Nobody Panic - How to Deal with Being Angry

Episode Date: September 8, 2020

Did you know that anger is actually helpful? Stevie and Tessa have learned that every human experiences anger, but often women (and some men of course!) are socialised to repress it causing all kinds of problems. So if you’re thinking, “I never get angry” - perhaps you should?! If this sounds very clever and psychological that’s because it is (Stevie did a lot of googling), so strap in and learn how to communicate anger, what to do when it rears its (possibly not so ugly) head, and how to make it your friend.Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Hello. Welcome to Nobody Panic with me, Stevie. And me, Tessa. How are you feeling, Tessa? Oh, fine, fine, fine. A little bit, frustrated, if I may, a little bit, a little bit furious. A little quite angry, actually, Stevie.

Good, because just so happens. Do you think you can help me? You know what? I actually think I can. So this is what the episode is on today. How to deal with being angry. We had a lovely email from, Clara from Australia. Beautiful name, Clara. I've always loved it since The Nutcracker. Clara wrote it and said, I'd like to stress an episode topic. How to deal with being angry. I feel like this is something I have no idea how to do. And I think probably most women don't. So when I get angry about stuff, I just end up feeling really sick and upset. Any advice or tips you could provide would be greatly appreciated. And I think that's a really good point. Because when I was looking up kind of good resources for being angry, I had to type in

female angry in order to get anything that was relevant to women because I think men and women deal with anger very differently and are socialised differently to deal with it. So some of the, lots of the advice weren't really particularly, it was like, do you find you punch walls? It's like, well, I'm sure some women do, but it tends to be more of a male thing punching walls. Things like that. You're like, I don't know. It's such a thing that women don't feel that they're able to be angry. Yes, it's a sugar in a way. And I know that we always try and step away from making big gender sweeping statements, but I do think it's a very classic female thing to say, I'm not angry, I'm frustrated, or, okay, I found that very difficult, they're very annoying,

but like they wouldn't say, I'm angry about this, and it's an instinctive thing to step away from anger and to be like, no, no, no, no, no, but that, exactly what you're saying, that, it's such a classic male trope that's like, they're allowed the space, they're famous for it, like, Here it is. Here's all your... Famously. Famously. Famously.

Famously angry. Inside out, the film. Yes. You know, Joy is a lovely girl in a summer dress and anger is a short, stout man with a short fuse who looks like he works in an office, you know? Yes. That's how they're visually represented.

So, yeah, really good suggestion. Thank you so much, Clara. And I hope that this podcast here on in helps. Before we do that, Shall we discuss our adult, our adult things? I'm going to start pronouncing it like that. Our adult things of the week. I will speak for us all when I gently request that you don't.

Oh, sure, thank you. Yes, fine. Yeah, mine is not really an adult thing. It's more of like a, look, it's not anything. It's more of a craft project I'm going to tell you about. So just sort of a thing you want to say. Yeah, I'll be quite honest, yeah. It is, have you seen those. book nooks advertised to you on instagram oh no i haven't but i think that's because i'm

looking at the wrong things on instagram it's only seals i only get seals at seal pillows advertised yeah understandably and look the algorithm is doing its best with what it's got and all it's got is seals so look so imagine a bookshelf and now instead of a book on there imagine a lit up miniature diorama of like diagonally okay struggling because i don't know what The diorama is. A miniature thing. Okay, so on the bookshelf is a tiny diagonal alley. Yeah, but it's like an alleyway that goes like the length of the book.

And then it looks like it looks like it. So you're looking at your bookshelf and then you look like a miniature world and you're like look into it. It's so niche. They must have just, please do write in and let us know, let me know if you are also being targeted these things. Because the first couple of times they popped up, I was like, what the Jesus Lord is that? And then I got like deeper and deeper. And obviously the more I researched and booknote, the more that my only ad, are for the book nook. They're like the lady, the lady wants a booknook. People are making these

miniature diorama scenes, but they've managed to get lights in there somehow, so they're all like sort of lit up, so it looks like a tiny little street. It's really lovely, but also quite mad. Watch this space. It looks like I'll be making booknooks, you know? Lovely. Thank you so much. Stevie, do you have anything reasonable to share in your adult thing? I would beg you to stop. I see what you mean. I, as ever, mine's boring and Tessus is like fun and whimsical. I've brought my daily average phone screen time down by like two hours. That's genuinely fantastic, Stevie.

It's quite good, isn't it? Yeah. I also am doing, there's a thing that popular internet personality, Zoella, was championing. She did a digital detox day with a mental. health charity and everyone was, I just kept seeing people's faces and it had the word off on their hand and then like a circle and then it was like a really hot picture of them and then they'd be like holding up their hand with off on it and I was like, what's this? And it was all like, on Saturday, I am having a digital detox day for mental health reasons. So good, really great. So I just did

it. And it was really good. And what I found was that I had, the day was so much longer. I had so many things I could do. I read loads of things. Went for a walk, bought some fudge. Like, lots of things happened. I'm genuinely very proud of you. I know what that's, that that's a real commitment to the cause. Thank you. And yeah, I'm sincere with that. And I hope people join, join you, but also don't tell you because they're not on social media to tell you. So let's get to anger, Bebe. Get right in there. I think when you think of, as we said, when you think of anger, you think of men sometimes, but also angry women are often, you know, historically called harpies and witches and, you know, causing a fuss to be honest, women should be seen and not heard.

And that is obviously not something that has persisted too much now, but it sort of still is in the kind of psyche of our culture a little bit where it's like, oh, yeah, you can, especially a point, but don't be, why? I'd say it. When you were saying about them being harpies, I was like, yes, you're like sort of classical, um, mythological or whatever, your version of an angry woman would be like, took all the anger inside, waited many years and sought extreme vengeance,

like in a very controlled, very quiet, very, much worse way than just like exploding and being a bit angry in the minute she was, she did something nuts, like all the sort of, um, yeah, because men were at war. So they're like constantly expressing anger all the time in the form of ultraviolence. Whereas women are like, oh, I must sweep the half. And now I've turned everyone into stone.

Exactly. I've just been reading Sursay that Madeline Miller book about them. I've read that. It's great. Genuinely really good. But she is the sea witch who you'll remember from like school. You'd remember like the story about her turning people into pigs. And again, it's like this, the fury is in this like very.

controlled, very insane, very like enormous, yeah, vengeful, wrathful way. So there's so much to talk about, but I'll start here, which is that a lot of, and I actually know a lot of women like this, where growing up in families and, like, conflict is just swept away. So you don't, when you grow up in, in families where you basically don't feel like you're able to be like, oh, or like, so, so it was me. Or like, you. what you've done is wrong or conflict is not encouraged, then you grow up to believe that anger is dangerous. And that can be for men and women,

but as we've said, like society kind of allow, you see male rage a lot more appropriate, as a lot more appropriate, like even in films and TV and just like general things, like men being annoyed. And it's like that horrible kind of stereotype of like, the woman is nagging the man.

and the man is angry at her. So you go up believing that men are okay to be angry and women are just really naggy and annoying and that's actually what a wife is. So when you go to take a wife and you don't get on and it's not a good relationship, you think it's fine because you think that's what a relationship is

that you should be incredibly annoyed by your wife. So it's sort of like that. And the one thing that it's very vital to understand is that being angry doesn't hurt anyone. Being angry in the wrong way because you have bottled it up can really hurt people. So the best way to deal with your anger is to learn how to communicate

and also learn how to be like essentially friends with your anger. So the second thing, very important, anger is good for us. So I think about the jealousy thing all the time. I did an episode on jealousy and it was like evolutionarily. Jealousy just tells you what you should probably be doing because if you are upset with someone or you're like, ugh. It's like, oh, well, why? oh it's probably because you want what they have so maybe work towards that rather than be all

upset with jealousy so anger just tells us that we've been mistreated or hurt in some way and when we don't feel ashamed of the anger it can help us notice our needs and cultivate self-care if something flares up within you it's doing that for a reason it's telling you that something some way that you've been treated it might and what's complicated is because once you've like lived for ages repressing it it's not just suddenly going to start being very straightforward and simple so you might have to like do a bit of work to kind of figure out why that made you angry when it seemingly shouldn't, but there's always a reason when somebody is angry. It could be the thing that you're dealing with right now. It could be because years ago someone treated you terribly. And

so you've kind of narrativized something in your head about yourself that isn't true or you could kind of, yeah, it could be many, many things. So there's a writer called Soraya Kemmeli, and may have mispramance the last time. It could be Chemily. that she wrote a book called Rage Becomes Her, and it's about how the gender difference comes down to how young girls are socialised from very early age. And the idea is that little girls are shown very, very early on, that if they express anger, that is wrong.

There is like a punishment, and also mothers will very rarely talk to their little girls about anger. They'll just be, like, kind of horrified by it if the child kind of throws a tantrum or identifies anger. Whereas it's completely impossible. And I think this is an important thing. It's absolutely impossible to be a human being, man or woman, and not feel anger. So if you are listening going like, well, I never get angry, that's a problem.

You do. You do. One of the main problems with anger that women often get is that they don't even know that they are angry. And what I've read about, there's so many studies which show that, women are so much more likely to self-medicate before even any symptoms of anger. So men will often self-medicate because they're so angry if they can't deal with their anger. And I've known guys like that, you like drink to excess or take drugs or things like that. And you're like, it's because you're very angry at yourself.

It's very clear. But they're often quite volatile people, whereas women can seem incredibly serene. But their behaviours can be really destructive because they can't identify that it's anger. be like, I don't know why I'm doing this. I'm mad. I'm hysterical. And also what's so interesting across everything is that like we are women and people that menstruate are so much more almost like justified in being angry because we have like full hormones running around our bodies every month. I am furious. It is mad to be to be the ones like given an anger hormone and and then to be like, but keep it in check, you know, there's so much

unlearning that needs to be done with anger because you're so taught about being well-behaved, about being a good child, about not having tantrums, like that's the, a well-behaved kid is the best sort of kid. And so then to have to unlearn all that as an adult is such a huge undertaking because those things are so clear in you that like this is wrong, like this is bad behavior, this is something I shouldn't be doing. And also when it's start, if you're not used to it, you're really, really good at letting it having those feelings of anger and then suppressing them right down because for whatever reason, like it's your job to keep the peace in when you were a kid or it was your job to, you know, you were constantly praised for being able to keep those emotions in

check. So as an adult, it's really hard to learn to be able to let them out. And what Clara is saying in her email about feeling like sick and nauseous. And that is the response of your body being like, I don't know what to deal with, I don't know what to deal with the, how to deal with these emotions. And letting them out feels instinctively very wrong. Yeah. So they kind of like come out in different ways that aren't healthy. Yes, absolutely. Because you've got no practice pattern of like, you know, if you felt very sad about something, you'd be like, yeah, I recognize sadness.

I know I'm going to have a crying out. I know it's going to pass. I know I'm going to take myself away or whatever you would do in a, in a sad situation. whereas you it's very very common to feel extremely confused and afraid of your own anger and to and have all these things wrapped up in it of like you know you shouldn't be feeling these things except you know there's so much going on there we did an episode about how to be more assertive and a lot of the things that come up are that people that lack assertiveness are the ones that can find themselves holding in anger or not realizing that they're angry and then it can come out in

sort of bursts that are inappropriate. And I definitely, so when I was like early 20, man, to be honest, full 20s, I had that. So I was like, so I go to therapy and stuff now. And one of the main things was that like I didn't understand why I would sometimes act in a way that I just did not recognize at all. And it was very much because like

for years, I've just never be like, being angry was like a horrible, that means you're a horrible girl. whereas actually what would happen is I would genuinely be horrible because I would spend, I was in like a relationship that wasn't very good and it was very like, and this was why I thought this is really interesting about how quite in quite a lot of relationships, often bad relationships unfortunately, women will be upset at men's behaviour, but men will be upset at women's emotional response to that behaviour, which can feel incredibly unfair because you're like, well, I'm just emotionally responding, but what you've done is actually, we need to talk about why that's

actually not okay. And that can also then you can often feel gaslit and then you can kind of kind of feel even more like, well, I shouldn't be angry because my boyfriend or my friend or my mum or whoever is sort of telling me that that's wrong. So I'm completely faulty in my thinking. And then four days later, you can like throw a Benny because someone said like, do you want to get a sandwich. You're like, fuck off. And you're like, oh my God, what's happened there? Dr. Mali Koyne, who's another, look, she's another doctor. Anger comes from an unmet need. so if you're not able to express your need, it will impact you in a significant way. Apart from anxiety and depression and stress and all the physical stuff,

I think your sense of self is hugely impacted because you're walking around the world, not getting your needs met. So if you find yourself being completely irrationally angry about certain things, it's because basically there's something that you're not getting, and there's something that is not happening in your life that you kind of need and you're starting to resent that and you're also starting to become confused and not understand. But like, as with all these things, It's just about accepting.

The first stage is just like accepting that you are going to be angry. And if you're not angry, then you're not, then you're either suppressing it or you're not, you're not a human. You're an inanimate object. Shout out to all my cupboards listening. I was just going to say when I, and I think we're going to even do an episode about going to therapy. But it's, it's, I remember saying to my therapist, I'm not, I'm, I, she said, are you angry about that? And I said, no, like, I'm not angry. Like, I'm frustrated.

And then she was like, I, without fail, every woman who comes into my room says, I'm not angry in a high-pitched voice that is the sound of extreme rage being repressed. And it's not that they're lying. That's a really, really important thing. Like, if you are listening, cupboards and others alike, men, women, anybody, if you're listening and you're thinking, I'm not angry, I'm not angry. that like just be really to have a mo, be,

you're not lying to yourself like, but it may take some time to, to open the door of possibility in you that's maybe never been there before, that you are angry, but you've never had a way to channel that anger before or felt that it was acceptable to be angry or, or any of those things.

Because I, a hundred percent a year, when I started therapy, I would have said I wasn't an angry person or that I wasn't angry about things. And yet, absolutely brimming full of rage, Stevie. Fuming.

Absolutely furious. And all it means is that it, you internalize it, you stick it in your stomach. And exactly like you were saying a minute ago, it explodes out of you four days later trying to buy a sandwich about something totally unrelated. Then it means it comes out in ways that aren't the original. It's a stupid analogy, but I once heard a thing about punishing a dog that was like, don't, you can't punish a dog later. So if a dog, like, pees on the carpet, whatever that you've told it not to do, you can't, like, take it outside a bit later and beat it because it doesn't know, it has no concept of what it is between those two things. Like, you can't, it doesn't understand, you can either, you can tell it off right in the moment or like, whatever you're supposed to do with dogs. I know, throw water in them to stop them peeing or, I don't know, I haven't got to drown them, drown them in a sack into the river.

But you can't, you can't delay the punishment because it, it's a dog. It doesn't know what it is that is the crime here. And that is the, and that to make a very large mental jump to your own emotions is the same thing that like it has to come out at the time. It has to be dealt with in the moment because otherwise you're, you aren't able to, your body isn't able to put the pieces together about like, why am I, what is this, what is this being happening here. It's basically, you are basically the dog in that situation getting upset. And the owner. The dog and owner, both getting upset in the sandwich queue four days later. and you haven't got the, you haven't got the mental understanding

to know that it's because you peed on the carpet four days ago. Okay, look, here we go. I got, I got there. No, it's good. But also, it's, it's relevant. It works. It's relevant. One thing that I think is a,

seems to be like a sort of a bit of a myth, is that like, if you express, when people say things like, you know, oh, express your anger, that you will be like, okay, and then the next thing you're angry, you're like, and then you come like a storm,

cloud. The thing is that that feeling comes from when you haven't expressed your anger loads and it comes out. So that feeling of being like a, you're like a storm cloud and your eyes have turned black and you're like floating. That's like, oh, you have like, that's a buildup of many angers. And actually, also that can happen and that can feel like what it feels like to feel the anger for the first time. But it's more really important to say, this is something that comes up all the time, to label it. So to be like, I'm angry. I remember the first one I did it. I was like, I'm angry. And it was really like, yes.

What? And it's quite like, it's quite freeing because you sort of connect yourself with a, in my head to make myself feel better because I still struggle with it quite a lot. It's like I sort of connect myself to, you know, a rich history of witches. And how sort of empowering female anger can be. But also at the same time, you know, anger is just anger.

But like in my head, I try and make it like, oh, look, see, it is empowering for a woman to be angry because of how, little we are angry. It is empowering to own the anger. It is not necessarily empowering to be angry. Good point. So good. Good point. Yeah. It's empowering to be able to say, I am angry now. And then I am in control of this anger. I am experiencing it. That's the part I think that is empowering. Otherwise, you're just

an angry woman. Just an angry woman. It's an angry person. One of the things that you can do is basically whenever you feel that sort of, that feeling that often will, you know, result in being like, I don't know why I feel like, what's this feeling? It's anger. To name it, I'm angry. And then the next thing you have to do incredibly quickly is you have to identify why you are angry and not, and this is the crucial thing that everyone says, not put any judgment.

It's fully objective, this thing. So it could literally be like, I'm angry because they didn't bring my sandwich in time. In time for what? nothing, I've got nowhere to be. Right. So that doesn't, there's no judgment. You are, that's why you're angry. So that, that's, that, that's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not even okay or not okay. It's like completely, that's just, it's just a fact. That's why you're angry. That's very important because then you basically have to pick apart why you felt angry because of this thing. So, then already you've kind of eradicated all the shame or all the judgment. And now it's sort of like,

now it's like a problem solving exercise. So then you then, you then, look at, okay, if that doesn't feel justified to you, if you're like, that doesn't feel like something I would be angry about or you're not quite sure, then it becomes like, okay, so let's look, what has the day been like? What has the week been like? Is there something, and there will always be in this as well, just bring up therapists all the time. The amount of times I'll go to my therapist and be like, so I acted like this and I have literally no idea. It is a great mystery. And my therapist will be like, well, having that day and I'd be like, so, something really awful happened, but it was fine. And then she's like, no, that's it. That thing that you

just said, that will be why you're angry. Like, oh, right, yes, okay. And then here's my money. There might be a secondary thing that is running throughout your life that's incredibly deep, or it could just be as simple as there's an email that I don't want to write, or I got, I'm having an ongoing dispute with a friend, or I'm about to go to see my parents and I have a very difficult relationship with them. And I know that that's coming up soon. So four days before, you have a go at a waitress because she's giving you a sandwich. I don't know why I'm saying that because that's not really but let's go with the sandwich thing. So then those three, so those those three steps, I'm angry. Why am I angry? No, no shame. No shame. And problem solve. Okay,

but why did the anger come after that? Like, does I feel appropriate? Has my, is my emotional chance been appropriate? And if you can, if, and if your answer is no, then now it's time to find out, well, what you really angry about. And if it is appropriate, and, you know, if some, like, it's sometimes more difficult to identify when something has been appropriate. Like, the amount of times I've been like, I don't know. It's like, well, a guy was shouted a horrible thing to you out of a van and it made you feel really upset. That's fine. Like, that's a legitimately gross, or your boss was a piece of shit to you. Be angry. That's fine. But then you can start, because you've taken the shame out, you've got rid of that extra layer of like embarrassment and confusion which can make you like act

irrationally that's yes it's a hundred percent you're you're ever so smart stevie um therapy like it basically is just you presenting and saying um hello uh i do b and um listen there's absolutely no reason why uh it's a great mystery of our age and then say or maybe like i do see and then saying, do you think it's because of B and A? And then, and you being like, no, absolutely not. No, you're wrong. No, thank you. And then four weeks later, going, you know, that time you said, yes.

Yeah. And then, and then many, many months later, you have to be like, I think it might be because of A and B. I had to say to mine, like, how can you stop yourself not being like, he he, he, he told you so when people come back being like, it's A actually. like and she was like because that's she well she wasn't very funny for a star so this shouldn't be because no no no she was like I can probably I can tell you what A and B is within 10 minutes of meeting most people when they bring me C but my job is not just to tell you it

my job is to give you the is to give you the steps and the tools and the treasure map and the flashlight for you to go and find those things yourself so that you come back to me and say it's A and B like my job is not just a. be like, it's A&B. So what it teaches you basically, the C thing that you came to therapy for might be completely unrelated to the thing that you learned to be angry about or whatever. But in every other aspect of your life, you have then have the tools to be like,

okay, this is what's happening to me. Let me have a look in my memories. Let me have a look in my experiences to be like, why do I think this is happening? And to be like, okay, this is it. This is why I feel this way. And then once you've got that, once you've got, that's the empowering bit. Once you've got those skills to be like, I know myself, I understand what's happening. Then you can move it into being like, okay, now this anger has to have somewhere to go.

And then it goes to the steps that they take you, which is like, which is if you learn about anger, you know, on a, I was going to say a layman's level, like on basic Googling. It would be like, go for a walk. Like, have you tried exercise? Like all this stuff that you're like, that's... Now I'm more angry. I'm really angry at this list. This is putting a plaster on a bullet wound. Like you have got to go in deep and like understand how this has happened.

and then you will know what the answer is for your own personal anger and how it can be channeled and how, but once you've named it, honestly, you take away its power and you give it back to yourself at the moment that you can say, I am angry out loud. And then with a little Mr. Burns' hands to be like, I'm in control here.

I understand that I am angry. But also if anger is what they say is, which is like a signifier that something is not the, there's a need being unmeted or you are being either treated or you have got yourself into a situation that is not good for you, then it becomes like it is your friend. So then there's like fourth step or the fifth step or what, I've forgotten how many steps there are, whatever,

is to say, okay, but what can I do to mitigate this from happening again? Like is this a situation, for example, if it's a work problem, then, you know, it's very possible that the people that you're working with are not good for you or the job that you're doing that particular office or that particular scenario, you know, what is it? And there are only, like, there are very few things that can't be solved. I mean, one is like, oh, I'm angry because, I don't know, I'm old and death will come to like, yeah, well, fine. Just whispering to yourself, death comes for us all. That's obviously

something you can't, you can't solve, but there are obviously ways to deal with that. But I'm just thinking of, like, most things you can change and you can, and you don't have to live. anger and your anger is just essentially a part of you is going like oh stop that because that's going to hurt you if you keep doing that or like you don't need to be doing that and so you have to listen to it like you would a sort of quite annoying friend it's only unhelpful to you when it is irrational or misunderstood or all of those things I was going to say the one thing though is if it's about a particular person and it's very it's good to confront people who have who have you angry. But you have to do it in the right way, obviously. And one of the things that keeps

coming up is that if you, if a friend or a lover or a family member or something has just consistently made you furious and it's about over a specific thing and it's made you really, really angry, one of the tips that I think is quite helpful is that to use eye phrases. So like, don't be like, you've done this and you've done that and that's why I'm angry. It's like, I feel angry because I felt when you said this that it meant this. Like very much focus it on you and why you have felt angry so that they don't feel attacked or they'll be less likely to be defensive. And also you don't, when you're angry or somebody often what happens is, then they explain their side of the story. And you're like, oh, I see it from both sides.

I'm less angry now. So if you barrel and being like, you're a piece of shit and this is why I'm angry, that's possibly unhelpful. As much as they may be a piece of shit, fine. but go in with the kind of like, this is what I feel. You now? How do you respond to that and what's your side of it? And then that's the best way to kind of diffuse a specifically angry situation with a person. But there's all my tips.

I'm dry as a well. No, pleat. Well, it's been the most, it's been the most forcund well. What a phrase. Never said out of it. Listen, is it a word? I've never said out loud. I think it's great.

I think it means very full and giving, but I'm not confident. I love it. I think our episode about how to have a difficult conversation I found fascinating because we talked about being like, what do you actually want out of this? And probably the answer is I want them to fall on their knees and say that I have been right all along. They are a shithead and blah, blah, blah. But actually, that's never going to be achieved.

You have to just break it down to be like, the thing that might be achieved is that you come to some kind of harmonious agreement or whatever. But also exactly what you're saying about the eye state. The moment that you shift that from like, you're a piece of shit to, I felt very upset when you ate my cake, you know. It's about food based, isn't it? Our anger. I think it's because both of us in imagining it, the worst thing we can imagine is someone like eating our thing or taking or getting the food or taking away our food. Furious. Furious.

Yeah. And I just want to say one last thing about, because we talked about sort of that male thing about like punching walls and men getting very angry and stuff. and I know it's a real trope and I'm sure we've got lots of male listeners and I'm sure people have either known people or been those people who have got furious and like punched a wall or kicked a bin or done those things. And I think the internet, just to say if you're one of those people, the internet can be very quick to be like, to be very judgmental of you. Like I've seen a lot of Twitter things that's like, girls, if you go to his house and he's as punches and there's hole in the wall, like leave. you know that and and to be honest i mean i don't know how many holes there are you make a call if you need to leave but like it's very quick to be like men who are angry like are the worst like they are you know and actually really really good people have anger that they you know can't control and stuff and i think

it's just if it's for you or if it's for another person you like when you firstly try and find another way to get that anger out of you it doesn't have to involve you you you know kicking something also if you're trying to help another person And the line is, have they ever, when they break stuff or when they do something in anger, is it their own stuff or is it your stuff? And the moment that it tips into being like, it's your stuff, like, that they break your things. That's the moment that you can be like, this is time on this. Like, this is not an anger that can be solved, but maybe not by me and this is not my job

to help this person out. They need outside help. It's not, you can't help them. They need to have, it's therapy time. And also, as well, like I found it really interesting about how quite a lot, I read about ages ago, about how often when people are physically angry,

in terms of wall punching and stuff, we're not talking about domestic abuse. That's a completely separate thing. And my God, if you're having that, please get help. But if somebody is, yeah, punching walls or whatever, it's 99% of the time because they are unable to articulate their emotions.

So that's like the first, if you were somebody who finds that you just like throw things around, it's sometimes helpful to try and give yourself like, I don't know, four sentences, and you've only got four sentences, and you have to write down in four sentences exactly how you are feeling and why. So you keep it short, you don't go on and on spiral into like more stuff, but you're able, it's just so important that you're able to know what you're feeling. So then you're able to explain why. And when you don't, the reason that you throw things or punch balls or whatever is because your brain is going like, alert, alert,

like what is happening? And so it's like, it's like deep, short. circuiting, essentially. So this is a hug coming out to people who are wall punches. You just don't know what to do with yourselves. I don't break other people's things. I love that being a tip. Don't break other people. I just like, be aware of it of being like, what are the things you're breaking? Is it a bin or is it your girlfriend's precious porcelain? Because that's where the line becomes, you know, I also highly recommend Liam Williams's Laddhood series. It's so fantastic that it, the radio four show and then the TV show. It's just really, really beautiful and it explores that male teenage anger and how if unresolved and understood and unworked out in yourself,

what it becomes in later life. And I think it's, and it's also really, really funny. It was a fantastic show and I highly recommend it. Great. And yet, I hope that helps, Clara. Please do messages on Twitter if you have any suggestions for future episodes because we are, We are constantly taking suggestions now, and it's a real joy. You guys come up with way better things than we could have done. At Nobody PanicPod on Twitter, and I'm at Stevie M. The S is 5, not an S. Mine is at Tessa Coates, and the email is Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com.

Lovely. And look, have an accepting, have an accepting week, and notice that, notice the anger within yourself, because it'll happen. You'll literally be like, oh my God, this is it. I'm angry. Thanks for listening, guys. I hope we were some help and we will see you next week. See you next week.

Bye.