Nobody Panic - How to deal with rejection (LIVE from the Fringe with Nish Kumar)

Episode Date: August 22, 2018

Rejection is the worst. Stevie and Tessa work out how to turn the crying into a positive sort of crying with help from the amazing (and wise) Nish Kumar. All live episodes were produced by Zak Annette. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. We are live from the fringe. We have two live.

Woo-woo, woo, woo. This is doing her customary train dogged train thing that I often will let it out, but not this time, because it's going out as is, guys. Guys, it's a visual medium, so it's me like sort of pulling on the train. Choo-choo, you know, it's pulling that train. Oh my God, guys, it's day, a million of the fringe or something.

We've been here. I feel like I was born here, and I feel like I have died here. We are looking significantly worse than the first one, which was all the seventh. Actually, Tessie, you look radiant today. Doesn't shave. Now say it back. I couldn't reach her. I'm too tired to read.

I'm important to be a conduit for you two who have slightly grown weary of each other. Oh, that's a great point, Nish. We should introduce the man in the house. Oh, sorry. Oh, I've got some man. This is Nish Kumar that you're listening to, popular comedian who is currently going to be going on currently, about to be going on a tour around the UK?

Please buy tickets, please buy tickets. And is it like nishkumar.com.combe.com.com.com. It's nishkumar.com.com.com.com. Also, some of the ticket links are broken, so maybe just incorporate old Captain Gooks. Now, as a stand dog, I know that you put the mic quite close to your mouth. You might have to take it further back because you're going to tell like this.

Please buy tickets. And I was talking with your levels so high, just saying, Nishkuma.combe. dot kukuk. First of all, flawless impression. Yes, that's exactly. Yes, come. That's got a duke.

You failed my accent. How are you feeling, Nish? How are you doing? How are you doing emotionally? I'm fine. I love it. You love that? Yeah, I have a great time at the fringe.

I've got a slightly more hectic fringe than usual. Oh, how come? Because I've been presenting some BBC 2 arts coverage. Watch out Yentop. I'm an arts journalist now. What's good? Alan Yentob. I smiled, but I didn't know who you meant.

Alan Yentop. was this guy he used to present arts documentaries and he's a very sort of serious or serious individual like you. Which, yeah, I was sort of offsetting

my public image as a kind of roguish clown. I know I get it. And from, and that was the source that's what that joke was. For more of those, Nishkumar.coma.

Nishkumar.coma.combeer. So, smashing it here. Tickets available. Some of the tickets broke. Some of the ticket links broken. Please use Google. Right. So, the topic of this podcast

is about how to cope with rejection and how to bounce back. I inherently associate bouncing back with Alan Partridge's book. I've not read it. Yeah, it's no, no, no, no, no. In the TV show, he's like obsessed with the idea that he's bouncing back the whole time. And in my head, I'm like, am I the Alan Partridge of comedy?

You're bouncing back. Well, maybe, I mean, we all laugh at poor Alan, but maybe, you know, he's all right. He's something to be learned from him. He's laughing back. Yeah, so it's about rejection. It's about getting over it. It's about, you know, recognizing it. And Nish is in a good sort of position

because as a comedian, consistent rejection, I'm presuming, consistent, yeah. Unless you were literally like, I'd like to be a comedian and then just went on to like Apollo, which is horrific if that happened. But I know it didn't. And I just think also as a human, this isn't how you just not going to be a podcast episode

when we just talk about being a comedian. So that was also a little subtle, don't just talk about being a comedian. Some podcasts have the briefing before the show. Not on nobody panic. Not like breathing. A seat of your pants,

sort is great. We're going to start with some of your amazing adult things that you've done this place. I'd like to start off. It's just like it's quite mean and jealous. I get on normally headed that out, but it's going in as is. Somebody's was, got up before 10am, on holiday, underline, which is all good and well,

and then it says, and went for a 5K run, brackets twice. On holiday. Who's that? I think we should applaud. I think of set up to set. Yes. That's amazing.

I hate to be captioned maths over here, but did you do a 10K? Did you do fucking... It's like over two days. Okay, great, great. Still, that's more than I've ever done in my life. Okay, so this is good. Looked up council tax bans before arranging flat viewings. That's genuinely good, because I always forget that.

I mean, I've not been... Renting or buying? Renting. Renting, great. Amazing. That is extremely grown up. Well done. That's so good.

I didn't want to cast dispersions about the audience, but I looked at the average age and in my head was like renting. Of course! But the other one we had, there was quite a few like, just bought a flat, just bought a flat, just bought a flat, just bought a flat.

Really? Okay. You should play a new go called Renting or Bel-end. That would be really good and non-judging, that's nice and kind. Welcome to show you're reading our book. Nish, read some out. I've got quite, this is Van Ergo and I've got quite,

one, changed savings account to get better interest. Ooh. What that means, but pretty great. I do know what it means. I'm just doing a comedian effect and I look like an idiot. Very great. Who was that? Oh, well done.

Well done. That's a good job. Good job. I hope your interest was really good. Use my gym membership for the first time since signing up. Yay. Yes. I'm trying to, it just can catch on.

It's not easy to do. Okay. Oh, someone. walked and didn't get an Uber. That's great. I think that is genuinely really excellent. Sometimes you've just got to Uber it, but that's really great. Also, the Uber situation in Edinburgh is absolutely diabolical.

It's hilarious, yeah. There's like three small cars. When you open the app, you're like, what does not? What happened? Yeah, and it's like 20 minutes to get to you. You're like, this isn't, yeah. It's why I imagine Uber's like an I am legend.

It's such a nitrous. But this bringing the kind of pop culture element to nobody panic, which we don't have, because we don't watch. I can see many media about that for a while. Go for it. Okay. Okay. I haven't read this beforehand, so I'm just going to go for it. There is no iron in my accommodation.

And I refused to wear an uniron shirt, so I steamed them in the shower. This is growing up on two levels because I've just, I mean, I've not ironed anything in, I think, since 2009. Genuinely, that's really great. What you got? I've got a game, very festival-specific one, pre-booked my, and they've for some reason capitalised the word fringe! Someone's pre-booked their tickets. That's great.

That's great. Go on. Did my eyebrows on the train? There's no mirror this morning. Brackets, not really that adult. I look mad now. Before the brackets, I should have got up earlier. And also, I haven't had breakfast.

Me neither. I was late. I was late. I was late. I was whole late. I was so late. It was so late. Bought and used vacuum storage bags.

Woo-woo! They're the best things in the world. They are. Moved back home from living in Paris for six months for my degree. Very adult decision. It's hard to make that choice. I like that. Oh, entered a bar.

I need to realise I wasn't now. Does that say butlered, battered or... Bothered? Yes, bothered. That makes more sense than butler, doesn't it? I entered a bar. I realized I didn't have a butler, so I left. entered a bar and I wasn't bothered and left without a drink.

Is that right? Have I read that out right? Yeah. Yes, you weren't asked. That's great. I like that. I like that as well. Go on.

What, you just thought, it's not for me. It's not for me? Just leave it. Making a decision. Making a choice. Yes, can this happen this morning? No, I feel like that was the right decision. No, you're right.

You're right, okay, okay. 9 a.m. Didn't want a drink. I'm so adult. Moved into a flat in London. Yes, very good. survive being on tour with three smelly boys without getting into debt. So many elements to that.

So much going on there. This feels like this on three different lines, so it feels like everyone passed it along writing a different heart of the story. So by being on tour with three semi boys without getting into debt. It's not okay. But either way, well done. So many elements are very adult. Nish. I bought not just one, but two pens in my bag today and they have been useful. Yes.

Yes. Yes. You don't give anybody any pens to write these downwards, so I make the audience work as a team together. This one was booked my driving test. Well, that's very impressive. But booked is equally well done. Well done, well done. And my final one was, in a desperate attempt to make my five a day, I bought a whole bag of salad from Tesco's and ate it like crisps.

But adults. And not adults. Spend my favorite. That's the best one. You can add it. Well done. It would be so, not as nice as crisp. Yeah.

You got about, here we go. Yeah, I've got a bunch more. Traveled around Germany for three weeks alone to force myself to learn German. Oh. Very good. Zerf. I did the same thing, but by traveling alone, I mean, did an AS level. I've got, I was totally prepared for writing adult thing down and bought a pen with me.

I mean, there's so many pen-based ones. There's a lot of pet-based ones. People are really proud of the pens. This one's got a smiley face on it, which is somewhat undermined the whole premise. Scheduling this show in as a break for preparing for an interview. Oh, good gosh, good luck with your interview. Who's that?

Oh, good luck, good luck, a lot. What are you interviewing for? Journalist, Post the BBC. Yes. We'll cut it out so you don't know what. You know what I'm going to. Good luck. Turned up to work on time.

Simple things. Simple things. Absolutely face level came out to. Right. Plus my breathed. Bare minimum. I got, put all my clothes on in the right order. Final one, final one.

Probably quite fit, because it's a final one, as it's another pen one and it's got another smiley face. In a way, it's all of the things of the correspondence. Had a pen in my bag when asked to write this. Smiley face. So glad. Give yourself a round of applause. Yes, nice. Yeah.

Shall we just pop into rejection? Yes, let's get in there. So, okay, fine, easy question. Nish, you have been rejected? Yes, I mean, how deep do you want to go with this? Because I've been coming to the other than Professor, this is my 12th year, which means it's a full year of my life

and I started coming when I was 21. And now I'm 32 and the sea is filled with ghosts of my sexual rejection. The number of places, people are talking threshold. number of places people have refused to sleep with Michigan City. Like, I should genuinely, next year I'm thinking of doing a site-specific show. You should get, have you seen those guys walking around with the headset? You should do that, a walking tour of Michius' lost loves, yeah.

I would go on that. This spot just round the back of the underbelly is where a girl from Leeds told me, absolutely not, you seem weird. Oh my God, I pay good money. I pay 10 hot pounds for that. That's a great idea for sure. Yeah, I think it's... You've got 12 years on the trot?

No, I did, I had a break last year. So I did 11 years, break last year, back here this year. I mean, I do love it beyond the odd sort of... It is weird coming back to the same place over and over again, and now at this point, starting to feel a little bit like that last series of scrubs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where it's like, why are Turk and JD still here?

Yeah. They've become the teachers, but it seems sad. Yeah. Do they become the head doctor? Yeah, they become like, it becomes like a teaching school. They should never be head doctors. They should always be the interns. Yeah, exactly.

They should have stopped. Somebody described this in the day. It was like, you should have stopped. I've just realized what that sounded down. Somebody described this other day is like, we're all on Love Island, but like we've been here for 10 years. Every time you're like, oh, do you think they'll get together? And they're like, no, no, they got together like seven years. And now everyone is just these like quite like good friends.

And there's no more, you know, there's no free song. There's no free song. There's nothing left for us. But in terms of, you say you've been here for 12 years, does that also imply that you presumably, like I say, didn't just walk on to life of the Apollo? You had a couple of hard times here too? No. And you kept coming back? Yeah, I did keep coming back.

The first, I... And a real Parkinson, like, you know, someone has to keep some sort of fucking order. Ew. I would have respected Parkinson so much more. It's just every softer when Billy Connolly had gone off on one, he'd been like, look, William, can we get some fucking order back in here, please? Good Lord. Good God, man.

Good Lord. Yeah, I think part of the reason that I love Edinburgh is that I, so I started doing comedy here when I was a student, in the same student group that then birthed Stevie Martin and Desert Codes. So I did a couple of years here. The reason I liked Edinburgh was because for the first five years of me doing comedy, So I graduated in 2007 and then between, I had a full-time day job. I had to have a full-time job.

I didn't say I had one. So I suggested it was like, you know, recreationally admin. But I had to, I financially had to have a full-time job for five years. Yeah. And then the last year I had a part-time job. So really from 2007 until 2013, I was a hobbyist comedian essentially. So I was going to work all day and then going. doing gigs a night and the reason that I always love Edinburgh is because Edinburgh

was the one month of the year where I wouldn't have to do a job and I would get to feel like a real comedian. I think that's why I have this kind of reservoir of affection for the city and the festival because in the rest of the year or it did not go well. So just broad strokes how did you like how did you deal with that how did you deal with in outside of Edinburgh you're like I'm still a madman job? Yeah. And it's also, because you didn't just, you didn't go, like, as a solo comedian, like, immediately, did you?

No. You did stuff with other people, and then you also, like, had some time out, and then you kind of, did you, was it like, you were 26 or 27 when you did your first, I was, it was too, I, it was too, I, it was too, I mean, there's a lot going on. But, so I turned 27. No, no, no, no, no, it's silent. That was, yeah. That would be a horrible way to find out you two were not invited.

Yeah. It's, yeah, it's Sunday the 26th. It's on Wikipedia, concerningly. But it's, I... Well, so I turned to 27 the year that I did my first solo hour. And the first solo hour was the start of me being able to phase out my day job and be a full-time comedian, which that process finished in 2013 after Edinburgh when I did the show. So, yeah, it was...

I mean, I don't want to get too morose with this, but yeah, the first half decade was pretty toilet. Like it was, yeah, so I... How did you keep going? How did you keep going? To some extent, I don't know. Okay. Like, it was one of those things where you would just hold on to whatever kernel of positivity you could.

So I'm like, I'm a particularly, I was a particularly bad comedian, I think, because everyone else did some, like, competition or showcase. There's a bunch of things that you can do, like the BBC New Act competition, the Laughing Horse, the Amused Moos. I am the only comedian who failed to get to the final of any of them. and it's still working from what I know. I think me and Ellis James are like the two ones who never got anything. And I auditioned for all the showcases here. So there was like the comedy reserve,

what's the other one, the one, the one at just big value. So there were all these auditions you can do and I failed at all of them. I didn't know this. Yeah, I mean it was... I guess you didn't talk about it, like openly. All right, Dave, if you want to come for a pint and listen to my sad life.

That it was a lot, yeah, so that was a lot. lot of, it was a lot of rejection. And I think the, I didn't, I didn't deal with it very productively, I think, because I was very young. Like in my, in your, my early 20s, my solution to it was just to get angry and drink.

Sure. Which is obviously not particularly productive, but I think eventually I realised that there are positive lessons to be taken from being rejected. And sometimes, it's a really weird thing. Sometimes when you're being rejected, you have to, you occasionally

you have to go, which doesn't sound very healthy, but occasionally you have to be like, maybe there's a reason. And maybe actually the solution is not to get angry and say, well, I should be getting these things, but maybe the solution is to go, oh, maybe I'll just keep, I'll just work harder. And if I think something that I'm doing is good, is being bounced back, instead of getting angry, why don't I just try and do something better and move the goalposts to that way? Well, there's that thing as well of like, if you try, if you're getting rejected for things, then you're sort of crossing things off. And it just means that there's a another avenue that you should be taken.

So actually it means that like you actually managed to do, to get to where you did without all of that stuff, which is great. And you probably wouldn't have maybe done the stuff that you have done. If you'd have just like smashed all those auditions and you would have, it would have probably haven't sooner. No. But it would have, yeah, maybe you wouldn't have had to have been so creative.

And maybe your shows wouldn't have been so good because you had that fire and you have like, well, fuck everybody. Like you didn't. So I'm going to really. smash this. Yeah, and also like, I mean, at one point in 2010, I was writing a double-act show with my friend Tom Neen, who's also here doing a show that is amazing, and Tom and I were writing a show. And I thought at the time, I was like, maybe, and I was having real fun working with Tom after having a couple of really tricky years doing stand-up. And I thought, well, maybe I'll just stop doing stand-up because it's not working. It's been three years, and I'm having more fun doing this stuff with Tom. And then at the very last minute, my friend Daniel Simonton, who is also here, is a wonderful Norwegian comedian, he got a free fringe slot and he said do you want to do half an hour of stand-up every day with me. And in my head I thought, well, I'm going to stop doing stand-up. And so there was no professional imperative to do this thing because I just thought I've had enough of it.

But when I came here, I was like, well, I'll do it anyway because I'm here, I may as well do another show. And because I stopped thinking about myself in terms of a career progression and just focused on the work that I was producing, I suddenly started having better gigs. Because instead of sitting there thinking, how can I progress professionally? What are the things, steps that I need to take, I just focused on the work. That's so interesting. And that was a, that fringe, that 2010 was a complete game change in my stand-up because I junked all my material and started a game from scratch.

And all I was focused on was, is this funny and is this good? And not thinking about how can I get into. Yeah, you're like thinking about the night, that night that you have to perform. Yeah, exactly. Oh, well, who's going to be in and like, what does this mean for my career? Yeah, completely. I feel like that fully about, because I mean, obviously, we're talking about it in terms comedy but I think I genuinely do think that that transfers across pretty much every career

not creative either like the moment you start worrying too much about where you fit in a career where you fit in your life you can spook yourself out and you can just you know you're not producing your best work completely moment you think well hang on wait ignore that what do I want to do every day at like no 930 till 5 yeah like what do I want to spend like 90% of my life doing is it this no is it that yes and then you can at least start to move towards the things you want to do. I don't know. That's such a good way putting it,

because you spend so much of your life working, and when you're doing something for that percentage of your life, you have to derive some kind of joy from it. I don't know anyone that is excelling in their work, in whatever field it is, of the people that I've mates with, that doesn't to some extent love what they do or have some kind of question. Yeah, you never hear somebody who's like, I hate this job.

It's a false discussion. When I first graduated, and we all graduated into like a flooded job market where it was very, and I think probably it will, in the future, right, you know when we all, I think we're all similar-ish age that like everyone sort of came out and there weren't obvious jobs to go into and everyone had to definitely a phase where they were like, oh shit, like now what? And there was all graduate schemes and unpaid internships and we were like, oh no. And if I think if we had come out into a different generation where we'd all gone straight into work

and we'd been relatively well paid, we maybe would have sat sat in a job that we didn't particularly love right from the start. And so as a result, everybody had to go through this dreadful, being turned away from so many things that eventually you had to end up with something that you actually really did like because you had to find that. Whereas if we'd all just walked into, you know,

I remember that the first thing I applied for was like being an engineer at the Mars company. With your anthropology degree. Yeah, absolutely. And I was like, yeah, why not? And I, you know, if I had, I'd probably still be there, you know, if I got it. So I would be like, yeah, why not? I'll stay at the mouse back.

I'd be CEO of Mars by now. And I'm like, I'm generally, that was the first thing I applied for. And I, there was that such a long time after I graduated, where I just would apply for all these mad internships and all kinds of things on the internet. And there were so many, I remember making a sort of collage of all these, like, due to the volume of applicants, we cannot provide feedback messages I would get. I'd just be so many. I was being turned away from so many things. And I was doing all kinds of crackers jobs, which obviously I was not right for.

And so I was being turned down correctly because it was not what I was supposed to do. And I think I probably talked about this before. But I did this internship with a PR science company, and they were really wonderful to me, but I was terrible at my job. And then I left because I had to legally. And also they were like, you're so bad, please go away.

But they were really, they were so nice to me. And they got me this card that was just like, the good luck card that happened to be in the shop, but it was a drawing of a signpost. And it said it said it that way and not it that way. And I, as in like, and it said, go for it. And I still have it because it was such a turning point in my life of like, oh, it's okay. I can go through all these things and they just be not it. And that's also been, however long I've done, like, this is still a learning curve.

And this is like, okay, at least I can close this door and be like, oh, not it. Yeah. And you can sort of take these rejections and be like, okay, it was just not that. I'll keep going until I find it. My cousin at the moment, she started a, or she's been doing this degree, and it's been quite like picking the degree was quite an arduous process,

and she was so like, oh, I would have to go to the best place, whatever? She starts it, she hates it. She absolutely hates it. She doesn't want to do it at all. And, you know, the family, I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ. But actually, it is like, it's exactly that case. It's like, well, okay, great.

It's not that. It's not it. So now we know that it's not that. now we can focus on trying to find it. Yeah, exactly. And you think, like, and so much of that, like, objection feels like so horrendous, which I want to talk about in a moment

about, like, why it is so bad. Yeah. But it's there for a reason it is to be like, no, this was not the right thing. And all these lovely ladies who turned you down in, alleyways behind the underbelly. Look at the lovely lady again now.

Yeah, absolutely. She's a girlfriend's amazing. They were the right. She's a great lady. She's a great lady. And they were, that was a signpost being like, not it, like close this door. Not around the back of the underbell.

not a problem back of the underbelly name. Fair enough. This is not a good choice. If people listening to this do not know the names of venues in Edinburgh, that is going to sound C. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. The underbelly is a venue.

The underbelly is a venue. The underbelly is an upside down cow. No, that's the underbelly. The underbelly is even worse. And it actually sounds even more sinister. It's actually technically an abandoned book depository. It's that horrible way. Yeah, the grummy upper.

The book, the books would have. well I think hence it being abandoned. Oh my god it's like cholera in there. It's horrible. Anyway, I uh, well, I just want to tell, I want to... Flies everywhere. He comes to all our podcasts, actually, this guy. He does, yes.

He's a fan. Can I just see your... Look, can I just join you in your love, down the back of the underbelly rejection tales? Yeah. That I once went to bed for a week. Do remember? I couldn't get out of bed.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the other story. I kissed a boy. Once. Once. Once. Stayed at his house, but there was only kissing.

And left in the morning. Honestly, I was like, well, we're married. We're married now. I was like skipping down. I skipped down the road in a way that I'm so embarrassed by now. And I was like, let I marry this boy, like that. Good morning, the bakers.

like I was just like I can't honestly like I just like oh god I was like I just was like this is it like I have found it like this is the boy for me and we're done it was like finding a perfect winter coat and you're like I never have to look again you know

that's how it felt also love and then saw him the next night at another party and I was a party and I I was like, he'll be waiting on the steps and like he'll be excited to see me and blah blah blah and he ignored me for that whole evening until three o'clock in the morning and every part of my body was just screaming at me and being like, get out, get out, get out, get out. You know he doesn't like you get out of here, but I just couldn't stop myself.

And I like did that thing where I saw him go upstairs. Then I like came up the stairs to be like, oh, oh, I was using you on the stairs. Like that. And then I was like, hey, like, what, you know, what? like, do you want to, like, what, how are you? Because we're married, so how are you doing? And then he, I was like, I remember being like, just like, say, like, what's going on? Like, what's happening here?

And he said to me, he was like, oh, okay, like, and I was so ready for this rejection. And then he said, like, I mean, like, I don't know, like, what you want. Like, I don't know if you, like, want to go out with me. To which I, like, was like, oh, my God, yes. I went, oh my God, yes. And then he went, sorry, because that's not what I want. I mean that is absolutely on him in the phrasing of that question. That is the wrong way to...

Don't leave a gap as well. Don't leave a gap after you say that. Don't leave the gap. Because enough space to me to go, oh my god, yes, like that. To say that. I totally forgot the details. Yeah, and they are worse than I... You did so well.

Because that's the thing is like, I was ready. I was like protecting myself and I was like... And I was like, and I was ready for him to say like, it wasn't happening and me to be like, okay, but then you were ready to say like, and meeting me like, okay, but then him to offer me that, all my armour just, like, fell off. I was like, cloud nine followed by like just the, like, the unbelievable plummet of that's not what I meant. And I remember him going and me being like, no, cool, absolutely fine. Like, it's like twitching. And then I, like, I remember not being able to like get myself down the stairs.

Like I couldn't even like walk properly. And then I like, like, honestly went to bed for a week. I just like, I just was so, like, crushed by it. Not particularly, just because I, like, judged it so badly and I had like put my whole like heart out on the line and and now in retrospect obviously like he's not obviously I mean he's quite odd you know he's and it's like it's not it like it wasn't supposed to be and like this is when I remember somebody having to like my house man had to like kick me to get me out of bed and me just being like but he was the best boy in the world and I was like but he isn't because he said he didn't want to go out with you so like obviously he's not that way like move let's move on now and I just like it just I took it took it I took it so so unbelievably hard that you need

to have like, unfortunately you do need to have a number of rejections in order to figure out how to deal with them. And to like know that you can bounce back so that when you are feeling that you don't think like, well I assume I feel like this for the rest of my life. Yeah, because even though you stayed in bed for a week, you then still got out of bed after a week. Like you didn't disappear into a mist and that was the end of you. Yes, right. They were like, what? You know, I saw a tester again. Oh no, a boy said he didn't want to go out with her and she evaporated. because honestly that's how it felt like I felt like I had about it

my arms like feel like they like they like disappeared when someone tells me that I want to go out of me yeah I get really like I had a thing in in Edinburgh where there was this guy who you know sometimes guys and girls I'm sure but as I'm straight I haven't had that experience with girls but a very very like flirty naturally so you're like well this is a shoe in and then they're married so no one else has I have I have Steve's laying down some sweet observational comedy. Thank you. No, I had that, and I'd just been dumped by someone that was like,

well, marriage, and there wasn't, and I was an absolute mess. And then this guy was just so cool. He was like asking me to go to shows and like being, and it was just me and him, then we'd go for dinner afterwards. And then like three days in, he mentioned his wife. And I was like, scat me what? And I was so, like, I was like, you vomited on him? Yes, I vomited.

While saying, excuse me what? And yeah, and then I couldn't feel my arms. I couldn't walk. This is a hard time to take it quite badly if I'm honest. But I think but then the next time that happens it doesn't feel as bad and the next time it happens it doesn't feel as bad and I think that's

I think if you're one of those people as well that's why a lot of people who go to, I don't know a lot of very kind of high achieving people have a lot of problems I feel like because they've got into I don't know their first choice at Oxford or whatever and they've got they've got like you know excellent grades they've never dropped anything they've got the perfect boyfriend

and then when one thing crumbles they don't know how to deal with it. And that can completely not consist. A friend of mine, extremely high achieving at school, just smashed everything. Everything was very, very easy for her. So she just, you know, went to Cambridge, was no longer top of the year and didn't know what to do.

And so, like, that rejection, I remember it happening to me when I went to secondary school and I went from a village primary school where there was 10 of us in the year. And so we were all on the netball team because we had to be. We were all on all the teams, you know. So it had never occurred to us that we weren't any good at something. And then I went to secondary school and suddenly, like, you know, there's five netball teams and like, you know, you're not on any of them.

And I had made the cut on the DE team. Like, you know, so and I, and then it hit me then and I was 11 years old. And so then I bounced back. And so I had mine when I was 11. But she didn't have hers until she was at university and she just totally didn't know what to, like couldn't cope at all. Because then the stakes were a bit higher because it's not a netball team. It's your career or it's your, you know, your parents are paying for you to be. and then you're like, I don't want to be here anymore.

And there's a lot more pressure. I think one of the best things that happened to me in my life was not going into Oxford. I know that sounds like an absolutely champagne problem. It genuinely was like the thing that, because when I was 18, ooh, spicy vibe. Because I was like super confident and like real piece of shit. Yeah. You were a piece of shit.

Yeah, I mean, fine. But like, I was like, I mean, this was a surprise literally no one. But I was like the head of the debating system. society and I was and I really thought I was the shit because I was I was always very good at exams I think again that's why I like Edinburgh because I like that construct of the year that you build towards something and then at the last minute you're kind of tested on it that's the kind of classic that's the way that I operated best and I think that not getting into Oxford was the first time that I was ever like oh oh maybe I'm not and also it wasn't one of those things where afterwards after the interview I walked out and I was like nailed it I walked out of that interview going yeesh yeah And that was, and that thing like, it was, at the time it felt like you weren't allowed to tell him, but it was the, I mean, those people, but really like the world saying like this actually isn't the right thing for you. Yeah, and it put some humility in me because I went to a grammar school, which is basically like a private school with none of the money but ten times the arrogance.

So like from the age of 11 at that school, they're like, you guys are actually the best because you're getting this amazing education and some chumps are paying for it. And like and so and I think and I built my, built up my confidence to such an extent. And in retrospect, if I'd got into Oxford, I would have been insufferable. Yeah. Actually, that first like stage of Virginia, Stephen just. Absolutely yes. Absolutely, yeah. As it is, you're on the fence now.

What is that thing that you call yourself, like something about a jet pack? Oh, a jet pack? You called yourself like a jet pack wanker. Oh, yes, yeah, yeah. I've various names for myself as a young man. and a jet propelled wanker, chocolate fraser. Like these are all the words I would describe myself as. Chocolate fraser is pretty much the most accurate description

of me when I was about 17 years old. But it's so weird in retrospect, reframing. I can't believe I hadn't even thought about this when we talk about rejection. I, every morning, I'm like, a part of me is like, that rejection helped me so much because it introduced a bit of humility to me. And that humility, you can then

translate that into building a work ethic. And that's the thing, isn't it? It's so, so useful in the future. And it makes you look back and like, oh, thank God I went through that. My God, I didn't get that job at Mars. Thank God I didn't go to Oxford. Thank God I went through that experience. But at the time, you don't want to hear that.

It's like, if you're being bullied and someone goes like, it'll give you a really strong character. And you're like, oh, okay. I'm eight. Yeah, I can't do any with that, mate. And yeah, and so like, just to put a biological bit on it, that this, There's a lot, a lot of studies about, like, rejection and it, and particularly losing a sports match as well.

There's studies into, like, boxes and how even in, like, real physical pain, winners can't feel anything. Like, they've won, and so they don't know until a while afterwards how hurt they are. Whereas the loser feels everything so intensely. And they have to, it's really, it's very intense to, like, be able to, even though they've been through the same thing and not having the same physical amount of pain, one of them isn't having it at a total. and one of it's feeling so intensely because your body is like don't ever do that again like don't ever let us lose because like the stakes for the for a human being you know thousands of years physically the stakes were like well if you got into a fight with another you know alpha male like and you're going to be kicked out of the group now and you're going to die and so like that's

what your body is is going through every time and so even though you know the nice married man or the lady and the boy I kissed one time you know really rationally not a massive deal but for your body you're like your body's like death death now yes I'm being cast out from society I'm being cast out and I will die alone. It's why it feels like those kind of things like I'm going to die alone you do feel that when it happens and you're like well I'll never amount to my thing I'm you feel like cast out in the kind of tundra and so part of it is the thing about this thing called like the 50-50 theory that like half of the rejection is from the thing like you've been not let

into Cambridge or you've the boys turned you down or whatever but the other half you do all yourself like you've done all that negative self-thinking and and so the half of it you can't do anything about like that somebody has turned you down but the the other half that's on you like you can be in control of that and you can not beat yourself up so much yeah i think it's like because i was really i'm obviously reading a lot about like how to you know how to deal with it and all that stuff and it's always the same sort of things and everything it's kind of you should acknowledge that it's hard you shouldn't try and push it away and be like no i'm fine i'm fine because it will just pop out in another circumstance like you know it's you need to feel it but then

also feel that it's like treat yourself kindly which I think is what you're saying as well like it's that's it's all about your perspective and you can't lose perspective you can for a bit and then you have to get it back yeah and like talking to other people is really helpful especially like you know not bringing you back to the fringe but bringing you back to the fringe it's a constant like it's a very it's like a hotbed of constant kind of mini rejections or if you do a bad show and someone else is doing an absolutely banger next door and you're like uh-huh and like all of that you kind of have to constantly like take these little tiny things and chat to people closest to you because everybody is suffering from rejections everybody like you're doing incredibly well but like it's kind of really

great to hear that for a few years you were like and I think that it's heartening for other people who have just maybe had a bad rejection or whatever to go like well look like he kept going yeah I think I think the more I think about as we're talking here the more I think about in your life, how you react to rejection ends up defining your entire life. Yeah. Like, it's like one of the most important things in your life is how you process it. And I think for a long time, I thought the solution was to hate myself, but, and just take it out of myself. But in a funny way, that was an expression of my ego, because at the base level of me going,

oh, well, I've been rejected, I must, this, I must sort of try and destroy myself. like fundamentally that came from a place of ego because the assumption was that I was so good that I should have how could this have happened and so I must then just drink for days because that's the sort of that's what an artist does whereas actually actually you were being rejected because your jokes were a bit of shit and what you should probably do is try and write some better jokes and crack on that way and it took me about half a decade to work that out and so if I can save anyone the trouble don't it's not constructive for you to that kind of self-loathing response is not constructive.

And actually, I discovered, it took me my entire 20s to discover the difference between self-loathing and self-criticism. And self-criticism is useful and helps you process rejection and move on from it. And self-loathing is an absolutely complete waste of your time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, which isn't to say that I don't hate myself, because I do. It's, I don't, yeah, but I just don't make, I just make less of a big deal. I think that's all being in your 30s is, like I know lots of people who have come to this place,

of self-acceptance and like I really love myself and I'm really proud of myself. I've come to a point where I'm like, look, I'm stuck with you. You don't like me. I'm in an unhappy marriage with my own personality. But we make it work. But we make it work. That's the thing. The two of us make it work. We don't like each other. If I'm honest, the sex has dried up. But we make it work now. And the self-loathing just runs as a constant hum in the background,

but it doesn't actually interfere with my work. Yeah, I know that that's just part of my life. And actually now, when something works, so like the last two, I had a really good show three days ago, and the last two shows, so I'm doing a work in progress show, I'm changing bits of problems every day. The last two have been not good. And so for me, now, that is quite helpful,

because you go, right, I've recorded it. Why was it not good? instead of going, it wasn't good. Now I'm like, why was it not good? What are the things that you can do to improve it? That's like a mixture of experience and you accepting that that is how it works now. And also you're having had rejections and you've now learned from them. And I think that is the crucial thing to take away from the podcast episode today.

It's just you've got to learn from it. You can absolutely have, rather than drink for three days, maybe drink for one night. One night. Or one night, yeah, one night, crucially. Well, one night. One, two more hours. Very important. And then, but then be like, right, okay, get back up.

What can I do to stop that happening again? Or what can I do to, because of this? Don't go on a two-week, Bender, and give your wallet and phone to a man who just asked you for them. I know, are you doing this? In what can only be described as the most polite mugging in human history. Oh, I mean, you did. And you tell me from someone else's phone, you're like, I gave a homeless man my phone. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty good stuff. It's a pretty funny thing to talk about in retrospect. apart from my friend Alice Farron Bradley, who does not find it very funny at all, because she spent 48 hours trying to track me down when I vanished. Oh dear! Oh my God.

I can imagine, allegedly, someone else that happened to. I think it's exactly that of finding that path between a little bit of like, oh, well, F you anyway. Like, I'm all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then 10, 10, 20, 20% of that, 20%? Yeah. And then 80%, okay, thank you for the notes. let me take that on board. How can I improve and be better and where can I channel this energy and what can I do with this?

So I think I am, I, because I think it also doesn't help a little bit. They're like, well, just keep going narrative. Yes. 100%. When I was, you know, really going through this and didn't have a job and I was really obsessed with Colonel Sanders. You bring them up so much. I love him. I love him. I love him. The KFC man. I mean, I know exactly who the Colonel is. People might not know.

Turn to talk about him as if you all know. Stephen, I'm afraid you don't get this body shape without being an O-Fay with the work of the Colonel. The Colonel, firstly, for the last 20 years of his life, he has never seen in public without his string tie and hat because he was now living the brand, but that is by the side. The second thing is that he had this,

when you stop it, he's quite old, he's like in his 60s and he's just a guy selling, he has a chicken shop and he's selling it on the side of the road. and then they divert the highway, so now nobody comes past where he is. And so he packs up his stuff and he goes on the road for three years trying to sell his chicken recipe to people. And I really read about him because he gets told no, like, 580 times. Something like insane.

And he was a real, like, and then he eventually, you know, sold the chicken and became Colonel Sons or whatever. But I think this, like, that narrative of like, just keep on going. sell that chicken, you know? Like, we keep peddling this, like, just believe in yourself and keep doing it. And there needs to be that and definitely still believe in yourself, but also take on board the like,

what if someone needs to change the chicken? Like, why are people, let's regroup on the chicken. Yeah, maybe change tact. Maybe, let's change tact. Think about other things, other meats, you might want to pay. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe.

Maybe. Because in the, because, you know, when you say it, like, you know, I was here for 12 years and then finally, like, now I'm here, I just kept pedaling it. We don't push enough, the like, oh, I actually thought, I totally, I threw out all my material,

I started again, I totally rethought and I took on all these roads. But it took as well, it took doing something else. You did like a thing with two. Yeah, yeah, I stepped away. It took doing something else to then be like, oh, actually, so it was, you basically did a different thing. Yeah, and also this is like a sort of boring technical thing specific to comedy, but when I worked with Tom Neenan, we would write our scripts and then put them, plug the computer into his television and go through line by line in his living room.

what does this need to be there? Is this funny? If it's not funny, is this leading to something funny? And I realised that that was a level of scrutiny. I was not exercising in my stand-up. There was just stuff that I was just saying that never were. And I wasn't with this, and I was like, why in one facet of my life am I exercising this level of immense scrutiny? And then in the other facet of my life,

which is notionally the career progression I want for the rest of my life. Why am I just going... So doing something different. Doing something different. That is a really good... Yeah, you're right, because that's... sort of the exception to the rule. I think that's in that we, I think he's not the,

I think he's not the exception so much. It's like he, we only hear this like, Marty Panelaire of the story rather than hearing everything. And like, I'm sure along the way he did change the chicken or he did do more stuff. There's a really great to hashtag called hashtag share your rejections. That's very, very happening in the moment. It's really great. It's a lot of artsy people, yeah,

but like it's a lot of people who've done very well being like, I got rejected for everything. And then like, it's really, really great. So look at that, how that, get some inspiration. I looked at what a lot of, of those hashtags and because when I saw Share Your Rejection I was like, sit down everyone. Yeah. Kim was about to crack out a toy thread. But that, I do think that that share your rejection hashtag just slightly pedal the thing

of like, I got rejected from Rada and look at me now. True, true. You know, Brutross, Brutross, garlic, whatever. I don't know. But it's like it cuts out that middle thing of, and I think that the percentage thing you just said is so important. It's like your response to rejection has to be a mixture. you have to get, if you have too much of the self-criticism, it lapses into self-loathing and it's

unproductive. But if you have not enough of it and you just go, I'm the greatest, you end up singing hello to the baker or whatever. It's like, it's like, it's like, it's that line in how you respond to addiction that is the most critical thing. It has to be enough self-criticism but not too much and enough self-belief but not too much. And in that sweet spot, you get stuff done, I think. That is an excellent point to end on because we're going to have to end. And thank you so much, Nish. That was so great.

Really, really useful. I feel genuinely a lot better about it. I really do. I'd be like, but actually, that's really lovely. And thank you, Jetta. And thank you to Stevie. Thank you having on Stevie. So next thing on parking.

Billy, William Connolly. Marston interviews, stars. But yes, if you have any ideas, for future podcasts. Tweet us at Nobody PanicPot. Me at Steev M. The Sas of Five. Me at Tessiggo's. You at Nish Kumar. Mr. Nish Kumar.

Mr. Nish Kumar. I'm so sorry, sir. There's a guy called Nish Kumar who got the Twitter handle and if I'm honest, has become increasingly ill-tempered. Because people do forget them. People do not. I'm not a natural

mister. Nobody on Twitter is a sad guy. That's what I mean. I'm not an instinctive mister and so a lot of the time people will just go you were fucking shit on our program yesterday and this goes like a software programmer from Bangal he's like I wasn't honest No one is having enough of time than John Lewis. John Lewis. Oh, John Lewis. He lives in Michigan and he's called John Lewis.

He spends his whole time and he's going not the wrong one. Not me. He's the wrong one. He needs the customer service department. He's very sweetly. He should just get off I think. You need to just get off to it. Barely you handle jobs. Do you need a job? Do you're already in people? Well, John Lewis should technically employ him.

Like that would be a way to sort of resolve. Yeah, just have him on retainer. An email us as well, Nobody PanicPonaceprogast at gmail.com. Yeah, big thanks to Nishkoumog. Go on Nishkumor.coma.com. You're great. To see his talk.

Thank you. Thank you for coming.