Nobody Panic - How to deal with your terrible boss

Episode Date: March 12, 2019

Got a Miranda Priestly, a David Brent or an Ebenezer Scrooge on your hands? Or even a James Cameron who once nailed a runner's cellphone to the wall. Get in here for some hard won advice on which battles to pick, how to get out ahead of micro-management and Stevie's really very good Kiera Knightly impression.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true, Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. it. Who? It's you.

It's me. It's me, guys. I'm the boss. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to Tessa's podcast. Welcome to my podcast. The energy now will get much more, just more cash and much more freeing and we'll let that negative energy just dissipate out of the room.

This podcast is about how to deal with your bad, bad boss. Your bad naughty boss. Also, the podcast is called Nobody Do Panic. Welcome. Yes, sorry, I'm Stevie. I'm Tessa, the bad boss. The bad boss. Yes.

And then now we're going to talk. about what adult thing you did this week before we get into the boss business yes my adult thing is I've been wearing my embezzaline teeth she's just taking her teeth out and Stevie said should I tell you not to take the teeth out or encourage you and I thought encouragement please basically I have these invisibleine braces for maybe oh god for so long now I've been waiting to do as my adult thing to say to you you'll say, what's your other thing? And I'll say, I've finished my Envisaline.

And you'll say, well done. And then, honestly, I've been dreaming of it for so long. And I still have not finished because I'm so bad at it. Yes. But I'm bad at it. You just mean you don't wear them as much. Sure, sure, yeah. Because you can, you, you do wear them a bit.

Yeah, but I suppose wear them 22 hours a day. You absolutely don't do that. No, I know. No, right, I understand. I'm averaging, I'm averaging about one hour. One day a year. At this current rate, honestly, I'm about one day a year. And I started off with so strong

and now I've just petered out and I've just Because as with many things A lot of progress early on And then the latest stuff is harder Stamina When you're trying to fix one one When you're trying to make one tooth To turn the other way around

Which tooth is turned the wrong way around This one but he's not anymore Oh that's yeah that's a delightful tooth Yeah but almost But now once you're in the braces business You want it perfect You're like well I've come this far Let's seal the deal

Right. Teeth. I'm here for the... And then it turns out suiting the deal is really hard. I understand. Sort of like, I guess if you're somebody who's like, I'm going to look real fit and then you go to the gym for like four weeks and you're like, why don't I look fit and then you stop?

Because you're like, this is boring. It's boring. It's absolutely boring. It turns out it takes ages to look fit. And then... Anyway, so what I'm saying is I'm trying to get... I'm trying to, you know... Fit teeth?

Yes. I'm completely. committing to this final, I'm just like, come on, this is absurd now. Of course. Do this final hurdle. Get your teeth back in. Great. So that's my adult thing.

That's a good adult thing. And also now I've prepped you and the audience for the grand finale. The big reveal. And I finally, I want everyone to be following my teeth journey. You'll be able to hear that you've got better teeth as well. If you see me in the street, could you just tell me to put my teeth in because I definitely won't have them in? Just in your full completion of being the grandma of the group.

just like message you throughout the day just remind me to put my teeth in there also if you've ever seen Invisaline they I mean they're literally invisible and so if you do put them down it's quite easy to lose them yes obviously you're given a special little case to take out and you don't have I lost that on the way home from the dentist

on being given it I've seen that case well you buy another little fun case no no just loose in the pocket that's so grim that's me bibin it's got hair stuck to it and stuff and you know a hairy pocket as we're

have. Yeah. Mine is, so mine's like an adult thing. Basically, someone sent me something, a company sent me something, and I always think that's very adult, because I never get sent anything. No, it's very exciting. Anyone listening, please send me some stuff. Look at those two girls, just like, one's got our teeth in, the others.

The other's supporting it. Why aren't they being sent more stuff? So I didn't buy this, but I got sent it. But I tried it, and I'd like to say that I will buy it again. So it's this company called Vibrant Vegan Co, which stands for a company. And it's like one of those, you know, there's like subscription meals. And you're like, well, I can't afford that. I can't afford that.

So what's good about this subscription thing is it's not like, you know, those ones are like, hello fresh. And it's like, deliver to your door every fucking day. And you have to pay 400 pounds. This is, you can do like a monthly subscription. You just get like cool vegan ready meals every month. Oh, that's lovely. And you can pick how much.

much you get, you can pick what it is, and they've got like all the stuff that you'd imagine on delivery, but it's vegan. Also, you can try one of the boxes and you can just try it. So you can just have like a one time, a one time go. Oh, well, that's worth it, isn't it? I think that's worth it. So I would say like, just have a one time go. If you're listening, you're like, I can't really do a subscription. Have a one time go. And then on the day when you get a pay rise or you get, or you're like, it's time. Especially if you're in that sweet van diagram between lazy, vegan and rich and rich

no I was the favorite lazy vegan and can't cook can't cook that's or lacking or not just can't cook lacking in inspiration which I think is 90% of cooking can't cooking yeah fear of the oven and lacking extreme fear of the oven and total lack of inspiration

I get so bought and it came at a really nice point because I'm so bored of all my food and also couldn't really make stuff because I'm banging on about it I've got like a but I'm kind of ill at the moment. So, like, I can't just chop stuff. I'm sorry. What a journey.

But I can't shop stuff and I can't, like, make stuff. And there's only so much delivery you can have as a vegan. It's like, a love of pizza with no cheese on it, please. Like, very boring. So they sent me here in vegan mac and cheese, and it was fucking delicious. It was so good. So if you're listening, and it's your vibe, then go on vibrantvegan.com.com.

And just have a look, because it's so good. And all the packaging is made, fully sustainably, and you can just drop the packaging at a collect plus venue, I guess. Like one of those collect plus places, it was often like food and wine shops or Tesco's do it as well, for free, and you just send it back for free, and they recycle it for other orders, which is, I think it's gorgeous. And what is the packaging made out of that you just told me? Like, basically like old jeans, denim.

In my mind, I'm imagining just a pair of jeans, a mac and cheese wrapped up in an elite eyes. It's not. That's one of the main things, not to keep dumping. on Hello Fresh. I think the main gripe with Hello Fresh is they're like, no food waste, but it's because it's one clove of garlic wrapped in 18 yards of bubble wrap. Yes. And you're like, come on, guys.

There's a lot more waste going on there. Well, best of luck with your new vegan life. Thank you. I'll be getting monthly vegan meals. That's what I'll be doing, and I'll be posting into Instagram, like a smug bastard. Now, onto the boss situation. So this was a suggestion

that was sent in by... Maybe I shouldn't say her name. I've just realised. you know what? This is a suggestion that was sent in to us by someone I will not say her name in case her boss is listening. That's very, very good and wise. Very smart. Well done. Witness protection and all. So, but also it was a while back that she sent in this request. So if you're listening, you know who you are and I'm sorry, but I also have popped it in my starred items. It's coming out now. She says, please can you do an episode on how to handle a toxic boss, lying away with dread of returning to work tomorrow. My boss is a complete bitch. So any advice would be

great. And she also explains she's the kind of boss who is your best friend one day and the next day she's breathing fire in your face if it's something ridiculous. Changes her mind constantly which makes it really impossible to follow instructions. Basically she sounds like the equivalent of like a toxic friend or a toxic person but just in the workplace

I think it's very common. Yes. It's very hard to be a good boss I think. Is there any thank you very much anonymous of Tumberidge Wells. Is there any more? You're not from Tumberge Wells necessarily just so in case you like. Oh it's not me it was you.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just think that's where all the, like, disgruntled letters are from. They are, yeah. Possibly she is, that'd be great. Could be. Do let us know if you are. Can I, is there any more specifics about the boss? Yeah, changes of mind constantly makes it impossible to follow instructions.

She always has her favourites and other people she's mad at. This changes frequently. So you can never tell. She's very, very unpredictable. She's worked for tough bosses before, but never once are unpredictable. You never know where you stand with her. She'll have a go if you're not knowing or doing something that no one has ever told you about or showing you how to do. It's like she's too busy to train her staff but then gets angry that you don't know stuff.

That kind of boss. It sounds very, very... And I think there's so many ways you can be bad at being a leader. Yes, I think it's a very tricky thing to do. Yes, in defence of bosses, it is quite hard. But in defence of Anonymous from Tumberdwell's slash not Tumberdwell's, it's so hard to be an employee. cope underneath those

because I used to work at a job and the boss was really cool and very nice but he never complimented you and what you'd done right because it was a startup and it was really tricky to you know he had a very difficult job and he was pulled in 17 different directions

and you know when you're like I know you're a nice guy but like you only talk to me when I've done something wrong or you only point out like a typo in my article you never go that was a great article It takes like, the only time I ever got like a, you were really great was when I had sort of said I, when I had to leave. And he was like, you know, you're a really great employee. And it went through all this really lovely stuff.

And it was like, right, would have really enjoyed knowing this for the last year where I felt maybe that I'm not very good at my job. Well, it's so hard to be somebody, to be a, you know, Yoda. Is he that, is, am I right? Yoda? Yoda's a small, sort of tripled Jedi from Star Wars. Is that what we're going for? He's a leader.

In a way. He's a cult. That's why I was a Yoda. He's a mentor. He's a mentor. Yeah, that is true. It's very hard to be a pure Yoda through and through. And also run a Futsi 100 company and live your own life and deal with your own worries and insecurities.

And, you know, somebody probably above you or at least somebody that you in some way answer to, you know. So. Tesla knows this as well. I've been running a Futsi 100 company for the last seven years. It's been a long time. And you're a very good boss. Thank you. May I say?

I just like to give back to the young women under my control. But no, it's much, much harder to be underneath them. Yeah, definitely. And I think there are like general tips for general difficult bosses. Then there are also, I found this thing which is like different types. Yeah, different types of bad bosses. I think it's important to begin with like how bad. Or like, let's define bad.

let's break the bad down because I think it's so easy to be like oh my boss but is that like oh they are really incompetent or they make terrible jokes or the opposite end of the spectrum if you've got you know a fit boss that you want to bone

no if on the line if on the umbrella of bad bosses down here is like makes weird jokes and keeps you know giving me too much work and at the other end is like touches me in the lift I see and you know

makes racist comments has threatened me like right so just be clear like I think it's just important to be like if you have got one that's like tipping into that

we should just say right at the top if someone's tipping into like something like oh gosh like you know no no that no job literally no job in the world is worth sticking it out with somebody who's

you know really truly I absolutely agree I think so if say anonymous from Tumberdwell loves every other aspect of a job and it's just the boss. Then you're like, okay, the options are you either change your perspective on how your boss is being as in you accept the behaviour and figure out how you can kind of facilitate it. So say if they're being very unpredictable or whatever, don't expect them to not be unpredictable.

Like expect them to always expect the worst basically and be able to manage that and like break it down and see how you can manage those individual elements or move to a different workplace that does the same sort of job, you know? Because, like, you don't really have any other options. You can't fire the boss, obviously. But you also can't be unhappy. So, yeah, you have to, like, see,

really think about whether you can, whether you're able to genuinely cope in the situation or whether you can just visualize yourself just spending the whole time moaning. Like, because I don't mean money in a negative way because you do need to moan because, like, also this particular boss in that email just sounds absolutely impossible. So unless you really love your job, I'd say get out with that particular boss.

Unpredictable, being your friend one day, being horrible. Like, it's just not worth dealing with those people. Me and my sister had a situation recently where we were trying to get like a project off the ground. And there was this guy that we were dealing with. And I just don't like him. He's not good at his job. He's very erratic. He talks over you.

He's quite patronising. But he works for a good job. company and in the end we said no because we both went for like a coffee and I was just like I don't want that person in my life every week like I don't want to email that person so you have to really like protect yourself I think and be like right how much is it worth and if if it makes you feel better like just really imagine being in another place not having to deal with them but the same is a job if that makes you feel calm and relaxed and look into switching jobs but there are individual specific types of bosses

that I think we can deal with because you have to learn how to deal with difficult people that is just a part of life, isn't it? So wise. Or you shoot them. You can moan about it and also you are fully within your rights to moan about it because it's pain in the ass.

But if there are things you can do to stop it or there are things you can ask for then you should always try and ask for those things before you like just give up and you're like well I guess I have to kill her or him. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can get male bosses as well apparently.

oh really gosh oh well gosh i wonder what they're like to work for probably really great yeah probably probably yeah um according to the uh american according to the bible according to the bible more than 50% of people have would consider their boss to be a toxic person oh god and 75% of people consider their boss to be an extreme source of stress i cut in front of me and said bible so you didn't you said american no you'll never know I want to The American psychology account. It's definitely the American. Brilliant. Gallup, but the statistics people.

Yeah. Also, I think as well, it can be so, again, I don't mean this about the person that email doing because that does sound like just a difficult boss, but sometimes easier to blame upwards sometimes as well. So if actually look at what you're doing too. Yeah, and I think it's also easy, very easy to get yourself into a very like

grass is greener situation. Yeah. And be like, oh, I'll go somewhere else and then finally I'll be I'll be reading Tina Fey's bossy pants at the moment, which is I love that book. A fantastic read. In fact, I stole it from your house. Oh, did you? That's where I got it from. Yes, I agree. So as you know, she says in there somewhere that when people are terrible, you have to decide whether you ask yourself, is this person standing between me and something I want?

And if they're not, then you just have to sort of ignore them and like, shrug your shoulders and be like, I haven't got the energy or time for your shit. Yeah. But you aren't actually actively standing in my way. So just you do you over there. And if they are standing in your way, then you have to make the decision to be like, how am I going to deal with this? And I think that's the thing about having a bad boss is that like, is this a job that I like,

am I just here, like, making some money? Or do I like passionately love this company or this business or this, is this, is this, do I want desperately to rise within this thing? And is this person literally stood in my way? Or am I just cash in the hours? doing some time here because a lot of the bosses I have hated and there are many that doesn't surprise me but I don't know what that I don't know what I mean by that you know what I mean well my main thing by by a country mile is incompetence

matched with jobs worthiness oh yeah so any so I worked in the reception of a hotel for six months and me and my boss I can't imagine that we he could ever ever know I even make this podcast but Stephen you were about pass. Like, we just rubbed each other up so badly the wrong way because I did not give a shit about the job and also was just like giving things away left, right and centre because I just wanted people to have a nice time.

Not like have a free room, but like any complaints, I was like, of course. I was basically treating the place like a six star, you know, which I sort of think everywhere should be if you work in customer services. So if there was a complaint, I was like, of course, consider it, you know, consider it done. Whereas he was such a job's worth and also kept calling me quirky, which, you know, I'm

on the verge of shanking him in his sleep and we worked through Christmas and I remember he wouldn't let me and my friend take our break at the same time so we have Christmas lunch together Oh my God Yeah you know he could have manned Like a nice boss a Yoda would have been like

Of course go Have your lunch small children like children Well it's insecure people Who feel that that's how they can assert their power In weird ways And also I will Sorry Stephen I will

for earrings. It was Christmas he made me take them off. Oh my god. I was like, where do you think we are? Like also I can't imagine any job in the world maybe a grand high judge on a murder trial where everyone would be like, you know what? Take the bubbles off. It's not for now. A man has died.

Yeah, like, yeah, funeral director judge and that's it. Everyone else. That is it, yeah. Earrings on. I was running around desk. I was like, I was a barrel of laughs. Anyway, exactly what you're saying. They're like, oh, he was really insecure because one of the very first things when you're taught to understand your boss is like what is it that motivates them?

Like why are they bad? And if it's like they're a bigger, you're like, not a lot you can do. But is it like in this guy's case like insecurities and knew he was sort of out of his depth in his job and could tell that I was just sort of naturally better. Yeah, not necessarily. You'd be able to do a better job of his job actually.

Yeah, not that I was any good at like the numbers and my cash out was wrong by thousands of pounds every day. So, like, I was, I was bad at it, but I was a naturally nicer person. Yeah. Also, so obnoxious with me. I was, like, 18 years old. I mean, like, I could, but I do maintain, I go down his job better than he could. And so, you know, like, insecurities, didn't, you know, fell out of his depth, wanted to assert his power.

Like, didn't want us to be able to go to lunch, wanted to make sure that, like, he was, where he was in control. He was in control. He was in control. You had to ask him for everything. And so that was his, for example, in Tumbridge Wells's case, this sort of hot and cold thing is, like, nobody sets out every day to like be a dick on purpose like where does this come from in her is she she might be having an absolutely which probably sounds like she's having a dreadful like private life like obviously it's spilling over into her work life because there's no other reason why you would be that erratic yeah exactly unless you're getting pressure from outside yeah are you do you desperately want people to like you so are you trying to like in her thing about like favouritism is actually this really transparent like she wants to be everyone's friend but then she also wants to be in charge?

Like, is she trying to, does she not have any friends in the real world? In the world, yeah. I remember there was a boss that I had when I was a waitress. You know, he wasn't a bad of running the restaurant. Like, the restaurant was fine. But he would assert power in an over-the-top way

because he felt insecure. And so he would be really, really horrible to me in the sense of just like, my uniform was something. Like, it would be boiling hot outside. And I would roll up my sleeves and he would be like, I'm sorry you can't. But other people had.

And it was like, well, why can't? I. Yeah, exactly. And then I remember talking to my parents about it and I was like I genuinely can't deal with this guy. Like I hate him. He makes me feel like and they said, why don't you try killing him with kindness in a way? Why don't you try to actually find some sort of common ground with him? Just see what happens with that. So I did during a lunch break which I would always go outside by myself and just sit and like I'd read a book or something and now I see that looked quite snobby and quite like, I'm going to say I'm read my book, I'm not going to hang out with all the other people. And I didn't realize that at the time. So I stopped doing

that and I actually like actively would like sit with them, sit with him in lunch and just chat and like ask him about stuff. And, you know, obviously like the first time he was like, obviously there was a bit of like, why are you asking me this? But then he like started to include me in the banter. And then sort of, and it wasn't that I needed his approval. It just made my shifts nicer. Yeah, it just took away his like his edge his edge because he doesn't like you and so the sleeves down is really neither him or there it's just a way for him to be like

just you know just so you know I'm the one in charge here put your things down I'm underboss and often when someone doesn't like you or say someone's favouritisming sure someone else over you or whatever yeah yeah I just I think it's so important to just try and figure out rather than what can I do to make them better be like what can I do to give myself An easier ride.

An easier time because it's so easy to get into, like, locked into a battle of wits or whatever and decide that, like, I've been sent home from so many catering jobs for Bacchat. Oh, my God, just, like, so. This is, this is really interesting. Well, I just, I was always never... It's never happened to me once.

I was just like, well, I was, I didn't have sent home because we were, like, we were in the van. So, like, no one could take, no one could actually... I couldn't get home, so I just got sent to the kitchen. Like, I got sent to, like, do something in the back. In, like, a lone room. In a lone room. I was constantly being sent to the back.

Because, and then when I, you know, I never, like, I never, I just always was like, I think the napkins should be like this. And they were like, well, I'm the boss. And rather than me being like, you're quite right. I'll know my place. I just would like go and change this. So I go. Understandably.

Difficulty with authority. Extreme. Yeah. As we've identified, it's rather than being like, oh, that woman is a bitch, even though I do maintain she is. Yeah, sure. Amanda, you're a terrible boss. I was also an extremely bad employee.

Right. Like, I was also, my failings were like, you know, terrible respect for authority. Didn't listen to people. Whereas, like, if I really wanted to excel and, like, wanted to make, rather than being like, oh, she's a bitch, how, like, she's never going to like me. I could be like, okay, what are the things that she tells me off about? And I, therefore, I would, like, show up one, if I really wanted to be good, I'd, like, show up one time, have all the right stuff, have my uniform correct.

Not change all her stuff. Not change the stuff that she just do, just do, politely do the thing that she's asked me to do. And then, rather than just be like, okay, I've done the bare minimum, then go one step above. and be like, okay, she always gets stressed out at this time because, you know, I'll make her a cup of tea. I'll make her a cup of tea. Or I do that job that I've just seen, she hasn't asked me, but I will do it. I can see an extra thing and I will try and make her life easier and preempt the stuff.

And if, like, micromanaging, for example, is something that, you know, gets on your wick, then preempt them saying, have you done this? Which makes you go like, you know I have! Like, an explode. Or worse, you know I haven't. Or you know I haven't. Have you not got this, really? Like, no, I haven't, because they're not on your fucking desk.

are they and then I'm sent home and then I'm sent home again so you could preempt that by A identifying that you probably respond poorly to micromanagement because you know you've probably forgotten So A fix that in yourself

And then secondly When they come in in the morning Be like, you know Or whatever Be like these already say like The reviews are on your desk You know they're done They're done

Here they are And you'll be expecting these at 2pm Or whatever So you're saying So they can't be like Where are the things You know, you're like, oh, you're like, this took me slightly longer because I was waiting for such and such, so it will be here at four or whatever. And that's, again, about changing yourself and your own, and obviously part of it is like, what do I have to change if they're a bitch?

Yeah. But that's the way of literally every single human relationship. At some point, you have to go like, oh, hang on, I've not done that. Or like, I need to, there are things that I can do to make this thing better because also the person who's just like behavior is pissing you off. They don't necessarily know that their behaviour is pissing you off. Exactly. Whereas you know, so you can alter what you're doing to try and make it easy for yourself. I think that that's a really good point.

But yeah, also like the number one tip all the time is like, just make sure that they're a bad boss rather than you're a bad employee. And I think we found out. I think we found out. Sometimes you can be, you know, you're the bad employee. You're not hitting the numbers or the equivalent. You're not hitting the deadlines or you're not getting, your stuff has too many typos.

or whatever, like, you're not doing as good a job as you could be doing, and your boss is on your back about it, then you can't really call them a bad boss, because you need to kind of up your game, or see why your game hasn't been up, like, interrogate that, be like, is it because I don't care about this job anymore? For example, that's what happened to me. I was like, oh, I seem to be submitting shit

because I want to leave, so I will leave. But if it is, like, unpredictable, toxic kind of personality of the boss that is just unmanageable, just figure out the best way to put out them fires, as they say in the office. Or preemptively, put some salt down if you think there's going to be some fires. Does salt help fires?

I don't know. I don't know. Throw some salt on that fire. That's what we're saying. On the ground that looks like it might flame up at a later date when you're like, oh, I know they're going to be cross about such and such a thing. Like what can you do to preempt even that happening? Yes, a couple of points that I saw,

which is sometimes it can be annoying when a boss is micromanaging you, you can assume the worst from those check-ins. You can't be defensive and presume that they're saying, basically, like, oh, you haven't done it, have you, when you have? When actually they are just checking, they have your best interest at heart, they want to make sure that you get it done.

Do you know what I mean? So I think as well, it's not always, micromanagement isn't always necessarily coming from a place of, like, well, you haven't probably done this, have you? It can be coming from, they are disorganized and they need to know, they keep forgetting where everyone's at. That's something like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, go on, no, no, no, please. No, please. It was about micro-management. No, yes, I would like to hear more. But you're like, you're going to tell me more, though. I don't think I am, no. Well, I was just going to say about that fantastic bit in The Devil Wears Prada, where she has to go and get the new Harry Potter book

that hasn't even come out yet. You know, that's sort of like impossible task. And she does it. She's going to quit, but then she finds. it like the other whatever yeah she finds it and she throws it down on merrill streep's desk um in this like ta-da and you're like oh my god what victory like she's done it and it's all so excited and then merrill street looks at it like disdainfully and it's like well what's this like they're twins what are they going to do with one share it and there's like this moment where you're like oh my god

she wanted two she's she didn't ask for two but she wanted her right and you're like oh my god no poor anne Halfway, like, she tried so hard, why can't she just be nice? Then, at the Hathaway, I was like, of course not. I had it bound, so it looked like a real book, and there's two copies, and the twins are on the train on the way to grandmas. And so it's like, and then she, like, walks out, because she did that extra

18 steps. Because she knew she was going to have to. Because she knows there's never, ever going to be this moment of praise of, like, oh, well done, you did the thing. She's like, all she can do is, like, stop Merrill in her tracks and be like, but, like, she's already thought through all the, she's already thought everything a million steps ahead, which is such an unnecessary burden to put on yourself. It is, but at the same time, like with life,

you can't wait for praise from others. You can't wait for praise from others. You have to, like, be satisfied in your own work. Yes. And I think a lot of us, I specifically rely so much in a job situation of someone that I perceive to be in authority going, well done, Stevie, that was so great. And that echoes throughout everything that I do.

And actually trying, as you get older, and it is pretty much an age thing. Like if you're listening and you're like early 20s, it's so you have to be a specific personality type, I think, to completely understand that and be able to go like, actually, my boss is a dick. You immediately are kind of deferential to somebody who appears, like they earn more money and say, oh, good work, Stevie.

Yeah, that was great. But you can't get that all the time because people as well have, you know, your boss is thinking about 12 billion different things. And unfortunately, the added extra of praising you isn't going to be top of their list which is just not helpful to you

so you have to like yeah like and Hathaway gets satisfaction from the fact that she's done preempted the stuff and Meryl Streep never actually says well done Jesus Christ you preempted that well she just walks off knowing that she has done herself that takes a journey because she's not like that start you're exactly right she's desperately craving the praise

and then she realizes like the praise comes from within the breast comes from within and always put the twins on the train to grandmas. Guys, if we can take anything away from this, it's put the twins on the train to grandmas. I also wanted to say something about how, if your boss is genuinely, you're listening to this and you're like, great, all of this would apply, except for my boss is a genuine asshole. Like, no matter how much I change my perspective or whatever, it's, I can't leave the job and it's making my life hell.

Then there's, there are things like you can do to help yourself. like talk to the other employees that you work with so you're not alone. Go for drinks after work with people that you think might share a similar viewpoint as you. And I'm not saying start off like a massive bitching session. I just mean like, you know, be like, how do you feel about the leadership in this company?

Perhaps. Or something maybe less formal sounding. And then immediately you can get feedback from other people, their experiences. Then you can like pull together a resource of like, Okay, so between us, what are our experience is? How bad is this? What are the objectively bad shit that our boss is doing? And is there an HR department that we can speak about?

Or even better, are there positive things that we can bring to the boss themselves? So like, for example, our boss who just was just never nice to us, but only picked out the bad things. We didn't obviously, we all chatted among ourselves. And we were also found out that we were on a ridiculously low pay for what we should be doing. And the pay disparity between us and them were ridiculous. So we like, rather than just go in and be like, you're not nice to us, we're not paid enough. We're like, so we thought it would be very helpful as a work environment for us to have six-monthly appraisals rather than like yearly. Because it's a startup and because it's so new and because, you know, half of the staff are like 20.

And it would boost morale. It would boost morale so much. We need it a bit more because some of us are first-time jobbers and we don't understand quite a lot. the things that maybe you presume that we should understand. And also, you know, we've been looking across at friends working in similar industries and we feel that the pay that we're on, maybe we would like to discuss this insid appraisal. It's like translating it into kind speak, you know? And like having a compliment, doing the compliment sandwich thing as well of being like, we all wanted to like sort of thing. Yes, very smart. I think you have, but then you can plot a plan

together to kind of maximise what you're going to say in the nicest way possible because I think there's no point in just sitting and moaning with each other and bitching with each other and then not doing anything because that will make you feel powerless and pointless and like Sunday nights will just be horrible for the rest of a good time. It'll just feed this like

it'll just feed the wagon. It'll feed the wagon and the wagon will have broken down. Yeah it'll just feed weirdly because it's like fury you'll you'll have to go for lots of after-work drinks to be so furious about it and it'll just become, it'll get out of control and then you'll be set about you when you'll be able to bring it up in a rational way

because it's now become this like behemoth in the room and I think shout out to my friend Claire Reevee, the teacher's primary school when they give the kids instructions they do two stars and a wish. Oh, oh god! So two things that you did really well today and then a wish for the future. I mean that is just great. Isn't it?

So it's a way of being like we're loving the workplace and this is really helpful and we certainly enjoyed and maybe it's things that are on topic. Pizza we got on Friday. Yeah, so that really helped staff morale if that's a thing that's an area. And then what we would love is this, you know, rather than being like, because no human being in the world is ever going to respond well to, you're a bitch and everyone in the office hates you.

It's actually really toxic. It's actually very toxic. It's really unpredictable and, yeah, the favouritism is killing us. Because my options there are one, intense tears or fury. Yeah, there's no middle ground where I go, oh, oh wow. That has made me think in a different way. Thank you, Sandra. Thank you, Sandra, actually.

Gosh, and you do look well today. Especially if it's true, because when someone, that's when I get the most upset, is when someone says something to me that's critical that is fully true. Absolutely. And then you're immediately flound into a rage because it's like, fuck up! And then about an hour later, you're like, I'm sorry, that is correct. Yeah, it is. So if somebody brought up a criticism of yours that you had never, ever considered,

or you know you didn't have. You'd be like, oh, right. But if it was something that you, secretly in your heart was your... Yeah, which do you know, if you're a boss, if you're acting, if you're a boss and you're acting erratically or you're acting badly, like we said, right, let's start the podcast,

it's for a reason, and that reason will be insecurity about the fact that people don't like you or whatever. So then when someone comes up to you and is literally like, we don't like it. Just so you know, your insecurity is extremely open and everyone can see them and they're really affecting you and they're valid. Like, you're right, you are shit. The thing you're most afraid of is completely correct.

It's going to go. Every day of your working life. So, yeah. So, yeah, it's got to be wrapped up in this. And also, you can't just bring, like, you're bad and this is bad. Yeah. Fact, it's got to be like, I think it would be better if there was more praise. If there was less of this.

If there was, you know, an active, you need to bring an act. Especially if there was a point in time when that did happen. So you could be like, do remember that time when you said this to me or we had this sort of really great few months? And then it kind of has, that slipped a little bit because obviously we're all so interested in the numbers, for example. For example. Things have overshadowed kind of staff well-being in a way.

So you can kind of point to something that they did well in the past and go like, that's obviously something that you do do. But of course the stress has all got to us. But it'd be great if we could all try and do that again, like if there's a possibility of that happening. Well, just one more thing for Mrs. One more thing, one more thing to Madam Tumbridge Wells. Oh my God, please. Just about, like, her being the best friend one day and not the next day. I think it's that thing that you obviously don't want to be her actual friend.

And so part of you just needs to, like, emotionally slightly check out. I mean, I think fully check out. Or fully check out. So if she wants to make, if she wants to be nice to you, then go ahead. Yeah. That just means that, oh, today she's in a good mood or whatever. And then the next day she's not in a good mood. It's got nothing to you.

And you've just got to be like, I'm sailing along here doing my thing. You don't need her friendship. Don't need her friendship. and the thing about her sometimes telling you to do stuff that you definitely don't know how to do or whatever. I mean, I know that I've been in so many jobs where I had no clue what I was doing. I'd never, ever stood up for myself.

I was reminded of this video that came out a long time ago about domestic violence, so completely on brand. A lot of fun. It's got Kira Knightley in it, and it was just like a short video for the internet, and this is very pre sort of Me Too or anything. And she goes home and the husband isn't, there and she's like looking from in the kitchen and then he comes in he's obviously furious with her for

some reason you know she's been it's always clear that like this is a um difficult relationship in which she she she already she comes in the house being like oh i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm late i'm sorry I'm late anyway and then while they're shouting in the kitchen he throws a tea towel in her face and she then uh takes a moment and then looks in a different direction as though she's now like an actress and we're on set and like breaks the fourth wall and is like sorry can we cut there like i didn't agree to, I didn't agree to that. And then he hits her and then it becomes about like women trying to say stop and whatever. Like she's saying cut but you know. But an interesting mixture of disciplines. So much going on in it. It's a very confusing video.

But what really struck me, what we, sorry, what really hits me. What really, what I remember really thinking about when I watched the video, was the moment where she says, sorry, I didn't agree to that about the tea towel. Sorry, can we cut there? I didn't agree to that. Like, it makes her look like a bitch and your immediate reaction is like,

oh, come on, Kira, like the scene looked good. Like, that's genuinely how you feel. Like, you're like, whatever, it looked cool when he threw the teetow. And that's like, if you had been the director, you'd be like, whatever, and he's like, I was caught up in the moment. Like, it felt the right thing to do.

And that is the, that is so much, so many women. so many actresses who came out and were like, this is how I was treated on it set, were like told repeatedly by, you know, that was like, whatever, like, I just went with it. Like, it's been telling me, like, I spat in her face. Like, all this, like, awful stuff that you can totally understand

because it is your instinct when the scene did look, when it did look cool to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, don't make a scene. But, like, and I think in the last couple of years, we've really learned to be like, no, don't throw the tea towel, obviously. Like, don't, you've got to learn to be, have the confidence to, you know, be, like, to immediately, just to, just to,

established boundaries. Yeah. That's not acceptable to me. I'm really sorry. And to immediately be the sort of person who not like the next week comes in and is like, sorry, can we discuss the tea towel? But like, and have how you've been thinking about the teetal moment and finally built up the confidence to say something.

You just need to be a person like as soon as those sort of things happen. Be like, sorry, absolutely not. Like, I don't know. That's not acceptable. I understand that you're upset, but don't speak to me like that. Like. Yeah, I find it really difficult when you raise your voice in the office. I find like everyone, it's incredibly embarrassing.

Can we go into another room? Exactly, and you be the sort of person who can just say those things immediately. Yeah, especially with the thing that I said in the email about doing stuff that, being asked to do stuff that you don't know how to do, being able to have the confidence to go, no one's actually trained me how to up how to do that. Yes. And I've never learned how to do that. So is, and maybe even framing it, if that makes you feel too, if you're a bit younger and,

again, I think it's an age thing, like I would have no problem saying that now. But when I was younger, I would not be able to say that. whereas you can say oh great yeah I'd love to do that and is there a possibility that I could get trained up on how to do it because that is implying that you haven't yeah I haven't received the training on that yeah as opposed to I don't know how to do that

and that's in some way my fault like you're in the it's their job to train you to do your thing so like be like absolutely I'd love to do that I haven't received the training yet so if there's space for me to learn yeah if someone can teach me that program yeah is there anyone in the office who does know and then I'll learn off them yeah yeah I think yeah it is again yeah again, it's all about that.

And not worrying about appearing bossy or appearing like a little madam or appearing like a bad employee because you've spoken out and you've said something. You don't appear like that anymore. I think more and more we are now, it's cool. Whenever like a woman says,

I probably wouldn't have the same reaction to Kiranautilis doing that now. No. Back then. Because now I'd be like, cool, yeah, great. And I remember so vividly at the time being like, shut up. Yeah, shout-up, Kara.

Also, I do find it quite hard work. I think, I've watched a film in the day, complete tangent, but I watched film this day. Collette? She was in. The War one? No, she was a while back, it's a while back it was like, because we were about the end of the world. King Arthur. Oh, yes.

And it was fine. I find her quite difficult to watch on camera, for some reason I find her very annoying. And then there was a blooper reel on the DVD extras, which I watch. And, um, of course. And when she was doing her lines, she was annoying. And then when there was the blooper thing, and she'd sort of giggle and say something to Steve Carls, she was like really normal and fine,

and it was like, oh, I think that's why I find her annoying, because she looks like she's acting. Yeah, I think the damage of, um, I'm just looking for one shot of me in a wedding dress where I don't look all blue and wibbley has done so much damage to that woman. And I look quite pretty, actually. Oh, that's, I look quite pretty. Oh, that's the word.

It's so bad, isn't it? And I think it's such a good impression. Yeah, it's because it really stuck with me. Like, terrible taste in pie. I think it has done a quite bad. It's done it as such damage. And I feel sorry for because I actually do think she's quite cool, but like I think on screen.

As a person, I think she's probably wicked. And she, I'm sure she listens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And imagine if she doesn't with her favourite secret podcast. We're just, you're so cool. You're so cool. We do think you've made some questionable acting choices on screen. But hasn't everyone?

But haven't we all? I definitely have. We've all done it. We've all done it. But yes, but the idea of it, I now challenge. constantly. I'm rewatching cheers at the moment. Oh yes. I fucking love it. And Shelley Long,

I think that's the name, who's the actress who plays the main kind of girl, woman in it, who's just amazing in it. She's so funny. The general consensus is that like, oh yeah, well, she was, she's quite a renowned difficult actress. And I'm consistently being like, well, that just probably means

that she didn't want to get a tit out. Or she just said like, oh, actually, I'd quite like my hair like this. Or like, oh, I'd quite like to, like, she was probably doing exactly what Ted Danson was doing and less. But that earns you a type of being like a difficult woman. Yeah, because you don't say a bossy man, a difficult man. Yeah.

These aren't like words that are men's words. They are like, they're women's words. Yeah. And I saw a great international Women's Day post by Maffaig Gal Crush, who's this model called Charlie Howard. And she's just, she's like a plus size model, but she's smaller than both of us. Like she's tiny, but in terms of modelling,

like she's doing a lot for kind of pushing good body image. But she did this thing which was like, go into your life with a confidence of like a middle-aged man called Dave who just doesn't take any shit, takes his top off when he's holiday. Because it's, my holidays, mate, doesn't think about his body, doesn't think about how he'll act. If someone at work gives him shit, he'll give him shit back.

And he doesn't worry about being fired because he's Dave, mate. Like, that's what you want to be like. You want to be not exactly like Dave, but you want to have the confidence of Dave. An internal Dave. Release your internal Dave. Dave inside. Yeah, hashtag Dave.

And... It's a channel, but... Absolutely. And I hope that helped Anonymous from not Tumbridge Wells. If you're a boss listening, maybe it helped you too. Yeah, be nicer and also think,

hey, what are my greatest fears and how am I maybe projecting those onto the workplace? Yeah, how can I be a more balanced, well-being person? A more balanced well-being person, that's what you should be. Yeah.

It's making sense, but... Stand up for yourself, say the things, You're not a bossy woman. Chat to you, work colleagues about it. Don't get too drunk and accidentally tell all your boss the problems. No, try and get them out immediately. Get them out immediately.

The less things that sit in your stomach, the less Sunday night will be unbearable. Yes, and see how you can change how you're responding to your workplace and see how that makes a difference. I think that probably will make the biggest difference. Tweet us at Stevie MBSS is a 5. That's me. I am Tessa Coates. at Tessa Coates. Yes.

At Nobody Panicpod. Follow us. If you have any ideas of future episodes, NobodyPanickpodcast at gmail.com, boom. And we'll see you next week, guys, for just some more absolute,

just fucking great times. Have a great, great time in the workplace. Have a great time in the workplace. Bye! Bye!