Nobody Panic - How to Cope When You See Your Ex (Live at the Manchester Podcast Festival 2019)

Episode Date: November 26, 2019

Freaked out you're going to run into your ex? DON'T PANIC! Stevie and Tessa work through what to do when you're unprepared, prepared or sort of halfway between the two. Features a harrowing story from Tessa about when she dressed like Jane Fonda at a party.Recorded live at the Manchester Podcast Festival 2019. www.manchesterpodcastfestival.com. @mancpodfestProduced and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. to nobody panic a lot. So thank you so much for having us.

We are at the Manchester podcast festival. At Manc Podfest. At Manc Podfest. And that. We're in Anthony Burgess. The Anthony Burges. His living room. We're here.

We're having a lovely time. Yeah. Thank you so much for listening. Today we're going to be doing how to cope when you see your ex. Which is a big one. It's just a very emotional one. Yes.

We have many anecdotes. We've got like a little note thing on my phone and Tess has just written the time with the shoes. So I don't know if that is. And we're going to all really look forward to what that is. I have no idea what she's going to say. Oh, it's bad.

No, it's not bad. It's fine. Do you want to say why we've chosen this one? Oh, well, it wasn't like the whole reason we chose it. But it was definitely in my brain. So basically, in a couple of weeks' time, I'm going to my friend's birthday. And my friend was like, oh, by the way,

insert name of my head. of 12 years ago. It's going to be there. That's fine. Not of 12 years. Like, it was 12 years ago. Like, yeah, yeah. I mean. Like, it was in the past. It was in the past. And we went out for a year. Like, you know. Should we call him a Simone?

Or that's his name. Okay. Is he in? No. He's never in. No, I'm joking. This is all for him and it always has been. No, it really isn't. So the point is... Nobody panic is an anagram of...

Is it? Shit. but the point is is that I'm actually fine with like I don't really think about him absolutely, it's a long time ago and then I was told him he was going to be this dinner

and I was like oh yeah that's absolutely fine he's actually a priest now sidebar that's just a bit of intel about someone you don't know if he knew him it would be surprising so I found this out I was like yes fine

He's a priest but he's also he's also what? Married? Yeah no he's not Oh oh god is it what do you know Oh, sorry. Anyway.

Oh, sorry. No, he's not, he's just got a girlfriend, but that's fine. Oh, sorry. Anyway, the point is I don't care. Okay. It's starting to look like I do. And, um, but I wrote it in my diary

because it's my friend's birthday. And then just happened to get a spray tank, book in a spray tan the day before without any realization that that was why I was doing it. Because I wanted to look orange when I see him. I want to look healthy and orange. And then I realized, oh, maybe I do care, but on a weird subconscious level, but I don't care. Very, um, a lot to unpack.

slows to unpack guys. And then I was like, maybe we should you, how does this go when you see your ex? Somebody back against my days. Because I think it's, you know, I think it's a universal, and maybe some of us are going to marry the person we met when we were 16. Congratulations. To my parents who were in. It did.

And, yeah. 14 and 17 when I met you. Oh, my grandparents, 11 and 14. 11 and 14. That's when they started going out? Yeah. Age 11? Yeah.

Is it weird? Yes, weird. I don't decide going out. I think it's how long they've known each other. Oh, that's fair enough. That's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like...

No, it was weird unless it is. I was like, and they've been together, they can't have been together for 11 and 14 years. Oh, no, they were 11, yeah. No, no, no. They must have been, they were teenagers. They just knew each other from the same. 11's not a teenager, just to be clear.

It was a different time. But both underage, is that better? They didn't do anything. Don't know, don't know. They weren't even allowed to court because grandma's favorite story is that, like, he went to ask her dad, and he said not until she's 21. Yeah, she was 11.

Yeah, you're right. He was in like year nine. Yeah, as a year. She wasn't even in high school. Okay, the point is, now we're going to do your adult things. The point is that for the most of us, there will not be, that what, you won't be just one person, one person. Yeah, it is a thing that most people have experienced.

We'll have an ex, you know, and we'll have to go through what it's like to watch somebody who thought you'd be with, be with someone else or God, in your case. Or both in my case. Chose someone else and the Lord. Oh, rough. Over this. Fair enough, actually. No, the Lord.

you've got you've got that Lord can't touch me that's like yeah Beyonce everybody okay so anyway we're gonna do

your adult things and just to we said when we came in the bar was low but just to clarify was early for work once this week okay

that's great and also apologies if we're not going to be able to get up through all of them otherwise the hour would be this which actually is entertaining oh hello

I spend 80 pounds on a yoga mat and I hope it makes me go to yoga okay The first step is there. The first step is there. Had a driving lesson.

Yes. Oh, that's good. I want to learn to drive. And it took me five. Tests to pass it. Yay. Did it? Yeah, the bar is low.

Okay. Yeah. Got a new job. Very vague. Very mysterious. Well done. Yeah, yeah. Could be anything.

Came to this recording by myself because I'm still... Oh, no. I'm still new to... Oh, New Manchester. Oh, new to Manchester. Oh, new to Manchester. Oh, new to Manchester. Oh, I'm sorry.

Oh, I'm sorry. Came to this recording by myself. because I'm still new to Manchester. Yes. Welcome to Manchester. We're leaving this evening. Friendliest place in the whole world. Disputed a parking ticket and got it cancelled.

Yes. This is great. Now using a senior rail card, but thinking of having a haircut I last had in 1983. That's excellent. That's so good. Started buying Christmas presents.

All right, mate. It's adult, not brag of fun. No, well done you. You bought me a Christmas present the other day. Yes, I did, I did, I did. So, so quick to judge. I'm so sorry. And started comparing prices of presents

I haven't got to get the best deal. Yes. Comparison, once you're comparing things and you're in a real adult. Bought dog treats for the dogs at work rather than continuing to steal the person who sits next to me. No, that can't be right.

Wait, bought dog treats for the dogs at work rather than you seem to steal the persons who sits next to me. So the person who sits there's just has dog treats. Okay, no. answer it. Look, I like it, I like it, it's adult, let's do like, three more each. Delivered a marketing presentation

at work and only used two gifts. Oh, that's really nice. As though she's been told me like, less of the gifts next time, I think. 12 is too much. In brackets, Taylor Swift and Meryl Streep. Oh, good one. Good one. I hope it was Meryl Streep. The Oscars. Yes, that's a good one. Finally started that

blog I always said I'd write and then a little love heart. Yes. I joined a gym after putting it off for months. Well done. Didn't say you actually went, but half the battle and then a little arrow that says, sorry about spilling Prusca on my paper. So very on brand. Oh yeah, lick the paper.

You might get some extra drink. What? Pay for parking rather than finding a side street. I don't drive, so is that adult? Yep, cool. Yes, because you think, you drive for hours to look for the parking. You drive for hours to look for a side street and then you probably get a ticket anyway. So it's like, for God's sake, pay the £1.50.

Go, be a grown-up, you know? Understood. Rather than arriving and be like, sorry, I walked here for $55. five minutes because the parking was at my house. That is funny. And patronising from me. Repotted my aloe vera plant. That implies that you've managed to keep them alive for one cycle.

So that's very good. That's very good. I've killed two succulents by drowning them. Apparently, you can't water them. Okay, last one. Oh. Okay, last two. But I'm not good to do anymore.

Oh, I just love them. It's her favorite bit. Ordered some clothes from Bowden. Yes, please. Went to the bank to get a mortgage in principle. Jesus Christ. That is hugely massive. And then didn't undersell myself nor my talents for my new retainer client.

That's great. I don't know what a retainer client is. That means it's very adult immediately. Okay. Come on. Let's stop. Okay. Packed as a buffer or something.

Oh no. Tessa, you have to, otherwise she'll just keep going forever. Look, you can take them home and read them on the train. Okay, I will. Oh my God, that's what I'll do. Yay. Okay. Okay.

You are going to read another one. Yeah. Okay, just do it then. Look, she went to her linear. drinking drinks and she didn't have sex with anyone. I think that's wonderful. Is that, okay, yeah. Had a plum around. Didn't have sex with him either.

No, she just didn't say yes to everything he said and then didn't give him all her money. Very good. That is good. Oh, it's so easy. I can't wait to read them on the train home. Yes, so great. Sorry, I've bent down. That was that noise. You're all doing so well. Yeah, well done. And sorry if we didn't read yours out, but I'm sure it was very adult. And I hope you didn't have sex with it.

in general. Okay, so, right, in terms of exes and running into them, so you've got a sort of a curse around exes. Oh, stop. No, it's the myth and the legend and the curse. No, I have been dumped three times

on October 3rd. Tell me that's not a curse. Which, if you're... You've roared your eyes so much, but that's a curse. Yes, it's a curse. It's also mean girls' day because, thank you, a sort of ripple of recognition. Do you go really hard on Mean Girls Day and then people dump you.

Maybe. I'm trying to figure it out. On October 2nd, you'd just do something bizarre every year. And then they're like, get rid of her. She's awful. I know.

I'm a real catch. October 3rd is Mean Girls Day because in the thing, she says, on October 3rd, he asked me what day it was. It's October 3rd. Oh, yes. So we celebrate it.

We. We all celebrate it. We all celebrate Mean Girls Day. And I've been dumped three times. That's not even the most number of times I've been dumped, but three of them have been on October 3rd, which is too many. I'm so sorry to ask, but how many times have you been dumped? No, Stevie, five.

That's a, like, it's not a bad thing to have been dumped five times. I think it's quite common. Yeah, I also count one of those dumpings as merely a ghosting, but I've upgraded it to dump because I went to bed for a week to cry about it. Oh, yes, I remember that one. So, you know, so they're not all like, you know, that there wasn't going out with them all for a year. Yeah, oh, a year, yeah, the big time. Yeah, so I've been sort of like, I've been dumped half the time,

and then I've also done the dumping, the other half. Oh, well done. Well, that is it. But also what I find interesting with X's is that there's a weird, subconscious power thing that is if you've been dumped, you get a spray tan before you meet them, even if it's 12 years later. Not saying what happened with me in B.

But you can sort of guess. I ran after him screaming, what? I screamed, please don't break up with me. And then I stood in some glass. Maybe that's why he found. God, because I was bleeding so heavily from my foot. I don't know. Could be. Oh, I was barefoot.

Anyway, I heavily haven't he doesn't listen. He can't, can't he? He works in a church. He can't get the signal. Anyway, fine. Is that what churches are? So, but I do think there is a power thing because I also have exes who I've broken up with, and I feel obviously I feel fine.

But also, I tend to be very, like, it just doesn't, I wouldn't be worried about what I was wearing or be like, well, I don't care, but I want to look amazing and also just be very, just sort of spontaneously witty and like every second thing I say

should be like a good gag. And that makes me appear quite mental when they're talking to me. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So I think it's a massive, the issue there is that like you're,

and we're going to get deeper into this, but like when you see them, you're so sort of, you're just like obsessed with this idea that like if I just look amazing and if I just am the right shade of spray tan and if I just make the right number of gags, like they will want,

me back. Or they'll at least be like, that's the one that got away. Even if they're married, I'm really happy with seven kids, they'll be like, yeah, but her. Yeah, right? She's a good orange, though. Yeah. You're just like, you're just desperate for this redemption,

for this moment where they look at you and suddenly they'll be like, oh, I've made the biggest mistake in my life. I treated her poorly. Yeah, yeah, I treated her bad. And this podcast, spoiler, is here to say that that moment will never come. Like there will never be this, that moment where you get that.

And also the worst sort of part of it is this horrible like catch 22 that they're never truly ever going to be interested in you again until you are fully over them. Oh, is that like a thing that people say? Like, yeah. But I think as well you have to be very careful because you can do that thing where in your brain you're like, I'm going to be coming from a yoga class,

but I wouldn't have done the yoga class. I look good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, just very, whatever. You're like, there's some light behind you so you look like an angel. Yeah. You just had your roots done. I don't know.

You're reading to some orphans. They're just like with you. They're following you because they really enjoy your company. Yeah, you look incredible. You've just thrown, I don't know, some sort of... It's like clank, clank, clank, clank. Oh, these are just for fun runs for charity. Oh, these are my medals.

Like, what else? I'm wearing loads of medals for your fantasy. This is... For my charity work. I was like, clang, like, all... But weirdly in my head, it was like, all of the... Clank, clank, clank, all of the money I've got in my pockets. So I've got so...

much loose change I think like no just constant notes just falling out of my sleeve it's like 50 pound notes I don't know why I'm so interested in that as a concept but um yeah I think so you when you have your first breakup and and I'm so sorry if you're literally going through it yes you're like I wish this wasn't the topic I'm really sorry sorry you'll wake up in like a three years time be like that was useful actually yeah it will the crying stops though it will just hurt a while. Yeah. But there's also because there's a chemistry thing happening is brain chemistry which you tell me a great fact

on the way here when I said we should probably get some science in here. I'll Google it and Tesla just had it off the top of the head. No, you go for it. Oh, it's that when they put people going through a breakup in an MRI machine as we all have. Who among us doesn't fancy that after you've just been dumped? No, people

who had recently gone through a breakup in an MRI machine when shown pictures they were shown pictures of lots of different things and when shown a picture of their ex, the same the pain receptor part of the brain fired up and was experiencing physical pain. And so when you're like, oh, what's wrong with me? Why can't get over it? Whatever, what's the problem?

Like, it's nothing. It's a heart. Everybody goes through it. It's physical pain. So like, don't do yourself a disservice in the like, oh, it's nothing. It's nothing. It's massive. And also, just stop after like a week, even though your friends are like, can you stop

talking about it? Yeah. Like, it may go on for say a year. Door 12. It could be. No, no, no, no. No, I resent that. Sorry.

But isn't there some. sort of like lame sex in the city rule or something that's like, is the amount of, half the amount of time you went out with them and that's the amount of time that you could like fully grieve the relationship. So for example, if it's a year, it's six months. Oh, that does not seem to have got a good reaction

from Tessa. She's collapsed into sort of, oh, maths, you're just collapsing at the concept of maths. Okay, right, that's, we've all been there. In the escape room that we did earlier, I collapsed at maths. Yeah, we had to do such a bad maths puzzle and I had to sit on the floor

think about it. Anyway, irrelevant. But that does sound completely right, sex in the city, as always. Does that work in terms of view? Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Yeah. But also, if it continues and continues, then that's also fine as well. I think it has to be very kind to yourself.

But the point is that there's always, what I find interesting is so when I was like looking up, you know, think like hard and fast rules for when you run into your ex, what to do, what to prepare. A lot of people, a lot of, like, I don't know, a lot of articles and a lot of also people are like, it's really good to just like schedule a meeting in. you know when like you break up with someone or you're broken up and like I think it'd be great to just like meet up because it'd be really nice to be friends

like I don't want to do that because one of you doesn't want to be friends and it's very very hard but at the same time that isn't actually a bad idea in a sense because you get to control the situation so you get to do the thing that you told me I think on the train up where you were like it's very important that

for example if you want to have a bit of power like you're mad with power then you can organise the meeting where I say meeting as if it's like a work thing I mean like a drink or a coffee or whatever and then you choose something somewhere that you're really comfortable with

and you get there you make sure that you're there so then they have to do the awkward like bags off like oh hi and you're like I'm already here because that you know can feel a little bit awkward when you arrive and you're like oh but I haven't had a chance to go to the bathroom and look to myself to see if I look fit

exactly so you want to be there sort of an hour to an hour and 45 minutes early you know or two days two days early choose like a B&B with like a pub and stay in the rooms above, you know, say. Just be there, you're in, you're doing,

maybe you're working on your memoir, you're, you're reading crime and punishment. Yeah, you're reading like any large Dostoevsky. That didn't seem to get a good reaction, maybe everyone here is just read it. I think that's really impressive. Everyone's like, how embarrassing. Dostoevsky, yeah, I read on the way here.

You're reading, that feels, if I may, crime and punishment feels too, it's too much, okay, but don't be reading like Harry Potter. Don't, no, I think you want to be working on something. Oh, your novel. Yeah, so you're writing, you're reading, you're doing the crossword. Your memoir's a bit much. Doing a crossword is good. He's not to know, or she is not to know

what you're writing. Of course. You don't have to shout, this is my memoir. That's what I'd be doing. Yeah, okay. So. When I first met up, like, my first breakup and I met my ex-boyfriend, I decided to wear a headscarf. You know, like a fashion one, not like, you know, for like religious reasons. Like, that's what I am now. But like, I know, it's like a cool little headscarf.

And you know when you wear like something, just anything that you're not used to wearing. I was going to say a fascinator, but who walks around wearing a fascinating? You know you wear a fascinator round about? But like a hat, even if it's like a new hat or something, and you can't stop staring at it in like reflections and then taking off, taking off. And I was just obsessed with the fact that it was like wobbling.

And so during the course of the drinks, I put it on and took it off so much they had to ask me if I was okay. Purely on the basis of how much I was removing my headscarf. Yeah. So what I'm saying is be comfortable as well. But the thing is, sorry, we haven't made this clear. I think we should deal with the prepared meeting first. Don't wear a headscarf.

Unless it's for religious reasons, in which case, knock yourself out. So in general, if you can, and I'm so, so sorry, this is going to be such a horrible hard truth. But in general, it's just, we have to call time on this thing. So no matter how much you're like, but I want to be friends. Like, you don't want to be friends. You want to go back in time. If you've been broken up with, don't do the thing where you're like, let's meet up, because you're doing it so you can bang them. A hundred percent.

Even if you don't know you are, that's what you're doing. I do think that, I believe that so passionately. So passionately. So no matter how much you're like, this is to be friends. It's been two months, I'm fine. That you're not. And you can't forge your relationship.

Because I think the thing that we find so difficult to get over when you are broken up with is that you wonder, literally an hour before you were something to each other. And now you're just two strangers and you're like, what am I supposed to do with this information? And so it's so hard then to attempt to then forge, based on all of that history, to then forge a friendship. and you can be amicable

and you know there are exes in my party who absolutely would call one's a lawyer and he's absolutely who I would call if I was in jail but otherwise I you know

there's nobody we wouldn't be friends I'm friendly with one of my exes we've done like gigs together and stuff and it's been absolutely fine but because I know the situation like I broke up with him I would never be like

I'm very aware that I don't want to make him feel bad or I don't want to give him the wrong impression or whatever so they're always you can't get over the fact that there just is a level of like, I've seen your bits. Yeah. A lot. Loads.

And up close as well, you know? Yeah, because on the outside, you might be like, oh, and how's work? And are you getting, did you get the, did you get, but in your head, you're like, and how's your penis that I, you know? As you're taking balls. How? Okay.

Because if you could see, if you could see like a heat map or like, if you could see what we were both thinking about, you're probably both thinking about some like, Horrible? Maybe. Probably. Wait, maybe not. You are just thinking about the awkwardness in the situation. But you can be prepared. So if you

are able to, for example, like I am in a couple of weeks, be prepared, then I'm going to go into that situation because I'm kind of fine. I'll be orange. No, I've cancelled the spray tank because I realised what I was doing. And I was like, no. I'll be pale, thank you. I don't know why that changes anything.

But I've imagined all the worst case scenarios. I think that's maybe my first 20 minutes since the podcast, first tip is to imagine, if you are, if you are, you know that you're going to see them. It's to kind of imagine the worst case scenario

which is that it's a bit awkward or I don't know, you say something weird and it's, that's fine. Like that's, because you're not, it's not like you're going to see them, it's not like you're going to regularly see them and also like it doesn't matter. They are just a person and that's what's sad

is that they are a stranger, but also that's positive when you're in a social situation with them because they are just another person. in the room now. And there's not very much you can do to make it really bad. But then the problem is

someone has. Someone has done something terrible and I'll be talking to you later. I want to know. But yeah, I think if it's a chill out, the only problem is when a lot of alcohol is involved and that is my second thing which I read

and was like, yes, that is correct. I won't be drinking a lot of alcohol at this dinner because the dinner happens and then I And it won't be like, I'm like, take me back, because it's 12 years, I'm also in a very happy relationship. I'm glad he's not here, actually. I just listen to this. But, um, thank you.

I'm on fire. I hate talking about my personal life. Can you tell? I don't know why I picked this topic, but, um, but the one thing. You're doing so well. Thanks. It feels like you're protesting too much. I'm not. Oh no, I wasn't. I actually was thinking, this is actually I was thinking, these tights feel nice. So, so that's where I was at. Anyone listening Tess had her hand on my knee

It's not clear what you were doing Oh right sorry I always forget It's an audio medium And people can't see It is an audio medium No but what I mean is Is that it will sort of be absolutely fine

And I forgot what I was saying Because you touched my knee And I've been trying to think When my tights have been bought Your thing is that you went to the The Primeark I think It's a I can believe that It's that you saw through

The worst case scenario Yes and it was fine And it was fine And unfortunately that's the main thing is like no matter how much you're like I'm not imagining anything good's going to happen Part of you is always always And this is no shame on anyone

It will just be there Part of you will always be thinking Oh they're going to look at me They're going to see how amazing I am They're going to think Or the opposite I'm going to say something really like bizarre And I'm going to be like well she's mad

Or I'm going to be like too loud Or too much Like I'm just be you I think I'm just going to be more aware Of myself Yes Than I would if an ex wasn't there And I think that's the thing

That's what I'm saying So I'm just I'm obviously gonna drink it's a lovely dinner party and it's someone's birthday and lovely But I think getting absolutely one good and your ex is it's just not a good MET even if it's like really fine between you it's just because someone's gonna say something like Ha ha lol I don't know and some sort of in joke and you're gonna be like like ha ha lol was like in joke that we had It's actually really hard for me to say that right now but But say something and then and then it's just more likely to get a little bit awkward because you're not just with some people that you know you are with someone that you can't deny that you've known

you've known in the Shakespearean absolutely just to bring the culture up a little bit oh lovely boned okay if you could um yeah i um this is what happened with these shoes it's not time for the time of the shoes it's not an exciting story about the shoes but i was broken up with guess when october 3rd and and then i went to a friend's christmas party and we were at university this We just graduated, and for all these years at university, we'd been going to her house, her family house at Christmas. And her house was in London. I didn't live in London.

And so we had been as a couple to this thing for three years, and now here we were year four, and we were not a couple. And that was very, very stressful to me. But also, I had not seen him since the breakup, and this was going to be the first moment. And of course, it's Christmas, so everyone was looking quite glam. And obviously, I just got it in my head. like I will look so amazing at this do that he will just want,

he'll just fall on his feet and he'll fall over. He'll say, oh, you look amazing. Okay, so at the time, at the time, I think I am working at Alfred Dunhill, the gentleman's barber. So I... She's had a lot of jobs. Yeah.

I've had a lot of jobs. So they, I work in this barbershop. I work in the reception of this barbershop. I tell these, people, these are the lovely men who work in the barbershop where I'm going, they do my hair, I look like Jane Fonda. Like I, my hair is so big. Oh, it's like past Jane Fonda, not like cool Jane Fonda now.

Not Jane Fonda now, oh no. Jane Fonda at the peak of her aerobics career. Like that's who I, my hair is just like this high. And they had, they were two gay older men who had a real like, honey, we're going to get him back energy. So, but the bigger your hair, the more the chance. Yeah. So by the time I leave the barbers, I'm literally like sassing out.

My hair is like this. Like I can't control it. It's so big. It's like on end. I can't imagine you. You're dumbing your head. Yeah. I've done my hair.

I've also done my own makeup. And as Stevie will tell you, not something I do regularly. I look like the Joker. So I've now done this. So already, head and makeup. Insane. Then I'm wearing this tiny, tiny dress. I had.

So I had had a month before got a very bad food poisoning and been very, very sick. And then I had bought at a vintage sale, this very small dress. Never buy anything immediately after having food poisoning because about one day later, you'll be like, good lord. I can't get in this. Anyway, I had not. So imagine me, heartbroken, food poisoning, quite like thin and ill. I go to this vintage sale.

I come out in this tiny dress. All these women are like, oh, look at her. I'm like, thank you. I buy it. I don't put it on for a month. Obviously, I'm like twice the size by the time I put it on. But this is, I haven't tried it on. I've just been imagining this amazing day.

So now, the hair, the Joker, the dress that's tiny. And now I'm like much, much too big for. And then the real piece de resistance is these pair of stiletto heels. Oh, you don't wear heels. Oh, no. Not worn heels before or since this night. But I'm suddenly, I'm like, I'm going to wear these heels. And what I had done.

Everyone's so nervous for me. What I had done was, I don't know how Ophé people are with a Christian Labuton heel. It's designer. It's designer, eh? They cost about 800 pounds and they have a bright red soul. And we had recently watched this documentary about him when he talks about how the very first time he made these heels, he was, they're about to go down the runway, he didn't like the look of the heels, and overnight he painted them all with just some red nail varnish.

So I painted these heels with red nail varnish. Like a child. Like a child. So I show up to this Christmas party. Jane Fonda, the joker, the tiny dress, the stiletto labuton, labrton heels. And then I just like can't, I can't move properly. And I also can't walk and the floors are so slippy. And I can't like travel across the room.

Understood. So I can't get to or from anything. So I just have to stand completely. And bark at people to bring you things. but everybody like I and he's there of course and of course you know how I imagined this was goes I was gonna walk down the stairs like Bell in fucking Beauty and the Beast or Sandy from Greece or Sandy from much better much better reference yeah was that even great and he's just gonna be like oh my God look it up but instead he's like I was right she she looks insane I think

the crucial almost the crucial thing is that you don't look like you ever look ever looked and I think that's very clear it looks like I don't mean this like no please I'm ready that you may have had a breakdown. Yeah. It looks like somebody has had a full breakdown and that's not obviously the intent. It doesn't look like,

oh, she looks well. It looks like, oh, she looks very ill. Like, she looks like somebody which, it was like so, it was just so embarrassingly transparent about what I had done, which was trying to look, tried too impressive, you know?

And you know that the moment you walk into the room, I've done exactly the same thing, I just bought a nice dress, but a sort of dress that I would never normally wear and went to a thing. And so the whole time just being so like embarrassed

that obviously the one person that knows I never wear dresses like this is like why is she, oh she's wearing that dress because she found too shodzy about with me and I'm like oh for God's sake I've done it again so yeah I can so it's just like a sexy clown in the corner of the room and not like oh I thought I looked sexy. Just like leaving red footprints everywhere because the nail varnish of dried like in the end of Joker when he leaves the red footprints because he's killed somebody.

Oh, God. But it's a long time ago, and you've learned. Have you? Have we learned? Have we learned? Would we feel that that's something we would do now? Would we? No, we just, we would not.

Yeah. So my hope is that I went through that Christmas party so that you never have to. And that you never ever imagine that the right combination of hair and shoes and dress is going to win whoever they are back. If anything, it's probably the opposite. If you're going to prepare something, before we move on to unprepared,

I feel like you just have to, if anything, it's cooler if you don't really try. Because then it just looks like genuinely, you don't care. I don't mean like, I'm not looking like a total mess in your pajamas being like, I didn't even know what. But I mean, like, it's a point. It's a point. Sorry, I was walking through in my pajamas. No, but I mean, like, just don't, like, obviously, you know, put a bit more highlighter on.

You basically, that catch 22 things. Because guys love highlighter, as we all know. Famously. What's that shiny stuff you put on your nose? Should it go on your nose? Questions I've been asked by boys. And Tessa. In fact, on the way here,

Tessa said, do you have anything? I can just, like, shiny, I can just brush on my face. That's what she said. And then she just went like that with a little brush that had contour on it. I felt better. I felt better.

But, yeah, the idea of just sort of don't, the more you try, the more obvious it looks. I think what we've learned. Yeah. And you, no, please. But, like, there are certain things that you can do to make yourself better. Like, I don't know, if getting your nails done makes you feel good, then that's like a little thing that, you know, for all they know,

you're constantly having your nails done, so that's not the thing. Big Jane Fonda hair, like, tiny, for, yeah, maybe a bit much. But, like, yeah, I think err on the side of dressing down. So you feel really comfortable. Yeah. And then no one's, your friends who were there and not like, what's happened? Yeah. Everyone's just like, oh, Steve and Ted's here rather than, like,

Tess is here. I think she's at a fancy dress party, or she's going on somewhere else? Has she come from something? Yes. A cabaret or some kind. Good honour, actually. So there's like this Catch-22 thing of like they, and this, if it's ever happened to you, or you know, you're sort of more years through it, for me, when I was, have genuinely been

over boys in the past and like genuinely, not given them the time of day, but in the past, months before I would have been like thinking about them every waking minute because they, you know, done me a great wrong. But now I'm like, oh, I don't get. and then once they don't care, suddenly they pop up again and suddenly they're there with the like, you up, you up messages and the,

had a dream about you last night. I got that. Who sends a text like that? Yeah, exactly. The priest. Yeah. Did you get one? Do you get one from the priest?

Shut up. He went out for a drink with me. I know he doesn't listen. This is why I'm being very candid. But like, he went out for a drink with me on the basis that he had a dream about me. And when we went for the drink, he was like, I had a dream about you.

And I was like, I'm so glad I'm fully over it. Otherwise, this is. the weirdest situation because now I have to have a pizza express with you on the basis of a dream you had and once he's finished explaining the dream it's like well I've got nothing to say yeah and if you have listen it's so hard but stay if you have been dumped then you have totally gotten over it then they've popped back up with the dream the you are the ha ha saw this and thought of you and deep deep liking Instagram pictures yeah or heard this is happening or

whatever want to go for a drink resist with all you your goddamn might to go because your instinct will be like, I just want some human contact. Like, yes, I'll just go, you know, but like, do not go. Because then they dumped you, then they had you on a string and then they got you back, you know? So like, beat, come on, come on, have the power. Now, number one, don't pick up the phone. He's not calling. Juulis. Duolip a reference. No, sorry, this catchphrasing two thing, that they do not care until you, they won't want you back until you literally don't want them anymore. You just have to fake that as hard as you can until you can make it.

So you have to fake the like, oh, yeah, it's a party, whatever. I'm cool. Even though inside you could be on fire. On the outside, it just needs to realize like, oh, yeah, all right. Oh, I think organized something after you. I'm wearing these clothes. And you could have spent a month preparing your effortlessly casual look, but it just needs to have this like, oh, whatever, I'm just wearing these.

I threw this on. Also, it's very good to arrange something after the thing. So that you're like, oh, I've actually got to go. Perfect. And then you get to go to an actual thing and like have like best mates there who you can actually have like a really fun time with. You are actually looking forward to going on later to this other party. I can tell people about where I've been, thank God.

And then it looks from the outside, very powerful. Everyone's like, wow. She's so busy. Is she an editor of a New York magazine or something? They might think. Yeah. I guess. But then also when you're not prepared, I think that's the hard one.

And I've had one of them and I was overdressed and I felt very embarrassed. I didn't know what to do, but I've never had one where it's like, I don't really tend to. to run into X's ever, but I know that obviously happens a lot, like I'm not an idiot, but I think you have to, I think it's good to, again, if you haven't run into an ex,

if you've got an ex-in-head, like, oh God, if I run into them, I have to look amazing. Just know that you won't, like, that you won't look amazing, and then have it in your head, okay, so I'm going to channel this sort of thing. So what it happens, you're like, great, I can just switch into this

rather than what I would do is babble like a mad person. So if you're kind of always aware that it might happen, the chances are lowered that you will actually, You can't live your life constantly aware. Oh, I don't know, I don't. Like, get on the bus. Is he here?

I just mean, like, I just mean like calmly being like, well, if I ever run into that person, I know I'm going to be really like, I'm just going to act like really, really chilled and sort of say, and have like a thing that you're going to be like to get out of the conversation. That you're going to be like, oh, I've actually got, I was going to say, I've just got a yoga class, but they'd know that that was a lie. Yeah. Something that doesn't sound like a lie. So if you find yourself getting panicked, you've got a line that you're like, oh, I've actually got to go to

like a Frank's birthday. Frank's 60th. I've got to go to Frank 60th. Well, quite. That feels legit. Yeah. And also to remember that, like, they did not break up with you

because you were ugly. Oh my God. I didn't think that. So the fact... No, but what you did think is, oh my God, I want to look amazing. So it's like, why? It wasn't like you didn't look amazing,

so now they... Yeah, that's true. You probably looked amazing while you were going out with them. Just wanted to do with that. Yes, exactly. Absolutely. Oh, hello, a recessed memory.

Oh, no. He said he didn't fancy me anymore when he broke up with me, which is part, I think, of the Jane Fonda crisis, is that I wanted to be like the most fanciable person in the whole world. So my point is like, it wasn't that you were too unattractive. Like nobody stays with, look at Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. Arguably the most attractive people in the whole world. On the planet, yeah.

And they couldn't make it work because they're people, not just sexy, you know. So it's not about how good looking you look. So just let that go. Like, forget it. And then... Yes, and also, if you do meet them. unprepared and you don't look amazing and you say something weird or you feel it's but it will never be as weird like it's not people often are like oh I said this thing you're like that's fine like yeah like it's

the other way around they know that this is an awkward situation like this is not in a vacuum so if you say something slightly odd and then you're like you leave me like oh why did I say that thing why did I tell them that fact about I don't know frogs that can't throw up that's a weird thing to say which is you know something I've done um oh god anyway fine and and uh and they didn't laugh at it and I was like, okay. To them, that's just like you being charming and, you know, trying to make it better. And you obviously feel uncomfortable and everyone feels uncomfortable. But obviously, if they're like not a very nice person, then that can be very hard.

But then, again, that's not on you. You just have to then take that interaction and be like, and that's why it's good I'm not with them anymore. So it's kind of win-win as a thing. But it's crucially, like, they broke up with you. Or you broke up with them. Or you broke up with them. Like, they aren't for you because they don't think you're a moment. amazing and you are amazing. So there's no point trying to impress them. You saying you shouldn't

like, you know, keep constantly on the lookout to be like, I've got to look always amazing in case my exes. It's a really good point because then you can't live your life trying to look good for somebody who is gone and it's in the past and whether that's sad or it's not sad, you've got you've got to always be looking forward, baby, like Gandhi said. Like Gandhi said. Yes, absolutely. It's, and this thing I think is, you know, so say that you're run into them or you're at a party and that they show up and you didn't expect them, there will be this white hot immediate panic

of like, oh my God, that's so and so. If you can, if they haven't seen you, just take a step to the side, big breaths. Don't hide because they will see you hiding behind like a plastic plant. Turn around and be like, that is Jeremy. And then, you know, just let that, and this is the same for like,

oh, suddenly you have to get up and do a work proposal. Suddenly you have to do something that you were not prepared to do. It will be this immediate white hot panic of adrenaline which your body is like, run, run, run, run from the situation. And then be like, thank you body, very helpful, but we will be staying. So thank you. Or you turn that adrenaline into a positive adrenaline. Oh, my body is preparing me for this meeting.

I am prepared to see my ex, rather than being like, I'm now jumping in a fountain. So don't just listen. Should this happen to you in any situation, please remember our voices. I remember us being like, be calm, be calm, be calm, write this out for the next few seconds. Don't speak into the panic yet because otherwise you'll be like, hello, Jeremy! That's just... And Tessus X is Jeremy Corbyn, by the way. Sorry.

This election has been a knightman. That's why... Sorry. Yes, he's got some good ideas, but he hurt me. Our love was pure. I've never been out with the Jeremy. But do not speak into that panic. Do not speak in the lift when you're suddenly...

You know, don't speak. At the work meeting, when they're like... And now you have to say something. Be like, thank you. Breath. You don't say breath, breath, breath, breath. Try and keep that inside, and then we're ready to speak. And I know this because at a party last year,

a boy who really, really hurt me, I'm not in a, he was fine. It sounds like you, anyway. Look, it's a very difficult podcast to do in front of it. Have you noticed that when you're saying your own personal anecdotes? You're like, oh my God, it's quite frightening. It just sounds like he hit me, which I was on to be like, oh my God, no one thought that.

Of course, oh, really? No, no, no, no, he hurt me means like he goes with me or he cheated up me. Yeah, he was just a real liar and he was a real piece of work. He was an asshole. He was an asshole. He was a real asshole and it took me a long, long time to climb out and to realize just... If he's asshole.

It was a weird relationship, a really weird relationship. It's warm in here. He really gaslit me and it's really hard to walk away from that and to realize like how deep in it you were. Anyway, so I had not seen him since that had ended. And then we're at a party and our friend said, just heads up, she said to me, just so you know, it's possible that Jeremy is coming.

And I said, but he's busy with labour. And no, I didn't. She said, it's possible that Jeremy is coming. I said, okay? And I sort of thought, there's like a 20% chance because Jeremy never really comes to these parties. Sort of out of sometimes I think out of respect for me. He doesn't come to stuff. But generally he's not that social.

And so I was like, okay, I'm not overly concerned. But it's like, there at the back of my mind, okay, maybe he's coming. And then about an hour later, sort of came flying into the kitchen like absolutely like this and then she just was like like this and then eventually she found me and then she said coming out loud to me which in my

head I just I thought she said Jeremy's here like this but and I was like okay is he upstairs but what she'd actually said was the lasagna isn't vegetarian and then I'm really inside to your state of mind and hers

exactly yeah neither people gave a shit about the other person's thing. And obviously, and so she was just like, I was obviously so already on edge at the thought he might walk in, just the thought of anybody looking stressed, I immediately was like, he's upstairs, he's here, he's here. But actually she said, the vegetarian,

turns out it's not vegetarian, and then she was saying to people, eat around the chicken, okay? So it was like this left, so anyway, so then I got to feel my white, hot panic. I felt what it was for someone to be like, he's here, he's walking in the room, and I just felt like, just immediate panic

and he's here, and I'm, oh my God, I feel my whole, I can, I didn't know how to stand I didn't know how to stand I didn't know how to end That was a good one actually They like that yeah And then about and anyway So then we had a nice laugh about it

Me and the there's the girl And then about an hour later She came in really calmly And she held him by the arms And she said eat around the chicken Not a drill, not a drill And she was like Jeremy's upstairs

And I was like okay I'm ready because I've already had The panic and the panic did not Was no use to me And the panic is gone now And so I was so, he was, he was watching the room, and I was so calm, and I didn't care because I'd already had that moment. Yeah, you felt what it was like. I felt, I felt it, and it was unhelpful.

And so now, and she went to eat around the chick, not a drill. And I was like, okay. And I just turned my back to him, and I, and I were over here, and he came over to say hi. And I was quite cool and quite sassy. And then he, and also, like, there is no redemption in this story. There is no moment where he ever says, I'm sorry, or I fucked up, or like, I shouldn't have done any of these things. you're never going to get a moment where you're like, ah, and that was the moment I was craving.

It'll just be, it just continues to be shit. And then he made some joke, and I said like, hmm, and then he said, oh, sorry. Good reaction. And then he like went to hug me and I went, oh, you don't get to hug me anymore. Oh, my God. A moment of redemption, she said that you wouldn't get

and you just got it. Oh, thank you so much. And thank you so much for applying, but it genuinely did not feel as a, oh, actually it did. It feels good now. Yeah. Yeah. kidding, it felt amazing.

But my point was that like, it was only so good, and I was only able to ride it through because I'd had the warm up, you know? Yeah, you'd had that panic. And I'd had about it, and I'd learnt how unhelpful that panic was. And I was like, thank you body, but we will not be using you today. And it's fine if you don't get to say that cool line,

that cool, like you don't get to hug me. It's fine if you don't get to say that, because you've said it in your own head, and that's good enough, and you'll, like, as well often you leave those situations being like, oh, there was a point there, but I could have said that cool thing, and then you don't.

But also, I was genuinely so angry with him. Whereas when you, other boys, just didn't do anything bad, just, it just ended. And so for them, it will, I'll always want them to fancy me. Like, I'll always want, you know, I'll never be particularly sassy to them because I want them to say, by the way, you're the sexiest girl. You're the sexy one.

You're the sexy one. So sing it, ideally. Now, we are running out of time, but I just, there's, so we've got like a Google Doc where we both put in notes, of what we want to say. And at the moment, all we've got left is, in bold, stalking when they've moved on,

brackets, figs. That's from Tessa. And I can't wait. It's just about how... Just a vehicle to get Tessa telling her anecdote. She's good at them. I get very hot, and then Tess has to hold my knee

whenever I tell one, because I don't like talking about things. She's great. The older you get, the more that your friends... The more you like figs. The more you love a fig. No, the older you... you get the more that they aren't just like oh your ex in school and now you have to see him

once a week in DT now oh my god yeah right and you're like sexily trying to do vacuum forming whatever you're doing I miss it I miss it um the older you get the more that those people go on to have babies and marriages and become engaged yeah the baggage becomes expanded stuff becomes so now it's not just like oh he doesn't love me anymore now you're watching a person get married to somebody that you sort of thought that could have been me. So you're looking at, you could, you know, and if any of it's happened to anybody, you've all sat there and gone through every single one of their wedding photos. And, like, and, you know.

My friend, um, tag, uh, I just going very quickly bob in with the story. My friend, um, tag, so she's fine with her ex, absolutely fine. Um, saw that he'd got engaged and was like, oh, what they did for their engagement. Like, you know, on Facebook, on Facebook, she tagged herself into their engagement photo. She didn't find out until the next morning They were like, shit! But the notification had happened. They've never spoken about it.

They're fine, but like not that fine. It's not the worst. I can't imagine it. Let's have a moment. And now we're back in. A moment of silence for that girl, I think. In fact, two minutes of full silence. Okay, well, I think what that friend neatly proves

is do not go on there. And if you do, do it with a friend. So all these things need to be done under supervision. So the point your friend can be like, that's enough now. Yeah, but you never do. Four hours and that's your time, okay? To say, like, enough looking. Like, enough of them.

It never happens. It always happens at like four in the morning when you can't sleep. You're like, I think the best thing to get me to sleep is to look at. Yeah. No, that will be good. I just want to see he was going out with now. Like, yeah. And I always know.

I always know, and then I try, I can't stop. Because it is fascinating. You just want to be like, how similar are they? But it doesn't help. Because if they're fitter, you're like, oh, fuck. And then if they're not, you're like, oh, great, oh, I'm awful. That's horrible. Oh, yeah.

Oh, I wasn't good enough. No, no. Or just like, I'm awful for thinking. Like, ha, I'm fitter. What? I'm terrible. Oh, yes. It's a lose, lose, lose.

It's a lose, lose, lose. It's a lose, lose, lose, lose, yeah. It's lose, lose, yeah. It's lose, lose, on every single path. Unless you come into it, you set your own boundaries, you know how you feel, and then you are winning. I think you are winning if you... No. Don't kid yourself that if you're like, and I've set boundaries and now I'll be looking at the wedding photos.

Oh, no, no, no, no. If you're looking at wedding photos, you're winning. I don't mean that. But I mean, like, that is just something that will happen. But if it's something that you notice, you go like, ah, okay, I'm going to not. Then you are winning. Like, if you are, I think it's not...

I don't want to be like... And then the summary of this podcast is it's lose, lose, lose, and you'll never be happy. No, I don't think that... just want to be like if you if you're doing something if you at any point if you see your ex and you make a bit of a tit of yourself and then you leave and you're like okay i made a tit myself but you're still winning because you haven't cried and like you know been all like you are always um you're always doing a good job i'm just trying to make everyone feel better you're always doing a good job and i think it's just accepting that like you're not alone in this everybody it's very hard most people on the planet have been through it your your instincts are also very uh not unique, like that's how everybody feels, everybody wants to do it, and try then to be like, okay, okay, what can I do?

Let's make sure I'm doing this with friends. Let's sure I'm keeping people, you know, people up to speed on this, how much I'm stalking. And the living well is the best revenge thing, which everyone is aware of. The best revenge is living well. And people say that, like, you know, I think my Nana said that when I was going through

like a breakup, which was like, the best revenge is living well. And I remember being like, yeah, that is the thing that people say, but it actually is very true because that's, and it's very nice thing to think, because it's not, it kind of turns the revenge that you desperately want into kind of like a healthy thing, which is that just, just like, be happy, like, try and be happy in as many ways as possible, and then when the meeting

happens, you'll feel okay because you know that you're in a good place, and that's like that, that's the all you can possibly ask for. And in that instance, you say something embarrassing, it doesn't matter because you know that in your life, you're okay, and it doesn't matter what they're doing. And you, and it's, that's the hard thing about a breakup, because you feel like you're never going to get there, but you do get there. you have to just constantly try and get there. Yes. Said my Nana.

Oh, thank you, Nana. Thank you, Anna. Yes. Yes, you always... Figs. You believe... Where are the figs coming in this? The Figgs...

You're going to give out Figs at the end of the podcast. The Figgs is just a Sylvia Plath quote. Oh, I was not expecting that. The Figgs is just a really nice Sylvia Plath quote that I came across the other day. I came across. Oh, God. I just was whipping through the bell jar while waiting from X to arrive. Yes.

me, come in, yeah. I actually saw it on Instagram. But it's about Sylvia Plath writes about looking at all the different branches of your life and all the ways it could be as like figs on a fig tree. And so here is one where you're married with kids and you marry your first

boyfriend and here's one where you travel the world all on your own and here's one where you become an Olympic, whatever, and here's all these different figs and all these things that you could have done. I'm like the Olympic athletes one of your branches. to say that. I'm not

she will be an Olympic athlete. It's not Sylvia Pulitzer did it. No. Oh she literally said an Olympic athlete.

I'm so sorry. Sylvia put it. I promise. No, of course. And I do still be here. Yes, all right.

If I trained, yes, I think I could do it. And you're so like... My constant burden is trying to stop you joining the Olympics. It's all right. It won't have me.

And the more sort of paralyzed you are by, you know that if you choose one fig, you can't have any of the other figs. And so you're sort of paralyzed, and then they all just, then in her dream, they shrivel and die. I feel that is the bell jokes. It's quite depressing.

Quite depressing. But the piece there is about being like, oh, everybody has that, everybody has that thing about all these different paths. And so sometimes people will, you will close that fig or that branch of that fig or somebody will close it for you. But for whatever reason, like, that wasn't the fig

you were supposed to take. Yes. You know, like they, when I cried for a week about a boy, I had kissed one time. and said, but he was perfect. And my housemate who had to get in bed with me was like he wasn't because he didn't think you were. Yeah, by definition means he's not perfect.

He's not for you. That fig was not for you. So like, let it go. And you don't have, it hasn't have to be all about impressing this fig. The fig's on the ground. You've got shit to do. Like, you ignore the fig and get on with your life.

Go with your life. You've got growing to do. Like, go to use another fig, you know? Yeah. Go live it. I think so that's a little. Do you have any more tips? Any more tips from Sylvia?

No, that's it. But also from Tessa. No, no, that's true. It's not everything to end on, I think, and we are about to end. Thank you so much for having us at the Manchester podcast as well. It's been absolutely lovely. Hopefully that helped in some way. Whenever we finish, I'm always like, did we say any tips?

I think we did. Also, I'm jonesing for some figs right now. Thank you all so, so very much for coming to hang out with us. We love doing this so much and it's so nice to meet you. We'll be just around. People always come up and say like, I don't know if I can say hello. Please come and say hello. We'll be in the cafe.

We'd love to chat and we'd love to hear about all the things you're doing. People always come and say they're cool businesses and things they've started and stuff they're doing. So always come and tell us. We love it. And do, for everyone listening at home, do tweet us at Nobody Pannock Pod. And me at Stevie M, the S-Z-5. At Tessa. At Tessa Coke.

And do email us with any podcast suggestions. Nobody Pannock Podcast at gmail.com. And thank you so much Manchester Podcast, first fall. Thank you. Thank you so much.