Nobody Panic - How to Deal with Jealousy (Live from Edinburgh with Jessie Cave!)

Episode Date: August 14, 2018

Stevie and Tessa talk love rivals, crippling jealousy and being fiercely competitive - live from the Edinburgh festival with the amazing Jessie Cave.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true, Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Stevie Martin. I'm Tessa Coates. Introduce yourself, Jessie. I'm Jesse Kaye. And this is coming to you live from the Edinburgh Frids.

We're at the Pleasant's Cabaret Bar. We're very excited to be here. We're very excited to have Jesse with us. We're thrilled. Thanks for coming, Jesse. Thank you for having me. I'm a long time fan of yours. I don't know where to look. No. Look directly at some point.

Just find a member of the audience and direct it directly. Dare at them. So today we're doing... how to cope with jealousy or how to do, how to be jealous. How to be a jealous, jealous woman. No, how to not be jealous, because I think, you know, obviously that's a massive topic. We've all been jealous.

If you haven't, I think you're a psychopath. Yeah. But I don't, you know, I'm not a doctor, so I can't, I can't say that. I think you should say that you asked me what I would like to talk about, and that was the first thing I said. Yeah. It was. It was.

It was. I would describe. I'm jealous. Now, we've asked the audience to, give us the most adult thing. So should we do ours first and then read the audience out? I like to get something out better because then... Yeah, all right.

Go on, Tessa, what's yours? Well, mine is that last night I went home early in an attempt to sleep and be rested. And then I washed my clothes. Then I fell asleep. I forgot they were in there. Woke up this morning. Then they'd been in the washing machine for 12 hours. Then I had to wash them again.

Now they're wet. And now they're drying at the back of the room. A bra's literally there. An old beige bra at the back of the room. And then I had a cry. It's the sound very asshole. No, it doesn't. And then I bought a breakfast.

Then I got it in a takeaway. Then I held it in the crook of my arm. Then I got beans all down myself. And then I told somebody my woes. And then I felt much better. And I think my point, I don't know what my adult bit of that was. I don't know. You washed a clothes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a lot of good intentions. And also I voiced my voice my tears out loud. That's, voicing your tears. That's the most, the end of a crying festival. Yeah, what's yours, Stevie? I was going to say, I had a big cry. I've been holding it in quite well. I've been holding it in, and so when people come up to me and be like,

how's it going? I'm like, I'm the only fine. And then I go away. And people are like, well, Stevie is very weird at this festival. And someone asked me, how are you? and I was like, I'm going to engage in this. I was like, I'm quite tired and I'd like to go home, but also having a nice time,

but also I don't know what I'm doing with my life. I had a really long chat with a really good friend, and there were loads of scary stand-up comedians because I find stand-up comedian is quite scary. And loads of them, like, descended on the group, all like, and I was like, no, I'm going to continue having this conversation. I'm not going to be deterred, and I got it all out, and then I went home last night and had a really early night.

And I did wash my clothes, and I did hang them up. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm such a dick. What's the most adult thing you've done this week, Jessie, apart from you've got two children? Well, actually, I managed to get my daughter's hair into a plat for the first time. That's really great. I'm not saying I had... I think you can all relate, of course,

because you're getting in your daughter's hair and a lot of plaids. I'm not saying I had children so I can do their hair and cute little hairstyles, but I also did. So I'm quite thrilled with that. It looks gorgeous. It feels really adult to do that. When the hair's got long enough, it just feels like, oh, she's not a baby. And it's quite scary.

Yeah. Congrats. So it makes you feel older, which is adult. Thank you for clarifying. Yes. Are you aware of, do you feel it more that now that she has longer her hair? Is that a real like, oh, she's becoming a person?

Yeah, definitely. And also because she eats like a horse, she's the same size as my older one. And so now it's really weird having these two kind of similar-sized humans around. Did you say she had a very sophisticated taste as well? She eats, like, hollets. She's more sophisticated than me. She's more sophisticated than my sister.

She's 21. Give her the wine menu when we go out. Okay, love it. Let's crack through, I don't know, some of these. We'll read them out, and then it would be nice to see who it was, so we can all be like, yes! This is great. We adopted a cat.

Oh, that's a cracker. Who adopted a cat? Yay! Name of cat? Susie. Susie, strong name for cat. Really great. Rejected from an internal job

and had a 30 minute conversation about it, brackets without crying. Yes. Slash, bought new pillows. Oh, a double one. You're a boogie bitch. Jesse, go ahead of this. Successfully executed a search and rescue mission

when a drunk man stole my dog. Who is that? Next to the catwoman. Sorry, if you got your catwoman. That's amazing. And you found him? Yes. searching the city to find my dog.

For this dog. It's only too nice ago, I'm kind of like, not over it again. Of course not. I'm so glad. It should be in a newspaper. It should be in a newspaper. How did the drunk man take the dog? I was in for about five minutes and I came outside

and I came outside and my lead was there and the dog was a man. I know. And then when, how did you get him back? I'm asking everyone, have you seen this man, have you seen this dog? seen this dog and someone eventually recognized him and I was like, that's not your dog and he gave a dog Oh my god

This is traumatising I think the most adult bit was I'd phone my mum But she wasn't anywhere close, she couldn't help But didn't Because he didn't want to worry her Because then she would have just been worried Far Away, that is very odd

I still call my mum What time is your one woman show about it on We're all there You need to do one That's insane eaten fruit and vegetables even though it's the fringe Yes

Well still have yet to do that Being sensible and come home and made dinner Instead of eating red box noodles again Very good Very good GARY GARY GARY GINSGLED for a new cheaper phone contract Oh I love a boring adult one

That's really close to my personal heart Who did that just so yeah no Yes That's what I'm talking about Haggled No I'd like a lower price please Take of responsibility for my friend's cat and flat. Lots of animal ones! This is great!

Well done. I've organised all files on laptop into appropriate folders and sub-folders. Yes. Not just called Stuff, which is what mine is. Got a new job in the big city. Which big city? Oh, which big city. This big city? Yes, London. The scariest city. This is my favourite one of all time.

I looked at some historical tomes. I'm not a historian, is that not right? How much of story? That is excellent. What were the terms on? Rather than adult. What were they on? They're like old health services archives. Wow.

Jesus Christ. That is some... You know how to party. That's really cool. Purchase brown flakes. Yes, please. Good for fibre. And I started keeping plasters in my bag.

Just in case. Oh, I do that. I do that still. I have one in my bag. It's back so I don't get that. This one makes me feel quite competitive. Went to a 6 a Palaise. class. Who did that?

Okay, okay. That's, who did that? Yeah, okay. I do, yeah, I appreciate it, but my God. Yeah, my God woman. Great. Oh yeah, more. Sorry, I've got, got my new, got my, I will,

got my new dishwasher installed. Yes! Don't cry. And rented out spare room on an Airbnb still yet to stay. Oh, why? They'll get there, they'll get there. They'll get there. Oh, your room.

Yes. Now I understand. Yes. I couldn't make it there. Excellent. Really great, all things. Give ourselves about it. Oh, nice.

You've smashed it. Well, there's some good stuff. Right. You're going to jealousy? Yeah. He was going to jealousy. Okay, Jessie, because you were so quick off the mark to suggest it,

I'm just going to ask you, have you ever experienced jealousy, obviously. Great. Bye. Talk me through it. No, I've just been thinking about a lot lately because, like earlier on, when we were talking about what time my show was on and stuff,

and I was like, I think I'm quite, I find it really difficult to be happy for other women. I love for you. I think people think that I am a really nice person. I do, I did think that. I did think that. No, I think I am a nice person, but I also experience intense and severe jealousy of other women a lot,

and it's usually romantically. I think I'm actually quite good. I think I am a really, I really like other women's work, and I'm not like... They're very supportive people, shows. But it's just not when it comes to men. I understand. So I can see where...

And I really want to be. So I'm trying really hard, but I'm finding it really difficult. And I think, I don't, I think what I'm coming to the conclusion of is that I don't think you can, I don't think it isn't, I think jealousy is just something that is innate

and I don't know how you, I don't know how you can get. I don't think you're supposed, because I was thinking about this, I don't think you're supposed to get rid of jealousy because I think it's in us for a biological reason to like push us forward. Yeah.

To make us strive for something better. So that would be, that would make sense for like career jealousy of being like, well, she's, I don't know, whatever. I can't think of any job. Or like really, or like I think it was like, hair, she's got hair.

She's got a job that I would like or she's doing something like, or I've tried to do that. and I couldn't and they've nailed it. And I think, you know, you go like, ugh. And that makes you go, hang on, let's reconsider what I'm doing and let's try and push for something like that. Yeah, work harder, but it just doesn't work for love, does it?

It doesn't work for love. Because you could be the polar opposite of, you usually are the polar opposite of what you're jealous of. And you never fit into that mould. When you say that you don't, you want to not be this person, not be jealous anymore, what is it about it that you would like to be gone? like you don't like the feeling or you just think it would be

make you a nicer person or like... I think I just would like to feel more secure in myself that I don't feel inadequate compared to other people or feel threatened by other rival. Love rivals. I always have rivals. I don't understand. I've always just had, like, I used to play tennis

and I always had like a rival that I would always lose against. That means that you're good because I think you can only have a rival if you're at a certain standard. Yes. Actually that's really true because with acting, because now I'm not really acting very much, I used to have like a rival that would always beat me to jobs,

but now I just don't get any jobs. So the idea of having a rival, again, now I'm just like, oh, I wish I had a rival. Yeah, so it does work in both ways. I think the thing about rivals, because I've had so many rivals in my life, and I think... Have you? You've never spoken to me,

unless I'm one. No. Not. Of course you are. No, because you're not my rival. Remember, remember, I will say her name. Lindsay Russell. Remember that time that girl won the Blue Peter competition.

Yes. My rival. They did this open competition for a Blue Peter presenter. Tessa was amazing. She sent him this, I genuinely think it's the best thing you've ever done. And that's a compliment role. than an insult to everything you've ever done. She did this wonderful video

to basically audition to be a blue Peter presenter and it was the most joyous, fun. She had a little baby chick in her hand. It was wonderful. Not for the whole thing, there was different bits. Different parts. There were different parts with arts and crafts. She loves arts and crafts. It loves her.

And she didn't get it and I've never felt more fucked off in my life. It was like... You'd be such a good. And then my... Unfortunately, so you had to send in the thing, obviously thousands and thousands of kids applied for it, and I didn't get it.

And then my mom kept saying, like, oh, it'll be, like, a boy or it'll be, like, someone totally different to you. Like, they won't, you know, let, you know. And then it was a girl from the next village along. Yeah. It was astounding. We were just, like, couldn't bear it, that she was so similar to me.

Yes. And she was called, I mean, I don't know her. But that's the thing, like this is so bad because she, I know for sure, is not on a podcast talking about me. But I know so much about her and I like looked up and know so much about Lindsay Russell.

And I hate that. And that's the thing about rivals is like they rarely know anything about you. Because you're not her rival. Yes, the thing. And so what you can make... They don't give a shit. But maybe we can all take hope

that like maybe we are someone's rival and we don't even know. Even more positively, Lindsay Russell. That's a positive, isn't it? the positive, but even more positive, but Lindsey Russell will have a rival, you know? What did Lindsay Russell do? What did she?

What did she? For how long is she still doing? You're still there? Oh, bitch. Yeah. Thank you. She's still there. I actually, I auditioned to be a children's presenter too, and I did my own self-tape.

And basically, that was just me shouting in my little sister on a trampoline and being like, jump! Sounds great. Jump! I didn't get it. No. We have to see these things as healthy

because actually that is healthy. Yeah, that is healthy because you'll probably have the thing where, because I have a rival. I mean, I haven't spoken about mine. She's really amazing. She doesn't even know she's my rival and I have friends with her now.

Her name's Nat Lert Seema and she's an author. And she was in this cool sketch group called Jigsaw with these two cool guys. And she'd like rock up, like in Edinburgh where everyone looks like they're about to die. She was like fake tanning and she'd wear these cute little jumps and she'd turn up. Shorts.

I remember her in shorts. Shorts. Yeah. Lots of shorts. and the like poster was her like looking incredible. Also her name was Natlet Seema. Natlet Seema. So it's like super cool.

And then and then just when I was like, okay, maybe I'll start a sketch group. She wrote a book and it was incredibly successful. And then she wrote it up. She won't stop writing books. She wrote a film. Didn't she write a really good film? She wrote a really great film. When she wrote the film, Stevie.

She wrote film, don't remember that. You didn't. Yeah, no, I didn't remember that every day of my life. And she's great and she's lovely. but yeah she is my rival but I feel from my own experience with her there's like a period of time when I just feel completely like catatonic with like well I don't want

I don't want to do anything anymore and then it makes me push because then I'm like well she will have had to have pushed so I'm going to push and I'll try and do not the same as her sure but I'll certainly like you know it gives me a barometer is that the right word at which to a milestone in which to kind of compare myself in a positive way and I think that is like why jealousy is good

again that doesn't touch with the love stuff because it does in some ways like so the fact that you become friends with her just like keep your enemies close yeah but you can't stop manipulating you can't stop manipulating but that's the problem I don't see anything positively so I don't know if this at work so I don't think it's a very uplifting podcast so we're gonna normally do you make friends with the love rivals absolutely and then we and I hate them Okay. No, I don't actually.

I just watch them from a distance creepily and stalk them. I've actually got a really good system though now. I think I have actually really improved this year. I know this is not going to be a good system. No. It's going to be weird. It's going to be manipulative.

No, no, no. I've got quite good willpower. Yeah. So I just did an embargo on looking up the person I'm jealous of. Great. And I haven't looked her up since March. That's great.

But you know how you've done it's like you have a relapse? Yes. Maybe have one relapse. That's all right. But then I bounce back. So I think and it's good because your stamina increases then. So now I don't, I have a good. I would argue that words like, I would argue that words like stamina aren't healthy in China.

I did mention I'm fiercely competitive. So I see everything in terms of like meters and miles. and... Yeah, I think if you are from, like, your tennis background and I used to swim competitively and I rode competitively and, like, if you ever...

So did I. Anything for anybody who's listening and she is a fucking bitch. That's the thing. It's like, I think everybody, we don't ever talk about it because it's not a nice, like, nice, lady-like thing,

but I think it's really deep and it's really there and the more that we can all be like, oh, we've all got it. And that's why I love your shows and that's why I like you so much because you do say it. And then everyone goes, oh.

But in my head, I'm like, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't say it. But the thing, I think what actually really hurts me the most is the thought that the person you're jealous does not even, you're not on their radar. And so I just have these fantasies about bumping into her

and what I would say. Oh, God, I'm sorry. Yeah. It was good. And what will you say? She probably wouldn't even know who I am. She wouldn't know how much has hurt me. She knows who you are.

And I'm sure she would. I hope she does. Yeah. But I just, yeah, I have these conversations in my head. And I actually think the only way to get through this is actually to see her. I agree. I also think time.

A big chat. I think you should do a full love island. Like, can you just, can we have a chat? And then like, go to the fire pit and then like talk about your feelings. It'd be a great love island to have all these rivals on it together. Just women. It's ex on the beach. Women have all been hurt by.

But have you not seen X on the beach? That's what happens. The X comes out of the water. And then. As if. They've been there the whole time in like a tank. And then there was one amazing episode where I think, I hope I haven't made this up,

they just popped out of a cupboard. And it's edited like cheese dream. You're like, oh, you feel like you're having an attack of something. And then everyone loses their mind because the ex is there. It's really great. But that normalises it in a way

because they're all so mad. Oh my God, I'm having a repressed memory of surfacing. Oh my God. In my first year at university, there was this boy I really fancied and we had like a bit of a thing for like a day. And then I obviously thought about it for months afterwards. And then he had this like, and then he got back together

with his girlfriend from home. She came up to stay. And then I was in stood in the lunch queue. And he came in with her and was like, oh, Tessa, this is Susie. And that wasn't her name. So it's anyone but Susie. Okay.

This is Susie. And she said, oh my God, I've heard so much about you, to which I went. What? Oh, no, sorry, wait. He's, okay, wait. Now a sidebar, I'd seen this in a film So it's a fucking weird thing of me to do

But so she says to me Gestering to the boy Oh, he's told me so much about you To which I went, oh, he told me you were dead That is insane That's insane But that's what it makes us feel like Yeah, we are

It makes us feel like that Jealousy makes us feel insane But the problem is now social media Has enabled these jealousies To be part of your daily like looking at things. Yes, and also then you make connections. You're daily looking at things.

And then you make connections. Because as we are, we are talking about love jealousy. That is what we're talking about. We're talking about all kinds of jealousy. Yes, but I think we, the focus, I think now, I want to get to the bottom of how we can work through this sort of jealousy. But I think, yeah, social media has meant that,

so I, an ex of my, one of my many boyfriends that I have, just keeping it vague, so nobody listening to. I'm saying, I've been, not jealous, but just like really like, well, you're so much better, like consistently. And so I would go on social media, see that, I don't know, she wants to use the same words that he used once, be like, they use the same words, they were kind of,

you'd be like, you make up stories in your head. And I feel like it's the helpful jealousy of the career bleeding in to other areas of your life. And I genuinely don't think that love jealousy is helpful. Because I think what would happen, I'm trying to, this is a question for you, I guess. It sounds like cavewoman times, you know about that. You were there.

I was there. Incredibly old. Cave woman evolutionary times, I guess you'd be fighting over the best lover and you'd want to naturally see off all the other people so that you could give birth to their child, I guess.

So I guess we do have to have an element of it. But then now our society has meant that it's like with social media. It's now just totally unhealthy and our brains are not able to cope with that amount of oh they're right there. Yeah, because we're like unbelievably empathetic. And so when we like

know other people and we like it's like in the olden days you only knew about 10 people and then they died and you just married all of them and you'd marry them all and then everyone was dead like it wasn't a problem

and also when you heard the stories about like beautiful princesses or like kings and kings like they were just like you know the minstrels just strumming them on the on the loot or whatever and you know

I regret saying the you know like the jester told the stories and we all just imagined what these people looked like but it's always from far away weren't they? land far away. Yeah, they were just imaginary princesses

who were impossibly beautiful. We don't actually have to look at them. And now we're actually physically looking at all the movie stars and all the people and all these these imaginary people. And we've lived in a time now that no one has ever had to live in before where we feel we know people that we don't actually know. This has never, ever

happened before to humans. And so we don't know what to do with ourselves because people think they know the Kardashians, for example. Because you are living their life so intensely. I feel I'm good friends with Chrissy Teagan. because I agree, watch her Instagram so much, you know. Like, I feel like I'm that invested in these people's lives

and they don't know who you are. And so our brains are like, brains don't know. Brains can't disassociate that idea that they're actually our friends or we're actually, you know. But also the version that they're portraying on social media isn't actually them. No, of course. It's a way better version of them.

And we also, that feeds the whole jealousy thing. Again, we all know this, but like you're looking at, of course, if you look at the best parts of everyone, you'd be jealous of everyone because everyone's got some great parts about them. But with love stuff and with jealous of and with career stuff as well especially, people only put the stuff like, oh, got a great new job, I've got this cool new part, oh look, I look really hot. No one's like, I look like shit, my career is shit, and I'm a horrible person.

Which I think they should do more of. Exactly. I really want to push for that. I think the only way that I am trying to move on with this kind of feeling at moment is to be completely self-sufficient, which again isn't necessarily the healthiest thing to be. I think to want to be self-sufficient, but I think it's quite impossible

to be totally self-sufficient. I think you do need things and people sometimes. So I've gone, on one hand, trying to be that kind of in control of absolutely everything in my life and my children and everything. And realising actually that's not that I won't be able to do everything I want to do.

Well, one of the big things that kept coming up when I was like looking at jealousy and how to get over it is accepting that you are jealous, which I think you've smashed, so that's good. And also, but also, like, I think what you haven't done is been like, I don't know, maybe you have, but feel okay about being jealous. Rather than being like, oh, I'm so jealous, how can I get this out of me? This is gross.

Okay, I'm going to do this. That will hopefully stop the jealousy. I don't think we can ever not be jealous. And I think that's like, it's just too big an ask to be like, right, I'm just not going to be jealous of somebody who, I imagine, has had a thing with someone. And then you're like, you can't stop thinking about that. And that's not your fault. So trying to come up with different strategies is a great way of trying to, because that's the only way you're going to get through it. Time, it's just like the same, I guess, with like a breakup as me.

Anything to do with anything is time just eradicates it. Time and finding strategies that will make you feel like you are in control of something that you're just by definition you're not in control of because it's someone that you can't control. So it sounds that you are actually doing quite healthy things. Yeah, no, I think I am. I just, it just would be nice to not experience, like, severe rage and sometimes. But, no, I think, I, no, I think I'm, I am, I think I'm okay. Do you think having a chat would help? Because that helped with my jealousy thing.

I had a chat with the person that I was quite a jealous. Did you? Yeah. Oh my God. And, and it was really nice. It was really like, but I didn't, obviously, like, I'm really jealous. I was just like, it's a really weird situation that we're both in, because I sort of see her a bit and, you know, whatever.

And it was, she's really nice. and I'm really nice, and we just had a nice time. And I was like, great, okay, bye. I mean, it didn't stop it, but it certainly lessened it because she was no longer this goddess of light and I'm just made of shit. It was like, oh, we're just two people

just living our lives, you know? I think also if you address that it's, you sometimes displace your feeling of anxiety onto another thing, so maybe I'm actually upset or anxious about another area of my life and I'm putting it all onto her. Of course.

It's not. It's about my own relationship and I feel that there's flaws in that. So I'm thinking, well, I can blame someone for this. Of course, because it's so much easier. Yeah, so actually if I work on being okay without a relationship and being self-sufficient in as many ways as possible. So that I don't need any man or whoever, then I won't get so upset by certain people that maybe have, endangered my happiness at some point.

Yeah, I mean that's, you sound unbelievably healthy about it. I mean, yeah, like at the start you didn't. Yeah, yeah. You're quite worried, aren't you? A bit, yeah, sure. I think I am okay. I just, yeah, I just, I, I'm, I think also it's quite addictive being jealous. Oh, big time.

Yeah, because once you, especially in this job, which is so messed up, yeah, you, you thrive on these highs and lows, and you just get used to that being the norm, and it's not really. Yeah, yeah, the side-dial. So you get used to being kind of insanely jealous of somebody in their career or romantically.

And then you get used to kind of like periods of just nothing. And then, so yeah, maybe that's part to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think like the competitive thing, like we, you seem like you've done such a good job of like compartmentalising and being like, let me push this energy into this. And I think we're... Yeah, I wrote a show about it.

Yeah, exactly. As she comes to see it, I am absolutely fucked. But that's fine. Yeah, it's only on for quite a while. But again, it's fine. I haven't said a name, so I can't get sued. And actually, I'm really nice about her. But you still maintain she doesn't know who you are.

She doesn't. She really does. She's so cool. No, oh my God, you've got to go and talk to her. Yeah, she's not. insanity. You've got to stop thinking. I've actually just not. She's absolutely just a very like, no. She's cool.

She's really cool. Cool. Okay, so we've got her here today. Imagine. I'm so sad we didn't imagine. I would pay cash money for that experience. It's just like I could not be more uncool in this

situation of like talking about her vitally. Like how? I actually would argue it's actually quite cool because I think it's very easy to not talk about your feelings, not talk about your emotions, not talk about anything. Whenever we do the podcast and I, I don't know what's happened, but the last few months,

I've just suddenly found myself just telling quite deep anecdotes. And Tess is normally the one that does the anecdotes, and I normally go, great, moving on, tweet us, and I've gone boiling hard, and then afterwards to be like, I can't, I can't keep that in. I'm like, no, you should. And I think it's actually really hard to do that, and you do that so easily, naturally and well,

that you're immediately, everyone in this room, relates to that, even if they're not relating to the exact specifics, you just relate to that. And I think it's actually a really strong thing to do. Yeah, but the problem is, and this is probably why I've spent quite a lot of time crying this festival, is because you... It's because it means that I'm so, like, down, disintegrated down to the ground in terms of power. Right. They have, like, minus power.

It's up to you to have your own power. Yeah, I know. No. It is. Sorry. I'm going absolutely. No, it's not. It's just not.

So I know it is, but because I'm so open about, like, absolutely everything in my life, it means that I'm easily attacked. Yeah, yes. You've left yourself open and vulnerable. So I need to get some armour. Yes. Power armor. I don't think you need power armor.

I think, like, going back and being like, okay, where does this come from inside all of us? Because we're obviously, like, unbelievably competitive with each other. Yeah. And, yes. And, like, you know, we've obviously gone through, like, school and, been a teenager in which we were told really clearly like you want to be picked and you want to get chosen and you want to be like

the girl that everyone likes and you want to be like in the boys gang and you like want to be that girl and I mean it sounds like you're telling us about myself oh it's true yeah and like I just think not to bring it back to Love Island again but like when you have an ex

the girls are all so nice to each other until either there is an imbalance of the number of boys or another girl comes in and suddenly they go from like blah blah blah to be like this and like they become like oh now our numbers are shifted and now like everybody's just like you can see these like heckles go up and everyone's like now they've got something to play for and like this instinct of like oh that's sort of like one cannot live while the other survives like we've got this real like there is space for everyone here I think that's what she was writing about I think and that's actually something

that I've tried to write about is that I don't resent the person I'm I'm jealous of the one person or the many people I've been jealous of in the past. And in my situation, which is, I guess, like, a little bit unique in the fact that I have two children with a guy that I'm not with anymore. Like, I don't resent any newcomers into the romantic situation because I know if I was single and wanting to be with the person that I want to be with. would fight, I would fight anyone to get to, to get to that love. And I know that that's, that's not necessarily, I mean, I would never go for someone that wasn't available. I would never do that. Yeah. But if I, if I, if I saw a, went back to a guy's flat and I saw photos of him with his children on the wall, I wouldn't be like, well, I should

leave. Yeah, of course not. I wouldn't, I would be like, well, that's, he's really cute. I'm, I want to make some more cute kids with him. Yeah. And that's what I'm not, I'm not, so I'm trying to be fair and think about how I would deal with the situation, which it's a bit more tricky because of children. Of course it is, yeah. But I know that I, I'm not at all angry at any of these love rivals coming into situation because I know that if I, if I didn't have children and I wanted to be with the person who had children, yes.

I would be, I would be doing that too. Do the same thing, yeah. So, yeah, so it's, I'm trying to be open to that. That's a good tip as well. It's quite difficult when you, yeah, when you have two children. Yeah, I mean, obviously. But, yeah, I... Oh, it's just really hard.

But do you have any... Having gone through it, I mean, I think... But do you have any advice of somebody that's going through a very similar thing to you? Do you think you should just get it all out, like, you're doing? Do you think you should, like, channel it in a creative way, like, you're doing? Yeah, we're just really lucky to be able to be able to write about it and stuff. I feel like I have had such a great therapy from writing this show.

But anyone can write. about stuff. If you know, if you know, if you know, you can write it in a diary, you can talk to people about it, you can, I don't know, do a podcast about it. You can, like, there's lots of different ways that people can get it out. I just, I don't know how I would, I don't know what I would advise because I, I can only, I don't know what I would do, actually. If I didn't, if I wasn't able to write about it or Instagram about it, I don't know what I'm. I think you're saying your, your doodles are from life experience, I could never guess. Oh my, yeah, a little bit.

Yeah, I think a great thing is to talk about it. But then again, I've never had therapy, so I don't know if, like, I don't know, maybe I should have therapy. Maybe therapy is a good advice, but that's sort of, that's boring advice, isn't it? Get therapy. It's the advice for everything, is it. Yeah, get therapy. I just think like getting anything out and vocalized and talking about something, and either channeling that or just be able to talk about it is so unbelievably freeing.

And I think, like, this is in no way about Me Too, but I think that, like, me too, the use of that phrase, was less about like, oh, I have a story to tell as well so much as like, oh, me too. Like, I would like to say, I share this with you. I also have something to join in. It's like, oh, and then someone being like, oh my God, me as well. You're like, oh, oh, God, okay, like this thing I've been carrying. I'm not alone.

I'm not alone, you know. It's about being like, oh, look, like everybody is having the same sort of thing. And when I was going through kind of a really difficult breakup and was alone largely with the babies, that's the only thing that made me feel better, which was Instagram, and it sounds so sad, but it's true. And it really, when I saw people commenting under my things,

like, oh, I feel like that too, or it just made me feel so much better. Because that was the only access I had at night on my own to, I couldn't talk to anyone, really. So it was the only thing I had to communicate how I feel and share it, and it just made me feel so much better. Yeah, I have bawled my eyes out at, like, Humans of New York posts,

like someone's talked about like a breakup or being with someone who actually wasn't very good to them and then getting out of that relationship and realizing what a good relationship is and all the comments underneath they're like, girl, you're so good getting out of there. And you're like, yes, I am. And I am a princess. Just like having, it's like sort of your own experience like relayed back to you and having like somebody acknowledge it and share it. And you're like, oh God. Okay. Yeah. I think that's what like you were saying before about the social media thing about you being friends with Krista Tegan. That's like the perfect example of us just consistently trying to make connections all the time with people. And that's why we feel alone. And that's why when we can't make those connections, we need to make them somewhere else.

Because we need to make them by hook or by crook. But that's why I love your Instagram so much because I feel like you were saying earlier that no one really puts themselves as as they are onto the internet. But I think you do. Oh, that's very kind. You don't post as much, but your Instagram is brilliant too. sorry. Please, don't worry, I was in no way jealous. I didn't feel like, I felt nothing. Steve, you can't have stories, they're so brilliant.

They're so funny. They're so funny. And they are like really, like, they're humble. That comes, oh my God, but I am so humble. They're so real. And I'm real. And what my point is, that it just makes me feel, it makes me feel better when I see other people being actually honest on Instagram. Yes, that is something I think we could advise. If everyone was a bit more honest online.

Just a little bit. would make our lives a bit easier. I agree, because I think that came from, not like it was not in a cynical, like, I'm going to be real on that Instagram. It was in a place of like, I just, a lot of, because I used to be a journalist and a lot of, um,

the female journalist crew, uh, sort of, now the boundaries blurred with like influences and stuff. So they all just, it's just so perfect and it's so, they're so, they look so wealthy and perfect. And they're beautiful houses and that's so, you know, and I just, I got really down about Instagram. And I think that was the only reason I did it

because it was like, well, I don't want to perpetuate this because if I could I could face tune and I could like But then... What is face tune? Oh my God. So someone showed it to me the other day. You can basically, I did it so you can make like a little pinhead which is fun. Which I don't think is how you're supposed to be used.

But you basically make yourself thinner. You can make yourself like just look better. And it's so someone showed it to me as like a oh look this is great because there was a photo that I'd taken and it was from like two in the morning

and I had this, when I get, when I smile a lot I get like a vein on my forehead that just shows I'm really smiling and I just put it up, I hadn't even really noticed it and my friend was like oh you should face tune out that vein and I was like now I hate my vein and I think those things about face tuning

make you, it's sort of a bit like plastic surgery as well it makes you focus on how broken and shit you were before and how you should be able to fix things and you were something to be fixed rather than you've got a vein in your forehead, like, fine. That shows I have blood. We're all being honest.

That's a massive boon. Julia Roberts has a vein. Yeah, Julia Roberts has a vein. Julia Roberts has a vein. I can't see your vein. No, because I'm not really smiling. You're miserable, right? I'm miserable.

It's cold. Yeah, it's very cold. But yeah, and so, yeah, face you. And all of those things, I think, are very slowly, we're all slowly moving towards quite a bad place, which is that it's just. is it's harboring jealousy and you can be jealous now

I was never a jealous person in school or like basically before social media and then I became someone who was just scrown and being like oh fuck I'm so poor I'm fat and I also like I've just I've got a big vein I've got a fat vein

and it's so weird the things that you can be jealous about when you didn't even realise you were yeah and it's and it's so the the the holes the insecurity holes I've got into on Instagram are never intended.

Yeah. Always something just pops up on your feed. And it's just that has the power to just make you crumble. Yes. And that's the same fault. You need to take power. So you need to not be a, I want to be stronger. So when that does happen and that does pop up, I'm okay.

But I don't know how really. That's just, that is just doing, keep doing what you're doing and be aware of it. Mute. Mute. Mute. Mute. Mute. Muting and unfollow.

I have a lot of really good friends of mine I've had to mute and unfollow just because I'd be killing all the friends oh my god I do sound like an absolute like a minute they're all so jealous of these ways have to stop. You're jealous of me?

I'm veryfully jealous of them but not I'd never like you know like unfriend somebody or something it's just in terms of just creating curating my Instagram feed I talk about a lot so now my Instagram feed is just dogs tortoises and and the odd meme

and I think that's like that's the trick because now I go on Instagram and it's funny and it's cute rather than it's like all the things that I'm not, which I think is... I look at pictures of your babies relentlessly. Yes, I do as well. They lighten my day.

That's adorable. What's that face? Oh no, no, I just feel really bad that I just Instagram their souls. But I also was thinking, but I want to do it more. They make me so happy because they're so pure. Yeah, they really are.

And they're so gorgeous. Yeah, it's a really difficult thing to decide how much you show of them online, but I think I'm going now full face. I was kind of reluctant for a long time, and I only showed the back of their heads, but now I'm kind of like creeping into a profile and eventually just the full face. But one out once there was like a very cute picture of your baby, and then it said, this is the third pair of trousers she's weed in today. I mean, I'm like, yeah, so you've exactly smashed the tone.

We are nearly at the end I think they're like my like take rhymes are like go and talk to your rival like go and yeah chat have a chat everyone is just a person who has their own failings and their own things

and like remember that like you're somebody's rival which shouldn't be that good I think that's thrilling I'm thrilled I can't wait till they have to come and talk to me and I'm gonna be so humble and good when they do

and be like oh this Don't be jealous. Stop. Oh, God. Oh, God. Don't be jealous. I'm going to have to do my show today in wet clothes. Also, try and get it out, an outlet of some way.

Obviously, you know, Jesse, you can write a show about it. But, I mean, I'm doing a show that's nothing to do with anything to do with my own life. But it was certainly an outlet for me for certain things. And then people avoid it. I think just to have something that is yours and, you know, to be continuing to make something and like... You can be in control. you're totally in control of. And so, like, away from your job, whatever your job is, away from your family or whatever,

like, you know, they'll be like, this is mine and nobody can touch it. And no matter what that thing is. And it can't affect your happiness. Yeah, only in a positive way. Exactly. Like, you just work on this thing or improve or learn a skill or something that's just totally for you. And no one can take it away from you and no one can, you know. And also accepting that jealousy is the thing and it's fine and everyone's jealous.

Jesse talks about it more openly than most. But, like, we are all equally. we wouldn't feel so like, ah, I'm going to be like, ah, this horrible feeling. I shouldn't have it. Be like, of course you have it. It's there. So you'd be embarrassed that it is and just be able to like channel it and... Rock it, babe.

And try and make it into a thing that can spur you on. That's how all the podcast should end. No, it will end like this. And thank you so much to Jesse Kay. Thank you. And her show's on at 2. 30. At the stand 2 in Edinburgh.

Stand 4. I'm so sorry, the stand 4. So I'm 24. Go and watch it. Tweet us at Nobody PanicPanick. Or at Tessacote. At Desicotech? At Jessie Cave, I presume.

Blue Tick. At Stevie M. Just a little hint of the jealousy there. Oh, big time. Big time. Oh, Blue Tick. I didn't want one. At Stiefm.

BES is a 5. And also email us if you have any ideas for upcoming podcasts. Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com. Yeah. This was suggested by Jesse, but it was one that a lot of people have written in about. Yes.

Yeah. It was. A lot of jealous bitch as Albert. Yeah. And thank you so much to our lovely audience who've come. Thank you so much.