Nobody Panic - How To Overcome Fear (Live at Underbelly Festival)

Episode Date: June 11, 2019

Ever been frightened? If not you're a psychopath but absolutely no judgement from Stevie Martin and Tessa Coates who pick through some expert advice for how to get over your worst fears. Featuring some great tips from Susan Jeffers and her book Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway (plus some rain that Tessa keeps mentioning but you absolutely cannot hear on the actual podcast, apologies listeners)Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Nobody panic. A spigel tent?

Spiegel tent. It's so beautiful. It's my favorite place. Did I ask if we could use the trapeze? Yes. Did they say no? Yes. And today's episode is all about how to overcome fear. I feel I'm not really facing Tessa because, for those listening at home,

we're in like this cool round stage, so I have to like turn around like this. But that will be useless for people listening. Thank you so much to the Underbelly for having us. Thank you to the South Bank. Thank you to you, incredible people for coming. When we do these, we always just think, well, maybe it'll just be me and you. I did think this time. I did.

It's a thrill that you've come. Thank you so, so much. And also thank you so much to John Frieder, who have been sponsoring some of the podcasts of late. And they have sent us all. Oh, sorry, he has personally sent us. He sent one for all of you, with your names on. a weightless wonder cream. It's taking them ages.

So do have them. They're at the back. So when you leave, there's a weightless wonder cream for everyone. And if you're listening, you have it too. Just look under your bed. No, I'm so sorry. Imagine. Imagine if John had that power.

First thing first, we're not going to ask each other what adult things we've done this week because we've got everyone here to put it in these little pots to put their adult things. I'm sorry if I didn't get around to you to collect yours. Tessa has to just thrown it.

Tess has just thrown hers all over my foot. That's what she thinks about adulthood. So I thought we could do. We can't go through all of them. Otherwise, the whole podcast would be just us reading out things like, I bought a dog, which actually is quite fun. If anyone's bought a dog, well done. Are you good?

100. Absolutely. She's smashing it 100. Right. Here I go. No, you go. Okay. So should we do like, let's do five each and see how we feel.

Okay. Yeah, this energy is electric. Okay. First number one, I'm meal prepped for the first time ever. It tasted shit. Who was that? Yes! That's great.

You're gonna get bored of doing that, but good that it was early, because yeah, that's great. You've got to set the bar high for the claps, okay? Otherwise, we'll be clapping everyone. No, hi, otherwise, only clap if it's a stonker. Oh, sorry, yes.

Went to the ballet. Very impressive. Wow. Actually, that's more adult than more you think about it. I once went to the opera and threw up and myself and had to leave. It's actually genuinely true.

Brought a pen, especially, to write this. Oh, great. If any live episodes or anything to go by, there'll be more of those in this pot. Right. Checking in for a flight online, two weeks in advance. Holiday, two weeks in advance.

Jesus, right. Moisturized legs. Yeah, that's it. No, seven days in a row to exclamation marks, hashtag self-care. What happened on the eighth day? She made light. Too dry. Oh, whoa.

I say, I thought this is, I made a dad. But it's not that. I made a pad tie from scratch. So that's pretty exciting. I got a credit card and paid it off on time. Oh, that's very good. Jesus Lord. Who was that?

Oh, no, actually, no. That sounds like a money question. Who's in debt? Somebody had a terrible time. I went to a puppetry workshop in Worthing. Oh, God. That's not at all. That's terrifying.

Who was that? Did you have a nice time? Was it good? Did you have a nice time? It was so bizarre, she said. Did you make a puppet? She didn't have a puppet. Okay. Did you make friends?

No, okay. Okay, great life lesson. Don't go to Worthing for puppetry. Got excited about creating a budget for the next month. And so far, I've stuck to it. Oh, that is good. Fantastic. See, look, no one else has applauded anyone else's. Do you see what I mean? We know how it works.

Everyone gets so excited. Right, we can do like maybe three more each. Oh, God, don't make me choose. We have to choose. It's the power of the Lord. Finish teaching 30 minutes ago and still made it here, bracket sweaty. Well done. So am I, well done. My boyfriend and I moved out of a house share

into our own apartment. Yes, well done. A sexy one. Book to go on my first ever Hendo. It won't be your last. It won't be your last. Booked as well means it's somewhere afar. Where is it?

Barcelona. The city of dreams. Famously. Dealt with several queries without crying. That's simple, but I like it. I cry every time there's any queries. put a bike rack on my car by myself. I don't even know what those two things are.

That's excellent. A bike rack? No, car. Okay, I'm going to do one more and then we should start. Okay. Sorry, everybody. So if this is not yours, just leave. Okay.

Bought myself a new summer duvet, possibly a little prematurely now. Bit of observational comedy there. I like it. Also, you've crossed out summer and then written summer. Nice. Doubling down. Shit, this is a way to, this is a want to...

This is, okay, you have to applaud this one. You have to applaud this one. Otherwise, you're all leaving. I killed cancer cells. Come on. Ask who it is. No, is it, is it okay? Do you want to say?

Do you want to say or if not? Fine, fair enough. But that applause was yours. Well, assume they were yours. Mine? That, no, the person's. Oh, yeah. As opposed to...

Oh, but maybe they're like a radiographer or something. Yeah, so whatever it is. You've done really a great job. Well, done you. Oh, thank you so much. That was a really great one to end on us. well, Tessa. Left a party early because I wasn't having fun. Oh, okay. Okay. That got a bigger response for packing out. Right, okay. Excellent. Right. Well done. Should we kick? I kind of want to take my top off,

but I'm not wearing anything. Have you gone to anything? No, no, no. No one listening would know, but the atmosphere would be palpably weird, wouldn't it? For me, this is a very nice, Tess is wearing a really nice dress and I didn't think we were dressing up for the occasion, so I feel many best. Why not? The lovely people have come to the... No, I know, but I've got my best top on. Guys, I'm just saying. I got a nice top of nice trousers. I put the effort in. For the listener, Stevie is wearing like boiled wool. Boiled wool. And appears to be nude underneath.

And Tessa looks like a beautiful princess. Oh, where are those two nice girls who saw me on the phone earlier? And then they waved. And I meant like, hello, but then they were like, oh no, and then they ran away. It doesn't sound like they were waving at you. No, okay. I just want to say, hello, I was waving. It definitely sounds like they were waving at someone,

behind you and you went, hello! And then they ran away. That's what's... What's happened here? Right, but fear. What frightens you, Tessa? Oh, such a quick opener. Oh, sorry, fear.

Oh, Tessa, what frightens you? Oh, absolutely everything. Okay, great. Do you want to do yours first? Yeah, I came prepared. No, actually, I didn't. Wait, hang on, no, I did. Yes.

So things that frightened me are... Oh, yeah, okay. I should have come up with this off the top of my head rather than thinking of this. I'm frightened of people thinking I'm stupid. And I've realized that, which is weird, because obviously I'm incredibly stupid at all points. But that's from doing like this, like a live thing.

Very frightened today. To just like in social situations, you're having a conversation with someone, sort of like now. And they're looking at you like, oh my God, have I said something wrong? And then you keep talking and then you leave the conversation. And you're like, oh, my God, I didn't make any sense. And then I have to leave the party. Yes.

Yeah. So that's mine. And also ancient evil. Okay. I have lots of dreams. All my nightmares, you know, when people were like, oh, I had a nightmare where I was, like, doing something. And I was nude.

Mine are all like, oh, I had a dream that I was, I unlocked an ancient evil, and I was nude. Yeah. But it's the ancient evil part. And it's like, whenever I try to explain it, it's just like, oh, it was just a presence. And whenever I wake up, it's like, the presence is still here.

I hear you. Okay, thank you. I hear you 100%. What's yours? Mine are aging, death, dying. Oh, no. Everyone I know dying. Dying.

Oh. death again, the concept of time. And dying. Drowning. Oh, that's a new one. Oh, yes. Oh, no, wait, isn't the one about you being trapped in a box? You tell me about this one?

Yes, it's very specific. Drowning, while trapped in a small box, with a hole in it. So there's some hope, but I'm going to... Those are mine, and I... I know if any... I know we've all got a lot of opinions about Russell Brand. And rightly so. But if I could...

Do you have a fear of Russell Brand speaking? Horrible fear, yeah. No, no, but I did watch what he started putting up little clips of himself on the internet. He's got a very large beard and he has found spirituality. And good luck to him, I'd say. I can't wait for this, but where this is going. Well, he said a very interesting thing about fear, which was that it is the same amount of fear has been in your body all your life.

It just moves around and it holds on to different things. So the things you're afraid of when you were six are not the same things you're afraid of now. but the amount of fear is the same and so mine, I mean the drowning one has stayed with me forever but I thought about the things I was afraid of when I was small and they were the girl from the ring

Oh yeah, big one drowning in a small box with a hole in it Did you see what lies beneath when she looks in the bath and there's like a ghost behind her No, Harrison Ford's behind it Lots of people are behind her in the film I was very frightened of people being behind me And then I slept with the light on for nine years

I still do When I'm alone in the house I still sort of do I don't like to have a bar. Oh my God, Tessa. Sorry, I'm so sorry. But there's this time where I was, no, you'll appreciate this. I was alone in my flat and the TV fucking came on.

No. Like in the ring, have you seen the movie. I would have just launched myself out the window and out. I did. It's like black and white static. Yes. Yes. If you haven't seen the ring, it's the worst thing I've ever seen.

She climbs out the TV. Don't see it. Don't see it. I did it to impress a boy. We went to the cinema. God. It's the worst thing. Don't impress boys.

No. Don't, don't say. No. So how much are they going to be impressed really? No. I don't know. He's gone and I'm still here sitting with Samara, the girl from the ring. Yes, I know a name. Yes, I researched a backstory.

Six days. It's important to be prepared. The girl from the ring. Being locked in a basement by your parents. With the girl from the ring. She could be there or not. It's just the idea that they would be like, why don't you see what's in the basement?

And then I'd go down. We don't even have a basement. Just the idea of being in the basement, being locked anywhere at all. being downstairs on the Titanic. That's one that's quite easily avoided. Yeah. But that's the thing.

I would lie awake thinking about it. Yes, I understand. But the fear was real. And they weren't just like, oh, yeah, that would be bad. It was like, oh, no. All consuming. Also, you've brought ancient evil to the party. So, you know, I'm so sorry.

You're welcome. Now, this is very specific to being age eight when there was a headlice epidemic, a primary school. Yes. And I'm not afraid of the headlights. And I'm don't mind germs. I'm actually quite gross. And so the headlights didn't bother me. But then word got out that if you had headlights and they found them on you, they just shaved your head.

And now I would be like, oh, weird, but weird flex, but fine. Natalie Portman, by it. You can style it out. And part of me would be like, I think I'll rock it. Yeah, absolutely. As a child, that was the worst thing I'd ever heard. So someone cutting off all my hair. And then here at the end, Kiwi fruit.

Okay. So how to eat it or like... Just didn't like it. Just so green. So the point is that your childhood fears, whatever they are, are probably less in your mind now than they were when you're a kid, but now they've just been replaced by other things. Absolutely.

I mean, there are a few sort of runners, like ancient evil for me. Yes. But, yeah, things I still get, I get more frightened about, like, adulty things now, but with the same vehemence that I did about, what lies beneath and Harrison Ford. Exactly. And I think if you all think in your head of, like,

your top five biggest fears, the big list of like the country's fears included like spiders heights and then like death death of a loved one rejection commitment being fired from your job public speaking came up a million times snakes and so that list you're like yeah they're all we've also got the same we've all got the same fears that's so weird I was looking at it so I looked into exactly what is happening when you are frightened by something and I was like yeah we've all heard of like fight or flight. We all know that that sort of happens. But there's actually a

second one as well. There's two reactions that go on that I thought was quite cool. So the first one is the biochemical response, which is fight or flight, which if you don't know, it's basically all of those bodily symptoms you get when you're really frightened. So I don't know, your palms are sweaty, your knees are weak, mom's spaghetti,

and also just like, I don't know, talking shit. I don't know, like there's lots of like, are you shaking? Heart beating fast is kind of the main one that kind of kicks everything else off. And that's because your body immediately, your brain can't differentiate between fears. So it doesn't know whether that's a tiger coming towards you or like doing a live podcast or doing a presentation at work. It just goes like, fear, fear, fear. And so nor adrenaline and adrenaline are released in your body. But there's a

second one, which is a lot more heartening. Because you basically can't really do anything about that first one. Every single human, apart from the old psychopath. technically we'll have some in tonight. Anyone? No. And yeah, apart from those people, everyone has this reaction. But the second reaction is completely varying depending on what sort of person you are. So that's why some people like scary movies and some people don't.

Or some people like roller coasters and some people don't. And it's the emotional response. So it's basically the emotional response to the biochemical response. So what I thought was interesting about that, is that you can change it. So if you're... So think about when you're excited, those same things happen.

Your heart beats faster, you might get sweaty. And that's because it's using the exact same chemicals as it does when you release fear. So if you go, oh, my heart's beating, I'm excited, and you basically tell yourself consciously you're excited, then you will start to feel excited rather than fearful. And that's what like athletes do and footballers do.

They'll be like, I can't wait for this game and they'll click like this. I don't know if you've seen football. That's amazing. Isn't it? Isn't it? Yeah. Thank you.

That's really fascinating. Yeah, it was just struck down by my incredible intellect. Don't be worried that people think you're stupid. Oh my God, I was. Yay! Yeah. That one I can't do anything about. No, nobody can, and that's what's so frightening.

Yes, yes, absolutely. So the title, How to Face Your Fears and Do It Anyway, is the title of a book by a lady called Susan Jeffers and she wrote it. Is that right? Yes, I think so. No, k-dokey. Susan, are you in? She's died.

I was trying to find interviews with that she's not here anymore. I think so. Well, what's great about live podcasts is we don't edit them, so everyone listening. I think she's died, Tessa. Oh, guys. She's listening. No, she's died.

No, she's died. She's done. Oh my God, what a roller coaster. 2012. God rest in peace. Not long. I wasn't far off then. You weren't far off.

Also, that's fine. She's with us now. Well, I was reading her book, and I just felt she was so present. So I assumed she was alive. That's what books do, yeah. Oh, God. Okay. I could have said that more.

I didn't mean to be so surprised by her book. But you read it. You loved it. Yes. wanted to bring her truth. I did want to bring her truth to the table. The late, great Susan Jeffers. We're never going to get over this now. This is the rest of the podcast. Famously, of course. We all know that Susan died in 2012. October, quite near Halloween. Did she? Ah, 27th, October. It's close enough. But before she died,

she wrote to us and said, she brought out her book more than 25 years ago. And then she brought another one on the 25th anniversary, and the book is called, Feel the Fear? Oh my God, mate, this was your thing. I'll look it up. You're the one telling me it's wrong. Well, I don't think it's called

If we all face off fears, maybe you can do it anyway, is what you said. Or feel the fear and do it anyway. Everyone in the room knows it. We all know it. I just Googled it. Right. Right. Look, look, the energy is very aggressive.

From who? From who? Okay, the... A lot of fun. when someone grabs your thighs, stares at you, goes, a lot of fun. You know it's a cracker of a show. I'll do it for you, come on. Yeah, it's nice.

Were there some truths that she said? Yes, there were. So this is the thing about Susan Jeffers' book, and it is genuinely very interesting. So now I'm going to give you a bit more power and authority. Thank you. So much, women. And so she talks about how you break down your personal fears

into those that happen and those that require action. So in those that happen are just things that happen to you that you can't control, and they probably speak to a deeper fear of loss of control in you. So the things that happen are just like aging, retirement, being alone, your children leaving home, as we all are worried about, are we not? Natural disasters, the politics, the environment, climate change. I'm going to have a panic attack. Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

So I think you might be war, I'm just naming things, might be more... You think I might be war? You might be more in the camp of being afraid of things that happen to you. Oh yes, absolutely. As opposed to things that require action. So those are things like going back to school, making a decision, changing careers, making friends, going to a party. I love that stuff. Ending or beginning a serious relationship.

Famously, you love to dump people. Constantly. Using the telephone, asserting yourself, being interviewed, driving public speaking, making a mistake, and even intimacy. So those are the difference between things that happen and things that require action. And then you want to sort of look inside

and decide if you're a person who this is thrilling. If you can't hear it, if you can't hear it basically there's like a thunderstorm going against the tent. Just in case someone's like, this is thrilling and they think you're talking about listing terrible things. But also I am thrilled.

This is thrilling. So here are Susan's five great truths about fear. They are the... Thank you, Susan. They are. Right, come on. Back on track. Number one, the fear will never go away. So this is a big one.

That's incredibly unhelpful. The fear will never go away. She was alive, I'd give her a peace of my mind. Susan. The feel will never go away. And so this is like, if you're like, oh, I want to try, I'm going to do this thing that I'm afraid of, and I will

when I finally feel not so scared. Like when the kids go back to school It's the when this then that Like when I've got money then I'll do it When the kids go back to school Or like if I do public speaking The moment I get up I'll be fine

No you'll continue to be frightened during it So if you ever speak to Ian McKellen as I do Surrian Surrian as I say to his face No I just read on his Instagram That somebody in an interview once said You must be so brave and confident You just must get up every night

When did your stage fright go away? When did you stop being nervous? And he said, oh, don't be stupid. It never goes away. I'm sick every time I go on stage. I just work to control it in a different way. And so it's never going to go away. It's just you can, you just have to power through it.

Like the thing about changing your perspective, so being like, oh, I'm excited rather than, oh, my hand sweating means I'm frightened. That's what the footballer said, Virgil Van Dyke of Liverpool FC. He said, oh, I don't get frightened anymore before a match. I've trained myself to be excited by it. And it was like, great. So it's not going to go away. He always feels excited before a match.

He takes that same energy that used to be attached to the Titanic or the hair or wherever. Is my thing going in and out? You keep moving your mouth away from the microphone. I understand. Always there for you. Thank you. Oh yeah, that is louder. Okay.

Listeners at home, I hope you enjoyed the last 10 minutes. Number two, the only way to get rid of the fear is to actually go out and do it. Oh, yeah. Fine, Susan. I hate that. But it is true because, yeah, I mean, I don't have anything to add. The number three is very similar. It's the only way to feel better about myself is to actually go and do it.

Susan, I think you needed less truths. Yeah, just like three truths. Sue's three truths. Number four is a good one. It is, yes, I'm experienced in this fear, but so is everyone else. And that's such a big one that you go to anywhere and you're like, oh, like the lovely lady who left this party because she wasn't having fun. And she's like, oh, everyone else is fine.

with it. They're not, they're just plowing through it. They feel exactly the same way you do. Yeah, it's like the kind of Freshers Week thing where you turn up, and if you haven't been to university, you turn up and you just like, everyone doesn't know each other, and it's the most terrifying thing. Even if you're very extroverted, I think it's just a bit like, oh God,

and then you realize everyone's desperately trying to make friends and everyone is terrified. Even in the coolest parties, I've found that. Even the ones that I've left. Yes. And even the people that you think are the coolest, bravest people in the world, they're still feeling the fear. They're just... Doing it anyway.

Just doing it anyway. And the last one is that pushing through the fear and doing the thing that you are afraid of is less frightening than living with the fear. I think that's really powerful that deserves an applause. No, no. Give I shower to applause, yeah, but very good of you. Sorry, I think that's really great.

Also, like, I thought it was going to end with the word regret because I feel like regret is worse than going through the fear. Basically, what I'm saying is I could give Susan a few edits. I couldn't. She did a very good job. Her whole manifesto is this idea that we only fear the things that we cannot handle. So it's this idea that like, oh, if I'm in an accident or if I, whatever, I won't be able to handle it. But if you're like, her basic thing is like, you have survived every single day up until now.

You have survived every single thing that's happened to you. You were going to survive whatever life throws at you. Oh, wow. Oh, my. They're like, preacher vibes from that, you know, and like, and like, you have survived. I was like, yeah. Right. But no one will did it.

Yeah. Yeah, you can see why the breaches are popular. Like, you're like, yeah, you have survived. You can handle it. Even if you think, like, I won't be able to handle it. I'll, it will be too much if this X, Y and Z, this thing I'm terrified of happening to me happens. You're like, you can. You will be able to.

And once you change your mindset, you can do anything. You can do anything. Also, I was going to say a good way of, like, sometimes fear can masquerade itself as different emotions. So sometimes when I've been really frightened of doing something, I've known because I've been like, I'm like, what's that horrible? Like, oh, it's because I want to do it as well. But I'm terrified and I'm really jealous because I think, well, look, she or he has got this amazing skill and confidence to do that and I can't do.

I'm just pointing over here, but maybe it's you. I'm so jealous of you. But yeah, like, and I think you have to, everyone has about sort of two or three things that they never get around to doing because they're like, oh, I would do that maybe if I was a different person, but I'm not that sort of person, but secretly I'd really like to. And I think that we need to all kind of accept and acknowledge what those two things are and then realize that we only live once, we might as well do them. And they're never going to go away.

You're never going to wake up in like 10 years and be like, I'm so glad I didn't do that thing that I wanted to do. You're always going to want to do it. So you might as well just do it. Yeah. Regret the things you did and how bad they went rather than not doing it, you know? Come on. Oh my God.

Thank you, thank you. The hairs on the back of my neck. I just stanched it up and then gone back down again. Straight back down. Straight back down. Horizont. Okay, so I have some tips as well that I saw, the first one I've already said. Oh, yeah, that one was something that...

Yes, okay. So if you're thinking of doing something and you're, or you're frightened of doing something and you're like, I'm never going to be able to do it, you're probably thinking of the end result. You're thinking of the end game. So I think public speaking is quite good. And, I mean, obviously, wasps or sharks.

Like, this isn't going to help with that. Just don't be in a shark. Don't be near a wasp I think the wasps and the sharks fall into a phobia more than they fall into a fear So true, phobias and fears Yeah, and they come from the same place

But they're more difficult to manage Because you need like specialist kind of Because there's all that thing about like Exposure therapy where you expose yourself You just expose yourself You get naked Very unpopular So very unpopular

It doesn't really do anything Unless actually your fear is being nude In which case smashing it but if you're frightened of, I'm very frightened of wasps, exposure therapy does not work. I just piss myself. And then I'm continuing to be frightened of wasps. Have you tried it?

Oh, I mean, like, yes, as in like when I've been... With a professional, just you've taken yourself near a wasp. Can I tell my favorite story? Oh, about us writing stuff, and I, we've got to just say it. No, but I do like that story as well. Stevie once was walking home and a bee flew behind. her and she ran away from the bee. And then as she was running, she thought,

I'm very good at running. So she carried on running with the bee chasing her. And then she ran all the way home, and then she was sick in the bath. It's my favorite story. That is correct. And also, that did kickstar about a year's worth of regular running. Yes. Shout out

about B. Sometimes from your greatest fears come your greatest success. That is so true. I haven't run in ages. I'm just remembering that story. You need a B. I need a B. And the bees are dying, so I'm running less. That's what's happening. But I've meant things that you can control. So public speaking or doing a presentation at work or...

One of the things... War? I don't think war is particularly relevant. So then with the one that you have to face and plow through them, they're in the things requiring action. Yeah, yeah. The things requiring action, but I was trying to think of something else because I keep saying public speaking.

Oh, asking for a pay rise. Okay, fine. Asking somebody out. Oh, that's a good one. Asking the telephone if it's all right. Sure. We're all frightened of that. Speaking on the telephone.

What I'm trying to say is with those things, if you're really, really frightened, then you're thinking about the end game. You're thinking of like, I'm frightened of that moment when I get up and I do it. But you have to break it down. I find it anyway a lot easier to break it down into manageable little steps. So if we just take this, doing this live thing now, I would be frightened if I hadn't done a little plan and hadn't like kind of figured out what I was going to say

and looked up the title of the book and things like that. And just, it's not a sick burn. It just is a difference in personality. But I'm quite stressed about things like that. And Tess is very, very chilled and not frightened of those things. So, but it helps me to, like, got up this morning, had a little look. So that was like my first step. I wasn't thinking about what happens when I go up?

What if they, I don't collect all their add-all things. You just kind of take each little bit. Like, so I got in quite late and here. And I was like, oh, I'm going to panic. I was doing a gig. I was doing a show. And so I got here and I was like, oh. And then I thought, no, I'll get a nice glass of wine.

That was the next thing. I wasn't being like, and then I'm going to have to go on stage. So you have to like look at the next little bit and just, just focus. It's basically mindfulness, isn't it? I can't actually hear myself over the towering rain. This is going to have to become a just, everyone close your eyes and we listen to the rain noise experience. I've got that calm app and it does sleep stories. It's like, hello, I'm Stephen Frye.

And this is tonight's sleep story. Oh. Yeah. And then he tells me about the process of making lavender in Provence. Does he? Yes. No, it's not a lie. And then also he, there's someone else,

because I don't know what his name is, he's not famous. And he tells me about journeys through the stars, all the different constellations. Oh, I've got a piece somewhat. Brian Cox? Could be, it's not, because he doesn't have a very sleeping voice, does he? No. No.

I've been listening to a lot. Somebody recommended Harry Potter, the audiobook with Stephen Frye, as a sleep tool. And let me tell you, re-listening to the Deathly Hallows bit is not a sleeper part. Hogwarts is on fire!

It's been a long time since I'd read it and I just sort of picked it random and it began and it's literally like Harry looked at Snape as he died on the floor and then it's like spoiler isn't it? Wow, I mean I've read it obviously but people might not feel.

Harry, at the end of that book, that child, that 17 year old child walks into a forest to like face his death and then lies on the floor where everyone thinks he's dead, listens to the screams of his loved ones. Fear, all fear, all good stuff. Keep going.

Anyway, it was very... No, we're using him as an example as an icon. Oh, my point was it was very harrowing to listen to, and I don't recommend it. My point is start with book two and don't go anywhere else. Okay. Right. Do you have some tips?

Yes. I've raced through a few, so... Absolutely. I just was really... I'm genuinely enjoying the rain. Just talk about your thing of noro-adrenaline. If you find yourself in a scary situation, accidentally or otherwise, you've gone into it on purpose or it's happened to you and you find yourself afraid.

Your body, this like fight or flight or even and freeze is the third one for animals that freeze. Which is mere cats. And also us, if you've ever found yourself really panicked, we freeze as well. It's one of the options. I move too fast when I'm frightened. I guess there's a range of things that people do. You move too fast? Yes, I can't stop moving when I'm frightened.

Oh. That's also unhelpful. It doesn't matter. Keep going. Well, you'd be got pretty quick on the... Not if it was like someone attacks me and I'm like moving all over the place. Absolutely. Thank you.

Absolutely. Yeah, I back you. Yeah, I've also, I've completely thrown you as well. No, no, no, no. I'm very confident. I... I am. and so likable right now.

I, when you find yourself in that horrible feeling, your, your body has two sets. It has, this is very bad and like, this is cool.

Should we have a fig? Like, those are its two options. Running off figs. Yeah, running off. Those is basically, it's like, we're chilled out, doesn't seem to be any danger so far. And then this is very, very bad.

And it's very hard. Your body can go like, that into it being very, very bad, which is how something happens on the bus home or any sort of stressful situation happens out of nowhere and suddenly you're up here, your shoulders are up and you're breathing and you're very tense and it's really scary or you have to go up suddenly someone's like, and do you know Janet and in a meeting and you're like, I don't know. And so. Janet's like an ancient evil. Sorry, yeah. Sorry, we didn't make that clear.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Obviously you're terrified of Janet. She's just like three faces. She's the worst. So you're frozen up like this. And it can take a really long time. You can get there instantaneously. It takes a really long time for your body to get back down. But the one part of your body that works for both is your breathing system. And so if you can trick your breathing to be like, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool. And make your breathing come back down again.

That's your quickest route back to being like, oh, we're calm. Your brain will latch on to that. Your brain will latch on. If you can override that system. If you're getting mugged, just breathe very slowly. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's me getting mugged. Yeah.

I don't know if I recommend it for mugging. I think for like low-leves fear. Yeah. Like, oh, Janet, rather than like, ah! Like, yeah, I don't know. Even high level, not the mugging, but... Okay.

Like, long-term fear? Like, I'm afraid of a thing happening rather than this thing is instantaneously happening. Yes, so when you... And again, our body that's designed for a different time, when it thinks of something in the feet, It can't differentiate between that being right now and that being very far in the future. So it's having the same response to it.

And again, you just be going to be like, hey, buddy, get back on, come on back to me. That's why when you're, like, frightened of something in the future, I didn't, oh, God, I was just supposed to launch into something. And there's, like, quite a lot. Basically, I need the toilet when I'm frightened. So when I'm thinking about something in the future, I still need the toilet now. So, like, I didn't know why I said that. Thank you for sharing.

Young out. I meant like, so yeah, that is evidence of it in the future. But I didn't need to give that evidence. You know, I mean, you just said it. It's like, by the way, I shit myself. Right, continue. I think it's very popular to... Oh, it's gone down a tree.

Yeah. It's very... We're all being quiet, but I think everybody has had a moment of fear and shut themselves. Have we not? Everyone put your hands up, though. No. But I do think everybody's familiar with that response of like, oh my God, you say you're doing a best man speech in six months and so one says how's your best man speech coming on and you go like oh my god I feel I'm just gonna I feel sick even thinking about it that feeling that's your brain being like is it now is it now is it now like that it doesn't understand how far away it is or how much time you have and again you just can be like breathe it out champ like we're fine we're fine we're fine we're fine we're fine it's all about tricks isn't it even like every episode we've ever done about how to do anything it always comes down to you are actually way more in control than you're

think you are and it's very easy to say that now but when it comes to it you're like I know that because we talk about it a lot but then whenever I'm frightened of something I'm like yes but not now and it's like oh no now now I still am in control like I still don't have to give in to those like I don't have to feel my heart going and go oh my god this is the end I'm going to fuck it up because I'm so frightened it could be like actually I'm going to nail it because I'm full of adrenaline and that's given me an extra bit of hotspa absolutely if I pronounce that correctly I think you did thank you Fantastic. Thank you. The other thing about, so say that you're, the totally different point about, about.

Coping with fear. Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is? Oh, is. Is that. So say it's one of these actionable ones. So with the things that are happening to you that you freak out. about and you think I won't be able to cope if this thing happened. Remember that? You will. You've managed to cope with everything else. And the action ones, the things that you think you're too scared to try and do, and so you stay here in the comfort zone. Those things, it's very easy for

your brain, which is trying to keep you safe and say like, do, no, no, no, no, we're fine here, a fig? Like, stay here. One of the things it will throw up is like, why do you think you should be able to do that? Why would anyone want to listen to you give the presentation? Oh, there's thunder. It's Susan. Janet. No, it's Susan. Fuck.

We're so sorry, Susan. She did know the name of the book. She has read it. I really enjoyed it. She did. Yeah, that really has thrown me because that is like, I mean, anyway,

imagine if it gets struck by lightning, guys. Just think about that. And we will handle it. I'll breathe very slowly through the electrocution. You've survived everything else. and you will survive being directly hit by lightning. That's the take home.

That's the take home. So is that you want to apply for a new job or you want to get a pay rise or you want to go and ask you a boss for something or you want to write a book or try singing in public or any of these things? And I'm sure if you all really look inside yourselves, everyone has got something that they really secretly desperately want to do. There will be a million obstacles that you put in your place that will be a voice of criticism that might, if you really do, if you really do, tribe might be the voice of your parents or might be the voice of a friend or might be the voice of a weird teacher who was very mean and got it in your head that you weren't very good at art perhaps um and uh you have to listen to her voice and those voices will be like who do you think you are why do you think you should be doing this um why would anyone want to listen to you um why do you

have something to say who would want to buy your art etc um i i have never tried to sell art on a professional level and uh and that is not for lack of fear but lack of talent um and and But that's basically saying all the things that you would never say to a friend. Never. Or even someone that's like you didn't even like that much. You never say those things. You'd be like, no, I'd want to buy your art. No, I'd be like, best of luck, mate.

Have a go. No one needs to buy her art. Do it for you. Do it for you because ultimately it comes out like life is short. And when you're like, why me? Like, why not you? Like go, take it. Seize this thing.

Have it. Like, it's yours. And who cares if everyone's like, oh, she thinks she's a bit much. Try out for the pay rise. Trying out for a new job. Trying out for the cheerleaders. She's 77. Great.

Do it. Do it. I say do it. Here I come. Why not me? Why shouldn't I be out of it? Everyone isn't saying that. You're saying that.

So like when you make a decision, no one gives a shit. Like genuinely, maybe like the three people close to you would be like have an opinion on it. Everyone else just goes, oh, okay. But they're thinking of the next thing to say in the conversation. So you're the one who's frightened. No one else is being like, she can't do that. He can't do that. You absolutely can.

I was just sort of backing you there. Thank you. so much. That's fine. One thing the times I ever have been judgmental about other people and I have Oh absolutely. Don't pretend I haven't. Oh my God. Scaving. Saving. Ruthlessly scathing.

The impact of my judgment was zero. That's true, yeah. Me being like I can't think of judgmental thought. Don't do that. More specific. Don't join the circus. We're in a tent. Yeah, good.

Don't patron No, sorry, sorry, sorry, that was me trying to, I was trying to think, oh, sorry. Fictional, my friend Terry said I'm joining the circus and I said, oh, good luck. And then secretly to Stevie, I was like, Terry will be shit in the circus. And, ooh, what do they think he's doing? Trapeze. And really, A, it's because I want to do the fucking trapeze. Yes.

Very important. And B, me whispering that to Stevie had zero impact on Terry's ability to join the circus. Even if I'm going to marry Terry, me going, Tessa said that you wouldn't be very good at the circus. Terri just be like, don't give a shit. Don't give a shit because I'm fucking fantastic at the trapeze, mate. So like, don't get, even if you're like, that's the worst thing you can imagine. Everyone bitching about you. You'd be like, so? Like, yeah, carry on. Live your life. And also fear is a good thing to feel. I think that's one of the things like, it's the same as like jealousy and a lot of like emotions that are seen as being

negative. They've basically got a bad rap. You know, I feel very sorry for this motion. jealousy. Jealousy and fear. Everyone's like, but actually, you know, they're really good because they're evolutionary

supposed to get, as humans, we are supposed to constantly push out of our comfort zone. That's why we're in this massive mess and climate change.

That's why that's happened. But we are supposed to do it. Like we are supposed to look at something and go, oh, I'll have a go at that or I don't feel I could do that. Maybe I will. Like that, maybe I will

is the reason the wheel exists. And if the person who does feel was like, oh, no, Terry, you'll laugh at me. Yeah. Tessa just said, a wheel, what's that?

In that very, that shrill voice. And she did, yeah. But imagine if they'd listen to me back then. Exactly. Being like, we don't need wheels, Terry. I've got feet. Absolutely, classic caveman chat. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. And I imagine if they'd been like, yeah, you're right, you're right. I should just go back to sort of whittling this stick or whatever I'm doing. Yeah, which is good as well. And then equally, I'm like, don't whittle that stick. I've got hands, however. And it's this, you know, you're exhausting in the caveman era.

Exactly, I'd be the worst. And I hope they killed me early on. Oh, don't say that. Jesus. Well, they had things to get on with. No, I hope that you realized that the fear of wheel, of the people making wheels was coming from within. If you're very judgmental as a person you're saying here

and you're really relating to Tessa, first they sort it out. Yes. When unchecked, it's frightening. Secondly, it's coming from you wanting to do something. That's sort of what I meant before when I was like, you know, and you're like, and that's what it's sounded a bit like Brian Cox. That's what I meant. I meant like, oh, I want to do that.

And it sometimes manifests itself in quite a negative way. But it is always a positive thing if you like, if you know thyself. Know thyself. Know thyself. Know thyself. That's a Bible quote. Is it? I don't know.

Let's move on. Good be. Could be. Good be. Okay. Go on. Have you got any more? I'm running quite dry, I'm honest.

I've got some good, good quotes, though. Yes, please. I'd love a quote. I mean, I'm scared because I don't think I've finished reading it, so it could end with something really weird. I just started it and was like, this is good. And then it might end with, and that's why owls should be king. Okay.

What? This is by Eleanor Roosevelt, who said, you gain strength, courage and confidence by each experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You're able to say to yourself, I've lived through this horror. Oh, I can take the next thing that comes along.

you must do the thing you think you cannot do. And owls should be bishops. So there we go. I think that is the very true thing. I think if you're doing things that you're frightened of, I think you really are living. Obviously don't go to the extreme. I don't think like, you know,

if you're a friend of being mugging, if you're a friend of being mugged, don't get mugged. Like, I think, but with those things that are actionable, I think you should, you'll have a list. Run towards them. Or just like casually sashay towards them.

Yeah. Sauntered. towards them, just put things in place as well because as you said right at the start, you'll never not be frightened of it. Like, public speaking isn't something that I particularly enjoy, but every time I do it, I get very frightened

and it doesn't stop, but I get better at managing it, so I just get like, okay, well, you know, I'll talk quite fast at the start. I'm sweating. I won't wear wool next, boiled wool next time. But there are things that I do that help, and they make me, I'm pointing at some wine,

and they make it easy, and they make me, and you kind of, you start to recognise the fear. It's like, I recognise that fear of when the lights come on, and everyone's gone quiet. And I'm like, oh, God, I know that feeling now. And I knew it when I was doing at work, and I'd have to, like, pitch an idea. We had this, when I became a journalist, I would very much be very quietly writing by myself. And then I joined the debrief, they rest in peace. They're not dead.

There's a, it's a magazine that went under. And I did my first ever, like, pitch meeting, and you, like, go in, and there were all these really, really cool writers that I, really looked up to and you had to go around and you had to be like, I think we should put this on today on the website. And I was so terrified. But I, you know, prepared or whatever. And then the next time, I just knew what that felt like. And then the next time I knew it was okay.

And then when I got like rejected and the editor was like, absolutely not. That's a terrible idea. I knew how that felt. So the next time she did it, I was like, yeah, I know. What is the worst that can happen? Oh, that thing again. Like, that's fine.

And the more you do, that is the only way that you can get over fear is you just keep doing it. And it is horrible. The first time is horrible. It's always horrible, but if you can get through that first time, then you know you've won. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And all of those things, you know, rejection being, you know, set back.

Someone saying your work isn't good luck. Of course they're terrifying and awful. But you got through them and then you came out the other side and you did something great. I just a few, I've got two things to say. Oh, I can't do it. Then I'm... Then you're going to leave. Then throw that down.

One is a lady one. said to me, and she was American, of course, and very earnest. I love that about Americans. Yes. Thank you, Susan. Is she America? No, no, the rain stopped. Oh.

I can't keep track. Susan, this American woman was talking about writing something and how we all really have this very

intense idea in our head that we'll try whatever the thing that you want to try juggling, singing, writing. Juggling was first. Try something like juggling. Juggling. We all want to do it. You know, that we all have that thing in our head that we want to do and we all have this vision of we'll just get up without any practice

and everyone will be like, Mozart lives. Yes, we're like a child prodigy but at 31. Exactly. Exactly. That suddenly everyone will be like, oh my God, They're the best juggler we've ever seen, and they didn't even practice. Like, we want to have the golden buzzer on the X Factor. We want this, like, you know,

we didn't even try and we're just amazing at it. And she said that, well, firstly, she says, you know, like, fucking practice, for God's sake. You can't just walk up there and try juggling for the first time on the X Factor. But she said... Just they'll be like, sing. Oh, shit. I'm thinking of Britain's got talent.

I'm thinking of Britain's got talent, everyone. And I am sorry about that. I haven't actually watched it. I would have stopped you at the golden buzzer, but I haven't watched it. Oh, God. Do not juggle on the X factor. What? You would be asked to leave.

Oh, no. It's neither here nor there. It's neither here nor there. She said, firstly, do your 10,000 hours. Like, do your time. Just, like, put your work in and practice and do your 10,000 hours, which is famously what they say it takes to go from a beginner to being the best of the expert. Like just put the time in and don't imagine it's going to happen immediately.

And that she said, imagine how sad it would be if the first thing you ever made was the best thing you ever made. That's very true. And it really stuck with me that like, you know, if you're paralyzed by fear of wanting to do this job or wanting to present this work or whatever your personal fear is, we're all obsessed with it being incredible, the first one out of the blocks. Be like, how sad would that truly be if that really was the best one that they said. He'd always be trying to catch up. There she goes, the protege, the Mozart, the job. or whatever, and then that you never managed to replicate that for the rest of your life.

So, like, yeah, the first thing is just your first thing on your way to making something amazing. So just like, just fucking get in the pool. Like, stop standing on the sidelines. Like the, there's this book that was at the British Museum about Harry Potter, History of Magic, but like Harry Potter sort of book, fine.

Anyway, there was like a scan of J.K. Rowling's first chapter of the first book, and then it had all of like the edits and stuff. And so the editor had just gone through, be like, no, well, you haven't introduced that character, so you can't say that that. And it was so great because it was like, in my head, she genuinely

wrote that on a note. On the train. Yeah, on some, like, Louie Paper. Between Kings Cross and Edinburgh. And it was like, oh, on the train. And was like, I'm afraid you can't go to the train to read it? She always says that she wrote it on the train. Understood, yeah, okay. We're out of paper. Yeah. Just Bloomsbury, can you just go and look at the tray table,

please? But yeah, I always thought it was just, you know, and it's not. I mean, the only book that I think was written, it was like Jack Kerouac on the road, and that's shit. Everyone says it's good, but it's fucking not. It reads like he's writ it on Lurow, yes, that's me. Rit it.

But yeah, the idea of being... Is that coming from a place of jealousy? Oh, God, no. It comes to a place of doing English literature, and loads of guys been like, have you read on the road? Yes, what's wrong with you? My God.

I had to do an examiner, and I was like, it was shit, and I got a third. Anyway, so... No, I'm my overall degree. just in that module. Anyway, I got two, too. And so, but, well, I forgot what I was saying now,

but you were saying it. It was about your first thing being your best thing. Yes, I think that's a great idea. It has to be a low bar, you set the bar low, like when we did the adult thing before, and everyone really applauded and you never quite hit those heights.

You've got to start with like a small smattering of applause, and then by the time everyone's like, woo! You're like, yeah, we built to this. We built to this. And then you're at an age where you can deal with it as well, you know? Yes. Smash out your genius thing at 45, 60. Yeah.

102. I have a friend who has been in this like on-off relationship with somebody for two years. It's me. It's me and Stevie. And I, she keeps being like, well, what if it's bad? What if it's the wrong thing? I'm like, what it's much? We'll get in the pool and find out.

Like, stop dilly-delling on the sidelines being like, what if the water's cold? Like, fucking jump in and find out, for God's sake. You can't live your life on the sidelines on the side of the. pool just like wondering if it's cold or not like get in and be like oh fucking cold and then get out again like and then get on with your life. This is the metaphor for the relationship isn't it yeah yes so if the relationship does turn out to be bad once you get in then you you found the answer and you leave the pool and go to another pool and get on with your life but you can't do anything waiting here on the sidelines and the very last thing from this American woman is that she said

fear and creativity walk hand in hand so you just have to say creativity get in the back seat because me and fear are going on this road trip. That does sound American. Oh, fuck. I said it wrong. Oh. Oh, no. It's okay. Take two. Oh, do you have any tips for the American lady? Yeah, thanks for asking. Oh, am I the American lady?

Yes. Oh, thanks for asking. What, no, I'm asking you. Thank you for asking me, Tessa, and what great student you've been. What beautiful hair you have? May I just say it rained today and then my hair was in a bun and I took it out and I was like, yes. It's really great. Yeah. Is that what the American lady said? Because that is not helpful. And you did get it wrong the first time. I just took it out and I was like, oh yeah, like that.

She said, fear and creativity walk hand in hand. So you just have to say to fear get in the back seat because me and creativity are going on this road trip. You got in the car with fear. Oh, no. Really great. That's great. I think that's a good one to end on.

I hope so. Yeah, excellent. I was going to do it. a quote by Judy Bloom, but I don't think it's as powerful as Ellen and another. Go, give it a go, Judy. Back yourself. Get in a pool. Is Judy Bloom okay? She's already, isn't she? Could be dead. Does anyone know if Judy Blum is dead?

Thank you, Judy. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Judy Bloom. Thank you, love. Author of excellent book. Are you there? Are you there, Margaret? Are you there, God? It's me, Margaret. It's me, God. It's not a respect of the Lord. It's fascinating. Okay. Each of us must

confront our own fears must come face to face with them how we handle our fears will determine where we go with the rest of our lives and to experience adventure or to be to experience adventure or to be limited by the fear of it basically what you were saying before about you don't want to live frightened of fear itself do the thing that's what I'm going to say it's so good yes right what was to say again no the whole quote oh no no what is the last bit boo I like that Eleanor Roosevelt one better Anyway, I hate that one. Oh, Judy, you've let me down. I loved it.

You're there, Judy. It's me, my shit quote. We'll end on that. I think it was so good. It was so good. I loved your quote. But for anyone listening, thank you for listening. And follow us. Oh, yeah, we're going on a break.

Oh, God, I should say this. We're going on a break until September when we are kicking off the new Cizont with a live podcast, another live podcast, can't get enough of them, at the London Podcast Festival on like, I can't remember what day it is, brilliant. Seventh of September.

Could be. So, we don't know what the topic is. It'll be something tasty and spicy, cooking. And, oh, another thing, can I say a little thing for me? Absolutely. So I think this is going out tomorrow. Are you listening on Tuesday? We're all here on Tuesday.

Great being here on Tuesday. I'm doing two, the reason we're going on a break is because I can't do two things at the same time. And I'm doing a show, and I'm doing a preview. and I'm doing a number of preview. Face your fear. And do it anyway. I'm doing it, mate. I'm doing a preview on the 11th of June, which is tomorrow or tonight or yesterday, so you've missed it. And also the 23rd of June of the Lord Stanley, if you want to come and see and support.

Then have a wine. I'll be drunk. And yes, and follow us at Nobody Panic Podcast. Oh, I've got a plug. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I've just thought of one. It's me just thinking you would plug free. No, I've got one.

It just went on sale today. I am doing my... Focket to me. I'm not going... Socket to me, baby. That's my blog that I wanted to do where I take pictures of like fun plug sockets in... So there's one in the curzon and so on it's on the ceiling.

Bit of fun. A bit of fun. National theatre? Uplit. Blot. A bit much. Right, go on. You never did it, but I think you should face your fear in... I wasn't really frightened. I just couldn't be asked.

Yes, I will. I will. Is it lazy or is it fear, Stevie? Oh my God. So true. Can't tell the difference. Right, go on. Plug it. Oh, I'm not going to Edinburgh this year.

If you are going to off to, in August, to Scotland, go and see Stevie. And as much comedy as you can. But I am doing my last year's Edinburgh show at the Soho, the 16th, 17th and 18th of July. If you would like to come, I would love to have you. Which hunt? Yeah. I was going to be like, what? That is the title.

Where? It is a good title. That's so powerful. God, that's cool. It does not live up to its title. No, it does. It's quite fun. Yes, it's excellent.

I'd love to have you. And sincerely, if you came and saw it in previews, I remember saying when I didn't have a show, thank you for coming. And if you'd like to come and see the finished thing and you came in previews, you can come for free. So thank you so, so much for coming. Wow.

I mean, I think you can't make a show without people. I mean, it was so shit when in previews. I didn't see it in previous, but I do remember saying you. But it was bad, Steney. In Edinburgh, about three days in. And she was like, I've written the show now. And it was like, you've done three shows. But yeah, it was great.

They were poor. Great, great ending. Very, very poor. Yeah, thank you. So if you want to come, I'd love to have you in Soho. Shall I do the tweet? I'm ready to the tweets now, yes. Tweet us.

Can you also follow us? Can you also follow us? Because we've got like two followers, nobody fucks me off. Thoughts? Yeah, maybe you know. Maybe you're trying to say it in a more light way. Oh, okay. We've got like two followers.

It fucks me off. No, no, no. I know what you meant. But I refuse. At Nobody Panic Pod. Or me at Stevie MPS. The S is A5. At testicoats, just letters.

Letters. And also email. email us about, because we still are taking suggestions. If you haven't got to yours, we will get to yours in autumn when we come back to it. Email us, nobody panic podcast at a Gmail.com. And yeah, thank you so much for coming.

You were an excellent audience. And thank you so much to the underbelly. And to John, Frida, and to Susan. Jeffrey. Jeffers. Yeah, I got it. And now I'm dead. We really love doing this podcast,

and it means so much that people want to come and see us chat. Thank you. So thank you so much for being. here. And yeah, that's all from us. Thank you so much. Good night. Good night. Bye.