Nobody Panic - How to Get Over a Creative Block

Episode Date: September 15, 2020

In a creative rut? Lost your mojo? Hit the wall and convinced you’ll never be able to make anything ever again? Stevie and Tessa are feeling exactly the same. They deep dive into the four causes of creative block, and learn how to get over it (or under it, through it, or all the way around it).Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. remanded for whooping too loudly and been made to start again. So these are some more demure whoo whoo whoo who who who who's hard with microphones having done a podcast for five years. It's hard to know that you can't just put your mouth right over the microphone and shout woo. It's not allowed. Very long. But you've been whooping but I've noticed that your response to being told to not whoop was very creative. Oh, thank you Stevie. Was it to refuse to not whoop and just barrel on regardless. Correct. Which sort of links into what we're doing to date. Sorry, my name's Stevie and I'm the co-host of Nobody Panic. I thought you could as call yourself the captain.

In a way. I'm the captain and I thought I guess I'm the vice captain. No, you're also the captain. Welcome to your flight deck today. The captain is Stevie Martin. Your co-pilot is Tessacote. And we'll be flying this plane. This boat. To, to Creativity Island. This podcast is all about how to get over writer's block or creative blocks or whatever it is you're trying to create or make or do in your life that you've hit a you've hit the wall and you think oh god i can't i can't go over this we're here get on the ship boat sometimes we have suggestions sometimes i live my life and wants to do a podcast about exactly what's affecting me at that point please also see how to cope with a hangover how to sleep how to nap, pretty much most of the ones where you're like, okay, that's quite specific. It's mine.

And the ones that you're like, how charmingly whimsical their tessers? So that's how you can tell. I mess with a suggestion for today's podcast and she shot back at such speed to say like, yeah, that is a good one. Or how about how to get over a righteous block? And I was like, of course, we'll do that one. Well, give us a watercolour, a blurry version of what is your... My issue. Yeah. My issue is that actually it's not just writer's block, but that's how it's very easily manifest itself because I am a writer.

So I'm working on numerous projects and had quite a productive lockdown. Look, I don't want to brag and people can stop ask me about it. But I wrote King Leia. But I wrote King Leia, which turns out, Shakespeare's done it, so I couldn't put it out anywhere. Oh, that's a blur, isn't it? Absolutely disaster. Oh, someone's come up with this actually. But yes, I had quite a productive lockdown.

Obviously doing this podcast and doing some other bits and bobs as well. It was quite like, oh, this is good because it was just my way of coping. Now we're sort of at this part where, well, I don't know, when this comes out, we might be in lockdown again, who knows. But at the time of recording this, it's sort of in this kind of in between bit where we're like, how many people can I see? I'm not sure. And workers are to sort of come up again.

And just before it did, I, we had like, me and my boyfriend had like a week away. And by away, I mean, we stayed in the flat, which. didn't do any work. And it was so good. And then when I came back to do, this is like two weeks ago, when I came back to do work, it's like my brain has been replaced

by a very thick mist. And everything I try and come up with, writing, I sometimes contribute jokes to things, can't, coming up with, even just like podcast ideas or whatever. I'm like, I don't know.

Like, I'm so bad now at doing it or thinking in general. But I thought I'd share some of like the best things that I've come up with. And also, Tessa, you obviously also live a creative life. You must have enjoyed a lot. Absolutely. Well, I was going to say, I think you're not alone in this. And I imagine we're speaking for a lot of people listening. We'll be nodding along being like, yes, I feel absolutely bananas. I feel completely bonkers. No, I can't do any, no, no, don't expect anything from me. My brain is a little marshmallow. I can't remember any words. I got very upset about that the other day because I was like, quite good at words.

They're really very much my bag. I like them. They're my friends. And then I couldn't remember the word for shell suit the other day, and I started crying. So this was a convoluted way of saying, we imagine that everybody is going through a variation of this to not stress yourselves out about it, and we hope we can offer some comfort and some strategies in this podcast. But before we kind of, I guess, go deep into it, what's your adult thing that you've done this week?

Mine's ongoing. I'll be, I finished it moments before, starting this podcast and I'll be picking the phone back up again as soon as we finish. I'm having a row with British gas and it is adult because it has been on my to-do list for months now and I'm in the right and the easy route out would me just to pay a 50 pound fine, but I refuse because I don't do it. I didn't, I refuse. Great. I will be arguing anyway and then they hung up on me, would you believe?

And then the phone rang back a minute later and I was like, oh, thank you. They're calling me straight back. They know we've lost the thing. and instead it was an automated quality and control survey being like, how did we do? I'm like, you did shit. Real bad. Stevie, what's yours?

Mine is, I went to see popular Christopher Nolan film Tenet. Wow. Yeah, that's it. It's a 15th, so that means that I'm an adult, right? No, the reason it's an adult thing is because I went in and was thankfully already sort of aware that I might not understand it. and watched it, loved it, could not have told you why they did anything in the final third.

It was like, lovely, don't know who you are, don't know what's going on, why are they going backwards, what's happening. This would ordinarily be caused for me to feel really stupid and be like, I'm an idiot, like this is, but actually came out and was like, read loads of things about it, chatted loads to people about it,

it found that really fun. And I know some people really dislike it because it's too confusing. And it is, it is definitely too confusing. But there's one thing going in, and being confused about a film. There's another thing going and being confused about film and going like, that means I'm stupid. And I think when I was younger,

that's what I would do with most things, with books. I'd be like, oh, this is like, you know, I'd try to read crime and punishment and be like, I can't get through it because I'm an idiot, but I'll quietly put it to one side and go back to my fun trash. And you're like, don't call books trash. Like, whatever you are enjoying to consume,

you should just live your life and enjoy it. But sometimes it's quite fun to like find out afterwards why. And I'm going to go see again with my new knowledge. and because I loved the set pieces and stuff I thought it was so fun so now I can see it and I actually know whoever it is. That's marvellous

and may I say that is such a huge personal journey for you to say these are my opinions and they don't make me stupid. Very big personal journey. Huge and I'm really very proud of you. Thank you. Oh God, right.

Anyway, like let's get into it so how to get over a creativity block. Whatever it is you're trying to make or do or paint or read or create your music or build or build something or maybe you're making something out of wood. Remember whatever it is. So back in the 1970s, Journeyback. Hello. Clinical psychologist Jerome Singer and Michael Barrios. What fun pair, they sound, looked into the idea of this creativity block and concluded there are four causes or four different versions of the,

the block. They are, number one, excessively harsh self-criticism. Basically, number one is, I am shit and this thing is therefore shit. Number two, fear of comparison to others. So, I am shit and everyone else is so much better. Number three, lack of external motivation, like attention and praise. Oh, big one. Yeah, huge, especially if there's nobody to read or look out or see your stuff. No one, you just want someone to go, you're on the right track, so keep on going. That's all you want. So, like, that's good actually, and it's going to be good. Very passionate about that one.

So that's external motivation. Number three. And number four is in lack of internal motivation. Basically, you've run out of the desire to make this thing. And you're like, I hate it. What's the point of this? This is, this is shit. So the four things are, I am shit.

Number two, everyone else is so good. What's the point of me doing this? Number three, nobody's clapping. Number four. I'm not clapping. I'm not clapping. That's, um, that's so good because that is. essentially, as you're saying there, I'm like, yes, that's, I have that, yes, yes, and yes.

So if you have all four of them, how can you expect to squeeze anything out? Do you think you're all four all the time, or do you think one of those? No, no, sometimes I, I think I'm always quite harshly self-critical of anything I'm doing, but sometimes I can go into almost a trans-like state, whereas I'm aware that I do that. So I'm able, which is probably a tip, able to be like, Like, you're self-critical about whether you've made yogurt. Oh, I mean, if I've made yogurt, what? When I've poured yogh into a bowl correctly, right through to a creative project.

So don't, as I've got old, and that is an age thing, just got, when you've lived with it for ages, you're like, oh, like, this is something that I accept that I will always do, so I don't listen to it that much anymore. But sometimes it obviously, I can slip into believing it, because you can't always be good. So you have to be like, well, sometimes what I do is shit. So is this one of those times? Because, you know, I go in and out of comparison. So I think I dip in and out of comparing to other people.

So I found it very helpful on social media to get rid of pretty much most of my contemporaries. And by get rid of, I mean mute. Like, I still follow people so I can like go, oh, I wonder what so-and-so's up to and kind of go on their page and have a look rather than have it served to me at like 9 a.m. when I've, well, I haven't woken up, and I'm in bed and being like, oh, someone was up at 6am and they've written an entire book in two hours, okay, great. But that sort of sometimes can rear its head. So the first two are kind of like in and out, but the lack of external motivation, like attention and praise, I think is something that is I really need outside reassurance. And with most of the things that I do, it's sort of very impossible to get that, really. So you have to have the

internal belief, which I consistently am like, why am I writing this or doing this? Who wants to hear this? Answer, who cares? And you're having a nice time. So it's like they all jostle for attention. But at the moment, it's pretty much all four of those things have very much come to the fall. So I think it's nice to see those things because the creative block isn't you not being a creative person. I've just read a really good book by Elizabeth Gilbert, who wrote Eat, Pray, Love. She's written this book called Big Magic about creativity. And it's so, it really like, I had this sort of thing about, I don't know, a few months ago, and I read it and it really like pushed me through.

So maybe I'll just read it again. It's a really good book. It's got loads about, it's got loads about how this stereotype of like you must suffer to be creative is such a self-fulfilling prophecy. So the more, so if you approach writer's block or creativity block with like, oh no, and then like drink loads of wine and completely like self-fulful. destruct, then yes, there will be a point where the writer's block or creativity block will lift, but it was going to lift anyway and it would have lifted much sooner had you not absolutely destroyed yourself for about a long. You don't need to break yourself or your work in this. Yes, and I think people as well often use the creative stereotype as an excuse to basically

not do work because actually it's time for drinking. I'm not saying that, don't drink you particularly, but you know, like, you can use like, oh, I've got writers block as a way to kind of of almost perpetuate the writer's block. Procrastinate yourself. Procrastinate and whatever. You do have to keep trying, but what I found out was really nice is that, like, the book, big magic and also the things I've been reading about creativity. What's nice about it is that, like, you cannot control fully when you are feeling creative

and when you are not feeling creative, but you can do things to kind of help it. and it's like a mixture of, you know, for example, writing or working even when you don't feel like it's going to come, but not putting pressure on yourself to do anything incredible on those days where you're like, I absolutely have nothing. You could work on something else. And I think this is one of the main tips that I kept saying. If you have like something that is just not coming or not happening, try and do something adjacent to it. So if you're writing a book and, you know, it's just not happening.

not, it's a pile of shit you think or whatever and you can't write anything, then read a book and then in reading a book, you might oddly come up with sort of ideas off the back of just reading someone else's work, not copying, but just like, oh, this reminds me of the possibilities of the thing that I'm working on. That's just one example. I find that either that works with anything. So if when I was writing, trying to write comedy, whenever I went to see a comedy show, a friend's thing could be a new material thing, it could be like, often it was like nothing. to do with what I was doing, not the same style, not the same anything, but I would come away and I would always, suddenly out of nowhere, have an idea, there wasn't anything to see what I'd

seen, it was just that I'd seen somebody be creative in the field with which I was being creative, which oddly allows your brain to kind of, on some level, go, oh, it's allowed, like what you're, there's so much, so many options, like, it's not, often you can get righteous block because you're sort of, you're thinking too narrow and it kind of opens things up. So that would be, like, my main tip, rather than forcing it through and staring at the blank page and trying to, if you've tried, like, working through it, which is always a good first line of defence, like, look, let's just, I'll just do an hour, that's fine. And that doesn't work and it's making you really unhappy. You're not going to create if you're unhappy and frustrated, you're just not

going to. So it's really good to see it as like research, just like any other, like lots of other jobs, like there's many aspects to the job and one of the aspects of being creative is looking and experiencing other creativity in order to get yourself kind of excited about it again. And taking some time off, but making sure that you're doing creative things when you're taking the time off. Because whenever I take time off completely, then it's sort of like almost it's frozen in time. And when I come back, I'm like, I'm still unable to. But if I'm like reading things, watching things and aware that like, I'm open, I'm open to the inspiration gods. Yes. And it feels like it's going out, stealing other people's things, but it's not.

It's just being open to your own inspiration. It's never going to happen staring at a blank wall. You're never going to suddenly answer your questions. You've got to go out and be inspired. And I also think going to see other people's things is also the perfect answer to that number two thing, which is like everyone else is so amazing. Why am I bothering? When people ask us about like how to get into comedy, I always say like, take yourself to an open mic night and see how incredibly low the bar is. Like it is.

When I was just by myself, I'd built up all these people to be. so amazing and so fantastic, but really, when you actually watch it and you're immersed in it, you're like, oh, okay, like, yeah, some of it's great, but some of it's an absolute dog shit. Like, okay, I'm, I'm allowed to do this, you know, so you feel more confident and more able to be like, okay, okay, actually, I can't do this. I did a writing course, like, just like a six week online one about six months ago, and one of the tips that the woman, the main woman, that's real, those people who run courses, said, was when she's writing, when she's writing a book, she, she looks.

likes to read bad books. And she's like, I know it's very on, it's not, what's the word, it's not like a tip that people will often say, but privately that's what a lot of writers do. And that works with anything. Because then you go, hang on, if that got published, I'm flying. Exactly. Exactly. Taking whatever it is you're working on, be that, you know, my dad is trying to make these plant, these very elaborate plant boxes for my mum that she saw somebody somewhere have and they cost 600 pounds and he had that like, oh, I'll make them. And it turns out to be quite difficult, and there was a reason they were £600, anyway.

Anyway, then he says, he called the other day to say that he'd seen somebody, somebody else in the village was making something. And he'd heard that he was making this cool thing and everyone was like, well, so great. And then he saw them. And then he came in and he was like, they were shit. They were really shit. So he came home like full of beans ready to like make his thing again because you get

into your head. We catastrophize and we're like, oh my God, they're amazing. They're doing this. And then actually you see it and you're like, oh, hey, hey. Yeah. Me too. I'm allowed in. Not everyone's a genius. Everyone is just like you. Just like failing. Yeah. Even Shakespeare wrote some shit plays. Have you seen Henry the Fifth? I even think The Tempest is very boring.

Shut your goddamn mouth. The Tempest is fantastic. Yeah. I'm so dull. But this is why art's so great. Of course it's not dull. I think it's dull. I think it's dull. Right. Okay. Sorry. I know people that love the history plays and think they're like the best one. So that's what I'm saying, like, what you're watching or reading. The reason it's got published is, or the reason it's got, it's made it to the level that you're watching it is somebody liked it. So it's... And somebody else stayed in the game long enough to finish and to just keep going, just to keep moving away. And often that's all that separates you from the people you admire is just like they just kept going until they had something to show for it at the end.

Yeah, and it can feel that tip of like, oh, read or watch shit. It can feel cynical and mean. not that's not the point of it. The point of it is to be like look at how subjective art is so that you know it's not that thing that you're watching is not objectively shit

it's just that you don't like it so that's like a really great market you're like well then it allows you to be free and the whole thing is about trying to be free. My dad skipping home because somebody else in the village had made a shit plant box is not that he is like

oh it doesn't reflect in any way on the guy made the thing. It was just like a freedom to be like, I can go back to my work now. I don't have to, you know, it's all personal. It's not about the other person being bad. That's not in any way what it's about. It's about your own. It's how you view yourself in that moment. If you're working on something and it's not working, is there something else you can do within that project that was helpful? So with a book, if you're like, oh, I've had to scrap it and start again, rather than just like write out what you're going to do, is there like characters you could work on? Or is there like, Because you just like think of a title if you haven't got a title or like even just, you know, draw the book cover or write the blurb for the book.

It's not always just one thing you can do towards your end goal. So that's sometimes helpful as well. I can give you a chance to work on other things. And then that can lead you back to the main thrust. Absolutely. Step sideways. And yeah, exactly. Draw the book cover or whatever the equivalent is for whatever you're working on. You doesn't have to always just be this relentless like plowing yourself forward.

And equally I saw them, so suggestion that like if you, you. you can't get through a certain bit, or you need to describe an elaborate piece, a set piece perhaps in Tenant. And then perhaps Christopher Nolan wrote, basically this, a sentence, and then just move on to the next bit. Come back to that thing that's holding you back later

and just like, just, you know, you'll have to fight it another day, but just move on for the moment and get to the next, like, exciting bit or the thing that it pleases you to do. You don't have to just sit chugging through something. You can just go around the wall, the creativity wall,

turns out. Yeah, and it's very hard to remember this if you are. I know that I will often forget this or pretty much all the time because every element of my job is creative, but it feels like a job. So it's only when I consciously remind myself like, this is fun. And you're like, oh yeah. Imagine you're doing the thing that you're trying to do, but you're a kid. So you're like, it's the same process. So when I was little, I would like write loads of things. I'd like make my own magazines. And I'd like, and it would be fun because there'd be no outside voice, there'd be no anything. I'd just be like, oh, so I'd do a lot of brainstorming and stuff. Like, do that, make a collage, make doodle things.

Like, try to step away from the kind of scary adult pressure that even when you're not doing anything, the project for money, you can still, there's a real pressure for it to be good and worthy and noble. And actually, creativity doesn't have to be any of those things. It can just be fun. and I think as well now especially, but maybe it's always been like this, but there's a pressure for a lot of creative projects to have like a very important message or a story or a thing that will make people go like, oh, okay, with a very low voice.

But actually it can just be silly or it can be just funny or it can be nothing. It can just look nice and that's just as valid. So to try and get away from that like, but I want to make great heart capital G, capital A. you don't have to and actually often you will without trying when you were making your magazine who was it for? Oh it was great it was for all women

so I had a section in it it was a fashion magazine and I would draw the little people the little models modeling all the clothes and I had like a page that was like over 60s I think it was called like I can't remember I think it's literally like over 60s fashion because I'd know I'd always terrible headdimes and I'd draw old people in like funky clothes and put things like just because you're 60 doesn't mean you can't wear a beret.

Oh, adorable. And who received the magazine? I didn't give it to anybody. Exactly. And that's the answer is like we've got to get back to the spirit of being like, nobody, duh. It wasn't for anyone. In my head, obviously it was distributed across the country. But like it wasn't.

Yeah, but you, when you were making it, you didn't. ever think of people mean about it or liking it or anything. You were just like, this is it. I'm making it. I wanted old women to wear berets and feel that they could. You've got to get the word out. Say nothing should stop you wearing that beret. Stephen King writes about the closed door.

I mean, he probably writes it in a more spooky way than that. But it's both that they are your door of your writing room or your workshop or your building site, I don't know, should always be closed. both as a physical and mental thing that's like this is this is just for me in here like this thing that I'm making the process is it's self enjoyable the door is closed it's not for anyone else to be looking over my shoulder and saying like what's the shit magazine you're like it's for it's for the over 60s like it's it's all about you privately doing something for your own joy and finding joy in it and writing for yourself and he says if you do feel that it's for somebody let that one person metaphorically come into the room and be there for you to write for or create for or draw for or whatever it is. But it shouldn't feel like it's the eyes of the world, you know, looking in through the door. I think with all of it,

it's just a case of trusting that it's going to come back. Your creativity is not gone forever. I have definitely had moments during this of staring at the ceiling and being like, well, I'm a marshmallow. Like, I got nothing to give. I just trust it's going to come back. I sometimes used to feel like my,

like I've been through this before of like running out of feeling creative. And I used to imagine my mind sometimes as, like a panic control room, like Jason Bourne style. Like a lot of people working, a lot of people filing things, a lot of people like looking for stuff, everybody's go, go, go. And when I'm like firing on all the cylinders, it feels like everyone's totally in control and everyone's like got it, we're go, go, go, go, go.

And at the moment it feels like the entire team have left and there's just like one night janitor called Steve just like sitting. He's got a lot to offer, but he doesn't have the confidence to bring it forward. So obviously I'm feeling nervous that Steve is in control, but I think I've just got to be trusting that Steve is like, hey man, like we're just, they'll be back. They will be back, you know? Yeah.

There's a lot of monitors blinking on and off. Yeah. And a lot of like looking at monitors. That's what I feel like. And then all the monitors go, boop. And I'm like, oh no, okay. There's no screens. I don't know what to do.

But they will, they will come back. And while you're waiting, you and Steve, or whoever you is mentally controlling your room, like going to something else, All the things suggest, you know, like it's that sort of take yourself for a walk, go and do something with your hands, go and make something totally different. Just like check out of this for however long you're able to. Yeah, it's like taking an active break rather than making that a choice, a creative choice, rather than going, I'm scared and I'm just not going to do it. And that it doesn't work.

And it's so weird that it's exactly the same thing. It's just your perspective has to be more active than it does passive for the creativity to just seep out of you. Bullshit. It's absolutely bullshit. The whole thing is mad because it's all, it's treated with such reverence, but essentially it's just like some thoughts that someone's having

and sometimes they don't have the thoughts and then they have the thoughts again the next day. That's essentially what this is. It's so easy to like treat it with such reverence of like, your muse and then like artists being like drawing the muses of great writers and out. It's all just, it's all just coming out of your brain and the moment you trust that your brain will have another good thought

in your lifetime, you'll be absolutely fine. It's when you, and I used to do this, so I'd be like, if I had an idea, I'd be like, but that's it. I'm not going to be able to do anything. Like, I remember when I did my first Edinburgh show and was like, I actually don't have any more jokes. Like, I can't, I don't. And then I did another one.

You're like, well, where did all those jokes come from? It's like, well, because you just live and you just, that's just what happens. Like, you just have a notified. And one, a final thing as well is that, like, I find it very helpful to, and this is something that might not be helpful, or definitely not be helpful for everyone. Because I know that my, for example, boyfriend, who's also a writer, does a completely differently. So like he has a place that he writes in like a little room and he goes there and he has like hours and that he keeps. I find it really unhelpful because I get overwhelmed and feel like

it's too, oh, I'm sat down to do my writing. So I sort of like have to trick my brain and ease myself in by being like, I'll just like put up my, just get my notebook and just like write something. And then the moment I feel like, oh, actually I'm ready to do something, then I sit down. Whereas sitting down, but I know a lot of people find it very helpful to have that kind of of routine, but I find that it overwhelms me. So which is just a great example of how people work so differently. And also, when you Google famous people and the writers are very successful creative types and they tell you their process, they are editorialising that.

That is also not how they work. Like, if someone asks me how I work, I'd be like, yeah, I just sort of like jot things down into a notepad, like occasionally, you know, and then I just sort of transform that onto a word document. Like, no, I don't. I've missed out all of the days where I'm like, ah! And the times I'm like, I've drank Jewish wine. And I've missed out all of those things because that's not simple answer.

So don't look at how another person does it and go like, well, it's much more round the houses for me. It's not straightforward at all. I'm terrible. Like it's not. It's just nobody acts. It's like when someone describes their working day in those magazines. I rise at four. I rise at four and I check my emails while I'm on the treadmill.

And then I have a little bit of granola and half a yogurt. And by that point I'm at my desk wearing a mix of the high street and designer pieces. I love, Karen. miller. Exactly. And then at home, it's either I either have fish or rice and chicken. You're like, surely there are other things in the world.

You can't every night. And then we sit down for a box set and I'm in bed by 10. You are a liar. Nobody has that life. Also, not all of you can have the same life. You can't all be eating the same thing. You can't all be eating the same thing. That can't be everyone.

And I was like, of course you might aim to do that. But like, what about the nights where you're like, fuck it, I'm going to order in some tacos? Like, we're not talking. If they ain't fish rice or chicken, we ain't having them tacos in the house. Thank you very much. But it's so, you can't like condense a process, any process, any human process into one single defined thing. Like it's every day when you're creative is different.

And every day is good, bad in the same day. So you can have a really great writing day or a really great creative day. But also you've forgotten like the hour that you were like, I got, this is terrible. Like so you, it's very don't, essentially it's all about don't panic. That's the whole. Literally. Nobody panic. Deep panic. It will come back.

I think this is the it to sum up. If you're in number one that you yourself think you are shit, listen, there's nothing but us telling you that you're not shit. That's all we got. You ain't shit. Go and see something like, you ain't shit. You're good. You have to hang in there.

Just trust. Some things you'll do are shit, but so something's everything. Like, it'll be shit. It's not shit. Like it's almost like irrelevant. It's just, you just have to do it. It's irrelevant whether it's shit or not. Put it out.

Yeah. If it's number two, you're so, you're so convinced everyone else is good. Go and look at their stuff. and see some things that are bad. Take inspiration and see that like actually, that was actually quite shit. Read a bad book. Look at a bad table.

Other people are shit. And then if it's, you're lacking the praise, get a friend in to clap your work, whatever it is. Just get some, show it to somebody. If it's been completely private for so long,

show somebody just to have a human being, laugh or point or be like, that's beautiful sanding you've done on this. I've made a shelf recently, so I'm just obsessed with talking about sounding. And then if it's that you've run out of passion for the thing, trust in the you in the past that really believed in this idea or really believed that this was good and just hang in there that like it is good and sort of do that sort of step away,

write characters from a different perspective, you know, do the free writing, all of those that draw the book cover, like those sort of things to be like to reignite that, that passion in yourself. You thought it was a good idea at one point and so you believe that this, you can go through this. And it's not about smashing through the wall, it's about just gently going around it to the side. I hope that helps. I mean, I feel like that might, well, time will tell. Time will tell. But I think I, listen, my very final thing, I was making this shelf and I had some tears because I did it completely upside down. And I did it completely wrong. And I thought, oh, fuck it. I'll just keep at an angle.

But I thought every day I'll look at that and think, that's what's that? And everything will just drop. I keep the shelf at an angle, the one thing that I don't know you can do. That has to be straight. I'll write this book, but I won't put any words in it. I honestly was like, I'll just put the books right to the back. And I had to take it all off, drill my holes again, fill up the ones I'd mess up with polyfill, blah, blah, blah. And then when it was done, I felt so like, oh, that was easy, I'll do another. And it's exactly like childbirth or creating literally anything. It's horrendous.

And in the moment it's done, your brain is like, oh, that's easy. I'll go again. Like, that was nothing. You forget the pain. You forget the pain. But, yeah, we're going to go back to other suggestions unless I have some more life events. in the next week. It's like how to put on a new shirt

because he was wearing the same shirt for about a week now. That's unfair. Also, I have to say they are, they are, they are pajamas. So what's happened is I've just not got, it's been three, I've won the same jamas for three nights.

Look, no shade here. I think, is that fine? That feels fine. Of course it's fine. But I didn't get changed out of them for the whole day. So that is actually gross. Anyway, fine.

Please do follow us on Twitter. at Nobody Panic Pod and me at StevieM the S's a 5 and the pyjamas are dirtay I'm at Tessacote's I'm in day clothes but they're also filthy I'm wearing... Just see women who can't wash

lovely! Why? I'm in a filthy sort of smock has got very big pockets, I'm really into it I'm at Tessacote's the Gmail is Nobody Panic podcast at gmail.com We'd love to hear your suggestions we love reading what you write to us

by all means get in touch on by all means. Please do if you've created something and it can be anything. Learn to do anything. Learn to knit. Put up a shelf. Made a yam.

Learn to do gardening. Anything creative that you had to, you hit that hurdle. Made a yam. I don't know. Maybe you go into gardening. You had to build yourself a little yam shelter.

I don't know how you make yams. Great. Listen, whatever it was you were trying to make and if you hit a hurdle but you managed to get around it or through it or over it or under it, we'd love to see the finished product. and tell you that we're proud of you.

If you also have any suggestions for future podcasts because what if something doesn't happen in my life? Sorry, sorry, sorry, of course. We are working through. We should check in their Gmail sometimes we don't reply and that's our fault, sorry. And that's on us. As on us, we're reading all of them.

We really enjoy your emails. Have a lovely week, a lovely creative week. You can do it. You can do it. We believe in you 100%. Thank you. Wonderful week. I believe in you, Stevie.

I was going to say, I love you. I do. Bye. Bye. Bye. Hi, I'm Gina Martin. a campaigner and writer. And I'm Stevie Martin,

I'm a comedian and writer and also we're sisters. We are sisters and we're doing our new podcast Mike Delete Later. It's a podcast about social media, about going back, looking at your embarrassing ones, things you like, things you don't like,

and we're talking to all different times of people. So many different times of people. We've got writers, we've got comedians. Maybe we'll get a politician. Maybe we'll get a dog. Maybe I'll talk to a plant, deal with it, who knows. It's like a little snapshot

into people's social media lives. Yeah, and hopefully it will make you think more about how you use social media and how you feel about it. So do subscribe on all of the platforms that you usually get your podcasts on and visit at Might Delete Later Pod on Instagram because we're going to be putting up really fun videos and the things that you didn't see in the podcast episode. Ooh.

Exciting. Thanks, dudes.