Nobody Panic - How to Break Up with Fast Fashion – with Lauren Bravo

Episode Date: October 1, 2019

Stevie and Tessa find out how bad fast fashion actually is, and what they can do to help combat the problem, from Lauren Bravo, author of the upcoming book How To Break Up With Fast Fashion. It’s an important listen and let’s just say they didn’t not have to eat brownies throughout, just to keep morale up. Lauren's book, How To Break Up With Fast Fashion, is published in January 2020. Pre-order it here.Produced and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. With me, Stevie. And me, Tessa, and today we have a cool guest.

It's Lauren Bravo. Hello, Lauren Bravo, owner of the coolest name in town, and not one but two books. Am I right? You are right. Hello. Hello. Not on the cool name thing, that sounds braggie. It's because, like, this is like Johnny Bravo, you know?

Yeah, the coolest guy in town. People do call my brother that actually. Is his name Jonathan Bravo? No. Okay, sure. But today's episode is all about how to break up with fast fashion Because it's something that I think I don't know, you know that you should

And then you don't, for example, that's what I'm like And I try really hard and my sister's really good at it And I'm really bad at it And you've written a book on it I have, I have it's called How to Break Up with Fast Fashion Great Which suggests that I have all the answers Yes

I'm not sure I do I think you've had sex with fast fashion Absolutely, yeah it was a beautiful summer It turned toxic. Like Danny and Sandy at the end of the summer. But you and Zara. It was best for them not to get married, you know? Yeah.

Did they? I imagine when they just floated up into the air. In the car. The moral of that story was if you want someone to love you, take up smoking and sew yourself into your trousers. It's such a bad film. It's a bad film. It's also a good film.

Sorry, it's a perfect film with a very bad moral core. I believe Greece 2 to be the superior film. It's not only superior to that film, but to every other film ever made. I've never seen it. It's the greatest film. But Tessa was, like, sang a lot of the songs. Yeah, Cool Rider. Because it's a gender flip as well.

So it's the guy that has to like change his whole personality to win the girl. So that's fine. What a shame that that wasn't the successful one. The successful was like, no, but we do like it when the girl does it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We do prefer that one. Yeah. It's a shame.

I really like it when Sandy closes the door on Danny's penis in the car and the drive-thru. And he goes, oh, yeah. I'm only just now you're saying it, realizing that's what happened. Oh, really? I just think he was just having a paroxysm of love. I just thought he was getting squashed. No, his whole body. His balls were.

I didn't realize it was the balls. I didn't fast forward through that whole bit of the drive. No, the stranded at the drive-thru. You'd fast-forward it? Yeah, so boring. But the dancing hot dogs on the screen behind him. I didn't care for it. Oh, wow. I did a lot of fast-forwarding.

My parents fast-forward all the sex bits. So when Rizzo? No. Yeah, Rizzo and Kinniki. I had no idea why she was singing that song at the end about being sad because it was like, well, I didn't see any of the plot point. No. So I was just like, I guess she's a bit sad today.

And that was genuinely what I found until I was like, until I was at university, we watched it again. I was like, oh my God, we can watch the bits. Oh, wow. And then the whole plot came together. Made sense. It's because we were all like seven, so you didn't know what he was saying when he was like, a hickie from Kinnikki's kind of cool. Oh, like a hallmark card.

It's fair enough to send the very best. It makes no sense as a sentence. And the condom in the wallet, his 25 cent insurance policy. It broke. It's my 20. Yeah. And I was like, oh, he's got an insurance policy in his wallet. Absolutely.

Sounds legit. He's a safe driver. Adult and things. What's your adult thing this week? Oh, mine is very on brand for the topic. Mine is that I saw a lady in a dress. Oh, wow. It was a friend, and I said, I love your dress.

And she said, thank you. And it's from a brand called Dancing Leopard. Oh, yes. Are you going to say it's bad? I'm not going to say anything. Okay. Found the dress online. I was going to buy it.

Then, when on eBay, looked it up, found the dress. Oh, that's good. Six pounds. Yes. Bit on it once. Now it's mine, baby. Oh wow, that's great. It's on its way to me, the highest bidder.

So I felt very smug, both financially and eco-wise. Yeah, love it. I done. Yeah, and then another extra restaurant didn't have to get made. I bought one nice and cheap. Oh, yes. So that's how I, that's my adult thing. Well done.

Well done. What's your adult thing? Mine is that I wanted to get a takeaway curry last night. For no other reason I couldn't be bothered to cook. Then I cooked a curry. Oh, wow. I did use the paste, you know, the kind of the little curry paste that you get in the jars. Did you have the paste already in the house?

Oh yes. That's a huge deal. That's fine. Lauren, what is yours? Do you have one? Yeah, mine's really gross. I cleaned... I shaned myself. I cleaned out the drawer of my washing machine, which is...

Okay, right, so I've only recently discovered that washing machines need cleaning. I didn't know. I thought they were self-cleaning like a vagina. Turns out... Well, they're full cleaning, aren't they? They're four cleaning. It's literally called a washing machine. And they look like vaginas, guys?

No? Forgive me not knowing this. But I tweeted. about it a little while ago and a few people were like genuinely disgusted by the fact that I had never cleaned my washing machine a machine for washing. Which bit do you clean? So we moved into New Flat last year and inherited a washing machine and it's quite old and quite gross. And I noticed that if we left our clothes in the washing machine for longer than about three minutes after the cycle had finished, they would really stink. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just thought that that was part of you.

I'm serious, I thought. Me too. No. And then I was talking about it. Keep you on your toes so that you get them out quick. Exactly. Thanks, boss. Yeah. I'm like, okay, understood. I guess this is just my punishment for tardiness. I will smell all day.

Yeah, so I'd been happily going on with that for years. And then I tweeted about the phenomenon of the washing machine smell. And someone very sweetly and politely was like, I think you just need to clean your washing machine. Oh, my God. So what do you do? Which bit? So I'm only kind of, this is my first step in the process.

I'm not really finished yet. But what I did was I noticed that the drawer where you put in the washing liquid had got a bit mouldy. Like there's a bit of black in it. So I thought, that's not great. So I thought I know what I'm going to get the tray out and I will clean it and won't that be good. And then I did take the tray out.

And inside, so the slot that the tray fits into, was completely black. Oh, wow. It was so disgusting. Guys, take the trays out of your washing the tree. Yeah, I'm honestly, I had no idea. It was really disgusting. And I say it's a first step in the process

because, like, it's a multiple job, job, you know? Yeah. So I squirted a load of anti-back inside it, gave it as good a scrub as I could do, got a bit bored, what popped it back in again. But I'm, I plan to continue. Have you seen any difference in your clothes? Oh, well. In the smell. Yeah, this smell's fine. Okay. This jumper is fine.

Yeah. And I think the other thing I need to do, which your friend told me about, is buy a washing machine cleaner. You get like a bottle of liquid. But you do an empty cycle with that in your washing machine. Like with a dishwasher. Like with a dishwasher. Another thing I thought was self-cleaning. Being an adult is just cleaning things you didn't think you ought to clean. I think that is one of this. Isn't that so true?

Anyway, on a more like positive non-cleaning note, fast fashion, we did this episode a few months ago, which was about sort of the environment in general, and we're like touched upon it. But the moment we started researching about it, we started to panic and sort of backed off. Way, way, way back, during the debrief, we also did a whole one about fashion.

And equally, it was very, very stressful. We had to do like animal facts halfway through because I started to have essentially a panic attack. Yeah, too much. So I haven't done any research into the actual fast fashion thing because I was frightened to know. But you've obviously done loads of research. So what, like how bad is it?

Really bad. Cool. So could you present the badness in the lightest way possible? So there's a page in my book which is called 10 stats to pay attention to. Great. Because I think, well, this is the trouble and I'm exactly the same that you get so overwhelmed.

The moment you start to kind of dip a toe into learning about this stuff, you get so overwhelmed with the awfulness of it all, and then you think, well, I am one person, what can I do? Chop my toe off. Exactly. And I mean, the main thing that I discovered pretty quickly as soon as I started researching the book was that there are no clear, easy solutions.

Right, okay. For every answer, there is a kind of equal and opposing argument that makes it quite hard. So I think people want sort of one easy solution. They want to be told, do this thing, don't do that thing, everyone's fine. And, yeah, annoyingly, it's not quite as simple as that. But there are loads of great things we can do.

So the stats that really kind of open my eyes and these are coming out all the time by the way So the frustrating thing about writing a book like this Is that as soon as you think it's done And you've like crossed the last tea And dotted the last eye Someone else will do a study And then everything's wrong again

So textile production produces An estimated 1.2 billion tonnes of CO2 per year Which is more than international flights And maritime shipping combined Oh my God So we know all about flying on flights Because I thought I'd got it down And I was like, don't fly.

I mean, apparently don't have a baby and go vegan. They're like the three things. And I was like, great. Well, at least I know. Now my world's overturned. So also, basically, fast fashion ships should be above the flying thing. Kind of. I mean, do you know what?

Like, I'm not enough of an expert to even be able to sort of make a hierarchy. Of course, but it's up there. It's up there. It's really up there. I think you can be and I think you should back yourself. Thank you. I know. I've had a lot of conversations with my editor during this process

about my imposter syndrome. Yes. And lots of me kind of going, but I don't know enough. Yeah, you know so much more than everyone else. Yeah, you know so much more than that. Thank you guys. Thank you.

So there were some more, some figures actually that Oxfam released last week along these lines as well that were quite shocking. So the clothes that we buy in the UK per minute produce more carbon emissions than driving a car around the whole world six times. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, guys.

No, it's fine. This is my other fear with the book is that no one's been speak to me again. This is why you brought. was brownies. Lauren brought us brownies, vegan and gluten-free brownies, to cater for both me and Tess's various stomachs.

And this is why. I'm going to eat a brownie while you're talking. I don't even care of it. Literally. That's audibly disgusting. Sweetening the pill. I'm sorry. So, I mean, people often ask what fast fashion is.

There is no kind of one specific definition, but it's usually characterized by speed, right? So it's the brands churning out so many clothes, more clothes than we could ever possibly need or buy all wear. It's the speed at which they can take a design. So brands like Zara, I believe now, can take a design from the drawing board to the high street in about 10 days. Wow. Okay. That's how quickly they're turning things around. Then I've noticed that they also like disappear from the shops immediately. So you buy something and you're like, oh, maybe I'll buy it in another

colour. You go back. It's gone. Exactly. Like, oh, it's old news now. Well, that's something people often say is that in the past, you used to think about something before you bought it, right? So you'd you'd save up, you'd ponder it. You'd think, oh, what will I wear it to? What clothes will it go with? and then eventually you'd go, yeah, do you know what? I've thought about it for a while. I think I want that thing. I'm going to go and buy it. You can't do that anymore, which is why we're such impulsive shoppers

because you think, well, if I come back next week, it might not be here. So I better get it now just in case. So the process is making us like that rather than the other way around. I always thought it was our behaviour that was dictating it, but it's actually their behaviour that is dictating us. I really think it is. I mean, it's kind of chick in an egg because we are still fuelling the fire by continuing our behaviour.

Yes. Well, even in like, you know, not in our parents' lifetimes, it was just like summer and winter and those are the two seasons and then it became the four seasons and then autumn slashmenter and now it's like a weekly like it's 52 seasons a year

like even people would say something on Love Island and a week later it would be on a slogan like boohoo or something and you're like how can it be moving that fast to get these things? Yeah and I mean the answer is that the people at the bottom of the supply chain

are the ones that are really suffering because they are having to churn out clothes at such a phenomenal pace and so the brands are asking for them that quickly. The factory owners are then asking the garment workers to produce them that quickly, which means that as we kind of know this stuff,

like we know about sweatshops, dimly in the back of our brains, people are aware, but I think it's not till you maybe watch documentaries like the true cost. Stacey Dooley's documentary last year with the BBC was amazing, that you really kind of wake up to the reality of it. Yeah, I was just sort of hope that

where I'm shopping is fine. I was like, I guess H&M is all right, but you're like, it's not. I know it's not. I mean, you could write a whole book on H&M alone. Okay. The difficulty with H&M. So I thought the same thing.

H&M get a lot of press for being one of the better brands on the high street. And they are. If you go by Fashion Revolution, do a brilliant thing called the Fashion Transparency Index every year, where they rank the top, I think it's currently 200 brands on the high street. And they really go at it in a forensic level. They kind of look at all of their supply chains, all of the transparency, all of the kind of measures they might be taking or not taking to be more sustainable. with their fabrics and they compile that into one big chart.

And H&M is consistently at the top. It's kind of in the top 5%. It is doing a lot, lot better than most brands are. It's doing a lot better than a lot more expensive brands, which is something I will talk about in a minute because I think we tend to think if we're spending 150 quid on a dress rather than 30 quid, it's automatically going to be more sustainable.

Not true. That was one of the biggest scary things for me that I didn't realize when I started researching it. But yeah, so H&M, you know, doing much, much better. There are a lot of people who argue, though, that while brands like H&Ms are, mango, etc., are churning out clothes at the rate that they are, they are never going to be sustainable. Right. So H&M has pledged that by next year all of its cotton will be organic, which is really good because cotton, although it is a natural fibre, we tend to think of it as like a pure, lovely, kind of angelic cotton. Actually, it's one of the thirstiest crops in the world, so it uses up loads of water to grow it.

and also the people who are growing the cotton are often working under terrible conditions. There are kids picking cotton in certain places in the world. The farmers that grow it are trapped in these kind of monopolies where the seeds are getting more and more expensive. The pesticides that they need are getting more expensive and the pests are getting kind of immune to them. God. And there's a really, I mean, this is one of the sort of darkest things that I discovered,

but there's a really huge problem with Indian cotton farmers committing suicide. I'm sorry taking their own lives because, well, part of the reason is attributed to is because they are trapped in these kind of awful cycles where they have no other livelihood, so they're having to kind of pay more and more and more and earn very little for what they're growing. God. Yeah. So organic cotton is grown in a sustainable way where people are paid a fair wage and you can buy it

kind of safe in the knowledge that that's all okay. That's good. So H&M is doing that, which is brilliant. It's just really difficult. I mean, all of these brands will have shady elements, you know. Yeah, positives and negatives. Yeah, exactly. And you kind of want to applaud the positives where they're happening.

You don't want to sort of tell people that nothing they do is good enough. Of course. Which sort of leads to like what are the things that we can do. So obviously there's nothing that we, it's like with anything, you try one thing. And then 17 people go, well, yeah, but you haven't done this. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. It's a constant.

We can't all do everything. But so we don't want anyone listening to be like, oh my God. like you have to do all of these things at once you can pick maybe a couple that you feel are useful. Oh my God, completely. Great. I mean, one of the things that I've sort of tried to do in the book is emphasising that everybody is going to have a different way of doing this. Yes. So for some people, the best way to be sustainable is going to be to be one of those women that has like three like crisp tailored white shirt. A capsule wardrobe. And I'm just very French and I just have like a Mac that inherited from my grandmother because she was friends with Mr. Burberry. And I have three white shows. shirts and some really well-tailed slacks, and I just wear those on rotation, and it's really great. And that is lovely for some people.

If that's what you want to do, I am not that person. I think it's so hard to be. I think you have to be very wealthy as well to be that person. Very thin, with a very good jaw. The jaw is actually the crucial element. But you need that for a white. You need a good haircut as well. Fantastic expensive haircut.

I'm constantly leaping across a Parisian puddle. Yeah, you have to have the ankles for a lovely ballet flat. Oh, completely. You just have to. 300-pound haircut. And so many accessories. Otherwise, people would just be like, well, that woman's wearing the same slacks again. Right? But she's dressed them up in other ways.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's possibly... Hair ribbon. I don't think a hair ribbon is the vibe. Okay, sure. So if you can't do white shirt and slack, if you're not a French woman... So the obvious solution, and this is the one that I've kind of spent the most time thinking about and talking about is secondhand. Because, you know, generally speaking, almost everybody wins with second hand.

Particularly if you buy things from charity shops. So I bloody love a charity shop. Me too. Especially in a very wealthy area. Oh my god, the best. Because then you can go and get all the wealthy French women's cast off where they've been trying to curate their capsule wardrobe.

Highgate has an amazing charity shop. Yeah, that's the best one. Yeah. But do you know what even? I think there is a real place for the other kind of charity shops, the proper like old school jumble sale. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

With a little old lady labelling everything 50p because she doesn't know the brands. Yeah, like long live those kind of charity shops as well. We need them all. And, you know, with a charity shop. The thing I always say is that kind of everybody wins because you're raising vital money for the charity. It's providing low-cost clothing for people who need it as well. You're buying second-hand clothes. That's very sustainable.

You are continuing the circle of clothes, the circular economy. And also, they're just lovely places to bring people together. So I volunteer in one, and it's genuinely like mindfulness. Even when I'm really busy or really stressed out and I'm not in the mood, I've forced myself to go along and do my shift every week because I always feel better afterwards. So they're like community hubs, they're places that kind of they train people up. They give people,

help people get back on their feet. They've been out of work for a while. They're great. Trash shops are great. I think that often people are like, whenever I go in there, though, I never find anything.

You have to start, your perspective has to change. You have to start being like, because it's so exciting when you do find something. Yes. And often you'll go, because I used to live in Highgate

and there was like four different charity shops, which were just incredible. But then there was one that was like, there's always one that's like, obviously no one was giving them the clothes. It was like a proper like jumble sale vibe. And even if I couldn't find something, it was still exciting to look. And then I'd keep going back like each day because you never know what's going to be there.

That's it. And then you're rewarded when you do have something. I've got a great pair of boots. There you go. Do you still wear those boots? I still wear the boots. I bet you do. And that's one of the things I've sort of written about is that I think we need to start

learning the difference between want and need. Oh my God. Yeah. And even the difference between liking and wanting. So like something I'm trying. And I'm not there yet, by the way. I am not an angel by any means I still kind of have the urge to shop. But one of the things I'm trying really hard at is being able to identify the difference

between liking something and needing it in my life. The idea will be to get to a point where you can see a beautiful dress and think that's a beautiful dress, the way that you might see a nice painting or a cute dog. You don't need to possess it. Yeah, unless you know, like you are going to a wedding and you literally have nothing to wear. And then you're like, right, well, I'm going to find a dress for this occasion rather than I'm just going to buy it just because it's nice. Right.

Yeah. So much of secondhand shopping is kind of, you're so right, like adjusting that mindset to say, well, maybe I won't find anything today. And that's all right. Yeah. Because, you know, shopping can be just a pleasure in itself. But the thing with second hand that we have to remember is that there is a massive size bias

in secondhand shopping. Yeah. So in vintage shopping particularly, obviously anyone over the size 12 who's ever tried to sort of buy vintage, I've got stuck in so many vintage dresses. Yeah. It can be really hard to find bigger sizes. And even charity shops, because charity shops tend to reflect the high street, for better or worse, all of those cast-offs that are coming in do tend to be smaller sizes.

So I think, you know, we have to be quite careful about saying to everybody, well, just go and buy everything secondhand. That's your answer. Of course, yeah. Because not everybody can, and it is a bit of a privilege to have the time to, like, rummage, to keep going back. Yeah. So there are, I mean, there's other things. There's amazing sustainable brands.

Yes, let's talk about amazing sustainable brands. Is nobody's child good? Have you heard of Nobody's Child? Yeah. So Nobody's Child is interesting. Oh, no, I hate being this person. It's good. I'm into it.

We've got to go through it. Look, I'm having another bite of family. We're having a lovely little bite. And we're ready. Yeah, brown-out. Take a bite. Okay. Have a moment.

Okay. So, no, I'm not about to dish a load of dirt on Nobody's Child because the truth is, I do not know. So Nobody's Child, at last check, this may have changed in the last couple of weeks, but last time I had a look, if they didn't have anything on their website about their transparency. What they have is a lot of, a very nicely written blurb about how they are an ethical company and they make everything with care.

But then when I was researching the book, I thought, oh, well, I should find out a little bit more about how are they managing to do this? Because in the outside, it seems like they're kind of copying the model of fast fashion. They are producing stuff that looks very trendy. It looks like your top shop, your H&M, you're Zara, and supposedly doing it ethically. And I went to have a look and there was nothing concrete on the website that explained any of that to me. So something that people are talking a bit about now is greenwashing, which we get in a lot of industries, particularly in fashion. Brands are catching on quick,

so they know that they have to be seen to be conscious of this stuff. So they're very good now at hitting the buzz phrases, writing the stuff that reassures you that they're doing things ethically and sustainably, but without actually giving you any evidence or detail. Is it like sort of when like food says like gluten-free? And you're like, yeah, that's chips, man. Yeah, yeah. There was a movement of a little while ago,

and I think they sort of cracked down on it of clothes that said made in Italy. in like a beautiful, you know, on the label, nice and big, all beautiful, which to you is like, oh, like made by an old tailor. Prada himself. And then they stop and have a three-hour lunch under the trees. Oh, and I passed out in Milan at home, may. Great. Yes.

And I'll just go back to tailoring under the olive vine. Just one big olive vine. Yeah, that's Italy. I've never been. Whereas really, they were buying up whole areas of the textiles. district buying these huge warehouses, filling them with Chinese workers, running it at illegal levels of payment and illegal hours, and being like, made in Italy. I mean, they were. Technically, technically. But they were just being run by a sweatshop.

Absolutely. It's the same made in Britain as well. So there was a big scandal a couple of years ago where they discovered that actually a lot of British garment workers, I think it was in Leicester and Leeds, were living on absolute poverty wages, you know, being paid less than minimum wage, terrible conditions and they would have made in Britain on the label. And that's what I mean when I say that for every solution you think you've come up against someone will go actually and kind of... Is there a way that you can

so for example with nobody's child you found out that there wasn't anything concrete whether that means you know that there isn't or not we don't know but like it doesn't look good is there something that we can do when we're on a site to check? Yeah I mean so the first thing is do what I did so scroll down to the bottom

of the website see if you can find a CSR statement. So that's a corporate social responsibility statement. And that will normally have details of, you know, what they are doing. If they're a good brand, and not that many brands will have this stuff yet. But you want to be finding out at least where the clothes are being made, ideally the factory names, so the very best brands and the most sustainable ones, will have a list of all the different factories that are supplying them. Because they've got nothing to hide. They're like, this is a nice factory rather than like, we're not going to tell you. Yeah. And they'll have, you know, ideally a kind of code of conduct that they will have.

hold all their factories accountable with. They will potentially be a living wage payer. That would be really nice. And they will have details on the kinds of fabric they're using. So whether they're like maybe using recycled fibres where they can, organic cotton is something to look out for. And there are a lot of certification schemes and things. Yeah. So there are all kinds of things like that to look for. If you don't find anything, fashion revolution started the hashtag who made my clothes. Oh great. After the Rana Plaza collapse in Bangladesh in 2013, which was when a lot of this stuff really kind of kicked off and people started waking up to the reality of false fashion. So who made my clothes? Tweet your favourite brands. Ask them, you know, simple as that to tell you

and they should come back with some information. The more detailed the better, really. You want to be knowing not just what country, but also ideally, again, the factories. You can ask them if they're a living wage payer, that would be great. And Fashion Revolution also have an email form on their website where you can go and send out a kind of pre-written email, kind of asking for that information. So it's really quick and easy. Great. And it's good to be able to sort of hold. brand's accountable because actually, you know, like you say, you just don't know. So nobody's child could be fantastic, but the evidence isn't there and that's difficult. I guess the more people who send that email, the more pressure those brands have, the more they feel the need

to do it because they're going to have to be looking at where their business is going. And if we're going towards sustainability, they don't want to be left behind. So I guess we have to make it like, well, this is bad for business like these factories. Yeah. And so is there anybody who is being amazing. Yes. Please, some positives. Yes. Oh my God.

I've eaten all the brownie. I haven't even had my lunch yet. Oh God, I'm so sorry. It's fine. So Birdsong London are one of my favourites. Birdsong? Birdsong. Birdsong London.

And they're wonderful. So they work with groups of artisan women makers, often female refugees in London, who while their kids are at school, they are hand painting t-shirts, they are embroidering things, they're making the clothes, they're all paid a living wage, really lovely working conditions. And they're great because they have like a very holistic approach of sustainability. So this is the other thing that I sort of realized once I started writing about it was that in order to be really sustainable, it can't stop at the point of which somebody buys it.

It's also got to be a garment that is going to last. It's going to be durable because actually we throw away so many clothes, all the clothes ending up in landfill are a huge part of the problem. I know, I'm sorry. No, no, don't apologise. You didn't do it. I didn't. Unless you did, in which case, why have you written a book on it? Stevie, I did for many years.

This is a thing. You are. I'm no saying. So I gave up buying new fashion, new clothes this year in January. Great. And on New Year's Eve, I did my last A-Sos binge. Because I was absolutely panicked at the idea of starting off the new year without something new. Yeah.

So I ordered five dresses at like 11 o'clock at night on New Year's Eve. And then they all arrived a couple of days later. And I sent back four of them. And I kept the last one, not even because I liked it that much, but just because I couldn't bear to not have a new dress. Yeah. My last hall. And you've been clean all year?

Thank you so much. Wow. I have. Congrats. Wow. That's nice. And you look great. So I'm...

You do. You've always looked great. Yeah, yeah, you do. Guys, this jumper is my granny's actually. Oh, wow. So that is one of the other ways that we can be. Steal of old people. Steal of old people.

She is alive. It's fine. I had her consent. She really loves seeing me wearing it. Like, I wear it when I visit her in the home and she's like, well, it's my jumper. But also... You were going to mention some great brands. You mentioned Birdsong London.

Birds on London are fantastic. So there are some brilliant sustainable brands that are a little bit higher end. And this is the other thing that I've been very aware of is that it's really expensive. And there's obviously an argument that says, well, maybe this is what we should be spending on our clothes. Like maybe we should be buying a dress for, say, £200 and then wearing it for 10 years and loving it and mending it and, you know, caring for it. But if you don't have that £200 in the first place, it's really hard. It's a moot point, you know, it's not helpful advice. So either there are some wonderful, more sustainable brands.

So like Mother of Pearl is a kind of really leading way. Mother of Pearl is amazing. Yeah. Mother of Pearl. But it's from a dress agency. So you know one of those like a secondhand consignment store? No, what's that? Yeah.

Every town has one. It's like a clothes exchange. So people will take in their clothes. They get resold by the shop for you and then you get 50% of the profit. So it's secondhand, but it'll often be stuff that's only a year or too old. and you get loads of like whistles and cons. Oh, go there, guys. It's called a secondhand consignment.

Yeah, it's called a consignment store or a dress agency, I think, is like the British term. So if you Google that and the name of your town or whatever, you'll find, right? There's a lovely directory online. Actually, I think it's like dress agencies, dogcoe.com. And you can find one near you. So they're brilliant. So this I got, I think it was like 60 quid. It's Mother of Pearl.

There's a brilliant website called Know the Origin that has a lot of really great and up-and-coming kind of sustainable brands on it. There's one called the AC, A-C-E-Y. that's really cool. I've remembered one that a friend of mine started called Humphreys and Begg. And it's really nice. They sort of started off doing basically just incredibly like floaty big summer dresses for if you don't want like a really tight one like for the beach and stuff. And now they do like jumpsuits.

They do like two pieces that they're amazing. It's called Humphreys and Beg. Check them out. Nice. They're really good. And so are there any more things that we can be doing, do you think? One thing that I'm really big on is getting people to swap and share clothes more. Oh my God.

Yeah. So I think there needs to be a public lending library for wedding outfits so that we never have to buy another pink blazer or clutch bag ever again. Yeah. I only went to two this year and I wore the same thing to both. Well done. But the only reason I did, and this is so lame because it sounds like good. And then until you find out, I didn't get my photo taken at the first one.

Yes. I knew you were going to say that. And I was like, well, now I can wear this again. Yay. Whereas I was going to buy a dress for, like, a completely new dress. It was only like three weeks afterwards. And you only like, we didn't have to think like, like celebrities had to think like this. And also I feel like I'm above that. Like, who cares if I'm photographed?

Nobody is looking at my Instagram being like, wow, Stevie wore the same thing. Who cares? But for some reason, you're like, oh, you've got on a nice new thing. So I'll feel nice. Well, that's it. And it's a collective mindset shift that we have to achieve. And it's really hard. But we all kind of need to have an amnesty, I think,

where we all decide that we're just not going to care. If anybody turns up in the same dress, you've seen them in eight times, we're going to go, oh, I love that dress. Wear a different. Let's look good. You know? And it's like, I mean, I've got a whole chapter. in the book about the bizarre rule that says you can't wear something that you were wearing

the last time you saw a friend. So you know when you get dressed in the morning you think, oh, I can't wear the orange jumper because Tesla saw me in the orange jumper last time. And she'll think, what would she think? She'll think I have no clothes or that I'm in some kind of orange jumper cult. Like, you wouldn't care. If anything, you'd be like, well, great for, yeah, like, we all just can relax a little bit. And actually, what I would say is that Tesla is an excellent example of it. Because when I first met Tessa, I'd be like, oh, you're wearing this, you all that last week, Tessa will be like, I'm in these Dungarees all summer, baby. They're great.

So my summer dungarees. But I never think, oh, it's because Tessa doesn't have any clothes. I genuinely just go, Tessa likes the dungarees. They're really nice. I never go. Yeah. So it's all about your own mindset and being worried about what other people think. And actually, the other people are just being like, I don't care.

I'm having dinner with Tessa. Yeah. They're not making the dungarees. Yeah, so it is helpful to think that you can kind of look at those brands that you said. Go to charity shops. If they're not your bag, try church shops in, like, different towns or like not just, you because there's often, like, couple in your town but then you might be like these are rubbish go to go to

London towns charity shops go to Manchester's church shops yeah and I guess vintage shops are better as well even though their sizing is a bit annoying but there are some wonderful ones out there and the brilliant thing is that we have something that you know Betty and Susan in the 50s didn't have which is the internet yes and so there's loads of great I can get to the car boot sales now that it's car boot sale season yeah you're the king I love I love a car boot sale my favorite thing in a car boot sale is a recently divorced woman, going, just take it, take it, take it, it's pause, take it, you know. 50p, I don't care, Ralph Lorette, have it! You know, you know, furiously just giving away all

her long. Identify divorced women and follow them around, hoping they're driving their clothes, driving, so, yeah, and be having their wardrobes. Clothes swapping events as well are going to be the new big thing, they're getting big now. Is there any names we should look out for for clothes swapping? Yes. Is there a company that's running them? There's a great organisation called swap rebellion. Swap rebellion. Swap rebellion. That's cool. I think it's rebellion now. It's like, exig rebellion.

I know. I love it. Swap rebellion. So they're great and you go along, you take along your own clothes to swap. They give you a little like token. You get a glass of champagne or whatever. And then you shop other people's stuff. And sometimes there's fisticuffs, you know.

It gets quite heated. Okay. So once you've got a token, you can just have. Yeah. So then you spend that like money. So if you take five things, then you can take another five things home with you. Amazing. Yeah.

So I think they're going to be really great. There's a couple of women on Instagram. called Stories Behind Things, and they run them as well. They do great clothes swaps. And, I mean, D-pop. We haven't really talked about D-POP. Oh, yeah. That is huge now.

That's basically like vintage ASOS, isn't it? And that's where you just sell your clothes. You sell your clothes. I mean, Y-2K style is massive on there, which is terrifying. What does that mean? So the clothes that we were all wearing in, like, 2001. I now called Y-2K style. Y-2-K style.

I was waiting for like 2002, 2003, like those clothes. sort of like big, big belts and like low-rise jeans. Surely not the punky fish. Oh yeah. Like you remember the chain mail butterfly tops that like, like Jerry Hallowell at the Brits? I had one. I had a timey girl. Yeah, yeah.

What about those things where you zipped across your bosoms? Punky fish. I think we're about to see a punky fish renaissance. What about the big jeans that like were sodden? Yeah, definitely the big jeans. Obviously, you know all the kids with the bum bag across the chest. That's been massive this summer. Combat's quite big, you know.

Combat's a very big. Yeah. Yeah. Like the fact that low rise is coming back is my I'm not happy about that. That's where I officially draw the line and say, okay, so now I am too, now I'm in the group of if you remember it the first time, it's fine to sit it out. Yeah, absolutely. And just applaud everybody who see their ass crack. Yeah, Deepop is great.

So I guess that's another way that you can keep it going. Exactly like Tess's adult thing. Like if you're going to buy something before you sort of splash your cash on the high street, just have a little look online. Check on Deepop, check on eBay. These trainers I'm wearing, a pair of, I did buy these last year. They're probably not very sustainable Nike Air Force ones, but I got these off Deepop. So I wanted a pair last year and I thought, well, I'm, you know,

before I go to JD Sports or whatever, just have a look. And these were sort of, you know, worn twice or something, kind of basically got fresh. I'm going to get, I'm going to get it. Do you get it? You get it. You get it. You get it. You get it.

And it's like Instagram. You just scroll through it on your phone. It's kind of, so it kind of scratches that itch as well. Is it cool people wearing it as well? So you wear your own clothes. that you're selling being like oh my god I love it okay so then also that eradicates the whole like look like everyone's a size zero and I don't know what that will look like on a body yeah yeah yeah so the internet is much better for finding bigger sizes online as well yeah love it I feel well I was

incredibly depressed at the start and now I feel like I want to have two things and the positivity you've got a massive sugar rush and we're really like yeah I'm gonna get you know myself a depop shop can I be a shop sell your dungarees they uh don't ever sell the dungarees no never she's She can't because she's in them. You can't have these. You can't have them. Your book is that now? Is that correct?

No. It's in January. It's in January. Okay, but can you pre-order now? You can pre-order it, although you can pre-order it via Amazon, which is another thing that I've had comments on. I'm really sorry. You can't help it that your book is being sold in Amazon.

But you can also go along to your lovely, friendly, independent book shop. And you can ask them to order it for you. Oh my God, do it. And it is called How to Break Out with Fast Fashion. How to Break Up with Fast Fashion. By Laura. Your first book, incidentally, is called. called What would the Spice Girls do?

Yes, it is. I read that in one night after your book launch. I went home and I was like, I'll just see what this is. Oh my God, I was in. It's so great. Very short as well. It's really not, I don't know, there's so much more to it than I thought. Do you know what I mean?

I really was like, God, the Spice Girls did shape me, even though I was more of an All Saints Girl. Yeah, anyway. They did. In many ways, we didn't even remember. Oh, yeah, never ever. Thank you. I would have had you pegged as an old Saints girl. Rift between us.

I feel like this is a Protestant Catholic. Montague Capulet. I think every pair needs one and the other. I think that's fine. You could have guessed that. My world is spinning. You're ying and yang. I must have known I was an all-saint-gall. At best, I would have guessed the cause.

Oh, shit. So where can we find you on Twitter and Instagram? You can find me at at Lauren Bravo. We're on Twitter at NobodyDepanCpod, and you can email us if you have any future suggestions for podcasts episodes. NobodyPanikpodcast at gmail.com. Please pre-order Lauren's book. Because what I've, I mean, obviously I haven't read it yet, but what a lot of people are saying,

which I think is excellent, is it doesn't talk down. It's very much like Lauren appears today. Like, you are just chatting. You are not an angel by any means. You are trying to help and trying to like push the conversation on. And I think it is. Talking sideways, like not down. Yeah, talking sideways.

Give it some side eye. And also, she is a fantastic writer and a great person. Oh, my gosh. It's because she brought brownies. This is what's happening. We've all fallen in love with her. She's got great hair as well. But yes, great hair.

She was just like a drawing of a woman. It's just amazing. Oh my God, draw a woman in your mind. It's Lauren Braver. But it's not about that, guys. It's about ethical and our moral standpoints. So we're back next week. Please tune in.

Download, subscribe. Have a great week. And see you next time. See you next time. Bye-bye.