Nobody Panic - How to Compromise - with Jessie Cave!

Episode Date: May 21, 2019

With the incredible Jessie Cave taking over as co-host for one episode, Tessa and Jessie talk compromise, how to find a win-win solution, and not losing yourself - but also dogs, stretching and Marks and Spencer's 60 denier black tights. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Welcome to No Unchanic This is me, Tessa, and we've got in some holiday cover

for Stevie. So there'll be a guest co-host with me for the next couple. And this one is brought to you by none other than Jesse Cape. Hello. Everyone's favourite lady. Oh, no, that's not true. But I hope that I can fit into Stevie's holiday shoes. Holiday shoes, big dog. She likes a big shoe.

Does she? Yeah, like a Doc Martin. Does Stevie wear flip-flops? I've never seen her feet. No, really? You've known her a long time. I've never seen her barefoot. I reckon she has black nail polish.

Probably. Yeah, I reckon she takes care of her feet actually. Stevie? Stevie? I want to ask you this. She wears, she's got some big, very trendy, big shoes. A big trainer look. Yeah, big trainers.

I'm not into that big chain look. Stevie can pull it off. People can put it off. But I just, I think that everyone looks quite funny. wearing them. It is, they're just, it's very spice girls. Right? It's, you've got to really, I've lacked confidence in all my looks ever.

So I lack the confidence to pull off a cool shoe. Oh no, they're such a statement shoe. Especially the pink ones. Have you seen the big pink ones? Yes. I just couldn't do that. I just couldn't do that. But then I was having this fight with my sister today actually,

because I met a friend yesterday for a coffee, and she's one of these effortlessly glamorous people that just can, throw on a little skirt, throw on a big chunky jumper, tuck that into the skirt, and then just a little boot, just a little bare legs and boots.

Oh no, yeah. And it probably would have taken her no time to put these items on, but it just, it still looked so, like, put together and glamorous. And I just met her, and I was like, how do you always look so good? And I was saying this to Bebe,

I was like, I met her, and she looked amazing, she was wearing these boots. And Bibi was like, well, you could wear boots. I can't, I can't wear boots. Why would I be able to wear it? She was like, she's like, the reason you can't wear boots is because you think it cuts off the legs. Well, I don't know where I heard that,

but actually it does cut off legs. You need to have legs, legs, like eggs, you need to have legs as specific types of legs to pull off ankle boots. And so maybe that is my insecurity about my legs. But I was very upset about this girl in these boots. And Bibi was like, you can wear boots if you want to. You're just stubborn and you think that you don't suit boots.

Do you want to wear boots or do you want to have the confidence of the look? Yeah, I wish I could just have the confidence just for no reason other than just to just go out the house to a shop or to meet me. To meet yourself. To meet myself. Just to wear a nice little boot and nice little sassy outfit. I wear the same thing almost every day and I wear the same trainers every day. I think you look very, very good and very sassy and very cool. Oh, thanks. It's the same thing.

It's the same thing every day. I wish I did have more varied shoe collection. But it's not one of the priorities for life. That's such an achievable dream. You can do that. It's not actually that achievable for me because I have a weak ankle. Why? Why? Because I was an athlete growing up. Of course.

So I have many injuries which I just kind of have to just keep going forever. As a pro athlete. Exactly. They're just the price you pay for being an athlete. So I have a week. What's it from? The hurdles or something? This is from the tennis and from the drills that you had to do running.

Oh, the quick running and back and then back. Side to side. Side to side. Yeah. Touching all the lines, the court. Mm. And I've never done the stretching required to fix the ankle because stretching is for losers. Of course.

Of course. So I have a weak ankle. So I can't, I can only wear vans because vans suit my feet. That's an incredibly boring story. I'm sorry to tell you my feet, my theory about stretching. Yeah. and why we think it's important. You know when you were at school,

and it was PE time and he had you the warm-up, and all anyone ever did was this one. Yeah. And I'm describing, pulling your arm across your body with your other arm. And then you just sit the other side and then you're like, done. Yeah, that's it. Because when you're a kid, you didn't actually need to stretch. No.

So you always just thought it was pointless. And then as a grown-up, it's not in now when we do actually need to do it, it's not intuitive. Yeah. Because we've no idea how to stretch because we spent so long being like, it's for losers. I know, I feel really bad. And I do think it is the simplest way of feeling better.

stretching. People should stretch every morning. I don't, but I will. I'm going to really try. Do it? Yeah. Please do. I will. And then we'll see you rocking the winter or summer. A boot. An ankle boot. A varied shoe. With a bare leg and a little skirt. It would never be a bear leg. I mean, I only wear a factor 100 every day. Facta 100. It's a factor 100, sorry, 100 denier. Even in the brightest summer? Even in summer I wear a black. A hundred denier. It's not probably 100. This is probably a 60. A 60, I can see it. Yeah. It's an M and S. It's a S&S. slightly... With a light... With a light...

With a lichen... A twist of lichre in there? Yeah. I have... I've just moved to house and I have a... I have two boxes of tights that are all factor 100 or 60 or 80 M&S tights and all of them have some ladder in or some hole.

But I still keep them. What you must do when you are like, oh, this one's got a ladder in. When you take them off at night, you tie them in a knot and then you put them wherever they're going. Ideally the bin. But even if they're not in the bin,

the next time you find them, you'll be like, oh, this one's in a massive... not. That is such a top tip. Thank you. Thank you. Body you by Tess's life hacks. It's because I have had a lot of tights that

you just wash and then you're like oh bloody hell how's this happen. Tie it up because then even if you're a sort of person as I am who's like but what will I use the tights for? Maybe they should like you know you're like put onions in like use them to pick up a if you suppose if you put them over the top of the vacuum cleaner and you need to I can't remember what the thing is or why you would do that. It's something to do with like looking for an earring or something.

thing. Oh, and it catches on the tights. Yeah, so it doesn't actually, if you need, your earring is somewhere on the floor, on the carpet, you get the hoover, put some tights over the top. Can you not see now? Yeah, you're sorry, you've lost, your, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe it's like the back of an earring, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get the hoover out, the nozzle, put the tights over the top, then you should be able to, it'll scoop up, but won't actually go and be lost in the hoover. Look, I saw it on a... Yeah, that's pretty good. I saw it once. Yeah, I don't know why it is that people do collect things that they will never wear again, I don't know why I've done that

and I moved, I moved, I could have... It's because you're a hoarder and so you think, oh, this will be useful one day. You've got like, war time spirit and it's hard to get rid of. Yeah, that's true. You're just like, it'll be useful, you're like, for what? Yeah, but tights are a particular thing that, because they are a daily occurrence, if they're a good fit but they have a ladder in, I do, I sometimes think, well, I can, I need the fit more than I care about the lazar, so I keep them.

So I have a lot, I do actually wear a lot of ladd tights. So actually, I'm going to keep them. Sorry. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, you know yourself. Yeah.

And that's the most important thing. We forgot to say that what the topic is about. The podcast is about. Tites. It's about TITTS. Welcome to the show. The answer is get them from M&S. Yeah.

Back to 60. Even on a hot day. Even on a hot day. You can try the places, but you'll regret it. It's MNS. Always. It's always. It's about tights with a side of compromise.

The topic is how to compromise. And we'll be discussing it. Oh, we've got to do our adult thing. Oh yeah. As you can see, I'm really steering the ship. We're doing a really good job. Do you want to go first? Okay.

My adult thing this week was moving house to... Massive. ...in order to get my child into a school. It's really hard to do this podcast with you when yours is so big. But it is genuinely the first adult decision I've made for them. Because I, of the nature of having my first baby, which was a complete... accident. I didn't plan it and then we didn't really plan anything. It's just we just happened to keep going and we've fitted them in with our jobs and our lives and it's been really easy to do that

because they've been so little and because I'm lucky to have a job which means that I can be a bit more flexible but it gets to the point where well it got to the point quite late on in the last academic year where I was like oh right yeah he's going to have to go to school and is that suchly a thing because he started talking about it more like I did I obviously knew he had to go to school but I but I didn't ever I didn't really plan it and it was only my mum planning and being you know amazingly amazing at everything and saying like you know we really need to think about where he's going to go to school because you live in the most polluted area of London you're killing him slowly with where you live and it's probably not the sustainable option to stay living where you are

I lived in the reddest part of the pollution map, the worst possible part you could live. So we decided to move in order to get him into a school in a more rural area, rural being West London. So yeah, so he actually moved. It's the deep countryside out here. But it was a risk, it was a gamble because it was a late entry school place,

which again I didn't realise we were late, but because I'm an idiot, I didn't know. So he's actually got in. So he actually has a school place. That's incredible. Which is quite a big deal for his life, isn't it? Yeah, massive, because he's going to get his Hogwarts letter sometimes soon. And then you'll get the uniform list and you'll have to go out and get the new uniform.

He's so excited because the uniform is the same colours as Spider-Man. Oh, thank God. This he's obsessed with. So he can wear that under the costume. He can wear that under the uniform every day. So it's red. It's red. Oh, perfect.

Yeah. And so he's very happy. But I've also been lying to him. I've been walking past the school every day and I've been like, that's where you're going to go to school? believing that he'd get in, but I didn't realize how much of a risk actually him not getting in was. And then I realized a couple of days ago,

I said, I probably should stop saying that that's definitely going to be the school he's going to because he could be crushed. Yes. But it paid off. Well, done. You put those universal good vibes out there. Yeah, well, my mum did.

My mum did that for me. Right, okay. She applied for me. She did everything for me. So that was very good of her. I mean, I obviously had to sign some stuff, but I don't really understand forms. I still didn't understand forms.

So I've done an adult thing, but I didn't have. actually do it. It was actually... It just happened. It was actually Debbie. It was actually my mum. Yeah, good try though. Well done for... Thank you. I mean, you have moved all this way and you did it all by yourself. And I opened the letter. You... You can't. Crucially, you opened the letter. And you have moved here with them and all your...

Yeah. Again, that was my mum. Okay. My mum really helped. Because I... Yeah, it is actually one of the most stressful things in the world. People say that moving is one of the strict... Most stressful things. But it absolutely is. there's something really difficult about packing your stuff that, I mean you can see it's exactly we haven't unpacked yet, the toys are still

in, we're never going to use this stuff, but I've just got it still in the boxes there just so I know it's there. But I should probably... It's just very hard to be like, to, you know, to let go and then to be like, this is the sort of person I am, and these are the things I need, and it's very stressful. Yeah. Well, well done for getting your child into a school place, moving house and raising two children.

Mine is that I tried to fix the strap on my bag and couldn't. What did you try to fix it with? Leather glue. I was walking here and I was thinking, I'm going to tell about my great bag. And I was looking at the strap being like, that is a phenomenal job. And it was actually the strap on the other side.

And so I was just looking at the non-broken side being like, oh, I've smashed it. And then I looked at the other one and it was gaping, hanging off. So I didn't do it, but I felt really proud of myself for attempting it, I guess. But it's also, it shows that you've carried. such like important documents in your bag that it's broken because they've been weighing you down. So it's so full of work that your bag is broken. So actually it is an adult thing.

Yes. I know what is this is a leather bag? Yeah, it's that. And then the strap is yeah, so I can see it's a sports bag. Yes, in fact, sorry. All of your athletic. Sorry, I didn't want to mention it. It's actually a sports bag.

Yeah. You're an actual. See, does that have one of those medicine balls in? Do you know what a medicine ball is? A medicine ball is one of those. to the gym which is a weighted ball to look really. I love doing it. Like throw it up and then you throw it down on the floor and gets out a lot of anger. Does it bounce? It kind of doesn't bounce but it doesn't just stay on the floor but it is a weight. And you're supposed to throw it on the floor.

You're supposed to throw it on the floor. Yeah, yeah, that's what you do. So you lift it up high and then you throw it on the floor and then you pick it up again, you throw it on the floor. Is it one of those gymnastic ones from the rhythmic gymnastics where you throw it in the air and then you do a forward roll and then you catch it again? That's a little one. No, this is a little one. No, this It looks like a basketball, but it's heavy. Oh, wow. Yeah, if you don't like exercise, it's one of the best things you can do, really, because it's just, it's just quite violent.

Top tips. They're coming thick and fast. Okay, so I said to Jessie, what would I do as a topic? And you chose how to compromise. And do you want to tell us what in particular has sparked this compromise crisis? Well, the compromise crisis is sparked because I realize I don't compromise at all. and that's that's again triggered by moving into this flat with my boyfriend and the father of my children he happens to be away for quite a long time and it meant that we did the move without him

I mean I moved in a lot of this stuff but I realised in the placement of the stuff because it was my decision obviously because he wasn't here it's there's none of his stuff like there's nothing it's like you would not be able to tell that he he had a he was going to live here and I I feel bad. I mean, obviously will when he comes back. But you can see it's just very childlike everything. And to my embarrassment, even if I didn't have children, this would, it would probably be like this. Right. Right. My room is always quite, you know, somebody you once called it, a paedophile's dream. Oh my God. It looks so weird for a grown woman to be living in this bedroom. I mean, anyway, I still live like that, but I have the, the, the, the, the, like,ly out kids.

So it's normal. Anyway, so there's none of his stuff everywhere, anywhere, and I feel quite guilty about that, but I also, I like it like this. So it just kind of made me think more about what I would do and what I wouldn't do. Like, he really wants to get a dog, and this is now that we're living in the countryside. Of course. With your acres in this orchard out here in West London. All my lamb.

Yeah. And there's one legend flat. We could actually get a dog, probably. And I just, there is absolutely no way I'm getting a dog. But he believes that we are going to get a dog. But how do I lie? Right. Why do you not want a dog?

Because I've always just been a non-dog person, non-animal person, like to suddenly be like, right, I have a dog. I just, it just wouldn't be part of my, it's very, not me. Anyone, if I, if somebody saw me with a dog, it just looks wrong. Yeah. They just don't see a dog. but he does and he's growing up with dogs and I do see my kids around animals

and it's so nice you do see the point in them so yeah it's quite a big commitment that I think it's like when you're a kid you just have these visions about your life that it's never really occurred to you that they might not go that way

so you're just like oh I'll live here and I'll have this dog and I'll have my husband and my children or my wife or whatever and then you grow up and you realize that like those are actual real people that you've seen in that mind's eye. And then, you know, somebody says something, it says like, oh, we're never having kids.

Or like, of course I'm not getting a cat. Or I want to live in Spain or whatever. That was never, and you're like, what? And it's like, the whole like world tilts on its axis. And you're like, what? Like, isn't my vision of what my life is going to be like, suddenly you realize you have to like fight for that or that you're going to have to do something that you don't want to do?

Yeah. Yeah, definitely that's a big part of it. I just, I, it's part of his family identity. It's not part of mine. My family didn't have animals and we, we had a couple of cats, but it's nothing, like, it was not an enjoyable experience for my family and they didn't last long. They didn't die, but they gave them away. Oh, wow. So we tried to be cat people, but then I know that's just not us.

The only experience I have with a pet that was successful was a hamster, but then I found the hamster dead after having a heart attack. And it was found frozen with his claws out. Right. So I think that probably... What part of it was successful then? Which is I enjoyed having a hamster. Oh right, okay, okay.

A little bit. Right. I also tried to have... My mum was driving along one day and there we saw a little bird on the road. And I decided that we should save this little... It was a little budgie. And my mum reluctantly was like, oh, fine, let's save it. And we did.

And she got a cage for it and we... And it had mites. So obviously the bird had been shut But we were like, let's save it And then we had the bird with mites on for maybe a few days We even bought like a cage And then we had to go to the vet and put it down So I don't think I've had very success like safe

Right, okay And then we went to find a hedgehog And the hedgehog had gum In the garden We're like, oh, have a pet hedgehog And then it had just gum all over its spikes And I think that died Chewing gum

Oh my God That's awful Yeah So I think probably I've just got a bad memory of animals. Yes, I think so too. And possibly that has clouded your belief about what kind of person you are. Definitely. And I think because the kids are half him, that's, I'm quite, it's quite a big thing to say, to give over that half.

Yes, of course. I mean, obviously that half is. We're in love. We have children. Like, that's normal. But it's quite, I, when he says, oh, he's going to be a Liverpool fan. I mean, I'm not anti-Liverpool. but I'm like, well, that's, okay, what if I wanted him to be a KPR fan?

Exactly. What if I wanted that? It's quite, it's quite weird to just give over half of a human to somebody. It's quite scary that. Maybe that's why the dog thing is quite a big deal at the moment. Because, like, well, that's, we're choosing to, for the children now to have a different family identity to what I had. Yes. Which is normal.

That's what happens. But it's still quite, it's quite scary, I think. Yeah, I was looking for this Janice Joplin quote. that is don't compromise yourself, you're all you've got. And I think we're given so much of that as like, you know, never dilute yourself, always be this person, like, you know, never give anything up. And then actually you're like, well, that's sort of an unsustainable way to live if you want to do anything with anybody else.

Because especially if they're also on the not compromise yourself wagon, you do have to concede somewhere to be like, oh yeah, you're never going to find someone who's like, oh, ticks literally every single one of the boxes. Exactly. And I want to raise them the right football team, you know? Yeah. I think I'm lucky in a way that me and Alfie, we broke up and had this break, which meant that I was immediately aware of if we were going to get back together,

which I never knew if we would and I really wanted to, but I didn't, there was so many factors at play. But I remember realizing that I had to choose to forget about certain. and things of his personality or his habits or his things, because they didn't matter and if we were going to be together. And I had to make quite a lot of changes to make our relationship for us to be back together. And that was the first time I'd ever had to do that in my life. I'd never had to, I'd been so independent.

I'd never really had relationships in my 20s. So it was quite a big deal to be like, right, I'm going to change myself for another person. because I want to be with them that month. So I think it's all related really to that, this compromise worry or thing that's happening right now because they're actually, now that I think about it, and it's not just the dog and the move that's triggered it, it's actually a large part of my life, really,

is having a family and having a boyfriend and seemingly being this kind of unit now. Compromise is actually a daily thing. It's a, well, he's away at the moment, so it doesn't feel very daily, but it's, yeah, It's quite a big deal. I think probably because he's away, actually,

and I've been doing the childcare, and I've been in control of them, I think that's probably why I'm thinking about it more because it's like, oh, when he gets back, I won't be able to just keep Donnie up with me and watch a lot of my sunshine until 11 o'clock at night because that's not what you should do as a parent, but I can get away with it at the moment

because he's not here. So maybe that's why I'm thinking about it more. I think every family has that, like, you know, dad's not here, you're allowed to do this, and when mum's not here, like, you're allowed to do this. I think it's such a huge thing that the older you get, the more that you become so aware of. I think the older you get, though, I think it gets more difficult to compromise.

Do you think? Or does it get easier? What is it? Is it or harder? I think harder. I think harder. Yeah, harder. I think harder. Yeah, because you're so set, aren't you? You basically have never had to do it before. You know, yeah, yeah, it's just going to get harder and harder and hard because you're like,

these are my ways now. This is who I am. Yeah. I'm not backing down on these things. And then I guess it becomes a cross-section between how much you want the thing that you want and how much you like the person who wants the other thing.

So I've done some deep diving into self-help have you. Yes. The a successful marriage. Compromise. The win-win. And these are not just relationship. This can be like the workplace, you know, anything. That it's all about

communication, obviously. And every time I think about communicating, I think about your show where you say, listen, I've checked our star signs and you are a torus and I am this and sometimes we'll argue but we just need to communicate and hang in there. I think about it all the time but communicate. The whole is the be all and end all of any relationship, be that work with a friend with a partner

that like why do you want this thing and why do I want this and why do I want this and why do you want this and this is why I feel not okay about having the dog or whatever and always trying to find a win-win. Basically the statistic is like a relationship which should always feel 60 40 in which both of you are giving the 60 and so it should always feel like you're both really trying and you're both try and look after the other person and make sure they have a good time but you both need to be doing that. So if you compromise in this like fine let's have a dog way then it will always be at the forefront and sorry to put you in it and make it about the dog, but about whatever the thing is,

it will always be at the forefront of your mind that you will be like, remember that time I said we can have a dog? Like, it will always be there if people aren't able to, like, properly talk it out so everyone feels like they've got some kind of, if not win, win, win for both parties rather than just, rather,

it should never feel like someone just gets their own way and the other person just feels grumpy about that because that way disaster lies. But then there are, I think it's quite a scary thing too to reach the point where you're like, oh that will never change like you won't ever change in that way or i will never compromise in that way and that's quite you then you have to make another decision of okay that's the one area which is that's going to be my life now and i have to accept that which is quite which is quite sobering

but again there's bonuses to that too such as well like yeah i was just been incredibly vague so like i it sounds ridiculous and i am ridiculous but i grew up i i My first thing I wanted to do when I was a child was to run an orphanage. I wanted to run an orphanage and have 23 orphans. Okay. And I wanted to, I genuinely really wanted to do that for my job. I wanted to be an orphanage runner. I didn't know how I was going to do it.

I still didn't know. How old were you? I mean, like, quite old. I mean, not young. Okay. It was a recurring thing. I really did. That was, if anyone asked what I wanted to do,

it would be to run an orphanage. And it was only until I probably got to, I really late on, maybe year eight, year nine, where I was like, oh God, GCSEs are happening and like better start thinking about what I'm going to do. And even then I still don't know what I want to do. But one thing that's remained from that want is to have many, many, many, many, many children.

Not necessarily my own. I really, really want to adopt and I really want to foster. and he won't, it's fine, he won't listen to this, so sorry Alfie if you are, but Alfie didn't even really want children in the first place. We were very lucky, we got pregnant, like, sent to the, and we're very, it was a, it was a miracle, but Alfie would not be okay with having 23 children. Yeah, and truly would you? No, of course not, but if, you know, if I had more land,

yeah, if I had two bedrooms, maybe. So that's quite difficult for me because it is something that I feel really strongly about. I do want to adopt. I do want to have more than, I would like to have a handful, if not more. And I would like to make having children or fostering children like part of my future. It's not Alfie's future. Yeah. But that doesn't mean we aren't in love and we, but it's quite difficult because it's like every swath and I have these scary thoughts of like,

but I really do want that still. I do want to do that and he doesn't and what does that mean? Yeah. But for now we're really happy and we're in love and we have two children and actually lately I've grown up a little bit and I know that that's probably not the most realistic thing for my job and it's not necessarily the best thing. So it's just I'm learning to let go of things that have been so rooted in me from such a young age for him. it's quite hard.

Yeah. I think you hit on such an important thing which is like, doesn't mean we love each other any less. Yeah. Just because you have two different ideas of what you want. Completely different outlooks, completely different wants. We are very different, very, very different. But I think that's what makes us work in a way.

And probably not that different. I mean, and definitely in that we, I think we want the same things for our children, which is partly why we moved here. So, yeah, I think it will work But I guess the compromise creeps up on you sometimes And it's just, it will get to the point where we have to make a decision about something important

And the compromise, that is the day when that compromise must happen or must be written down. Yes. But it kind of is less, I think probably a better way to do it It's just to not really think about it and let it go on But remember yourself and remember what's important to you. Yeah. Well, I think when it comes to a compromise day,

some things to like bear in mind. from the work of various authors. This is from This is from How to Optimize Your Relationship, the 70-70 Compromise, adapted from the excellent self-held book When Anger Hurts.

Doesn't it always hurt? Well, who's to say? But this is something that like, number one is about trying to meet in the middle or split the difference. And so it's never just this like going into the compromise even should never, any kind of conflict or argument or discussion

with your partner should always feel like how are we going to solve this problem rather than who is going to win so rather than... Oh, that's why I always made a mistake. Okay. So if you're coming at it from a like, you know, I intend to win and concede no battleground here, it's like how are we together looking, rather than looking at each other fighting, we're looking out together at the problem. Yeah.

And the problem is just like, what do we want from this future or who turns it to do the dishes or what, who's running the marketing campaign? in the HR department. Just, you know. That's a good way of thinking about it. Yeah. We are together looking at the problem together. Yeah.

Rather than fighting each other. What if you're really angry or in pain or you really care about it? How do you do that when the other one isn't? How do you look at it together from the same place if you're in different places? How? Let me ask Jay Mackie from When Anger heard. So when you say you're in coming at it as in you don't both. feel as passionately about the issue.

Yeah, because if you're making someone be like, right, let's go to the place and look out at our problem together. Yeah. But I'm doing something actually. I don't really want to come and look out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So number one, I would say maybe find a time when you both would like to look at the problem together

because you're exactly right. If you're just stood on the hill looking out of the thing, be like, do you want to come and look at it with me? Do you want to come and be here? And they're like, no, I'm busy. I'm doing something. I guess it just when it comes to the moment when the problem has to be addressed.

and we're like, we need to talk about this thing now. Yes. But that's also another thing, because what if one of them doesn't think the problem has to be addressed? Right. And you're actually pretty happy. Right. I mean, I'm playing devil's advocate. For sure.

No, you're making it completely the right things because there's a reason it's a complex grey topic rather than an easy solve. Yeah. So what happens if you're just, is there any problem in just pushing everything to the side? Putting it all in a box. As long as you don't, yeah, pop it in the box. If it doesn't need to be addressed and it's not a massive issue, pop it in the box. But if you're putting it in the box knowing that you want to get it out of the box. And you've got only a limited amount of eggs, you know, in your house.

Because you are like, you know, they're not going to be in there forever. No. That's quite scary. Yeah. I'm talking about fertility. But for you, it might be Paul at work and dealing with the, who's in charge. to the marketing campaign. And maybe your fertility is a factor in that as well.

But I think it's like it's inescapable that when we talk about compromise, the children issue is something that like everybody is aware of. Even if they're not even in a relationship, even if they're, you know, people are like aware that there is a time frame on this thing and that it's a huge decision. And I think because right from when you were small, every single story you ever watched was like, and then they get married and then they have children. You're like, that's where your path is going.

So to actually be, when it was in the sort of distant future of like, I'll run an orphanage and I'll have 23 kids, it's like nice to think about. And then when you actually get there, you're like, I better start cracking on if I want 23. Oh shit. Like I got to start popping some of these out or rescuing them. Yeah, I've got to rescue them. Why do I rescue children? Yeah. How am I going to get my land to put my orphans on? My orphans and my dogs. And so it's a... And also, I mean, I'm such a hypocrite because I say this about children and how many I want and what I want, how many children I want to say. And I also want to work and I also want to do things And I also want to have a relationship where we're not fighting about who's changing the lappy Or like who's getting up at 6am and who's who's paying this bill or whatever So like it is it is just a very complex thing to having children and working And whilst also wanting to have a fun relationship Yeah You can't do them all really it's always

there's always going to be something that goes. You can't do them all. And so sometimes the compromise is a personal one. That's just you deciding with yourself and being like, what are the choices? I can't have all of the things. So like, what am I going to concede? And is that like, this is the amount of money I have.

I want to live, you know, out in the countryside, but I also need to be close to my job. Like, what is the... Your lifestyle is a meet between the thing that you want and the thing that how hard you're prepared to work for it or whatever your sacrifices you're prepared to give up. You know, so if you work a million hours at your job, you're very rich, but what you've conceded on is that you don't have a lot of time. Or if you would prefer a, like, more relaxed lifestyle, you maybe don't have as much money.

Or, you know, you want to live in a nicer house, but that means you have to be further away from the center hub of things because you can't afford to be there. So everything, every single thing is going to be a compromise. Yeah. I also like to think of it. I like to think of life in terms of regret. Uh-huh. And if I do this thing, will I regret that thing? Or will I, if I don't do this thing, will I regret it? And will that regret mean that I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for that? Yeah.

So at certain times I think I work through fear of regret. Because I know that if I don't really try in some aspects of my career or even in some aspects of being a mother, I'll regret it too much. So that's what drives me. Is that compromise related? No, 100, sorry, no, 100% yes. It's 100% related. It's like, yes, on Friday I had to go to, I had it, so when they're at nursery, my day is very limited. They're only at nursery three days a week and I have a few hours to do stuff.

And I knew that if I was going to make this storytelling afternoon thing that was happening at Superhero Day at Nursery, which is obviously Donnie's favourite thing because he wears Spider-Man every day, I had to be back there for three and I only got to the nursery late because I was rushing and it was just bad morning and so I basically got to the point where I realised I only had like about an hour in which to get something done

which would take way more than an hour in order to be back at the nursery for three so that he could see me in the room whilst the story was getting read out he didn't really need me to be in the room but it would have been nice if I was there and it got to the point where I was just sitting trying to get this work done but I was so kind of frozen by needing to get it done in this

short period of time so I could be there for Donnie blah blah blah it meant that I just sat there and I stared at the screen and I got absolutely nothing done which meant that I gave up and I just went to the nursery like half an hour early before before the superhero story time had even started so I was just staying this empty hall waiting for my son to come in and he came in the last so one by one parents are filtering in slowly and then kids slowly and I just felt like what have I done with my day I'm just like but then he did come in and he saw me and he was so happy to see me and it made it all worth it but I did kind of waste the day but yeah that's it's but it was it was worth it because I think if if he had come in and I hadn't have been there and

I think I would have felt too guilty and yeah I might be doing awfully at the moment but at least I was there I was there at the story time yeah I think I made the right choice. Yeah I think I made the right choice. He probably won't even remember

No he won't but he he won't remember it specifically but he is forming an understanding of this time of his life which was that his mother was there That's terrifying because I think he will remember and I agree with you but then there were some kids and I I'm feeling very emotionally raw

anyway at the moment I was sitting there just watching these kids faces to see, did it really matter to them, but their mum wasn't there? And there was one little girl in front of me, and she was like, where's my mom? As the story was being said, and she kept repeating it. So the teacher had to be like, okay, your mom's coming, your mom's,

and then she corrected herself, your mom's probably coming. Yeah, oh God. And this mom's kid was not coming. And I just, I was like, oh God, this, I'm gonna have to come to every single one of these stories. I'm gonna get no work done because I can't bear to see

that, like, that pain, but that was quite hard. Because obviously I will miss lots of story times and I will try and come to as many as I can, but I will miss some and realizing, but that's part of it. That pain and that guilt is part of being a mother. And as part of kind of trying to be a working person who do experience pain all the time

and guilt all the time about things you're not doing and things who have done badly. So, yeah. Sorry, fair Where's my mum? She's coming. She's probably coming. Yeah, I think

Listen, we're almost coming to the end And I think The whole thing with compromise is about It being this constant What do you want? What do I want? How can we meet in the middle together? So we both have maybe lost a little part of what we ourselves.

But ultimately it's like this is being with you is the choice is the decision to like, you know, and plenty of people, you know, the relationship can't compromise. And they're like, it was too big a thing and we don't, you know, they're still great a person, but this is what the thing I wanted from my life and this thing that they wanted from their life. And there wasn't a way for those two things to meet. And so I think it's just about going into all of those discussions being like, what if we get a baby but we also get a dog? What if it's win for both people? What if I do this thing for you and you do this thing for me? Like what if we decide that I'm in charge at the bins but you're in charge of this thing? Like what if, and always just finding this like compromise that nobody walks away from it

feeling like they have got the raw deal. Yeah, or that they've lost part of their identity. Yes. And it's just, and that is the biggest thing about being a human being is discovering that like everyone else is also a human being and has a life. and the goals and dreams that are like as rich as yours and a backstory and a whole, you know, thing going on that we're so inherently by the nature of being alive, like so insular into our own personal.

Yeah, that's also quite terrifying there to realise. Isn't it? And then you're like, well, no one actually cares that much. They'll care for a few minutes, but then they'll go back to thinking about. Exactly. About themselves. But yeah, I feel better now, thank you. I do think that, I think I love the idea or the,

image at least of a couple looking out at something together. Even if you've had to drag one. Yeah, exactly. So I think it's always about like never that, not the fight at each other, it's just how can we together sort this issue out? And even if you're, even if you're saying, like you said, what if the other person doesn't even think it's an issue? It's like, if it's an issue for one person, it is an issue for the, for the group

because it's a thing that they're carrying around. So it becomes a group issue by the nature of being in a group together. It becomes a band. It's like, you're in a band, you know? You've got to have a band meeting, even if it's only affecting the drummer. It's like, well, then someone can't play the drums, you know? The band can't function. And even though you're like, what's your problem? Sort your own symbols out. You're like, no, we're a group. Yeah. Oh, you're so good with analogies. I'm going to use the band one. Yeah. I want to be the drummer. Be the drummer, but everybody needs to help you sort your symbols out. My drums. Yeah. Sort it out. Thank you so much, Jesse Kay. Thank you. Thank you for being here. I liked being Stevie. I think you did a fantastic job.

And I think you filled those shoes perfectly. As always, you can write to us. The email address is Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com. The Twitter is at Nobody Panicpod. And you can find Jessie on at Jesse Cave in various mediums. Creative handle, isn't it?

It's very good. She's on Instagram. She's absolutely wonderful. She's doing her Soho show towards the end of this in the next couple of weeks. She's absolutely incredible. I think you're really wonderful and I love you.

Oh, thank you, Tisorra. I love you too. Okay, well, thanks, everyone. Okay, bye. Bye.