Nobody Panic - How to Quit Your Job

Episode Date: June 1, 2021

Hate your job? Love your job but still need to quit? Whether you despise your boss or love them so much you desperately don't want to let them down, Stevie and Tessa unpack the route of least tears, otherwise known as the most professional way to quit your job without burning any bridges. Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Ben Williams for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. it. Nobody panic time. Hello and welcome to the podcast. What's this meeting about? Uh-oh, we're here to break your heart and leave and quit your job. Yeah, we're going to quit your job. We're going to quit your job.

We've had quite a few requests for this one. It's quite an exciting, like dramatic thought, isn't it? Like, and in your head, it's awful, well, for me anyway, in my head, it involves like an open top car and I'm wearing a scar, like, one of those like very sort of thin scarf chiffon honestly chiffon and it's tied around my head it involves a lot of saying like F you and the horse you rode in on I hate you I hate this job

and I'm leaving forever and then you know storming out yes that's often not the best reality so yeah today we're going to be talking about how to quit your job in a way that is the best way for just your own sanity the worst is when you look back and go like I shouldn't have hired that open top car. It was really expensive.

That was a mistake. I shouldn't have gone through everybody, all the employers and said, oh, they're shit. Like, that's not the best way of doing it. If you've never listened to the podcast before, hello, my name is Stevie. And my good friend here is called Tessa. Hello. We had to help you and ourselves through things. At the beginning of each episode, we like to also just say an adult thing that we've done each week to make us feel better about our lives and our experiences as people. Tessa, what is the most sort of grown-up thing you've done in the last seven days specifically? Well, I suppose I have a small one and a big one,

but I think I'm going to come out the park with the big one, which is that, and so I haven't updated everybody, that I have been working at the vaccine centre, and I have been doing the vaccinations. How's that? It's great. I love it so much. I wear my little uniform and I have my little badge,

and off I go. Sometimes I'm on actual needles, and I love it. And sometimes I'm just on manning the queue, and I also love that. I really like it. It's just really, genuinely, really nice to go to work for a whole day and, like, come home tired, like, just to feel useful for the day, you know?

I really like doing the queue because I'm at a centre that we also take walk-ins, and people are so excited when they say, can I join this queue? And I say, yeah, you can, get in the queue. and then I'm both the front and the end of the queue and so when they're ready for a next person I say like, okay, you're up and you go, have a good time and people love that. It's real thought park energy, basically,

is what I'm bringing to the queue. I'm out there doing a type five. I'm having the time of my life, Stevie. This is great. I've been once with my partner who had it and all of the staff was so fun. It was like fun hat day as well at the one that I worked. I'm all doing a fun hat.

And the one was wearing a sailor hat, someone else was wearing a pirate hat. Someone else just had a balloon attached to the headband. That was great. but it was just really like a great party atmosphere. And if you do get called up, I was just going to say, if you do get called up and you think, but surely I'm too young or I'm too youthful or this must be a mistake or whatever.

If you do get called up or if your local place says, like we're doing walk-ins, like don't in any way feel that you're taking it away from somebody else. Like if you get an opportunity, take it. You know, that's how the system works. Like don't ever feel that you're taking it off somebody else. Incredibly adult. Well, thank you very much. Mine is poultry.

I never go and buy coffees from coffee shops, mainly because I don't like coffee, but also because I don't like caffeine, because caffeine makes you feel really like jumpy and like very like, like, a goblin. And then I thought, well, my partner was like, why don't you just say like I would like a decaf? And I was like, no, because that's lame. Because then I have to say like decaf oat milk. And then I like flat whites. And I just feel really stupid being like, have a decaf oat milk flat. I was like, what's the point of that?

Anyway, I went to the coffee shop and I ordered it. And it was fine. and I didn't feel stupid. It was like, that's what the coffee shop is there for. Stop being embarrassed to order the thing that you want because you think it makes you sound like a member of the bourgeoisie. For when I got it, I was like, oh, no, I meant latte, because this is too small.

Was it nice? Yeah. Well, if it wasn't nice, you don't have to have it. No, I know. It's fine. I just feel like it's weird that I don't drink any hot drinks. Me neither. And I only drink water.

Sorry if this podcast upsets you, if you've been listening for a long time, and now this is the thing that makes you be like, what? But neither of us drink coffee. Or tea. Listen, we've kept it secret all this time because we think it makes us look pathetic, which it does. It tastes a bit like mud. No, I think people get upset when we describe what we think the taste is.

Yes. Hot soil. I used to say, like, it's like you've drink me a hot drink out of my shoe. I don't like it. Okay, I've just switched my adult thing. From now on, I'm going to. going to stop going to coffee shops and ordering things that I don't want to try and be adult. There we go.

Just be like, I'll get a bottle of water from that Starbucks, thank you, because that's what I would like. Well done. Jesus. Get a life woman. Okay. Listen, I'm going to, I'm going to segue from your adult thing into it by saying, you've got one life. And if you don't want to drink a flat white, you don't have to. If you do not want to do your job anymore, you don't have to do that either.

You don't have to do it just because you think. think you should and you certainly don't have to stay at your job in case you upset people. This is what this is going to be all about. That is a very good point. And I think there is a real difference between being like, obviously, just walk out now. Like, you can't. Just go. Just go. Financially, you know, you probably can't. That's fine. Like, we're not necessarily saying, you know what, just because you don't want to go in today, just don't. But what you can do is you can quit your job if you don't like it.

I remember, like, when we first got out of university and, like, I did English literature. And so, of course, everyone I knew became a lawyer because they're all like, well, this isn't, I've been playing around at uni, but now it's time for... What have I got here, then, this degree? What will this do? Now it's time for actual jobs.

And I was like, oh, no, guys, what? We were all supposed to be, like, writers. What's going on? I'm going to be a writer. I was like, very, very sweet for you. You go and write your little blogs while I actually earn some serious money. And I was like, oh, great.

And so then I was just poor for my entire 20s. And then loads of my friends that I was at uni with, you know, had these incredible flats. And we're like real grown-ups that I'm only just managing to do now 10 years later. They were doing it like 22, 23, 24. But then an interesting thing happened because then as everyone approached 30, which is a psychological milestone, as much as we do, I think it shouldn't be.

It is. Everyone started to freak out and be like, I think I might become a person that has a sock company on the side. Like, everyone started to be like, I should, what am I doing? I don't actually like my job because a lot of people, not everybody,

but a lot of people had, you know, got into it for, to be honest, fair reasons. I'd like to earn some money. I'd like a proper job, please,

and I would like to have an office and I would like to have a cool email signature. And I also really enjoy the law. Right. But like, then it became, Oh, I actually really want to be creative. You make decisions and that decision that you make doesn't have to be the right decision

for the rest of your life. Your decisions change and the things that you need change as you get older and as you go through different stages. And that's like perfectly fine. We're not living in the 50s where it's like you are a career man and women don't have jobs. Like you're allowed to have 70 careers all across a decade if you wanted to. You'd be exhausted. But you can do that.

You can do anything you want. And if your thing is like, oh, my God, but I can't leave the stability. I can't leave this. I like the, you know, X, Y, Z. And your reasons might be like, I love them. I don't want to let them down, even though I want to leave. Or I'm reliant on this money. Or I don't know how, I'm too old now.

I can't retrain as something else. I, you know, there are a plethora of reasons. But if you're, if the seed in you has begun to grow that you would like to do something else, then you need to honor and water that seed. and let that tree grow and move jobs. Once the cedar started, unfortunately, you've got to honour it because otherwise it just becomes a sort of resentful, you've got a resentful birch tree growing inside you, you know?

You could tend to a birch tree and have a beautiful birch tree growing in the soil outside your abode, or you could ignore it and then the tree grows inside you and splits you even half, and then you're just walking around with a massive tree growing out your nose. Incredibly painful. I've got a friend who has an incredibly corporate job, and he's been offered, like, essentially the top job. And he's decided to not take it because he wants to do something more creative. So he's going to move to like one of those cool sort of like app startups because he thinks like that will kind of get him back to what he likes doing.

And of course, secretly, I think he would love to just kind of do something like a bit more kind of creative and wild. But he really does need the structure. So instead of just being like, okay, I'm just going to like quit everything and just do this. He's looking at something within his industry that will give him that whilst also giving him structure. So it's about like really looking at the elements. of your job that you like, the elements of your job that you really hate and kind of like, it's a bit like matchmaking. You want to like match yourself to something. And doing that thing of like, okay, imagine if money was no object, I could just click my fingers, what would I do? And it's always

good to know what that is, even if you never end up being able to do it. Always good to know. So then you can try and align yourself as much as possible with it, you know? I'm saying even if you can't do it because you might click your fingers and be like, I want to be an Olympic gymnast and you're like, well I can't do that so you know there are certain jobs that are not possible i always think like sort of you get into the mindset of thinking like the only jobs are the ones that came up in the french textbook you know they were like um doctor fer du cheval what's a fer de chivalal oh is that a horse yeah it's just like i like to go horse riding that's just what i said in every single oh i'm really exactly wonderful it's not a job i would say it de chaval i make the horse

french what a fantastic language so confusing you know and like it was always like what do my parents do and you never said what they really did because my dad was an oceanographer. A man of the sea. And I didn't know how to say. And then I sort of ended up being like sort of, he's King Trident. Like is that as close as I could?

He owns the waves. He makes, he helps the waves. Neptune, the god of the ocean. So I always just said my dad was a doctor and my mother was a teacher, which wasn't true because it was too difficult to say. And so I think that you get very into that mindset

of being like, well, jobs are, you know, you work in the factory, you work in the restaurant, you work as a lawyer, you work as a doctor, you work as a teacher. Like, those are, that's it. If it pays the bills, like, your law sort of allows do anything you want. And there's no reason we need to be disparaging

about, like, you know, YouTubers or whatever. Like, if they make the money, they make the money. Like, no one said they had to go out and get up at the crack of dawn and, you know, go and till the fields. Everyone's trying to make sweet bank. Everyone's trying to make their bank. Let them make their bank however they want to. And also, like, I remember at a party meeting somebody

who was a professional nose. That's how they described themselves. I'm sorry, what? Or what do you think a professional nose is? Is it like a hand model? Oh, you think their nose is so good that they're in all the pictures. Yes. Oh, wait, wait, wait, okay, could I have one more guess?

Yeah, of course you may. Are they somebody where molds are taken of their nose for medical science? Such a good one as well. And again, those sound like two great jobs. That's an option, isn't it? No, option number three, and well done if you're playing along at home, they are a professional perfume smeller. Oh, that makes so much fun.

more sense than what I said. Okay, yes, okay, yes. I think that was a genuine turning point in my life where I was like, oh, people can be anything. You can do absolutely anything. You can be a professional knows. On LinkedIn, knows. And often, when you're sat at your job, it can just feel so impossible because as human beings, we talk about it a lot on this podcast, we are consistently resistant to change. We are frightened of change. Our brains are trying to protect ourselves all the time. and so the thought of doing anything different, of moving desks can, you know, make us freak out. So the idea of quitting and doing something different is just so overwhelming. The initial fears that you have, you can just go through them and like allay, all of them.

If it's financial, okay, well, no one says you have to quit now. Why don't you wait, calculate how much you will need to save up and then, you know, really work hard at doing that for the next six months, even a year. As long as you have a roadmap, everyone's favorite word now, to leaving, that's so much better than just sitting there being like, well, I guess I'm here until I die. Like, as long as you have a plan and you're like, you've committed to this plan and every month you see the money being put into the account and that's your like sort of getaway car that you're creating. That's what I did when I quit my job because I was absolutely terrified. I went freelance and I was just absolutely terrified. And so, yeah, I put money aside and then once I'd hit a certain amount, I was. was like, okay, well, I know that I've got two months. That's what I've got. But also it was like,

I freelanced on the side for the last year. And I wasn't allowed to consider leaving until I was freelancing as much as, like financially, as much as I was earning in my job. And that was my own personal little goal. And once I've done that, then I just felt like, oh, it's okay. I can trust this. You just have to put in place what makes you feel comfortable. You don't have to get the open top car and just go, fuck you and leave. Because that's not, it's really bad. You will be screwed if you do that. You'll absolutely screw yourself over. Before we get into the nitty-gritty of the process,

I want to sidestep into what it feels like when you're like, I want to leave. I know I'm ready to leave. I've got everything in place, but I don't want to upset them. So this is an email we had from Sophie, hello Sophie, who says,

I would love it if you could please do an episode on how to leave a job without burning bridges. I like my current workplace, but want to explore some other professional avenues and do not want my resignation to upset them. Do you have any advice on how to let them down gently? I'd be very grateful. And I know exactly how that feels.

I've left jobs where I made myself, like, physically sick with the anxiety of knowing I was going to quit and was so terrified about what they'd say. And I didn't want to exactly that feeling of like not wanting to upset them. But ultimately, when I did it, they went, oh, right. Bye. Bye. And then you're like, oh, right. Like, you just, I really feel for Sophia. and I hope, Sophie, that you take some comfort in this.

Like, that's a really human feeling to be like, oh God, oh God, I don't want to let them down. But I think we have to ask yourself is, is this a family firm? Are you the heir to the family firm? Like, has this been a running business for a thousand generations and you are now going to leave and do something else? How rational is your feeling that they will be disappointed in you? It's your life and you only get one life and you can't just stay in a job because you don't want to upset them by leaving. like that's not a good enough reason, but also like if it's not your own family and there's not any sort of other connection or other thing going on or anything like that, then it's ultimately, it's a

business and they expect there to be a turnover of people and they will be no doubt disappointed because you're obviously a fantastic worker and I'm sure they love having you there, but they are 100% ready for people to leave their jobs. Like that's what happens in jobs. People leave and they won't be disappointed in you and they won't be upset and you don't need to let them down gently. You just need to tell them professionally. That's part of it. of having a job is that you will leave at some point, especially now, you know, when people move around a lot. It's difficult when you're in office or it's one of your first jobs or it's, you've not moved around very much and your team have sort of stayed the same and no one else has

really left because then you can really feel like it's a taboo thing to leave. But I found something is that in both of the, I've had two kind of longish term office jobs and like both of them. Once one person left, suddenly everyone was like, oh yeah, I don't. learned to leave as well. So it becomes like a knock on effects sometimes and that's what you can sometimes feel bad about. But also that just means that there's been lots of people sat in an office being like, I'd quite like to leave, but I guess no one leaves here. So like you might be the spark to help other people kind of go, oh actually, you know, maybe I'd like to ask for a pay rise or like maybe there's somebody within your office who is desperate to move up but can't. And so when you leave, they'll be able to

move up and do a job that they would prefer to do better. It's good for the company. Like, it's not, and it's just a part of company life, isn't it? As long as you go about it in a way that you feel like you went about it in the best way possible, and you can walk away going, I did everything right there. It's not like a breakup where it's like, oh, it's just going to be horrible and awful. Like, it doesn't have to be. Like, tell us, Stevie, what is the best way possible for us to go about the actual process of the quitting?

Is it doing a shit on the floor and shouting, fuck you? Yes, you dress up in a disguise and you go into the thing. the office and you start like just spreading rumors that maybe you're going to leave but obviously you're putting on a heavy German accent. No, you basically have to do it in the way that you think you have to have to do it but you kind of are like, oh, do I? So once you've decided it's the right time, of course, make sure that it's the right time, make sure that you either have something to move into, which is also a difficult thing because people can feel sick and like a sort of double agent having to go to job interviews when you've already got a job and you maybe haven't told. That's fine.

everyone does it. It obviously will be said, you know, oh, it's against company policy to do that. Oh, you said you've got a doctor's appointment, but you're actually going for a job interview. That is how everybody moves jobs. Otherwise, no one would ever be able to ever move jobs, would they, if you think about it, logically, everyone would quit their job and just have to then find a job and then not be able to have any income for months. No one will think any less of you.

And if anyone makes you feel bad, just know that that's coming from them. It's not coming from you. Yeah, have something to jump into or have savings enough that you feel that you can sustain the job hunt and you can, you know, you can sustain yourself in a healthy period of time and then also check your contract to see what the notice is. If it's like four months or something ridiculous, or if it's two weeks or if it's and plan that accordingly. So I'm ready. I've checked everything. I know that I've got a two week notice period. I've got my next job lined up, but I have been making myself six. with worry and I haven't told them and do I send an email? Do I just walk in and say it? Like, what do I do? You send a very succinct, calm, nice email to your line manager or the person like above you saying that you would like to have a meeting to discuss your future. And then when you

go in, you chat to them and you just come out with it. You don't have to be around the bush. You don't have to start crying. You don't have to be like, I'm so sorry. It's so fine what you're doing. You're making a great step for yourself. You say that you've really enjoyed working here and you found it so helpful, but you do think it's time for you to move on. That's always a nice way of putting it. Like, I just think it's time for me to move on and seek out some new challenges, you know? That's lovely. I think I definitely... No one can argue with that. No, no one can argue with that. You need to see... I'd be like, honestly, honestly, honestly, if you said this man, be like, Stevie, good luck with those new challenges.

I think I've definitely, I've definitely cried in there and said, like... I've cried every time I've left. Yeah, this is the thing about this podcast. Giving all this advice. We give all the chat. We give all the talk, but we're just in there crying. How did you leave? I just went like, I'm so sorry I don't want to leave.

And they went, well, don't then. And I was like, okay. I was like, you've got me there. Like, if you, you know, if you become too dramatic and too upset and you are all like, I've loved it here so much, but I've got to go. Then they say, like, well, if you are, don't leave. You know, like, they just... Yeah.

Then you're like, yeah, that's right. Don't let... You're so desperate, I think, to sort of be the victim and to be like, I'm really sorry about this and all of this and not to upset them and not want to burn these bridges that I think it makes you go too far, the opposite direction. But actually just saying, like, I've loved my time here, but I'm ready for new challenges and to move on.

And I will, of course, work my notice period. But I'm just, I'm giving you my notice. Like, that is so calm and close. and professional. And me receiving that, I'm like, thank you so much. That is so professional. Whereas if you come in and burst into tears, I'm like, what am I doing with this energy? We're at work. Like, this is, this is wild. I've just remembered that in my first job, my boss had to quit for me. What?

As in, I wouldn't quit because I was like, no, basically I clearly had outgrown the job. I was going to Edinburgh, our first year of doing our sketch group. And there was like a women's magazine that wanted me to write for them. And I was freelancing loads and I was clearly just like, and needed more than this job. But I was like, no, I want to do it. And he's like, no, you don't. What you need to do is you need to go to Edinburgh. In Edinburgh, you will apply for this staff writer job at this other place.

And they've said that they want you. So you need to. And I was like, no. He's like, I'm quitting for you. And I was like, you're firing me. It's like, I'm not firing you. I'm giving you the opportunity to move on. Thankfully, the office was like a real chill place and it was, you know, very sweet that he did that.

But I was in bloods of tears. And then the second time I tried to quit, I was like, I'm not making that mistake again. I knew that I needed to leave. So I gave my notice. And then the editor was like, please, can you stay for longer? Because we just don't have the money to hire anyone else. And I was like, okay. And then I ended up obviously being miserable because I had, because I was staying in this job that I'd said I wanted to leave.

that I couldn't cope with because I had too much freelance work. I needed to go freelance. And then she ended up being like, oh, just leave then. You're so miserable. It was like, oh, my God. So she made me feel really bad for something that wasn't my fault. So basically, I've had both ends of the spectrum. If you go about it in the right way,

if someone then makes you feel bad and makes you feel like you're doing the wrong thing or forces you to stay or whatever, that's on them. That is not your fault. Make decision for you. and then, you know, have people around you who can remind you why you've made that decision. So you're not just on your own being like, oh, because it's so easy to be talked back into the job as well. The being talked back into the job is such an important thing. I think exactly what you're saying that like be ready, but both like own what you're doing so that you're not both like hysterically crying because you're leaving.

And you're owning it so that you've got to be ready for any eventuality of what they do as a response to you. So if they say, please don't leave where I'd be like, I'm really sorry. I know that the company is sorry, but I need to do this for me. I'm making this decision. So if you're ready for that, then they say, please don't leave. And then they might say, what if we gave you more money? At which point, you're so blindsided. You're like, okay, yeah. And then you come out being like, what just happened in there? And now I've got, I'm still here, but now I make an extra £1,000 a year. You know, like, was that ultimately enough? And so you need to be ready in your head for them to say, no, thank you, please don't

leave. We're in crisis. Please don't leave me. But you'd be like, I'm ready for that eventuality to say, I'm really sorry the company's in trouble, but I'm making a decision for me, for them to say, please don't leave, we need you desperately. What if we gave you X more money? And decide in your head what the number is that actually you would stay for and be clear about like, that's the number. And if they name that number, be like, all right then, yeah. But if they name anything less, be like, no, this is my decision. And if they sort of guilt trip you in any sort of way, or if they offer you, you know, ex perks or they say, what if we moved you to New York? I'm just guessing your company has a New York office or like, you know, something really cool.

It does, yeah. The Nobody Panic Office. We've got a New York branch. Be ready for anything that they might offer you and how you might feel in that scenario. And I think it's maybe a good idea to sort of have a practice with your housemate and for them to have sort of 10 crazy possible scenarios

that might happen and what you would do in all of them because I think it is so easy to be blindsided and surprised and then just do not like the conflict, which I think nobody does, to want to come out of this with a gold star, which you're not going to do because you are inherent, leaving that you sort of say anything to appease the situation. Yeah.

And they might say like, how about you review it and you come back next week? And then you're like, okay, okay, yes, just as of get out of the room because you don't. Yeah, when you've already taken a job somewhere else that you are leaving. You're like, what the hell was the point of that? Like, what am I, you know, what are you doing? And that become, so you've just got to go in there strong and be like, these are my decisions, this is what I'm doing. And so no matter what they say, you, you still leave being like, yes, I've left this job.

I just, I've done so many, you know, shifts or, you know, barwick where I was like, I have to go at this time. And they say, oh, please, can you just do this? And I'm like, okay. Okay. You know, like, why don't you, why don't you think about it and come back? And I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do that. And then I'm like, why? Why did I say that? Obviously already thought about it. I made the decision. I've got, I'm going, you know. Don't worry as well if it doesn't, as, as we are showing our experiences, it's quite clear that it's quite difficult. It's a difficult thing to do. So don't worry if, like, you know, you do get teary or you find yourself kind of being a bit more emotional than you would be. Or you kind of do get swayed into kind of being like, oh, okay. And then how? And then just if that happens, for example, if you do end up being like, oh, okay. And then you leave being like, no, go back in and say, I'm so sorry.

No. Like you are. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's the paramount importance that you end up doing the thing that you want to do rather than being like, oh, I cried. So I look like an idiot. so I'm, I better stay. Like, it's... If it goes badly in there, go to the toilets, have a regroup, let that sort of like weird,

surreal feeling that sometimes happens in like conflict where you just like say any old shit. And then like, what on earth was I thinking? Like, how did that happen? That's how like, con artists or anything works by you suddenly just being like, okay, like, this seems... It's the hustle. It's that I'm like, I guess it's under, I guess it's under cup number three. You just, you're so... They've played onto that emotion and suddenly you're just like, okay, yeah, this is

happen now. So like then you regroup, take 10 minutes, have a breath, go back again and be like, I'm so sorry, I shouldn't have, I just got caught up in that. I'm so sorry, but this is actually what's happening and, you know, go back into the room and don't get to the end of the day, basically, without being like, this is what's happening and we're all agreed and I will be working by notice period. And the relief, oh my God, the relief you'll feel. It's always good to have a very positive, but pleasantly vague reason why you are leaving, whether that is new challenges, whether because when you say you're nice, it's time for you to till new, you. To till horizons, then the person will say, why are you leaving?

Yeah. So do you have any feedback on the company? Like, what's going on? So you will have to be more specific, but it's best not to be like, you know, for example, because Marx and a sultanist, like, that's not, unless it is, in fact, you know, hopefully you will have raised that with HR throughout your time. But I mean, like going through everyone and being like, well, they're stupid, this is ridiculous.

Like, not a time to bitch when you're leaving. it's a time to be classy, graceful, and also give them, if there is something, like, I think I use the worst example, because if there is, like, for example, a difficult culture in the office of misogyny, let's say, that actually is a good point to raise and say, if that is why you're leaving, feel free to bring that up. But always keep it as unemotional and succinct as possible, rather than going on, like, a rant, for example, or be like, how finally I can now get, like, air. out all my grievances. But if you've already tried to kind of change things and it hasn't happened

and that's why you're leaving, it's always good to kind of have a thing that's personal that no one can argue with. So it's like I just feel like I've reached the kind of ceiling of what I can do here and I'm really interested in moving into this kind of work, which is why I've decided to kind of look for jobs in this kind of part of the industry, which isn't offered here or whatever. Or it could be as simple as they're just able to offer me a lot more flexibility. or they're able to offer me. You know, like, it's so easy to just kind of be really vague or to be, like, too specific,

but just kind of focus on things that they can't go, well, no, that's wrong. Or be like, well, what about if we did this? You're like, well, they've got me over a barrel here because that, you know? They've certainly got me on over a barrel. Yeah, I think it's exactly that of, like, once you are over the barrel, you are in a tricky position. So prevent the barrel by being succinct and clear exactly as Stevie saying,

but always with it from a place of truth, because much like breaking up with somebody, if you say it's the distance, they'll say, I'll move to be with you in Sri Lanka. I'll move the office to be in your house. I'll move the office to be in your house. So if you come up with a reason that isn't the truth but sounds like an easy escape, they will solve that problem. So make sure it is from a truthful place.

And if it is simply, I've achieved everything I can here and I need to move on. Like, there's nothing they can do about that. They cannot offer you more challenges, you know? Yeah. They can't be like, but have you solved this? Like, you know, that so, but if you do lie and you do to try and make things easier and all of this, they will counter you. And so make sure it is truthful.

Just be polite, clear, crisp, succinct, all of this. Like, it don't need to sugarcoat it or lie or, you know, in any way to try and protect them or any of those things. It's all about just getting the honest but polite answer out. It doesn't have to be, I fucking hate this job. And I never want to see any of you people ever again. No. But just whatever the politest version of that is, which is probably I'm ready to move on now.

If you really do hate them, think about how you're feeling six months time looking back. will you be happy that you're like, I fucking hate you. Probably not. You'll feel really good if you sort of left in a kind of a graceful manner, you know? And then you'd be like, I had the upper hand there. I was the bigger person. But also, stick to your guns. Like, there's a reason that seed has grown, like you are doing the right thing for yourself. So stay strong. Don't let them sway you. Be as clear as possible and also have friends that are really supportive of what you're doing to meet up with after you've done it so you can have like a celebratory evening you know swaray and also think like how cross those friends will be if when you arrive and they say how did it go you say a burst of tears

and they gave me a thousand more pounds so now I stay you know yeah they'd be like what we're throwing you this getting out of your shit job party and also you've got another job to go to like so have have somebody that you're accountable to that you're going to meet up afterwards who will be cross if you if you failed to leave the job. Yes. A tough love friend like Tessa will work. That's very much my role. But yes, hopefully that sort of helps in some way. That gives everyone some confidence.

If you're listening, thinking, yeah, I would do it. Start putting the plans in place. It's not to be now. Start writing down all your fears, working out how you can allay those fears and then making steps towards getting to where you want to be, getting into a position, a job that you feel a little bit more happy with because you're there for most of your life. What is the point of hating your job? You've got to, there's pros and cons of every single job. There's no such thing as a, you know, that whole thing where it's like,

I don't work because I love my job so much. You're like, well, just give it a few years and then everything feels, everything feels like work after a while. But like, you need to make sure that the pros outweigh the cons and that you do enjoy it. 100%. Do not worry about upsetting them. are a business. If you have any episode suggestions for us, please do email us, Nobody Panicpodcast at gmail.com, or what's the Twitter handle, Tessa? At Nobody Panic Pod. Correct. Yes. It wasn't really a test, but it sounds like it was. I'm at TVMVS is a five. Tessa. I'm at Tessa coach. It's classic letters. Have a lovely week, guys. And just don't panic. That's my new sign off. That's good, isn't it? It's not bad.

It's not bad. Okay. Love it. I was going to say, love it to speak to you all. Love it to speak to all. Love it to speak to all. Bye, bye now. Let's see you next week. Bye bye-bye.