Nobody Panic - How to Put Down Your Phone

Episode Date: September 29, 2020

Constantly glued to your phone? Accidentally lost a whole day scrolling through pictures of seals? Stevie (ex-phone addict currently in recovery) and Tessa (techniques for not becoming reliant on hers include having it run over by a car) trawl through various ways to keep your screen time down and get you analogue again.Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. nobody panic. Where did you download this from? Your phone, did you? Oh, get it in the bin. Get out of it. Put this podcast in the, but listen to the full

episode first so we get the download. Love that. M. M. M. Maw. We got it. We got to take the mummois from you. And then pop it straight in the bin. And this is the paradox. I'm Stevie. My name is Stevie Martin. Do you want to announce that you're an addict so I can clap you? My name's Stevie Martin and I'm addicted to my phone. Welcome, Stevie. Now you. My name is Tessa and I am semi-addicted to my phone. You're just as addicted to your phone.

You can't be a bit pregnant. Check your daily average screen time and if it's above like two hours you're addicted to your phone. Oh, actually that is a good point. What is your daily average? I don't know. You keep saying that, but how do I know? Okay. Have you got an iPhone?

Have I got an iPhone? Well, some people might have Android. And also, your phone had run over by a car last week. How dare you come back to me like that? Sorry, sorry. I'm so sorry, of course. I could be using absolutely anything. I could be using a landline. A quill.

For those listening at home, I got one of those electric zoom or jump bikes, whatever, was merrily going along. My phone was going clang, clang, clang, clang, clang in the basket. and I in my and my instinct was like you should move that but I didn't obviously then I ran a red light I didn't really understand what was if I was allowed but I did it then I could tell there was an energy in the cars behind me that were like oh god then I hit a speed bump quite hard the phone flew out of the basket considerably above my head smashed back down to the floor I was like oh no tried to get my phone and then they tried to move my bike off so I could go around as I went to get it

run over it. Yeah, it's very hard that, isn't it? Yeah, but it's since being repaired by a man in a back alley for me for 20 pounds, so listen. Great. Okay, my screen time. Yes, you know where you can search? Yep.

If you search two words, screen space time. Okay. It will tell you how long you've done today, but it will also tell you your average. Okay, this is fun. Yeah, you're disappointed, Steve, I haven't actually turned it on. So you'll never, you won't know. till. Okay, well, mine is...

Zero minutes, so that's pretty good, isn't it? Okay, fine. I hate that. Mine's normally around five hours. And then when it's... During it over lockdown, it moved to... 22? Seven hours.

There's a huge conspiracy because I looked at what the average person in the UK's daily average, to see what averages in that screen time was. They reckon... Let me just find out who they is before I just... Because I'm just contributing to... the fake news. Oh, there we go, look, it's a bullshit survey. Code Computer Love, who are they?

Who are they? Did you ask? Just everyone in the office? Who's that? Yeah, there's three people. They said, in the 16 to 24 age group, the average screen time is four hours. Are you having a laugh?

What that highlights is is that you actually can't access the information, as in I would like to know genuinely what people's average screen time is, but you can't access that information, obviously, because it's very personal data, Sure. Essentially, I've wanted to do how to go off the phone for a long time. But then Tesla quite rightly was like, well, you won't. It was like, okay, yeah, fair enough.

But I really feel we might be able to actually do it this time. Look, I'll talk you through some of my things. We've got an email. How to Stop Picking Up Your Phone was the subject line. My interest was piqued. Stevie from her phone said, hello, yes. Hello to you, Juliet. Juliet said, I was wondering if you could do an episode and how to stop being addicted to your phone slash social media. I feel like I've grown up in a generation where it's the norm to be on your phone 24-7. It's such a hard habit to bite. Give Juliet a bit of a panache in her email.

Sorry. I was wondering if you could do an episode on how to stop being addicted to your phone slash social media. I feel like I've grown up in a generation where it's the norm to be on your phone 24-7. And it's such a hard habit to break, especially now since everything is online, it's even harder to distance yourself from your phone. Oh, Lordy, I feel like I'd have so much free time and be happier if I could stop picking up my phone every five minutes. Thank you, Julia. P.S. I love the podcast. Yeah. Immediately, straight off the bat, unfortunately, phones are billion, multi-billion dollar industries,

and the entire of the world is moving towards being on your phone. So it's very, very difficult, and I don't think the aim of this podcast is to stop everyone being on their phone. Otherwise, I mean, go and be an isolated tomato farmer in the countryside regions of France. Sure. But, like, if you have a job and you are living in a city, or you're just, you know, you want to talk to your friends. Like everything is now moved on to, you now need a phone for that.

So it's very, very difficult. And it's very unfair. It's like one of those things where, you know, like you sometimes read stuff about, I don't know, recycling or like plastic use is a perfect example. Whereas like they made all this plastic, made it completely indispensable to our lives. And it's now like, by the way, it's quite bad. You just stop me using it. You like, how? Like everything is made of plastic.

You assholes. You can't like create a world. But also like everything's on there. Like it's got a compass, it's got a torch, it's got a spirit level. I'm at Grandma's house, and the other night, we were, it was dark. I was helping Grandma up the outside. Listen, and not important. It was dark. I was hoisting Grandma up the outside wall of the house. Grandma, listen, Grandma is a liability.

And every time you leave her, she's just off climbing something or getting on something. She says, I'm just going to go get this apple. And then off she is, like, up the tree. I'm like, oh, grandma. Anyway, she was like, come and help me with the pond. And then I was like, yeah, it's pitch black. And then she was like, and I was like, I've got a torch. And then she was like, well done.

Where did you, where was that in your bag? And I was like, it's my phone, obviously. Like, it's got all these things. We're completely, of course, we're addicted to them. It's got, it's a bloody Swiss army knife. I sent with, ironically, that's the only thing you can't have is a knife. Exactly what you're saying about the plastic. Like, it's not enough just someone to be like, don't do the plastic.

You're like, it's everything, the light touches. Simba is plastic. You can't just tell me... You can't just tell me not to. That bit in the Lion King, he's pointing at some top of where if you squeat. If you really look, he's saying...

The economy is unsustainable, Simba. We must reduce our plastic. Where will we put the plastic? It won't biodegrade. It can't, but for thousands of years. We're absolutely fucked, Simba. It's actually, if you really slow down the Disney movie, that's what it's saying.

It's a fable about plastic. and phones. So before we get on to phones, because what I will say is there is hope you can use it a bit less. That is genuinely within everyone's reach and I've been trying. That's within reach.

And I've succeeded. It's a long old journey but also it can be quite harrowing because you have to face up to how much you're actually using it and I didn't enjoy that stage. So before we do that, what's your adult thing

that you've done this week? Tessa Coates. Two tiny things. One is just a quick update on the book, Nook. had a couple of... We should refresh people? I shan't. If you're not following the whole series, I can't help you.

Tesla was explained to me what a book nook was. They keep being advertised for on Instagram. It's essentially a diorama, but I didn't know that word. It's like a little thing that you look into a book and it looks like you're looking into a street through the book as if you've like poked through a little hole in the bookcase. And it could be like diagonally or another thing. and she decided not to buy one because I like 100 of you quid.

She was going to make one. I said, oh, maybe buy one. She's tried to make one. A disaster. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. You have to wire it with these miniature electrics. There's like a forum. I'm on various forums about making dolls houses.

I don't know what the fuck I'm doing, Steve. I've got to stop. But I have had various messages from other people on Instagram saying like, book nook, exclamation mark. And they too are being targeted them in their stories. So I'm glad I'm not alone. The second thing is, for those following my saga with British Gas Oh my God, okay, I didn't realise that would be coming back.

Yes, it's coming back. Listen, you've got to have a payoff for fans. For fans. For a quick refresh, she called Bush's Gas. That was it. What you... Previously, on Nobody Panic. We need that.

Tesla called Nobody... Tessa called Nobody Panic. Tesla called British Gas who've been hounding me for eight months with debt collection emails saying I owe them this money and I don't, but I've just not done anything about it. Anyway, I rang them. Stevie, not only did I not owe them the money,

they owed me 110 pounds. It's always worth calling British gas. And being prepared, they were like, so that's me, absolutely buzzing. Mine's also previously on Nobody Panic. So about, I'd say, four months ago, my adult thing was I bought a steamer, like a clothes steamer for like 30 quid.

And I was like, so now it's just there. and I haven't obviously needed to use it because I haven't left the house and when I have left the house I've not been wearing anything that needs ironing I've been wearing like absolute shocking my old rags

and the other day I was doing a job and I had to wear a sort of a nice top and there was a top that I wanted to wear and I was like oh but it looks really creased and I don't have time to hang it up next to the shower for two days oh well and then thought hang on it's a job for the steamer

oh my god It's an absolute dream. It just about three minutes to do. Hang it up. You rub it on your clothes, essentially. Drops out. And then you look like a proper person with clothes on rather than someone that's just pick the things off off of the floor.

That's a nice one. That's really professional. Three pretty good ones and they're all part of an ongoing saga. That's nice, isn't it? Should you get into the phone business? But it's that like, okay, I'm really, okay, here we go. We've got to, come on.

Right. So even though Juliet did say phone addiction slash social media addiction, we can't tackle those both things in one. Like, you just can't. So it has to be phone. Well, okay, we can. But social media addiction is very different to being addicted to your phone. But they also are as well one of the same. Well, what are you addicted to on your phone if it's not?

I mean, we literally just listed a million things. I'm addicted to the spirit level. I'm not. I think I think the thing. thing is that when you're on there, you just, you stay on there. So like you finish Twitter, then you go on Instagram, then you go on LinkedIn, then you go on wherever you go next, then you check your emails, by which point you're like, I wonder what's happening on Twitter, and then round you go. Yes. And that has, that used to be the case. I remember like,

when Facebook first started, very old, didn't have a smartphone, that would be the case with, like on my laptop, but with Facebook and everyone would say, isn't it funny? You like check Facebook? and then you're like go and do something else and then by the time you've done something else you're like oh i'll just check facebook again but now there's more things to check so you can legitimately spend the entire day just going around in a circle because the circle gets wider doesn't it now like effing ticot's involved yeah then you check your tick to your your your whatever emails you're what's app check your spirit level then a WhatsApp the guardian website and round and round and round and round and round and round you go so it's not just so even when so I have um gone through periods of time where I've been like I'm not going to scroll on

social media. I do need to post because we do a pod. I do two podcasts and things, things, my Twitch thing. So I do have to go on, um, on, uh, social media, even when I'm trying not to actually actively go on it and scroll and whatever. But, uh, even then, I still manage to clock up ridiculous phone time because I'll just then, because I'm not scrolling on social media, I'll end up just scrolling on news sites or, you know, scrolling, scrolling down my emails, just looking at like, oh, I'll gossip email me. Well, but I need some content. Yeah, it's, it's also like, it's just so badly affecting our short-term memory, like, in a really, really intense way. That's both, both active. It's like that sort of like, oh, I don't need to remember

that day, because I've written it down. It's in my WhatsApp somewhere. I'll go and find it when I need. I don't need to remember the address. I don't need to remember the bus where I get off. So partly it's active and then partly it's deeply, deeply subconscious that we actually just like, we get so distracted. Like the other day I saw something on Twitter and was like, oh my goodness, I must book that running course that I want to do. Went to write it down on my notes app,

opened my notes app, saw something else in there that I hadn't done, completely forgot the running thing. And I just, it was maybe seven seconds later. And I just stared at the blank page and I was like, come on, come on, what are we here for? There was an article I read about a while ago. It was just sort of like an in-depth look, by a psychologist about fans, obviously.

But it was much less analytical. It was more, it was very, it was very good, because basically he broke down exactly how your brain works and our brains are incredibly clever and they are wired for the path of least resistance. They're wired, our brains are constantly trying to help us. So that's why we talk quite a lot on this podcast about things like, for example, you know, why is my jealousy out of control?

It's like, well, that's actually a very helpful function, but your brain is just got too helpful because it's trying to show you the thing that you really want to do by being like, look, you feel shit about that because you want to do it, see? And then you're like, oh, shut up, brain. You're horrible. And it's like, no, I'm just trying to help.

And this is what your brain is doing with your phone because it sees, oh, well, Stevie's got another brain, Steve's got another brain that retains stuff that has everything. So Steve doesn't need me to do that. So that's why that's a conscious level is not happening anymore, that why we are unable to retain facts like we used to do, we're not able to, because our brain is like, oh, it's okay because she's got Google. That's essentially what our brains are doing. And also as well, the other thing

which really freaks me out is that our brains are designed to have periods of downtime where we're literally not thinking about stuff. And if you think about time, some of you won't have this, but if you're a little bit older, you will have had a significant period of your life without a smartphone. And you might be like, what did I do? Like, what did I do in those moments where it was like, in between watching TV and like my food being ready. Did I just sit and stare at the wall? Like I don't understand what I was doing because now every single time you have a break,

well I do, I'll just, I'll scroll. There's something to do in every moment. And apparently that's incredibly dangerous because what your brain is supposed to be doing is your brain is supposed to be formulating thoughts, organising things and basically taking stock of what has just happened. So if your brain isn't able to do that,

it doesn't take stock of just happened, which means, sorry, that was all over the place, which is why then often you'll find that you'll look back on your day and be like, what did I do? I have no idea what I did. And it's because your brain hasn't formulated that memory because it's just gone straight to something else. So it's incredibly damaging. But the thing is that we all know this, I don't want to frighten people. But it's so bad for us.

Or it's rather than being bad, it's just changing us completely because it's not going to go away. So we are all going to change. And our brains have already changed now. And it's too late to go back. but we can definitely try to stop as much. And I think it's the passive use of the phone that has to stop. That's the thing that everyone kind of agrees. If you need to go on there because you need to contact somebody,

you need to WhatsApp somebody about work, you do need to check your emails because, I don't know, well, particularly in our jobs, if you don't check your emails, then you often miss out on jobs. Like I do voiceovers and my voiceover agent literally messages me, sometimes two hours before a job, and if I don't message back, I lose the money and I lose the job.

So I'm constantly, I have to have my specific notifications going, but I don't have to have all of them. So that's the first tip is that get rid of all of the push notifications on every single app that you have that isn't necessary. So I have like WhatsApp and I have email. That's it. I don't have Twitter. So I have to go on those apps to check them.

And it doesn't make a huge difference, but it kind of does when you, because your phone doesn't go, anymore. I'm still reeling about the second brain thing, so that is, that is bad. That is bad. And that we aren't prepared to be alone, we aren't just prepared to sit for even a second with our thoughts, or just to like, just to sit with nothing. We're just like, quick, quick, quick, now what will I, how will I stimulate? Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. Constant, stimuler. And I think we need to probably address, like, where that's coming from. The brain thing, it's sometimes called the smoke detector effect

when your brain does something it's designed for but it has like a side effect so for example but it but it's the brain tolerates it because so for example a smoke detector is extremely highly sensitive and the side effect is that therefore sometimes it goes off in the middle of the night

by accident or it goes off when you're making toast but you tolerate that because better that it's too sensitive and it wakes you up when there's a fire so you tolerate it going off for the smoke thing and that's sometimes what the brain does is it's like well it's not designed for this, but it's over-sensitive or it's over-compensated itself. And so it's, and you've put it in an environment where it's not, you know, it's doing its job too, too well because it thinks there's a second prey. Right. Yes. Yes. The notification thing is

so important. It's taking away, it's making an active choice to not be a passive scroller who just like automatically picks up their phone. And a big part of that passive thing is therefore having that when you look at your phone there's nothing there's nothing enticing you in you have to make the choice then to go in but if you're constantly being like if it's constantly saying like hello do you want to look at me hello hello there's a notification

hello there's a message hello hello come out here you then of course you'll be you'll be drawn into it but the more that you can be like no thank you I actually deleted Instagram and Twitter the other day I had a glass of rosé with a friend of the podcast Emma City I just picked up my phone and I and they were gone and obviously

they're all still there. I've just deleted the app. You can go on Safari. I can go on Safari. I can do, I can listen. Don't think I haven't been in, but I have deleted the apps.

And it is mind-blowing. In the next, first day I felt very, very free and very, very good doing it. But in the next couple of days, the amount of times I picked up my phone, opened it, remembered I didn't have the app,

put it down, like the instinct in your brain to just constantly pick up this phone and see like, is there, watch, I'll go in there. And then to open the phone and see that, you know, there is nothing but the spirit level.

I can't do anything on this phone. You know, it does make you realize, I think, when they're gone, just how passively dependent you are on them and how often you pick them up without even actively thinking it, you just think, like, your instinct is like, oh, it's downtime, I'll just pick that up. Oh, I'm on the bus, I'll pick up my phone. Oh, I'm sat down, I'll pick up my phone. Yes, and the, I think the biggest, like with most things that we say,

you've got to know what the problem is before you can solve it. So if you don't have your screen time on, you should probably put your screen time on so that it can measure it because that is actually incredibly helpful. It's like not checking your bank balance and then being like, why am I broke? You're like, well, that was. Because you knew it was bad. Because you were frightened of it being bad. And it's very frightening looking at your screen time because it's always higher than you think.

And when you actually think hour to hour, even like me saying, you know, five hours, that's okay. when you think about how long five hours is, that's a long time. Yeah, you need to be able to sort of chart the damage before you can kind of see what sort of problem is. And also, everybody uses their phone in different ways, but we're all doing the same sort of thing. So what's fascinating I've found is that when you talk to someone, like you just said, Tesla, and I'll say all the time,

we will rattle off sort of things we've done to try to stop. And when you break down those things, that's like, it's addict behavior. It's like, oh, it's in the other room. I have to put it in the other room. If you replace that with, like, alcohol, like, so I don't have the bottles in the house. I'll put them in a cupboard so you can't see them.

If somebody said to you, I, I try not, I don't open it, but I do sleep with the bottle in the bed. And I touch it as soon as I wake up, and it's the last thing I touch before I go to sleep. And I keep it with me just for safety. And I try not to look at it in the day, but it is with me every single second. Yeah.

you're like, uh-huh, okay, okay. Like, and that's what we're all doing and we're all just being like, that's fine. That's absolutely fine. And Juliet hits on the reason why is because it's socially acceptable. This is the acceptable addiction to have. So you, everyone around you is using it. Everyone around you, everyone goes, oh, yeah, I use my phone too much. Everyone does.

So you feel that you are the same. I remember I was talking to somebody about, my therapist, about like, body image and things like that. And she was like, she said just because most women don't understand what like struggle with their own image doesn't mean it's normal and you should accept it. It means that you have to then fight even harder because now all, you know, if you're saying all, all your friends have have the same thing that you feel sometimes doesn't mean it's right. And this is exactly the same as with the phone. Just because like an entire population of people are going like, yes, I'm addicted. Doesn't mean we should all be like, oh, cool, I'll just lean into it.

Just because all the lads in the opioid dens, you know, in the 18th century, you're like, oh, dreadfully addicted to opioids. Everyone was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Pass me the poppy. Yeah, yes, please. Or like, you know, the arsenic factories where everyone was like, you know, glowing green from arsenic. And then their skin was dropping off. I was like, oh, addicted to arsenic. Yeah, yeah.

Well, I try and do as little arsenic as I can. But, yeah, it doesn't make it. Just because everyone's doing it doesn't make it any better. It just means that they'll look back in, possibly a not too distant future and be like this whole generation, were completely addicted to something and everybody knew and everyone knew it was bad but the addiction was too was too big and it was so socially acceptable that that it just because it was just the norm that was it was it was expected that everyone on the bus would just be looking would be on their phone and if you were at work and then you was expected that a lunch break or something everyone would

just be eating but also be on there be also just staring at a piece of glass yeah and and that's the thing that's the way of doing that's what I found very helpful is I've identified the times I go on my phone like purely passively so my friend the other day was like I started using the phone my phone like on the loo and I've been like I've only just stopped

for years mate so that's I don't do that now which the first few times you're just sort of staring and having a way it's weird which is terrifying but that's weird that's something and I've just thought I'm going to bring back the toilet book stack

that's what I'm going to do because I've just been staring at the wall being like That's weird. Great, great, great. So replacement addiction, very important. Yes, because this is something. Wanted a cigarette? Have an orange.

You want your phone on the toilet. Read a humorous, small book. Small book. Read an orange. Have an orange. Have an orange. Why not? Do whatever you need.

The other thing was, and I spoke about this before, is the point when I was like, oh, I have a problem is when I found, I had no problem watching TV before. Suddenly I was on my phone watching TV. Watching shows that I really want. want to watch, not just like passive shows, like Ozark, where you've really got to follow the plot. And then I'd find out that I didn't know what was going on because I'd just been on Twitter for the last 10 minutes and I don't know how I'd done that. So now it's phone in the other room when I'm, and not just when I'm watching TV, when I'm like making dinner, when like me and my

boyfriend and just having a nice evening. Why am I on my phone when I'm supposed to be talking and having a nice time? With the love of your life, you know? Yes. So my phone, that's what that, I'm treating my phone like the love of my life. put the phone in the room for the evenings. And then the final thing, which I've found very helpful, was so, there was this thing a couple of weeks ago, I think, I can't remember spoke about it on here, but it was like a, oh no, I didn't,

it was like a digital detox day that Zoella had done. And I don't really, I don't really follow Zuella or whatever, but my sister was doing it, and she told me about it. And I was like, okay, and it was basically just don't go on social media for a day. And I laughed when I saw the campaign, so it's like, this is where we're around. like one day a year we won't go on social media my god then i tried it and my god like the amount of times i went to my phone and had to be like no and then also i i had a lovely day

like the day was so long we did loads of stuff i went and got some fun to it for a walk i read loads of i read loads of my book um it's at the park obviously i do that as well but in between that i'm also on my phone and it felt so nice but it's felt so odd. It felt so singular to not have gone on it once. And so now every week, it's normally a weekend. I did it yesterday. I will not go on social media.

And it's not necessarily phone, because sometimes I need WhatsApp or I need to check emails or something on a weekend, but not often, but I don't go on my phone. And that has brought my weekly average down loads. And also it means, I think, I hope that will kind of bleed into the rest of my week as well.

So I hope it will just be a step towards, not being so passive. And what's fascinating is that you don't miss anything. All you miss is exactly what you expect to miss. You miss some news story that was on a news website anyway. You miss everyone's hot takes. No one cares about those. You miss like just people saying stupid stuff.

You miss some pictures of someone in the park that you're like, oh, I wasn't invited. Like nothing bad for a day. Yes, I think a big thing, especially like Twitter, like there is nothing good on Twitter right now. there is a dystopian horror show happening, terrible information about something awful, and then, like, maybe a good dog,

but somebody else will message you the dog. Like, you will see the dog. Like, you will see, if there's a really good video, it will circulate around. So you don't have to be, you don't have to be the forefront of the stuff, because in order to get the, it's like basically like we're gold panning.

We're panning for gold to get some gold nuggets, and we're like, we've got to get in this, we've got to get through all this, but we're panning in literal shit. and we're like, but we've got to stay in this shit to get the gold nuggets. Because once a day I go, oh yeah. Yeah, because once a day you go,

that's funny. And then you pass it to the person next to you who goes, yeah, I just saw that. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, yeah, I just saw that too. So then you're like, what was I doing panning for gold in this river of shit?

Whereas, like, people can sit up there on the riverbank having a fantastic day away from the shit and then I'll bring them a piece of gold and they'll really enjoy it. And they'll be like, thank you. And then they'll be like, go get another. You know? So like, those people up the hill,

you can be them because people will bring the goal to you. You know, you don't have to be in the, so get off to it because there's nothing there. And then Instagram, it's just people pretending they're not at parties or not on holiday when they are on holiday or just openly being on holiday or shape being places and everybody just freaking out about who is not where.

So like don't, also there's nothing there, you know? A really good thing is to identify what you are using as your excuse with your phone because you know you're addicted to it, we know you're addicted to it. What are you saying is your excuse? Is it I need to be on Instagram for work. I need to be on Twitter for work.

I need to check my emails. And I'm not saying what you're saying is an excuse, Stevie. But I am saying that it is possible. I truly believe unless you are working in A&E and lives are hanging by the balance per second, your work is not so crucial that you aren't able to say to the people you work with or around you. Like, these are my hours.

These are my office hours. Please don't contact with this time. Absolutely. To say to your voice over agent, you know, please can you text me if it's a crucial thing so I don't have to go on my emails all the time. Like, please, can we... Like, what are the things you can put in place

so that you don't have to use those excuses that you trick yourself into, which is like, I have to do this thing now. I have, excuse me, I have to get in the river of shit. Yes, also... Nobody has to get in that river. You don't have to get in there. There's so much about this, which is like, yeah,

I use my phone for work. Because obviously now, a lot of people... It's actually London media vibes, where their job is through Instagram or their job is, I don't know, like an element of an influencer or whatever. but that still means that you could still, you know, attribute morning, maybe like, you know, an hour or two in the afternoon and then the evening or whatever.

Like, you can have windows of time that you check that stuff. No part of your job means that you have to be on it all day. Like, like, at all. But I do know, I've got my sister's one of them who has, does, you know, has to be on it a lot more than I do because she, like, does. designs things on there. She, because, because of how useful phones are, and because they've wheedled their way into every element of, you know,

existence, she uses a lot of things on her phone. When actually, maybe she could use it. I know it's almost pointless, but it's like on her Mac or on her iPad, just getting off the phones better. Moving the thing from your stuff onto your computer screen is a huge step because then the first phone is not, becomes a thing that's quite boring this phone as opposed to being, in a dispensable thing it becomes like oh I don't need it as much and it takes away some of that power

because we're so like oh this phone helps me but really we are the constant life source to the phone like we are absolutely um you know we keep it we charge it we keep it precious we keep it in a case we carry it we sometimes let it be run over by a car but mostly we like and i think part of me people always like why isn't your phone in a case and i think a true part of that is like somewhere do down i'm like because i don't want to give it too much power you know i don't i want it to be something that's like... They end up spending so much more money because it just will break.

It's not really a money thing. And also I've got a nice man down an alley who puts a new screen on for me. Like, and look, I'll break it twice here, sure. But it also means I'm like, it's not my most precious thing. I feel able to be like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not as wedded to it. I do think, and we know we're coming to the end here. But I do think, like, I truly recommend if this is something for you that you're like,

oh my God, yes, please. I really am addicted. I really recommend going absolutely cold turkey. open your apps right this second delete Twitter delete Instagram delete whatever your thing is that you're addicted to you will they're all it's all still there it's not gone anywhere it's just the app is gone you can look at it on your computer you can look at it somewhere else but it means that the phone does not become your only way into those things

and it takes away some of that power yeah and the just feeling over the next couple of hours or however long you manage between the moment you do it and when you inevitably put them back again just seeing how many times you just your hands pick it up how many times that you reflectively go there and just see like oh my lord this is such a big issue yeah look look at it with curiosity like a scientific experiment and also and then I would recommend as well having one day where you don't every week it doesn't matter what you're doing one day every week where you do not go you we do not go on your on your phone it's Sunday's obviously the best but like

if you're if you work on Sundays then obviously not pick a day that's really good for you oh my god don't get an app that helps you get off your phone because that's a an oxymoron and it doesn't make any sense and it's just going to make you feel bad about yourself and there's no other way than just getting off your phone. Obviously an app that helps you go off your phone makes no sense. And there's also some incredible things. If you Google it, one is a suggestion that you buy a fake phone just for people that need to hold a phone in their hand. We're at this level now. So we're basically, we're basically, need to get out before you need to hold a fake phone in your hand. As with all

addictions, a gradual decrease is never, is statistically not proven to work. It's a way of you tricking yourself into being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm doing it, I'm doing it. I don't go on for 45 minutes on Sunday. Like, you've got to go Gold Turkey because you will climb your way back out again, but you've got to go to Turkey just to see how much this is affecting your life. Yes, and then you can make a plan. Then you can be like, okay, I use it, you know, I've, found that I used it a lot during commuting, so now I'd always take a book with me, and I read the book, that's what I do.

Or I take a notepad and I like jot down ideas for projects that work that I'm doing. But you have to, it's like with any sort of terrible habit. The first kind of month or so of you doing this will feel very like, oh God, this is actually quite a lot of effort to not do this. But then it becomes a lot easier the more you do it. So then you'll naturally be, for example,

not taking your phone into the toilet. you'll naturally be not taking, not looking at your phone during a commute. It will switch over to being odd to get your phone out on the tube or on the train because it's actually, you're so used to now doing the other things. You want to, it's, it'll feel weird for a bit, but that will go away. That will stop because now it is, now I really notice it when I check my phone on the tube because I'm like, oh, I've stopped doing this and it feels really like, oh, I'm doing that again.

It feels kind of gross. But yeah, and I think have your average day. daily screen time because knowing that that is coming up on Monday makes me really like, no, I don't need to look at it now. Like I don't want, I don't want to look at that number and have it be seven and a half hours, which it was two weeks ago because I was like, fuck it, don't care. I do care. And yeah, I just think what you could do is seven and a half hours. That's loads of time. So much, so much. Get a wristwatch, get a radio alarm clock. Get your own spirit level.

Get a comfort. Just get a spirit level because that's what we're all using it for. It needs to stop. Be aware of what your own excuses are and have the physical thing there to replace it. Yes. So that you're like, I don't want to be alone. Make sure you've got your notebook.

Make sure what you know. And we believe in you. And you've got to do it right this second. Delete them. Delete them. Delete them. But then follow us on Twitter at Nobody Panicpod. No, don't.

We don't need you. Yes. The S.5. And Tessa at Tessa Cote. And email us, Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail. At gmail. Do all those things on your phone.

No, don't. Don't. Be free. Just try yourself into the river. get into nature but hopefully that helps because obviously it's not a problem we can solve

unless we single-handedly take on Silicon Valley but I can tell you that I am a lot more mindful of it and it's helped me a lot more just those tiny things that I'm still on my phone too much but it's an ongoing process

and to not beat yourself up if you have a week where it goes back up again and you're like oh god I've fucked it now I might as well just keep going just no like it will be an up and down thing

but as long as you're aware of it, that's half the battle. Exactly. And have a lovely way. We're here for you. We're here for you. You cannot contact us because you mustn't use your phone but just to be hard that we're