Nobody Panic - How to Poo with The Gut Stuff

Episode Date: May 25, 2021

Can't poo? Poo too much? Refuse to talk about poo and pretend it doesn't happen and refuse to sleep at someone else's house in case you have to poo? The Mac Twins, aka the completely brilliant Alana and Lisa Macfarlane, aka the creators of The Gut Stuff, talk Stevie and Tessa through How to Poo. Busting poo myths, finally explaining what fibre actually is, and championing the perfect world where everyone just calms down and talks about poo. Follow The Gut Stuff on Twitter and Instagram: @thegutstuffFollow The Mac Twins on Twitter and Instagram:@themactwinsCheck out their website: thegutstuff.comBuy the book: The Gut Stuff: An empowering guide to your gut and its microbes.Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Nobody Panic with me, Stevie. Me, Tessa.

And also we have some special guests to talk to us about how to poo. It's only the bloody Mac twins, Lisa and Alana Mack from the gut staff. Hello. Hello. How is your pooing? Pooing, sweet. I'm just trying to think I've had one today yet. I have.

I have. This is great. Sorry. What a strong opener. Yeah. I haven't. Tessa. of you?

Four already. Yeah. Easy. Easily, yeah. This is a very thinly veiled episode to basically just sort out Tess's gut. Basically, each week

we like to learn how to do something and this week we are speaking to two essential gut experts from the got stuff. If you go on their website, The Got Stuff, they launched it in 2017. They just brought a first book,

The Got Stuff. Their Instagram is at the Godstuff. Twitter is at the Godstuff. gut stuff. It's a very strong brand. Strong. Do you want to tell us, tell us a little bit about what the inspiration was behind starting the gut stuff? Can you tell that we got in there quickly before gut health was a big trend? We got in and where they're all the handles. Yeah, so very randomly is how we got into it. So in our past lives, well, and still sort of currently, although we're sort of semi-tired,

we were DJs. So we started off on radio, so we did one extra, we did starting nights and virgin. with our official Love Island DJs, the show that nobody watched. So we're on tour loads and living a very hedonistic lifestyle, as you can imagine. You know, we're actually quite tame for DJs, but couldn't be further from the health and wellness world. We're brought up in working class Scotland, so we've essentially had deep-fried pizza and chips, Greg Softie and Ten Lambert and Butler for lunch. Oh, if I had that, I would not poo for 17 weeks. No fibre there.

Anyway, we had different health pathways grown up, even though. We're 100% identical. We, Alana had arthritis when we're younger. I got really bad acne and our health pathways are totally different. So we volunteered for twin research when we came down. Now, historically, I thought medical research was like students getting paid a grand to take Viagra. Turns out that is a bit more than that. And they used twins loads because we're a great constant for medical studies.

We also didn't get paid. We didn't get paid. We paid them in poo, actually. Yeah. So we, Tim Specter, who heads up the research facility there, who you might have seen in the news quite a lot because he created the COVID symptom study at. And he gets kind of brought out for anything on genetics and nutrition and diet. We volunteered there because you get to find out loads of cool stuff like physiologically what's different between us. So they test your like bone density, your mental dexterity.

It's like a weird twilight. He's got less of mental dexterity. And you know what the test is? They basically get his name animals. And I just went, dog. cat, I'm out. And they were like, okay. And I was like, I'm cooking. And Lisa's was much better, but my bone density was better. So, you know, swings and around the noise. So if you win some, you lose some. Yeah, so long so short,

we were volunteering there for a long time. We loved it. We were like super curious, ask those questions. And the American gut project had just happened. So research into this new thing called the microbiome was starting, this like kind of new medical frontier was starting to take shape. And Tim, Tim, was like, do you guys want to be the first people to take part in this study? And we're like, yeah, sure. What do we have to do? And he was like, okay, you have to send your poo off in the post every day for two months. We're like, fine. You have to have three colonoscopies, which didn't realize what that was until we signed the waiver form. And I was like, oh shit, literally. The doctor

was really hot as well. So when we went for the colonoscopy, I came out and I text him being like, if medical research gets nothing. I just had the camera bum and a man asking me, have I lived in Kentish town that was really hot. like what's going on. Turns out they did and we actually, you guys will know this very well. They asked us for the first month, is there a month of the year where you can only eat processed foods and drink alcohol? We were like, the Edinburgh Festival. So we were doing a show at Edinburgh Festival, like a DJ battle show at Gildiborne

and during the day we're DJing for Tia Maria. So we're having like milk, smoothie, shaky things, which was great for weeks. We were like, we're just drinking cider and eating chips. and then we're like, oh my God, we did not feel well. And then for the second month, they put us on like a kind of Mediterranean diet. And it was to show how nutrition affects your microbiome. Sorry, this is real long winded, but essentially... No, I am captivated.

We have 100% the same DNA, but only 30% the same gut bacteria at any one point, which means that we are microbiome is completely unique. So firstly, we have the same, you know, it's like strangers, basically. And secondly, we can change it. So we're able to change it within a relatively short time frame, and we could change it through diet and nutrition. Three things. And for anyone listening who's like,

what's a microbiome? Give it to me short and hot. We always say, we always say when we started the research, like pretend we're toddlers would say to the scientist, like explain to us. That's way better than saying, give it to me short and hot.

I'm going to start using to give it to me short and hot. Yeah. So the microbiome is basically bacteria, fungi viruses that live in and around and on us. and they play a huge role in all our health, so overall health. But the reason why we talk about it when we talk about gut health is that a lot of it is housed in our large intestine. So we talk about gut health, a lot of the time we are actually talking about our microbiome,

but it's sort of not as catchy. So it's bacteria. It's fungi. It's bits. Yeah, it's bits and bob. Essentially not humans. All the non-human bits of you, like the microbes. And they're actually like we, you know, when we first found out, we were like,

oh my God, wash us. What do you mean? and actually they really you know they do loads and loads and loads of cool jobs and we need them to survive so we need to start looking after that ecosystem and start considering it so all of this stuff you know our previous touch point of nutrition was the cabbage soup diet

pre-magal of 2005 like this was not our world and what we were realising and the scientists the reason we set up the gut stuff was firstly because our pals were like one minute you're interviewing pop stars at the brits for your radio show and the next minute you're at redden university talking about probiotics, what is going on? And we were like, oh, just that gut stuff, just that gut stuff. And now it turns out we're in some sort of SEO heaven because gut health is a big trend. But yeah, so fast forward to now, yeah, we have a big team and we look like this is like full-time

job as well as passion. And yeah, it kind of turned on its head to everything that we thought, you know, where we're from, health is just not being ill and well-being is something that Gwen Paltrow talks about. And I think that to democratise that information and make people see it's not just smoothies and gong baths was probably the thing that kept us up in the morning because the scientists weren't saying take this magic super magic pill that's a trillion pounds from our laboratory. They were saying simple stuff like, you know, up your fibre, chew your food more. What do you guys have done that episode on before? So yeah, we were like, okay, we need to democratise this information because actually the science is complex, but the application could be accessible

for everyone. I think as well, I think, you know, that audience that we were digent to, when we did the Love Island tour, we're very much thinking of their bodies from the outside in rather than the inside out. And we thought, you know, if we can start thinking about, you know, educating that generation on prevention and not all these sort of short fixes, detox, nonsense, lollipop, bloody weight loss, bullshit. We were like, it's so important because not only is this information not true, but it's also can be damaging to that generation and the way that they perceive themselves, but also health, you know, in our, how can we help our healthcare system fundamentally and democratise health across the UK. So from a serious

point, you know, there was there was heart and soul in it. But yeah, essentially we do just talk about poo for a lot of the day. I'm sorry to already come back to microbes. But what you guys are saying is that everybody's are different and everybody's can also be changed. Like whatever you've got now is not just your lot in life. You can totally change what you've got in there. Yeah. That's huge. That's unbelievable. And actually they're not. That's not just, that's what we said. We were like, okay, like, it's a good thing. It's something that is within your control.

And, yeah, we, you know, it's not just diet that affects it. It's lifestyle. So, you know, sleep, a lot of culture. Now we've, well, now currently we do sanitize everything, which is absolutely right and true. And please, you know. But, you know, we've, with antibiotics, over sanitization, more sedentary lifestyle, it means that we've actually lost some of these species

of bacteria forever. So, yeah, let's get back to foraging and kissing your dog. But yeah, there's lots of different things that affect it as well. And actually, it's all the sort of, you know, health and well-being stuff we kind of know that we now have the Y piece from this new science coming out to say why it's actually, you know, could improve our health. When you get those pieces of advice and it's like, you drink more water, eat a balanced

diet and like sleep more, you just want to be like, shut the fuck. Because it's just like, well, why? Like, what does it actually do? Yes, okay, I'll feel slightly better in the morning. I can have a red ball, like, and then I'll be fine. Like, but actually knowing that it's exactly what it's doing to you, I think connects it so much easier. You can be like, great, I'll shit better.

Like, that's, we all want to do that. And I wanted to kind of go sort of back a few steps and just kind of, would you mind explaining like I'm a toddler, like I'm a short and hot toddler, what happened when we poo? So we, you know, we did a previous episode about how to eat healthily, and we, We talked a lot about, you know, like chewing in all of that sort of pre-stuff that kind of breaks the food down. But we didn't talk a lot about when it's in your intestine, what is going on and what happens to make that poo happen. And then we can move on to things like, what does fibre do and all of that.

Yeah. So I think the thing about what we, when we first started the journey, we were like, gut health, you mean like my stomach. And everyone assumes that we did, you know, unless you did a level human biology, that is probably going to the truth. But it's everything from mouth to bum. And as you learned before, there is a lot of different organs at play. So that's at the start of the book, we basically kind of broke it down like it was an orchestra because there's loads as like, you know, the esophagus was an oboe. And you know, the liver, the gallbladder, there's so many different organs involved. Some people are secreting stuff in to help out. So, you know, your food is broken down both physically and chemically and your body is really clever

and it takes what it needs and is useful to it and then it chucks out what it doesn't. And that's like really simply what happens. The reason that sometimes it can get overcomplicated is when people have digestive issues. And they're like, but what is the problem? Either I have diarrhea, I'm shitting too much or I'm constipated. How can I affect those things? And actually the answers aren't just necessarily physical. They're not necessarily.

You know, it's everything that we talked about before as well. And when lifestyle, if you're stressed, the gut brain axis is, you know, your gut brain are intrinsically linked. And I think, you know, there's all these different things that have been potentially overlooked, you know, how you sit. And I'm sure we get onto that, like, how you sit when you poo, etc. And I think going back to like toddler biology

and actually learning how all the different bits and bulbs works, helps you to kind of, yeah, tune in a bit better, I think. Give us a run through of this orchestra of like, let's go through the orchestra of the digestive system, we start in the mouth, we end in the butt, what are we going through?

Okay, so you chew your foods, and it gets put down to your esophagus. And then it's got a bit of a journey. So it goes into your stomach. And essentially liquids get a VIP pass into there. They're like, we're going ahead, guys. We're skipping the queue.

And it gets churned about a bit. Some stuff gets secreted in there. It then goes into your small intestine. That's where most of the nutrients and stuff are absorbed. And then everything that it doesn't want goes into your large intestine, which is where things like fiber are fermented by your gut bacteria. Then it gets pushed out. Do do, do, do.

Tadda, we're ready to come out. And then it's out at the other end. So that's a really simplistic version. Very helpful. Knowing that there's a lot of other bits and bobs and people say to us, oh, I've got stomach pain and they're like pointing down here or somewhere else. And you're like, you know, it might not be that. So yeah, so it's explained a lot more eloquently in the book.

It's beautiful. One thing that everybody says is like the one thing that everyone could do with their diet is more fibre. And there's all different types of fibre. And would you mind just explaining to us like we were told us about what is fiber? What's it doing to your poo? And why do we eat it? Yeah, so when we were first going for the studies, like, fiber was the main thing of the studies. And we were like, what do you mean?

Like, Pringis and Allbrand, like, what? And we used to just like, our grander gym used to say to us, it makes me go. And I was like, sure that's all we knew about fiber. Yeah. So basically the scientific bit is that fiber is the kind of part of the plants that humans can't digest. But our microbes absolutely love it. So it's basically the food for your microbes. Oh, so you like feeding your little stomach garden.

So like, Pets, the pets. Pets. Pets, you've got little pets in that. In my head, the bacteria are like tiny little like cavapoo dogs. Yeah. I think they're a bit more like a rainforest. And the more different species you've got, the better.

So we want that fibre to feed our pets in our rainforest. So they can be healthy and better at. Well, we don't, science is still sort of working out what each bacteria do and why. Okay. So essentially you want to make sure that they're fed. because it makes more favourable environments really want to keep them happy like they're at the party

so you think the bacteria are the party gores and the fibre and prebiotics is like the buffet so people will be happier if we've got booze and booze and you don't know how they're going to behave when they have booze and booze and boffey

also you don't know what party go is like what bits of the buffet they could not like the egg that you've provided bang on. Or the volleyball the volleyball that's why we need to

feed them a variety of different fibres but also a variety of different foods because we don't yet and we can't say you know this specific foods feeds this specific type of bacteria and also the bacteria work differently and with other types of bacteria but also in different humans so it's so complex you've got your own personal party and your own personal buffet going on when you say it softens your stool i think this is where people get confused and by people i mean me so they would say you know it softens your stool and i would mean and people say like a prune would soften your And I was like, right, so is the actual prune going to come out? If your body doesn't really want the prune, but your microbes do, the prune's going

to end up at the end of the process, right? So it basically can be digested by that. Okay. It is, it balks it out. So we think it does just like, bulk. It literally dihidration helps as well. But why do I want a bulky poo? Well, so it comes out.

Ah. Okay. So for me, I never have a problem with anything not coming out. I think that's why I'm like, why do we, why don't want to bulk it out? I'm like, it's already coming. So, okay, so people who it isn't coming out, the prune is like, I'm going, anyone want to come with me, you know? I take it all, bye, guys.

I take it what I'm need and I'm off. He's doing a French exit out of the party. I think as well, like that's probably historically where the confusion's coming in with fibre, because people that, you know, don't have trouble with that are like, oh, well, then I don't have to have fiber. But now we know that not only does it, bulk and soft nurse to go and do all that good stuff, it also feeds the good bacteria. So that's why it's having like it's Craig David resurgence because it's like I'm coming back.

I was having fibre on Monday. Yeah, exactly. I was doing a shit on Tuesday. We all know it. We all know that's shitting on Wednesday on Thursday on Thursday. So you said that there were different types of fibre. So for example, you've got the whole gamut here. You've got me as like, I can't poo. And then you've got Tesla who's like, I can't stop. So would we be focusing on different, using us as like, you know, type A and B, would we be focusing on different types of fibre and what would they be and which one should I specifically need? So historically we thought that there was only two types of fibre, soluble and insoluble fibre. Now we know that there's actually loads more than that. So there's loads different types of dietary fibre. Mother Nature has given us a great buffet.

Thanks, Hen. And, you know, it's just trial and error to see what, you know, what works well with you and what you like. So it comes in, you know, filling your diet with loads of fruit, veg, whole grains, nuts and seeds, to make sure you get a range of different fibres, as we talked about, that variety thing before. By the way, if anyone does have a digestive issue,

they should speak to their GP about fibre, because in general, we say that your average person should be getting 30 grams of fibre a day, which is actually quite a lot when you think a portion of broccoli is only two and a half or an apple's only two and a half. Oh, wow. A lot of fibre to get through. But we will say if anyone does have digestive

issues, it can be different, so speak to their GP or a dietitian. But the hacks that we always use are like, keep your skin on fruit and veg. It's an easy one. Most of the fibre is in the skin. Swapping like white pasta, rice or bread for brown. That'll help you sort of like tip up the scales. And then nuts are a really good source. So like if you snacking, use them, have them instead of packet kettle chips as much as we want those sort of vinegar, those kind of kettle chips, try and go for the nuts. But we thought, we thought, you know, that fibre was just cereal, but it's not. And actually, you know, there's a hierarchy when it comes to fiber counts in fruit and vegas

well, like a Jerusalem artichoke or, you know, chikery are high in fiber. So we've actually got fiber tables on our website, all very excited, where you can see how much fiber is in different types of fruit and veg. Adding lentils into a bolognaise if you want to, like, you know, just... Kidney beans, will that help? Kidney beans, yeah. Kidney beans, all that. All the beans.

All the beans. Do beans make you fart and why? Well, do you want to know the reason that they make you fart? So the fibre, you know the gut bugs at the party, having a good time. The fibre is them secreting gas because they're having a great type. So when you fart, you just go, sorry, that wasn't me, it was my microbes, you know what I'm? I know it's different for everybody, but is there, like, a golden number for how much you should be pooing or when you should be pooing? Well, you know, we actually get asked this a lot, and it's usually in the toilets after gigs.

Like, I haven't pooed for three days. It's that normal. And I'm like, I don't know, is it you're normal? But essentially, you kind of touched before, like, we are all different. And kind of what's normal for one person might be abnormal for another. So we always say that the key is to watch out for changes in your bowel habits and then speak to your GP if you notice changes. So, yeah, I mean, there's that old wife still. It's like, one a day, but that's not necessarily true.

And Alana and I, you know, she's like bang on every morning. You know, it's very indicative of our personality is actually how regular Alan is. and I will love to shop I am. Can I ask a question about bloating? I'm sorry if this is the same thing as them releasing the gas to make the fart. What if you really blow up like a bowling ball big? Say, for example. Say what might be causing that?

So bloating's a tricky one because, and we have a dietitian called Measley who's brilliant, is like a really good article on this on the site, which is great. So bloating is normal. If you've had a big meal, your gut bugs are also having a bit of a party, so they're like, woohoo, thanks for the fibre guys, living at large. But if it starts to become really painful and persistent, then speak to your GP. Culturally, the kind of bloating thing on Instagram and these kind of movements have damaged bloating, because bloating is a result of, you know, if you have a big meal, you may be likely to bloat.

I think it's, I think it has clouded people's vision of when to tune. in if it's painful, if it's keeping you up at night, if it's persistent, then it's probably an issue. But, you know, this, these before and after pictures are bloating is just not the one. Yeah, the before and after thing is, is definitely what led me to be like, because I saw some pictures that were like, you know, this is, I used to look like this every, and I sort of looked and I was like, oh, do we not all, do we not all look like that or, you know, is that not a thing? And so you're right that the scene that on Instagram is what makes me think like, and is that not normal. But to know that it is, is sort of calm down a bit. And also you're physically putting

stuff into your body. Like it's like, I think when you, it's always, always in what we've seen, it's when you bring aesthetics into it. It's when it clouds it. Because, you know, if you feel uncomfortable and it's sore, then yes, go and speak to your GP. If you don't like the fact that your stomach's, you know, protruding a little bit after a meal, then that's something quite different. And I think they've been blurred. You're so right. I do often look at my plate and I'm like, that's in me. Like I've been a massive meal, like loads of water,

loads of wine or like loads of ice cream. You know like, what do I feel unworth? Like all the things that are on the table are in my body now. Exactly. In my body. And as well,

when you see everything that it does, like your gut does from start to finish, you're like, my God, that's amazing. My body's amazing. There's a lot of work. It's amazing. It's hard at work. I think it's so sad that it is a sort of like,

oh, we don't talk about it and pooing so embarrassing and like, you know, we don't, it's hush, hush, very rude. Be like, everyone does it every day. And also it's a miracle. It's unbelievable that what your body gets up to. This is what we always say, like, when we do talks and stuff, doesn't matter where we do them.

We're like, you know, it's the one thing apart from eating and dying that we all do. Do you know what I mean? Pretty much. And then you've got to think about like when they're babies, when we're babies or when there are babies. We talk about their poo all time. Oh my God, it's green, it's yellow, it's black. Oh, God, they've done two today.

We do it with puppies. Kids talk about poo all the time. And it's like, what age? did we stop being so open about it? Because it is so important and we all do it. It's hard as well because it's obviously a poo-to-boot and I think we're getting there with things like periods and sex and I think poo is the next one.

This kind of sliding the scale of importance for it, you know, at best it's quite funny. I personally think it's quite a funny conversation. And at worst, you know, it could be an indication of, you know, we work a lot with, you know, bowel cancer research charities and stuff at that and it could be an indication of something going on. So I think that's sliding scale of something that it's important we talk about it at all ends because you know that's quite funny and also we should be looking at and tuning into our poos because it can it can be a serious thing.

But also like yeah, I grew up in a like my mum who listens and will be definitely listening to this. Didn't really say the word like we didn't really talk about like yet you said like I'm going to like and also she's not like a Victorian woman like she's really sure that about literally everything. That's why it was so marked that you didn't. didn't say poo, you said you were going to the bathroom or merely the table. Didn't even say that you go to the toilet. And now me and my sister have like tried to normalise it by just like shouting poo at her all the time, talking about farting, trying to like gross her out so that she feels more like, but because I remember when I learned, because I've like, IBS. I think most

people have IBAS. But I feel like if we know that your brain is sort of linked to your stomach and it's all linked, then if you can't say it, then that's probably not. helpful for you to be doing it as well. Like if your break on even verbalise the word poo. Totally. And people holding on as well. Like, you know, we've all been there. We've been desperate to go, but you know, you've just slipped over at someone's house for the first time. And, you know, how wee poo is like important, but it's also overlooked. And I think that, as you say, like psychologically, you know, we've stopped that in our heads. And I think the gut brain access is so interesting for loads of different reasons.

but they're connected in so many ways. Like they're connected by a thing called the Vegas nerve, which is unfortunately nothing to do with Las Vegas. I was going to say, it's the party nerve. Yeah, it's the party nerve, which is a physical thing, but also with neurotransmitters. So if you think like the vagus nerve is like your phone line and the neuros transmitters are like WhatsApp.

So that's like serotonin, GABA, like all of these hormones that determine how we feel. And then the physical one where it's like, you know, we've always kind of known that we see the person you fancy get butterflies in your stomach. actually we realise that that's two-way system. So if you have something gone on your stomach, it's direct these signals travel up the way as well to your brain.

So, you know, the research is all really new and exciting. And I think, as you say, I think there are a lot more intrinsically linked, you know, even anecdotally as we all talk about it, you're like, oh yeah, you know, scientifically we now know why those connections are there. That's so interesting. May I ask a very specific question about periods? Why do you get a bad stomach when you're on your period? Do you know this is like apart from alcohol, which is always our go-to with the scientists, this was one of the second ones.

Yeah. Why, when we get a period, when I have my period, do I have diarrhea? I actually added this chapter to the book quite last minute because I was like, we need to put that in. So essentially period put is a thing, right? And I think we've all kind of known it. So basically our hormones can speed up or slow down our bowel movements. And the microbes in our guts, the clara guys we were talking about, also help break down and get rid of hormones. So hormones can affect basically how you go, but also your microbes are quite heavily involved.

So there's kind of, again, like the fibre is like a double-pronged thing. So is that like the party guests are too busy dealing with like the really drunk people so that they're not actually focused on the party as much? Yeah, or they're having to break up fights at the party. So they can't party as hard as they once could. Yeah. That's why, you know, there's quite a lot of like, between obviously like pregnancy and menopause

and it's all to do with the way that the hormones interact with our microbes. And also the pill, like I think for a lot of reasons, you know, the long term effects of it have been overlooked for a long time. Like things like that. It's like from a very young age as women we are affecting and influence

in our hormones. And I think that periods is a way that punctuates that because it comes every month and we now track them on apps and such. But I think there's definitely like and anecdotally it is the thing that we get asked a lot about on Instagram. I'm like, I can't pull and I'm doing my period. That is so good though. That's because I remember I just thought it was me being weird for

ages and then it was only when you start talking like, do you all? So they're like, yeah. You're like, oh, my God. I don't feel so mad. Yeah. Yeah. We're really lucky actually with Instagram that people are so open with us on DMs and we used to historically do events, remember them, I think of the past. And then, you know, just how open and honest. people were was just like amazing and I think it just encouraged us as founders to be really bold

with everything that we did and to talk about everything Open the poo to boo floodgates we actually did if you've been in South London recently we did a big poster campaign with poos all over bus stops in South West West London

and yeah so real mention I was like I'm a poo nanny today and we had like different names for poos and yeah I'll send you actually the spreadsheet of the poo names because it went around all of the creative team and it was essentially just a spreadsheet of poo names and I was just like I had to highlight the different poo names

to sign off before we sent it to JC DeC Decoe who ran it and put it on bus stops and I was just like this is my job now I'm actually highlighting poo names in yellow to go on bus stops. If you've not, if anyone listening hasn't seen them they are a sort of beautiful shade of pink and all of the poos look a bit like a balloon or a cloud

or they don't look like a poo. Condom. A condom, yeah, yeah. They look like exactly right. They look like a shaped condom. But it is nice and it is. So it's a bit like how only like so recently there was like a period, a sanitary advert that had like some blood in it as opposed to like a blue blue water or whatever. They are like, yeah, okay, let's be, let's be real.

Let's start talking about all this stuff. If we keep sort of, you know, being like, oh, we don't just don't mention it. Like it's so important. Yeah, because I think we tend to like dodge it. or patronise people and make it really kiddie. So like poop. Do you look at your poop, like something like that? Yeah. Everybody poops.

Yeah. And, you know, it's just like, let's just call it what it is. Just wanted to know your opinions on pooing stools and raising yourself up and squatting for pooing and pooing positions. Good question. The position. That we didn't really know what was. The position.

We made an infographic on this actually and laughed quite a lot when our designer was making it. she was like, what is this? I was like, it's important. So just this is how I would like to look. Put it in. So basically a Western toilet. Well, you know, toilets to typically mean that your knees are at a 45 degree angle rather than 90, which, and I want to get technically. Basically, your pupil rectalus muscle, and that's how you say it, contracts, which squeezes your bum or your rectum tight, making it evacuation difficult, shall we say.

On top of this, if you start straining, then you will put like unnecessarily pressure on your pelvic floor. So basically if you squat with your feet on like a kind of 20 to 30 centimeter high step when you use your toilet, it relaxes that muscle, which allows your rectum to open properly, making it easier for evacuation. And you can just use like the yellow pages, services. Yeah, pile of books. Just use a pile of books. Yeah, on our website, actually, the infographic in question, when you see it like that,

it looks like a sort of like, I don't know, like a lassoe or a kink or something. I don't know, like what it looks like. Well, you can see it visually. You're like, oh, yeah, that makes for good. described as like a kink in a hose, like a garden hose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think as well as you said before, it's kind of like when you anchor it in like what's happening physically

or what, you know, the bit of science behind it, you're like, okay, I get it. But also it might not be, you know, it's not a solution or a magic pill. It's like if you try that and it makes sure it bit better and your poo comes out the way you want it to, great, if you don't, you know, carry on. It's like, we have got a binary relationship with it.

I wanted to ask as well, you know, there's a lot of like, Colonic irrigation is like a cool vibe, but lots of people are like, oh, I get a colonic irrigation. I've never had it, but sometimes I really want to as somebody who has constipation. Then I learned that it might flush out all of your microbiome and be bad for that. Is that the case? Yeah, it is. Unfortunately. But I can see how it's an attractive proposition. Like, if you're feeling like bum bunged up and as a short term solution getting everything out, you know, I can see how the short term relief could be quite appealing to people. but your gut, unfortunately, isn't dirty and doesn't need to be washed. And I think some, basically there's no evidence behind their efficacy,

despite some claims that you might read. But it's actually the thing that causes the biggest beef on Instagram when we say, because we've got a thing called the bullshit in, which we put something different in every Wednesday. So our followers ask us to put something in the bullshit in, and we go back to our team and say, you know, is this bullshit or is it not? And actually, the thing that I first is. most interested about that is actually the contraindications to doing it, like infections and stuff,

outweigh, obviously, of course, the short-term relief. And I think, you know, it just kind of speaks to the bigger problem we have of a solution, magic pill, stuff needs to come out, restriction, don't have daily gluten, fun, wine, everything. Rather than actually, let's tune in to these amazing bodies that do stuff for us and get all that stuff out in their own time and tune in as to why you might not be happy with that or have a better relationship or with it or tune in. It's like treating the symptom rather than the actual cause of the problem. You're never going to improve if you just keep washing your intestine. And they're like, well, it's not working.

It's like, well, no, it's not going to. With alcohol, you've mentioned it like a few times. We've actually asked you the question. Like, how does alcohol kind of interact with pooing? And what should we be doing? How can we look at that balance better? It's not sexy, but it is like basically alcohol can affect the permeability of your gut lining, right? So that's one thing. Oh, we actually have the liver

specialist from UCL who basically every January and dry January gets rolled out into every business article. But he did the chapter on us for the book and we have like an Instagram live for an hour and a half where I ask him every question that's still on our Instagram. And we always thought like when we're hung over it's because we were dehydrated. Turns out that's not the reason. You know, there is some things to suggest. So red wine is high in polyphenols, which your gut bacteria love. But, you know, it's like coffee is full of high in polyphenols as well. Like the kind of alcohol and caffeine bits of it, you know, it's like that weighing it up of yes, it's high in polyphenols, but you could get your polyphenols from elsewhere instead of

having alcohol. But we, and we all metabolize alcohol differently. So the amount of alcohol that you have will have a different effect on everyone else. Like the kind of stuff that we know, And I guess like, you know, you eat highly processed food, perhaps more like us. We have a McDonald's at 3 a.m. if you've been drinking alcohol. So sometimes it's not just, it's difficult to determine if it's the alcohol having an effect on your gut or if it's been out till 3am and all the other stuff. Yeah, obviously you don't drink, you often don't drink water. I'm like, drink a glass of water for every time. It's like, no one does that when they're actually drinking wine because you're drunk.

So a soap beat you would do that. But drunk you, it's like, bark water. There's actually an amazing book called Drink by Dr. David Nutt. about the psychology and physiology of alcohol. And I actually gave up for like the first 70, seven days of the year, just because we'll know that's having any fun anyway, let's face it. And it was really interesting when I went back, the changes in my body to drink in, changing my body,

the changes in my behaviour. And that book's quite good at just laying down the law. And he actually studies, you know, he's like a scientist that studies alcohol, but also he owns a wine shop with his daughter. So it's just like a really beautifully balanced book where it's like, this is the science, but you make your own choices.

I think for me as well, like, as with everything, gut stuff related, you know, if I had a red wine in front of me and a white wine and I knew I wanted to drink one of them, or both perhaps,

I'll probably go for the red wine more now because it's high in polyphenols. Do you know what I mean? And I think that's, it's the same with everything to do with gut help, you know, with the gut stuff, we're not here to preach and be like, right, you've got to have this every day

and not have that. It's about here's the facts. Here's what you can do. Here's the top tips. that we give empower yourself and go do it. Whether you take that information on board or not is, you know, is entirely your choice. But I think that's a lot of what happens in the health and wellness world

and what we've seen it coming from, a complete different point of view is like, you must do this, you must do exactly what I did, standing on my head, drinking green smoothies and only having water at five o'clock in a Thursday, you know, when the sunshine in. And it's like, you know, it doesn't, you know, science is complex enough.

Let's, you know, empower people with the facts. And then you can make your own choices off the back of that. because, you know, if Lisa and I can't be sold the same diet with 100% the same DNA, then no one can. It shines a light on how superficial all the sort of wellness industry is of the like, you know, the flat tammy teas and the, you know, the lobby pops and all of this, the sort of nonsense of being like, look what worked for me. It's like, it's sort of irrelevant what worked for you because you have a totally different

set of bacteria and a totally different body and a totally different lifestyle. And so it's like there is no, there is no thing. And there is anyone who tries to sell you on this. Like, it works for everyone or whatever. is like that inherently is a lie and a con. And you understand how it happens because we're all desperate for it to be a quick fit. For magic pill. Rather than it to be like, you need to drink eight litres of water and go to bed.

And we're like, no. Boring. I think as well, I think, you know, I think that's why gut health, you're starting to hear a lot about it, more about it now. But before, you know, we started the research in 2015 and, you know, we've seen this sort of rise. I think because it's been hard to commercialise because it isn't a one-size-fits-all product or model or service. I think that's why it hasn't come into public consciousness yet. And that makes us angry because we're like, well, people should still know, even if they don't want to buy something off the back of it. They still need to know how important it is and how much it's

linked to so many different health outcomes. We just watch out from the rooftops how important gut health is and those microbes are little pets. They are our little pets, our little family that's living in our little stomach. Do you have any more questions? I have a million, but I'm also, but I'm also aware that I tell you where I'm going to find. I'm going to find. the answers in your new book, The Gutstuff, and on your website, The Gutstuff, and on your Instagram, the gut stuff, and on your Twitter, the gust up. The book is out now. It's out there. It's in all good bookstores. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to buy it and I'm going to, I think I'm going to devour it, basically. It's just so nice to have these really big ideas condensed into a sort of fun and

accessible way. And I think you guys are really opening the door for everyone to be, like saying, democratising something that used to be a sort of million dollar industry and only some people were allowed in, and be like, everyone should be allowed in. Everyone's got a gut. Thank you so much for coming on and talking poo with us. And everybody listening, go and Google the gut stuff and find all their stuff. Read up, get to know your guts.

Get to know your gut. And please do, if you have any topics that you want us to tackle in the future, tweet us at Nobody PanicPod or the email address, Tessa, is. Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com. Have a lovely gut healthy week. Eat some fiber. Look at your poo. Have a gut day.

Have a gut day. Have a gut day. Party with your microbiome. And we will see you next week. And thank you so, so much. Thank you so much. Alana and please have been just the nicest guests we've ever heard of. Thank you for having us.

See you next week, everybody. Bye-bye.