Nobody Panic - How To Deal With Online Harassment

Episode Date: June 5, 2018

Should you reply to mean comments online or try and ignore them? Tessa and Stevie talk to Gina Martin who, during her highly public campaign to make upskirting a sexual offence, has become an expert in dealing with internet rudeness. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Welcome to the podcast. Do nobody panic with me, Stevie Martin.

And me, Tessa Coates. And this week, we're talking about online harassment and how great it is. Just kidding. Hala. How to deal with it, because it's not great. Loll. Loll. Sartl.

We're talking trolling. We're talking cyberbullying. We're talking American. We're talking the British. We're talking... The empire? We're talking about the empire, for God's sake. As I've always wanted to do.

Finally! Finally, this podcast is bleeding. Can we make this very clear that that's not what we're talking about? No, it's not about that. I think it's about, you know, even if you're, if you're super famous, you've definitely experienced it from, you know, real, hardcore, awful stuff. If you're somebody putting out a controversial point of view, you've definitely experienced it. You may have just done one tweet that did sort of okay. That could attract him.

And once it passes over a threshold, statistically income people who don't like it and want to make a scene. And then even if you aren't on Twitter or you aren't on thing, you've definitely, you know, you've maybe had people being mean or on Facebook. On Facebook and just on the internet. Oh my God. Maybe a forum. I've just remembered. Oh, no. I'm having a repressed memory.

Oh, no. It's about Bebo. Please tell me that you bullied someone. That'll be a really great twist. Ironically, yes. No. It wasn't actually me, though. So my profile, somebody made one for me at school called Bebo.

No, someone made me a profile on Bebo called FitSetsy Tessa. FitSexy Tessa. Yeah, and my picture was a picture, by the way, is like an old Facebook if you were born beyond the 18s. Yeah, it was a sort of medieval Facebook. It was called FitzSetsi Tessa. My picture was a picture of Trotsky. And there was just like various quizzes on it. This wasn't the best sort of harassment ever.

Yeah, so someone had made it for me and I was like, this feels mean. So they'd be like helping me out. Yeah, that's not nice. Yeah. And then, I mean, it wasn't, that that bit wasn't the bullying bit. But then everybody at our school and several neighboring schools, inexplicably had the password. So it became, old Trotsky,

became this like, I guess it's because you wanted to go in, see what everyone was doing, but not know that you'd, not show that you'd been online. Right, okay. And then people were just using it as that as like a voyager,

a voyeuristic thing just to see what other people were doing. A voyager. Suddenly people started being mean to other people. And then people would come back. And so I was being, like, people would be like,

you were technically bullying people, but it was actually an entire town. But then I was, yeah, the whole town was bullying the whole town, but it looked like it was you. And it looked like it was all me. Fit sexy Tessa. Fitsyn says with a picture of Trotsky was bullying the town. Then like people would be like, I don't even know you, but from your picture like you obviously aren't a model.

And I, so I'd have to work, you couldn't see the message. So you had to sort of work backwards and piece together what my bullying Trotsky's bullying might have been. My God. Anyway, so I imagine like every kid in school has probably had some kind of, even if it's just a misconstrued. It may not be as relatable as yours, say. But perhaps someone. Something that was meant as a joke that's sort of been badly in tabred. Yeah, because I actually took that the idea, if I cast my mind back to being a 14-year-old,

the idea of someone setting up a Bebo or a Myspace or a Facebook called Fit Sexy Stevie, I'd immediately take that as being mean to me because I'm not. I would have been destroyed just by that. So the fact that you were like, great, that wasn't the bad part. That was actually, if anything, excellent. It was Trotsky that really got under my nose. No, no, the Trotsky was obviously the best bit because we were wildly into Russian. Communism.

Yeah, just bought the empire. Get it back. No, we were just, we were very into, like, a very obscure Russian history. Of course. We just thought it was... Like all schools. Like all schools. Like all.

I mean, we were all obsessed with trying to get one cigarette around the back of one bike. No, no, no. And you were all so interested in, you know, imperial Russia. Yeah. It was good stuff. I did a Russian A-level, and so we, you know, we just... I did an A-level and one cigarette. That's probably why it might have worked.

But before we go into the podcast, I'd like to introduce our guest today who's had to move her microphone because she keeps snort laughing down it. It is the amazing Gina Martin, all the relations to me. But we've got her on because Gina is my sister. And also, Gina's been campaigning to make upskating a sexual offence,

which it is. and she's also a freelance writer and basically all-round cool guy all-round cool guy but it's fair to say that with great power comes great online harassment. Oh my god, yeah so much. I mean you'd think that everyone would be on board with the idea

that taking photos up a woman's skirt when she doesn't know of her pants or whatever is a bad thing. Turns out actually a great laugh apparently for like some people you're going to be helping us with that but before we do that what adult thing have you done this week and yes you're going first.

Oh, no. So this week I did a really good thing, which was I never get paid on time for freelance work, which I understand. So it's always like 60 days, 90 days for five years. And I did this thing where every time I get an invoice, no, I went back through all my invoices. And then I set alarms from the day I invoice for 30 days in advance. So good. So on the day I'll be like, oh, they haven't paid me it. And then I can email.

That's so good. I'm really proud of myself. And you know what's awful about that is that I'm three years older than you and I only figured out how to do that two months ago. So you are so ahead. Um, I will go next. I have for a long time been like, I don't think that happy eggs are happy. Right.

Happy eggs. Oh, the egg. The eggs, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, I remember finding out that free range eggs weren't happy either. But then being like, but the happy eggs have to be. Because they've got the word happy in it. You can't misrepresent an egg that much. Surely you can.

And I'm going to talk about why they're not happy because we've all got to go through our day and not be sad about chickens. But it's quite bad. If you want to know, have a Google. If not, that's okay. Live your life. No, judging from me.

You just want to read the small print on the eggs. No, because it doesn't say it. It does. Turns in conditions apply. It does actually, on the back of the boxes, it tells you that even though it tries to be as wishy-washy as possible, it does say that in order to be a happy egg,

they need to only have spent this short amount of time in the nice place. And so then they can just go there But I have read those and been like, well, that's cool. They had a bit of time, but they actually, the stuff they do to the chicken is not good. And I don't think they put that on the box. Sure, sure, sure. So if you really want to give yourself a kick up your own ass, read the Google.

And then if you want like a gentle boot up the ass, read the back of the box. Either way, I was like, and now I can't eat eggs unless I get a chicken. I live in London, there's no chickens. And a fox would eat them. And I'm not having a chicken. So I've found an egg company that is fully free, free range and it's it's like two pound 39 for six eggs which is more expensive than your average egg box but it's not as expensive as I thought it was going to be and it's in a shot

it's like in a whole foods the whitest place in the world but still there's like one that's quite far from my house but if I want eggs that's where I'm going to have to go now so now I go there because that is the place I get eggs from rather than being like oh bollocks to it I'll just like get the Tesco ones because I actually found that I just I found it quite difficult to stomach it and now when people say, oh, so are you vegan? I don't go, yeah, but not like for ethical reasons. It's just like, because I want to appear cool.

I go, yes, and then I'm silent. Good for you. Thank you. I don't think everyone should be vegan. I'm just saying like, that's my time. You say like £2.40 is expensive for six eggs. Or is that one egg? Six eggs.

Yeah. Not really. No. What's your, I think so too. Mine is that I am going on holiday and I booked the flights without any supervision. That is good. I know. I know.

And I didn't freak out about it. I mean, I did. And I had to like check. I just looked at that date so many times and the number. And I sort of said to somebody, someone was like, how are you doing? And I was like,

are you asking me because my neck looks really tense? And they were like, yeah, a bit. Yeah, I am. Yeah. And I was like, I'm just so nervous. Rather than feeling excited, I just feel so panicky. And like, but also on top of the panicky

and how anxious I feel about, you know, getting it wrong or showing up without my passport or all of that stuff about travel. yourself I also feel really stupid for having it like I yes why can't I just casually book a plane why can't I just be somebody who can't book a plane for God's sake I'm very tired why can't I just do that like yeah I feel so stupid on top of it and then they were like because you're worried you're gonna book a plane and yeah I'm worried about that but also

like I was so like oh this is so everyone else is doing it no problem people are just booking flights all over the shop but you remember the first time you ever booked train tickets and it felt the same it was like oh the train but what if I don't get the connection and now it's like like absolutely fine. It's just a repetition thing, isn't it? The more you do anything, the easier it is. And you shouldn't ever feel stupid for how you react to anything, really, I think. Yes, 100%. Everybody's panicking and everyone wants to hold their passport like this. Yes. And like, like a bumbug around your neck. Yeah, and then lie awake all night, just panicking about missing the alarm or whatever. Yeah, I once went to Australia and put the wrong

flight, like a really bad flight with a 15 hour layer of it, and then had to sleep behind a vending machine for 14 hours. So like, and, and, On Facebook, I'd just like gone to Australia and everyone was like, oh, she's with the kangaroos and she'd have a good time. But, like, actually, I slept behind a bending machine for 14 hours. You know what I mean? Like, everyone's fucking up and being worried and doing... Yeah.

A lot of people wouldn't say... Well, you probably wouldn't say, like, today if I was just like, hey, Tess, even like, ha, I was really stressed about booking plane tickets. You probably wouldn't come up. So no one knows the other people stressed about it. You just see them go on holiday and it looks great. Yeah. You're right. You're so right.

We don't share enough. We don't share enough. Which is why this podcast is so important. I actually... I once saved 20 pounds on two different flights. I've got the cheaper one. Slept in Mexico airport for three days. I remember that.

Right? You just kept sending me pictures of your ankles that were expanding. My ankles were so fat. Fat ankles in Mexico. I just layover flight. Oh my God, yeah. That was so bad. They got...

Talking of planes. What about the internet? Am I right? Some people aren't nice on it. That's what I'm saying. Oh, yes. I've actually never been... I've never really had any online harassment because I don't think I've done anything of note that would require it.

Yeah, touch some wood though. Yeah, sure, there we go. We're sat in a wooden room. That was really easy. And you didn't touch any of it. And I'm wearing wood. Even if you've never been, I mean, trolled is different to online harassment, but we'll talk about both. But if you've never experienced it, you have experienced it in the sense that you've read about it.

You've seen people you know, have experiences it. also you've just like, I've got a friend who's actually an amazing comedian called Sophie Hagan who's just wonderful and she does a lot of like body positive, fat positive tweeting and she kind of campaigns for a lot of like equality issues and in a really great and very direct way and she said something on a WhatsApp group and I was like oh god so she's having a she's getting a lot of like trolling and I went on her Twitter and everything she says if you scroll far enough down someone will say something absolutely horrific to her and And she's so cool about it in the sense that she's just like,

that's just what happens. Guys, don't worry. And actually, a lot of her Instagram stories are her being like, guys, don't worry, you don't need to message me asking if I'm okay. This is my life. It's absolutely fine. And no matter how fine you're saying you are, it's so sad for me. It can't be nice.

You have to get to that point. Like, there will have been a point where it wasn't okay. So tell us about, you've obviously had a lot of online harassment in the last year. What sort of form does it take? So Gene has also been all over the news and she's been on all over on lots of different. Very public, hasn't it? Yeah. It's been really big and it's been really public interest because obviously I think people

just shocked that it wasn't already. So the imagination it's captured of people, the amount of people have been talking about has been massive. But with that just comes so many people who just don't understand why I'm doing it. And that's fine because that just shows you and need to do it more, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like all these people are like, why is it bad? And you're like, well, that's why I'm doing it because you don't get it.

but yeah when you like because I do a lot of of media bits that go out on social so it's like oh videos and stuff for BBC 3 or look on 4 and they always put my interviews up because it's like regular woman is trying to change law that's the story right

and so then I become target very easily on social media whenever you're on TV or when you're doing a radio thing I either watch it live or I'll watch it like later but I have had to stop looking on Twitter so like when you did this morning like the comments were

overwhelmingly positive on on Twitter. But the five that weren't made me so furious I didn't know what to do with myself. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know how you cope with that. And that's just one spot you did.

So, yeah, so you've had to deal with quite a lot. What sort of stuff do you have to? Okay. So I wrote some down. Okay. Yeah, I had a really fun day at work. I was not upset afterwards.

So, Stefan said, stop crying and get you clam out your whore. Neil said, oh, shut up. So sorry. And also, sorry, there's a theme that I wear massive knickers and I don't know where that's come from. Okay, apparently I wear granny pads.

I don't wear this comment on. Stefan said, stop crying and get your clam at your horn. Neil said, oh, shot up love and shows your knickers. Mark Anderson, if you dress like trashed, you're going to attract rats. Wine, wine, wine, wine. If some people want to be taken seriously, stop being so pathetic. And by the way, wear knickers.

Then they get bad. So surprised she wasn't raped, by the way, she's dressing. Stupid slut should be raped for showing her pussy. And then someone goes, a lot of them are, the themes seem to be right. Wear clothes and it won't happen to you. The big one is like, you know, there's worse things happening in the world.

So, like, you're a fucking idiot. why are you getting so upset about this? Like, it's down to you anyway. So just, like, sort your life and care about something more important. Or like, yeah, what about Syria, for example? Yeah, well, that's the big one. I haven't talked about Syria. Like, I've talked about it so much in the past four months of people.

Yeah. Because it's like, just wear trousers and go and give some money to Syria. And I'm like, I do that anyway. Yeah. I often wear a trouser and I often donate money. Yeah. Like, I donate while wearing a cigarette pant. Exactly.

But the, that, that argument is so annoying because it's like, so are you literally saying that you can only ever care about it. everything at once. Oh yeah. If you do one campaign, you have to do them all. Yeah. And also like, sorry, can we, can we just talk about what you're doing then? Like, I don't know that's such an obvious one, but I'd love to sign your petition, please, Peter.

It's so unbearable. It's something that came out with, I know I talked about it before, about what's her face, she's married to Brad Pitt. What, oh God. Oh, what is her name? Angelina Jolie. That is somebody who received such an unbelievable barrage of thing for trying to make rape a weapon of war.

And that was just full of people being like, what about what about what about what about you said about the puzzle piece I was walking to work when you're like don't smash the puzzle piece like someone's hands who's trying to do it when you're not doing doing anything yourself you are not and I was walking to work like yes that's so true

and like if these you know these people who are being like what about Syria mate unless you are personally at the forefront of your big Syria Kickstarter then you don't get to which I will help we'll or hear throwing money at the situation but unless you actually doing something gooder then you don't get to shout at somebody

walking ahead trying their best, you know? It's so annoying. And I think like I've gone through, because it's been a year now that I've been doing this, so I've gone like through multiple stages. I would say of grief, but like of trolling. Where like, I started off being like, I'm going to fucking show them who's who. And I'd be like, I'm going to educate you one by one. And then I would try

and then I would get drunk and then I'd try even harder. And then I started getting like, I'd ignore them. And then sometimes I'd send one comment, which I still do now, which is what I'd do is I reply, because it makes me feel better to reply. And then I do this thing when I'm like, I'm not going to look at it again. and I don't often, if it's too much of a personal one,

and I know I'm going to look at it again, I'll reply, screenshot it and not send it, just so I feel like I've done something. That's a very good tip because I was going to say, and I've kind of said it, but... I think one of the worst things is that you don't, is the lack of control you have when you're being harassed online because often the person is just not going to listen to anything you say.

So, and I think the worst thing you can say is to be like, just ignore it because it's like, no, for my mental well-being, I would like to reply, thank you, or like I, you need to do whatever you need to do to keep yourself protected. Yeah. And if that is replying, but you know that say you're like drunk or something,

you know that maybe it's not universally a good idea. Yeah. You know, like that thing of like, don't send a text to an ex, always send a text, and then wait four hours and then see if you want to send it. Doing that is a great idea.

You put it down and you've seen it and you know what you would have said. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. It's knowing what I would have said and being happy with my aunt. and still not doing it feels good because I feel like I haven't given them power but I absolutely that is the one thing that you've just said that I cannot abide and it all comes from a good place

like I've put stuff out on Facebook and been like I'm really struggling the moment like because of the amount of comments and stuff like I've changed my name yesterday on Facebook and stuff that you told me to do which was such a good tip yes but people always just go just ignore it and it's like you don't understand until you can't sleep because your phone is going off so often that ignoring it actually it's like when you're a kid and they're like just ignore them and you're like but I can't go to class So, like, I can't just ignore it every time I have to do something that makes me feel better. I'm writing it and then throwing it away. It works.

It makes you feel better. You feel like done something. Yeah. Like, even in our situation, like, we have our iTunes reviews. We have, certainly on the old Debrief podcast, we had maybe 500 reviews of all, like, just the most gorgeous girls, like, saying the nicest things, all five stars. And then one three-star review where someone said that we talk too fast. And I... There was one as well that was like, this is very...

disappointing and I found it faintly annoying that one of them would just interrupt the other. And I was like, okay, and I became obsessed with that one comment. Yeah, right? And me being like, I wonder which one of us they think interrupt the other one. And like, and that is statistically what less, considerably less than even one percent. It's like 0.2 percent of a negative comment and that's the one that we both know word for word. And it's a fine comment. It's not that bad. And it's quite a reasonable critique quite frankly.

Like, yeah, we both do it. And like, you know, it's so reasonable and yet we know it word for word. And that's such a sad. Like, you just can't say, look at the good comments or, you know, because all you're going to holding onto is the negative stuff. Do you reckon it's something because, like, evolutionarily or like how we progress as people, we need to be aware of criticism and we need to be aware so that we can improve. Yeah, of course.

But then it's now got out of control because now you can, like, Gina, you do not need that amount of criticism in order to improve. No, daily. Yeah, exactly. Nobody needs to be told to get their clam out, you whore, in order to do. to be a better person. I kind of love him for saying Klam though. Klan is a good one, isn't it? Sometimes this guy was like,

get your drawers out, and I was so drunk in a bar, and I had like five kettle on expressos and I was like so drunk. And they just sent him a picture of like some, some lovely, drawls from my gear. He's like,

some wooden drawers. And the amount of ha-ha reactions made me feel better than the shit comment on the vital. I was going to say, yeah, so like you've got, like,

you have so many different types of online harassments and people listening, you know, maybe not everyone listening has done a wide scale campaign to make something a sexual offence,

But certainly you may have like experience of just getting like just like one arcy tweet every few months. You're like, all right. And what's like, so that, killing it with comedy, I think is one of my favorite things to see. Yeah. Because it feels so satisfying to see someone who's been trolled. I'm going to use the word troll, but I mean like abused, I guess, online to then come back with like a totally fly joke. I think comedy in all those situations is amazing because it completely disarms people. Like how do you reply to that?

How do you reply to a picture of some drawers? You can't. Like, what can you say? You know what I mean? So if you can make a joke about it, make a joke about it. Sometimes I guess you can't because you're just so tired and why should you have to create comedy? Yeah, I know. I'm like entertaining you.

Like am I. But comedy is really good. But also, yeah, writing it and deleting is really good. I've started trying to be doing the Sarah Silverman. I've started trying to, I've, over a couple of people, I've looked on their profile, seeing what they've done, what they're like. And I've found a point of connection. Yeah, connection with them.

And I've been like, hey, Dave, really sorry that you love, you know, hate my clam and want to get out. But I see you in a band, I play drums as well, and we probably have more in common than you'd realize. And then I just leave it. I just leave. I don't want to hear his response, but I feel like I've taken control of the situation

and be like, no, actually, you're not going to make me feel bad. Yeah. I mean, sure, I'll remember it for the rest of my life, like, whatever. But in that moment, I've replied, I've been the better person. I feel good about myself, because it all comes from, all those horrible comments come from,

he's probably full of a lot of hate. I don't know why. I bet he is not a nice guy to hang around with because he hates himself. So I don't, I never feel better going, away from it being like, well, actually you're a fucking, I've never left a comment feeling better. Trying to give a response that's like measured and then leave it alone, never go back to it is how I deal with it.

Because I guess then that's your, you've chosen to respond in a way that will help you rather than to try and one up the other person. Exactly. Because then you're just feeding them with energy and power and you need to take their power away. Don't feed them in this sort of ultimate thing, psychological thing is like you cannot fight hate with hate like that. Yeah. The Sarah Silverman thing.

If people don't know is that somebody calling her the C word on Twitter and her quite rightly could have ignored him or, you know, just been like, hey, F you, like, don't shout at me. Like, what an unnecessary thing to do? And she went on his timeline and read his profile and, like, and responded and said, hey, man, your rage is thinly veiled pain. Um, sorry about your back. Like, it really sucks when you're in pain. And he said, thanks so much. Sorry, I shouted. And then like, and then she was like, no worries. Like, everyone has bad, bad days. Um, have you tried this? And he was like, yeah, I have. but I can't afford this.

And then she did like screenshot, did a tweet and said like, hey, this guy needs help if you're in the San Antonio area, an actual doctor got in touch. Like somebody went and helped him. Like it was the most, his immediate like,

hey, thanks. Like, I'm sorry, I shouted was just the most sort of heartbreaking, like, you know, thing on him that he was obviously in so much pain and so much like,

so much like, so much anger there that, you know, just, it felt like the most like, you felt his like shoulders slump as he said it. And it's like, yeah.

So like, yeah. It's like that, that thing. about um it sounds like it's not relevant but it is like stafferjabal terror has got this horrible i know they've got this horrible reputation for being very angry and violent dogs and actually the only reason they've got that reputation is because they react the most to what you give them so if you give them love they will be the most loving of all the breeds but if you don't if you don't treat

them well then they will bite and they will be angry because they are hurt that you are treating them like that i always think about that in terms of people because obviously that's a dog but we are still so simple animals and we react how we are treated and sometimes you just don't want to kind of be the kind of Gandhi you just want to be like F you yeah and that's tricky have you ever replied to an online harassing person and um really regretted it yes I've been really mean but at the very beginning yeah I was really struggling because it was like so basically I put a viral Facebook post out of the guys right yeah then standing behind us when it happened yeah I was with gina when she got upskirted and there were these guys who were kind of like

chatting and Gina's very nice and friendly and I am not so I was ignoring them and Gina was like yeah oh I'll have some of your chips oh thanks so much and then they like gave him gave her the rest of their food and we were like eating it and like we were drinking and having a great time we could feel them sort of hanging around and then Gina saw what they were doing and weirdly we'd just taken a selfie of me and Gina together like yay and behind us the guys who did it are literally in the photo yeah you can see it posted that everywhere yeah so I put it on Facebook and it went viral that's how the campaign started it went viral on Twitter and Facebook.

But there was a massive pushback on that because I'd put a picture of their faces up. So the police were like, that's harassment, take it down, even though they couldn't do anything about the picture at my skirt. The actual harassment. Yeah. So then I had to say that down, then Facebook got involved and they were like, I violated their community guidelines and that all went down. So there was like this really big amount of anger coming through the comment section

of like, how dare this girl put this picture of these guys off and all the shit. So then there was... You got called attention seeking a lot. Yeah, it was like a fame horror and like, how do you? did you get the picture, you must have done up purpose, all this shit, but that's fine. But there was two days where that was really bad. And in those two days, I kind of lost my shit a little bit at the end. I basically just replied to three people being like,

you're disgusting, like, how dare you talk to me like this? You don't know me, like, you're a fucking idiot and all this stuff and swearing, beeping around. And I felt so bad because I was like, if you took my comment in isolation put on a screen, you took his comment in isolation on a screen, you just wouldn't know the difference. We are one and the same. I have become the troll.

Yeah. Like, what am I doing? He looked from man to beast and could not tell the difference. Exactly. So I was just like really upset about that, but it's taken a long time to get more used to it, but there's so many things you can do on the platforms I didn't know. This amazing organisation from Repeal Shield. Repeal Shield. Is it like an add-on that you can download or something? No, it's just a like a community organisation on Twitter. It's at Repeal underscore Shield. They got in touch and were like, hi Gina. We're just letting you know the best way to remove 90% of Twitter trials is to go to your settings and then no notifications. And then you see there's like a tick list on the right-hand side. The more of these boxes you tick the less trolls you'll see. so basically what it does is it gives you categories of like what kind of notifications do you like and it want to accept and you can

untick those so it's like ones with an egg with eight letters numbers after their name ones with two notes so it gets rid of all like the burner accounts which are just professional trolls there to troll you yeah but you can also put in and I don't know how to do this but I will find out during the course of this but someone messaged me saying off the back of that she was like you can also it's also useful if you can mute certain keywords

so in the settings on Twitter you can mute certain keywords Like clam. Exactly. Like I would mute, granny pants clam and whore. And that's all I would mute. And nothing else. So if you want to block anything, that includes swear words, etc. And hashtags too.

And then when they send them, they're just shouting into abyss on their own because you never see them. So you can literally block that. We don't know that. Why do we not know that? You can also only receive notifications from people you follow. Yes, that's good. So then that kind of wipes out all the trials. struggle with that because I'm, as a campaign, like,

people are getting, like, hey, I want to help. And I'm like, no, leave me low. I don't know. But it might work. People listening who aren't doing something on such a wide scale, but just don't want to see, like, any abuse. And also, it's quite nice as well, because it means that you just don't see, like, a lot of people talking about saying Trump's great. And I do also want to ask you, because as well as the campaigning,

you got stalked online and are still in the process of getting stalked to a lesser extent. But it was a guy from Gina's high school, secondary school, who she didn't wasn't really particularly friends with and he just started about two years ago just creating accounts that were exactly like Gina's friends and also he did it with me

trying to find out where Gina was in the past has a history of breaking couples up because he'd pretend to be someone and then like start rumours, start rumours up he did it with quite alarming regularity to be like I got weird messages at 4 in the morning from a guy that I used to go out with who I haven't spoke to her for a long time

asking me like how you were where you were and it was actually quite scary when I suddenly realized it wasn't my friend that I know it was this weird guy in this house just trying to get hold of me and so how like how what advice would you have for people who are being stalked online that like the fake even not even stalking but like fake fake accounts yeah and people creating fake accounts too like I don't know there's big stories about people break up and then someone creates a fake account to be like the ex-girlfriend and then they have an argument or like just to cause people harassment and be stressed about a situation

because they've done something wrong, quote and quote, whatever they've done. Yeah, he just feels like he's playing a version of the Sims with Facebook. Like he's literally controlling people and being like, go to the burning oven, do you know what I mean? Like he's making them do stuff that's really terrifying.

But you screenshoted everything. Yeah, I think that's an important thing, right? So you have to, so with, yeah, we're basically with social media, like the main thing is that people don't understand it at an authoritative level, an institutional level. So they don't fully understand it. Yeah.

They don't really get it. So, like, you have to save everything. So a friend of mine in Australia, she runs like a I guess like it's basically a quality's charity feminist charity and a friend of hers was on Tinder and her bio had like a Drake lyric in it

which was like quite a like sexy Drake lyric and her sexy aren't all of them all are yeah that's my Drake impression and then someone screenshot that picture her bio and started like this guy on Tinder started like harassing her and was like oh you're a slut and all this stuff and she was so amazing because what she did she got every single screenshot of all of it

she went to the police and she just did not stop and got him banned from session media. He had to go to court and everything and it was just over a shitty comment. But she made an example of him and the only way she could do that was by getting every single screenshot of everything he'd done she got in touch with his friends and asked them what kind of person he was and they were like always actually a bit so straight away she had these

people telling him what the issue was. And I think with my stalker he got in touch with me and all my friends to upset me right but I never did it. I never got in touch people who knew him and said like okay do you think there's anything we're going to going on with this guy? Do you ever see him? What does he do? Because I feel like that's an intrusion. But actually, if I had, I would probably have some more evidence. And I'm free to do that

because these people have Facebook messaging. They probably would want to help. So I think we often feel like if something like this happens, you get a barrage of shit or someone's doing something, you don't do the same thing back, which you could use. Which you could use. Because the problem was, I think, seem to remember, is that he'd been clearly harassing you. They didn't, but they didn't doubt that. But he hadn't ever said, I'm going to hurt you. And this is when I'm going to do. So they couldn't prove it was him. And then when they tried to, when they seized his computer and stuff, like, he'd obviously deleted something. They didn't have the technology.

Like, you'd like imagine that everything's like a movie. And they're like, hack into the mainframe. Ain't no one in our little town hacking into no mainframe. They don't know what a MacBook is. So I think there's, yeah, like getting as much information as possible and also being prepared to explain very simple concepts to people who you'd presume you wouldn't have to explain those things. Yeah, you have to know your stuff and assume that. they know nothing at all. And even just stuff like taking them through,

like I was talking to the police, I was taking them through how you make a frigging fake account and how easy it is to set one up. So like if you are getting sustained harassment like you were, would you still advise going to the police but just having like a lot of... Yeah, I would say go to the police, have all your evidence, but also something I did.

I just used people around me like in real life. So like, I told them. I was like, I'm going through this thing. It's really annoying. He's cropping up. It's fake accounts. I was on Facebook. I told everyone.

but had a designated three people who knew and whenever they saw stuff they would report it immediately because I couldn't get to everything straight away. I can't report everything straightway. So use people around you to report stuff and use them as like your little army. Yes. Because he's doing it 12 hours a day

or that person is not going to stop sending you those crappy comments and you don't want to respond fine. But, you know, if you're at work and you can't respond, have a couple of friends who you know can go on and report and comment and send that off to someone and try and get sort of for you because it's in real time. and you can't be everywhere.

No. And I probably, like, probably if you had, if, if, if, if then you weren't upskirted, right when that died down, you probably, you probably would be, like, you know, campaigning for that as well. Because I think, like, the gap between what we feel is acceptable and what the law covers, just, there's a, this huge chasm of, like, how did he not go to court? And he didn't go to court. And the reasons were totally ridiculous to me anyway, just being like, well, it's obvious.

Like, he's made, like, 20 fake accounts. He's talking to our parents. lives around the corner. Like, it's not good. But the power, the power of it, because we use it in our careers and like with socialising and for everything and it's so wonderful. The disparity between the power of it and actually the understanding of how severe and important it isn't at how much it can affect you from the people at the top is mind-blowing.

Yeah. Unless it's in real life, they don't really get it. And there just has to be a bigger conversation about it. There has to be, you have to report stuff. Like, I think we all like, I'm not going to report that comment because not to me. Nothing's going to happen with it. But actually, I think just do it. Yeah.

Always report stuff. We got 50,000 reports of, you know, off one article in a day. 50,000 people did it. They'd have to do something about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You will feel like you've got some sort of control. You've taken back a bit of control by being like, I've reported this. Yeah, I've done something.

I'm not just sitting here, like a, like a fool. I saw this fantastic, somebody had said something dreadful to Mary Beard, who's always getting so awful abuse. Poor Mary Beard. Always the worst abuse. Diane Abbott and Mary Beard have a horrific time. And then he'd said something dreadful. she'd

maybe responded to him it had just sort of got a bit out of hand and then somebody had chimed in and been like his name was like you know JX 88864 you know

yeah you know like England flag emoji and someone who said hey Mary this guy's name is James and I know his mom if that's helpful

to which the guy had been like sorry Mary I didn't mean any of it yes immediately when it's real and they've got no power they aren't they can tell us horrible stuff and it's the most opinion of like boys in the playground just you know throw in shit and even the word trolling

trolling as opposed to troll like now we assume it's like you know living under a bridge don't you know which they absolutely are eat children eat children that's a troll but the original word when it starts being used is trolling which is a fishing term for just throwing out multiple lines in a sort of just throwing out anything seeing what works and so these like professional trolls and like people who are doing it just like just to get a response in the same way of like boys in the playground pushing you over just like just trying to get something out you mean it's like ignore them ignore them it's like no you you try ignoring you try ignoring it and so they are just throwing shit out there to try and get a you know for the power for that you know what to watch the world burn which is what I think is it all

comes back to what you said at the start Gina and what we sort of touched on is it you just have to look after yourself you have to like focus on what will make you happy and if that is replying then find ways to reply that make you feel satisfied because that quick high of being like you're a dick isn't going to make you feel satisfied It does feel like, yeah, don't worry if you can't ignore it. Don't feel bad if you're fixating on a negative tweet or a negative thing. No, because we all do. Everyone does.

And also, like, another thing that is really good that I've tried to do more of. There's a period of time when I was like, so I did a segment on TV and I knew I was going to get like, I don't know, 10 comments underneath or 15 comments underneath, whatever, a handful. And I was like, okay, so each comment I get that's awful. And so they're replying to them, I'll send an email to help my campaign. So, like, I sent like an email to an editor or I sent like, um, I sent like, um, you know, a pitch for a piece about it to a newspaper, I did something that was actually going to be productive for the campaign instead. That's nice.

Because it was like, I kind of turned that comment into being like, instead of me being like, you're an asshole being like, thank you for that. Now I'm going to go and do something that's actually going to help it. So I'm going to flip it a bit. So if people aren't campaigning, you could just do something lovely for yourself. You could pass it on. Just to kind of rebalance, then you'll know you've rebalanced the hate and the love in the world. Yeah.

Because there's too much hate. And I suppose that's our job really to kind of like try and less. that and fight it with love. Which doesn't always mean being like, I understand, friend. No, but that's such a good way of doing it, right? They're still shouting into a hole and you're doing something better for the world. Yeah, it's like, ha ha!

That's so much better. On the scale of it, there's this like horrendous, just hate for the sake of hate. And then that's that almost not worse, but more infuriating thing of people arguing and not seeing your point of view and you're just desperately wanting them to understand. And like, you know, there's never going to be a point

where anyone on the internet ever says, like, you know what, you're right. We are universally in agreement. And I got into, like, the comedian Loli Adafope, who used to live in my shed. It's a nice shed, it's like got a bed. Okay, good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's nice. I was a landlord. She tweeted the other day, teach, in capitals, like, teach black history in schools with a sort of clap hand emoji in front of it, to which some guy says, like, why just black?

What about the Indian Asian exploitation? Like, why are you obsessed with being the victim? And you're like, oh, holy moly. And so she got into this, like, very educated, but, you know, cross discussion with him. It's like, have you heard about what aboutery that literally like, here's someone doing a good thing?

What about Syria? What about all this other stuff? Are you saying that's not important? It's like saying that you like horses does not mean you hate cows. Like that's not, you know, that's not what this argument is. And then I watched it happen for a while and then I was like, I'm going to join in. Right. I'm about to go on this trolling podcast. Did you yell here I go?

Here I come. I'm pretty much like, oh, ho ho. Here come. That was just as excited. A chimp noise. In my eyes, I said, his name was Cuzz, KU Z, and I said, Hey, Cahs, come, I totally agree with you. That's it?

No. No, I did. So I just was trying to like, you know, be nice, but I obviously don't agree. I was trying to trick him. So I said, hey, Cuzz, totally agree with you. But why did you only mention Indian Asian exploitation here? What about the oppression and treatment of the First Nations in Canada, question mark? I sent it, I was like, I've got him.

I've got him. Oh, yes, he's going to totally grow. He's going to totally understand the hypocrisy of what he's done. He's going to get it. He took it at face value, didn't they? He said, why just Canada there, Tessa? I'm sure the Inuits were exploited. What about the Native Americans?

You must have been taught the same place as Lolly. And I just wanted to like, I saw that. Oh my God, you're trolling each other. I was like, I just scream into the U.S. You know, like a mirror room where there's just carry on. Like that. He was like, I mean, he didn't respond. I was like, this guy must know it's a joke.

He must be taking the piss, surely to God. Like, so then I said, why didn't you bring up the Inuits? It's in your first tweet. And why were you talking about Native Americans? Don't you care about what happened to the Indigenous Australians? And I was like, we're trapped here forever, just like naming people who've been oppressed around the world. But I was like, that feeling of like,

agats him followed by another like yet more stupid comment back that you're just like, oh, this is a losing battle. That is just, I feel drained. Yeah. Like this is just like the amount of women who talk about, you know, having things explained to them by men, literally a tweet that say like, you won't believe how many men explain to me things on here.

It's mind blowing. to which a man will be like, well, if you didn't phrase things like a problem, like, people wouldn't offer their advice. You're just like, ha, ha, ha, ha. Why can't you see what you've done here? You just want to go to these people houses and sit down with a cup of tea and be like,

but can you have this with the catcalling episode? Like every time Tazza gets cackled, she wants to have a cup of tea with the people of people that are really able to chat. You can't argue in this tiny format. You can't ever, there's never a tweet that's ever going to change the world or change someone's point of view or see something.

It's the epitome of like, oh, we're just liking and ha-harring, you sending drawers you know, to IKEA draws. Everyone's like, yeah, one win for our team, obviously the good side. And everybody else thinks everyone must think that they're the good side. Of course.

You know, everyone's like, no, obviously good. And it's that awful thing of like, it's a joke, mate. You're like, oh, it just feels this, oh, that's the only noise that you can make because it feels this like pure frustration. And when they end an argument with that, it just, you just feel like you're in the playground again, just sort of completely helpless and like, why can't see that this? I'm the good guy.

Yes. But we're all in it. We're all in it and we can all fight love with love and we can all... Yeah, turning it into a positive. Turn it into a positive. If you have any ideas for future podcasts, then tweet us at Nobody PanicPod.

Email us, Nobody Panicpodcast at gmail.com. My personal Twitter is at Stiviam. The S's of 5. I'm at Tessacote. Please don't send any... Please don't troll. And Gina, I'm at Beanie Gigi. Beanie Gigi because you have to change her Twitter handle

because of my old stalker. Yeah. But yeah, do you... follow Gina's campaign, sign her petition. If you go on her Twitter, it's very apparent what you can do to help. And follow her on Instagram. Beanie Gigi. Beanie Gigi.

Sort of like a be nice this week. Let's all put a bit of positivity out there. Into the internet. And let's like report some stuff that we see, even if it's got nothing to do with us, if it's not nice, let's just report it. And let's give compliments. You know, like, if you see someone on the tube and you want to tell them you got a nice go, do that on the internet. Someone put something up, be like, even if you don't know them.

I love that. And if it's someone that you don't know them. you know being not nice, call them out on it. Like, be strong enough to be like, hey man, not cool. Hey man, not cool is one of the greatest, like, standalone sentences to call someone out there. Yeah, man, not cool. But yeah, see you next week, guys.

Have a lovely, safe, loving time. Bye!