Nobody Panic - How to sleep better

Episode Date: September 11, 2018

Stevie is rubbish at sleeping, Tessa is great at it. Here they look at what happens when you actually sleep (aided by the excellent book Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker) and how you can do it better.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. How have you slept? Good morning and welcome to the world. This podcast episode is on how to sleep better. Do you sleep well, Tessa? Do you sleep deep? Do you sleep true? Yes. Oh.

I think so. I'm quite a good sleeper. It's not one of my main areas of crisis. Okay, that's really great. There are some, so don't be jealous. I'm not jealous, but I am a bit. I'm pretty good at sleeping. They're set by nightmares sometimes. Understood.

Right, do you wake up a lot in the night? Nope, I'm out. Okay. But then I don't ever really wake up and be like, smashed it. I'm ready to get out now. That's because you've smashed it every night. So what is smashing it when you smash it naturally? You're right.

I have no sense of... If I fell asleep at like, I don't know, I say midnight, then woke up at 8. That is unheard of. Oh, really? Yes. That never happens. I've smashed it.

Oh, right. Okay. And that's your normal. When I hear about people who like can get up in the morning... Uh-huh. Can you? No. Oh, right, okay.

I've read an interesting thing about it. Oh, great. Which I'll share later. Park back and circle back. Absolutely. Please tell me because... Like a buzzard. When I...

Circling some carry-on. I have a friend that when I worked with her in an office, she would get up two hours earlier than she needed to. Just that she could have some nice time in the morning. Because she loved morning so much. That's insane to me. It's like a different species of human. It's like she's saying, I have a tail and I wag it.

That's basically what she's saying to me. When I do have to get up in the... the early morning and I am like awake for sunrise or whatever I'm like this is exquisite and I wish I could do this every day yes but I feel so wretched that I'm surely at 7 p.m. Yeah surely to God and also I think because that happens I'm guessing quite rarely that you're up at the crack of dawn the novelty is there so it's like the night before it's like oh best go to bed early and get put all my clothes out because I'm getting up at five or whatever tell everyone you've ever met tell everyone do a tweet yeah And then when you get up, you're like, oh, here I am, just casually in the shower at half five.

Yeah, yeah. And it's exactly right. Whereas if this was every single day, I have to do it again tomorrow. There's, what? Like, yes, I think, because you always, always read about the CEOs rising at five. The stylist's work life balance. Oh, God. I get up at 6.30.

I'm already on my way to the gym in a latte. And I check, I check my emails. I touch base with the Japanese while on my, in my cross fret. Cross fret. Yes, no, crossfit. And then she's off. I was always like infuriated by them. But it means to do that you have to go to bed.

You have be so rigid about like going to bed at 10pm. And it's very hard to do that because a lot of people, I've got a friend who is an insomniac. I have trouble sleeping, but I will also, for every like three nights I kind of don't really sleep very well. I'll have one night where I sleep accidentally. And it's very rare that I don't sleep at all throughout the night. Whereas for her, it's like a couple of nights a week.

She won't sleep at all. It's crazy. And she can't stand these like how to sleep articles, how to sleep podcast episodes, because it's just scaremongering because she's like, great, I can't. I'm 30, I've tried everything. The only thing that knocks me out is serious drugs,

and I'm not doing that. Some people just can't. And if you're listening, you're like, I haven't slept since 1993. That is something that is a medical condition that is way more than like, get a nice mattress is going to help you with. So we suggest the insomniacs probably turnover.

I'd say, have a listen because there'll be some great laugh. Stick with us. Some great content. We're thrilled to have you, but we're sorry we don't know if we can... I don't know if I can cure insomnia. Well, I think it's sort of almost obnoxious to suggest you can. Yes, I feel so, unless you are a scientist. I read a really great book, which I would recommend everyone, maybe not insomniax read, though,

called Why We Sleep by Dr. Matthew Walker. It's not about how to sleep better. But it just explains what sleep is the effect of not getting it and all that business. Also, like, what amazing stuff it does for you, which I found, weirdly, started to help me sleep a bit better because I started to really see it as, like, this thing that my body wants to do anyway, this natural thing. When you're excited about the wonder of something,

like, it's so incredible what your brain is doing at night. It's kind of, if it becomes a thing of dread, then it's very difficult to do it. Absolutely. Also, so frustrating if you say you share a bed, maybe I do. And the other person goes to sleep within five seconds, often in mid-sentence, is the most frustrating thing because you're literally just watching someone show you what you could be doing. Yes.

The life that you could leave. And then they just continue to do it for eight hours. I think it's so much harder to fall asleep next to somebody who is asleep. Is it possible? Who is asleep. Yes. The person in question is perhaps away at the moment. and I'm sleeping like a baby.

Are you? Yes. Which is really sad, so that means I have to dump him. No, you don't. No, you don't. You just have to get so rich that you have a second bedroom. Or a massive bed. We once went on holiday and we had one of those like,

I don't know what they're even called. It's beyond king size, beyond queen size. So massive that I could stretch out and I still wasn't touching the other person. It was incredible. So I think I have to get so rich. And did that help? Yes. Two big beds that you push together and you've got a giant bed.

Imagine two kings. Imagine that. I can't. That'd be so big. Imagine two king-sized beds. Right. For more of this, insomniacs,

stick with us. Actually, very helpful to listen to if you're trying to fall asleep. Okay, so let's do our adult things. You go first. Steve, what's your adult thing this week? Okay. I went to a...

So normally what happens is I go on social media and I see all these people who are constantly at like farmer's markets and going to some sort of a very... that's happened. I'm like, how did you know about it? And then when you knew about it,

how did you get the gumption to actually go? So there was a... Gumpion in a grey word. That's a great word. There was, it always reminds me of a farmer. Oh, I think it's because of gumboots. Anyway, pointless. I live in an area of London where there ain't no farmer's markets. It's a very like sparse region. And there was

they're having a farmer's market. Not only did I know it was happening. I also got up early and I went and I brought a little bag to put stuff in. Oh, fantastic. And it turns out there wasn't anything there that really didn't do my fancy. But my friend bought some cookies and I looked at a scarf and I didn't buy it. And then I went to Tesco and got some dried apocots and realized that that's the problem with commercialised shopping right there.

But still, I went and I felt like a real grown-up because I was walking around a farmer's market. That is wonderful. And I hope while there you saw the inherent vapidness of the farmer's market experience. Very much so. If I didn't think there were too many wasps because there were lots of like jams. and when I actually inspected the goods I was like, yeah, I mean I've got all this at home I've got a hot sauce.

Show and no trousers I think. Yeah, there was one tent that had lots of veg in it and I was like, great, but I've got veg. Like, I could buy veg. Yeah, it's very much like, I really find it hard work. I think much the same way of like, of like, Hurgle, Huggie, Hougu. And I'm like, get on, you know,

have got on your big socks and like go to the farm and smell. I just want to lay part on some big socks. hate her girl. Get next to the fire. And it's like, it's for late, it's lazy. And get, you go. It's fine, but it's not something you have to like dedicate your life or write a book about. No, exactly. It's just about like being cozy.

And a farmer's market is just buying food you need. Yeah. But it's become this thing that's like a fad that's like, imagine in like in the olden times, when people's whole lives revolved around the actual farmer's market. Yeah. Imagine if they knew that in the future it would be this like twee, Pinterest experience. Really expensive thing. Really expensive, Hessian string wrapped experience.

It's so weird. Some cousins, you know, used to go to the actual market. They're sheep farmers. You go to the market every Saturday. And you had to get up at 2 a.m. And go to drive to the market. It only went one time. It was one of the most harrowing experiences.

And like everything was just like throw in dead fish everywhere and throwing sheep. And there's like so much like meat being thrown. But they don't like those markets. Now it's a farmer's market. And so now that it's like, oh, and it's a lovely little jam and it's made by. So he's like holding a face in a way that's very. Farmer's Marketing. Oh, so, being so unnecessarily mean.

If you love a farmer's market, go to it. Sorry, right, your adult thing. My other thing, I guess, is that I am moving home until Christmas. I'm going back to my parents for a bit and have moved all my stuff and I feel very, very Marie Kondo-esque that I'm like getting rid of a lot of things. Saying thank you to many items. So much thank you. And then when I go home home, I'm going to do it with like the whole house and all my parents'

stuff and everything. And there's a phone box, like an old old phone box outside our hands. house that used to be the village phone box and now obviously mobile phones and I think I might turn it into a little library great do one of those libraries where they say wait for the level of whatsaps that we'll be having they're going to be just slightly slightly more detached and crazy as yeah it'll be I'll come home else I mean I haven't told them yet and I said mom will say that's a wonderful idea it is a wonderful idea then my dad will say that's absolutely stupid then me and my mom will try and build it build a shelf then dad'll have to get involved because we've done it wrong and he's a good

DIY guys. And he'll come and fix everything. But I think, yeah, when there's just like, take a book, leave a book, little... It's a lovely idea. A little library. Is there a lot of, like, footfall past your house? I think there's enough, yeah. Okay, great. Well, that's great. A fair bit of footfall. A bit of foot traffic from a library. Even if it's just you and Debbie. Like, you can just give each of the books.

Yeah, exactly. We're all our books, that's the thing is like, where all the books, Tessa, they're in the library outside our house now. That's where all our books are. I think it's a great idea. And also, I think it's so, it's such a good and adult decision to decide to do that, because it It feels like it'd be like a, oh, God, a regression, but it's absolutely not because you've taken control and it's a better decision than what you're currently experiencing. Yes.

And it gives you time out. I just thought, like, I can't, I don't think I can make, do another London winter where I am. And I was like, I just need to start again, have a couple of months, just like. Eat some good food. And just reassess. And obviously, I'm extremely lucky that I get to go home. Right, so sleeping. I'd like to hear my things that I learned about sleeping.

Oh, I literally cannot wait. Okay, so, just so we're on. the same page of like what sleeping what affects sleep sleeping as I need to close your eyes for a long time at night guys we're on it right so basically everyone like bandies around that kind of like circadian rhythm thing about you're on basically we all have slightly different 24 hour rhythm so so your circadian rhythm has many factors affecting it crucially your body temperature drops to help initiate sleep and so it will do that at different points now when you said that you can't get up in the morning even if you've had like a good sleep or you don't really want to and so

Some people are like, oh, they're going to be six, and it's great. That's because it's genetic. Your circadian rhythm, it's innate, and some people have a later circadian rhythm than others. And our society has fully... That relief is huge. It's huge. The society has fully, like the working out and everything, has lent towards people who have early rises. And that's for no other reason than when they were sorting out the hours.

The people who were early risers sorted it out and were like, well, yes, come on. whereas actually most people between 12 and 3pm are at their like peak. So it's not your fault if you can't get up in the morning. Like that's just like a thing. Thank you. It is obviously if you go to bed at like 5am because you've been out partying. But like, you know, you know that. So it is genetic.

It's also triggered and helped along and reinforced by light and dark. So that's why the whole problem with phones and things like that, the blue light, if you're looking at that, if you look at a blue light phone, which is basically any smartphone that isn't in like night mode or whatever, for like five minutes, that's the equivalent of being outdoors in bright sunshine for like 12 hours. The amount is the same. So it confuses your rhythm.

So it will be a little bit more sluggish. At the same time, there's another rhythm, which is, in this book, is called sleep pressure. And it's this chemical called adenosine, which builds up in your brain from the moment you wake up to the moment you fall asleep. And it builds and builds and builds. And the more adenosine in your brain, the more sleepy. get. So you basically are building up the sleep pressure until your body can take it no more and you fall asleep. So also caffeine blocks this, but it still builds up. So that's why when the caffeine stops becoming effective, you have a caffeine crash because all the adenosine floods out and there's

actually now more of it. So you become incredibly sleeping. And these two things, the circadian rhythm and sleep pressure, are working all the time. And then normally in tandem with a healthy person, but often if you do like an all-nighter or you do like, or you're just not sleeping well or you're drinking coffee, they're not. So they don't necessarily communicate with each other. So if your adenosine, you've just backed it up and backed it up and backed up,

and you get a huge flood and it's also at the exact time that your circadian rhythm is kind of on a downward spiral. That's why the 4pm slump happens. Because in a normal person who isn't drinking caffeine, who isn't tried to pull an all-night over the night before, you would have a normal amount of sleep pressure at 4pm. that can totally cope with the downward spiral, almost, of your circadian rhythm. And when those two things happen at the same time, you basically just fall asleep at your desk.

Your body can't cope with it. So the whole thing is like the book is all about kind of like things like caffeine and how they did this amazing experiment with spiders, where they fed spiders caffeine, and watched the webs that they built, and the webs were a complete mess. And they also did it with like, they gave spiders acid and stuff, and then they gave spiders and then they gave spiders. And then they gave spiders, it just is like, oh, these poor spiders, but the webs are fascinating.

But the caffeine one is just a complete mess. Do the acid and cocaine ones look the same as the caffeine ones? No, the cocaine one is just like, there's so many webs. Right. I can't remember what the acid one is. In my head, it's like tied-eyed, but I don't think that's a thing. So that's like basically what's happening in the day. You've got these two rhythms that are constantly working,

and you can't stop this adenosine. Like, it will just keep building. Like, once you know that that's happening, you can do things like, so, for example, sunlight in the morning is really important. because it gets you awake. Looking at your phone will get you awake really, really quickly in the morning because it's the blue light, not taking caffeine because it will just make it so much worse later on if you're really, really tired, or you've got a big day tomorrow.

Don't have any coffee the day before because it'll just basically back you up. So there's like different types of sleep as well. So there's the REM sleep, which is rapid eye movement, which is light sleep. That's where you dream. And then there's NREM, which is very deep. And it basically cleanses your entire body, your entire brain. if you don't get sleep, uninterrupted sleep for seven hours,

you're not getting the right amount of NREM, and then you enter into like a sleep debt, which you then, which becomes harder and harder to repay as it builds up. And then I stopped reading the book because I got really stressed. So that's all of the science that I'll be saying, because then I started to not be able to sleep

because I was so upset about my sleep debt. So what is the difference in R&M and NREM? REM's wave-wise is like a shorter wave sleep. Your brain waves are, essentially what they think is that that's your brain sorting out, sorting through the information in the day. So when you have dreams as well, there's like a nice theory that it's, so if you keep like, for example, like lots of people like, I keep dreaming about my ex or whatever. Does it mean I still love him? No, it means that you're working through a trauma.

So for example, I keep dreaming about the Edinburgh fringe because I'm trying to work through the trauma of the last month. So it's basically your brain is trying to help you work it out and it starts storing it into like another part of your brain. And while it's doing that, you were seeing those images. NREM is no dreaming. It's you are in full shutdown. Your brain is cleaning itself. Your brain is cleaning all the organs. It's basically like fully resetting you for the next day.

You'll go into REM and then you'll go into NREM. Then you go back into REM and you go all night. And it kind of keeps doing this. Like a wave. Like a wave. And it's cycles of, and I think I'm running saying it's 90 minutes of, as in like R&M and R&M. That's like a 90 minutes. So when you count back for like when you should set your alarm, you should do it in 90 minute blocks

because then that'll be the time when you're closest to being awake and you can like rise. But I mean work means that you can't often do that. Yes, well there's that sleep cycle app isn't there that tries to do exactly that. I got obsessed with that. Yes. It didn't make you desperate to get 90%? Yeah. Which is what, yeah, it did.

And then I started to think that it didn't, wasn't real. And then I just couldn't be bothered anymore. Yes. I once scored 96% after. a barely sleeping. Oh. I was like, you lying? Right, so it's lying.

So then I don't think it's lying so much. It's like, I don't know what it's recording here. And I think even if it has a placebo element to it, I think it's quite a positive thing that it's like, it's woken you up in like a light. Oh yeah, it has a really nice alarm that you don't really realize it's happening. And then you're suddenly awake and then you're like, oh, this is like, rather than the, ah, which is.

Yes, because I think there's quite a different alarm. Yeah, that needs, you, that has to go. Yeah. It's awful. Yeah, being like eased awake when you're already quite light, rather being like dragged out of your REM or... Yeah, having like a sharp awakening isn't great. No.

The reason that I stopped reading the book was because it didn't have tips about how to sleep better. Because he's a scientist and then, you know, whatever. So he is very much like, humans don't change. So what is the point of changing habits? And I completely get that. But at the same time, I feel like if you try and change everything about how you're sleeping, of course you're not going to be able to keep that up. Just like, when you're like, I'm going to eat.

healthy for the rest of my life. No, you're not. You have to change one little thing. And then, and then also, I think sometimes just being aware of it is enough. The one thing I changed last year was that my phone is now always on night mode. There's never any blue light coming out of it. I genuinely have seen a slight difference in, in my sleeping. It's just better. It's just slightly better. I fall to sleep a little bit faster. Will you, as an experiment, consider putting your phone in the living room? Could do. Could do. I haven't. haven't got to that stage yet.

I feel, yeah, that's like, what is it that's holding you back from that? I'm trying to think. I think it's like, I don't know, dread and fear. Of what? Let's work through it. Okay, maybe I'm just, I'm,

that someone tries to get in touch with me, that there's a problem in the middle of the night, like with one of my grandparents or something, or like, you know, I will just turn onto airplane mode sometimes. See, like, well, hang on, so why is it there? Yeah, there's no, there's no reason, is that? It's just, it's near me all day. So it has to be near me.

In the night. In the night? In the night. Would you consider getting a pager? No, because it's not 1984. Get a pager. I'm not getting a pager. Realistically, no one listening is going to get a pager.

And realistically, no one's going to call you in the middle of the night with a... Really good. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to start putting my phone outside of my room. Yes, and the pager can stay in the room with you. No, I'm not having a pager. Well, then that's... I don't think you buy them. Look.

Do you have a pager? Look, no, but I've got a... I've bought some stocks in pagers. and I'm trying to move these pages. Do you have your phone in your room? Yes, I do, but I have been trying to... A pot calling the kettle to get a pager? Yeah, I just won't be able to buy pages.

No, but I... I'm aware of it, but it's not... As we've established, very good at falling asleep. Of course. But I'm better at falling asleep now with the night mode thing. It's just the only problem with the night mode is that people go, why's your phone orange all the time? I can live with that.

Yes. People say, why is your font so enormous to me? You have massive font. Yeah. Tesla's phone's like a grandma's phone I'm on the biggest thing I'm on the biggest not quite the biggest I've seen

I've seen someone on the biggest It's like one letter And it's like it's like a Fisher price Yeah It's like it's absurd You can't read a text message Because it's so hard But mine's it's

It's tipping that way Yeah it is The initial instinct It's always like keep your phone Outside the room That you're like No Yes

That's like It's so insidious of like How addicted we are I'm so addicted I've stopped pretending But I'm not Because if someone was like I'm gonna put your jacket

Outside the room that was in your bedroom Take it See if I care Yeah you'd be like What? Go on then Who cares?

Yes Or like Or like I'm put your laptop Outside the room You'd be like Good Put it somewhere safe Like

But it's like I take this phone You're like No But it's a part of me That is a change That is a change that everyone can do That isn't overwhelming

Do you know what I mean It's not like a Well how am I going to be able To keep that out for six months Fine Has that ever have you ever had an emergency call I think secretly What it is is that

I want to say But what happens if I'll sort of wake up the night and I want to check Instagram. That's literally what I do. You're like, you don't. You feel just like so, it feels like a limb has come off and you can't like, you don't have, it's like when your phone runs out of battery and you're on the, like a long train or on the bus and you're just like, well, now what? Now I've only got my own thoughts and you're like, and you're literally like, what do people need me? I'm like, well, they didn't need me in the last 24 hours. Yeah. Or ever in my whole life.

Truth be told, no one's ever needed me. What sense will I be needed, you know? If you don't pick up the phone now, you're not going to get 50,000 pounds. That's that's, that's the fair. But it's not going to happen. It's not. It's not. So I think we've got some tips and stuff But I think pick like one and just do it Rather than be like right So I've got to do this, I've got to go this I've got to do this I think because then that

Then it becomes overwhelming And then the problem is is that we are fighting A societal structural issue We can't change So we've been given these things that stop us sleeping That are literally supposed to make us as addicted as possible Companies pour thousands of pounds To make us addicted to them

And then it's like why are you sleeping And then also we have been given hours and working structures that make it really difficult to be flexible with sleeping. And then it's like, well, why are you sleeping? And then also now we're getting home later because we're at work late. And then we're eating food that maybe isn't conducive to sleeping later. And then being like, well, your digestive system's working, you know, overtime, why are you sleeping? It's like all of these things are really unhelpful. TVs in the bedroom, watching Netflix.

Even sometimes like reading before bed is a thing that I do that, does tend to help, but the other night, read a book, I hit a bit, it was really good. It's because I'm thinking about it. How to finish the whole book? Went to the 3rd. Like, that's unhelpful. And so, I think there's so,

it's like with the eating healthy thing, you can be like, and so I can quit sugar. And I did quit sugar for like six weeks. And then stopped because it's like, there's too much stuff telling me not to. I'm only one person. I'm not a robot.

How is one person supposed to fight the machine? Like, they can't. Absolutely, yes. And I think it's about trying to, find that balance between accepting that, accepting how genuinely difficult it is to change your habits. When your job is 9 to 5, you probably live in a, it's somewhere where you are very close to other people. Yeah. Your neighbours or other people in your house, finding that lines be like, oh, I see why it's so tricky. And then not going too far and losing your mind and becoming a

survivalist. Not that they're crazy. And then we're going out as a message is being like, I'm a survivalist and I'm great. Yeah, I'm sure you are. I don't think you're listening to a podcast if you Maybe not. That's the thing is that they're quite right. We say they're crazy because they're living a lifestyle so different to this one. But it's so sensible. It's like, don't have any technology. Go and live in a field.

Eat things from the earth. Yeah. Like, yeah, absolutely. We've just made this lifestyle look more like glossy and appealing. One thing that I found very, very helpful is, so with the circadian rhythm thing that I mentioned before, it naturally dropped your body temperature and that's supposed to help you sleep. So people have their bedrooms. will like blast the heating in their bedrooms

to be like a warm warm bedroom no absolutely you should not have a warm and cozy bedroom it needs to be a fair no just a fair few degrees a fair few degrees below frozen that's what we're aiming for no if you don't have the duvee on

it's quite cool in there and you shouldn't wear socks either because that keeps your body temperature higher than it should be and you should kind of put your feet out of the bed but then the ghost girl will get you so that's the end of that impossible and it's dangerous tessa in many astral planes it's dangerous

so I found having like just a bit of the window open is incredibly helpful because then you get a draft in I always had the window open great some people don't some people are frightened maybe if ghost girls are climbing into the window I was afraid of vampires until I was about 25 making you feel a little bit more drafty than you think and that will sort of cheat the temperature and will help you go to sleep a lot more naturally

also someone said as well like one of the kind of classic tips of falling asleep So those nights, if you're not an insomniac, those nights where, you know, it's like three in the morning and you have tried everything. And you are tired, but you're not falling asleep. I hate those. Try and stay awake. To some reason it tricks your brain and then you will actually end up being, you will end up falling asleep. Yeah. It's that like pretend it's morning thing, isn't it?

Ah, yes. Yeah. Or like when you wake up and if it's a Saturday and then you're like, oh, I'm awake. How annoying. I don't have to be. Yeah. But then you like pretend that you have to go to work. And then you're like, oh, yes.

And then you realize that like the human brain is like such a cheek. so cheeky. It's such a cheeky so-and-so. It's such a cheek and so-and-so. It's all about perspective and like, why is everything so hard? Because we've, we've evolved in a way that is counter to how we're supposed to be sleeping. And then we've made, we've done it to ourselves and then we're like, why can't we sleep? And it's like, because of the world that we've made. Yeah, but. They sat in the bed with a, with a laptop in your bed with you. Yeah. Go, why can't I sleep? We did a sleep episode a while back and we spoke a lot about mattresses and like that's a bit that really annoys me not in the podcast as in like in life

that people say like get a really good mattress and a really good mattress is so expensive i got one free because tessa got in touch with eve and we're like look she's basically gone on about half share mattresses we do a podcast and they incredibly sent a mattress and it's the best thing and it's really changed how i sleep it's made things so much more comfortable and it's amazing but I hate that they're so expensive and so not everybody has access to that but there are mattress like memory foam mattress topers that you can get and I think they're way cheaper

and so much more doable and it feels like a yes what's a top are gonna do but it's gonna make it so much nicer than what it already is if you've given one of those like rented properties and you've got like some spring mattress that 7,000 people have slept on before you yes to have a match to have your own just psychologically if you're not sleeping on someone else's stuff

I saved up and got an Eve mattress, which is why I knew they were so incredible. And there are like various deals. If you see the adverts for them and if you look them up, like there are some, they are some good deals out there. But I up until that point, have been sleeping on this, the IKEA mattress that was in the room when I moved in on some pallets on the floor that were also in the room. That in my head I was like, oh, it's like a fun futon.

Like, it's low to the ground. Like, at one point one of the like wires of the spring was like out like a spike. And I was like, this has, this is an obscene. Like this, of course this isn't a nice way to sleep on this thing. And honestly, the Eve mattress was life changing. And every time I get in it, I go, oh, thank God. Yeah. Oh, God, that's wonderful.

I think the amount of hours you spend in bed is the same as you spend waking. So you're going to put money into something. It's one of, like, like, we've been so, the amount of lies we've been fed of this like, you know, work hard, have another coffee. stay up burning the midnight oil like power through all nights as at uni were like a badge of honour yeah exactly

that's exactly a badge of honour like they become the cool thing to do and like going to sleep is whimish whereas really like so much more valuable and good for you to go to sleep

and reset everything and wake up otherwise you exist either you can exist on less sleep at 40% you'll all your life or you can go to bed

I just yawned you can go to bed and be functioning on 100% Yeah, a hundy A hundy pee Would you So would you rather I like the ones where it's like

Would you rather have sex With your hands on your feet Would I rather have sex My hands on my feet? Hands You know those ones It's because you'd rather have a vagina For a mouth or penises for fingers

Right well clearly you've Hung around people that do Would you rather more than I have Oh my goodness we were obsessed with Would you Rather I got myself very upset about it once Because I imagined living in a world An actual would you rather world Where you actually had to make those choices

It all got a bit much Because then it wasn't just like a flippant idea it was like how horrifying. That is horrifying. If we all actually live there. Yes, I think you've taken it to a level that many don't. We were always doing it. Right, so it just became part of your kind of thinking.

Very much part of the day to day. Sure. Part of the day to day. That is quite stressful. I think I haven't done a would you rather game since I was like 19. That's why I said, would you rather have sex with your hands of your face? Yeah, a classic rookie mistake. What you're saying about?

Would you rather? Would you rather? I don't know back to sleep, but absolutely. It was about sleep. It was, would you rather have more hours. quantity or quality basically yes absolutely so would you rather have you were awake for more hours but you were functioning on at 40% of what you're capable of or you sleep for longer but you can do a better job absolutely the second one yeah this whole thing about like margaret thatcher and he had four hours

to sleep like this shows not but also like no she's not praised for a health and also did she do a good job to know really because what could she have done and should have had a proper sleep like it's a lot yeah it's that kind of thing about as well like the eight hour workday like yeah great eight hours of workday fine. You're not working for those eight hours a lot of the time. You're sort of fanning about or panicking or just sort of like being like oh this is a long day. Like if shorter days and better like working smart rather than

just long. Hard. Work smart not hard. You should work hard? It is work smart not hard. You think it's work smart not long? This is again, we're going on so many tangents. I'm really sorry guys. We're here to send you to sleep. We're here to send you to sleep. That's a while. Well, I know I talked about it before but about the medieval idea

that we didn't always used to sleep for eight hours a day that you used to have these like two sleeps. So you had like an early sleep when we didn't have any artificial light whatsoever. Yeah. Which we always forget that like that is such a recent thing. Yeah. So if you have like a street lamp outside your window, that's genuinely going to affect you going to sleep and you have to get some blackout blinds. You've got to get them.

You have to or just, you know, I don't know, some cardboard or something. That's not nice. No, just get some blackout blinds. It's quite hard though if you're in a rented property and you've got like a weird irregular window. I think if you're in a rented property, Everyone needs to just step up and call their landlord and be like, excuse me, there's a street layout outside. This is true. Maybe a bit nicer than I just did it.

Yeah, maybe like, hey. But inside that feeling, just stick to your guns. I'm like, I pay so much money to be here. Yes, I've completely forgot that a landlord was a thing and you could get them to do things like that. It's very important. Because you pay them. So make them do the thing that you pay them for. Yes.

They're your employee. Get a blackout blind if you have a street lamp outside. Go on. So artificial light in the medieval times. Just that we forget how recent artificial light is. And so therefore, in the medieval times, pre-time, pre-watches, pre-clocks, when time wasn't a thing, freaky to think about, isn't it? What, in the medieval times, they didn't have clocks?

No. When was time invented? Well, when more clocks invented? Start the 14th century. They're working on time and people, I guess the average peasant is like aware that time is a thing, but someone else is working on it and they don't know. Certainly no one's got like a watch. Yes. And so now it gets dark. You can't keep tilling the fields or whatever you're doing, so you have to stop. Yeah. You can't go and do it. And you're tired because you spent the whole day doing manual labour walking around. We literally spent the whole day just sat down now. Yeah.

So maybe you light a candle and you read some scripture. And then everyone's like, oh, I have enough for that. That it's boring. And then he goes to sleep. Boring. And then you just go to sleep. And then people used to wake up again. They went about at dusk and then woke up again in like the deep middle of the night, which I actually always think is a very peaceful, very calm time.

And everyone else is asleep. like I'm just doing my own thing here. Like you got some, like in the shadow land. Anyway, you woke up again. You read some more scripture. You had sex. You had a snack for an hour. Then you went back to bed again.

Lovely. First sleep, second sleep. See, this is interesting. Because I guess everyone has their own way of sleeping, but we're not allowed to have that anymore. No. Because we were supposed to have the eight hours. I think like, because in like the time travel movies

when like people plot back in time, everyone's like, oh yeah. I mean, people have got different clothes on, but we're joining right in. If you actually went back in time, I think it would be completely impossible to join in. Yeah. You would not be able to get a handle on. Well, firstly, when to sleep.

Yeah. Number one. Number one. Number one. My biggest book about it. But guys, when are we sleeping? And everyone's like, at the dusk. And you're like, well, what?

It's too early. There's no time. No one knows what time is anymore. Yeah. It would be so confusing. Yeah. And so humans, I think we sort of don't give credit to just how different things used to be and how quick we are to be, for things to become relative.

and we accept something so quickly. And also how okay it is, therefore, to not be able to sleep these days and how it's to not beat yourself up. Therefore, hence, to not beat yourself up because you can't sleep. Do not be, you know, if you're up at night because you're on Instagram or whatever,

that's fine. Like you literally, that's what they all want you to do. And, you know, it's really hard not to. The easy route is to not do these things. But I think out of all the things we've sort of mentioned today, just pick one. And then that will be a nice kind of like a step in the right direction

and I think we can only do a step in the right direction rather than overhaul our entire sleeping patterns and presume that that will hold for the next 10 years because one thing will beget another thing so I've changed to night mode now I'm going to put my phone outside the room I also because I was thinking about it

was like great I need a mattress got a nice mattress we've got a blackout blind and I think like you just then you just the ball starts running you start kind of but I think a lot of people focus I'm not going to get a pager that's one ball that won't be rolling the page of ball we put so much effort into our health

and into our well maybe not everyone does but we are very aware of what we shouldn't shouldn't eat what we shouldn't do physically what we you know everything else we should put as much effort into sleep at least as you do to maybe the other thing in your waking life that you're focused on and I think we've finally like books like this

like by Malcolm by Matthew Walker it's fascinating and really interesting and you should definitely read it If it is something that you would like to put the time into, the things are like literally treating yourself like a baby and putting yourself to bed the way you would have baby. And so like having a bath, putting on clean pyjamas.

Napi. And a nappy. Obsessed with the nappy. Like go to bed. Have a little, a read a story or like listen to a podcast or like listen to something. Dim lights as well. So to slowly kind of like get your... Yeah.

Dim, slow it down. Ease in and this process taking like, you know, you don't put a baby to bed by just like throwing it in. Oh, on sleep. Go on sleep then and then put a Netflix show on, on, and watch seven hours of that at the end of the baby's car. You'd be like, this is dreadful. It's not working. This is not what I came before.

You know, it's like so common. So if we do that and you're like, you haven't really progressed very fast since being a baby. So just keep doing that to yourself. And, you know, it should be that. As much as you feasibly can. Some nights you won't and some nights you can. So whenever you can, I guess. Yes.

Just like a little baby sleeping. Or any audio thing, you, if you just scroll up a little bit when you're playing an episode, you can click. You can click like five minutes, ten minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, and it'll stop. Do that. So you don't put one on and be like, I don't want to listen to this for hours. It'll go off of its own accord,

hopefully by the time you're already asleep. Amazing. Just a little, helpful little tip. A lovely nugget. A little nugget. For more nuggets, tweet us at Stevie M. B.S. is a five. At Tessacote's. You can email us at Nobody Panicpodcast.gum.

If you have got better at sleeping, if you are bad at sleeping. Any tips? Tips on how to be good at it. Gooder. Goodera. Then tweet us at Nobody PanicPic pod. And just try and try one thing this week that will help you sleep.

Just one thing. Just see how it goes. I believe in you. I believe in YouTube.