Nobody Panic - How to Deal With Burnout (Live at Cambridge Junction - Book Tour)

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Approaching burnout? Think you’re absolutely fine? This episode is for you because sometimes the symptoms of burnout, as we’ve discovered, are NOT obvious! Tessa has read a book on it and takes us through the Stress Cycle which proves to be very enlightening for both Stevie and the live audience. "I’m not your target audience but this was so helpful" - Venue tech Tim at Cambridge Junction. Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded live by 'venue tech Tim' at Cambridge Junction and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Hello and welcome to Nobody Panic. To Cambridge Junction, to the J3 Arena, as I believe this theatre is known.

Yes, yes, there's 50,000 in. And yeah, we're absolutely wild with excitement. A woman's bought as a bottle of wine. We keep saying it, we're really excited about that. It's coming a jug, so it feel fantastic. And also when we said it, you did an incredibly like, yes, from me, a little like a head tilt. And that was all I've ever wanted to do was to send someone something and go, that was me. So thank you.

We are, it's the second live show of the book tour. And we're going to do how to cope with burnout because already were burned out. It's going to be two husks of women trying to give you some advice. Yeah, we thought it was one that people write to us quite a bit about. It's a very misunderstood, we thought, topic. And also one that ain't nobody not feeling something close to burnout. Yes. Also, I think it's something that is bandied around quite a lot.

He's going, oh, I'm approaching Bernan. You're like, are you? No. And when it's actually what I found very interesting about it is actually, you know, there are legit symptoms. One of which I was like, oh, that's what I felt today. And I was like, oh, yeah, no, I'm, so I'm also going through it. As a lot of the episodes, actually, we've been doing recently,

is I halfway through realized that it's for me. And then Tessa just, it's like a therapy session. But yes. So, but first off, before we get into it. We just had to do, we just did how to stop being a people pleaser. Oh, my God. Halfway through, Stevie was like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I'm not one.

And then halfway through, she had a total... Nervous breakdown. Nervous breakdown. So crying. So I crying. And we had to just do... We had to record a second...

We managed to make it a two-parter. Because we talked so much about my issues. Yeah. We hadn't actually got to the bit where it was like, how to stop being a people pleaser. It was just about like how to identify what sort of people pleaser you are.

And that's all we talked about for an hour. But I thought it was actually... It was interesting. It's so interesting. It was so interesting. And also, if you want to hear a woman, yeah, audio-wise have a meltdown. It's quite interesting to hear in real time that happened.

Like, my voice stops getting wobbly. And they start going like, oh, God. I'm adult things. She's just thrown one right on the floor. It's my favourite part of the show because I'm always so proud of what people have achieved. And increasingly, when we do these shows, people come that don't know the podcast. And then we say, please could you write your adult thing? And some people are like, oh my God, yes, I'm really excited to tell you my adult thing.

And we know that they know the show. And some people are like, what? My adult thing. Like, the what, the sexiest thing I've ever done? And we're like, no, no, no. This one is a perfect example, because when I opened it, all I could see was the first word, which I was like, oh, it's sex. And then when I opened it, it's actually set an alarm.

Unless it's sex an alarm. It's set an alarm for 7 a.m. this week as trying to become a morning jimmer now. The clocks have changed. Oh, yes. That's so hard when it's dark. How do you do that? No, no, in the morning, if not, remember. Seven, what?

So he's gone in the morning. What is, sorry, I'm so sorry, I'm having a, it's not, it's not dark in the morning. It's, does it only get dark in the evening early? Yeah, that's the point. No, no, no, can someone else, I'm, I feel like I'm going mad now. That's the point, right? The hour goes back so you get more hours in the morning. Oh, more light, right, or wrong?

Yeah, people aren't confident. Okay, good, this is good, because I feel like it's, it's, it, the day is squished both ways. Yeah, that's how it feels, because when you, because when I had a job, for like years, I would not see sunlight at all for like that part of the year and then in the summer it would be... Tesa's never got up before 10.

That's all we're now. It's dark to me. I'm neither a eye in a way. Every minute of the day. But look, well done on becoming a morning jimmer. Okay. I don't know how you've done that. Saying no to my boss

when he asked me to do admin tasks that he can't be bothered to do at 5.30pm. That's very good, very good. Say no. It changed my job. duvet into a winter duvet. Delicious. Oh, the crown.

Absolutely. I really felt that one. Oh, yeah. I hope it's sort of tart and brushed cotton perhaps. Could be. Is it like my dress? I'm wearing your duvet. She is wearing a duvet today.

I am. Yeah. Bored a Christmas tree for my own flat. Are you decorating it this week? Oh, wow. Sorry, I realized that it was your go, but I got so excited. What someone's got? We say it's anonymous, but then I'm always like, tell me more about it.

Yeah, it's like, what baubles have you got? It said Christmas tree already are. Christmas trees already are. Oh, yeah. Fuck it. Do it. Fuck it. Fuck it.

The Christmas tree. Made my boyfriend's award winning Halloween costume brackets. He was a bunch of grapes. Yes. Oh, it was like balloon, like purple balloons. I hope so. That's a lot of fun. And he won a prize.

I really enjoy what. And listen, who's to say how the Halloween event went down? But I suspect it was in a pub and there was like a prize for the best dress. But to upgrade that to award winning. M-W-W-W-W-W-Gorgeous. Oh my God, booked myself to go to two separate dentists, both for the first time in two years. Ooh.

I want to know why you've gone to two different ones. I've never had so many questions doing this. Yeah, I brought a pen today. We're like, oh, wow! This one is, yeah, amazing. Two separate dentists. Try them out. Okay, here we go.

Had a poo in my very small house where my boyfriend was there. It's been three months. I don't know if like she hasn't pooed for three months. Well done. That's really, that's really grown up. That is going to also grown up. I didn't drop the baby.

Yes. Yes. Well done. Open to Smirnoff Ice on the train on the way here with a lighter. Who needs a man slash bottle opener with a lighter? Oh, I don't even know how you do that. Burn it and then it explodes. That's what I imagine you did.

Clean to the filter in my Dyson. You own a Dyson. Do you? Okay, that's the take home there. Very good. Accepting that I take a massive rucksack wherever I go and that it's cool. And it is. Oh, that's a good one. A book event that I went to with Tessa. She just turned up with a massive huge rucksack and a huge old-fashioned like computer keyboard just hanging out of it and didn't explain to anyone why and just kept turning around and everyone was just docking behind it. And it was the unapologetic nature of it that I really enjoyed, Tessa. Thank you so much. My MacBook had got. wet. And it was the cheapest option to buy the Dell 999 keyboard attachment and I stick that on a Mac. And why not, I say. Why not? Why not? Use the telephone to book an appointment. Oh, Hoovered twice this week. Oh, yeah. What? Get together. I think I've ever hoovered. Learning how to drive at 31 and not crying every lesson. I still can't well done. That's so exciting.

I love this one. I bought the shoes I needed, not the shoes I wanted. Oh, God. In a way, we've all done that. I'm just showing everyone my shoe there. Put that on an Instagram poster and put it up. A mountain, a girl looking out into the vista. The shoes I needed, but not the shoes I wanted. I'll bring us home with, quit my job to start my own thing. Also, my boss is awful.

Yay! Oh, well done. Well fucking done. I feel like there was some that we've missed there, but I'm sorry if we didn't get to read yours out. I think we just did a very, like, haphazard job there. but thank you so much. Let's get into burnout. Let's get in.

It's a big topic. Although yesterday we did how to figure out what you want to do with your life. And we're like, Jesus Christ, how can we possibly? But we actually did. We actually did it. No, we absolutely did not. Tessa, you've written a book recently on it. No, you've read a book recently on it.

I have read a book on it. I do wish. I do wish to tell you. I do wish to tell you. I have read Burnout, The Secret to Solving the Stress Cycle, by Emily and Amelia Nagoski, who are twins, identical twins. And one is a scientist, a PhD neuroscientist, and one is a PhD of music professor. I don't actually.

He's a PhD of music. Professor, we've all heard of this. So one of them. Cambridge. Cambridge. You didn't get in, you say. We didn't get in. Oh, dear.

they said, why do you want to go to Claire? And I kept calling Claire college. Claire's college. I really believe that. Yeah, I did. And every time they said Claire, I went, Clare. And then they were like, why Claire?

And I gestured out. And I was like, look at the beautiful architecture. And they were like, that's kings. I was like, cool, cool, cool, happy to be here. And then they said, you said you've written, done an archaeological dig on your UCAS form and I had lied about that

never been on an archaeological dig and I just hadn't crossed my mind that they were going to ask me about it and then they were like so tell us all about the archaeological dig and I was like oh yes I brushed some bones I brushed those bones baby

we've all seen it, we're in Indiana Jones right that I had read a murder mystery novel called Angel Underground about a private detective who has to solve a murder at an archaeological dick. And I described the plot.

And that was my Cambridge interview. I didn't get in. I can't believe. Also, it's the exact opposite of my Oxford interview, which is I've tried to do English literature there and they said, what books have you read recently? I haven't read any. And you just

described a book when they hadn't asked you to. So we should have gone on to us. I promise. Right, we need to stop talking about. We've got a lot of pent up. issues here. Sorry. Cambridge. Thank you for having us. Sorry. Yeah.

So one is a PhD in neuroscience and one has a PhD in music and one is a scientist and one as a child went to music conservatoire where they do a lot of work with managing stress in children managing performance stress, channeling the stress, understanding how to use it in your body, how to not let it overwhelm you. And so she, from a very early age, really understood your body and how it responds to things physically and knew all of this stuff and her twin sister, who even though she studies the mind and should know all of this stuff, had no idea of how much your brain can affect the rest of your body.

And so basically the whole topic of their book is about burnout, it's about understanding it, it's about being like, this is what happens to you. And realizing that burnout, there's a nice quote that, listen, I originally thought it was from Usher, but it turns out he just wrote it on his Instagram.

That will get you. That will get you. And the quote was, Yeah, shorty got down. Come and get me. But I think that we should leave them on that, really. I'm so glad you know anything about Usher because I've got not, with gun to my head.

You can always just with Usher, it is a little tip for you. Always just say, get low a bit. And then that, anything to be getting low is normally Usher. Yeah, there's a horrible bit in one of this one of this ones. I was a hold the head steady. I'm a milk the cow. And I thought he was talking about farming for a long time. And actually, I still don't understand what he's, oh no.

Oh, he's talking. Sorry. in a way I thought he was talking about boobs he's not he's talking about let's just continue oh my god I'm so sorry I'm so sorry everybody that I wouldn't have said that if I I'm 33 and I'm only I thought he was talking about I think pinching a woman's boo why would he be talking about because that's what milking a cow you know absolutely listen among his misogynistic comments usher had also written um that if you don't take a break your body will take one for you

And oh yeah, that's a very good quote. And other famous hip-hop phenomenon, little pump, little pump. I don't know what you're going to say. I just needed anyone to say what he had said, famously said, everyone thinks ulcers in your stomach are all about you're a food that you're allergic to, but ulcers aren't about what you're eating. It's about what's eating you.

So it's all this thing about being these things that you're like, this physical thing that's happening to me is totally unrelated to any stress that I'm going through. But actually they are, completely related. And there are other pieces of work called The Body Keeps the Score, as in your body, you can get over stuff that's happened to you in the past or that you're currently going through, but the body

keeps the score. Your body will always know and it will always remember. And I think both of us have been very physically affected by Usher's work. No, speak yourself, Lil Pump all the way. I still don't know why you asked me to say the rapper. Because if Usher

has one quote, I want to give that. Oh, Lil Poms got the other quote. Sorry, I feel like I just said, Lil Pump, and then you just continued. And I was like, I didn't why I've said this. He said the ulcer thing, for God's sake. Yes, I'm sorry. So I think both of us have both been very physically affected by stress and also been like, so before, in 2017, I went and did my first Edinburgh show and went to the Edinburgh festival.

And I was actually extremely content, really enjoyed making the show. I didn't, I really did not feel that I was stressed. Yeah. But nonetheless, the stress of like going to Edinburgh, putting on a show for a month, being all by yourself, you know, all of this stuff, was having a very physical effect. on me. I woke up one morning my eyes had completely swollen shut. Yeah, she'd actually been punched in the face and she met, we met up and it was about half an hour before I was like, what's happened? What's happened to those eyes? In the nicest way. And my, and I had, and then

she was like, you're all right. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, um, this hand won't come out of a fist and, um, this shoulder's sort of up and my tummy is so big, it's like a big bowling ball. You've been to specialists as well and they didn't know what they kept saying we don't know what's wrong with you They thought your liver was failing at one point And I had huge information in my liver And I had all of this stuff wrong with me

And eventually and they did all these tests on me And all of this stuff for like, you know Jaundice and others And they were like we honestly We're not saying that you look at you You're physically having a reaction And we don't know what it is And then they had to be like it's stress

When you hear it's stress You're like oh the lamest excuse in the book But really like it's stress and it affects people so much and we never, we dismiss it so easily but has such a physical effect. There was a lot of crying and I was like holding you and you were just crying

because you were very sad and you were like, I don't know what's wrong and I think it's, I think they told you it was stress at that point and you were like, I don't know what to do and I remember like giving you this big like yes well you know stress does do that and like you've got has physical symptoms

like migraines and it's different it presents itself different in everyone and then promptly I had the exact same thing the year after but I basically became fully paralyzed from here to here all around here. I had like a million MRIs and all these specialists being like, we literally don't know what's happened to your shoulder

and we think at one point I got tested for like some really scary things as I also had these like, there's like, these just lesions all of my body. Like, is it leprosy? Genuine it was like, is it though? And can we rule that out? It was really frightening.

Having done this very like, you know, big monologue and being like, no, I, of course, stress affects the body. Not me though, this is definitely a physical thing. Because when you're in your own body, like, no, this actually hurts. I'm not making this up. And my, I started, I had a therapist and she was just constantly being like, it's your brain.

And I was constantly being like, no, and then just keeping her 65 pounds. Sitting in silence, no, it's leprosy. It's leprosy, my shoulders falling off. What's the, what's the not to talk about? It's like, I'll all be like, I'm fine. I will just always not be able to lift my hand and you're up here. That's fine. Yeah.

And then after like eight months of like being like, I was like, I've now run out of like physical options. And I went to see like a pain psychologist. for after two sessions it was like oh oh I'm okay wild and I felt a little bit like it was like magic like my brain was able but I mean in saying that like last year I had basically the exact same thing but with my legs so I haven't learned anything so it's so hard to identify when it's happening to you it's so hard to identify when it's happening and because you're in so much pain or whatever's

happening to your body you're you're so quick to be like no no no no this is in stress I was doing all these like food tests on the internet that said, like, I was allergic to mutton. You sent your own hair off, didn't you? I was doing all the stuff because I was like, it's a, it's a food, it's an allergy. And you were eating a lot of mutton. Oh, live for mutton. We eat mutton.

Exactly. What a shame now. I can't eat mutton. The test came back and it was like, number one allergy, mutton. I was like, yeah, of course, well. But also, as well, we are very, I am a shepherd of yours. That is true. And you do eat your prodigious.

We were, obviously now, we know, we're talking about very specific things to us, but like, the list of symptoms for burnout or, you know, obviously it's different for everybody, but there are certain things that do come up again and again and again and there are things like basically feeling completely emotionally depleted, not being able to emotionally engage as well, which is called like depersonalization, which is what I've had the last month where I've had some bad situations going on with like the health of people around me, not Tesla, Tesla's fine. And I've been like getting all this bad news and being like, oh God, right. Okay. Well, I can't. feel anything but I'm sure I'll cry at some point and then last night my friend who I

hadn't seen for like other ages was like how you doing I just burst into tears I was like oh no oh no and so like that's I'm just using that as an example of like for ages I've been like oh no I think I'm just dealing really well with this and actually turns out no I'm disassociated from it apparently yes isolation so feeling if you've noticed that you started to maybe just like withdraw from social things we withdraw from things that you not ordinarily would charge you up have started to kind of drain you. That's a really big one because that's a very personal one because some people always sort of feel a bit drained

with social situations, for example, but some people don't. And then if that's shifted, or if you've always been a great sleeper and suddenly you're not, or like if you found, you know, just if you always, for example, like, you watch films to kind of escape and wind down or you like to binge watch Netflix or whatever, and now you can't concentrate on that anymore

and you're struggling to find things like that. And always like big changes in how you would usually unwind. And total lack of enthusiasm for something that you used to love. And now you're like, I don't give a shit. Yeah, I don't care anymore. Simply don't care. Yeah, it's also irritability. So basically, if you're being a massive bitch, that's one.

And also as well, frequent illnesses. So, you know, if you're getting colds a lot, if you're starting to feel like, as well, you can feel, which I find very interesting, like, even if you're not, somebody's, like, my shoulder's fallen off or my liver's failing. You don't even, you know, like, that sensitive distress. You can feel, like, fluy, like, achy symptoms with burnout. And it's basically, yeah, it's like you said. sorry it's like usher said it's the it's the it's your body is your brain is basically

consistently being like why aren't you stopping or why aren't you doing the thing that you need to do to help us all here and what i found very interesting is so often burnout is a situational thing so it's a job you're in or it's a you know um a life change that that's happened whether you can or can't control it it's very often something that's going on that then that's quite helpful because then you can actually, you can actually stop it. And so if you are, that's the first thing to look at. If you are feeling like overwhelmed and all of these things, the first port of call is to go,

okay, so what's in my life? What am I doing with my days? What's, like, what is it? What's the problem? And I think that's so hard to do because you just go like, oh, no, I'm fine. But that's fine. But like, because I'm constantly being, being like,

I'm not a heart surgeon or like, I'm not like, you know, on the front line of a war. So I should be fine. But it's not like, you know, there's more nuance. It's not just fine or in a war. Like there's more things going on in between, you know? A hundred percent.

I think we're so good in like modern life of being like, well, it's not a war, is it? Constantly saying it's not a war. We've been through so much this last couple of years. Everyone's been through like real trauma. And so I think it's really important to not just be like, oh, well, fatigue and illness and that weird thing I had last year that no one knew what it was. I guess that's just living, you know? It's like it's possible to be happy and healthy and okay.

You don't have to live in this stressed out. Like, you know, it's very glamourized, this like sort of coffee drinking, pill-popping, like business, business, business. Whereas like, it's not, it's not necessary. Also, as well, it's very glamourized. Or like the coffee drinking, pill-popping business, business, business. The Japanese markets are opening.

Exactly. That sort of stuff. But also what you don't see is that's the outward side. But then when someone is like a coffee-drinking pill-popping person, they've also probably got the kind of less sexy sides to the stress too. but it's just like... Well, you're the thing they're popping the pills for. Exactly. So it's this kind of like, all you see is the kind of veneer of like this, like, she's, she's so, she's got it all, you know?

Like, no, like, my friend who I always sees being incredibly good at like, she's just always like multitasking and she always has like a coffee and she's one of those people that but she also, um, we bonded because both of us basically I went through, but this is disgusting from me. This episode, I'm oversharing too much. Basically, one of the symptoms when I'm really stressed is like at this ginormous boil here. Oh my God. Absolutely.

awful. It's hideous. I'm telling you now it's worse than what you're thinking. But listen, the best thing, the best thing about it is it's exactly where, I don't even see you, it's exactly where you'd put your trouser waistband, so I can't wear trousers for like a week or tights or anything. And I, it stopped now,

but I, for ages, was just like, oh, I guess that's just live. You know, like, that's just like, I got to the point where I was like, that's just life for like, I don't know, one week of every month, I can't wear any trousers because I'm a huge boil. You know, when you say it now, that's mad. But actually at the time I was like, that is me, that's me and my, I think I named it at one point.

Yeah, it was my little friend. I used to, yeah, there was a lot of screaming going on. It's absolutely horrific. But, um, but I speak for us all when I say that's absolutely disgusting. I'm sorry, but also, but also I just thought, you know, it's good to make, maybe it make people feel better about, you know, if they've got some embarrassing things. We firmly believe, despite this sounding like we've just come to the doctors

to tell you all our weird thing. I know, so this episode is just me listing things that have happened to me. Yeah. I was being like, you know, guys, relatable, when your eyes swell up and you're what, boil on your pants, you know, we're not right, am I right? Modern life. Everyone's like, no, no, you're not right. I think there's an energy in the room and we're like,

the fuck is wrong with me. And also, who are you? What are you doing? But I think, I hope, I hope that even if you haven't got boils or bits or livers or whatever or the bit when you see if you had leprosy, you have had a physical thing, like a weird thing that I get, you know, or maybe the time you hands run a fist and you couldn't get them out of a fist. The headache.

Like migraines, they don't know what, like, like, migraines. they don't know what, like, migrates, ulcers, you know, bone issues. You know, just go bring the whole gummet here. Guys. Just like whatever you person, stomach is a classic one. Yeah. Because obviously you're, you're, when you're constantly dealing with stress, you're like, well, I'm going time for the gut, because leave that there. And your gut's like, oh, please, some time for me.

I can't deal with all this. And so I think like, whatever your personal weird thing is, I hope either you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've got it. I'm not shouting it out because it's disgusting. but I'm doing it for you Or that you're like This is like sewing the seeds of like Oh oh I wonder If that completely mystery illness I have

Might be related to what was going on outside Yes because it's helpful to have quantifiable things To know oh maybe I need to take my foot off the gas here Tell me about the stress cycle I'd love to tell you about the stress cycle So the thing about the stress cycle Is that we evolved as humans We had a really

homo sapiens we had a really long time about two million years where we didn't really change and we just quietly got on with our day and then about 30,000 years ago like culture totally changed and 30,000 years ago is like when the smartphone was invented exactly and so

30,000 years seems like massive and that's just the beginning of sort of like cave paintings and whatnot and then 10,000 years that's the beginning of like actual civilisation and the oldest stuff that we've got on record. And you think like 10,000 years, bloody hell, that's so long. But not in comparison to 2 million whole years. Two million years of like very little change

and then suddenly this like explosion of stuff happening. And so we're evolved for a very different way of living than we're currently going through. And so when we used to experience stress, back in the good old days, you had a stressor, you had a, somebody else in your tribe was violent, a lion, an eagle, another...

A weird-looking rock. looking rocks, you know, shit was happening out there, you know? What a time to be alive. So you, you had a stressor, you had, and I'm sorry, a crucial thing, we're calling, things are stresses and stress, and those are two separate things. So you are experiencing stress as a result of the stressor. So the stressor might be the weird rock or the lion or the violent member of your group or whatever, and you experience a stressor, you feel stressed, your body goes through its adrenaline, it's fight or flight, all its good stuff that it's highly trained for, you either, and then you run away and you, or you hide or you fight or you freeze or you

or you flee or whatever. You file down the rocks. Or you file it's more normal shape. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. And so either you, you imagine if the scientists were like, fight, flight, flee, file. Those are the classic. Those are that weird looking rock down.

So you either, you either filed it down and you got yourself to safety or you managed to make it away from the lion or you successfully hid and the lion went away or you outweigh. ran the lion or you killed the lion or you dealt with your scary thing in your tribe or you you killed the snake or whatever or you died those were your options so you either either way you made it out of the situation yes yeah yeah you did you didn't have to live with it as an ongoing thing and and so you come you have this scary experience you come out the other side and then this is something that we've all been through of being like oh I had a big shock and then oh okay and I shook it out and I dealt with it and I came out the other side

of that scary experience and that is called going through the tunnel of your emotion and so you go through the tunnel and then crucially you come out the other side or you die so either way you always make it out of this tunnel

and what is happening for us at the moment is in modern life is we're all just stuck in the tunnel we are not making it out of there because they aren't lions and rocks and snakes they are inexplicable deadlines and bad bosses and climate change climate change and climate change.

So we aren't making it out of there because it's relentless and it's ongoing. Right. And so it's this like we don't ever get to have this like, oh, we deal with them. And so if you've ever seen an animal go through this or if you personally have ever experienced like a physical shock or something that you went through and you maybe accident or something like that happened and you were like, and afterwards when you processed it, you were like, oh my God, my body was amazing. I felt like I sort of went on autopilot.

My body just like did all this stuff. and then when I didn't even realize I was hurt or I didn't even really understand what I'd been through until like a bit later and then I had a huge cry or then I got upset and that's your body completing the stress cycle that's your body being like we went through this thing

we went through the tunnel I needed to be totally focused on everything else didn't have time for my gut didn't have time to cry didn't have time to think about pain and then I'm out the other side oh we're safe we're good and now we get through it and now we release we cry

and you know when you have a fantastic cry and you're like oh my God I feel so much better like that part completing the stress cycle we're just not doing it anymore because the stresses are just relentless and ongoing. And we're all just stuck in those tunnels. And the longer we're in there, the more that our body is like, I'm sorry, but this is too much adrenaline for me. I cannot deal with this.

So that is what the whole concept of the book about. And we're going to get into how you actually do that and how you complete the stress cycle. But it's just such an interesting way of thinking about things of being like, we're not supposed to live in this tunnel. And so it's all about every single day, you need to complete your own stress cycle, for whatever it is you've been through, whatever your stresses are, boss, the trains, the emails, whatever it was. And so it's about two separate things. One is like, how can we fix these stresses?

Do you have to take the train? Can you quit your job? Do you have to open your emails at 9 o'clock at night? No. And then separately, the stress and how do we deal with that? Yeah, so it's like a boundary setting as well. Because I think like work is probably the most common. Obviously, live things like people around you being unwell or bereavement and things like that.

but they've got maybe almost like a longer lead time with the stress cycle so if you are suffering with like grief and things like that like yeah i mean it feels never ever never ending but it is it does it does have a kind of cyclical you know you will come out of that tunnel it would just take a long time yeah but in things like work and like constantly just always this is how i always feel i i'm i'm always like next week um when all of this is done then i can have oh no that's not happened okay next week when i come out of the tunnel Yeah, and I don't. Being able to set boundaries would probably help.

So things like, I find it really interesting about, like, how the moment I stopped replying to work, emails and WhatsApp, no matter what they are after six, and not on weekends at all, the moment people stopped sending them to me. And it was like, oh, well, why were you doing it before then? Like, you do you know what I mean? And so I, like, did the thing where I don't have any notifications

coming up on my phone at all for anything. Weirdly, Snapchat has just started. I didn't even know I had Snapchat, but apart from Snapchat, which I'm not really on. And it just keeps going, Julia's on Snapchat. I don't know anyone called Julia. Julia, no. But so things like...

Julia wants to send you some nudes on Snapchat. Well, I hope so. And right she should. Sometimes work WhatsApp and things are very important and you do need them. But also, it's amazing what happens when you just go like, oh, actually, I'm going to say no. And you don't lose any work. Like nothing.

People just fit around you, just like you've been fitting around everyone else. else is bullshit all the time. A really good example of looking at your life and going like, okay, what actually concrete changes can I make to try and give myself the release of the tunnel? I come out of the tunnel at 6pm every day and I'm like, oh cool,

what do I want to do with my life now this evening? Whereas before it would just be like, oh, like, you know, I would sort of always be sort of one eye on my phone and one eye like, you know, doing something. I don't know, like I could never fully relax. it actually took my partner noticing that to make me do it. I was like, oh, I have to do this for him.

And then you're like, no, do it for yourself. But also, it was very important, I think, to have someone. It's quite nice if you are, if you're someone like me who doesn't really, I'm not very good at, like, spotting things that I'm doing, is to have, like, you know, a flatmate or like a friend or a family member or whatever and just ask them and be like, so do you, like, what do you think? Do you think I'm overwork? Do you think I'm sort of acting, you know, what, what do you think I can do?

Because they'll see your behavior. You know, like when someone says something and it just says, sounds completely wild, but when you say, when it's for you, you're like, not me though. I should be WhatsApping at midnight. That's actually really healthy for me. Exactly. It is really, really hard often to identify your stresses and to admit to yourself like that they are stressors and not just be like, well, that's, well, that's work, isn't it?

I should just suck it up. That's what business is. Like, no, they don't have to be. They don't have to be. Like, if Janet in HR is your stressor, like you kill her. Kill her. The dark web is available. That's all I'm saying.

No, but you can deal with the options to be like, okay, what do I need to put in place in order to, and obviously you can't kill Janet and you can't leave your job, but what can, or maybe you can, but what can you put in place to be like, I will not be dealing with Janet anymore. Yes, thank you. I need a buffer. I need a Janet buffer. That's what I need. And so it's about being like, here are my list of my top 10 stresses and here is what I'm actually going to do about them rather than just fantasize about killing them. Yeah. Which is nice. Which is nice. And is self-care. Killing Janet on the dark web is self-care. one of the gross sort of phrases that I hate.

Self-care. But also, it's genuinely one of the things that medic- You, you have to live in your body. And the word care. Yeah, why do I hate it so much? How gross. What, caring for myself? Gross.

Don't want to do that. Like those things that you go, yeah, well, I don't have time for that. Like, you know, whatever that is, you know, whether that is, like, I, for example, really like reading. And that's the only thing that completely, like, gets rid of everything. And I don't think about anything else. And when I'm really struggling, I'll realize, I was like, I haven't taken any time just like, have a lovely read of my book.

And so that's my personal. But everyone will have their own one way where you're like, that's the last thing on your priority list, because you've got way more important things to do than, like, I don't know, cook a really leisurely meal for yourself in the evening or like go to see a film or, you know, whatever it is, whatever you're drinking to excess, whatever your thing is. Realising the things that you've stopped doing for yourself

that you maybe need to implement and see them as just as important as responding. emails and the work thing and the kind of the kind of hustle you know hustle yourself inwards i think a really important thing about the like because the the language when we talk about self-care and like i get very pissed off with like the government's attitude to like mental health and people being like um you know being like have a little why don't have a little meditation and you're like that's it's fuck you like uh i'm crying i'm not meditating have you tried out of meditation what about a little walk in the wood my liver's failing yeah and it's like this Light a candle, have a bath, you know, all of this stuff.

It's good. It's lovely things. But if you, and I'm just to return, I'm going to keep using this phrase because I think the completing the stress cycle and having that in your dictionary, it's something that you just say on the regular, while acknowledging that it's an outrageous thing to be saying. He's like, quietly to yourself. You just like, walk around, like, I'm completing my stress cycle. But the more that you're aware of that as a phrase of a thing that you have to do every day.

Otherwise, if you have not completed the stress cycle, you haven't come out of the tunnel, now you're just in the bath in the tunnel. Of course you're not having a good way. Of course you're not having a good time in the bar. You're like, wet. I'm wet and hot and in the tunnel. There's a candle, but it hasn't really helped. Like, no shit.

You haven't come out. You haven't come out of the tunnel. And so the stuff that we like, all this like lovely bits, you know, it's like not good enough. We haven't come out. So coming out of the tunnel, how do we complete the stress cycle? Please. Please. Tell me.

And this is, I think, I was such a good, why it's the nice phrase. And it's a nice phrase to teach your partner or your family or your housemates so that you're all sort of in it together. And if you're having a little meltdown. or you get stressed about something and you're like, excuse me, while I go and complete my stress cycle. I actually will start saying that. Yeah, it's quite fun, isn't it? It's nice to say because it's like,

it's like funny as far as it's lighthearted, but also it's real, you know? But it gives a like, a lighthearted element to something that's like, yes, this is a real thing I'm doing. And like, oh, okay, I'm going to back now because I've completed my stress cycle. So this, I think, is mind blowing. Very strong, very bold opening.

It's so high for what's coming next. I'm sitting back. Okay, I'm going to, listen. Blow my mind, babe. Please remove that from, may the jury please strike that from their records. This is mildly interesting. Okay. She, this, this neuroscientist writes that the body doesn't speak English. Okay, let's unpack.

So, the body doesn't speak English. So when you, if you are comforting a friend who's, like, been through something terrible or they've had a bad day or even a scary situation or something, and you might find yourself, being like, you're safe, you're safe now, you're safe. Or you might say to yourself like, calm down, calm down, I'm okay, I'm okay. Like, you could, you can feel yourself. That's the thing that you might say to a person or say to yourself. Yeah.

And like, this is, I'm fine now. Oh, it's done. It's done. Stop worrying. Stop worrying. Stop worrying. And you might help. Go to sleep. Go to sleep. You know, you might hug your housemate and be like, chill out, you know, or whatever. And the crucial thing is your body doesn't speak English.

So your body doesn't know what that's saying to you. And you don't have any mental connection to your body, which is why you can't be like, can you digest that better please? Or don't fart now. Stop breaking that leg. Yeah, start breaking that leg. Could you sweat less, please?

Like, there's no point speaking to your body because your body doesn't speak English. And so you have to speak to your body in the language that it can speak, which is body language. But the stress thing is about being like, it's pointless to speak to yourself, pointless to say, you're safe, you're fine, don't worry. It doesn't help, does it?

Doesn't help at all. It makes you more and more cross. I still do it all the time. Exactly because you're not completing your stress cycle. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. But you won't do it anymore because now you'll know that you have to think to yourself physically. And so that means shaking all your... Dance.

Dance. Interpretive dance. Listen, a minute of interpretive dance because if we stick ourselves back... Thank you. If you put yourself back on the savannah two million years ago and you are outrunning a lion, have you got time for an interpretive dance? No! Oh, good point.

Is the lion dead? Could we have a dance now? Yes. So your body's like, oh, we're dancing. Okay. I guess it wasn't such a big deal after all. Oh, okay. I guess we're not in a scary situation.

We appear to be dancing. Okay. Is it one of those things? Fine. You know that? This is weird, but okay, I guess I'll relax because I guess I don't need that adrenaline I just stored up because we're dancing now. So is it, questions?

Questions? Question of the floor. Yes, please. So is it like, we've gone very deep into this of dancing medical, but is it like oh God, that tweet that someone tweets like every like, I don't know, wait. Is it usher? Yeah. It's usher again.

No, it's not. It might, but. And someone always. always tweets it and it always gets like 500,000 likes. And I'm always like, I've seen this a million times. But it is good. And it's like, if you're reading this, unclench your shoulders, remove the tongue. Remove your tongue.

Remove your tongue. You don't need it anymore. Remove the tongue. You live on Twitter now. Let go. Let go. Remove your tongue from the roof of your mouth. And just, unclenched shoulders.

And just, I don't know, have a fart or whatever. And whenever I'm reading it, I was like, oh, God, someone's done this again. And I'm like, oh, I'm not. I'm like, oh God, someone's on this again. Oh, no, actually it is working. And then it's the thing as well that we used to do before we went on stage, which actually we didn't do this evening, but we should keep doing, which is where we would do this.

And if anyone would listen. Well, somebody told us once. We'd smile and do the power pose. She's smiling or you can also put your hands on your hips like a superhero. And because, and you, Stevie is sitting for those listening at home. But imagine. I think they presumed I was sitting. Sure.

Imagine like a Wonder Woman and she got her hands on her hips and her feet are planted. And then you're swimming. smile for like really smile, crazy smile for like 30 seconds because your brain doesn't know the difference between a smile and a fake smile. And so once it's doing that, your brain's like, oh, I guess we're smiling, I guess. Are we happy? Like, I guess turn the happy receptors on. That's how easy it is to talk to your body. So there's no point saying be happy. But if you are like, do a psychotic smile for 30 seconds, your brain's like, okay, I guess, I guess we're happy. Are we happy? We're going on stage. We're going to kill someone. That's a great light for happy, I guess.

Happy it is. You know, so it's like, okay, I'm feeling powerful. I'm feeling these things rather than I'm just saying these empty words to myself. So it's like, can you, can you read a book? Can you paint? Can you do something that your body is like, well, we wouldn't have time for this if I was still running, if I was still in danger. So therefore, this must be fine. And that is so true because whenever I'm really like, you know, throw on a belly, I'll be like, stressed and whatever. And the more I sit in it, the more like, no, come on, it doesn't work. But then if I have to, if I'm forced to then do something. You know, like, oh God, I've got to do it.

I don't know. I've got to do this job. Or I've got to like, even just like, I've got to get the bus and take the dog to the vet or whatever. I always feel like I'm just like distracting myself in the problem. But I'm not. My brain, yeah, is going, well, we wouldn't be taking the dog to the vet if if there was a lion about to eat us.

So then, yeah, it starts to kind of, yeah, it really does work that. It really does work. And like, and breathing, oh my God, boring. Breathing. I'm we constantly told to breathe properly. I hate it. But breathing is such an, I mean, I mean, I hate breathing. I hate breathing. I'm not a fan.

But like breathing comes up all the time of like 10 deep breaths in, 10 deep breaths out. Can you change your breathing on from your sympathetic to your parasympathetic? What's that? Sympathic is adrenaline and parisynthetic is, I guess we're fine. Oh, nice. I've always wondered what that was. The para, imagine the para, to help you remember, I mean, you don't need to remember. Parachute.

You know, like, well, this seems fine. We're safe. We're in the parachute. Oh, we got up. I was like, oh, come on, I'm jumping out of a plane. Yeah, but then it's like, oh, you're jumping out the plane. Oh, my God, we're fucking terrified. Parach shoe opens.

Hey, we're just floating jelly to the ground. It reminds me of when I first went to therapy and my therapist was like, oh, when you start getting that kind of like pacing and you start to get really in your own head and you start to panic, just like count something and I was like, I'm leaving you. Like, what are you fucking talking about?

75 pounds, I'll count those out, mate. Fuck you. Yeah, I can count. I've been counting on what, oh, I'll just count the windows. You're like, anything. Count like the windows in the room. I was like, fuck off. I've just given you 65 pounds.

I want it back. and then the next time I was like really I actually went literally from there and then had a like a meltdown of course but at that point I was like meltdowns on the daily now so much better because I count things no but but then I remember I was at the

Curzon cinema in like in near Soho and I was just like really stressed out and I was like I started counting the film post as being like this is shit and then I actually I was like oh no now it has worked it's worked and I was furious it worked and I told Tessor about it and you'd have the same thing I was like fuck you

Both of us were so angry that that worked. It's like, I'm not an idiot. Like, why would that... Because your brain goes, well, if I'm counting a window, then I think I think we're fine. I guess we're not in danger if I'm counting. And also, it's embarrassing to do that stuff. I find that easier than breathing, but the breathing thing,

I don't breathe. No, but the breathing thing I find weirdly doesn't work for me because I just can't get out of my head that's lame. But so there'll be... I can't either. There'll be things that you will be able to do. Like, you know, the counting thing works for me. The breathing thing.

It's ten star jumps while counting to ten and doing a big breath again. You wouldn't be drawing attention to yourself by a big star jump if you weren't absolutely fine. So again, your body's like, okay, again. But if also being the centre of attention stresses you out, don't do that. No, sorry.

What's that woman doing? I'll assume that you're somewhere private to do this star jump. So you're freaking out at work. Janet's being a bitch again. Oh, you're like, here's my... He's doing star jumps at Janet while staring into her eyes. Breathing is... Counting Janet.

No, you look Janet, dead in the eye. You say, excuse me, I need to complete my stress cycle. Then you go to the bathroom, lock yourself in, do 10, star jumps, count 10, and be like, okay, I'm out of the tunnel. And now I'm going back to, I'm going back to be like stressor, which is Janet, and I'm going to deal with something. Okay, this I really loved is from a professor guy called Curtis Jones. And sounds made up.

So I think he plays for Liverpool. It doesn't matter. He's a footballer. is a midfielder and professor, Curtis Jones, who talks about, this is a lovely one, if you have a partner who would like to kiss you. Oh, wouldn't we all?

Kissing somebody for six seconds or more. Turns you on. No. Again. Gives you a bonus and you can't be stressed and you've got a bonus. Sorry, sorry. Six seconds.

Yes, the whine. Six seconds is enough for your... Okay, remember, six seconds. for a kiss and 20 seconds for a hug. And this is why I think it's really nice to get this language out there with the people that you live with or the people that you're friends with and to be like, please can we complete the stress cycle and then be like, we need to hug for 20 seconds. And so, you know, sometimes, and I hope this is something that everyone has an experience

of, you're ever so upset or you're ever so stressed and somebody hugs you and they don't let go and you go from just hugging to being like, and they, and you're like, drop in, sorry, that was me for the listeners dropping into the hug. And like, your shoulders come down and you relax and you start like really hugging them. Or you've hugged a person who was ever so upset and they, they, and they, you're like unraveled in your arms you know they went from being like a statue to like letting go and they and you just held on to them and that is because you hit this 20 second mark where your body's like okay again we wouldn't be hugging if we were running so this seems fine this lion is hugging me

the lion is hugging this is a surprise anyone know what's going on it's as land that's okay i guess we'll green light on relax everyone happy for relax yes and again the kissing you're like you wouldn't kiss somebody. And again, you have, don't let's let, you have to be the kisser. Don't let someone just snog you every time you're stressed. And you'll be like, no, that's not what we agreed. So you need to kiss somebody that you like, because again, your body was like. Is anyone nearby?

I don't ask for consent first. I just say, I must complete my stress cycle. And then just snog the first person you see. Snog, Janet. That's the main. Yeah, snogging. Yeah. Yeah.

Janet, Janet, Janet. Janet, Janet. Janet. Janet, Janet. One, snog her. Snog her. Listen, who says this show isn't helpful? Nobody...

No, many people that says that. But, like, so again, it's like, you wouldn't truly kiss someone that you didn't like. Yeah, well, love them. You might be forced to, like, give them a peck on the cheek, or you might be forced to kiss them for a second, then you'd pull away. But to truly, like, kiss somebody for six seconds, your body's like, okay, again,

we're going to have to accept that we are fine. And it's about this, forcing your body. Not forcing, is the wrong word. Forcing yourself to kiss someone. Forcing the snob. Encouraging your body to, be like, huh?

Okay. Well, those things like kissing or hugging or like just, those sort of things. Do you just release, or like, exercising as well,

like release like the chemicals that you need to balance out the stress anyway. So that's kind of helpful. Although being like, just quickly just go for a run. It's like the worst. This is like, oh,

shut up. But also like if that is in the audience, being like, oh, I would do that. Do some yoga actually. There was one time last week where I was like, immediately I put on like a yoga with a yoga for Adrian?

No, it is with her. It's not, well, it's also for her as well. Yoga with Adrienne. And it was like, you know, a 10 minute thing. But I was so stressed I couldn't do it. So I was like angry. I can't do yoga, by the way.

I'm not like a yoga person. I was like, now I'll do yoga. And I was just like furiously trying to do like a downward dog. And everything was like creaking. I was going to go. Like it was just the most stressful. It was more stressful than what I was stressed about. But if you are the sort of person who's like, I will do a sun salutation,

then just drop, drop and give me 20 is what I'm saying. 20 sun salutation. Yes. For those who if you really hate exercise and the idea of being like, run, move, dance yoga. Shut the fuck up. This is genuinely a bit of chapter in the book about people who hate this.

Get in bed already, fantastic. Oh, that's good, yeah. Clench every part of your body. Oh, sorry, no, in order. So toes, knees. Clench those knees, baby. Legs, your hair. Clench your hair.

You start out of it, you do, you work upwards, you give it like five full seconds and then you release and you keep going up and best bit you think about Janet you think about a thing or a person or a thing that's really pissed you off and you like hold the anger and then you let go of the anger so if you're like I cannot think of it's like it's like course of mini stress cycle so you're like shooting through a tunnel and like that the HS one exactly what it is you're flying through that tunnel you're just completing it because your body wants to complete it wants to get rid of this adrenaline it hates adrenaline and we're just we're living with with it 24 seven where you're it's like I'm a short I'm a short I'm a short

term. I'm short term. I'm a, I'm a plastic fork and you need a silver. I don't know where this is gone. I was like, I want to be with you and I was so into it and then I was like, I think you've lost your mind. I was thinking of like, I was trying to think so quickly of something that is short term. And if you had that for the long term, it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work. And I got as far as plastic fork. Yeah, and paper straw, but that would have been weird as well as you said it. Imagine if you go over in someone's cutlery draw and it was all plastic cutlery. Right. But sorry, it's just one set. It's not every time. You've been living with the same plastic fork for a year.

Oh yeah. I fucked it. The analogy is so tenuous that my brain hurts and I think that analogy is my stress cycle. So complete it doesn't matter. No, no, you can't speak. Yeah. Oh, perfect.

No point saying it doesn't matter. Your body doesn't know. That is so true. Your body doesn't know. Okay. Yeah. So this is so I think it's just a really, really interesting way of like rethinking how you approach your body and your stress and all of this stuff of being like, oh,

there's no point talking to myself. Yes. Yes. And you can identify. burnout is to summarize identifying it. Identify the stressor. Your own. How can we deal with the stressor?

Yes. And the stressor and obviously your own, you were all multi-layed and all very, very complex and you'll have your own little flag system that your body is desperately trying to signal to you. So you have to like figure out what that is. And then don't get in the bath in the tunnel. We've said complete the stress cycle so much.

That is just my hope so that people take home the phrase complete the stress cycle and snog their partner. I hope is that. The dog people loves the other one. My hope is that they know and they're like, okay, I'm feeling this. What do I have to do? Complete the stress cycle. It's not a thing.

And this is about, the whole book is about this. The girl who went to the conservatoire from the age of eight in the music thing was taught as part of the daily routine to complete the stress cycle. Oh yeah. So like here were all these children dealing with the profound stress of like going on stage, doing their instruments, the enormous intricacy of what these children are learning.

And they all learned how to deal with stress in their bodies and complete it. And it was like second nature to her. So when she met adults when her own twin sister was like hospital. lies with her own stress problems. And again, hospital for mystery illness. And then they're like, it's stress. And you're like, fuck you. It can't be stress.

And then she's like, it's because you're not completing the stress cycle. It is. Yeah. And also the thing as well, that is why sometimes when you do like a show, not this, we're having a lovely time, but sometimes if you like a comedy show and you've got all that tension. And if it's shit, then you're so, because there's nowhere for it to go. Whereas when it's nice, you have that nice release of being like, oh, they did it.

Whereas when you don't, it just stays in your body. I suppose that's what it feels like as well. or you do like a presentation of something. You're like, I don't think that went well. And then you just feel like shit. But I couldn't release my presentation on everyone. You just kept in. It was shit.

And so you say like, I'll have a whiskey or something and take the edge off. But really it's like, could I do 10 star jumps instead? And count Janet. Can I release it in some way? May I know it's so close to the end. Yes. But may I just tell you a thing about rats. I think we're going to end on a thing on rats.

If everyone's okay with that. And then we'll come to the end. You have been so wonderful to watch. Thank you. Yes. And it's been weird. We've been saying some weird shit. We said some weird sit and you've really come on the journey with us.

You're now re-visualizing my boil. Anyway. It's just about, it's about the nature of hope. And I just really want, I think that's something that all of us are feeling in our personal and, like, bigger lives at the moment.

And I just want to give it to you to like, remember that it sounds like it's going to be a Gandhi quote. It's actually about rats. So saddle up. It's about a rat experiment in which some rats were in the control group. We're left in a little box room. in which the door, if they did a series of patterns, the door would open and they could escape.

And they were monitoring their brains. And when they managed to work it out and they escaped, oh, delicious hit of dopamine, they knew they could do something. And they got released into the wild. They got released into the wild. And they lived happy rat lives for the rest of their lives. They would then go on to a more harder task and they brought with them the confidence

that they could do the task. Oh, wow. And exactly. And so they went on to like harder and more complex things. and if you put a rat straight into the more complex one, it couldn't do it, but it had worked through and got this level of like, hey, I think I'm pretty good at stuff, actually. It tried things, and it, like, it believed in itself.

Some, well, quite. People are in the rats. Yeah, it believed in itself. Okay, so some rats were put in a water tank in which they were swimming and they couldn't get out. Okay. But it's, again, everybody survives and everybody lives a happy life. So the rats that had swum and then,

and been rescued and had not managed to do it and hadn't managed to get out. When they went into the first easy task that everybody had managed to complete, the rats that had learned that they weren't good enough and they couldn't do things and they weren't good stuff. I have come on my period so I might cry. This is very upsetting. I'm sorry, I hope it will end hopefully. But the ones who believe they couldn't do it because that was their experience in a totally separate thing.

the water to the touch so separate and yet what they brought with them was the knowledge that they weren't good and they couldn't do things and it wasn't worth trying and so then they never managed they didn't leave the room the door opened and closed and they just didn't believe that they could and then they were released into the world and they lived a happy rat life

yay yay but my point is and I hope that this is it is hopeful even though it's so sad that that's what happens to us when we in totally separate situations we take this like oh my goals are unattainable or oh it's not worth trying or oh no they can't be done whereas really like it can be done they're totally separate things and you can you can do it don't let that knowledge from previous things be what

you take with you like always have hope and always have the belief in yourself and don't ever be a sad wet rat we should end on don't ever be a sad wet rat it's lovely remember that it's a totally different thing and also the steps of it as well you can't just go from there to there like the rats built up confidence over time complete the stress cycle. Complete the stress cycle. Don't be a wet rat. Thank you so much for listening.

Really great books that you've read. Really great book that we've written. Yeah. If you liked that and you want to listen to more, get the audiobook. It's out November 15th on Audible and also other places you get audiobooks. I don't listen to them so I don't know where?

Audio book land. Audible. Well, what did I say? Audible. No, no, completely right. It was just saying that they're all on. They're all. Amazon have bought all the books, unfortunately.

Oh, yes. That's true. Yeah. And yes, we're on at Nobody Panic Pod. if you have any episode suggestions you would like us to tackle, live or otherwise, Naomi DiPanacpodcast at gmail.com

and Cambridge, you've been so nice. Thank you so much. Give us a round of applause. Thank you for listening to us. Thank you so much.