Nobody Panic - How to Do Online Dating

Episode Date: July 24, 2018

Stevie and Tessa wade through the deeply thorny issue of online dating - from how to choose a profile picture to how to leave a bad date early.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true, Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. And welcome to the podro. Do you want to do another one? Yep.

I should just go with my like normal one. Yeah, I know. Hello, welcome to the podcast. No, I'm back. Just do your classic. I'm back. That's really nice. A old classic.

Hello, we've been sat in this room chatting for too long. Yeah. We've got all our chat out of the way. So join us next week. Bye. Bye. No, welcome. Come on in.

Come on. Take a seat. Sit down, sit soft. Pop us in your ears. Welcome in. This podcast episode is about how to be good at online dating. Hozoing! I put a call out saying, like, any tips on online dating and got so many, I couldn't move.

Overwound. Couldn't function. I strugs to funk. That's from Queer Eye. I can't take that. I've never heard them say that. Yes, Jonathan says, strugs to funk. Yes, it's about online dating.

How to be good at it. How to get out of it. And also what not to do as well. You've online dated, haven't you? Oh, what a hot, hot burn. Yes. Is it? And that's the first thing they're going to be dealing with.

The stigma around what is very normal. Yeah, let's crack right into the stigma of it. Yes, it's there, isn't it? I remember, well, no, no, but like, you know, like 10, 7, 6, 5 years ago, it would have been... 1076? You know, in 1076. Yes. Post-battle of Hastings.

Online dating was... The Battle of Hastings. Online dating was such a stigma. It was really, like, it was all. always the punchline to something if people had met online or like in a, you're ashamed. In a sitcom, your weird uncle would have in the show, the weird uncle would arrive and he'd have met somebody online and it would be really weird. And now I was like, yeah, that's where we all met. So many people. I've been at a wedding recently where around the table, there was lots of people

in couples and I was like, and everyone was like, Tinder, Tinder, Bumble. Like, you all just met on and they're like a proper couple. Yeah. A real deal. No matter whether you love or you hate it, it's a system and it's a way to meet people that is. an ordered logical way to meet people. Absolutely. Rather than leaving an order chance, just hoping that some, like, some fit bod is going to fall through a window.

Yes, because I think we do everything online these days. Yeah. Why not love? Why not love? And also, it doesn't mean that you aren't, when people would be like, why don't you go and find somebody in real life in the bar or whatever? It doesn't mean you can't.

Real life. They're not fake. Exactly. And it doesn't mean you can't go and find them there as well. Yeah. You can carry on with your life as is, plus you've got this bonus bit on the side. Yeah, absolute bonus bit on the side. Yeah.

A bonus bit on the side. Right? Before we start... Swiping left and right. All over the place. I actually haven't online dated, so some of my jargon might sound... If you get it wrong, I'm here to...

Great. I've got you back. Wipe right, guys. Wax on, wax off, am I right? Oh. That was a karate kid reference. I don't even think I've seen the karate kid. What's your adult thing this week?

My adult thing is... So, long-time listeners, full-time friends, will know that I'm trying to, well, I'm sort of, I am vegan. I still use all the makeup that one would expect, and I'm very aware that not all of the makeup I use is probably good, but I'm trying to very slowly change it. It's okay, one piece of the jigsaw. I'm starting to get quite hot and upset, just thinking about it.

So, because I have been using eight-hour cream on my face for ages, and I found a swap, like a moisturiser and a cleanser, like I've been using it now for about two and a half weeks, and it's really great. Now the only problem is I don't have to pronounce it, but it's B-Y-B-I-B-Y-I-B-Y-B-A-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-I. It's roughly like the same price as the eight-hour cream anyway, which is great. There's this scrub of cleanser called Primetime, which is really great,

and there's also a moisturiser, which is my absolutely favourite thing in the world now called Babe Balm. And it's genuinely lovely, it's cruelty-free, it's vegan, and I just feel a little bit bad. better whenever I put it on. Yeah. Because I'm just like, oh, okay, well I know for a fact that that hasn't been in a rabbit's eye. Yeah. Essentially. And I think it's like, oh, if it can be done.

Oh, look, it can be done. Why isn't everyone doing it? Of course. And obviously, it might be a bit pricey for people. Like, I think the Baybom is like 25 pounds or something. And if it's too pricey and you don't have enough money, that's fine. Like, I use coconut oil and all as well, like when I haven't been able to afford things like that. but if you can and if you can stretch it

or if like for Christmas or for a birthday or like it just might be worth having a look at those things but obviously hey absolutely but it's always good to try just try it's just is there if one of your things that you were trying to do to be good to be gooder coconut oil on the bod though absolutely comfort you can't say no

slather it all over myself and then and cook a stir fry with the excess you've got to eat quicker than you think everyone because after a couple of months it does smell of parmesan cheese does it Oh great I'm really looking forward to that switch happening And I don't know

Everyone's like oh it sounds like Italy Yeah Yes it will happen Happen quicker than you think Okay Yeah I found an old dial the other day I was like oh perfect There's still some here

And oh no There wasn't It turns Cheez It turns My adult thing Is that I Have left a WhatsApp group

I left at 4am I woke up in the middle of the night And I just Like that I must I must And then I just didn't, there was no chance for me to think about it or panic or think, what will I say? To be like, hi guys, this has been fun, but I have to go now.

You know, I just left. And I didn't even notice. I didn't even notice. It's only me and Stevie in the group. Enchant to myself for ages. No, there's loads of people in it and Stevie didn't even notice. And nobody made a scene, like nothing happened. And so I just felt so, oh my goodness, I just felt like, whew, I felt so free.

And it was, it was magical. magical. It's absolutely magical. And so I think, and I had been being like, well, it's very useful and like it's good and I should stay in it and oh. But no. No, no. Get out of there. Exactly right. Really, really good work. Right. Before we get into online dating, I just want to do a very quick shout out to Sazloo, Lucy and Helena, all of whom were opairs with Lauren, who sent me a message. They were opairs with her in Spain and they'd listen to the debrief podcast and nobody panic when they were homesick. And they would make them feel. a hundred and eighty six thousand percent better yay you guys thanks do you have a thing yes I do I have some news we are doing some live shows we are doing the podcast festival in September yes yes London podcast festival 15th of September it's not not close to my birthday and we've got three shows up in Scotland at the Edinburgh Festival. They're on the 7th, the 11th and the 21st. At the pleasance. At the pleasance. And we're at 12 o'clock in the afternoon and we'll have three different guests on.

So if you happen to find yourself up there or if you're already in Edinburgh. Check to see if come and fun. We'd love to have you. I'm very, very excited about it. I'm very excited. Yeah, it'd be really, really fun. Right, let's swipe on in. Swagger into online dating. I'd like to begin with the history of it. Oh my God. Wow. Yes, please. Back we go to the medieval times. Jesus. Where Shepherds, yes, not joking, shepherds used to write, they were like, you know, out with their sheep's solo, long time, would draw on a tree the next time that they would be back at that tree. Yeah. And then people could be like, yeah, cool, I'll be here. And then they would.

Have sex with them? Maybe. I think that's probably, yeah. If we're honest, yeah. It was just like, like, left for them. Yeah. Good for them. If I was a shepherd, that's exactly what I'd do.

Yeah, exactly. So you just left your mark on your tree and you like maybe said something about yourself and wrote a little symbol or whatever. And off you went and then you came back around in the autumn and people were queuing up by your tree. Oh, that is great. Wonderful stuff. And also if you were walking down the hill and you saw someone sat next to the tree that you'd left your symbol on and he didn't like them, you could just keep on walking and pretend it wasn't you. Because there's no picture. Exactly.

But also I think if you were a shepherd and anybody waiting by the tree, you'd take it, I think. I mean, of course you would. You've been alone with your sheep for months. Of course you would. You take any human contact, I reckon. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I've, that's too much information. I was going to talk.

We've all been a shepherd. We've all been an in-cell shepherd. We have really much out. Yes, that's wonderful history. Oh, God, there's more. More, that's the end, though. In 1726, the first woman, people at men had started sending in lonely hearts columns. They had just started.

They'd be like, tracted for sale, also looking for a wife. So that had started in the newspaper Just like man this is my estate This is how much I own Because it's all about the money It was all about the money First wife deceased Looking for housekeeper

Maybe romantic like that It was like really to the point Make a bunk cake And also Can you bunk? Can you bonk? That's what we were here for Can you bonk

Bunt and love And then the first It's been happening for about 50 years Men doing it And then the first woman sent one in And she said Looking for someone nice to spend my life with.

Of course she did. And they sent her to the asylum. They sent her to the insane asylum. No, they didn't. No, they didn't. No, they sent a woman to the insane asylum. That is the worst end to this story. Oh, sorry, sorry. You didn't give me any notice. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, I'm sorry. Change your tone when a woman gets sent to an asylum.

Sorry. Sorry. Can you imagine if that was ending to one of my stories? Sorry! So how you did? Oh yeah, no, I actually, I took the bus and it was the wrong bus. So I got sent to an asylum. Sorry. But actually, I should have known. I should have built up.

I told that story. I didn't see. I didn't see that it was good. I'm so sorry. But actually, like all good stories are. It came out of nowhere. Yeah. Not you for six.

But also I should have known because at the end of every woman's story who does anything interesting in that decade of that century. It goes to the asylum. They got her out. She got out. And then she found true love. So is that help? I don't think she did. Did she?

Nope. No way. She died in those padded walls. No, she didn't die. She got out. Okay. She goes out. But then never mentioned dating ever again.

No, she was like, not for me. It was an online date, but I don't know what that means. So I guess what I'm saying is, no matter how bad... Oh my God, just punched the microphone and it's gone right in my boobs and I think it's broken. No, it's fine, it's fine. You've fixed it. So what I'm saying here is no matter how bad you think your online dating experience is, you're not in the asylum. You're not in the asylum.

And I think that's something we all... Actually, that's kind of a good thing for all, like, for like life as well. How bad you are? And even if you are in... Because even if you go to like a mental health facility, that's still not an asylum. No. And also, crucially, you did not get sent there for saying, I'd like someone nice to spend my life with. Oh, yeah.

It's the heartbreaking, like, simplicity of it. It's not like she was like looking for, like, looking for something weird and sexual at the time. Yeah. Looking for a dog to have sex with. Yeah, we're looking for a dog to have sex with, in which case everyone would be like, gosh, Helen, shall we have a chat? Shall we touch base there? But it was just such a nice thing to ask for.

And I think that. everyone deserves, which is why I think online dating is such a massive important thing, because we all want to be loved. We want it so hard. Actually, I'd say especially the people that say they don't. They want to be loved most of all. We all want to be loved. And this kind of online dating phenomenon is like the latest way to just, basically, everyone's

trying to find the path of least resistance to love. And online dating is the obvious way, but it's just so difficult because you have to wade through so much resistance in order to get to it. Yes. Resistance being lame dates and not knowing how to message somebody or like what, like what you're supposed to say. How can you tell they're going to be nice? And so we put out a call and you answered in your droves, which is also very helpful.

I've come to answer the call. I went on, would you like me to tell you the story? That was the one time. It was really good. It was really good and I'm so sorry I talked over it. Which liked to do it again? No. Okay.

I think you should. No. Okay. Would you like me to tell you the tale? I never tell stories, but I'm going to tell the story of the time that I went on one online date. Yes, 100%. Okay. I'm going to eat a mashed potato while you do it.

Absolutely. So the year was 2012. I can imagine it. Unfortunately, it was pre-apps, so I sound like a dinosaur, but it was OKCupid, which I think is still going. Wow. I was, I was, like, okay, I'll do this. And then, like, my housemates helped me to write a profile. And the profile was really like, you know, just like, I like Pesto.

and I like doing this and I don't know, hey, like very chilled out, just some things. Didn't realize, essentially the cardinal rule of those things is whatever you mention, you will get a message about it. And then you'll get a message every hour on the, every minute about Pesto, because you've mentioned a noun in your bio.

And they will cling on to anything. So I spent a lot of time just talking about Sackler. And then started talking to somebody who was a writer, and I was like just trying to be a journalist, starting out to be a journalist. I was like, oh my God, this is really great. Started talking about writing. I was like, fine.

okay, yes, let's meet in the pub around the corner. Did you have to go to sit down at your PC? I had to sit down at my laptop. Okay. Yes. I think it was also on my phone. Okay, okay. But it wasn't an app, got it.

It wasn't an app, yeah. You've got mail style. Yes, I had to go onto a website. Great. So I picked a pub near to my house, which I didn't say was near to my house. Was really like, oh God, okay. Like, obviously built it up a lot. We'd messaged loads.

I was like, oh, God. Got there, was looking around, saw him, immediately. It was like, nope, nope. Okay, well, I'm here now.

We're having, I'll have one drink and then fine. He couldn't, like, look at me. He spoke like this if he was so nervous,

which is fine. So I didn't want to be horrible because I was like, we were clearly really nervous. That's okay. I just talked at him for like,

I stayed 20 minutes, finished my drink because I was obviously like there was loads of massive silences so I just kept drinking my drink and then my drink was finished. I panicked and,

I was like, I need to get out of the situation. And I think the nicest way possible is to, like, come up with an excuse. Yeah. I couldn't think of anything. So I said I had to go and move some boxes. Okay. And didn't give any context as to why. Yeah.

And he was like, okay, great. And I was like, well, that's good because now he will, if you really thinks about it, knows that I'm coming up with an excuse, but I'm trying to be nice. So it's not like me being like, I don't like you, but he'll know, he'll get the message. Yeah. Got to move some boxes. I'd been there for 20, maybe like, between 25 and 30 minutes. Left the next day.

got a message being like, that was so nice, like, let's do it again. Sometimes, like, what? Were you in the same room as me? Like, it was awful. And then I thought, I can't do this. And then I ended up getting back with my ex-boyfriend who was horrible. So it wasn't a great end to that story. And then I got sent to an asylum.

But that was the only time I've ever done it. So when people talk to me about, you know, like the level of dates that people are going on. And, like, I got a message from Rachel, who said she dated 326. men in five years. No, Rachel. But no, you say no, but I've got a friend called Claire who listens, hello Claire. And she, maybe not the same amount, but she's certainly like, she dated as if it was a job because she works the numbers.

And because if you just like do cat, like I did one and never again, so obviously it wasn't going to be successful because I won't. And what happened to Rachel? Did she go to the asylum? She went to the asylum. The story then's well. Yes, so this is a great story. So she learned a lot, but mostly she learned that it's nearly impossible to predict which

ones are going to be dickheads. So you just have to go in with zero expectations and you'll either have nothing if he's a bell end or you'll be pleasantly surprised and you can just have like a nice drink and then like, you know, discuss it in your head afterwards. And the best bit, stop going for what you think is your type, which I think is a huge thing because I don't think people have a type as much as they think they do. Because people will come, obviously everyone likes a fit person, sure, but like there's a whole range of what fit means. And she said that she met her current boyfriend on Bumble and he was the opposite of her type but within 20 minutes of meeting him I was head over heels in love so you might surprise yourself which I think is a really great and that is like

326 dates in five years that's a massive amount and it's not necessarily going to take that amount it's not like you have to go on 300 dates that to define the one because it's such a it's such a gamble it's so random in the true sense of that word not in the oh my god like I'm so random that you could go on your first date and meet your husband yeah or wife or 325 or 300 or like But you just have to keep going because there are people out there that you can go out with. Yes, I think it's just a numbers, it's absolutely a numbers game. A numbers game and a psychological. And a psychological one.

And two things, one is that, yeah, I know a lady who pretty stringent about her plans always of like, this is what I want to achieve this year. I want to learn to cook. I want to learn this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to buy a house. I'm going to, this is my plan. These are the steps I need to do it.

Then she was like, I'm going to get married. That's my plan. Was single. Drew up a like schedule. God. Committed to it, dated like it was a job, found him, got married. God. So it's like, oh, okay.

You've removed all the emotion out of this. But it's totally achievable if that's your plan. Yeah. And you can, and I guess that Rachel is so confident with this guy because she's just, she's seen so much. Well, after like, I imagine after like the fifth online date, you just kind of know, you kind of can put little tricks in place to know how to, for example, get out of it earlier.

So I think that thing, like you going to this with the boxes. So a really good thing is to say, yeah, let's meet for a drink at six. At seven, I've got to go to at a party or whatever. I've got to go to my friends do afterwards. Yes. And so then you've got, if you arrive and you have that, because I've definitely done that, you've arrived and gone, no, absolutely not. No way. And I've had that when we were looking for a housemate and people would arrive who seemed like quite fun and chatty in their pictures on like spare room.

you'd open the door and I want to just be like absolutely not and just shut it in their face because you can just tell immediately when you meet a person and that thing you know when you arrive on your date he looks so weird you don't want to stay but you're like we're here we're here and I know I'm safe here I just have to survive this for an hour like that's all and I can survive

this for an hour I'll just have a conversation with this person is that feeling of being like every second being like how can I get out how can I get out? Yeah I can't concentrate I couldn't concentrate on anything because if you know it's just like oh it's an hour like I can sit with this weirdo for an hour brilliant that's a great tip yes to go in and say that you've you've got plans later but you can have a quick drink and maybe don't even time specific.

Then after 40 minutes you can like, oh sorry. Yeah, let's meet up. I've got to go to this thing afterwards but let's get a quick drink. Perfect. And it's an easy get out for everyone. No one's panicking.

And obviously if they are great, be like, fuck it. I don't have to go to. Literally fuck it. Yeah. And then if they're great, fuck it. Yeah, obviously if they are fun, you can be like, oh, I'll not go to that thing just yet. That's fictional thing.

And then it feels like, oh, let's actually stay. I'd rather stay with you. and what a fun time you're having. What a fun time you're having. I think as well, the nature of the date is something that people kept saying. So we had a lot of people saying, always just go for like a quick drink. If you don't drink alcohol, like that's fine. You can just, you know, there are other drinks available.

It's not like, well, I'm not drinking at the moment so I can't go to a bar. You absolutely can. But like things like going to see a film. Like, no, because you don't speak to them. Just like what I want to get rid of that one. Like that's absurd. Yeah, stupid. Because you meet, you have some popcorn in the foyer.

then you sit in silence for two hours. Yeah, and then you can't watch the film because you feel sick or you feel like, I'd like to talk to them more. It's ridiculous. But also like, don't, oh my God, my friend went on a Tinder day and brought him to a party.

And we were like, it was the first day. You're like, what have you done this for? Like now we all have to speak to him. Now we're on this day as well. Yeah, gross. So don't do that. Just quick drink. Always a quick drink.

Yeah. And if you aren't drinking at the moment or you don't drink, like say that before you get there, say that up front. And so that, you know, because I know people who've definitely been on one where they, they've been like, oh, a white wine. And then the person has got been like, oh, I'm not drinking.

So I'll have a sparkling water. And you're like, no, no, you drink. Oh, I won't. Oh, God. And like, now we're all in this sort of nightmare. Yeah. But own it as well to like, don't be apologetic about the fact that you're not joining. Exactly.

I'm going to get a Diet Coke and then no one cares because you're not going to get, it's not like if you're there for like an hour or so. No one's going to get pissed an hour. No, exactly. So just sort of like everyone be cool and confident with that. Yeah. Hit me with some horror stories, I'm ready for it. Well, it's not horror stories.

I want them. It's basically, it is tips. Here's a really great tip. This is from Georgiana, and she says, always arrange something nice to do the night you're meant to have a date. For her, it's maybe a gym class. And that way, if they cancel, or like, don't mess it on the day or ghost you, you spend the evening doing something for yourself instead.

But I think is amazing because... Oh, that's so good. Because then, yeah, because I guess that moment of being like, I hate it when plans are taken away. notice because I literally don't know I don't know how to respond and I don't know what to do and then I end up like going home and just having a really like unsatisfying evening sort of doing nothing but half doing things I think having a thing planned is such a great idea if someone does like cancel or if someone ghosts you I think it's very important to I've had so many conversations with friends of mine that that start with okay so I was seeing this guy and we're supposed to be meeting up on Saturday and he hasn't texted me since last Friday and I've sort of tried but like I don't know what to do it and it's just like do you want to go out with someone that doesn't text? next to you like this is for men and women like women ghost as well obviously and if if you're chatting to someone and they've just gone quiet the amount of excuses my friends will come up with being like oh well he did say that his sister and was

moving house that was genuinely one I was like think about what you're like when you fancy someone and when you've been like chatting or like also say if that's never happened a friend your best best mate in the world when you're doing you can always find time to WhatsApp them you You can always find time to message them because you want to tell them stuff that's going on because it's fun. Yeah. And you'll know the difference between like these people who are essentially trash and the right person for you because they won't be able to stop messaging you. Exactly.

And then you'll feel so silly because you're like, oh, all of this wasted energy. So basically if he's not, if they're not messaging you, they're not into you. No. And that's horrible, but it's just the truth. Yes. And hey, if they come back in like a month's time and they're like, well, I fell down a well. and you're like, you know what, fair excuse, then you can like start again. Start again.

But then the moment that ghosting behavior happens, it's a no. Like, it's a no. It's a hard no. There's something called the dick sand. It's like quicksand. And you just fall in it immediately. I've heard that. What's that from?

The film, How to Be Single. Yes. I'm sure it's been used. I don't know. Maybe they go out. They don't have a monopoly on dick sand. Maybe they do, though. Maybe they do.

That you meet somebody, and this goes girls and boys both ways, but like you meet someone. You're really into the. it means you just like fall into the dick sand and when you're in it you just sort of can't see the wood for the trees you can't see your way out for all the sand and that is the part of your brain where you start just like making up excuses so when they haven't replied you're like oh okay well I guess that's what instead of just being like if you were sort of normal ground you'd be like no yeah f that I'm not doing that like I'm not having putting up with this shit and I think when you

are in a really solid good relationship you're like oh whoa this is what it's like oh there's no games and the person just replies immediately and and just take that as red of like if you can, if you're not in a, if you're not, you know, wind surfing, if you actually are near your phone and they've texted you, text them back. It doesn't take anything. Yeah, don't you stop playing games because they've started playing games. Then what you do? If somebody sends you a selfie of them, you just reply with the heart eyes emoji.

Yeah. Even if you thought, don't leave a selfie hanging. Don't leave a selfie hanging. Even if you think like, yeah, what's that? Just, just reply immediately. Yeah. If somebody has gone out of their way to send you a selfie. Or like a nice picture of a dog that they've seen.

Anything. If you're interested in them, don't protect. that you're not ever. Just be clear about what you want. Then you've got a really nice, you've set a precedent. So if they're not clear back, really think.

So do you want to like spend what, five years going out with someone who's, you don't know where you stand ever? You don't know when they're going to message you. They're only messages at three in the morning saying, you up? Like you don't,

no one wants a you up boyfriend. Mm. Yeah, I'm up. I just sat up like a mere cap because some part of you does respond a very fit, like, you'll just like, yes, I'm up. That's the thing is like, no matter how much of that like,

one, don't pick up the phone. Oh my God, listen to that song over and over again. No matter how many times you're like, okay, number one, don't pick up the phone. As soon as that phone range, you're like, yes, hello? Hello, I'm up, I'm here, I'm available, I'll come to you, should you come to me? Like, you know, we're just sort of like so desperate to be loved. We're so desperate for human contact that no matter how much you're like, he's never going to hurt me again. As soon as they're like, should we go home together?

You're like, yes, immediately. Shall I drive? Shall I carry you? I can't drive, but I'll learn to drive on driving home. I'll hijack this car. Like, let's go, you know? like so just be forgiving of yourself and just try and look after yourself and don't you know get yourself in those messes with game gamers professional gamers gamers gamers just let yourself make

mistakes and no you're never going to get online dating perfectly right because it does perfectly right doesn't exist with this yeah i think like there's if you're single and you're sort of deeply single your friends who are in relationships will be like no don't settle for that shit and I remember describing it to somebody once as like it feels like I'm on a flooding like rock that's getting increasingly smaller and all my friends are in helicopters being like wait for a helicopter and then like a shitty boat is coming for me and I'm going to get in this boat actually thank you I'll just take this because then if you're in the boat the helicopter and I'm like I don't couldn't care less I'll take what's coming thank you you you're in the one

in the helicopter it's easy for you to say like also if you're in the boat a helicopter can still save you out of the boat it's not the end of the world I'm just want to get off rock please right now yeah um so yeah don't it's hard it's hard on it's hard life's hard but you just yeah you had to be kind to yourself but also there has to be a balance of like okay is this making me happy is it like do i go home with that person like uh should i go on should i persist with these with this guy or this girl who just isn't texting me back ever texting just just just just you just have to read that book they're just not that into you and you brutal isn't it but it actually really helps me in the case just be like nope

They're not. No. And if your brain has been like, but, blah, blah, blah, blah, but, nope, they're not into you. Just shut this down. Be brave. Get the hell out of there. Oh, the denial is strong in us, isn't it? It really is. Now, on a more sort of practical level,

we got a message through from Laura, who says, who actually ended up marrying someone that she met on my daddy. I went to the wedding. It was really lovely. Did you? Yes, she's my good friend from home. Home. I went to primary school with her. So she says,

which is good advice, don't like chat online text and WhatsApp loads before meeting just meet them or you'll have nothing to talk about and also then as well you're just like you're wasting time because you might just like you know people that you get on with loads over WhatsApp you might

meet and then you just can't string a sentence together or like it's like oh oh I don't know when you're texting telling me that you've never met all you've got is their picture and you'll move to pictures in one second but you've got their picture and you've got their words you've never heard their voice And so you give them a character and a persona and how they speak and you've interpreted all those, you know, you've made them way funnier than they probably are.

Of course. And you really like... For me, it's always like a young Colin Firth. Yes. I always think that they're a young Colin Firth and they're dressed like Mr. Darcy. And when I arrives, we're like, hello. And I'm like, oh my God. And it's never bad.

No. And so you're always disappointed because you've built them up to be something that they're not. And so you just, yeah, don't do too much. Don't do too much texting. And also, then as well, it layers the pressure on you as well because you're like, oh my God, what if they're, because, you're like, because let's be honest, our photos of online dating are the best photos of us. And maybe when we go on the actual date

and they actually meet us, we might be a bit tired, we might be just a makeup, might be a bit crap, you know? Yeah. That's okay. But the longer it's built up, yeah. Just get in the room as quickly as possible.

I don't mean the bedroom. I mean the drinks room. Get in the drinks room as quickly as possible. Get in the drink's room of your house and get them in there. Yeah, I think that's like a really good. Like nothing is as good as, nothing is as good

Or is he's useful as RL? Well, that said, I did meet this. Skype. No, no, no. I met this like unbelievably beautiful woman. She was so stunning.

She was a makeup artist by trade and she was so kind and gorgeous and lovely. She showed me a picture of her husband and her baby and I almost exploded. She, in the days, pre-apps, pre-phones, met on a I want to say an online snooker website

or something like really weird like that. where you played snooker. You obviously quite a community there. She was just called like, you know, tomato 868 or whatever. And he was called like... Classic snooker name. One of the classics. And he was called like...

Come on. Come on. Hop a long hair shop. Hop a long hair shop. He was called like... Yeah, that was great. And they were just messaging without even really knowing like what even gender the other person was. Right.

And she said that they did that and then eventually they told each other things about themselves. They did that for six months. then he flew to meet her and then they met in the airport and I was like if I had and then they had said they were in love on this snooker website like that's how much they were just by message

this is one of those like exception to the rules story let's just put that very clear yeah I think so too do not listen to this story turn off now and then I was like if I had fallen in love with somebody on a snook website

and I walked through the airport and they looked like that they were that gorgeous I'd be like done tick yep let's go let's go it must have been the most thrilling thing in the world Those myths are what propagates decision

I did hear it from the horse's mouth But those rare, rare stories Yeah, propagate the myth They're like Fall in love online Fall in love in the talking No Fall in love in the talking

No, just go and meet them Just go meet them, absolutely So say something about pictures Oh yes please Pictures, pictures, pictures Yeah Didn't you have a picture of a chicken For ages when you were on dating?

Yes And then also Tesla showed me these screenshots of a guy who was basically trying to get a picture of what she actually looked like and she just kept replying as if she was a chicken. The messaging had moved from Tinder to WhatsApp and my WhatsApp profile for reasons I don't understand because I didn't put it there myself. Oh really?

Yeah, I don't know how I did that. I just took a photo at random from my thing was a picture of one of the chickens. It was a weirdly, it's a picture of a chicken who's having his photo take. It's a chicken on camera. It's a chicken on a film set that's in the Barbie house. Yes, a lot of weird things are going on in the photo. That's the photo. And he was like, is that a chicken in your picture?

And I said, instead of being like, oh yeah, ha ha, I don't know how to change that. I just said, that's correct. I'm a chicken. So he was like, ha ha, moved the conversation on. I just absolutely refused to commit. I just refused to not stop. And I, he just kept saying things. And I was like, I'm actually finding it quite hard to type with my beats.

So. I found a phone and I'm just living my life online. Like, I was just like committed this like whole chicken character. And I guess if he had been... If he had gone with the chicken character, you would have gone for a drink with him, I think. We'd have gone for a drink. Absolutely, 100% yeah. And they're like, that's not a shame on him or me.

But like, we were just two different people. And he was like, this chick is literally thinks she's a chicken and I need to back off. And I was like, I'm just, I'm nervous and I'm just riffing on this chicken bit. And also, it was, you were bringing out some funny stuff. I was doing some of my best work. But he wasn't for him. Fine. He works for NASA, I think. I mean, they're not interested in chicken characters, I don't think.

No. No, it's a real shame. Anyway, pictures. Pictures. Very tricky, obviously. Just, if you, like, just go right ahead and put your sexiest photos up. Yeah. You've got an animal, put that in there.

Yeah, you've got, like, four or five. Do not put the group shots, no matter how fun it makes you look at a first of a, like, no one will know who you are and guaranteed you've got a sexier friend in that photograph. So, forget that. No pictures of you with your ex. pictures like you know crop them out if you need to but like I saw my friends Tinder and someone had um she showed me that someone someone had as their Tinder photo was them at their wedding oh my Christ okay okay no matter how good

you look yeah so just like sort of forget the context all the stuff about but I look fun at this and I look like I'm outdoorsy and I look like I'm thing just like just get as many pictures of yourself as you can as your face and like people will you know you don't have to sort of sell you feel you feel like like you're doing a sort of real CV of like I enjoy outdoor sports working in a team and all of this stuff like just be calm don't panic yourself and then similarly in your butt you putting pesto that you like to pesto or pesto don't put nouns in you don't yeah just be wary of it that like it is the only because people have written in to ask what should we say as an opening gambit particularly on bumble

which is the one where the girl has to start the conversation um which can be very very very tricky and then but really all often all you do have is um the nouns Or, yeah, if they've said, like, I'm into this, you know, once I was chatting to a stunt man. Of course. And I was like, hello, I have a number of questions about being a stunt man. Like, I don't even want to talk to you really. I just have loads of questions. But I guess he gets that all the time.

All the time. So, you know, on your side, you're like, how interesting? I'll pick up on this one thing. And then on the other side is Stevie being like, I was a thousand messages about Pesto every day. You know, so if you can just have a something short, don't try and be particularly hilarious. If you Google, like, best opening lines on Bumble, because Bumble obviously is the one if you're not aware, where the woman talks first, which I would say out of the sort of, would you say that the big three are Tinder Bumble and Happen? Or has happened just like for London media types? Happen, I think, has fallen into disregard. Brilliant. So Hapen's gone. So I'm not even going to explain what that is. Let's say, like, Tinder and Bumble. Hinge, what's that? For doors?

It's if you love doors Great I was just looking up specific ones There's things like Dating for Clowns Oh lovely Armish dating

You know Food Intolerance dating Food intolerance dating Mullet fans I'd say if you can only date Someone who's got the same Food Intolerance is with you Then it's not enough

Actually they deserve each other This is the thing I've thought of recently is that like We say like Clown dating people And we always were dating And always with the algorithms So they're like

We match you up If you like do proper Guardian Soulmates and say all the things that you like. What we're doing is putting people with the things that they like together. Be like, if you're actually out there looking for love, you need to match with people who you need to see the things that they hate. You need to see like the worst sides of them.

You need to see like their weirdest stuff and their baggage and they're like them at their, rather than like, you don't deserve me at my best shit. Like we need to see people at their absolute worst and then be like, do you think you could love this? Maybe that's so with your picture, I have like one sexy one, one homely one and then one of you snot crying

after you've watched queer eyes. straight into your Skype camera like your chin's really big I think that's why like relationships that are based immediately on that like would be intolerant to cucumber like I'm never going to survive because what else is there here yeah also I think a big part of relationships

as well which is why we're saying like maybe just don't focus so if you see someone like who also likes I don't know ice skating don't be like oh they'll be fine for me oh why didn't this work because we both love the ice yeah it doesn't matter the wide wide eyes

but because actually one of the good things things like again there's no actual algorithm for love that's why none of this is is all of it is foolproof so none of it is full proof and is that quite a good like a nice thing about meeting someone is that they'll have interests that you don't have and then you'll be like I'll do that I'll like tag along and then you're like oh I like it too now and you both like enrich each other's worlds it's not enough just to both love clowns oh wait is clown dating for people that both like clowns. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I thought it was like, if you are a clown, and it's really, obviously mine is way weirder. Oh, maybe it's that one. Because I would be quite wary of because clowns maybe don't just want to go out with other clowns. Yeah. And if they think they do, then they do. You need to spread your net really wide. Like, the advice before, you don't have a type.

Like, you don't. Even though you think you want to be on clowns. Mm-hmm. The classic one is people being like, I just love a bad guy. And you're like, great, good look with that. Nice guys are boring. You'll find a nice guy. and they'd be like, oh, they are nice.

They're just nice. I think it's like deciding what you're on, what you're on those apps for and being clear with yourself and also spotting the signs of what the other people are on those apps for. So if you're on Tinder looking for something to do on a Wednesday night,

you're in the right place. Like you're off. Tick. Get yourself one of those musily boys and away you go. If you're on there looking for love, then it's going to be a bit of a harder slog. It's not impossible.

Yeah. And also you need to let go of all of your expectations and all the things that you think you're looking for. And because remember that that other person, no matter like how weird they are or if they've, you know, ghosted you or treated you badly, they are just another human being

who's also just trying their best. And so I think love is realizing they're not like a sort of two-dimensional, superficial character who's like, tick, tick, tick, all the things I was looking for, my type on paper. Like they're a person with, you know, with flaws and failings and they're also just looking for love and they're vulnerable, scared.

Oh, God. Do you think that Bumble is a better one for people who are looking for a relationship? Yes, I think so. I think any guy who's on Bumble, yeah. Is more interested in an equal pairing of people and minds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. So Bumble is definitely one if you are here for something a bit more serious. Bumble is where to go and the boys are on there as well for that.

Hinge is you have a common hinge. You have a person. Oh, a person and a friend. Yeah, that's really good because that's kind of how, like, is the best way outside of dating apps, to meet someone who's like at a party or like a friend of a friend goes yeah you'd really get on with this person so that hinge thing does sound nice because then they're supposed that they're verified by a verifiable source exactly and then you're like oh I like this person and they if they're

their friend plus you can both message them and be like hello what's this person like yes yeah it's kind of some actual pictures of them place on uh Tinder it also is linked to Facebook so it does pop up say like you have this friend in common or whatever you can always tell when someone's on Tinder because suddenly their profile picture becomes very sexy on Facebook You're like Hi everyone on Tinder Yes

Mine is still Two ducks Yes two ducks Yes I've obviously got a poultry issue I would say on this opening line thing That be funny if you can I think when you read those like

20 best opening lines It's like nobody at their wedding speech It's like And she messaged me This good joke That was a pun on my name On Tinder No one remembers

And I thought This is the one for me Like no one really cares So like don't freak out about it. Ask them a question. I vividly remember taking my friends phone at a party and messaging every girl that they've matched with to say, what are your top three flightless birds? Again with the birds. Yep.

I see now a pattern. And some of them were horrified and some of them really got into it. And so like, you know, I think it's okay just to say, I think, hello, how is your day doesn't really offer. Do that thing. I don't know if any of you ever tried improv, but it's all about when you learn to improv, it's all about. about giving something to your scene partner. So it's not just to say like, hello, how are you? You know, because then the other person is like,

well, what's that? Like, hey, dad, where's the vegetables? Great, so now I know in this scene that I'm a dad, ooh, and there's some vegetables that we may or may not have gone missing. And we need to find them. Hello, and now it's up to me to be like, and now if I can call Stevie by any name I want and give her some stuff, give her something back.

And then she's like, great, now we're off and running. So try that with your opening gambit, you know, give them something to work with. Don't just say, hello, your picture is nice, or you've got nice eyes, or, you know, ask them a question, try and, I'm not actually got an example here of anything. Look, it's very hard.

I'd say, like, because also it fully depends on what the person looks like. So, you know, if they're, again, if they're photos of them, like, I don't know, with a dog, be like, cute dog, is that yours? Yeah, cute dog, yeah, great. So, great. Did you see what Stevie did there, everyone? So she gave a compliment. She referenced something specific, and then she gave a question.

So she offered and she gave it. I would online date more, let's be honest. But not a horror story, but quite a fun story that we can all learn from. Yes, please. Is Catherine, who went on a Tinder date to ZZs with a guy straight after work, both in smart clothes. It was nice, we didn't really have a spark.

A month or so later, she went to the same ZZZs. Isn't her a work? It's convenient on a different date with a different guy that looked probably similar. And then the manager was like, it's so nice to see you've come back together. And obviously then the other guy realized that she just takes all of her dates

to the same place. Which, you know, it's fine, but maybe go to different places. and don't have like one pub that you always take all your days do. Because I've worked in a bar and that's happened and I know and everyone talks about it. Everyone's like, oh, the girl's back. She's, the last one didn't work. And it would, yeah, all it takes is one miscommunication.

And basically you just want to minimize any awkwardness. I guess that would be counting as awkwardness. Yes. As I say, with you, I've got another point about writing your profile that people really turn themselves inside out, trying to, you know, get everything across. And I think, don't worry. Don't be weird.

Like me, I definitely have been, tried to be funnier sort of self-deprecating. Just trying too hard, isn't it? Yeah. And then come across bonkers, quite frankly. Yes, well, I mean, I think anyone who's listened to the last sort of, like, half an hour will understand that would be the level of birds that you've been thrown out. But like, the thing is as well, people who, um,

you will attract the right, per, even that, even you being like, well, I shouldn't have gone bonkers. again, if he'd have gone with the chicken character, you would have been like, this is interesting, dude. Like, he sounds like he'd be quite fun. Like, so actually, it doesn't really matter what you put out there. That's why you shouldn't overthink it, because it doesn't really matter if you try too hard.

It doesn't really matter if you don't really try it all. It doesn't matter if you put something on there that you like, that you end up not really liking. Because if you go on a date with, like, a person who you genuinely get on with, you can say to them, I said, like, Pesto, I actually hate it. And then it'd be like a funny thing. Or you know, all of the flaws and the things that you're doing in a quick quotation much wrong. it's not you and I think that's like the take home for all of online dating none of this is to do with you

you're not the problem the fact that we live in this kind of world the world and society is the problem and we're trying our best to connect with people in a world now that is increasingly disconnected yeah so so my friend who I told you was similar to Rachel who like went on loads of different dates like she for basically her entire 20s has been single and by single I mean like at most two months going out with and they'd always turn out to be weird not nice mean strange or they just disappear and after like you know late late 20s it was I it was I felt really sorry for her because she's putting in a lot of effort here and she's not getting anything back she's getting bits back but then it's not and then it goes and then that's actually worse if anything

turns out then she did be someone 10 years after being on on all of these things is like again it's not that I'm saying it's going to take you 10 years but it took her, like the kind of psychological ramifications of not finding someone, it really took it out of her. And she thought it was her fault and that she was rubbish on dates. She wasn't interesting. Her bio was wrong. And it's like, oh my God, it's not at all. Because the amount of amazing women who talked to me about how sad they are about online dating and how it's been an absolute nightmare. And the amount of messages that I got when I said that we were going to do this, people being like, oh, I really want to know about this because I'm having a terrible time. It's like, I think you have

terrible. It's terrible and you have to view it as like an add-on to your life rather than this is your way to find love. You have to be like, I'm doing this at the moment. I'm online dating. It's trash. It's terrible. Yeah. And so you have to have something else.

Maybe like when you sign up to Tinder, when you sign up to Bumble, when you start dating, also start doing something else for yourself. 100%. So when someone's like, you know, how's it going? You're not just like, it's, all I'm doing is dating. You're like, oh, I've started, I don't know, fencing. Absolutely. And I bet you met somebody fun at your fencing club. I mean that's the thing as well.

So like go and alongside, if you start, if you, for every app, for every dating app, I need you to be having a hobby. Oh, yes, a hobby. So match your hobby to your app and then you're like, this is what I do and I've taken up learning, go and learn something, go to a class, go meet new people, go to life drawing, go wherever. I think go and get out of the house because if like you are lying on the sofa. Tinder's a most big, biggest spike. Do you know what time it is? No. Do you want to guess?

Imagine like in the evening. What day though? Like Sunday when everyone's sad about work. Oh, you sometimes. smashed it, yes. Oh, is it? Yeah, six o'clock on a Sunday evening. That was just me going,

when would I want to go on Tinder? Yeah, six o'clock on a Sunday evening, people are hung over and sad and tired and they're lay on their sofa on Tinder and the usage just like rockets. People are just like relentlessly swiping, just being like, well, I want someone to hug me on this over.

And also, Tinder is no different to like Facebook and Instagram and things like that. They're designed to get you addicted to them. So, again, it's not you. It's literally you're being sort of almost controlled and manipulated by very clever, people who have coded it so that you can't get off it. And you've got in your head this idea that like if I just had the right picture,

if I just swipe enough times, if I just find this person, if my bio is right, if I just, if I just, you'll find this person. It's like, no way, that choice and that pressure is killing you. Like your grandparents probably married somebody from down the road and then live with them for 80 years and we're still completely in love right to the end. Like, you know, they certainly didn't have anything like the number of people, but you're like, oh, you find love all over the shop. Yeah, and in weird ways.

And it should be like a balance between, yeah, you make an concerted effort to find someone nice because you don't want to be single anymore, but it's not your 100% all, be all and end all. Yeah, I think you have to swap your mindset around, like if you go to a job interview or anything or you want something from somebody else, think of that job interview rather than be like,

I hope I impress them. It's like, I hope this company is right for me. Yes. I'm here to see if this is the right fit for me and all my skills, Shall I be bringing my wonderful self here? I talk like that on the day as well. Hello. I love ducks.

Any other questions? Shall we bow now? So let's wrap this up. Yeah, just remember that you are trying to find somebody who is worthy of you rather than being like, I hope I'm, someone picks me. And it's like, it's a really, really hard thing to do. So just like look after yourself and don't be too, don't be too mean. So I hope that was helpful.

and I hope that I just really hope that we've bolstered people who are like I've been on my 29 million of the day that's not happening I hate myself because you shouldn't

write them all down I reckon get a good story out of them Oh yeah get some top anecdotes that's true and just keep on going keep all your options open

and just yeah it's not you it's not you it's literally everyone else It's literally everyone else And be kind to your single friends If you're in a couple and be kind to everyone

Yeah Oh God, be kind to everyone, guys. Oh, God. So nice. But yes. Good luck on your dates. Good luck on your dates. Let us know if you have any lovely, happy ending Tinder Bumble stories.

Tweet us at Nobody Panic Pod or me at Stevie M. The airs is a favor. At Tessa Coates. Also, I believe you can find me on Bumble and Tinder. Oh, hello. You never go away. Do you never go away? Even when you leave.

Oh, my God, that's awful. I know. Great. I'll definitely be looking you up right now. Come and find me, guys. Me and Tesla will be on a date shortly. You can email us at Nobody PanicPodcast at gmail.com. Nice.

Forgot that. Yeah, have a lovely week and just keep on doing you guys.