Nobody Panic - How to Grow Veg in a Small Space (Live at Hampton Court Palace)

Episode Date: October 4, 2022

Live at the Royal Horticultural Society's Flowers After Hours at Hampton Court Palace with Ella Risbridger - author of Midnight Chicken and great friend of the podcast - stepping in for an absent Stevie. Tessa and Ella interview Tom Leonard aka Daisy Desire the Drag Queen Gardener about how to garden when you don’t live amid rolling fields and meadows.*This episode was recorded outside!Find Daisy on Instagram: @dragqueen_gardenerBuy Ella's new book The Year Of MiraclesSubscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded live at Hampton Court Palace and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Welcome to the Royal Watercultural Society, Flowers After Hours, Hampton Court Palace. Yes.

Thank you so much. Oh, a lovely applause from the gentleman at back. Thank you. Oh, and this lady. And now one by one we'll go around gently applauding. Perfect, perfect. Thank you so much for coming and hanging out with us. We make a podcast called Nobody Panic.

That is all, oh, thank you so much. But if you've never heard of us, not to worry. Not to panic. and it's all about how-toes, big how-toes, small how-toes. Sometimes they're about how to go over a heartbreak. Sometimes they're about how to do your tax return, how to drink more water. And we're thrilled to be doing this live from the Royal Hampton Court. I'm joined by my co-host for this evening.

Ella Risbridger, who is a chef, an author, has written two best-selling cookbooks, Midnight Chicken, and then this year, the Year of Miracles, and is an enthusiastic but untalented vegetable grower. Is that fair? I think I have some talents. Some talents. I think, and for me, reasonably untalented. Reasonably untalented.

For me, no talents whatsoever. And then we're joined by a gardening star. Star of the gardening world, star of actual gardener's world, Daisy Desire. So thank you so much. for being here. Oh, thank you for having me. You look exquisite.

For anyone listening at home, it is the hottest day of the year. It's so hot. It's so hot. We're absolutely melting. This fridge back here works, and earlier we all just got in it in an attempt to be a bit cooler.

Shuffling backwards. And Daisy has been in full drag for 12 hours now. Yeah. So the topic of today's podcast is how to grow vegetables in a small space. If you're only working with

a tiny little bit garden, a little windowsill, a little box. I've got a car parking space. A car parking space, for example. It's very tricky. So if we kick off by saying, Daisy, what brought you to gardening? Wow. I think my gardening journey started about three years ago.

I usually say that I went for a breakup. But the most candid story is, especially after a glass champagne, is I, basically, I used to pass the allotments when I used to go to work on the train. And I always used to be really, really intrigued to what was going on. I never put on a gardening glove in my life. Basically, one day I got dumped, and the next day, very hungover, I strolled up to that allotment side and was like, can I have a plot? So I went and got a pair of gardening gloves, and for the first year, I basically killed

everything other than a marrow. But I loved it. I absolutely loved it so much. You know, I was getting out all the anger, watering with my tears. And, you know, just from that year, I learned so much of getting it wrong. You know, I feel like gardening is such an opportunity to fail. and I really just learned so much from that first year. So from there, I ended up having a very successful second year.

I trained as a horticulturist and I work as a gardener and now I'm also the drag queen gardener. Oh, my God. Fabulous. Was your successful second summer the 2020, just doing the maths? The 2020. It was very hot. Because I had, I started gardening in 2020 and I had a very successful year. Tell people your vegetable gardening journey.

Please do. I don't like living in London very much, but also I, don't want to live anywhere else. And that means that I like to pretend that I live somewhere else by having a little garden bit. Gorgeous. It is a car parking space.

It's quite ugly, but it is, I think, charming. That's the point. Because I've tried to get an allotment. This is why I was curious. Okay. Because I have been on the allotment waiting list for five years,

and I've got at least three and a half more to go before Lewisham Council will give me an allotment. That is the trouble with trying to get an allotment in London. It's a huge waiting list. But like, you know, this little car park you've turned into a growing space, you know. Yes, I am not allowed to put things in the middle because my flatmate likes to put a car there. But I can put it around.

Okay. Sorry, so it's a working car parking space. Oh, fully, yes. Okay, okay. Okay. Great. Okay. Right. Okay. So you just come up something better.

I imagined, when you said it was a car park, I imagined, oh, it was the size of a car park. Oh, no. No. So what are you growing on this? What are you attempting to grow on this car? Tomatoes. Four kinds of tomatoes. Three kinds of cordia.

Some sorrel, some red-veined sorrel. Oh, some sorrel, yeah. Some peas, but the peas and the sugar snap peas are not very successful because we've got a lot of snails. And I am very strongly opposed to putting poison down for them. No, of course, but there's always some natural stuff that you can do with that. What can I do?

Like, I mean, the general kind... I'm in. decided to be the bunny Guinness of this generation. So please. The sound question. To be fair, I mean, broken egg, you know, after you've cracked a few eggs, I made an omelette, so some broken egg shells, that's always lovely.

But at the same time, it doesn't, I always find that's not the most kind of, how do I put it, productive way. It doesn't always kind of complete. I have put some eggshells down. Have you tried copper tape? No. Tell me more. So you can get copper tape

where it's from the garden center, hardware. It's like a natural thing. And basically, it almost kind of, the slugs and sails don't. like it because it almost gives them a minor electric shock so as soon as they get on it they're like oh and is it a huge issue of the slugs and snails is that your main uh the main bad guy in the garden is the slugs getting your stuff oh the other thing you can do um sorry i forgot to mention this and maybe this i don't know if you tried this but you know kind of like brambles and stuff and i think with like

large fawn so even if you've got like a kind of you know a dead um stem of on a rose or something chop a bit off and obviously making sure it's not diseased or anything and layer that round either you're container or something because the slugs and snails will not want to slither over the thorns. So that might be another one, especially if they're brambles, because obviously brambles are everywhere. So that's maybe another one to try. Oh my God. Like the Great Escape, you know, barbed wire fencing, you know, but for a slug. Okay, perfect. So we brambles to size. Okay. Cut them in. Oh my God. Look at us go. And for free. And for free. And for free and no debt. Because they're not dead. Well, when I first got into gardening, I was like, well, I don't want to

spend too much money. So I got all my tools from like, you know, Facebook Marketplace or second hand or from like family members. Obviously now is a bit different. But yeah, when I first started, I didn't want to spend too much money. And it's like even like my garden shed that I still have. I got it on eBay for like 80 pounds. And I did it me cheaper because I could go collect it. Fixed it up, liquor paint and there we are.

What absolute dream. Because I think that is such a huge thing, isn't it? The money, it feels like such a huge expense to get sparrier, isn't it? That's the cost of living crisis. all of these things. It feels like a huge barrier that when you start getting into it you're like, oh, I need all these bits, I need all this stuff, when really it should be like the most natural thing in the world. And the thing is, I think

you start off thinking it will be cheaper to grow vegetables because people do suggest it to you if you haven't got enough money to buy things that you should grow them. But actually, I have found that every bit of vegetable from my garden has been the single most expensive one of that vegetables I've ever eaten. A gentleman there just bellowing, it's true, it's true.

That's true. Daisy, I wish I could tell you it all tasted better. Some of it does, and some of it tastes a bit like it's been grown. Yeah, rubbish. Thank you. It tastes rubbish. Sometimes it does. And I, you know, I had a friend who was growing tomatoes on a rooftop in central London,

and he did so well, and they looked so beautiful, and all of them tasted like petrol. Potatoes, I'm not 100% sure I can tell. My mum attempted potatoes. And when she presented, oh, she presented them, and they were about the size of a pea. They were like, this, like, joke, like, tiny little potatoes. So they were just, they were too small, they were too nothing. They were like a doll's potato. When did you pull them up when they were just green?

I guess too early. But that's the thing because it's unhelpousal. How do you know? Okay, so the best advice I'd give, it depends. So this is just what I do and this is what I would recommend is your potatoes. Yeah. Leave them in there. Okay.

You know when they've got that good, strong green stem. Yeah. Yeah. Leave that. Just leave them in there. And they'll flour, leave them. When they could turn brown and start to go, that's when to take them. When the leaves start to turn. But I take them when they kind of...

It's personal... So you don't pull them up when they're... When they've got the flowers on? You leave that. No, no, no, no. No, because... No, no, no. Okay.

It's such a panic, isn't it? Because you think it's flowering, you don't want to pull it up rotten. Look, honestly, the longer you kind of get into gardening, so you learn from your mistakes. But at the same time, like, you become more instinctive and get to know, like, different plants and what you're growing.

But in the sense of, like, potatoes, like, they'll tell you on the back of the packet. like, oh, 70 days or 100-something days. You can follow that, but also use your own kind of just instinct and go, actually, do they look like... And that's the thing, like, as time goes on, you become more kind of intuitive. Intuitive. Intuitive.

Intuitive. Yeah. Intuitive. I think it's difficult, isn't it? Because when you know a lot about the subject, I'm a cook generally, gardening is a sort of small tinkering hobby. I did just write a book about it, but it was mostly about gardening a small tinkering hobby. And I'm always telling people like,

oh, no, you know how to cook. just when it goes to the correct stage, then you stop. And it doesn't work for people who are... Bad at cooking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I've read your cookbook. It's like, just trust yourself. And then I'm trusting, and then everything I make is dreadful, you know? No, yeah. I mean... Some of it's quite bad. Some of it is.

Not some of my food's quite bad. So it is that thing when someone's like, but maybe it is just like practice and time. Oh, yeah. You know, what you're saying about your first season was a dreadful season. You're like, okay, really take heart of that. I've been like, that's what I mean.

That's why I like to kind of tell people, like, look, the first year when I've got into gardening, I've basically killed everything, but one marrow. Okay. And I think that's so important to tell people, because now I know what, don't get me wrong. Like, I'm no expert, but I don't think anyone really is an expert because you're constantly always learning. That's the thing about gardening. There's always something new.

There's always something that, you know, more to learn. But, like, in that first year, I, you know, I'm someone who knows a lot more about gardening now than when I did in that first year where I killed everything. Yeah. So I don't think, like, I think that's the thing. You can never be too hard in yourself. And I think use that opportunity of failure to learn something about why. So, okay, so your potatoes didn't work out or, you know, your strawberries didn't work out.

Or, you know, the tomatoes were tasting a petrol. That's an opportunity to learn why that happened and how you can improve that and what to do next. And also, like, don't ever get disheartened when something dies, for God's sake. Like, things die. You can grow them again. You know, I feel like people get so disheartened and intimidated when it's kind of, you know, oh my god like it's dead i'm they're like well darling that's life in terms of like growing like vegetables and stuff like that um i'd go with stuff like that's

really really easy and quick you know quick rewards like lettuces and stuff yeah what would you say is for somebody who's been badly burnt by the garden experience and is very poor at it i tried once a spring onion i heard that if you just put that in the soil after you've cooked it it'll grow again did it and oh yes but so big and so almost sort of sexual that I was quite scared of it. And I couldn't really, so I just kept growing and growing and growing, and I just was too overwhelmed by it, until it just grew back down again and died.

And then once I tried to grow a leak, and that again, that's amazing sort of like, you're about to throw the end of the leak in a bin. If you put it in water, it'll start going again. Unbelievable. Put it on the window still to get some sun, eaten by a bird, immediately eaten by a bird. So I was so disheartened by the whole experience.

I was like, well, that's that, then. get it. So what would you say is you're like, you've been badly burnt by the experience, everything's dead or you're like, I haven't got much space. What is your like absolute beginner? What should we start with? We can't kill it. It's easy. It's looking after itself. I think if you're so disheartened, I think if I'm really honest, I'd be like, well, just get a grip and try again. Okay. Number one. Get a grip. Seriously. Gardening isn't supposed to be like, if you, if you're so disheartened by gardening, then I think you need to like realize that actually like, enjoy what you're doing as well, like, that

space that you're, do you know what I mean? Yeah. This kind of like, that's three hours that you spent tinkering around in that car park of yours around your friend's car. Boxing the car in. You have not spent like that three hours watching Netflix. And I bet you actually, you lose yourself

into it. Oh, God, that's nice. Very moving. I thought you were going to say marrow or something, but you've less than much. Screw the marrow. What do you do with it once it's done? No. But that's such a lovely answer about being like, did you find joy in the experience? Exactly.

And if you didn't, then what you're doing is rolling up hill here it's not going to make you, you know, you're not making money out of this thing. It's got to be a joyful experience and you've got to enjoy it and being with the earth and, you know, all of this sort of stuff. Oh, you're so right. Okay, I'm really inspired. Okay, okay. Okay, so the other thing I'd also do is grow like some sort of like flowers

with what you're growing in terms of like crops and edible stuff. Because also you can, you can, you know, enjoy that whilst you're waiting for the, stuff to grow. But in terms of trying new to get into gardening, what I would really advise for you now is have a look around at what your neighbours are doing. Have a look around, like, you know, around the street or even on Instagram. Try and get ideas. See what you like. See what you don't like and see what just inspires you to kind of try next year. The trouble is, even when it's kind of, you know, it's not been exactly sunny, but it's been like windy or something. Plants dry out, but we forget about that, especially for your new gardener. So that's the sort of thing.

Also, don't water every day. Water a lot, but irregularly. What is this a lot but irregularly? What is that? So give it a good dread. Does your container have holes in the bottom? Yes. Okay, so water it to the point where you can start to see the water coming out of the bottom.

And then just leave it until it's like somewhat dry. Yes. Okay. And then going in. Yeah, it's better to do that rather than just like keep constantly watering and stuff. So much thing about this watering thing is no one knows what to do and knows how to do it correctly. No one has had to water plants. And then, you know, you get a succulent and then it's like, oh, it's like, oh, it's not.

get a succulent and then it's like oh I killed it every time it looked dry it was actually drowning and then I was like forget it I'm not doing any more of this you know but that's the thing like also if you get a certain plant just give it it it's so simple to give it a Google and see like is that a plant to say like hydrangeers I presume like hydrangeers we know why are you saying it like that what does that mean hydrangeers back to you because a bird stole your league yeah yeah okay are you asking if I have any hydrangeers they love like damp dark soil but people would like go and straight put that on the front of a border and it won't do it as well

Ah, do they look very lovely Is that why? Yeah, they look They look thirsty What I'm trying to get to is If you Google that plant And then you know like oh, does that prefer more damp conditions Then you know that it needs to be more water

Okay, just being really specific about what exactly does this plant need You know, where does it need to go? Does it want to be in the dark? Does it need to be in the bloc? Yes, please make it easy. Yeah. Water like, oh my God, water irregularly and a lot.

Okay. But if you're more concerned about a certain plant or a plant does not look like it's performing the way you want it to and you're starting to get a bit disheartened, just crack open a book or just at least Google why. Okay. Then you can like figure out how to kind of repair that mistake. Okay.

You know? I do. I think it's just about experiments really. It's about, you know, just seeing if you can get it right. My experiments have been, if I put this in a pot and, leave it outside and the rain waters it irregularly will it grow and the answer is no so tessa have you succeeded as anything absolutely in my life no i'm in plant so mean um yeah i have succeeded uh no in a plant way yes

no god no um genuinely not things have grown but not that i asked to grow other areas of my life have been moderately successful but i think like i uh you know i i i've never managed to grow anything successfully. I did once attempt to one of those... You can grow your own avocado tree on Pinterest and it was like, step one, put a cocktail stick through it. Step two, put it in a glass of water. Step three, wait 12 years.

I was like, right, well, that's the end of that. No. Yeah. It's always difficult to get a cocktail stick through as well. And then you balance it. And then also, where do you put it when it's balancing? 12 years in the kitchen? Yeah, yeah, you just leave it there for 12 years.

I mean, that's the thing about it's so absurd. And that's when you lose... You know, lose... But you're so right, like, I just need... to just need to commit. Just show up. Just commit. See what happens. I mean, you don't need acres of land to live your best horticultural life.

Oh my God, you're so right. I'm so good at this. You're so good at this and you're so, you're right about this inspiring thing, but rather than being like, what's the easy thing to do, just being like, pick something and show up for it. Well, this is what I get kind of like annoyed about in terms of like the kind of like horticulture industry in general. It's like, why don't we just like rip away that intimidation?

So people feel like our gardening is more accessible for everyone And just to even try Well, it does feel so, it does feel so much That it's something that is inaccessible, you know? It does definitely feel like, you're like, oh, gosh, not for me, you know? It's like, of course, that should be for everyone. Yeah, and it's like, when people go, Oh, I've got so many weeds, I can't do anything,

and it almost like feels like it's getting on top of you. Everyone has weeds. I have weeds. Like, come on. And also, like, it depends if you enjoy it or not, but like spending 20 hours, 20, 20 hours just weeding. 20 hours a day. Pure 20 hours.

20 hours of sleep. There's a bench at the train station when I walked in and it was, it said a weed is just a flower in the wrong place. Exactly. What is it? Someone said to me to me as once and I thought, oh God, get a grip. And I was like, they were like, oh, you know, one person's weed is another person's flower. And I thought, yes, that is true.

But at the same time, like. They're in the wrong place. Get them out. How do you know? Which is which? I mean, I'm horticulturally trained so I sort of can identify them But how would you suggest an idiot

Identify them Oh, well no one's an idiot I think that like Do you know what? If you do like it I do leave it be Unless it's quite an invasive one I was just going to say

Because we're coming close to the end Just in case there was any questions for Daisy And if there's not I have another one But just in case any of you had a gardening Have you ever grown asparagus And then very enthusiastically She said, I want to grow asparagus Do you? So very bougie, exparagus. I personally have never grown it. And the reason being

is because it's a biennual, so it takes like two years to kind of actually, like, you sew it, but you wait for two years for it to come out. I am a patient person, but I, so on my allotment, I've reduced the size, so I don't really have as much space as I used to. So they're like, well, I, no, but like, I would recommend it if you have the space and definitely grow, I mean, I don't see why not. It's like, it's like. It's like, it's like, it's like, and it tastes apparently so much better when you do grow it. Don't be intimidated by it. I mean, seriously.

It's just gardening. It's just gardening. Oh, I've thought of one more question. Please. What's the quickest way to make a garden look nice? Paint your shed and have nice. Well, do you know what? Because you're starting for nothing and it takes so long.

You go into beautiful gardens and you think they've been working for years on this and you can tell. What's the quickest way to make it look like you've put some sort of... Bang for your buck. Okay, okay. Exactly. Grandma's coming round. We've got to make it nice. Long term, buy things like perennials.

So perennials are, okay, so the difference is so an annual is something that you'll grow for a year and it has a life span of one year. Perennials are ones that have three plus. Dead, that's the end. So like some flowers. Some flowers like, yeah. After this thing. Gone.

Gone. But they're gorgeous. But that's what you grow them. You know, if someone goes, they're gorgeous. And then they're like, oh, gone. But then you grow them again next year. So they're a perennial or an annual? Annual.

But a perennial is something that's something that you buy. it has three years plus. Perennial has three years plus. Okay, so let's get some perennials in. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, so perennial. So in terms of like, because they'll just get bigger, whether it's kind of like a salvia or a GM or even like a hydrangee,

but obviously it does need like damp. Damp. I know this now. But in terms of, yeah, so in terms of that, but also I would just try, if you wanted to look pretty in terms of like quite quickly, like fast pretty. So even stuff that has longevity So stuff like Marigold and stuff

I mean they get a bit of a bad rap Because they're like Apparently they're quite an old-fashioned plot But I actually love them because they're vibrant colours Oh my god, calendulas You need some Calendulas Thank you darling Colangulas oh my god

They're these gorgeous vibrant orange flag They're actually somewhat related to Marigold If I remember correctly They're self-seating So they'll come back every year You don't need to worry about them They literally will just be coming back And they're just gorgeous

And Calendia Colangula Calendula. Fabulous orange flowers and also, apparently the petals are edible and you can dry out. You would love this.

You can dry out the petals and use them in like soaps and bombs and stuff like that. Oh my God. Farbulous. Gardening for everything. I'm so glad that you've like correctly identified me

as a person who would love that. And correctly identify that that is beyond my abilities. In terms of your peas. Speak to me. So are the pests to get into them, yeah? Well, I believe so. There's only two left. Okay, so there's a thing called

like companion planting. So basically is where you plant like two things whether they're, they can be, you know, anything from crops and flowers and everything. And they work together in unison.

So this can be beneficial to things like, like crop protection, like from pests, they can invite a lot of beneficial things like, you know, bees and pollinators. But they,

and also, like, there's a whole range of things. But what I'm trying to get to is, if you plant some nasturtiums. Okay. So the sturgeons are fabulous for growing up things, but they're also great ground cover

if you have weeds. And basically, nasturiums, like, they kind of, They attract the aphids, which are probably attacking your peas, possibly. And basically, they eat the nasturtiums. It's kind of like, you know, they'll take their aphids rather than the peas.

That's kind of what you have to have. Oh, like a porn. A pawn in chess. They are a sacrificial plant. Yeah, they're a sacrificial plant. Great. And they look nice as well because they're flowers. Oh, they're doing the Lord's work.

Gardening is fabulous. Are there any vegetables, since we're on vegetables in this small space? Are there any vegetables that self-seed? mostly look after themselves, apart from the water? I mean, I personally don't like radididus, so I don't grow them, but radishes are so kind of easy to grow. Again, if you have a small space, like having things that have quick turnovers, like salads are really, really good. When you say quick turnover, how quick we're talking?

For a salad. Depends, but, like, in terms of, like, do you know what? Even if, okay, as much as I advise you to go and get, you know, grow stuff from seed, which is just as easy. if you buy little kind of lettuce I buy the little ones Yeah I thought you did That's what I'm talking

Like that's They're pretty easy Like within like a couple of weeks You'll have a fabulous lettuce But you've got to make sure to water them Of course And don't let them dry out of their bowl Maybe I'm not watering them enough

They are very spindly still You know They've got that sort of slightly Give them a water Understood Give them a goddamn water Give the people what they want So like you can

Like there's certain tomatoes You can grow from like Containers up above That's the thing when you have a garden, you've got to use all the space even vertically as well. People forget about that.

It's not just the ground. Hang on, hang on. The world. Okay. I can put a tomato in a hanging bus. Yes. Will it grow down? Or will it go down?

You can get that. They grow down. And it's exactly the same thing about strawberries as well. You can put them on drain pipes on the walls and everything. Oh my God. Oh my God.

And potatoes. You just blown this wide open. You can put potatoes. Can't fucking space goes up as well as down. Oh, yes. Well, potatoes. You can go in like in compost bags. for bags, peat-free of course.

But basically, you can just grow them in the bag and just keep like... Just grow them in the bag. Okay. Yeah, keep topping them over. Keep topping them up. Yeah, it doesn't... You don't have to have a huge space, literally, to live your, like, best horticultural life.

Like, you can live your gardening dream wherever you are. It doesn't need to be... I feel like I'm going to need more on the strawberries and drain pipes business. Yes, well, if you do that, they do need... They didn't make sure they do have a good water.

But has anyone ever tried that? Has anyone, like, grown, like, strawberries in a drain pipe? Or, like, of a... certain height. Hanging basket. Who said that? Yes. Yes. You. What you put in your hanging basket? Strawberries. Strawberries. Exactly. So easy. So many ways. I should write a book. Oh my God. You're 100% sure. Small tips to small spaces. I genuinely think we could sit here and hang out all evening. But I'm so aware there is another podcast coming up

after us to the end. Just some food for thought. Food for thought to take us home. If you go out into your garden, say like a week later after you're planning something and it's not looking like too great, just think, well, how much time have I spent outside? in my own garden. Yeah, you're absolutely right. None of it is wasted time. Exactly. None of it was a loss.

You hung out with your plants in the garden, having a nice time. Exactly. A garden is also your space that you're growing for yourself, you know? Oh, wonderful. We too can grow with the plants. We too.

Okay, okay. I feel so genuinely inspired and I've always felt this was really beyond my capabilities. But now that I feel like it's less like a, what did you do that was successful and whereas you're basically that nice, that lovely old gentleman who always has his

massive onion, you know? There's a picture on the internet of a man with a massive onion. Yes, he's the big fruit. The big fruit and his big marrow and so I'm always like, well, if you didn't grow that, then you've sort of failed. But there is no real like success and failure in gardening. It's simply like, did you have a nice time? Did you make something? Well, you'll never grow an onion. And it's so communal.

It's so communal and everyone's hanging out. God, if you look at, I don't know, if you have a neighbour or something or a friend and you see something, you're like, oh my God, I really like that. How do I grow that? when did I go wrong with this? Oh, and everyone just wants to chat and give you their tips and say, yeah, let's all the same people. And say, tear into ports, hang the basket, copper pipe.

We're all in. Copper tape, sorry. Try copper pipe, maybe that'll work. I don't know. Maybe I'm the experimental copper pipe gardener and I'll be back. I'll be here. Thank you all so much for joining us. Thank you everybody to listening at home.

It's been so nice. Thank you ever so much for coming down to join this. Thank you to my amazing co-host, Ella. Thank you for coming. It's been lovely. We're wearing matching for all. you can't see at home, but it looks nice. Ella's cookbooks are in the shops, in all the shops, everywhere you can impossibly imagine.

Midnight chicken and the Year of Miracles. They're both really wonderful. And also, if you are a new cook or you're tired, I'm going to say you're tired, but that's not it. But if you're tired, if you're tired or a beginner or anything, they're a perfect way to ease you in, it's like anyone can do it. And similarly, Daisy Desire is over on Instagram at The Drag Queen Gardener. Drag Queen underscore Gardener. know the, strike the Z up. But we are the drag, yeah.

It's confusing for me as well. It's strike the the the like Justin Timberlake in the social network. Lose the the, you know. Such a specific reference about the Facebook movie. Okay, drag queen underscore gardener. You can also find her on gardener's world. Garden gardener's question time.

Maybe. In the future. On her own podcast, on her own hit things, in her own book that's coming out. Never know. I might have an own gardening, my own gardening show. Her own gardening show. Add couture to your manure. Add couture to your manure.

And on that, the Royal Hampton Corps, Royal Horticultural Society. Have an amazing night. This has been Nobun Panic. Thank you so much. Good night. Thank you.