then everyone was like, what is wrong with that woman? And then, yeah, that's terrible. But if I'd have realized that that was just me slowly, you remember it? Yeah, I do. That's like you that time. Tessa, get in my mouth! But no, it's like this.

Like, it goes up, but as long as you're slowly improving, you will always. They also say this with people who are like recovering from something. If you're recovering from an eating disorder, they say this where it's like, it will, it's not a straight line. Like you will, so if you have, like, bulimia or something, and you're doing really well, you may have, it may happen again. And then you go, oh, well, what was the fucking point?

Well, I might as well just be, like, just go back to it. And you can, there's a lot of self-loathing, I think, there. Whereas if you realise that you are, it doesn't mean you've fallen off the wagon. It just means you've, like, changed seats on the wagon. Yeah. Perhaps.

Absolutely. And you, you can just continue exactly where you left off. It doesn't mean that you failed. And I think that's, the sort of main psychological thing to focus on when you're breaking bad habits. I feel like it's not just going to be like, oh, I'm done, great. Like it will take time. Yeah. And you have to be kind to yourself.

Yeah. Especially something in your body that like, especially if you try to not eat something that makes you sick and then you get sick from something else. It's a very like, oh, fuck I'm fucking like. Like you and the cashew nuts. Oh, yes. That's just personal story. She has some cashew nuts. She was ill. It will be, yeah, it will be no surprise to anybody

that I can't cook. And I really, I have had various like real kicks of being like, come on, come on, come on, I want, I want, I crave delicious Lella's life so badly, I cannot tell you. And I just want, listen, this is my dream. A man called Miguel lives with me. And every day I... Partner or just like...

Oh gosh, we have had sex one time, but it was very platonic. And he... Miguel. I rise. Miguel says, good morning, I've made you. He's been sat there the whole evening staring at you. Ready. Yeah.

He's just pottering around the kitchen. The sun's coming in. He says, I've made you a smooth. and here's your Bircham Musley and here's this and here's your avocado. He's a cook, he's your chef. Sorry, he's a chef. Right, yes, okay. Sorry, Miguel is a chef, he's my personal chef.

Love that. And he comes with me everywhere. So I never have to have, I don't care about food and I know, I love it, obviously, but I'm not a, I don't like to cook, I don't have a foodie, so I just want somebody else to take all that decision away from me and please give me things that will make me healthy and well and stop me, you know, have to... Eating Peshireen, I and five guys. Because I wouldn't, if I was full and I'd had a love to,

healthy thing from a get where's Miguel so I'd say don't wait for Miguel no your own Miguel be be be the Miguel inside you in an attempt to in the attempt to be in an attempt to be my own Miguel yeah I was like oh cashews deliciously out of always whanging on about cashies fucking is she's like any recipe starts with just blend a few so blessed just that you've soaked for three days you know I So I went to Liddle and I bought and I went to get some cashews ready to soak and blend. While I was there. So can blend the cashews.

So can blend. While I was there, there was like, so instead I bought some like salted salt and black pepper cashews a kilo. And it said ready to eat. So I was like, fantastic. I don't even have to soak and blend. I'll just eat them. So I ate. A kilo.

Okay, I didn't know you didn't eat that much. Yeah. Okay. I thought you had like a few cashews. No, I was like, well, these are good for you. So I ate them all. I had absolutely chronic food poisoning. Yeah, I remember.

Yeah. Really bad. It was real bad. Because I don't, you know, I don't, I'm very lazy and greedy. I'm a greedy girl. Grady. Okay. There's so much to unpack.

So I need to know my if-thens, which are, if I am hungry, then I will just eat for cashews. No! So I need to be my own Miguel. Yeah, so if you are hungry, so, Tessa, if you are hungry, it's raining. Yes. Miguel is no more. He's died. No, Miguel's no more.

What are you going to do? Salad. Yum, yum, yum. Yes. Now, I think that's not specific enough. I don't even want to get myself to the position where I'm having a what should I do now, moment. I want to have already been full. I want to be a woman with almonds in my bag.

Please. Okay. That's fine. That is so doable. Just put almonds in your bag. Yeah? I mean, I don't want to say I'm gandy, but yeah. Put your bloody phone down.

I will. It's all easy from the outside. No, but you can put almonds in your bag. And then, I think the one thing you should do is not say, oh, I want salad to be like, right, have chains in your head, not chains. Like, a good chain. Like, as in, for me, I know.

like Wagamama, Wahaka, Pratt, those things are really good. If you're listening outside of London, they're everywhere in London. Like, I know that if I don't know, if I'm like panicking because I'm vegan and I don't know what to have, and everyone's like, stop all the vegans taking a long time to decide where we want to go. I'm always like, what's like, so I know I can say, wakama, wahaka. And then if people say, no, I'm lost and I leave. Right. Because I don't know what to do.

Yeah. Have the things in your brain where you're like, okay, where's my nearest this, this, this, this. Not because at the moment, you've only got five guys. and that is not acceptable. No. For you. No. Gastronomically.

Yes. Okay, so we are running out of time. So, um, uh, I don't know. Now, did that help? Certainly helped us specifically. I feel like, look, I feel like... I really hope that whatever your personal thing is, especially if you're thinking, I don't have...

Like, honestly, today I was like, I don't have any of the classics, but I do. Ask your friends what your bad habit is. And really think of the things that you're like, oh, it would be better. it would be better if I didn't do that. Yes. And then the main things are,

use words like, I don't rather than I can't. It's not a straight line. You're going to fall off the wagon and that doesn't mean you should then just be like, well, fuck it, that's the end of that then. Be aware of your three point, your triggers and then what your routine, your reward. Be aware of what it is that causes you to fall off the wagon.

Absolutely. Oh, my goodness. Get a friend. Find one. Please. That's it. That's just please. Get more friends.

tell people you are trying to break this habit. Yes. Most people are aware of you and people check in with each other and say like, how did it go this week? And if you have a friend who is trying to quit something, message them very specific questions about it so they can't lie. So don't just say like, oh, how's it going? It's very specific to you. Ha ha ha. So like, don't just say, oh, how's it going?

And you can be like, oh, it was great. Thank you for asking. Be like, did you eat? Did you eat? A ton of cush. What did you eat today? Yes. So I found this with my, I had a running coach to try and learn to run because I have one of my legs is backwards, basically.

Not the time. But I had a running coach and by the sort of 10 weeks in, we did it once a week and she gave me these things I was supposed to do in my own time. Obviously I didn't do them because I'm greedy and lazy. But then, so six weeks in, it became genuinely harder to not to do them. to make up where I'd been on a run. Then it was just, go on a run. Oh, you were fully making them up. Oh, yeah, I was just lying.

So she'd be like, where'd you be? And I'd be like, the canal. Like I just was saying stuff, you know? So she, you know, so the golf course. Yeah, the golf course. So if you have somebody who checks in on you and constantly, you know, and you have to be specific with it.

Yeah. It will become genuinely easier to just go on the run rather than have to make it up. Make it up. Yeah. Constantly asking you what you did. And focus on the positives as well. And also like I...

No, no, please. I wondered if maybe her... She suspects what? No, I was... No, I was... I'm right out of time. Yeah, yeah. No, fine, come on.

Go on. Let's do it. Just one minute. And then I suspected that if I was also a trainer, I would be like, this week you're supposed to be running six kilometres. This week it's eight. This week it's 10. And I suspect that you understand that people are maybe doing slightly less than they are told.

But at least they are doing it. Yes. So if I'm supposed to have run 10, but I've only run six, but I say I've run 10. Like, at least I've still run six kilometres. Yeah, that's so good. So I don't beat yourself up. But if you fall off the wagon,

at least you didn't fall off the wagon the day before. Like, that's so good. You're like, oh shit, I didn't run 10. I only run six. Like, that's way better than zero. Yes, you know? You have to focus on the positive feeling that not doing that thing brings you

and not beat yourself up. Be very kind to yourself as you're kind of learning how to break the habit because your brain is basically, you're basically fighting against your brain the whole time. Yeah, that's quite hard. It's really hard. But totally doable.

That all that's about like 21 days and it takes to break a habit. That's, that's Beyonce, but she's a liar, as we all know. She's a terrible liar. But also, yeah, that's all kind of just to help you get to a place. It's not actual science in terms of 21 days. It's nice between 20 and 21. It's nice to hold on to the 21 days. Yeah, it's a good A.

Because that feels achievable. It feels an aim. That's like we're doing 21. Because then if you're 10 days in, you're like, shit, we're only 11 away from the finish line. But then that promotes the idea that. there's a finish line. So then you go back, it's like that dry September,

where that's not even a thing. Whatever, the month is you're not supposed to drink. I can't remember. You certainly can't. I'm a drinker. I'm a drinker. But yeah, I find that very, obviously I don't like doing that.

But I also find that people that do do it, then there's like the month after, they're like, fucking on one. It's like, what was the point? But even if you just did it for a month, that's still good, but I think better to practice it achievably, if you want, literally want to quit drinking,

that's just for fun people being like maybe I just have a sober month if you need to quit drinking then that's obviously not the way to go just to do it for one month and then I think then obviously you have to look at kind of I mean we've just sort of

whacked in alcoholism with like one minute to go I'm just gonna solve it for you and then we'll stop no I'm just gonna like stop that entire thing and just be like I think you're right it has to be achievable and small steps rather than being like I'll just stop

we're so much more awake to it like these days these days but we were constantly sold this like five days to lose a stone. Yeah. Quit this in an afternoon. Blah, blah, blah. It's all rubbish. She's all rubbish.

You'd have to do the thing that's best. Yeah, you've said it's going to take a long time. So that was our first one of the season. Oh, I for one, thank you so much for being here. I feel genuinely really ready. I'm so glad you're not going to go into five guys anymore and I'm not going to look at my phone ever again. Who wants to come?

I don't know how I'm going to get home. Who wants to go for an Oreo milkshake? Or live. Um... Oh, there is one here. There's a five guys literally within a mile. I know. Okay.

Sponsored by five guys today, actually. Thanks, thanks to those guys. My five best friends. Please do follow us at NobodyPonick. Nobody Podic. At Nobody Panic pod. Email us if you have any suggestions. This was one that quite a few people suggested, so we did it.

We are going through some more of your suggestions through our inbox. nobody to panic podcast at gmail.com. Follow me at Stevie M. The S's of 5. At Tessa Coates. Sure, that's Tessa. And yeah, see you next week. And thank you so much to London Podcast Festival for having us.

And thank you to yourselves. Give yourself a round of applause. You've been amazing. Thank you so much. Bye.