Nobody Panic - How to Have Friends with Benefits

Episode Date: September 6, 2022

Do you want a FWB? Or do you really want a FB? Or perhaps an R? Tessa and Stevie navigate the tricky world of the hang and bang (copyright: Tessa) and ask the question that no popular film has ever asked: can people who are attracted to each other ever be friends? Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded by Naomi Parnell and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Hey, bebes. I regret starting it like that. How are you doing? There we are. It's going to be a sexy one. Someone's had a friend with benefits and someone has not. Can you guess which one it is, Bebe?

Yeah, welcome to Nobody Panic. I'm Stevie. Tessa is over there. Hello. We are doing an episode today on how to have friends with benefits. How to have a friend with some benefits or a thwub. A fub. Perhaps even more than one. it is a suggestion and here is their name no it says very particularly I would like to remain anonymous in capital letters

but please please please do an episode on how to be friends with benefits many exclamation marks I want more information I know nothing more so clearly it's a starting out for no name I'm hungry for more what's going on here

I could analyse from this alone and I will No, it's a very juicy one And the energy of the message suggests it's perhaps Tricier than first thought And ongoing Oh and on, oh and on Very much ongoing

Okay, well before we get into it Maybe we should do our adult things Absolutely Mine is that I did a long drive Okay Happy to be here And I looked at where the cheapest petrol was That is good

And I drove, made it on route, and then I went there and I filled up the car all the way up to the hilt. To the hilt. Which was extremely expensive, but at least it was cheaper than stopping on the motorway or whatever. And just finding any petrol station. You actually did your research and planned your route. And I planned my route and I did my research and I worked out where the cheapest one was because, as we all know, we are facing a cost of living crisis and fuel is through the roof. Fuel is actually breathtakingly expensive. Yeah, my dad was saying, my dad drove from up north to London and he said that it took.

It costs him £85 to fill up his tank. It's insane. But admittedly, it would be cool if this adult thing came with no prior, you know, I didn't have to learn it the hard way. But all adult things are about learning it the hard way. You're not born as a baby and you're like, I'm going to plan my route to fill up my petrol. It never happens. You're right, you're right.

God, I've got to get more fuel efficient. You've got to get it wrong to get it better. Yeah, thanks, Steve. And Stevie, of course. Thank you, Steve Martin though, for joining this. Very good. He's been here the whole time, silent. But happy to be here.

Third co-host. Yeah. Always has been. How did you get it wrong? I learned it because I drove somewhere and then I had to start. I was, and the red light came on. I thought, well, I wonder how far I can make it. Incidentally, my school friend believed the red light was part of the dashboard.

Yeah. It was just a light. It was just one of the lights that lit up the dashboard. Yeah, saying like, hey, yeah, I'm still a car. I'm a car. But honestly, and I, and it's funny because we all, we all did. Anyway, the light had come on and I was like, I wonder how far I've got. And I was like, I don't know if I'm going to make it off the motorway.

So the adult thing was like, don't fuck about because I have twice as a teenager run out of petrol. On the motorway. One wasn't on the motorway. They were both on A roads. But nonetheless, I was like, this is very bad actually. Twice. Yeah. Anyway, so I don't run out of petrol anymore.

That's great. So I was like, don't mess about. Imagine how much you would pay to not be in that pickle once you've run out. Just pay. So I'm pulled into Beckonsfield services. It was 1.89 a litre, which I know to you is simply nothing. Your eyes just glazed over. 1.1.89, that's fine.

Blood fell from your nose. Yes. But that is like catastrophic. What was it when you like were starting out with your driving? Back in the day. Yeah. Okay. When I started driving, you definitely, the minimum you spend at the petrol station used to be £2.50.

So you definitely could put just £2.50 worth of £1. And I feel like that's what you did. Yeah. Well, you can't do that anymore. because you literally would not have enough petrol in the tank. To leave the... To leave the... To leave the...

To leave the forecourt. So it's gone up... It's gone up by, I think, about 40 pence. It used to be... You would have once been like... It's 147 on the motorway, and it should have been about 120. Fine, right.

And so it's gone up by 20 to 89, so it's gone up by 60 pence, a litre. And you think, like, ah, 60 pence, schmickshmi-stri-pans. But if you can put 100 litres in your car... Oh my God. You know? Like, that's...

A million pounds. Two ladies with very little understanding of cars or money. Or petrol. Or certainly not petrol. But like it is, it is, you know, it very quickly. And you're filling up the car multiple times. Anyway, so I stopped there and I did the minimum spend, which was £10 there, just to get myself home. Which I was so good.

And then when I was there, I was like, right, where is the cheapest for me to fill all the way up? And I felt brilliant. That's so good. And did you just Google cheap petrol stations? I had to ask for that. Understood, yeah, fine, that's fine. But sometimes asking for help is all part of adult life. I think, again, always asking for help.

Always. I was brave enough to ask for help. Yeah. Okay, mine, very, very easy. When I arrived here, I realised I didn't have an adult thing, so I cleaned my phone because I've been needed to do it for a while. Is it an adult thing if you sort of knew you had to do one and did it? No, but the intention doesn't really matter. It's all about the effect it has. I do not think the intention negates the result.

That's what I was trying to say, but I forgot the cool way of saying it. If the result is good, the result is good. And my phone, like, it's not like the phone screen. It's, I've got, like, a clear phone cover so I can throw my phone all over the place. It doesn't smash. This is the only phone I've had that hasn't smashed this year because I throw my phone all over the place. And it's see-through, and like lots of bits got in it. And it's a lot of crumbs.

And it's been like the for six months. It's really disgusting. Took it out, cleaned it. I feel exactly the same as I did before, but I've got a clean phone. So, look, who's to say if that's helped me, but it's certainly an adult thing. Clean, clear, under control. Oh, my God. That's clear.

isn't it? Yeah. And it's your clean phone. I'm my clean phone, yeah, but I just needed to know what that was. Okay, so may I start the friends with benefits, or as I'll be referring to it, fwub with asking you,

have you had a fwub? Yes, I have had a foo. Of course. What was the more sexually liberated of the tools? Imagine being less sexually liberated than me, you know? Imagine that being your position. I don't have to imagine it, Tessa. Right, okay.

I'm sorry for giggling so outrageously. Just to be clear, we're not talking about a friend you've had sex with once. That's not off-wub. No, we are talking about what I repeatedly attempted to call, and attempted to get him on board with, and another. I called them my hang and bang. Oh, I remember this era. The hang-and-bang era was me trying to get people who wanted to hang out with me,

but also sometimes bang. Yes. How successful was it? Very poor. Oh, right. Which is why I have done it once with moderate success, and I have two others and poor success, which is why, and I do not wish to analyze you,

but my suspicion from this email... Oh, I thought you were talking about analyzing me. I was like, good Lord. I would never dream of it. But my suspicion from this email is it's like... This is my interpretation. Oh, I'll give that a go. Oh, dear.

Yes. Well, this is why, if I may, I've not fobbed, because it's hard enough to get me into the sack as it is, Tessa. But, like, if I don't know, if I'm friends with... with them somebody else. We know if I fancy them, I can't look at them. So I wouldn't be friends with them anyway, because I can't look at anyone they fancy. But if that was going to be a thing that I think I would want a relationship, I don't think I'm able to like somebody's personality, fancy them, I want to have sex with them, I want to hang out with

them, and not be like, can you be my boyfriend? Yeah. Obviously, I'm talking very heteronatively and I think because I'm talking about myself. And this is for literally any fob. So yeah, that's very personally because I can't be bothered with the emotional, admin and turmoil. I think I did have a fo' up for a long time that was a relationship. It was essentially like, oh, this is like a Shakespeare quote, like a rose is a rose by all the name, something to do with the rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Very simple as well. I may tell the one with the English degree. The same, the same thing I said. A rose, a rose is popping up the nose and you have sex

with it. And that's just a quote. I like, no, that's because I think I, I think I had a under the name of it was called a relationship. Right. And very much, and he would say, you're my girlfriend. But the vibe was very much like, oh, you just want to like hang out and bang occasionally. Like, there was no element of a relationship. And then it became a relationship later and that was very bad. So I think I actually was in one without anyone saying that that's what it was.

Huh. Okay. Which I don't think counts as being in one. Because I think if you're in one, you were like, I would like a friend. I think people want to know how to do it or like have a friend with benefits. And I think the idea of it is so nice. But yeah, so that's what I'm saying. I just feel like it's one of those things that if you are stressed about it, it's possible.

I feel like it must be very difficult to not just be like, why fancy them, you know? Yes. So straight off the bat, I'm going to say it's a very difficult thing to do and it's a very difficult thing to do. No, I lie. It is extremely easy to achieve, very hard to do it well. Yes, do it so you're not hurt. Neither party are hurt. No, the party is hurt.

There is, of course, a film called Friends, with benefits. Yes. Fubbs to the industry insiders. Yes. With Justin Timberlake and...

Nealakunis. I think you say me and me. And me Lecunis. Well done. I was going to try to help you to guess and I was going to say she's got very big eyes. Who, do you know who I?

That could be anybody in Hollywood. Well, they are big, though, aren't they? They are very good. Anyway, well done for remembering. Thank you very much. I couldn't think who it was. And of course, it goes poorly. Yeah.

And they fall in love. Yeah. And so it is, And the film, when Harry met Sally, and those are the two only films that have ever discussed love and romance. But everything is sort of talking about this idea of like, can you separate sex and love? Like, can you be friends who have, and that's something like, if you are good friends who like hanging out and have a good time, and you also bang, like, why don't you just go out, you know? Well, there's this element, yeah. And I think there's a difference or from what I can gather from my research.

And there's a difference between a fwb and a fub. Please. A fub. that W in between the F and the B there, friends with friends with benefits. The Fub, which is the fuck body, feels like it's just a synonym, but it's not. So the friends with benefits feels like,

just emotionally it's helpful to like separate them out. Someone you have sex with and you also do the friend activities. So you're still friends with them, you see them at birthday parties, you might go grab a bite, hang and bang, you know? But there's some sex occurs. A fub, fuckbody, someone who you have sex with,

you don't do other things. So it's somebody, so that often, like, with the rise of like, with the rise of Tinder, She says 20 years after Tinder became a thing. With like dating apps and things like that, that is so much easier to do now. And also, as well, I do not have any experience in it, but what I do have lots of friends or multiple friends who do,

and it seems like a thub is much easier to deal with emotionally because often it's like, yeah, I wouldn't have a relationship with that person. But like, what, I grow up bang and like that. So whenever they're both like, you know, out and about, often with different friendship groups, because there's no crossover. It's like, are you out? let's go home together, great.

But like the thwub is so hard precisely because I think every single time, the two friends I'm thinking about, every single time there's been issues, it's because they've really liked the person. And I think there's a lot of chat on the internet, on the online world that I've been reading about how, guys, it's so important to communicate and to be very clear with boundaries that you don't want a relationship. Neither if you want a relationship,

but you really love hanging out. So you do all the friend stuff, you have sex, but it's never going to tip over into a relationship. And I think the issue appears to be, and I really can't see it, is that, like, yes, that may be the case for, like, both parties at the start, which often it isn't. And often you don't even know that it's not. That's how I got myself in one, because I was like, I thought I felt a way that I did not feel. And it's hard enough to know what you think, rather than having to honestly communicate that to someone else and be in the exact same space as someone else. But the best possible outcome is you do both manage that, at any point one of you could tip over either way. And you don't, you will not know when that is happening to the other person.

You have like a great day out. Like, at the fair, you're like, they get you, they shoot an egg off a stall when you are rabbit. And then you having fun in it. Or like, you're at a party and they're always fun and you're having a great time. There may be a point where suddenly they're feeling like, oh, hang on, why aren't? aren't we going out? Or you're feeling that and you don't even realize until it's too late. And I think that's the issue of like maintaining it.

So even though a thwub is a nicer thought, it's the harder one, as you were saying, to not only get to, but also even when you're like, we've done it at any point the balance could be tipped. Whereas with a thub is very easy. You're just like, hello, bye. Well, no, you're not staying for breakfast. You're my fub. And the moment it gets any further, you're like, well, I know. Yep. Yep.

Yep. You're exactly right It never doesn't come with this huge emotional Minefield And people I know who have done it I know somebody who was Friends of Benefits with a couple So there was three of them involved

And had to end because the extra part The one that was not part of the couple It was too much for me that afterwards They got to like spook and had to hang out And then I just Went home, got my Uber Or like if we watched a movie or whatever afterwards, like they still got to be intimate and romantic and like, you know,

I couldn't also be hugged. Oh, good for the Lord, it's incredibly depressing. Right? So, like, it's a really hard thing to navigate. And much like my initially criticised, but ultimately appreciated, one night stand thought when I was like, to truly have an excellent one night stand, you have to fancy them, but actually quite dislike them. Yeah, I think when you sit down, I was like, what?

but actually, no, I do, I understand that. Yeah, because ultimately, because initially you're like, what are you talking about? But ultimately, like, to have truly good, and it to be, because the crucial word is one, it's like to truly walk away and be like, well, absolutely, bang and night, goodbye. It has to be like, I don't want anything more from you. This was a good time and we had a good time. And so when you go into this friends with benefits relationship and I speak to, the listeners, and also to our email writer, be like, what do you actually want?

And be really clear because there is no greater lie than the lie that you tell yourself, is like, do you wish just to be like, I just want somebody to touch me occasionally. Yeah. Please just touch me. Yeah. Come on. I want the D.

Yeah. Or the P or just someone to rub my... The A. The A. Rub my nipple. Come on. Bionnually, rub my nipple. By annually, rub my nipple for God's sake.

You know, whatever it is that you want. And truly, it might just be like, I'm a very sexually active person. I'm extremely thriving in my career. I simply want a monthly release with somebody and we do this thing. Today's episode of Nobody Panic is brought to you by the National Lottery. They've asked us to delve into a question that's had all our minds racing at one point or another. What would you do if you won the National Lottery?

And we are not alone. We're joined by the hilarious Dane Baptiste and Howard Cohen hosts of the brilliant podcast, Dane Baptiste, Questions Everything. Hello! Hello! How's it going? I've just won the National Lottery. I know you haven't. You have you? Yeah. Okay. So, guys, here are the rules. You've just won the National Lottery Jackpot. It's the stuff dreams are made of. What would you do at that moment?

Just call my mum. Just give her a call and go, Mum, there's got some news. She'll be pumped because she likes, you know, she likes a few quid. Yeah, she likes a couple of quid. Yeah. I think I'd immediately go to toilet on myself. I'm not re-recording that bit. But we can all celebrate in different ways, can't we? I think that's the most genuine way of realising that two people with a giant check at your door would make you react to Stevie. So I think that's fine. That's very truthful. Me personally, I'm more of a cautious optimist with a lot of strong bladder control and trepidation.

So I'd be like, I'm going to see that in my account. And I'm not waiting three to five business days before. And then I'd be like, hooray. And then I'd be celebrating and people like, sir, you must put your clothes on. you're in a residential area and I'd be like, I'm going to buy this residential area! I wouldn't tell anybody,

I'd keep it really secret for a long time and I would just let the knowledge drive me insane. You'd be like, is that a burberry trouser? Just one trouser you're wearing. Suddenly, it's like a gold. It's not a gold hat. How are you going to celebrate? How are you going to let everyone know?

Are you going to do a party or what are you going to do? I think a party for how rich you are, feels wrong. I think a party for how rich you are. It's basically like you create in a chat room for your future thieves. They all meet in the room. It's like, look at Howard. Look how much money he spent on this.

He doesn't deserve this. And then everyone comes together who knows you, who has time to cake. It's basically like you're making your own oceans 11. So I wouldn't throw it in people's face right away. I think I'd start off with some acts of philanthropy first. I was going to say, I think I'd save some whales. like research was like a good one and be like... I'm not doing any of that.

I'm definitely doing something more stupid like making a cake of whales. Like yeah, maybe a whale cake. And I ask you all to this... Actually, it doesn't take a lot of money to do that. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I'll drop like half a mill on this giant whale cake, right? And you're all going to turn up.

It's going to be like this big thing, like a David Blaine event. Howard, I think it's very important given a cost of living crisis to create feelings of goodwill. I think the people turn against you Howard at this party. The people turn against you very easily, Howard. I've turned against you Howard. I really want to know Dane's most extreme scenario he can imagine.

Right. The most extreme scenario I can imagine is investment in a company. I'm lactose intolerant and I know many people around the world share that pain. And so I become the Ben and Jerry's of the lactose-free frozen treat world where I can offer delicious treats which are completely lactose-free. and made with sustainable packaging. I don't think you understand how big, big ice cream has been ruling the world for years.

No one's ever challenged them. Now I get to challenge big ice cream. Born and jollies, even better. Hug and Dane. Hug and Dane will do. Oh, hug, or Hugging Dane. That's another name. Then, then...

It's used with a hug or your arms on the cover anyway. Exactly. And then finally, my opus, the afterlife festival, to resurrect the majority of celebrities that were lost in the 2016 celebricide, when so many celebrities died at the same time and then they all come back for the same festival. You want to hear Robin Williams read poetry

then you come to the Afterlife Festival. Who headlines? Amy Winehouse and Tupac. And basically I have this record label which basically operates in international waters so any recording artist who's bound to a record label who can't make a song with someone they want to, they come to Dame Baptiste Island

and you can make whatever music you want and release it to your fans because we're a sovereign nation and a record label that also sells ice cream. That's lactose-free. Everyone's an aerial. Everyone's on board. Everyone loves it.

Excuse me. I'm coming in. Number one, I saw out the Pacific Garbage Patch. Done. Thank you. Amazing. Cleaned up. I've thought about a plan.

I scoop it up with one of those pool nets. Done. Sort it. Number two, it's a lock-in at M&M world. We're all going. Oh, yes. Which one? What do you mean which one?

No, the one of the M&M houses. The M&M houses work like Soho houses, like there's one in London, one in Malibu. This one's that one on Lester Square that you always walk past and you think, what's in that? Me, me, having the most fantastic party of all time. I'm going to have a lock-in at Body Works,

which is next door to Eminem world with all of those terrifying skinless bodies. And we're going to go head to head. And then ultimately form a coalition and own all of Lester Square. Yes. Bring it back to the people. The trocadero!

Yes. Finally. Finally, it's coming back. Here's a question. Would you move house if you won the National Lottery? No, I'm going to live in my tiny flat forever. Now, of course. I'm out of there.

I have a house like the Browns live in in Paddington. And then I have another massive house out in like the Hebrides or something. And I just, it's like richy rich. it's got everything you could want. You put your laundry, like, you just put your laundry through the wall and it goes like spirals down

into like one of those big laundry things at the bottom. Every room's got a slide. I've got so many fireplaces that you touch and then you spin into a secret room. I've got, I've got the ladder in the library

like in Beauty and the Beast. I've got one of those. It's a dream where she gets pushed along. I've got one of those. I've got everything. It's amazing. It's there. So listen, guys, how long would you stay humble for?

Do you think the cash would go straight to your head, Stevie? I mean, have you heard what anyone said? I think that would actually be the one thing I'd be genuinely frightened of is how I'd psychologically deal with having loads of money. And I think I'd be really good at it. And I'm not going to delve into any further. I'd be very supportive of you. And I think you'd really take it in your stride.

And you'd just always be like, drinks are on me. I'll pick up this bill. All the time. All the time, you know. And then I'd do an Edinburgh show about it called I won the National Lottery, obviously, because that would be great material. That's a really good idea. Do you know, I would do, maybe what I would do for one year of the National Lottery in order to reclaim my humility is that I would pay for everyone's show.

That's nice. Oh, that's so nice. You do a first come, first serve, and whoever gets their entries in for, like, the show. And we just cover the cost of everyone's, like, all the free fringe, all the paid shows, that would basically be how I maintain my humility. Last one. If we all won our individual jackpots and then we pool all our money together

and as a collective group, a syndicate, if you will, what are we doing with our collective money? I would like to recommend the purchase of a media channel so we could put out stuff that was varied and diverse and truly representative of the British creative industry. They're all welcome on. Steve BBC. Steve BBC.

Mine was very similar, but maybe there are a combined force that we have our beautiful channel, but can we also buy a really beautiful theatre? And then can we have comedy and art and poetry and dance? Let's create an alternative to the Fridge Festival and get back to its roots to be like a pool of like creativity. It's a theatre and every single night of the week,

everything that's on is five pounds. That's it. It's for everyone. That's so cool. And it's like for like civil servants, like if you're a nurse or you're a doctor or a firefighter, it's always subsidised. You can go for free. I think we should do something involving ice cream.

Serve the ice cream in the theatre, Howard. How have I ended up of doing, winning the lottery and I'm somehow involved in a bake sale? That feels like a quite a low level. A lot of your ideas come back to cake though, Howard. Well, thanks to the National Lottery for allowing us to live out a life full of newfound riches. I know my next move is to get a ticket, punch in my lucky numbers and make all of this a reality. So remember, the National Lottery is where your numbers make amazing happen, whether that's a big jackpot win or national lottery players raising funds for good causes across the country.

Is it that you're like, whatever, it's just hang and bang, you know? So the times I have done it, it fell apart because I kept screaming. It should be called hang and bang. Yeah, of course, yeah. And then the person was like, oh, I'm just really stressed. I think I just, sometimes I'm like, I should just travel Europe. And I was like, I'll come. There we go.

And now it's, now it's international hang and bang. I think that's more difficult to maintain. And now what are we doing? Are we backpacking across Europe? Yeah. You know, and so then it's like, um,

what's this? And it's hard to admit to yourself when you're like, I just want someone to rub my nipple once a month. That like, you're truly, what you'd actually like is like somebody to do things with and somebody who fancied you

and you to be somebody's number one person and what you'd like is a relationship with this person. Yeah, yeah. And so it's very, do not trick yourself into being like, it's just friends with animals. If it's not. If, however,

you're like, listen, I've been around those, I do know what I want. And right now I'm looking for just a sexual partner. And then exactly what you're saying is like this fuck buddy FWB differentiation is a very, very hard one because you now a friendship is at risk. Should this go tits up?

And therefore, much like the one I understand, it's like you have to pick a friend that you actually weren't that good friends with in the first place. Yeah, if you start having sex sex with your best friend. With your best friend. I mean, that is what you're describing that is relationship. goals, isn't it? That's the whole point of a relationship. That's literally described a relationship. And there's no way one of you isn't coming out of this heartbroken. Yeah. You know, if you used to be best friends. Or, and if that is the case, then you weren't as close friends as you thought you were,

you know, like, so that's actually, you know, great. The two things that people seem to say is that, like, you have to tell them, and also yourself, with a thwub, the moment you, and they use the, uh, very youth term, catch feelings. It's not like youth terms. It's like a 10-year-old article. But obviously the reason that people don't is because they know in their heart or are frightened in their heart that they'll get knocked back. It's like, well, it's better it happens now than it happens in five years' time when you're still, you know, when those feelings have grown and grown and grown.

So like you'll be stuck, do you want to be stuck in a sort of limbo? Or do you want to, well, I suppose actually sometimes people do just want to be stuck in limbo. But it is hell. So like it feels like you'd be stuck in limbo, but you'll actually be in hell. So you do need to tell them. and you do need to get out of that situation, the casual thwub. It is a tricky one because if you're like, you had this good thing going on, you were just friends with benefits,

then you're like, uh-oh, I think I might be in love with them, then your instinct might be to like, I shan't say a word and I'll just carry on with what we're casually doing. I'll be fine, I'll fall out on love with them, I'm sure. No, it will only get worse and worse and worse and words, and each day will be a trick, and every time they're like, okay, well, bye. And especially because at some point, maybe one of you starts dating,

you know, then all this other stuff happens, which you're increasingly in this position, would be like, I'm just, I'm cool, I couldn't even be all cool. Yeah, maybe a good, good test is to think like, okay, imagine that the person you want to fub with casually set, so you've got, you've had like great sex and the next morning you have breakfast because you're friends and they're not going to like, oh, they're not going to just like turf you out of the street. And they're like, oh, I've got a date tonight with someone else and you know the person and you know, like, how would that make you feel?

Yeah. Would you go like, oh, okay, yeah, fine. Or would you go like, oh, I feel a bit, no, but I am. overall okay or would you throw the egg at them or want or cry or do you feel sad or do you feel attached to them somebody said that FWB could only really

last for like up to around three months for them and they sort of have to kind of stop it after three months because they will then start to get too attached to the person which is like okay why do you want but some people just don't want to be attached and don't want to have a long term relationship and if you make that

incredibly clear like then of course that can still cause issues. Like I know people who have done that who have been really like very responsible with their like, they've gone through a massive breakup, then had a year of just boning. But that boning has been very much like up front before even they've gone back with them or anything. It's been like, I'm a mess and I can't be in a relationship. I've just going to have a 10 year relationship. I cannot like start. So just so you know, if you're okay with that, then I'm really happy to go back and fuck. But like otherwise I can. And obviously every time it still,

didn't work because the person would then be upset. It's very hard to be on the receiving, even just then when you were saying that to me, I was like, I'm cool, I'm cool. Yeah, I'm cool with that. And you're like, nah, it's really hard because if you are attracted to them, then yeah, you're attracted to them and you're attracted to them for a reason, which is that you want to stay closer to them. Like, it's very tricky because also your chemistry takes over and you can't help

who you kind of can fub and who you struggle to fub with. Absolutely. And I think it's very easy to imagine this sort of, scenario with a person who it all is like working out with and they're just, they're so cool with it and you like each other and you have this fantastic sex, but then you all just like leave and if they were like, I'm going on a date, you'd be like, yeah, have a good time. Yeah, it's the cool girl, isn't it? From the gone girl, which she describes the cool girl. Yeah, it's 100% that. And so you can imagine this scenario. But even if, even if you are the party

that truly is cool with it, that other person is a real human being, you know, with their own like feelings and thoughts and stuff going on. And so what you're aiming for is sort of a real bit of a unicorn, a real sort of like magic, a magic thing. And I do know people, you know, even like I know know, no and still know a woman who is in her 50s. She is European, which I imagine adds to the magic of this. And she 100% has a friend with benefits who visits her once a fortnight.

And she is having the most fantastic time out of it. And this relationship, as far as I can tell, has been going on for, many years spanning decades. I would not have to bet very much money to say he is completely in love with her. Right. Okay. You know, so like here's, who she's like, I have this fantastic lover. He comes, he goes, he has other people. I have other people. He devotedly shows up on her doorstep, you know, week in week out. I'm like, this man, this man's in love with you. You know, so it is, it is very hard. But it's that because we're seeing that through the prism of being like, because also I'm very aware that we've just basically talked about how difficult it is. But like,

We see things, what the other side would say is we were seeing things with this very like normative lens. That if a man turns up every fortnight, that must mean he's in love. But actually it could just be her house is really close to work or these houses really close to the next person he's going to find. I don't know. I've chatted to him and I've tried to him quite a bit. He said, I love her and even like that.

Okay, okay, fine. That is the tricky thing because also as well, like I don't want it to come off like or being like you can't have a friend with benefits. because you literally can. And also as well, because that kind of means then, by definition, we're saying that polygamous relationships

or non-monogamous relationships are difficult. Absolutely. I think even people who are in non-monogamous relationships or would say they are tricky. I think this is just, and again,

we haven't got any more context of this particular person and this is going on, but I think any relationship like this just involves this is your pre-learning, your back history, your past research, what's it called before you go into the exam and it's like,

your prep, revision. Your revision. Your revision. Your, Your background reading. There we go. Your background reading

before we even get into the thing of like, do you definitely want to open this door? Yeah. Are you definitely sure of yourself and definitely what you want? And then if it's like, yes, I'm 100%

this is why I want to. And then it's like, does this other person? And then it's like, okay, in which case you need to find another person who is definitely, definitely on board and be truthful with yourself about whether you're like,

actually, if I'm honest, I think they're probably in love with me and so they're going to say yes to this thing. Yeah. But if they're definitely, definitely into it, then you're like, okay. And truly treat this like a, like a house share.

You know, here are the rules. How often we doing this? Like, when are we doing it? What's our remits? What's our boundaries? What are we sexually into? What are we not into? How do we feel if other people get involved?

It doesn't feel cool and sexy to like take it this level of admin. But like for it to be a success, like that's what it has to be. Yeah, it's true. And also like how you have to re-evaluate every, I mean, let's take the person saying it three months. Three months is just an arbitrary thing that worked for this person. But like every few months, you have to re-evaluate how that relationship. is going and how you feel about it because it could change at any point.

At any point. It could change with literally just a glance and then something's like, uh-oh, and you find that you think about them more and more. Or they are, oh, you're fine, but they're struggling. And I think you can tell when somebody is trying to spend more time with you or asking more and you might not really want that. And I think the thing is, is once somebody, I think a crucial thing, is once somebody, whether that's you or the other person, I think it's easier to do if it's the other person.

So you've got to hope that they do do this for you. But if the other person that you're flubbing with starts to sort of ask more of you than you're willing to give, it is on you as the person who clearly hasn't caught feelings when they clearly have. It's sort of on you to gently end it. It's the kind thing to do rather than be like,

can we not just go back to what we were? No. Once it goes past, you do have to then stop that because that when someone starts sort of acting more like a relationship than a fob, that that's because they are sort of showing you really that they've, they've, they like you. And you can't, it's not unfair of you to demand them to kind of unlike you. Like it's not just as simple as that.

So, and with your feelings as well, I think it's really hard to, I think the tip of being like, if you catch feelings, you just have to tell them, it's so hard to do that. Like to know that you have because the denial is so strong. Like, but try and be as honest as you can with yourself and try to re-evaluate and talk to somebody outside of the friendship group and tell them everything and see and help have someone else evaluate the situation. So if you're like, I don't think I like them. Do I like them? Like, you keep telling me the presence.

I think, I think my next suggestion was going to be that if you are all in the same friendship group that I would keep this on the deal. that like I would keep this quite private not only to like add to the like what is essentially the fun of the frisson, the fun of the frisson but also to like keep everyone else's opinions out of the game here because everyone will be like do you know so

it's like it's not for them it's for you two or three or four to be doing your own thing and either the mystery and the secrecy of it is of course part of the sexia leur and it's like and then no one else's opinion gets involved here and no one says I actually think you'd be a fantastic couple exactly that they like don't pollute the situation But then also it does help that if you can say, yes, so maybe speak to someone.

Neutral. They don't know the person. They don't know you guys. And you can kind of like get advice from somebody who's not involved in it. Yeah, that's a really good point. There's been a couple of people that in friendship groups that I've had that 10 years later I found out that there was a period of time where they were banging. One time was like literally like in the room next door to my room.

I just had no idea. I was like, hello around all the time. Okay. It's just such a funny thing. I don't feel like when I found that out, I don't feel like sad or like, I'm just like, wow. Pass me by. Lucky I'm not a detective. Fair play, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I would say keep it. Keep it on the downline. Keep it quiet. If only for, if only to keep the mystery of it all alive.

And so it's like secrecy, mystery. The two favorite things. And then communicate. Let's make sure we're always on the same page here. Keep reevaluating. Keep reevaluating. And equally don't let our sort of fearmongering stand in your way. As long as you are truly truthful and you know you can do it. then you can absolutely do it as long as you've found that ideal person who also wants exactly what you do. And I think if you attempt it a few times and it hasn't gone well, that isn't to say that this is unachievable or it can't be done, it's just like maybe this person isn't quite on the same wavelength as you, because what you're asking for is quite a specific wavelength to get on.

Yes. Which is like somebody who's also got other things going on in their life and really likes you but doesn't want to marry you, but does want to have sex with you occasionally. in a not, you know, so it's like a lot, there's a lot of, there's a lot going off-line pieces going on there. Absolutely. But equally, no different than finding somebody

who wants to spend their life with you. Well, it's not impossible to do. It's just, it is, I think it's just, the point is, it's trickier than you think. And that's a good thing because I think a lot of people, as we said, right at the start, go like, oh, yeah, great. And then wonder why they aren't enjoying it

or they can't get it right. And it's like, it's not you. You're not the problem. It's the FWB element is difficult. Yeah. The Fubb, way easier. So if you're thinking about a fub,

may I also invite you to first think of a fub before you fub. Because if you are just looking for benefits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why not just fub, you know? Yeah, you know what? Let's begin. That's number one.

At the end of this, number one conclusion, which is can we interest you in the starter pack a fuck buddy? And see how you fly there and see how that goes and see how you do as a pair navigating that

and see if it's for you. And that will show you as well if you're into the purely physical element of a relationship. For example, like, I would not be able to do that. So therefore, I would obviously never be able to FWP. But, like, some people can and do and love it. So then you can dip your toe into the FWP, right?

Because you're like, well, now I know that I can deal with someone arriving as having sex and me not being like, do you want to have breakfast with me and stay here forever? Like, you know. Amen. Exactly. You know exactly what you want.

you know what you're into. And if you're into breakfast, be honest, it's breakfast. Stop trying to trick people into having breakfast with you, for heaven's sake. But if you're like, I'm just absolutely down to clown and I'm very busy at my hedge fund. Yeah. Simply want someone who, you know. And then equally, I would say, suggest having a multiple on the go at the same time. So you don't get that, so you won't get too attached.

You're not too attracted. You also like, should they be like, I'm going on a date. I'm going on a date tonight. So am I with my other phone? You don't have to shout, so am I. You can just quietly be like... Again, this is why I don't do it. So am I actually, and they're real.

They're totally real. They're not a person I've made up just now. So my point is like, you've got multiple people. You don't like to have to attach and it's always this like, oh, so and so is busy or they're with somebody else. Great, I've got my other... So I would say three. And if you're like, three, I can barely find one who wants.

It's like, I think it's that energy is exactly why you're maybe having a struggle with getting that one, hooking that one, duck. It's fine to... Whereas if it's going to try and you're aiming for three, you're like, okay, and then they're on a constant rotation. Three fobs is going to be fucking hard. Yeah, that's what I'm suggesting. The fub, yeah, we are.

Or one fwb and two fubs. Oh, very good. You know, just keep things. And then you can also know, because if you're like, I'm spending all my time with my fob, but I don't really, I can't be bothered to see my fubes anymore,

then you know that you catch a feelings for your fob. Whereas if you're like, it's all equal, you know, this is genuinely equal. Like, I know that I'm actually fine with this. You've got something to compare it to. I had a chat with a polyamorous person the other day. And I was saying, and isn't it a lot of, and they were like admin? I was like, yeah.

And they were like, the secret is a shared Google calendar. Oh my God. That's so funny. And I was like, gosh. And they were like, let me be honest with you. It does take some of the passion away. Yes. But you've got to know who's who and who's with who and who's dating tonight.

Yeah. I'm like, good Lord. Yeah. So it is just about getting the boring stuff up front. And if you're like, I've got this friend, we're not that great friends. I really fancy them. I know there's a bit of something, something. then there's nothing to stop you being like, listen, can I lay something on the line with you?

When you've had no previous experience before, like sexual experience together. Let's bone. Listen, be like, how would you feel about occasionally boning? No strings attached, no bit of bother, you know? And if you feel you could truly get through, you know, have that conversation, then go for it. Yeah. Yeah. And I really think you and I could have a fun time.

Or you just, you know, at a party, you just flirt with them and sit and if they're into it. And then you bone. And then I say, you're like, how did I feel about that? How are they to know that you are not wanting a full out relationship, you know? Well, I think if it comes out of nowhere, so you've got a friend and suddenly you're like, well, we've seemed to have just had sex, then I feel like that's the point of the... Oh, that's a fantastic time to ask the question. Yeah.

But I'm saying just in case they turn around, they're like, great, we're going out now. Well, then that was always... So that's kind of fine, isn't it? Because you have the conversation and they either know, you know, like, you have the conversation after that that's happened. Sure. You make a good point. You know?

I think just, I think, only because yours is better, but I just can't imagine ever anyone going to a party, me like, hey, what do you think about having a bone? Well, this is my thing about, like, this is the level of confidence you need to have in yourself and your wants to be at this position, to doing this well. Yeah, okay. You know? Right.

I'll take it back. No. spreadsheet. Spreadsheet. I'm starting a Google counter with myself. Google counter with yourself. I'm like, as I'm saying, like, you're like, okay, well, whatever. We have a bit of sex and then we, you know, completely.

And that's what happens 90% of the time. But until you're, and it does feel terrifying to just go up to your friend and be like, do you want to bang every Wednesday? You know? Yeah. But like if that's the position, that's the level of self-confidence you need to be in and the level of like totally fine with the level of rejection you're in. Yeah. And then if you're already in there, that's how confident you need to be that when they say,

you need to be constantly asking yourself, they get up tomorrow morning and they say, I'm having a date tonight. Truly, truly, truly, how do you feel about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always presume that they are dating other people because then you'll go like, because they are. And if they're not, and if you're not, then you've, you know, you've gone into RU territory, not FWB.

Well, look, that was, I thought it was quite fun. Yeah. I think we definitely negotiated some of the extreme minefield that this whole... Yeah, because it's not a way that we could tell somebody specifically how to have a FWB, like, literally. But we, I think we've covered it. It's simply like, it's truthfulness and it's communicating and... With yourself.

with yourself most of all. And consider a fub before a thwub. Ask yourself why you want a thwub. Why do you want a fob? And is it one particular person or would you just be like, God, somebody else anyone will do? You know, and that's actually a healthier position to be in than to be like, oh, God, I want Jeremy to be my fob.

It's like, do you or do you want to marry Jeremy? Yeah, why do you want Jeremy to be before? Yeah. Come on. He's fit. We're talking about Jeremy Hunt, yes? Yeah, we're talking about Jeremy Hunt. The Health Secretary.

Won't he touch my nipple once a month? God's sick, Jeremy. I forgot about the biannual nipple stroke, yeah. Biannual now. Yeah. Usually once a month. Bimonthly. Bimonthly.

Come on. It just fades over time. I've got needs, Jeremy. Awful. I don't care for the man. If you'd like to come on the podcast, I've got questions about his... Nipple-stroking technique.

No, about the health system, actually. Fine. Yeah, I think it's this. I think it's this. I think it's this. Jeremy Hunt, we've got some questions for you. And, yes, communicate. No, really know yourself.

and have a nice time in the moment a bit like gambling HQ. When the fun stops, stop. You know? Okay, there we go. It's flawed. Pop us a DM at Nobody PanicPod or email as Nobody Panicpodcast at gmail.com. If you've got any other suggestions for episodes, we will tackle a like we have with this one. And goodbye, friends.

Goodbye, friends. May all your friends come with benefits.