Nobody Panic - How to go vegan

Episode Date: May 14, 2019

The planet is unfortunately on fire and the most helpful thing we can all do is stop eating meat. Stevie (a vegan) and Tessa (certainly trying very hard to be a vegetarian) dispense some pearls of wisdom. Plus vintage fur coat shopping, the history of lab-grown meat, and a new Russian hat for the podcast mic. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Hello and welcome to Nobody Pants. The Tortoise. She's here, she's roaming around, you'll probably hear her. Our living producer.

Yeah, she doesn't do anything. She's dog shit. It's the worst producer. She's on the payroll. She's making back. She's making back. We are, it's been an immersive experience. We are filming it in my flat as ever. So I apologize if there's any background noise, weird children sounds. I've got a lot of weird children in my flat, guys. She keeps them here. I keep them here. Tell us about the nice hat. Oh yes. I've bought a high. hat from a podcast mic and it looks like a Russian socialite of leisure. It looks exquisite.

It's beautiful and I just, apparently it's supposed to stop because whenever me and Tessa laugh was this big like, like, oh yeah, a little bit noise. It's supposed to stop that. But also, I think it just looks so cute. It looks so good. So glamorous. It really takes your breath away. And it's so much softer than you imagine.

Yeah, it's not real fur. But today's episode we're going to do is How to Be Vegan, which, you know, it's a topic very close to my heart because I'm constantly trying to do it. However, before we start, we're doing a live... So we're going to go on a break over summer from June 10th onwards and to signify the end of this... Well, suppose the beginning of the break. We're doing a live podcast on the South Bank at the Spiegel tent

for the South Bank Festival. It's going to be so fun and it's on the 10th of June. In the circus tent. We don't know what the topic is going to be, but it'll be something really great. Probably make it up on the day. Probably make it up on the day, yeah. as normal. But yeah, so tickets are, if you go to our Twitter page,

or if you just go on the South Bank Festival, Aude Belly Festival website, you can find it on there. Just search for Nobody Panic. And just we'd love to see you there. We'd love to see you. It's going to be our sort of last hurrah. With us. Before we enter hibernation, I'll be hibernating.

I also won't be doing the next couple of episodes. Tess is going to rope in some co-hosts because I'm taking some time out to become a wellness blogger. I'm not. But like, I'm just taking some time out. But then I'll be there for the live one. Any fans of Stevie Just come on down and cheer me

It'll be me and Alison holding the fort Yeah, I mean, sure So, before we get into veganism What? Come on down! Come on down, A, B, what's your adult thing? My adult thing is Twofold Oh, yes, got myself an oyster

Great Delicious, no, an oyster card Okay I've been using my credit, my debit card Okay And then thought, I think it actually is cheaper If I put a bunch of money on Oyster card for non-London listeners

is where you tap in and tap out of the old underground tube. I've used my debit card. Contactless. I'm 2019. And I, 2010, I've got myself an oyster. So it is cheaper. Because it turns out, I've also got this is why it's twofold, the young person's

rail card, the elder group. Oh yes. I was like, hang on. Other 25 year old. Sophomore year. The returning, what's it called when you are an elder learner? Oh, post-grad. Yeah, post-grad.

Mature, sorry, mature student. So I'm in the mature young person group. Dave 25s. And you can stay, yeah, no shame. So if you take the train ever, it's so useful having one. But you can also attach it to your oyster card. That's great, yes. So that means you get a third off all of your underground travel.

Oh, my God, guys, get an oyster. Get in. Yeah, if you are under, I don't know, 30 is that? It's 20, the young one is under 25s, and then the older one is 20. The older group. is so tragic being in the older group. The 26 to 30. Okay, fine.

That's great. Yeah, definitely don't use you. And it says you have to register it and I was like, oh, boring. How long was that going to take? Two minutes. And I went to a man. Just found any old guy to help out. That's how you register.

You just ask a man. And he'll show you. Ideally, he is a TFL worker on the underground and he just presses some buttons for you. And then bing bang, bong. And you're traveling. That's it. That's it. What a great afternoon that will have been for you.

Cool. Great. Is your adult thing? Wait, was that twofold? I felt like that was one fold. No, the first fold. The oyster. So connected it.

Yeah, and the connected. The first fold is the getting the young person's rail card, and the second step is taking the further step to be an adult woman travelling on the underground with an oyster card. Okay, I really like that. I've forgotten my mind. I've forgotten my mind.

Just take a moment. And my adult thing is obviously, I've already mentioned, bought a hat from a podcast mic. It's a fantastic thing. Thought about it, bought it. You have been thinking about it for a really long time. Every time I edited, I'm like, what's that horrible sound? Just like, get a hat.

Get a hat. But I think taking the actual step to doing a thing that you've been thinking about for ages, is so tricky. It's so huge. Every day you're like, oh my God. Yeah, that was very true. And you write it on your end is to do list, but you actually did it, Stephen. I'm so proud of you.

I didn't. Thank you. I'm going to cry. If those tears, I could not drink them because they're animal products. It was a weird segue. better than mine, which is just vegan. Yeah, those tears will be pure and environmentally friendly. They will be.

Because you're a vegan. Thank you. Well, no, I'm quite bad at it. Because, so, yeah, this is a shit vegan. But if you're not interested in going vegan, I think it'll just be a great laugh. Do you know what I mean? I think stay for the gags. Stay for the gags, as always. But I think...

But go vegan. I think every one of us should be making a step towards it yeah that is so true and I think it's something that even if that is just like one night a week

you're like maybe I won't have meat exactly that's a positive so it's sort of one baby step in the right direction and also it obviously gets a terrible rap being a vegan and then in the last couple of years

it's been very much the sort of mainstay many many many comedians have done a joke to the equivalent of like are there any vegans in tonight No, of course there are. We'd already know about it. Oh yeah, well there's another one like two week. They fainted. A lot of that. It's good stuff because the average comedy audience is like, yeah.

It's another burger. Denise and off the office is a twat. She's a vegan. And unfortunately, sometimes there is a crossover. Yeah. Between the twats and the vegans. Oh, but there's twats everywhere. Absolutely.

But when you do find, of course, it's like when you, it's like, it's no way to say that if you're a vegan, you're a twat. Absolutely not. But sometimes you do meet someone really annoying. And when they're a vegan, you go, of course you are. Of course you are. And that is such a shame. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

And you're like, oh, what a shame for the vegan community? Who are, without a doubt, doing the best thing. Doing the Lord's work. Doing the Lord's work. So for us to be like, the boring group. Well, so with the climate change thing, which we're not going to go too deep into, because it's frightening.

Tess has got some scary facts. The world's on fire. The world's on fire. That's fact one. but we now sort of for ages I think I felt a bit like oh yes climate change in the world is quite bad but there's so many things how which one to pick what what can I do to help and then now we do know now

it's air travel eating meat and don't know there was another one oh having a baby yeah that's probably quite a bad one as well it's less it's less having a baby so I was looking into this oh yeah it's more molding a baby yeah it's less than having a baby because if you are yourself having a baby or desperately want a baby. It's more the responsible living of the baby. Yes. There's a statistic that are like 12 billion people,

even though that obviously the population is expanding and that's an enormous rate. And good luck to everyone. And good luck to us all, is what we say. You know, there's however many billion of us. We could quite easily live contentedly and happily and not fuck up the planet. No problem.

And a million people could do untold damage. Right. So it's less about the having the people. It's that when we have the people, you raise that baby responsibly. Yeah, and it's actually, it's so difficult because things like just nappies, like, you know, yeah, of course you could get like compostable nappies, but they're like so expensive.

And that baby is going through some naps, you know? Absolutely. Racking out that shit. So you need to change them constantly. And just that, I mean, there's a million other things. But like, it's nothing is set up for normal people with normal incomes or below average incomes, especially. You have to just buy the cheapest stuff,

and the cheaper stuff is bad for the work environment. A McDonald's cheeseburger, it's 89 pence, it's absolutely delicious. Or you could go to Whole Foods and spend $4.99 on a cacao bow. Bowl. A bowl. A one tiny ball that is the size of a ping pong ball, and you'll eat and be like, well, that was rancid. I went to, there's a theatre in London South Bank, quite close to where we're doing a live podcast,

called the National Theatre. And I went in there, just popped in there for a... snack. Popping a show? Just pop into the National for a cacao. For a cacao. But I'm vegan and there wasn't anything there that I could eat apart from like a pot of hummus but nothing to dip it in.

So I was like, this is rubbish. No, because there's no spoon and it was like, I don't want to be seen it in the Nash. The Nash. Licking a hummus bowl. Licking hummus bobbing like, oh. So I bought, I was like, oh, there's this new sort of like vegan chattelotelot. Cool, bought it, $3.99. And it was the size of my finger.

Like it was tiny. And then when you opened the sustainable packaging, it said, you've just planted a tree. I was like, well, that's nice. Thank you. But why can't we plant trees with, like, cheap chocolate? Like, you know what I mean? Like, why are, why is it only rich people who were able to buy, and I'm not even a rich person?

I'm nearly choked when she said, $3.99, please. But I was so embarrassed. I did the thing that I always do. She was like, great, absolutely bargain, if I'm honest. Well, once you bought me a chocolate frog from a sweet shop. Oh, yeah, did I? Yeah. Did I complain about it?

No, you didn't. You kept it quiet. Right. But then it was like a Harry Potter chocolate frog. Yes. And I said, thank you. you, that's what a lovely treat. Thank you so much. And then the back said like, 799. And I was like, Stevie, did you pay this much for this frog? And you were like, oh yes.

And I was like, why did you do that? And you're like, because at the till, she said it was 24, three frogs, 24 pounds, however. And you were like, I was a bargain. Thank you. That's great. Thank you so much for your time. I get very upset at the till and I can't back out. No, well, so what number one, back out at the till? Yeah, how's to go vegan? Number one, back out of the till. How the strength are back out of the till? Number two, one of the problems of fantastic corporations, like these tree planting, shitty chocolate people is that when you try and do a good thing, people get themselves very into

doing all of the good things. Yes, absolutely. So it's like, we're doing this vegan chocolate and it's like, and therefore our paper needs to be sustainable and we don't have any plastic and we used to do all of these things and then the cost just rack up if you're trying to do all of the stuff perfectly. And that's kind of the same as a person

if I, for example, I was going to say I am, I keep saying like I'm vegan. I'm not because I struggle when I don't eat eggs. I struggle to get protein in, so I get quite ill. And that's not, that's just me being a bad vegan, because you can get enough protein. That's one of the things that people are always like,

well, I'm a hundred-e protein, you absolutely can, but I'm lazy. And as we've spoken about, many times on the point, I don't really cook very well. I'm not great business. Whereas if I have like four eggs and an omelette in the morning, you're like, right, well, I'm on my way, I'm a go. In order to offset it, my guilt, I have to buy incredibly expensive eggs. That's just my burden.

That's how I choose to offset. They're like, oh, God, I buy eggs. I just buy, like, I don't know, they're all, like, named. Yes, this is Barbara. If you are trying to get into good eggs, the Burford House, the Clarence House. That's the one that I get.

They are good eggs, aren't they? Prince Charles selects them himself. Oh my God. Wow, that must take so much time. Yeah, it's why I look so tired all the time. He's exhausted. He's trying so hard. But, no, it's so easy to do various, like,

loopholes, raising chickens. Yeah. that are like, they're organic corn fed chickens. You're not like, how delicious. But it was like probably injected into their eyeballs. Yes. Out of, in a gauge. Happy eggs, guys.

Happy eggs are the absolute worst. I don't know if we can go into it because I get really upset. But guys, just don't. Yeah. Just not for now. If you want to, I think all of these things, if you're like, oh, but I want to know more, why didn't these girls do their research? Oh, we have.

We've done it. We just decided. We made the choice that we didn't want you to know. Ignorance is bliss. Yeah. Just take the Berford House chickens. Yeah. Or, or what my main point was, so I beat myself.

up a lot about the egg thing. I don't know if you've noticed, but if you're vegetarian, you're vegan, or you literally say you're anything, I don't know, a celiac, anything, and then they see you eating something like, so the other day I was eating a waitrose, vegan, plowman's cheddar. Platter. Platter. Platter of what? I was using a plowman's cheddar, cheddar plowman's sandwich that is, but it's not,

it's vegan cheese. And I ran into somebody that I haven't seen for a while, but like, I do know. And they were like, oh, thought you were vegan? And you're like, that's a vegan, it's obviously, because I am a vegan, it's obviously, because I am a vegan, just like, get off my back, do you know? And then your eyes just turned black. Did you just, I just turned black. And then blood ran down the face. Lightning comes out of the heavens.

It is vegan. It's vegan, actually, because I'm a vegan. Like, people are so quick to kind of jump on people. So say if someone's vegetarian and they decide like, okay, well, you know, I'll have some shrimp. And they're like, I thought, well, I thought you're vegetarian. So what, you eat, you eat shrimp now. You're like, come on. Let people live.

it's really difficult to do this stuff. There are only about, I think there are only like 500, I think I saw the, there are 540,000 vegans that we know about because I mean, no one's asked me if I'm vegan, so no one knows that. Doesn't it that we know about? Well, like, how do people get that stat? Where's the stat come from? The veganism society.

There's only 540,000 of them? Yeah, full vegans. Where in the country? In the UK. There's 1.2 million wikens. I can't believe there's only half a number of vegans. This is just according to the latest research by the vegan society. But apparently it's been going up, but also there's nowhere to register that you're a vegan,

so there'll be way more than that. The point is, is that, like, we're very quick to label ourselves being like, I'm a vegan, and then you're like, no, I'm a bad vegan. Or I'm a meat eater, but, like, I just spent my whole life in feeling guilt about eating meat. It's like, it's not our fault that we've been put in this situation where we've spent, like, the first however many years of our life being like, eat this, eat this, do this, fly everywhere, here's some plastic, isn't it great? And now it's like, by the way, all of that is actually killing the world.

And you're like, but I've literally grown up with it. Now, what we're supposed to do? So we have to just try our best. I think on the, oh, I thought you were vegan and you're having a shrimp issue. I think part of that stems from, if you look at like Extinction Rebellion, for example, who are protesting up and down the country recently, bringing climate change to the four because the world's on fire and we've got 12 years. And not before the world burns.

just everyone is before it becomes, the tipping point. Before it becomes, we've passed the point of no return. Again, have a look. If we start going into it, we'll talk very, very fast and start crying. Because we're all very stressed out about it, so just keep it like, keeping it like. Anyway, so Emma Thompson, you all know Emma Thompson, Nanny McPhee, and other work. That's the first one you went for. The one which is unrecognisable. I can, actually.

She's the love actually plot that you always cry at, because Alan Rickman's cheating on her. Is it love or, or is it? love. Okay, because I haven't seen love actually. No, is it love? Actually? Or is it, no, when she says... That's Hugh.

That's your good boss. That's Hugh Grant, he says, Love actually is all the hand of us. He says, everybody does say actually as well in it. Dang. Yeah. It's just facts. And also in all of Richard Curtis's work, his first girlfriend left him for a man called Bernard.

So there is a bad character called Bernard in every one of his movies. That's good. Anyway. Veganism. Other quotes. So she comes down to the protest and she's talking and she's wearing a dungarees and she's been all cool and wonderful

and you know various tabloids ran with you know climate protester Emma flew here on a plate everyone was saying that she was a hypocrite yes it's what always happens everybody you know you see lovely incredible Greta Fennberg

amazing girl with the yeah I know yeah I mean she's also the leader of the extinction of rebellion absolutely but also has pigtails but crucially the pigtails, everyone. And to which, you know, as soon as a child comes to prominence who is, like, unquestionably doing the Lord's work,

you know, who's without failed doing a good thing. Trying to save the world. And rather than getting behind her, you know, all these, uh, mostly old men come out of the woodwork being like, my mother was in Eurovision. Like, who gives a shit? Like, what's that got to do with anything? My mother's a baker. Yeah. Yeah, you're like, so? Like, it's basically the

throwing stones from a distance, like, rather than... And the embarrassment of having a 16 year old telling you exactly what you know, and you've done wrong, then you've ignored. And rather than look in the mirror and say, gosh, you're right, I am bad, it's like, ugh, actually, I want to... You're weird.

Rather than just letting somebody be higher than you, you're like, I need to bring them down to my level, rather than me trying to raise myself up. Yeah, absolutely. It's good, wise stuff. It's good, wise business. Anyway, veganism is a simple thing that you can do, but it's not, you don't have to go full vegan,

but like, it's a simple move towards it. And since I have been attempting, it is easier than I thought it would be. The only annoying thing is everyone being like, oh, how do you do that? And you have to talk about it a lot. People ask you like, oh, so you're vegan. Oh, so what do you eat? Why do you? And you're like, I just don't want to talk.

Why? I don't ask you what you eat. It's quite a weird question. So number one could be don't say. Don't say. Don't tell anyone. Don't say anything. And if you could begin at home and be a vegan in the sheets.

A vegetarian in the streets. A vegetarian in the street. A meat eater up the clock tower. A meat eater of the clock tower. hour, a meat eater at your aunt Janet's. Sure. Who's gonna say, oh, what will we feed you? Everyone's like, are you jolly allergens?

And everyone's like, oh, shut up, don't say that. If it's easier, you know, just to be like, no, lovely, whatever. There's a steak there, I'll eat the steak that's been made. Thank you so much. So maybe that's much easier and less stressful than being like, I now give myself this label, maybe remove the label. Yeah. And be like, if I'm, you know, you stop buying meat in the supermarket, whatever.

But if you've gone to someone's house, much easier to be like, thank you for this lovely La Cacelia. Of course, yes. But of course, you know, you don't have to. You can also do it in like a fun way that's just like, oh yeah, I'm vegan. And then when they ask just be like, it's boring to talk about, isn't it?

And then they will agree because it is boring, and then you just change the subject. And you just say something like, it's 40% of all the carbon emission in the world. And it's more than all of transport combined. Isn't it? Yeah. All of transport combined. Meat?

Meat. The production of meat. Jesus. Jesus. It's the felling of the rain. It's obviously the methane from the farts, which is so funny that it's very hard to take it seriously. and it's the felling of their own forests to make the fields for the cows.

Oh, God, okay. And then it's the transportation. I think that's the thing that you say in your head. The water is the big thing, isn't it? Also, like, people are so quick. Like, I ordered a vegan thing. Oh, no, I didn't you, I just ordered a thing. And someone was like, oh, you're vegetarian.

And I was like, yeah, and they're like, he vegan. And I was like, yeah. And then it sparked this whole thing where this guy was like, it's actually worse to be vegan for the environment than it is to not be. Oh, God. I don't know if you know, but almond milk uses this amount of water and I was like, I don't drink almond milk.

The thing is, and also even if I did, shove it up your ass, mate. I read those extensively because various people I follow on Facebook, you know, in the same way of the, rather than attempting to raise to your level, I'll just cut you down, put out the like, oh, veganism is actually the world's for the planet. And their arguments were like full straw man arguments.

They were like, this is nonsense. Yes. When he said that, it was like, oh well we don't have any um this conversation isn't going to go anywhere good because you're not correct yes so i can't do anything here if you think you've read like one statistic on lad bible and you've decided that that's the case yeah but all the scientists saying the best thing you can do is go plant-based and not fly and you're like actually flying's great for the environment you're like well great i can't really talk to you then can i think it's probably the end of this relationship

goodbye so then i divorced him oh twist we're women women were madman Twist. What a twist. What a twist. Absolutely a whiplash from that. You do want to go vegan. I think the easiest thing to do if you do eat meat now is to do it as ever in stages. So you just try to transition into vegetarianism first. Maybe it shouldn't have a label. Maybe it should be called progressive plant person. Progressive plant. When you want to turn into a progressive plant person,

oh, I feel like that was worse. Yeah. A pod person. A plant man. A leafman? Plenty. Oh God, that reminds me of my dead plant. Planting. I wonder why. Yeah. Not even, okay, you know what, no labels. Just, in stages, first just try to get rid of meat and try and look for, and don't think about, like, looking on the labels for whether it's vegan or not,

but just look for, like, meat substitutes. Because there are some that are bullshit, but there are some that are around, like, for example, corn mince is actually genuinely great. Like, bolnese, things like that, and it's got loads of protein in it, and it is very, you know, it's really good if you're, sort of transitioning into try and kind of eat less meat. Also, it's quite fun, I found it quite fun going to, like, I don't shop at places like Waitrose, but sometimes I'll go in and I'll just get the kind of fancy meat substitutes from there and everything else from Tesco.

I'm Tesco in the streets. Waitrose in the sheets. Absolutely. But waiters, when I'm eating meats. There we go. And some of them, you're like, that's bullshit. So I would argue, I would say, like, don't go and be like, I'm going to buy this one sausage. And on that rests whether I get rid of meat. Because that sausage could be balls.

It could be, like, a rubbish one. But there are so many different varieties now. It's quite fun to like try it out. So like if one doesn't work, I'll just try it, try the next one. Now I've found loads of things that are actually really tasty and really nice. And some of them are very close to me. Some of them aren't, but they just don't taste. They just sort of like give the meal a bit of a kick up the ass, you know?

And there's, yeah, there's so much. But I don't think you have to, you have to just like see it as like a fun challenge, not as a thing that's going to be like, well, this is absolute nightmare. Because it isn't. The only time it is a nightmare is when you are eating out. That is a nightmare because nobody wants to go. go to like, you know, the vegan place. It doesn't have a name.

It's just a symbol. And, God, I went... Fed by water. Yeah, there's that place. And it's really nice in Dostin. But trying to get someone to go there with me. I've only... I've eaten there four times.

It's been on my own every single time. That's for the best. It's for the best. Yeah, I think eating out is like, we'll deal with that in a minute because that's quite hard. But in terms of buying stuff, you can just see it's like a fun challenge. And just don't worry about eggs.

Don't worry about, like, milk. If you're like, well, I love cheese. That cheese is the hard one. So you can leave that last. Or if you're like, I hate cheese, don't care about it. Get rid of it first.

Like, pick, you know, pick your own thing. Pick your battles. And then if you, if you can't give, like, if there's something you just can't give up,

you're doing better than somebody who's not trying at all. Yes. You've come, you've come one percent of the way, and that's better than zero percent. Absolutely. So, so if the thought of finding, like, a corn sausage or something

does not excite you. Remember that the... Excites me. Yes. I've realized that sound very lame there. So you find it really fun trying to find it. No, no, no. You do, I'm just saying, like, it personally, I don't want to have, like, a, so if the idea of a substitute doesn't thrill you,

a lot of Indian meals are already vegetarian. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and say a lot of Jamaican culture, a lot of Indian food, a lot of, like, the areas. Turkish, like, falafel, like, all that. It doesn't have to be that, like, plastic bake, that bacon, whatever. Oh, God, I can't stand that, yeah. It doesn't have those things. You could have a Turkish breakfast that has, you know, aubergines and hummus and all delicious.

Absolutely. Stuff doesn't have to be. there's a really good book called I could never go vegan and it's a good like starting off point for like recipe books because it's got like loads got like really good like desserts and stuff in there

it's also got like quite simple meals and through that and you just start like looking at loads of different vegan meals because some of them look really boring sure a mushroom on a bun that's not a vegan burger but people will tell you it is but there are so many great Instagram profiles to follow that have just X some recipe ideas and also there's this great place called

a great profile called Accidentally Vegan and there are so much stuff in just normal supermarkets that you don't realize like Oreos are vegan for example like things like that's cool and so you can you don't have to eat boring shit at all. It's like when you try and go gluten free you can buy like

the really quite crappy like gluten free flour or you can get this fantastic chickpea flour this amazing chickpea flour that obviously just makes it more sort of a savoury thing but you can make sweet stuff with it That is really cheap and really great. It's good for you. And it's really good for you. And it's been on the shelf for 50 years.

It's not a response to the gluten-free movement. It's like it's already good and nice. And so if you go into a slightly different aisle in the supermarket, you're like, oh, a treasure trove. There's all this stuff here that isn't like trying to pander to a market. It's just like already is plant-based. Naturally plant-based. Yeah.

Yes. And also the moment you start going on like, like you start following those Instagram things and looking online, you see like, it's really helpful seeing people chat to each other about like, oh, this is a substitute that worked for me. Like, I didn't realize, like, I don't... Everyone knows how I make a mug quite a lot. Put loads of ingredients in a mug.

Put it in the microwave. Put it after 90 seconds. Have time for life. But, like, you know, you put eggs, so I don't really make cakes, but make very simple cakes. But, like... Oh, you're talking to the inventor of pan pudding,

so don't mind me. I thought you're looking blank, but actually, you were just like, yes. I was just agreeing. But, like, a mug is quite something. If you can't have eggs, and, like, if you're making, like, a proper cake, for example, like, if you don't want to use an egg,

you can use apple sauce and you can use a banana. So there are things that are just genuinely like just as easy as cracking an egg that you can put in a cake and no one will know the difference at all. If you're somebody who doesn't really bake very much and like it's like more like ready meals

and like there's loads of those now so accidentally vegan's excellent because it just shows you like all the ready meals in like Morrisons or Sainsbury and Tesco and also of course waitrose where you can just grab stuff and like you'll be in a lot of hummus. If you're into hummus it's good news

because hummus is the best. If not, try and like it. Try and like it. Or tune to the different dip. Guacamole. Make your own. If Anthony from Queer IceElt is nothing, is that if you smash an avocado, it becomes guacamole.

It becomes guacamole. It's fine. Also, there's this other thing which lots of chefs use, even not because it's vegan, just because it's better and creamier. There's this mayonnaise called veganase, and it's a little bit more expensive, so it could be a treat,

but it's absolutely excellent, because mayonnaise was one of the big ones. I was like, I don't feel like the eggs and mayonnaise are happy. I feel like those chickens were not having a good time. So I'm trying to, like, eat the Berford, whatever they're called, the lovely brown with, like, orange jokes. I think it's Burford House.

I think it's Berthard House. Oh, there's also Clarence House ones as well. It's just delicious. And they just taste so much nicer as well. And try and, like, get rid of the eggs. When you see in a product, like it has egg in it, I'm like, do I really want this? And if I really want it, I have it.

But if I'm like, no, I'm on the fence. I just don't. Because it's just, and then that makes me feel like, well, I'm doing something. I'm trying in some way. And also, like, yeah, people that I know who still eat meat, they have, like, two days a week, they won't. And it kind of works, I think it's...

I think that's the way to do it, it's be like, oh, on Mondays, yeah, start with Mondays, and... Because that's a boring day anyway. Yeah, oh, no, I hang away a minute, because on Monday, aren't you like, oh, God, I've got to go back to work, and then you might want, like, a lovely bacon, that's a tomato sandwich.

It feels like meat's very comforting for people. Like, sausage and mashed, because it's, like, Monday's shit. Whereas if it's, like, a Wednesday, you're like, oh, don't care about Wednesday. Make that vegetarian. Who cares about Wednesday? You make really good points.

Choose your day at leisure. Choose your day at leisure. Choose your day. We can't dictate to you which day. And then it doesn't feel overwhelming because it's just one day. You can do one day, if I got to say. And then I would make a list of your most high priority. I'd start with the meats and then when you're feeling braver,

transition to your dairy and make a list of like starting at the top, like the things that you will find the hardest. And I imagine like burgers, bacon. steak would be high contenders and then cheese cheese but if you're like chicken you know what goodbye chicken

and then you're like oh great I just don't eat chicken yeah yeah yeah that's the thing I don't do that's a great start and then it means that when you're in a restaurant I don't eat chicken and because we have them but also and it's the least environmentally helpful one to stop having chicken but it's also was the easiest one for me so I was like

and also when you see them walking around you don't want to eat them coming in the kitchen to say hello It's hard to eat a chicken, but I've never really liked chicken anyway, so nowhere am I impressive over here. But it's so easy then, when you're looking at a menu, your eyes just skim over chicken because you're like, I don't eat chicken. Yeah, I did it really easy. My, I was switching out milk for oat milk was like the easiest thing in the world,

because I'm not that, it tastes sort of the same on cereal, and it's kind of fine, but I know my boyfriend really likes tea, and the idea of not having normal milk and tea is like, no, I don't want that, so that would be difficult for him. But like, you might be listening and being like, I live and die by the chicken. I must have chicken. I love it.

I have it every single day. In which case, fine, which is the one that is your, where's your give and take? In which case, give it away. Pretty much all of the advice for how to go vegan is like slowly transition. And then each time you can be like, okay, just re-evaluate. Okay, so what am I eating is there anything that can grow? And is there anything that, because also, weirdly,

your taste buds adapt with you. So I found out, I didn't go vegan because of environmental reasons. I am allergic to dairy and I didn't realise for a long time. It was quite ill. And then genuinely, cutting out cheese made me very upset. Like, I found it so upsetting. I was really, really sad. And then I found BioLife cheese, which is like, it just tastes like EDAM, you know, quite like just plain cheese.

And it completely revolutionized my whole life. Like, it was so amazing to find something. So, well, because cheese is like, you know, you have beans on toast and then you shave some cheese and suddenly it's a meal. Yeah. If you put hot cheese on anything, it's a meal. It's a meal. It's a meal. That was actually the salad.

Pasta with pasta with pasta sauce and no cheese. It's like, I don't know what's going on. Like I don't know what's happening. My meal's bald. My meal is bald. That's the hardest thing for me, but I still managed to kind of like find a way. And now I'm, now, like, as there more and more cheeses are being made and like all of the supermarkets have their own, some of them are. horrific. My God, but some of them are amazing. Like,

um, Violife has a new feta, which is genuinely gorgeous. Like, it's so creamy and delicious. But now, when I, I've accidentally had cheese, um, like, once or twice in the last, like, five years, and it tastes odd to me. So my taste was completely switched, which, sure, that could sound quite upsetting and sad, but actually, it's quite good because it means that, yeah, you just, like, adapt. It's like, like, when, people have had sugar for, like, a year, and they're, like, actually, it's, I find apples really sweet now and you're like, God, you're boring, but also how have your tastehood's done that? That's amazing.

If you slowly make your way, then your mouth will catch up. Sounds weird, isn't it? But it is true. Start your feet moving? It is true. Towards a different aisle? Yes. The other thing that people forget about vegan is it's not just what you put in your mouth. Oh, no. God.

So, leather. Yes, okay. And wearing animals. If you're somebody who's listening, you're like, but I can't live without my newly shot fur. coat like well I dunno just don't do that I think if you're wearing new fur like there's a reason people get paint thrown on them like come also it's quite horrifying like

sometimes I see the little paws on it and you're like awful it's awful people genuinely still do the thing where it's like oh look that's a head of an animal if you're doing that I think don't do that I think that's one of the easiest switches fake fur dreadful for the environment really really bad because all like microfibers and they'll just get everywhere but like it's better than shooting an animal I think. The old fur. Old fur! Oh my God, it's there.

Go into the bin. Go into an old woman's bin outside of mansion. I'm guessing that's way I'm going from. No, vintage shops. Go to vintage shops. Go to a car boot sale. But I think it's still weird. Like, because old fur is like, oh look, that's the fox's head on that scarf.

And then if you wear it, you look like, you're from the Game of Thrones, the North. Yeah. It's too bad. It's not good. I think that's, it's not a fashionable thing to wear an actual animal, is it? I think if the, no, no, no. I just think. Like a black fur coat though, sure.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, there's no paws or little feet or hoofs. No, like a coat. And given that it's already there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, then you're... I'm saying if you fancy a fur coat, you go get an old one for heaven's sake. Yeah, of course, absolutely. It'll be £10,000.

Probably pay to have a custom made after you bought. Probably good. For the price you'd pay for a new... Fur coat, yeah, there's like thousands of pounds, yeah. Go buy yourself an old one and it doesn't really fit properly. Like, we'll spend the spare cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you'll be like, I just got this from her car boot and it was like, just...

That's Tesla telling me about her fur coat. I just got this from a car. I just got this and it's got a little face on it. I think I know with some so jealous of people who've managed like in any way customize anything. Yeah, I can see that that was something that you've been thinking about just in general. Yeah, because I feel like I met people when I'm like, oh my goodness, your coat's amazing. You're like, thank you. I just had it made.

Or like, I didn't it take him in. I had it taken in and I designed it. And like, I just found this from a vintage shop and then I cut the sleeves and lapel off and now it's amazing. And I'm like, I've never successfully cut the sleeves or lapel off anything. And don't think I haven't tried. Oh, yeah. I tried to do, you know, when I was going to go like, oh, these jeans are too short. Pop them into shorts.

I can't do it. Oh, my God. Couldn't do that. Oh, did you look like you were like a lost boy or something? either too long or too short or one's too long and one's the other's too short or the pocket things. The inside pockets are flapping below where I've cut them. That's quite trendy these days. It is, but that's only if it's like hemmed properly, like not if it's like wonky and the pockets hanging out.

Really bad. And it was really like, but hang on stuff, if I can't do this, I'm not going to start like lopping off colours. No. I'll just turn it into a little crop top. Good, good for you. Yeah. Too much. Too much.

I'm really carrying the weight of that around. Yeah, tailoring. Yeah, because I was like, I don't think many people buy big fur coats and have them tailored because they're quite big and they're supposed to be quite like that. But clearly tailoring was on your mind, is what I was saying. I was just thinking about that time. Do you remember we once went to that vintage kilo sale

many years ago with the pouring rain? Yes. And I said, we used to get there really early because the queue would be so big and then we were there for hours. Two people. It was us. It was us and we were the cute. You kept holding up this stuff,

like, I'll probably just get it taken out. Yeah. It's like, me. So I bought so much stuff that day because you filled a bag for a pound or something. So obviously I was like carting home kilos of the stuff and I bought this fur thing there that I was like, I'm going to make like trims to things. I was like I'll take this fur and I'll make like a cup. A trim. A fur crap. You're obsessed with cups? I just think, look one time I saw a girl with fur cups. I know. I want to make a cough. Anyway, then it lived under the sofa in the drawer under the sofa for years.

until my housemates threw it out. Yeah, well that's what happened. I remember there was a lot of, on that day, a lot of Tessa holding up, like, hideous clothing and being like, this said detailing, are you like, yes, but look at the rest, we're like, just pop that detailing on, pop on something else. You're absolutely not going to do her.

I behave at those things, as though I run a vintage couture shop and have for years. And I'd be, oh, that'll be perfect for, or I'm running, doing the costume department for a children's play. Yeah, definitely. It's lovely to watch, but terrified.

for you. I remember saying like, but what if there's a production of fantastic Mr. Fox or something and I've got this fur? I'm like, but I don't work at the primary school. Yeah, that will never no one will ever say that to you. No one will ever say to me. You've got any fur. So but anyway, back to the point is, sorry. Shop secondhand. There's a website called ThreadUp which takes, um, sold like sample stock and things and so things were otherwise going to landfill, whatever. Great.

And it sells those those on. And also is an Instagram girl called The Salvish Project who just does secondhand stuff on her Instagram, but it's just like, puts a picture. Instagram is such a like, you put a picture up, you say like, anyone want this? Then you just buy it.

Then you say like, DM me and I'll give you my bang details and then they put it in the post. Yeah, it's amazing. Oh yeah. Of course, we can just do that.

We've taken total control of like e-commerce. Yeah. People just putting something in their stories being like, anyone want this? Yeah, and things like, you know,

just looking at, obviously it's a whole different podcast because it's about like fashion now, but like things like, obviously, you know, getting some lovely leather boots. You're like,

or not. Like, get them secondhand. Like there will be that style, that exact style might not be there, but maybe hold out and find, find it on eBay maybe, because that's someone who's bought it and then they're selling it on. That's not just like new. They're not making it. They're not making it. They're not making it for the price difference. But I'm also sorry that my tortoise is walking quite loudly in the background. If you can hear that, I'm sorry. That is also probably more environmentally friendly as well. Because it's not having been bought once. So you're, you're doing them a favour of it. It's already in the bin. It is tricky as well. Like, I didn't realise that honey wasn't vegan. I've been in honey. I've been like support the bee industry just I don't even like honey absolutely but apparently the bee industry is very the honey industry is really bad and like really sad there's definitely harm-free honey out there yes there is and like it's that awful thing that we were saying about how like farmers markets are bullshit because it's just so expensive and so not for everybody but if you can afford to go to

those things and get like you know locally sourced honey or local it's so much better than getting it from a supermarket but realistically lots of people can't do I can't do that. So I'll just have to try and do, try and minimize what I do do and try and make sure that, you know, okay, fine, I'm going to spend all my money on eggs and that means that I buy the really cheap chopped tomatoes in a can, sure.

Like, things like that, be like, right, you just have to, you just have to do the best that you can. And I hope it didn't sound preaching, because I just, I don't think it should be preaching. Well, I'm prepared to get on Greta Thumburg's wagon here and be like, it's the time to preach. It's the time to preach, yeah, it really is. And I think choose one expensive area,

like are you going to invest in nice eggs or nice plastic free toilet roll or something in your life? You're like, you can't have all of the things at this level but maybe you pick one. You're like, this is my contribution. This is my thing. And not using meat,

even just for a couple of days a week, is so much better than eating meat. That fact about the transport thing has blown my dick off. It's amazing. A positive bit of facts to end up here. Some positive stuff. This is something I've been obsessed with

for a really long time. It's cultured meat or grown meat. So the idea that you can grow meat in like a stem cell. Christ, in a lab. In a lab. Okay. Right.

And so like, what if you can, like when they started 3D printing a lung or whatever. Yeah. Remember those days? It's like, okay, now there's a long there. Like, I don't have printed a lung. Or it doesn't matter what they do and how they explain it and how many times I see it. In my head, I just think of a piece of paper coming out and a picture of a lung. Yeah, yeah.

I guess that's a lung now. I put that in my body. Yeah. 3D printing blows my mind. That's too much. I don't. Anyway. So once I started doing.

that, I was like, well, just keep printing the meat then. Yeah, of course. Just put, what's the problem? What's the problem here? I decided shouting at the scientist, knocking on the window, being like, grow it, gross steak. Sourced it out, guys. Print a steak. Anyway, so I looked into why it is so difficult, and obviously, because it's science and they're trying really hard. Yes. But people are giving it a good go. Yeah. So me shouting as has helped. Well done. Winston Churchill in 1931 even said, will soon escape the absurdity of growing a whole chicken in order to eat just the breast or wing

by growing these parts separately under a suitable medium. So even way back then, before they could even conceive of the technology, they understood the idea of like, this is stupid. And that's in the 30s, way before we really fucked up. Yeah. And then continued to fuck up for years. And so they have, basically since the 70s, been really taking it seriously.

And in 2012, they managed to produce a burger that was completely grown. lab grown. Oh, amazing, okay. And so various people, some people are into the fish, some people are making pigs, some people are making burgers, various organisations, like the Dutch government, or PETA, P-E-T-A, the people who occasionally go too far.

Sometimes it's too much. But I like the vibe. Certainly, in 2008 they offered a million dollar prize to the first company that could bring a lab-grown chicken to consume it. And people managed to do it anyway. In 2012, they managed to produce this, burger, no, sorry, 2013, it was eaten at a demonstration in London, and it cost, it took two years to make this burger and cost $300,000. Right, so that's... Whoa, whoa, whoa. So that was in 2012.

And now, in 2019, the same burger cost $9. Oh my God, so now it's just for rich people, but that'll keep going. Yeah. Let's bring it down. Bring them to go and shout to them again. No, well done. Carry on. Now for the poor people. You're doing so well. So in that very short space of time, to go from $300,000 to $9 in the space of five years is pretty phenomenal.

Keep going. Keep going. And so this, it will eventually, we will get there to a point when we can, red meat and chicken and fish and all of these things don't have to be, it doesn't have, you know, people who are like, but we need it. And to an extent I can believe that idea that, like, you know, that you do feel better if you've eaten red meat or whatever. Absolutely, yeah.

It's just the planet cannot cope with our need at the moment. And so we are moving towards that. And one of the things they've come up against is that, like, people are like, ugh. It was grown in a lab. Whereas like, which I do understand, but to an extent, you're like, well, the other one died. Yeah.

The other one was, like, hung upside down and bled to death in a slaughterhouse. Like, how can you be like, ugh, what's in it? But there's no harm come to me. It's crazy. And so a lot of focus groups, are sort of trialling the idea of calling it like clean meat or green meat or like trying to find a word that doesn't sound like lab-grown meat.

Science meat. Science meat. Because I think something that like climate change, for example, Dick Cheney's government in America made the choice to move from it being called global warming to climate change. So climate change just feels like something that happens. And like that's just the world has been,

it goes through an ice age and now it's this. The humans weren't involved. Whereas like global warming is like... When will it stop? When what's happening? Or we're going to boil? It's getting hotter. Whereas like climate change, everyone's like,

I don't think it's a real issue. It does sound a lot gentler, doesn't it? Doesn't it? Exactly. And that was an active choice to change it. And so, similarly, if we can roll out clean meat and everyone's like, yes, please. Yeah, I'll eat that clean meat, better than dirty meat, surely.

Or super meat, the one of them, the one in Israel is called. Super meat, that's great. Super meat. I love super meat. Right, let's get behind that. You can hear all the lads being like, Tiber a Superme burger, mate. Yeah, are you having a super meat?

rather than you can't hear like lab groin meat. Yeah, yeah, mate. No. No, but super meat, we can all get behind. Great. So positives. Well, that is positive. The clever people are working on it.

They're working on it. We're getting, we're trying to. And also, positives are, you have to be, like, the most vegan person in the world. You just be a bit. And just try, if you can. If you want any, like... It's all positive change. It's all for positive change.

Go on accidentally vegan on Instagram. Just have a look around. Get some books. Get some... Just do some fun research about, like, oh, what's my first. favourite food? Well, is there an alternative? Like, what can I do? Start thinking, buying your clothes second hand. You don't have to wear a cow. Maybe, new? Like, it doesn't, he's already dead. Get that one. And, uh, and yeah, thank you so much. If, I don't know, we said

anything outrageously wrong or offensive, and also, just for some love at Nobody Panic Pod and email us, Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com. Oh, I'm at Stevie M. Yes, as a 5. I'm at Tessica. It's just classic letters, alphabetical letters. Classic letters in the correct order. And we'll see you next week with someone else, not me. Who will it be? It's me and Dr. Parker join in for... The most awkward podcast. How to be in a shell. It might be. How to come out of your shell.

How to come out of your shell. It's about being better at parties. She's got some anecdotes. She's quite bad at parties. And come and see us on June the 10th. We'd love to have you. We would love to have you. Yeah. Bye, guys. Bye-bye.