Nobody Panic - How to Know What You Want

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

Stevie has recently had an epiphany involving life goals and aims and would like to share her new thoughts on how to know what you want when it feels like you’ve got no idea. Spoiler: You DO have an idea, you’re probably just either a) scared or b) quite aims-porous and need to have a sit down with yourself.Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Welcome to no help. Hello. How's it going? You know what? Fine. Good. You look very nice.

So do you. Thanks, pal. Both of us look pretty good today. All things considered. All things considered. Trying our best. I'm quite sweaty. That is one thing.

I was on time. That's something. I'd say you were early. I was by five minutes and that is quite... Thank you so much. I was going. I'm really happy for you. Yeah.

The last time I was early, Paul Rudd was in the studio. Yes, and I was late. You missed Paul Rudd. The worst day of my life. I was a worst day of my life because I did talk to Paul Rudd. Yes. And I embarrassed myself so badly, I had to go and lie down. And just to clarify, he was here for off menu and not for us.

So then I feel sort of like, well, don't be early. Because Paul Rudd might be there. But I'm understood. I'm powering through that. I think that's a thing you can think in life, just anywhere you go. Don't be early. Paul Rudd might be there. And you might embarrass yourself so hard.

You'll have to go and lie down. Yeah. Okay. Let's move on. So tell us about this podcast episode. Yes, the seeds were sown for this episode when we did back in autumn, how to be in autumn botch, that kind of feeling of like, no, I like autumn and everybody seems to take the piss out of people that like it.

And it's very like, you know, Taylor Swift basic bitch vibe. And I see a lot of people, for example, actually, Taylor Swift's a good example, who really liked Taylor Swift but sort of have to apologise for it a lot. And then a lot of people who you wouldn't expect to like Taylor Swift being like, like saying it ironically and knowing it's cool because you wouldn't expect them to. And yeah, it made me think like, yeah, just how I expanded that to my life and being like, it's actually becoming increasingly hard to tell what I like and want and what I'm kind of being conditioned to think is good or not good.

And I think obviously social media doesn't help with that. And I think that's why it's becoming quite, I think, more people don't know what they want and don't even realize they don't know until maybe it's too late or they have to do something like I've been doing like organize a wedding party for my like you know or I go like oh god what do I actually want at that party? Or what am I doing for like the bit? You know, like people arrive and be like well anything you know like when people arrive

and you go like oh this be like cool if this happens like yeah but do I want that is that just going to be like or do I want to be sincere or what do I? How sincere am I as a person? I don't know. So it was a lot. It's not just about weddings, but like anything. So, and then. I think definitely weddings push those sort of feelings right to the fore because that's

the ultimate like, this is me now. It's like a wedding is literally saying, do you want to come and look in my head? Yeah. Do you want to come in and see all the things I think are the best? Yes. And so it's a lot to be like, people be like, oh, Stevie thinks this is the best, is it? Yeah. So that's what she wants to look like and that's what she wants to do.

Yeah. You know, so it's a lot of being like, wait, what do I want. and what do my parents want and what does my partner want and what do I think the guests want or what do I actually want? Yeah, quietly in my head. Before we get into it, shall we do, which is a rolling theme each week,

we ask what the other's adult thing is to make us feel better about our lives. I have a notes app called Nobody Panic and I love to open it and think, what are the adult things? And then see what I've written to myself. That's so great. The past couple of weeks of little treats.

And this one I was very excited to write down. It involves the printer. Okay, wow. Now normally I have a quite positive working relationship with my printer. That's very rare. It is rare. It is rare. And we've worked very hard on it.

And I'm also involved with HSP, H-S-B-C. I'm heavily involved with HSBC. Unrelated. I'm also involved with HP Instant Ink. And they send me the bits, the cartridges. Why not? Sorry, are you telling me that you buy cartridges for your printer? No, I'm involved in some kind of thing.

Yeah. Right. Evolved in some kind of thing. It's like you've gone to a shop and bought some... No, they come in the post. That's great. That is cool. I didn't know.

And they take my money. So you use your printer enough to necessitate a subscription. No? Right. Definitely not. You've got to be backed up with like a million printer cartridges. Yes. Okay, just checking.

So I've got like one... I pay one pound a month or something. Is it? Yeah. That's such good value. Well, that's why I thought it was quite a good deal. But now I'm like, am I getting the right use out of this? Yeah.

Anyway. Anyway, my point is, even though I know there are so many printer cartridges in the house somewhere, couldn't find one. Things, and I'm like, this is a nightmare because it's printing, it's coming out all faded. I have to print all these documents and you can't read them. And I was like, where the hell are the printer cartridges? Because I know I've got them and be damned me going to buy some more when I'm involved in this bloody subscription and have been for months. Anyway, I couldn't find them anywhere. Had to contact HB instanting for help and was like, I don't know what to do.

It's doing this. Can you find my cartridges from my house? out, please. What shall I do now? And then the man on the chat said, and this is what I tell to you, Stevie, and to you the listeners, should you ever find yourself in such a situation,

remove the, because you've got a colour cartridge and a black cartridge in there. He said, remove the black ink cartridge and then print in black and white and the colour one will correct itself and will print, will combine its colours to do the black and white for you.

Almost begs the question, what's the point of a black cartridge? Almost begs it, Steve. almost begs. That's absolutely. Well, to be fair, it is the darkest, darkest, darkest shade of magenta. Okay. If you truly looked.

But to the naked eye, you wouldn't question it. But if you really look, it is a very, it's not true black. So I guess if you really need it to be, you know. Spot on. Yeah. For your art. For your art. For your art.

The only thing I can think of that you would print that you'd need black art. I was thinking, yeah, your graphic design work. Yeah, I guess. And then you're not messing about with your magenta. Why are you printing out at home? Come on. Have to self-respect, mate. Anyway, it felt absolutely fantastic.

It worked, and now I was just excited to relay that top tip. If anyone finds himself in such a situation. Such a good hat. My other thing is, I'm doing my theory test on Friday. Oh, it's Friday. Yes. Yes, yes. Yes.

And a surprise, it was a surprise to me, but I think it's a surprise to nobody, and it shouldn't have been a surprise, is that the multiple choice, learning the facts, and then doing the test, like the mock tests, smashing it. Has a perception absolutely disaster. But weirdly, turns out that I keep failing it because I see, so it's like a video for anyone who hasn't done it, it's like quite a well-rended video, I presume AI,

where like you're going through something and you have to click when you see, there's lots of different sort of cars moving and things that could become hazards, but you have to click when you see the hazard develop. And so like, for example, you're going on like, I don't know, a road, and right in the distance, you see like a tractor on another... So I'm obviously clicking it being like, well, that tractor, why would they put a tractor in this video if it's not going to become a hazard? And then lo and behold, it does, but I've clicked too early

because it wasn't a hazard at that point. Unacceptable clicking pattern. Yes. And so it turns out actually, yeah, I'm too perceptive of the hazards. I think it's a very, very flawed test as somebody who also failed their hazard perception. Right. Good. Right. Because, yeah. It's so, because you're like, well, that's a hazard.

Yeah, obviously. Click, hazard. There's like a horse coming up in the road. And so I click, and then they're like, you got naught out of five because the horse didn't become a problem till like five seconds later. And you're like, but I'm doing a hazard perception test. Why would you put a horse in it if it wasn't going to become a hazard? I'm overthinking it.

Yeah, I'm quite concerned about that. But I am thrilled that my, because I used to be quite like academic at school, like good at exams and that sort of. I'm quite, and I was so scared about doing the theory prep because I was like, what if I find out that I'm no longer good at that? My brain is broken because, I don't know, social media usage. But it turns out, I can remember facts very well. Yeah, I'm very good.

that bit. But I'm so bad at hazard perception that I think that's going to fuck me over. Listen, you join a stalwart group of people who can't perceive hazards. Who simply can't perceive the hazards. No, who failed their hazard perception the first time. Okay, good. Should you fail? So just take that sweet pressure off. Anyway, I wish you so much good luck. Thank you. What do you want to pass my theory days? That's a great one. That's a great one. But also, that is part of it, because I, for years, have been like, I don't want to learn to drive, it's bad for the environment, blah, blah, blah, blah, I don't want it. And actually realized that me not wanting to learn to drive was because I didn't want to find out I was bad at it,

because I couldn't, I was like, I won't be able to cope. But so that led me to the fundamental issue with knowing what you want, which is not, realizing that you don't know what you want and feeling stupid for that, because actually I think our brains are so complex that you often don't know what you want and that's I think state the standard for everybody and you have to kind of interrogate yourself constantly and that's exhausting so you know like the people that when we're at uni and throughout our 20s and I was like God you know Ed I've made someone up like Ed he did English with me and now he's done a law conversion because he wants to be a lawyer

and now he's got a flat and now he's got a family he really knows what he wants. And then now at like 35, Ed's gone mad because he's like, I don't know if that was what I wanted. And then like doesn't know what he's doing as having a midlife crisis, for example. That happens quite a lot where you get to a certain age and you go, gosh, if I done the wrong thing here or like I've dropped the ball because I didn't realize that I wanted these big life things.

And I think there's a tendency. I don't think that's the right approach for Ed because actually all that's happened is, he did want that at some point and now he wants something different and we're constantly I think we're constantly changing what we want and then punishing ourselves for it and being like oh god I didn't know or like what's wrong with me when actually you basically need to check in regularly and it can change throughout the year it can change because you've like spoken to a friend who's like doing a job that you've never heard of and gone like you know what actually maybe I would like to do that as a career well that oh I've only unknown that or like I'm stuck in this

or whatever. And that plus the inherent fear of change means that yeah, we should never be mean to ourselves for not knowing what we want. So if you're listening and you're like, I'm listening because I just don't know and I'm such an idiot. It's like you're not an idiot. You're actually, that's what it means to be human to not know what you want. Otherwise we'd all be like

we'd all just be completely content at all times and famously we're not ever. Famously. Famously. I hear you. Do you? I hear it. And to speak on that. I would love you to speak on that. I remember picking our GCSE season year nine.

Hell. Hell. And I went home and cried. Because Emily Reynolds, full name. Hello, Emily. Hope you're well. Hope you're well Nourdes. And that is what we used to say.

Sorry, also like, you're about to say something like, probably quite like, I can't stop myself for these absolute golden gags. Emily. New she wanted to be a doctor, which meant these were the GCS she needed to do. These were the A level she needed to do. This is where she wanted to go to a degree. This is where she wanted to go to medical school. And I cried with jealousy that she had a plan. Oh my God, yeah. Because there was something so nice about knowing this was your end goal. And then if we were in order to get it, all the small decisions that you were going to be

faced with through your life, small, as in like the incremental decisions, were going to be towards this end goal. And I was so jealous of that because I just felt completely overwhelmed. with the choice and I do remember everyone having a bit of a meltdown about it. You're 13. Yeah. I remember there was a girl, we used to ride, I lived very far away from school and there was a bus. Luxie cars, as I'm saying it out loud, that can't be right.

Can be there even if you school boss, Luxemars. It's so weird to say it. It was like blue and white and it was so, it was like a really battered minivan. And I guess like to sort of shrewd it up, they'd call it Luxie cars. You know, and you not said a word out loud just so long, but it was such a big part of your life. for many years. Anyway, we used to ride this bus home for an hour each way. And so we were very weirdly, intimately good friends with people from year 7 to year 13 on this bus. That's not weird. I mean, you've got two hours every day. But it was weird that you would go to

school, you wouldn't dream of speaking to them. Of course. But then you'd get on. And I remember in year seven, helping this girl who was at the time in year 10 or year nine, choose her, choose her, she's CSEs. And I remember like helping her and like crossing off things. We couldn't definitely let's remove those and let's do this and like helping her. That's very good of you. You were 11 at this point. Yeah, 11. Mad thing for me to have done. Very good.

And her being like, that's actually incredibly helpful. And then the like next day and break, them coming like, like this huge girls coming to find me in year 7 and be like, you get in the corridor. We've heard you're very good at helping with the choosing process. And me being like, okay, yeah, this is this. And then you do this. And then when actually it got to our year,

I remember being like, it's so, it's so, this is so hard. There was no you in year 7. There was no me. Helping you to. There was no me to help me. couldn't help yourself. I couldn't help myself. And it's such a, it feels like it's the first time ever in your life that you're made to choose something and as a result, doors are going to close, you know? Yeah. Or you, the perception is that the per se doors are going to close. Wow, wow,

wow. Speak on that. Yeah, I will. Um, no, but I think it, like, teachers can't tell you the reality, because if they told you the reality, then the entire foundation of the education system would collapse, which is like, if they were like, he doesn't matter. matter what you pick because you can change in the future because you've got your whole life including you know you could you could do the complete you could do all sciences and then like be like I want to do English at uni and then like rectify that very simply but like if they tell you that then you start being like well what's the point of anything yeah everything about school is sort of when as the older you get the more you realize it's quite counterproductive

to living and that the actual reality of life in some senses it is helpful being quite a cynical way because it's like with work and employment in life those odd rules and unfair systems are still in place so I suppose school does help you to realize that like I know life is sort of mad and sometimes you have to go along with stuff that you're like what yeah like why am I doing this interview process for the job that's not going to you can't tell if I'm actually going to be good at this job or like it's kind of like life is unfair really basically but like yeah I think it's the thing to speak on the hazard perception. Speak on it.

Speak on that. Is that like, that's the best that they've come up with under difficult circumstances. That is a safe way of trying to test you on something that is sort of untestable. And it like, it is mad, but it's also the currently the best we've got. And so you've got to go into it both being like, this seems odd. And everyone like, it is. But this is what you have to do in order to be allowed into the car. So do it?

Yeah, there has to be something that tests you. And people did say that, but you don't listen. People have said that my whole life and I didn't listen. Like when I decided on my degree, I didn't. I was like, well, I've committed now. And unless I do a law conversion, like English literature was like a joke while I was doing it. Like, ha ha, you never get employed. And it was like, ha, ha.

And then, like, when I was a journalist, it was like, you know, like, I've picked journalism over acting and writing and performing. Like, that I've picked it. And I remember being, like, very, like, somber, like, this is the way. Like, I must earn. And then, of course, that industry collapsed. And I was like, the way is gone. And it just so happens I'm doing this in my spare time, so I've got to make this work now. But then it was only now that I'm like, I could retrain and do something, but I don't want to.

So that's kind of like quite not. I mean, also I'd probably be bad at it. But like, hey, hey, hey, I could change my career at any point. I would be bad because I wouldn't like it, do I mean. Well, yeah, but that's a different thing. That's a different thing. That's a different thing. And I do only realise that now.

But also, yeah, it's quite freeing to be like to realize that you're not like, it wasn't our fault constantly not knowing what we wanted and being panicked about those choices. then there's a different pressure which is like that fear of change I think kicks well it has kicked in for me a little bit where it's like I've no people who my my sister who's like moved to another country and she kind of I was really jealous of that in in the sense of like God you you know that you want to leave London and you're not chained to it because you feel scared of what would happen you're just going to do that are you okay wow I wish I could have that expect but of course I can but like I don't know if I want it or not and so I'm like I'm constantly in this state of flux

and recently I've found it helpful to rather than address all of those big things which is like you know baby house where I live what clothes I'm wearing no those three big things which are all kind of looming for a lot of people who haven't made that decision yet or those decisions yet I found that by looking at those, I've realised that even small things, I didn't know what I wanted to. Starting with the small things, which gives me confidence to then build up to trust myself, to go like,

both could be wrong, but equally, both will also be right because you will make your life around that decision that you took. There actually is no wrong decision. So, like, if I live in London for the rest of my life, well, I'll make that work.

If I move out of London and live somewhere where I feel like I'm kind of alone with, like without any friends, well, I'll make that work as well, you know so and I think it's so much of it comes down to confidence in yourself and I found it really helpful with little things and also quite scary because when I was like okay I'll start with like little things like I don't actually know what like anything like I don't know how like with the autumn thing it came from that where I was like I love autumn and I love like Halloween and I was like

keep it I was embarrassed to like lean into it and I'm sort of embarrassed to be that kind of like typical, you know, white girl who's like, I love him and someone's my slatine. I was like, no, I'm actually going to go mad. Yeah. And it's such a small thing, but it helps. But I did find, like you just said, ticking off things that you don't want to be like the first helpful step.

And also like really leaning in and not being scared of visualising the options. So a big example is me with like where I want to live and my house. Because I don't, I run. And like, I'm so scared. of dreaming of a flat that I want because what if I can't afford or I can't get it? So what I've done is like I've got a phone note of like dream house ideas and being like not afraid

to actually vocalise that to myself because obviously is really simple but like I could get a flat that doesn't have any of those things and then that could be like an end goal but maybe I get like three of those things or like maybe I'm able to, it's always good to have an aim but I'm yeah I'm so often scared of dreaming

of those big things in case I'm disappointed. What is the worry about the disappointment, like that you would rather not dream of any nice things, lest you, less, that's quite extreme, but sort of, I'd rather be realistic, the fear of, yeah, of, yeah, of, what I would prefer to do is have a realistic goal so that then I can actually achieve that. Whereas, you know, being like, I want a garden and I also want a, a lovely balcony and a kind of underfloor heating for the tortoise.

And I wanted to be massive and also in central London. It's obviously not a realistic goal. So I can never achieve that. So I don't want to just like be needlessly disappointed. But wouldn't you say that like, so here's the realistic thing that's like, this is what is achievable regardless. And here are the dreams. And so if you dream that this like, then you just enjoy this sort of this dreaming process.

But you have to end up here anyway. So you might as well dream about a nicer thing. That's where I'm trying to get my head. But you fear this drop down is worse, you think, than just going up to it and never... Well, no, that's why I'm trying to change my... Oh, wonderful. I've got the phone notes. Wow, wow, wow.

With things like, I'm just like, I'm just like... I'm just like... I'm too scared to put a region because I'm like, obviously like, you know, central... Put it in. Put it in right now. Yeah, no, sure. But I also... Yeah, but sure.

Sure. But I also, I've done it. I'm too scared to like research areas because I'm like, what if I don't find anywhere? And then I'll be like, oh no, there's no one to live. I'm going very specific here. No, but I think it's really interesting and important. And I guess it's all the thoughts of high risk, high yield of being like, I'm not even prepared to chance it in case it doesn't happen.

But it's definitely not going to happen if you don't. Absolutely. If you don't look. And so you currently think you won't be able to. You look, that feeling is confirmed. And it's like, is that a worse feeling than just guessing the feeling would be that? So, yeah. So when the balance tips over, then that's when that's where the phone notes.

comes in handy like right I've got to lean in because the annoyance of being like I don't know what I want because I'm not allowing myself to really engage in what I want. Obviously it's a really like self-aware way of trying to figure out what you want. But I do think the more common thing is sort of doing things because you think you should want them. So the wedding and marriage and all of that stuff, that was a good example I think of personally spending my entire 20s being like, I don't know, it's a stupid institution and I'm not. No, I'm never doing that. And then being like, I'd quite like to have got one life.

And then all of the elements of how we did it and how we're doing it, being exactly what we want and not even considering, not considering other people to the extent where oddly it means that what we want is to consider other people. So it would genuinely make me unhappy. I love going to weddings. It was very, very clear. but it would make, I wouldn't be able to cope with telling people to, for example, go somewhere else and spend money on travel. I'd spend the whole wedding being like, I'm so sorry.

And like, no one wants to see that. So it was actually like counterproductive and more useful for me to like have a chill party in like Soho. So that everybody, I don't have to be sweaty when people arrive. Absolutely. And because no one wants a sweaty woman at the wedding. No, sweaty brides. No sweaty brides. I think we should run a wedding.

planning company called No Sweaty Brides. No Sweaty Brides, yeah, yeah, NSB. I think, like you say, the wedding thing puts everything in quite harsh really, because it's like, it comes down to what do you want, make decisions, and like make financial decisions, pick things. And that is hard. And so I kind of used that as an experiment, really, to be like, okay, I'm quite bad at knowing what I want. I change my mind. And also, I think I want something. And then it actually turns out, I want this secretly. There's no tips in this episode at all at this point. But I think one big tip is, pick something and as an experiment be like, I'm going to do exactly what I want. And you realize that your brain kind of works in like a different way.

And then you can kind of extrapolate that out to other bigger things. And you might be quite surprised by what you learn about yourself. Yeah. And I think you speak to a very human and universal experience of the like, I would rather not check these things or try for these dreams or be real, say the truth about my dreams less they don't work. And I know what I bring off, check off and all. Tolstoy constantly.

You do bring off, Chekhov. But do you say bring off? Yeah. It sort of sounds like you wank him off. Bring him off. He's done. Get him off the stage. In the Cherry Orchard

and or Uncle Vanya. Could be by Tolstoy and or Chekhov. There is a character. So like the broadstroes. Played by Andrew Scott or not. Or not. Or me.

Andrew's got or not. Listen, the macro, no idea. But the micro. Very clear. The young, dowdy girl is in love with, I don't think she's that young. I think she's approaching 30, am I right? Ancient. Ha, ha, ha.

In love with the doctor. Sure. Emily Reynolds. Emily Reynolds. Of course. No, in love with the doctor. And then this sort of hot, older woman comes to town. And she's like, you're in love with the doctor?

And she's like, no, I'm not. And she's like, yes, you are. Just fucking ask him if he's in love with you. And she says, in Russian, of course, something to the tune of, I can't. I would rather, I can't out bear the reality. It's easier to live here, dreaming and hoping and living in my reality, even though I know he doesn't love me, but never knowing for sure, than it is to be on the other side, knowing for certain it's a no.

And even if the risk, even if there's a tiny chance that he might also love me, I cannot take the risk of this is a safer place to be. And I think so many people live there, you know, they, you know, they in marriages that aren't serving them anymore in jobs aren't serving them in all of those sort of things it's safer here you know people who are like oh i can't be single you know i can't bear it out there even though there's a chance that there's an amazing great love or all these incredible things you experience on your own better to stay here in this like bad but safe space so i think everybody stays there i think i'm on the polar opposite um you know you know what you want too much i don't want too much and too hard no i just don't feel uh anything that's nothing in there i think part of the crying about the doctor's thing and then I cried several years ago to party, ran into a friend who was maybe six months pregnant and I did not know. And she obviously was taking it in her stride because she'd had six months to be ready to those things. And so she was just like, yeah. Whereas it was my first, I was like, oh, and I was like, why aren't you more shocked? And she's like, well, I've been pregnant

for six months, so, you know, not a surprise anymore. And then I cried on the way home and my housema had to be like, should we unpack? Why are you crying? and is it because you want a baby or you don't want a baby and it's the same thing about crying when I was 14 about being like, I was so jealous that somebody was confident with what they wanted to do with their life. Right, yes. There's so many options for you.

There's so many options and it's not that I have any secret dreams and I don't say them. I actually, there's just nothing in there. No, I would argue too much. So all of the options feel like, well, that's an option, that's an option, that's an option. Rather than there's nothing in there and you're like, I don't want to do anything.

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. You want to do everything. Yeah. But also I think I am just, So, you know, if people are like, what do you want, I'm like, snack and fun times. Fun times and could go on holiday. Whereas I've never had a like, when people are like, I want to be a doctor. I want to win an Oscar.

I want to do this. Like I'm always like, it's nice. Could be. Yeah. And so I've struggled very much with that. And I think also the very nature of like storytelling and therefore all the films and books and everything that we consume, the nature of a character is that they have to want something. If they have one true goal.

They have to have a true goal. Because if you ever watch a film where the character doesn't really want it and then, you're like, what the hell is this? Boring. I've watched this for an hour and a half. Like, story is completely opposite to real life. In that story has to, we have to propel forward. We have to want something. And ideally, we have to want something.

And on the way there, find out that we needed something quite different. Blah, blah, blah. For this to be like, for us, our little human minds to enjoy a story, like these are all the steps. And that's so polar opposite to what life is. That's probably why we enjoy and need stories because we feel so scattershot. Yes. That actually that we,

that pattern of just, we just feel like, oh God, like, also as well I read about how like, with story, we're often like, when you enjoy a story,

it's often because on a subconscious level, you're trying to work out how better to live yourself. So even if that's got, you've got nothing to do with it, that makes sense of like, you're just being like, what's the secret to just having,

like, what does it feel like to have one aim? Like, how can I, how does that feel to be, so driven. It's why I sometimes think like, God, revenge sounds good. Like, people are going like, one, you know, that made Martin joke of like, I really want to be able to avenge my dead father. Like, yeah, I didn't know that.

It was ages ago with one of, one of their first stand-up shows. I mean, like, I'm really jealous of Harry Potter with his dead parents. Like, because I want to just have one goal. Oh, that's so funny. See, it's so human. We want this one pure goal. We want to, you know, Inigo Montoya, Princess Bride. You killed my father, prepared to die. You know, we're like, and then when, At the end, he's like, I have been in the revenge business so long, I don't want to do with myself, you know?

Yeah. We want to wake up every day and be like, I have to kill the Baron, you know? But actually, we'd probably be quite dull. If you only had one aim and like that would, you would live a very, I don't know, a very singular blinkered existence. And yes, but that's the thing. Maybe we crave this singular blinkered free existence where it's like, today I kill the Baron. Because we are so blinky in our lives. Yeah.

And it's like that's why all the good, you know, we need a quest, we need a quest, we need a thing. We feel better when we're like, okay, this is what I'm doing today. I love a quest. You know, just like take all this away and it's like, just like, just like focus down. It's why I'm bringing a lot about like ADHD and how we're quite good in a crisis is because it's the only time when it's like, quest, quill. Quill, what? See, I'm so excited about crisis. You're still like chicken. There's one coming. It's like, it all goes away. It's like, we're doing this. Just being like, I have to get this ring in that volcano.

Perfect. Come on, let's go. Maybe a couple of little japs along the way, but ultimately, this is what we're doing. Yeah. It's a relatable example. You know, it's like, we're like, great, that seems, that seems nice. Yeah. Like, Frodo's crying the whole time.

It's like, so stressful. Well, that's the thing we wouldn't actually enjoy doing it. I guess we just crave it because we're so overwhelmed. Yes. And we're also overwhelmed by all those, in all those things as well, the person often, it's simply thrust upon them. Like, they, you know, somebody does this to their father and off they go or someone arrives and is like you're the ring bearer you know you're this you're and arguably with that example

like yeah they don't actually that's not really what they want no something they have they have to do which is maybe slightly different the aim isn't trying to figure out your one true goal and i think that's how we see it because stories are like that the aim is to be like i don't have one true goal i have many goals and many things and the goal that i had when i was like a child like my dream job or where i want to be changes because you made that decision when you were six and you didn't know what the world was like. And so that you wouldn't go to a child now and be like, can you give me some life advice?

You'd be like, they just know what the fuck is talking about. So it's odd that we hold on to these things, even like three years ago, that change. And I think you'll have to, so basically our aim should be to constantly like check in with ourselves

and learn how to check in with ourselves about what we want. And in doing that, realize it's a much more, if you give it the respect, it deserves it's a much more psychologically complex thing to do, rather than going, I want this, fine.

interrogating it is really hard. Looking at your own sort of inability to admit what you want because you're frightened of it. A frightened of it makes you kind of feel weak but you're not weak. So that is something that you shouldn't be scared of. Look yourself in your own face, essentially. How to look yourself in your own face. That's what this is called.

Something I return to quite often and I encourage you all to... Is it Chekhov slash Tolstoy, slash Andrew Scott in an interview? It's Andrew Scott, yeah. No, it's Tim Minutes. Mention this time. Oh yeah. I think I've told you it before. He's doing an address at either his old university or simply a university.

He's wearing a gown. Okay. Would you forgive me doing an impression of Tim Minchin? I think that's fine. Okay. Well, let's hear it first. I think he does like 10 rules for life. And he says, number one, you don't have to have a dream.

Americans on talent shows. It's funny because the act is like totally pointless. But like, I do appreciate it. And doesn't it set the scene a bit, Tim Minchin? Number one, you don't have to, I'm only doing this one, you don't have to, everybody cares, right, number one, you don't have to have a dream. Americans on talent shows always talk about their dreams. Fine. If you have something that you've always dreamed of in your heart, go for it. After all, it's something to do with your time. Chase a dream, why not? And if it's a big enough one, it'll take you most of your life to achieve. So by the time you get to it and you're staring into the abyss of the meaningless of your achievement, you'll be almost dead, so it won't matter. I've never really had. one of these big dreams and so I advocate instead for the passionate dedication to the pursuit of of short-term goals. Be micro-ambitious. Put your head down and work with pride on whatever is in

front of you. You never know where you might end up. Just be aware that the next worthy pursuit will probably appear in your periphery while you're looking the other way, which is why you should be careful of long-term dreams. If you focus too far in front of you, you won't see the shiny thing out of the corner of your eye, right? Good advice. Metaphor. Look at me go. That seems like it was a call back to an earlier work. Yes, yes, yes. But I really, that's great. The passionate dedication and pursuit of short-term goals. Short-term goals. That's so good. And then it's just like, okay, what do we want, what do I want to achieve? What do I want now? What do I like to do this week? Yeah. How would I like to spend, am I still happy in this? Would I like that? Yeah, absolutely.

That's a great way to end because that is like basically everything we've been saying. I mean, to be honest, we could have just started the record, played that, played that, played that. And then just stopped. And that got great. But no, I'm like that. But no. I think we're... That's excellent. It's important to hear us talk about. It's so important for the listeners to hear us talk about.

Also, I think it's exciting for us to be on your journey with you. Thank you. On the way to Mount Doom, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm going there. You go in there. I'll come with you. I actually watch the...

Why not? It's a quest, isn't it? It's a quest, is it? We actually was actually re-watching Lord of the Rings's Fellowship of the Ring last night. Wow. And that's all I have to say about that. And that's that. And that's that.

Well, goodbye. Goodbye, everyone. Goodbye. Good luck with your short-term goals. Short-term goals. Yeah, have a short-term goal today and see if you can achieve it. Ask yourself, what do I actually want? Don't tell anyone. See if you can do it by the end of the day.

Wow. Great.