Nobody Panic - How to Meet Your In-Laws

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

It's a minefield trying to navigate the politics, drama and fragile emotions of joining a new family. Your partner is their baby! And now what? You want to snog their baby?! How DARE you. You are not alone if you are finding having in-laws a surprising challenge. Stevie and Tessa deep dive to the murky depths of in-law relations and swim back up with some advice. Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded by Aniya Das and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Nobody panic coming to you live. But crucially, not live.

But in many ways, not live. In the way it matters, but not life. In the legal and normal way, not live. We're a podcast. We tell you how to tell you, discuss how to do things. We don't tell you anything. Have a little chat, get some expert advice in. Sometimes. Sometimes. Sometimes not.

Talk through our opinions. Yeah, that's it, really. I'm Stevie. I'm Tessa. And today's episode is a listener's suggestion that we've had, several times and not, not done. I think because we were sort of gearing up. It's not a big one.

Well, I know why, because you haven't soft launch your partner yet. Oh, yeah. The shadow doesn't, my partner doesn't have any in-laws, and I don't have anything to say. But I do have a bit to say, actually. And now you've soft launch, now you can discuss the concept of in-laws. Indeed, indeed. Not his specifically, just the concept.

I have a partner, and therefore I have some in-laws, and I have got some thoughts. Great. But I think it's a big topic. and a thorny one. I think it's very thorny. Because it also, because there's a reason why the mother-in-law joke

is the most cliched joke ever. I mean, it's also because it's sexist, because it's not a father-in-law joke, but there should be father-in-law jokes. Yeah, but that's the thing about a cliche is like it's steeped in an enormous amount of truth. Unfortunately, every single X I have their mother's

interesting towards me. Yeah, and I think it is a big... And the dad was fine. Yeah, and the dad was fine. And so we don't make father-in-law jokes in quite the same way. And that's science. And that's science. I mean, that's science. That's three people.

So I think we can say for the same. That's science, baby. It's 100% of your test group. So that's science. Was it a written suggestion? Yes, it was a suggestion. I will not say the name in case, well, because it's a personal topic. Yasified for anonymity.

Yes. Very strange to the point. A question I'd love you to cover. is how to deal with your in-laws, whether or not you're married. I suppose manage the relationship might be better phrasing than deal with, but the latter feels more accurate. Sucinct, but says a lot. And doesn't give any personal experience.

No, none. But I think we can safely say there is some. I think she's got in-laws, otherwise that would be an absolutely wild suggestion today. So, before we get into it, she'll do our most adult things we've done this week, and then we can just like, then we're just plain sailing from that. And then we're sailing through.

Yeah. Because we're already tense, thinking about it all. Yeah, I'm getting quite tense. My neck feels tense. I don't know if that's the thing to live in. It's just a lot, isn't it? Right. My adult thing is I have organized the fridge. That's actually huge.

Huge. Huge. How have you done it? Because I don't know about what your household is like, but I have a way I like to organize it, which is by food stuff. So it's like all of the dairy or whatever there, all the meats there. My partner sort of went through a very strange phase of just doing it of like what's your like that's your that's your shelf it's like but we've got so many communal things like

who's is the mayonnaise yeah that's because i'm vegan but like sometimes we'd have the veganase which he also likes well so what are we going to like chop it into is what i said to him to make a great point a fine point and he enjoyed that yeah so we sort of go back and forth with it in terms of how we do it and it's very boring and annoying it is very boring annoying and i then have what i think is that luckily his way was not a structure simply that's some space, so I put it in it. Great. And then a few times I've said, could we, could we do my structure?

Which is? Jars upside down. Jars upside down. Crisps. So there's like a vegetable drawer at the bottom. A crisper. A crisper. I, one of the ADHD books was like, don't use your vegetable draw.

I'm going to say one of the ADHD books was in the drawer. In the drawer. It might as well have been, yeah. But it was like, don't use that. You'll think, oh, the vegetable draw. And then you'll close that and you'll never see any of those things ever again. So they were like put in the drawer condiments. Oh my God, that's a good idea.

Yeah. So like the stuff that's like, there you go. There's all your jars, all your bits, condiments. I can't wait for the argument tonight when I go home and all this mayonnaise is in the crisper. Meadowes in the crisper. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.

I'm in the fridge. Sorry. You can, yeah. So then I've gone condiments in the crisper. Yeah. Then I've done a one called leftovers slash open. This is what I mean. Yeah.

Because then you see the thing that you need to use up. Yeah, so then they will... For example, he likes to... I would just cook all the beans, but he thinks you cook half the beans, then you leave a tin of beans in there, which I... I was talking baked beans?

Yeah. One kind of baked beans is a portion, I'm afraid. I'm afraid. I'm afraid. But also, you'll never use that second beans. Because you want, once you want beans again. Not for another fortnight. At best.

At best. At best. And what are you going to eat, those half of beans, are you? No. So therefore I won't put all those things on the leftover as an open section, just be like, there's a number of half beans in here.

Just so you know, start eating more beans, made. Can you see? It's literally that much more beans. Just eat the beans. Eat those. Eat those. Or just throw them away. People that all buy the little cans that are one portion.

Exactly. So I was hoping by showing him that. But once I did line up all his sun cream to show him how much sun cream he bought and didn't say why I'd done it and thought he would just enchew from that. Like, you're right, I do buy too much sun cream. What he in chewed was, God, I love sun cream. I should buy more sun cream. Right.

So I should probably say rather than passive aggressive doing it. Anyway, condiments. left over slash open meat and fish fruit and vegetables at the top no we've got one more to go oh you've got a big fridge

that's why I can't I've only got three drawers three three levels I think they all got CRISPR one two three sadly that's good yeah I've got four

yeah huge clang from me yeah massive clang clong clong clong I've got four drawers four shelves and then top fridge yogurt butter

I was going to say I'm beer yogurt butter beer. Where are your eggs going? In the door. In the door? Yeah. In a special little plastic egg holder.

Ah, fuck. Come on. In the door. What else goes in the door? Other little doors. Dines. Darts. Oh yeah, of course.

Like milk. Milk and then beer. There's a lot of beer going on in your house. Neither of us drink beer. And beer. Top shop, beer. Beer everywhere. Dairy milk and yogurt on the top of it.

Yeah, that's great. Anyway, I've, I've, I've sold several times this is the order and then I keep doing it and then he just keeps putting things at will. Then I found a sticker maker. I also bought one of these. Yeah, little label things. Yeah. Yeah.

It was fantastic. So you're putting it on the front of each drawer. Sorry, the front of each shelf so you can see. Yeah. So I organised the fridge. Then I put the labels on. And then you can simply point to the label and look at him. I would never.

I would never. But I have played the ADHD card of being like, this is from the book. And it does say we have to do this in the book. And we are both quite respectful of the book. luckily the book is imaginary. So I can just say, this is from the book. It was in the book. It was legitimately in the book.

But I am able to be like, this is a thing. It did suggest this. Please could you do this to help me? Anyway, but I found a label maker and I organised the fridge. Who at my, Martha Stewart? That's so good. Mine is I've just got a place for my sunglasses now. So I don't go wearing my sunglasses.

Where is the place? Listen, if you say it with enthusiasm, it's just as exciting as organising. I've got a place for my sunglasses. Yay, where is it? So, my sister's husband now made this lovely sort of like shelving unit out of essentially, I don't know what it is, it's like a bit of old, it's like an upcycle from something else. And so it's like two little sort of shelves, sort of like an old crate, but not...

I think it's a palette. Yes. Okay. Palate, yeah, but I haven't seen it, but the way that Stevie was trying to make the shapes, I feel like it's that. It was like half a part. It was something else, but what? But what? And we'll never know.

Yeah. It's like half a palette And he's like stained in It's beautiful It's got little hooks at the top Yeah The keys And there is

The shelf at the top That we put like fun things on And then there's like a divot Sort of like a There's like another shelf But it kind of goes in It's not flat Almost because it's a palette

Almost imagine if it was a palette Yeah That Yeah And it's always been like What do we put in the divot Like you can't put anything in there I tried some ornaments

But you couldn't see them Of course Sunglasses So now Just having a rummage around Sunglasses Take them out Perfect

Almost like a balcony, a little thing. A little balcony for sunglasses. Yeah. But it's, you can't. A sunglasses balcony. Perfect. And you can look over it. You can look over, but you can't look in.

There's no point in show pieces there. You can't put show pieces. You're peering in, are you? Enjoy your show pieces. No. No, no, no. Perfect place for the sunglasses. So I really thrilled about that.

Oh my God. Every place a home. Contain, maintain. Wow. Because there's no point putting them somewhere if you don't think that's a natural place for them. When you're like, this is their home. This book is really doing some good for you. Yeah.

Edit? categorize, contain, maintain. I love the book. Living. Right, okay. Okay. That's such a good one. Thank you. Please send a picture of the palate. You know what? I will.

He makes other things as well. He upcycles loads of things. He's very clever. Okay. What a talent. What a talent? I forgot what. I'll tell you who's not talented. Who?

Your mother-in-law. No, mother-in-laws. She's died, of course. That's fine. So I don't have in-laws because they both passed away, which is very sad. I met his mother, but she had dementia. So I didn't... That's tough.

So, yes, I did meet his mother, but I didn't meet his mother in the sense of... Not the person she was. No. So, yeah, don't have much experience in that sense. My first experience of mother-in-laws is in the Flintstones movie. Oh, yeah. Peggy. Is the name Peggy?

I've just sort of name. I think she's played by Joan Collins. Is that somebody? I honestly don't know. Or Jackie Collins. Or if she's not... She's a dark... Is she... Incredibly...

Barney Rubble's wife? The fit was. Wilma's, Wilma's Fred's, isn't he? Wilma and Fred and Barney and... See, I want to say Peggy, but I've got that wrong. Peggy. Barney and Waffles. Barney and Robbie.

Robbie. It's Betty or something like that. Is it Fred's? Is it Fred? Betty, it is Betty. Okay, so that's Betty Rubble. Right, yes. And then Wilma, yeah, everybody clear.

Yeah. And then Wilma Rubble. Wilma had the red hair and the white dress. So Wilma's mother in the actual live action movie with John Goodman. Thank God. Thank God you're here. Him.

I thought he was like, thank God he was in the Flintstone. God. What would have happened if it was someone else? Well, thank God. But who else could possibly have played? He is Fred Flintstone. He is Fred Flintstone. Yeah, when we saw the trailer, it was like, oh God.

Yeah. I think he probably stands up as a movie, not seen it in a long time. I don't think it did at the time. Oh, really? I think everyone was like, incredible casting. Yeah. Not a good film. listen, I put my hands above my head.

But what happens in it at some point is that Wilma's mother shows up, who of course is your classic mother-in-law. What a small house. Oh, Fred does this. Like, oh, you have to go to work every day, belittling. Why aren't you keeping my daughter? But, you know, anyway, that I sort of grasped as a concept. But then later in the movie, he has to think his way through.

The children are like on some kind of rock machine, like hurtling towards certain death. And he says to himself, like, think, Fred, think. And then like a little think bubble comes up. And it's his mother being eaten by a dinosaur. And he like sort of laughs. And then he's like, no, think properly. And he like thinks of a plan.

His mother-in-law. His mother-in-law is being eaten by a dinosaur. I was like, Jesus Christ, it's like a Freudian thing going on. Yeah, no, sorry, sorry. Okay, sorry. Is his mother-in-law being eaten by dinosaur screaming for help? And I remember, turned to my dad and being like, what? Like, what's this?

Because my dad really laughed. And he was like, well, it's because everybody hates their mother-in-law. And I was like, who's your mother-in-law? and he was like grandma and I was like right because like six whatever and I was like okay a lot to unpack here so you hate grandma and I was like and who's mom's mother-in-law and he was like granny coats and I was like huh and so it was really like okay these people and I was like how can anyone not like grandma yeah she's grandma she's grandma and then the older you get like I just think the thing about the in-laws is this like horrible because you're like I won't be like that sort of person

I'll be someone who gets on with my in-laws I won't do all this and then you meet your in-laws and you're like this is completely universal. This is going to happen for everyone. I mean, surely not. I truly believe if you really, really get on. There'll be tension somewhere. The fundamental underlying issue of an in-law, which is that your beloved child is saying they are leaving home now to love somebody else will always be an issue. No matter how great you think that person is or that partner, like you'll always,

your parents-in-law will always, no matter how great they are nice to you and they must really, truly lovely, there will always be a resentment that. See, that's, because I sort of... So with my parents and my partner, there was not that in any way. But there is, for example, when we all went on like, we had to go on a family,

we had to go on a family holiday, we did have to, because my sister was getting married in Australia, and we were all together for like three and a half weeks, in quite small, tense settings. And the issue is just that you're dealing, well, from his side, my partner's side, is like, I could see that the tension comes from like,

well, they're not his parents, but they also are, they do have a status above me and my sister because they're our parents. So then trying to decide what to do and maybe like, there was, you know, there was one instance where like everyone was going to do this and he didn't want to do that. And it was like, and then I was going in between being like, that's all time.

but the shadow, like, is really close with my parents and, like, text them all the time, what's up all the time, like, it's kind of, like, friendly with them on, like, another level. And there's no element of, like, they're just so happy that I'm with someone who's nice. None of that tension, but the tension comes from just, like, if there is any, if, like, there's still a mum and a dad that want to do some stuff. Yeah. And the partner's like, well, I don't want to do that. The resentment, like, I'll rephrase the term resentment.

I don't think it's like, I don't like you as a person. it's like there's another, there's a cuckoo in the net. There's another, there's something else added to the family dynamic. We're a family. Yeah. And now there's a dynamic here which has shifted the balance in such a way because it's like, that's mom, that's dad, I'm the eldest and Gina's the youngest. And now there's an extra, there's another man.

Yeah, someone's coming. Someone's coming in and they're like, well, now what's the plan? Like, where does the power dynamic lie? Now we have to kind of like work that person into this. And parents and their children have, even if you have the best relationship in the whole world, there will always be tensions. You are literally looking at, you know, as they get older, as you get older, when you're younger, there's a different type of tension to when you're older,

there's a different type of tension. You're also looking at, like, what you might become. You're looking at, like, suddenly you're seeing them as people. There's so much going on, like, you can't tell me what to do on 35 sort of thing. Yeah. And there's a whole range of those things. And also, like, like, families that aren't together as well, there's multiple in-laws all over the place.

Like, it's a whole, like, thing. But there is this one very big cliche that I feel, I'm yet to see disproven, which is the mother and son dynamic be bad shit. Yes. So it is mother and son and it's heightened in mothers of only sons. Yeah. The woman in a heterosexual relationship, if your partner is a son of only sons, your chances of that being more tense than others is higher.

So only one boy and maybe they've got sisters or is the only child and it's a son, yeah. Whereas if there's like a bunch of boys, it might be different. The only son is the same because there's still no, it's only boys. Right, okay, of course, yeah. And then a bunch of boys. And that's their one precious boy. Right, yeah. So that's also going to be a nightmare.

So there is something about, and again, like, these are stereotypes and there'll be people listening being like, my mother-in-law is fantastic, but wonderful, absolutely wonderful. Except into the rule. It's a stereotype for a reason. And that's because, like, there's no daughters in the mix. So, like, they didn't, you know, so therefore they're-who-will-be-the-air. Who will be the air? You know, there's no daughters. So, like, they didn't, therefore, raise a teenage girl or, you know, have to do all that.

So they aren't like, yeah, yeah, I get it. I've been with a, as you are entering the fold, you're a similar behavior to X, Y, Z. I've done this part, you know, they only raise sons. And there is an aspect of like, but I'm the woman in this relationship. Oh, yeah. And now I have to relinquish that to somebody else. I have a friend who's diluted when there are, you've got sons and daughters. I have a friend who has one of five sons.

Okay. And when they, he's the second youngest, and when they would bring people, like when they sort of getting girls, they're all of like different ages, they've got quite a spread of ages, but it didn't matter. Whenever a girlfriend was brought back,

their mother was so vicious and wouldn't, like, wouldn't speak to the girlfriend. They wouldn't allow, like, at all. And it was so cartoonish in that sense. But that makes sense of like, but I'm the woman here. Right, okay. Well, I don't want to spend the whole episode

just like being like mother-in-lawful. be cray. But also, I think that is the, the crux of it is mother-in-laws be cray. Father-in-laws be cray. It is cray to have an in-law. Like, that is a cray. Yeah, it's a parent that you've not picked. Yeah. And you're not used to, our parent, you've not picked. As if we all picked, but we didn't pick, none of us have picked our parents. Sure, sure, sure. But like, it's a parent that you've not grown up with to understand. But you're being asked to fit into a parent dynamic. And it's not just like meeting when you meet your friend's parents, you similarly fit in, be like, I am on a par here, I fit in, you will parent me. Whereas when you meet an in-law,

you don't say, you will parent me now. You say, I wish to be spoken to adult to adult as a peer, as we're all, you know, it's a new dynamic that's not, I'm a child, you're asking to not be considered a child. And your partner of the parents is also asking to not be considered a child. Yes. It's such a huge dynamic, it's so much. And their relationship, so your relationship, is always so multi-layered, just like any relationship, but actually more so than many, than any other relationship. We've known them for the longest. You've got the longest history,

regardless of what that is, and then when you are then in another family dynamic, and you're watching your partner and his parents or their parents, and then now you're involved in this incredibly multilayered dynamic, the amount of times my partner will sort of offer advice, and I'll be like, you don't know! You're not part of it, so don't have opinions. You don't understand the deep context.

You're not a martyr. This is happening. But then I've not got this with my partner, but in the past there's the added horror of when I've got, I've met my ex's parents or whatever, any of them, and just seen my partner just acting like a 16-year-old. And it's creepy and gross. Yeah, it's nightmarish.

Once, my first boyfriend, one of my first, yeah, I went around to stay. and we were standing sofa and his mom came, and we just sat next which was on something, his mom came in and there was no room

squeezed in between us and put our arms around him and I had to go and sit on the other and it was so astoundingly overwhelming. That's the thing, it's like laughable. It's so ridiculous. And some people will be doing it on avert level and some people are doing it on a subconscious

and small level, but it's still there, you know, because and also we don't have children and we can never really comprehend what that is to have raised them for having many years of their life and then them to bring someone home and be like, it's her now actually. Yeah. And you'd be like, get out.

The first thing is like the understanding like this is universal. This is absolutely universal. The only people I really think have a good in-law relationship is Harry Potter and what's her chops, Ginny Weasley. And I would say that in-law relationship is batshit in its own way. Ginny Weasley's this Ron's sister who he goes out with Yeah

That's not in-laws Yeah it is To Molly Weasley and Arthur Weasley Oh as in Harry and Ron and Harry and Harry Marry is Ginny Weasley Which he shouldn't have done Of course yeah

And he'd be like Here are my amazing in-laws And that's because he's not real No It's because he's in love He wants them as his actual parents You know Yeah but that's

Cray as well Exactly it's what I'm saying So the whole thing is mad So everybody be saying My dad, we just went to my grandmas and my dad was almost sort of like moved to tick, like, he was like, they're all, it's always like this when we go here because your mom reverts to being a 16 year old child. My mom who is 64 years old. She just wants to go and like, do stuff

with grandma. You know, I'm not included. Like, nobody wants me. And I'm like, this is insane. And then I was like, this is, this is, and I was saying to him like, no, it's not you. Like, this is just what it is to enter a dynamic. And so like, whatever, this is, if this is, if this is a person writing in who is dealing with their first experience of in-laws and it's probably the first time you're in like a serious relationship in which you're like oh I think this might actually be the relationship of my life and your in-laws will be reacting in a similar way because it isn't just like a 14-year-old bringing like a girlfriend home that you're like yeah yeah well they'll be another one next month you're like we live together we're building life together there's a real

threatenedness of like oh my god this is it this is the person they've chosen whoever nobody in the world is ever going to truly be the perfect person for your child you know so you're never ever really going to be that. That's just like a given. All this dynamic will be universal. So there's no sense of like, I wish I had so and so as my in-laws. Like it doesn't matter. There'll always be this tension.

And so the only way through it is to simply like, know it's going to be there. Yeah. Going to that open-mindedly, say to your partner like, these are the things that are just funny and we can laugh about them. And like, this is how your mum or your dad is going to behave with me and is, you know, it's weird, but it's, we're laughing. Yeah. And these are the things that upset me. Yeah. So you have to pick your battles, I think, is the big, yeah, that's such a big one.

because of course most things will, you know, like, it's like when we did about, like, having Christmas at someone else's house, like the way someone else does stuff, you just constantly like, what, no, what, no, what, no. And that's fine for the first few times. But then when you are, your lives are inextricably linked and your in-laws decisions affect your own life and your partner's life, then they're bigger what knows. There are going to be some that you're just going to have to take on the chin. Like, okay, you don't want to go on holiday with your in-laws.

You're going to have to do it. because if you don't, then you're going to be making much more of a statement the other way and how much do you love the person that you're with? Like, it's important to do that. And then a crucial one that I think, I feel like this is the only rule, actually. Other than, like, you know, don't hit them over the head with a pan or something. But, like, you have to be careful. So you can't really, truly bitch complain about your partner's in-law.

sorry about your in-laws to their son or daughter or, you know, sorry, to their offspring. Child. Child. Sorry. It feels weird saying child because they're an adult. But that's the, and low, that's exactly it. But they are a child. Sometimes I will be, for example, like, you know, with a been like a family argument or something

and I'll be frustrated and my partner will be like, yeah, that sounds really like. But then if he, which he actually hasn't, but if he then, if he just out of the blue, was like, God, this is annoying that your parents do, I would, I would simply have to kill him. Yeah. Like, it would just be like, well,

you, you can say that, but you can't say that. Absolutely. And that, thankfully, hasn't actually happened because

we've not had any tension, really, that much. But when there has been tension, we've both been quite careful to let the other person lead,

you know, like, I'm allowed to lead the tension and he can nod along. If it's the other way around, like, if he, he does have family and it's the same rule

for me with them, and I've sometimes overstep them up by being like, well, that's annoying what he's done. Yeah. And then you're like,

You can't say that. And also, never, ever, even if they're inviting it, and I've not done this, but I've got a friend of who did this. Never, even if they, it looks like they're inviting it. It looks like they really want to never get involved in like a bitching session with their in-laws about them. Like, oh, they did this when they were younger. Oh, yeah, well, just don't do it.

But everything else, like, we can't really tell you how to deal with your in-laws because every set of people are different and every situation is different. but it's just something that you're not going to get through unless you're talking to your partner. So yeah, like you say, separate into things you just have to kind of do, you laugh at, you go like, oh God, and then things that you just have to kind of like suck up and go, well, this is, I'm going to have to spend X amount of Christmases with my in-laws, even though they fight all the time and they don't seem to love each other and it's horrible. Well, we're going to have to have to do that. And that's the frustrating thing.

Yeah, I don't think, I think everything else is sort of like you can't really advise on, can you? I think you can. Always turn up with a nice gift. Yeah, exactly. There's absolutely no point being like, this will be solved if you just do the gift, the thing, if you always offer to clear the table. I mean, do all those things in general.

But I truly think the only message through it is you are not alone. This is how everybody feels. And you just have to grin and bear it to an extent. Let them lead the power dynamic. And say to your partner, like, if things have upset you that someone has done, Rather than being like, your mum's a bitch, be like, it really upset me when she said that I wasn't smart enough for you. And I would love if in those moments you defended me.

But rather than being like, she's a bitch and she said this, be like, I was upset by this thing that she said. And it always be like, this is how I felt because they can't really. And here's how you can help the solution. And this how you can help me in this solution. Rather than being like, this is what they did and jacques. It's like, I personally felt a bit upset by that. and if you really like do not enjoy the spending time with them again like have a lot of open conversations with your partner very like of course this is going to be a tricky thorny issue because

like they are the parents you didn't pick like this is a family that's like forced upon you and maybe you like roll the dice and you got like an amazing big welcoming fun incredible family and maybe you get a family who don't speak to each other hate each other hate you you know but always underneath all of that is going to be this like that's my child and they don't belong to you that's always going to be however deep down like the crux of things and I think think just about being like if you really can't do it be like decide with your partner and be like this is the number of times I'm prepared to visit them yeah with you like you visit them as much as you like I have a friend who with now they have they have two children together and she goes at Christmas

and no other times in the year and he visits regularly with the children and they have a relationship with their grandparents but she's like I don't want to be part of it and I will visit once at Easter once at Christmas and that's it like and and so you can have those conversations to be like this is not of this is not something I'm prepared to put myself through. Please, you go as much as you like. I will not be. And these are the rules for the year, you know? Yeah, and as long as you're, as you're both,

is the way you say it is, you basically need you to have so many conversations with your partner that your partner doesn't feel, you know, devastated by that or that they're not able to go like, I'd really like it if you came for Easter, that's really important. And, okay, fine, well, Easter's on the table. Let's do this. And also just to be, no matter how you both know,

say you don't get on with his dad or whatever or their dad like that you don't need to reinforce that constantly by being like oh he hates me oh what like you can just like once it's been out in the open now we're just being civil nice light unless something else comes up and then you have to deal with that we both it's it's hard enough having the elephant in the room being the person I love doesn't like my parents or doesn't get on with with my parents without constant reminders of that like everybody knows so then it's like about just now how do we just get through this and live and function in a way that doesn't have this negativity hanging over us all the time. But yeah, it's, it's hard. You want to have the kind of five tricks that

we'll make, but like everybody's, everyone's mad. Everyone is completely mad and nobody is dealing with this correctly. And it's simply like being polite, making your boundaries, setting your time limits on everything, getting your, talking with your partner, getting your partner to stand up for you. Yeah. And if they don't feel they can, because there's some other context, history, whatever, then, like, that's not automatically like, oh, my God, well, that's the end. That's more of a, like, well, they've got shit going on. So you have to basically, the most important relationship is between you and your partner.

So, like, if you don't understand why your partner is not, like, it might be, while I'm not defending you because I've had previous relationships, and when I've done that, that has made things so much worse. Yeah. So then, but then, and sometimes people aren't able to communicate that. I feel like there's a lot of like, well, you didn't do that. You didn't stand up for me. So therefore this relationship is over.

It's like we have to get to the root cause of these things because you are going into a complex relationship ecosystem that's been going on for how many decades. And you've been with this person for what, like a year? Like that, or 10 years, like it's still no, you're never going to be as complex until you're like 80. Yeah. It's never going to be as complex.

And you're dealing with a person who carried them in their body. You know, you're never going to be as complex. going to win that fight. They're always going to have the one that's like, they came out of me. You know, they'll always have that trump card on you. And I think if things got super toxic and there's always fights when you go around and everyone's in tears and like this doesn't feel like this is like, ha ha, they brought that thing up again and we're all, it's, it's not fair, but it's funny. You know, and then I would suggest the two of you go consider a couple's therapy or something that you can like talk this through with a professional to be like, here's some, then you can explain

the specifics of the story and the like, these are some things that it's worth bringing up. You need to feel like a team. A team, exactly right. The only time that me and my partner have ever had any arguments about that is because he's felt like I've like ganged up on, because like we always tease each other and stuff as a family and he's felt like, well, everyone's just teased, like you're all just ganging up on me now.

And I'm like, right, yes, we need to feel like a team. You need to feel like, these are my parents, but you are my partner. And so I will protect you from any silly stuff or anything. You want your partner to feel comfortable telling you like what they need. from their in-laws experience with you. Like you want them to feel open to go, I don't want that, I do want that.

But also it is hard to hear things about your family. Oh, absolutely. So it's the most thorniestest of... Oh, it couldn't be thornier. And you just have to light your path, see your way through the thorns. I know you're not alone in the thorns. I think the only last thing is that

if you are the person who you feel your parents are mean to your partner and you find yourself not standing up for them or agreeing with the things that your parents say about them, that upset them or any of those things, or if at the moment you feel like you'd rather side with your parents than the partner, like that's a really big thing for you to unpack in your own time and is maybe a bit of a red flag. I was yawning.

I'm really bored. It's a bit of a red flag for this relationship. If like when you go home, you do, everyone will just revert to childhood when they go home in a small way. Like that's part of the course. But if you find that you'd rather hang out with your parents or that they're saying horrible stuff and you'll agree, like that's ask yourself why ask yourself why and if you want to be with this person still because

like you're you're a team yeah there's so much tension as well like it's there's there has to be you can't live like that if it's like constant tension something has to give on either side and it's yeah it's a very hard thing but hopefully that helped in some way just to know that you're not alone and that you can like it's just about you and your partner and you've got to work together with the in-law situation it can't just be you on your own and quietly going, what, mad, being like, every time, you know, his dad makes a weird, passive, aggressive comment at me,

no one seems to notice. Like, well, your partner probably does notice, but they probably don't know how to say it. Yeah. Or, like, it's an awkward thing to go, I'm sorry that my parents are being a nightmare. Like, it's, how do you do that? So, um...

You're not mad. You're not mad. They are. Yeah, they are. Because... You know what everyone else is. And that is the truth. Hopefully there was, if not advice,

then some comfort in there. Yes, I think there was maybe like one advice in there. Yeah, there's some good, good stuff. If you've got a mother of only sons, saddle up. God bless. God bless, there's nothing to be done. Best of luck. Best of luck.

Best of luck, everybody. Best of luck. Bye.