Nobody Panic - How to Have a Better Work Life Balance

Episode Date: November 24, 2020

Stevie and Tessa have worked from home for years but still have a TERRIBLE work/life balance - in this episode they work out how to separate the two, especially during lockdown and especially if you don’t have a massive house with an office. And a lovely mahogany desk. That looks out over a babbling brook. Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded by Ben Williams and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true, Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Welcome to Nobody Panic, a podcast where we try to help people a bit to do things. Some things. A bit.

Not loads. Just a bit. I'm Stevie. I'm Tessa. If you're an old time, if you're an old time, good time, ragtime gal, come on in. You know, the drill. If you're new, thank you so much for joining us. The podcast has been going for a while.

There's a whole back catalogue for you to check out. And then you can also search the debrief podcast if you want some. more we used to be called that. Just welcoming in the newcomers. I mean, that was absolutely lovely, Tessa. So this episode is about how to achieve a good work life balance in lockdown. And this also would, if we're not in lockdown at the time of listening, can be used just from anyone working from home, I guess. We're doing this because we've got an email from Sophie who essentially asked for it. So she said, she's a long time listener.

First time, call her. Thank you, Sophie. Thank you, Sophie. She's been having quite a tough time in lockdown. Put that in that she absolutely loves the show. You know, get a bit of praise going. I know, I just hate it on podcast when people go like, so I absolutely love your podcast. You're both so great. You're like, oh my God. All right. Don't just, I hate the show, but I've got a suggestion

for you. She hates the show, but she's been forced to send a suggestion in, which is, I've been having quite a tough I'm in lockdown with working from home. She really liked the episode on working from home early this year, but was wondering if we could explore how not to let your home become your office. A few friends and I have all been feeling like the dynamics of the workplace have changed to you can do more work because you never leave the office and are feeling close to burnout. I've not been able to shake the daily stress for my job as I would have done when working in an office

and leaving at the end of the day. Even on days when I don't finish particularly late, I can't stop thinking about work. Such a good suggestion because... And something we're all feeling, I think. all feeling and even to be honest before lockdown I had a terrible work-life balance so I'm very eager to well we did some research and had a look and how to think and can't ask around and we've come up with some some tips and some ideas that will hopefully help you feel a little bit less like you're just working constantly or when you're not working you're just thinking about work which is rubbish and I think it's definitely something that we're all we're all going through both hating your work and hating your house simultaneously and I only moved into my house in on the second of March and then it became illegal to leave my house very soon afterwards and at the time that was initially you know you felt all right and now even in a place I really love I'm already

like this you know it's just these room is this room again is it like it's just it's really and so I think you know we're all we're all like going through it so I'm I'm excited to do this episode. Yes. I also, we should say as well, disclaimer, is that we're probably not going to be able to give too many amazing tips on if you're working from home or separating home life balance when you've got like loads of kids because that's not an experience that we have, but hopefully these tips will also be able to help with that as well to an extent. What's the adult thing you've done this week though, Tessa, every week we like to give an adult thing. I thought just explain it for new listeners. Yeah, come on in,

newcomers. This is really the one for you. Mine is that I have been looking at the gross tiles in my shower for some time now. Well, just keep you totally abreast of the tile situation. I bought some tile sticker decals that you can, for very little money, you can stick over your tiles with like a patterned tile and make a new tile. Oh my God. I don't know that. No, me neither.

It's like sofa covers all over again. Right? So you can, you don't have to, obviously you can't change your tile. but you can cover them with a sticker that sounds shit but does actually look quite impressive. Does it look like the old Moroccan bathroom of my dreams? No. Does it look quite fun? Maybe.

But I have been looking at the disgusting grout between them and then I bought a grout pen for $2.99, a white grout pen and you cover up all your gross grout. And then it looks all white and shiny and brand new. and it was really satisfying to do. I mean, it's such, as I'm saying it now, I've bored myself with my story. I'm actually amazed by it. I think it's, I didn't know that those two things existed. No, no.

I'm now living in this new world. Our whole, pens and tile stickers exist. Yes, because you think, oh my God, like, you don't have any control over your bathroom. It is what it is, but it is what it is, mate. But you can cover it with a tile, a sticker decal, and cover up your grout.

And grout pens come in every colour. So no matter what color grout you've got, black, white, I mean, those are the two options, really. I was supposed to say, I've only ever seen, I think, white grout. But then have I? Have I just sort of missing with this multicolored grout? There's a new, it's only really black and white and like, earth color.

But there is a real movement in like the fancy bars and fancy places for black grout. Very cool. You can imagine it like a white brick tile and black grout. Like that's very... I can imagine it right now. You're imagining it, Stevie. Anyway, so grout pen from your local DIY shop. Very cheap.

Very satire. to do, it feels like I've got a new grout. So, huge day for me. I'm so impressed and shocked. Thank you. What was, what's yours? Mine is, so I, a long time, less as well know, I struggle sleeping and stuff and also, like, don't really get out very early. And there was a point about a couple of weeks, a month ago, where I'm, like, I don't have to, because I've got a lot of work on during this lockdown.

period and I wasn't able to complete it in the hours of the day that were given to me. And I was like, I just don't have any time whilst getting up at like half 11. They're like, why is there no time? And then now, for the last, like, it has been about, it has been over a month now. Monday to Friday, go up at half eight. And then write one thing and then switch, do the other thing. And yet, is it boring? Of course it is.

but by 2 o'clock I've actually done work and people listening to this will be like yes well done I've been doing that for my whole life I understand this but I'm really like a night out person so it has meant that I've often had a lot less sleep than normal but it has meant as well that I've had less sleepless nights too because it's kind of forced me to be tired in the evening a little bit more than it normally would hasn't solved it but like it certainly is like a little bit better but every time I get up

I'm so angry, I have to do a lot of shouting. And then after about 10 minutes, I feel so good. Because I'm like, here I am. No one's made me get up, but I'm just here up. Hello. Yes. That's such a lovely one. It's so exhausting, isn't it, that all the things they suggest in life,

like drinking more water and exercising regularly and like getting up, that you're like boring. And then you do them and you're like, oh, infuriatingly, this has made an enormous difference. It's made a huge difference. When you've got up early for something and you're, you're like, oh my God, I've achieved so much and it's 12 o'clock, you know, fantastic. Let's get to it. Let's get to it.

Let's get in there because this is absolutely universal, this feeling at the moment. It's so universal, but it's also very in keeping with what we were just saying about how all those things that you know to be true. And you go, yes, very good. Boring, I'm not a wanker. And then you do them and then you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, good, good, good point. that's the sound about adult life that noise yes and it will continue in fact it'd be nice if you just have that in the background the whole time

it's like a sort of a bed a musical bed as they say in the radio biz um of you going the I have found I found it really hard working from home the work life balance thing I always work from home but when not done happened of having absolutely you know because I would like plan things around

social things so it's like oh I have to get this work done because in the evening I'm going I'm going out for drinks with a good friend or I'm doing this thing in the evening so you then you have a motivation and also you specifically have a delineation between not working and working whereas now it's like I will move to the other side of the sofa and it's dark and that's the delineation um to the one thing I found and I'm kicking off immediately with a point with a tip please is to and it could be anything, but you have to find an activity, a thing to do, something that takes you from work to the evening, which I guess is in place of your commute. Now, when we looked at working

from home, there were a lot of tips like, put your clothes on, go and walk around the block as if you are leaving your work and then come back, and I find that very funny. But actually, going for a walk is a really good tip. Going for a walk, getting out. Some people I've asked some people what they do to kind of deline it, everything from having a glass of wine, and going for a walk, or if you're not somebody that just like goes for walks, because I know everyone always goes, go for a walk and some people are like, boring. Go for a walk to the shop to get stuff in for a nice dinner. That's then you've got a point to leave cooking, so preparing a really nice meal.

And you are like, the moment I've started cooking, there's no work happening. After dinner is no work. And doing something practical for the house, like my friend, has like a, does like a tidying at the end of her day. And then once she's tidied, she's ready to go. And also exercising. So that could be anything from like a little tiny jog, just 10 minutes. Or it could be like a full workout in your house with yoga with Adrian.

Anything. But just something that essentially is like a little flag that's like, and now I'm finished. And the more you do it, psychologically, you will feel yourself starting to try. transition into a relaxation time because you, it's like going to bed, people say always have the same routine before you go to bed because by the time you've done it like 10 times, your brain will start to shut down the moment. You start brushing your teeth because it starts to go, oh, it's sleeping time now. So yeah, that's my first tip. Yeah, that's marvelous. We're deeply

Pavlovian, you know, like ring the bell, start salviating. Salivating. Could be, Stevie. Could be. Or not. Could be. you know, I think that pronunciation is up for grabs actually. Or pronunciation. Have I said pronunciation wrong? It's pronunciation, I think. Oh. I don't know.

Again, I don't know. Oh, forget it. I feel I'm just, I'm widely read, but shortly spoken. I've read, I've often not said some of my best words out loud before. I think it's about, even though these all sound like such boring, tedious things to do. It's all about like tricking your body into being. like, oh great, this is when we, this is, you know, there's a really nice study about babies who's, who are working in the office, babies in the office who just can't switch off. You know,

they're letting the stress get to them. And they played, mothers who had watched East, whose favourite show was EastEnders when they were pregnant and had sat, made time to sit down and watch EastEnders. When they then played the boom, boom, boom, boom, theme tune to babies, those same babies, not just any babies, they all relaxed and went calm because they knew to, that's what they had associated being like, and now we're sat down and we're doing this. And so we're such creatures of habit,

we're so capable of tricking ourselves into things like that. And so I think it's like the flag waving, exactly as you say, that we begin the work with a flag and we end the work with the flag. And so rather than just like opening your eyes and picking up your phone and immediately looking your emails, which is such a bad idea.

And I say that as somebody who absolutely does that every morning. being like I get up, I get up early, I put my shoes on, I get dressed, I walk around, I go outside, always go outside, get a plum, have your plum, have your porridge, you go outside, if you have some breaths of fresh air, ideally a walk, but if you truly hate that, you just, you're out on your, you've gone and stood outside the door, you've been outside before the work begins. Otherwise you will just allow, it's not particularly because you need the fresh air, it's because to force yourself to fully go from one space to another space rather than allowing your bed space to just roll seamlessly on to becoming your work space. And so we're clearly making

these like, you know, we've broken up the day into these like, we're clearly making a distinguishing between, as we've waived the flag, we've gone outside, we've had our breakfast, we've walked around, we've put our shoes on, we've done whatever, and now the work begins. Yeah, and also all of these things can be modified. So for me, it's not shoes. It's bra. So it's like, I think I've said it before, when the bras on, the work happens. And all of those things are on, brains on. Bras on. Bras on brains on. That's, So much better. And then do you take the bra off as your flag distinguishing to say that that's the end?

Not really because, well, actually, no, I do because I do, my personal choice, only during lockdown, this is not my life. I haven't ever really done it before. But I was so worried I was going to go completely mad that I sort of went the other way and went to almost too, I don't really recognise myself. I do work a workout every night when I finish. And so then I have to change my bra to go into the sports bra. Perfect.

And then bra off in the shower. probably brought a knot back on pajamas. Pajamas, early bed. Early bed. I'm in bed by eight. Having eaten dinner. I'm not eating. Straight it.

But you've clearly, you've changed your clothes. Like I think what's so, change the clothes, change the mindset. Change the space, change, you know,

just like, make sure that you aren't just being like, oh my God, here I go again and being like, oh, I'm doing my working my pajamas. Ha ha ha ha. So quickly becomes like,

what are my pajamas? I just live in, what is this? I just live like a big, big, big, big slug. Big slug, yeah. One of the things that Sophie said in the room,

which I think is important, is about the idea that like the concept of, oh, well, you're at home so you could do way more work. So that is actually an outside force. That's your, and I've felt this, I don't even have a job. I don't know what Sophie does, but I'm not, I'm pretty sure that we don't do the same job.

But even the small things that I do, I've noticed that people demand a lot more from me because I'm at home, and they expect me to be free, they expect me to be able to do things or like learn to edit things, do things that I've not, that wasn't previously part of the job that I would do.

And also at all hours as well, giving me less notice for things that are quite involved. So one of the things that keeps coming up is, well, the idea of having a designated cutoff point for you, great, but also it's actually equally, important to have a cutoff point for your colleagues as well. So you can say to them, if you feel comfortable and you have a working environment, you can do that. You can be like, so I'm not going to be

responding to work emails in the evenings and the weekends. And it's very scary to say that, but it's actually very, very normal. A lot of people, I've got a friend who has recently done that after the first lockdown was a complete disaster. And she ended up working all hours. And she's told her boss this. And her boss is like, okay and then if you don't feel comfortable doing this then you just that you just go about your life like that so then you know there's not going to be anything that is so important that you must do at 930 in the evening when they email you and one of the ways you can do that is you can turn off your email notifications and you might think well in the day I'm not going to see my emails then when you're working you're constantly checking your emails so you app i've turned mine off um for the

sort of month or so and I was terrified. I thought I've missed loads of emails. I don't at all. I check my phone just as much as I need to to check if there are any emails and not get drawn in all the time. So it means in the evening if someone, if someone work emails me, I don't see it. And so I don't get drawn in. And so now people have stopped like messaging me or what's uping me or whatever about work in the evening because I just don't respond. And I respond the next day at nine or you know, 10. And that's pretty much 90% of time fine. So the idea of like setting boundaries and really clear boundaries so that then people aren't asking too much of you, I think is also really funny. It can be scary to think, well, I can't do that.

You absolutely can. And you can just like present it in a nice way. Yeah, I think we need to step away from the idea of like I have my lunch at my desk. I'm there all the time. I work through the night. Like, you know, this is what I give to my work and to my boss and be like, no, you're a human being and you need to be like, these are my things. And if you say to your boss, like for my own health, I'm made. making sure that I do this and this.

Like I can't, I, you know, just be clear that like, you know, you don't have to live in fear of this person. Like, firstly, they're a human being and I'm sure they will totally understand and agree. And, and secondly, like, you, it's a, it's a job. Like, it's, they are entitled to protect you and to look after you and to make sure that you are doing your job as best as you possibly can. And so if you're clear that, like, it will be best if I'm not, I will be only working between nine and six and I won't be responding to emails.

and be prepared and put on an out of office, you know, at six o'clock or whatever your, yeah, if you have to, whatever your cutoff thing that just says, like, thank you for your email. My work hours are nine to six or whatever yours happen to be. I will respond to this in the morning. And people, like, just as Stevie saying, I've really noticed that you've turned your notifications of Stevie, like on WhatsApp or whatever. I'll message you sometimes. Just a good old, a good meme.

Sometimes it's work-related. Sometimes it's something humorous. And I'll see that. there's no blue tick. And rather than thinking like, I'll just think like, oh, she's not,

she's not seen it, you know? If you set your bar out as somebody who is available, you will be available. Like, you will be, when I first,

last year, did some work in America. I was so desperate to be, you know, easy going and no problem at all and always available, that they would say, like,

what they said to me, what should we do about the time difference? What do you want your cutoff time to be? That was a thing that people actively said to me. And I said, oh, no cut off,

no problem. call me whenever, which meant that I received calls at 4 a.m. They were everyone like, can you take a call? Like that, you know, woke me up and me like, of course I can, yes, of course, you know. And then the, and then the second time that, so that took me one go, to be like, this is absolutely horrendous. So the second time someone said, what do you want your cutoff time zone to be? I said, 8pm, my time.

That's the last time I'll take call. Which everyone says, fantastic. That's we know, that's written down. That's where we know that's the last time to schedule a call with you. And it's so easy. And it's, not only is it's so easy to fix. it's so easy to fall into that like, I'm available, I'm fine, I'm good, I'm business, but actually it makes people respect you when you respect your own boundaries, like it makes people

be like, oh, click, click, and they think of their own like, they think, oh yeah, maybe I should do that. Exactly. No one thing is interesting because work WhatsApp groups such a huge part of work life culture and they are absolutely, obviously, thriving now when people aren't in the office. And even if you don't feel comfortable, you don't live in a workplace where you can, you can, say, I, my boundaries are this. You're just for whatever reason, it's not, you know, then one of the things you can do is to just not be active on the work WhatsApp

groups in the evening and the weekends. And then again, that's subconscious cues to your work colleagues, that you're not available in the evening. So they will, that will affect when they email you as well. And when they expect you to be on a Zoom call till like, you know, nine or whatever. And I've actually just turned off the, what's the word, the red receipt. no one can see when I've read a WhatsApp. And I can't recommend that more because when they see how,

when people, people used to see how quickly I would read their WhatsApp. It's just then it just makes people message you more and go like, oh, she's actually much more available on WhatsApp than she's on email. So I'm just going to WhatsApp. So like my agent WhatsApps me. Everyone WhatsApps me whenever everyone wants to be worked. So I was like, this has to stop.

Yes. Also, another sort of, another thing to do with tech is one of, One of my friends has started hiding her laptop and she has a work phone and a normal phone, but she basically not hiding, but she just puts it in a drawer away over weekends and evening. So that there's no, so that she can, because you know, like, even though, even if you don't think that you're thinking about work, you just like get a glimpse of your laptop and it'll just come into your head like an email or a thing or you're just aware of it. So actually putting it away is, and she doesn't, I think, a lot of people, a lot of these tips about like work-life balance, always say, you know,

go into a different room and a lot of people don't, most people, and I don't have that privilege. Like, I do pretty much, I have to do a lot of my work on my bed because we don't have an office. And, and I live for someone who also works, so we kind of alternate. But, and yeah, it's horrible having to work in your bedroom. It's not nice. But like, there are things that, yeah, there are other, if you do all the other things around it, then you can minimize how it feels. and I think that neatly leads on to like one of the main issues is that like nobody or specifically of this generation but I say the majority of the country don't have a mahogany study that they can go to that's their special workplace that's in the lovely turret of their house and has it. Despite what Instagram will tell you because everyone on my Instagram seems to have an office like suddenly.

Yeah. Just working overlooking this bubbling, babbling brook. Yeah. you're like, oh, cool, oh, cool. But is there, I mean, some of them have just got a lovely room, good for them. But is that lovely? And well done. But is there somewhere in your house or in your space that you can create?

And if you think, like, of course I can't, but you're like, okay, but is there? Like, is there, can you move some furniture? Like, can you create a small area that you make really lovely and you put some fake flowers and some nice pens and you're like, oh, this is my desk? Like, can you compromise some other area of your room or your bedroom? building or your space whatever and like or is there if you know if you're in a block of flats is there a communal space or something that you can book out like is there you know is there somewhere else to go like round the back of out where I live there's a quite a weird studio where an artist lives and I went around to be like is any of the any of these free and they were like oh yeah nobody's been

in for ages and here's the key and it's all a bit sort of you know clandestine but then there's a a space for me to go. And so, you know, don't just, don't just close that avenue down straight away because you haven't got the attic room. Like, is there somewhere else that you can make your workspace? Because that will make the biggest difference being like, this is my, this, or just, or just creating a area of your floor. Yeah. So on the floor in my bedroom. Because my bedroom is tiny and it's like the majority of the floor space is the bed. But there is like slivers either side. So I just sit with my back to the bed and, okay, cool, my bum goes, like, dead after a while. And it's not ideal.

But it is, it's slightly better than just sitting on my bed where I've been sleeping for 12 hours. So, yeah, even now, if you're like, I can't move any furniture around, it even helps doing something as bizarre as that. And also it feels a little bit like your little work nook, even though it's on the floor. Creating a work nook for yourself that has your things and has your bits. And it's like, and something ideally that you don't have to move. Like, I think the stress of like having to carry the dining room table to one corner and then carry it back. Like, can you create something small somewhere? And then to be like, to distinguish to be like, this is the soft area.

This is the soft space and we don't do any business in this area. And we don't deal with our, we have no crisis talks with housemates and things like, we don't talk about business here. This is a soft corner. Let's go into the work area and talk about the thing. Otherwise, you just blur this. this endless osmosis of like, osmosis, could be. Could be. It just all blurs into one big, you know,

it all becomes one thing of the same colour rather than clear blocks of like home life, work life, but, you know. Yes, definitely. And as well, it's saying about people who have housemates, the, one of the things that you can do, well, one of the things I found very helpful with my housemate is we don't, we're not, like we have like a no work talk rule.

Yes. So sometimes it is broken and sometimes it has to happen. But when it happens both ways where suddenly like he'll be like, oh, we're talking about work. And it's like, oh, right, yes. And then it just helps if you have, so if you've got like, you know, you're living with five people and you're constantly, people are constantly talking about their jobs and stuff, then that will just create an environment where you're like, oh, maybe I'll just find out of a quick email. Or it just, it creates, it's very hard, it's even more hard to kind of separate the two when everyone's just talking about work all the time. So if you all kind of muck in together trying not to talk about work after a specific

point, whether that's 630 or whether that's 5.30 or whatever, that can help too. You're all in it together. Yes. And if you've set all these boundaries and you really try, and people are still, your office are still like, you know, at 5 o'clock being like, sorry, can you just do, can you just do this entire presentation for Thursday or whatever? And you're like, well, I guess I can because they know, and this is why it's so hard, they know that I'm not going anywhere or doing anything tonight because I can't.

And saying just, one of the things that's been most helpful for me when I've been getting older and working with more people is you don't have to say why. You can just say. So saying like, I'm afraid I've got a bit too much on right now, but I can get this done first thing tomorrow for you, is the most empowering thing that you can possibly say. It doesn't matter if the thing you've got on is you've decided to get cold water swimming because your brain needs it

or because you've decided that your cutoff point is half five and that's when you work till. If you can do it the next morning when you get up and when you go to work, then they don't need to know why and they don't need to know anything other than it's the end of the working day. You don't have to say,

oh, sorry, I've got this, and this and there's, oh, I'm lying, I guess, so I'll just have to do it. Like, no, it's, you're, you have to start prioritising your life just as much as your work, otherwise there is no balance at all. If you just, if, if your life is something that you just like squeeze in when people don't ask you to do things, then there's, yeah, that's not going to sustain itself at all, especially during lockdown. Absolutely. I think no is a full sentence. And discovering that is one of the most, like, powerful things that you, you can ever learn. And, And we've got to get better at being like, we've got one short, mad life.

Like, don't spend it beholden to somebody else. And making up, making, and feeling that you have to lie about all the important things that you're making up a fake important excuse, but why you can't do some work. When the answer is just like, I don't want to. Yeah, I can't do this now. I've already given you 10 hours of my day to day. I have to have something for me. And you don't have to say all that part.

You just have to say exactly as Stevie says, I won't be able to do that to the best of my ability by tomorrow. However, by the end of Friday or whatever, you know, a day that is achievable. And people will be so respectful of that in a way that you imagine people will be like, oh, they're lazy, but they won't. They'll be like, wow, that is a person with a shit under control. Which is why it's helpful to have a have a routine. So, like, I have an accountable kind of routine where it's six.

I do like these Zoom exercise classes. So I have to do it at six, six or seven. that's I have to. I can't just like rock up at half six because half of it's done and then there's no point I don't know what's going on. So it means that if someone wants me to do something after six, I have no choice but to be like I'm doing it tomorrow. Or yeah, but no, that's it because otherwise I'm going to be like a sweaty mess and I

can't speak or do anything. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think do try and surround yourself with people that will hold you accountable. You know, if that means like starting a WhatsApp group with, your pals from work or whatever that's like, and now we're having lunch or now we're all finishing or, you know, having those things in your day that are deadlines that are like,

oh, I have to leave now. I have to, you know, do X, Y and Z. And creating a sort of office in inverted commas environment with other people that's like, we're all going to lunch now or we're all during this. Or, you know, can everyone in the house have lunch together and not talk about work and be here from 12 till 1 and give themselves some mental space

in creating those clear, if what you're doing, I suppose, is creating, or I've thought of it, Stevie, a rainbow of colours that's your clear day that's like yellow is, you know, a clear distinguished in colours of like, this is what I'm doing now, blue is my work, red is my home life, yellow is eating, and making them clear, clear, clear, no blending. Otherwise you just make one shade of puse, you know,

if you just blend all the colours of the rainbow together. So clear, clear, clear. And I just want to, one final thing is, just a top tip here from Christoph del who from 1992 to 2002, do you want to guess what he was, Stevie? A welder. So close. He was a nuclear submarine officer.

So he for months at a time lived on a submarine, sometimes totally alone, sometimes with other people, which is the most intense, obviously, form of confinement. And he has spoken about lockdown and how to help and been like, and he just puts like, schedule, schedule, schedule, like routine, routine, routine, like this is the the only thing. And like even on that nuclear submarine when they were there doing such intense, I have no idea what you've been doing a submarine, build things, check stuff. Like, you know, they had whole huge bits of the ship, the submarine, were designated to exercise, to movie rooms, to playing games, to, you know, whole sections of it were especially there because if you don't have

that clear, like, and now we all go and play a game together, and now we all go and do this, like you will go, you know, so you're going to. Yeah. Like, Tuesday is games night with all your pals. With all your pals. Thursday, you always cook a crazy fun meal with all your housemates. And like having that as a thing then gives you a, well, I can't do that presentation, which clearly you don't need for 9 a.m tomorrow. Because it's games night and I've bought a game for it.

It's game. For God's sake. I've got this. And he also said a really interesting thing. He was very critical of the lockdown that we're currently going in for it being. shorter but what everyone expects is that it's going to extend. So even from when this lockdown began, it was like, yeah, but it'll probably be longer. And he was like, what you need to do for people mentally is to be like set it at like 45 days.

And then it's shorter to give it hope rather than once you're in it, you're like, fuck it. It'll probably go on forever. I'll go to the parbarol. And that's why people are pissing about. And he also says to not project yourself more than five days into the future. So don't, if things are feeling overwhelming and you're like, oh my God, this is going to be forever or whatever. you know, I can't work from home for this long. Be like, can you work from home today?

Yes. Can you work from home tomorrow? Yes. Like, you're going to be okay. Just like keep that timeframes in your mind short and make sure that those five days that you're always working five days ahead. You know, not letting yourself work more than five days ahead, but those five days are clear and filled with like activities,

social stuff, routine. You're like, you know what's coming. You know what's happening. You don't allow yourself to project too far into the future. Yeah, that's really good. Really helpful. There's one more thing that my first. friend did that I thought was very helpful and I've started doing is that in terms of having something

to kind of sort of anchor you to finish the work off and then so you can start the fun time or just the relaxing or just stirring into space is um she makes a list so like of everything that she needs to do work wise the next day so it's like you know like when people struggle to sleep that's a great one so then it's like all down so you don't so you then you don't spend the evening being like oh yeah I've got that thing oh no because you've put it all down. down so it's all ready for you. So it feels like you've completed the day. And even if you have got everything done, you're just like, well, put it on the list, you know. But I'm at least there. And then I close the notebook and I walk away and I walk away from this. And yeah, and so I hope some of this

has been helpful. I think the main one is like be confident enough to tell your boss like, these are my rules. These are my, these are my times. And set your own boundaries. Set your own Take the control back. Take the control back. Get out. Breath of out. Make sure you stand physically outside before you come back in and begin the work. No emails in bed.

The soft area. Sit on the floor. Build a work nook if you possibly can. Turn your email and the notifications off. So you're not seeing, you're not like drawn to, you know, work things after hours. Have something to have something to, have something to, that finishes your day and begins your relaxation. acts. A little bookmark. Yeah, and wave that little flag and be like, that's done.

Next activity, beginning. Do flag making. That's a good idea. Yeah, why not? Why not? And also keep your weekends sacred. Do not work weekends. That is not, unless like you have a job where you only work weekends,

in fact, which goes, off you go. But where possible, try and keep weekends as your time, because then you'll be so much more able to start work again on Monday and so much more able, you just feel, you won't feel like you're losing yourself. Weekends are for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Well, Sophie and everybody are listening. I hope this has been some help. If you've got a suggestion for future episodes, the email is Nobody PanicPodcast at gmail.com and the Twitter is Nobody PanicPod. It is. I'm at CVM. The S's a 5 if you want to follow me. And I'm at TessaCote. And have a good, have a good, healthily balanced week, everybody. See you.

you next. See you next. Bye-bye.