Nobody Panic - How to Smash Public Speaking

Episode Date: February 26, 2019

Nervous? Palms are sweaty? Something about your mother's spaghetti already? Get in here. Stevie and Tessa talk techniques for getting through that presentation/meeting/wedding speech without having to breathe into a paper bag. From where to put your hands to how to fake confidence.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. everybody and welcome to nobody panic welcome to this public presentation of nobody panic on public speaking public sporking this is a suggestion we had emailed into us by peggy quite a while ago it's back in November Peggy so I'm sorry but we do get round to it and um all about sort of public speaking dealing with nerves, speaking at the right pace and volume, what to do with your hands, all of that business. Now, it might sound like, you might be like, well, hang on, I'm not the mayor. The town squire. But I, but you do. I'm not running for office. And if you are, best of luck. Good luck. Um, I'd say listen to a different podcast, if I'm honest. We might not be

any help. We might not be any help. But you will do some levels to sort of the hummus. Getting it away, getting it stored away. Got a lot of hummus. We will. We will. We will. you will often be put into a position where you do have to talk in front of people. That will be a thing. And I think I certainly take it for granted those sorts of things. When I've ever been in an office and someone's been like, oh, can you, oh, like, we do pitch meetings. And you're like, you know, say at the beginning of say,

well, I think we should write this and this is why and this is how we do it. And you do in a group. And I have never had a problem doing that because at the same time, I was in a sketch group with my good friend, Tessa, who's, you can hear of typing now. She's just Googling me because she just... Oh, sorry, here like you. She's Googling the sketch group called Massif Dad.

We were doing that at the same time, and that was way more frightening. So the thought of pitching an article was like, fine, that's not public speaking. You want to see some public speaking? Come down to the Oxford pub in Kentish town tonight, and I'll show you some woman who's terrified of public speaking. But we used to be dripping a sweat, and we'd have to go to the toilet four to seven times. on rotation. That still happens to me personally. It's terrifying, but because it's, you're telling a joke, you're like, oh, that's not, basically when we were like, oh, a public speaking of a city, I was like, I don't know what to say, because I don't do that. And it's like, oh, no, we only

do that. That's what we do. It's so much easier when you can't see all the people doing a podcast is so much easier than doing it, like, on a stage, doing a panel or doing like any of those sorts of things is really nerve-wracking. And I basically forgot how nerve-wracking it can be, because all that, but every time I do a gig, I'm terrified. But then it's got easier. So then we thought, well, we might actually be able to help. Because while we probably have less experience of doing like, you know, best man's beaches and presentations to a new client. Presentations to a new client.

But I've done quite a few presentations at various jobs. But also, I think it's all the same thing. It all is terrifying. It's all the same thing. It's all standing up, having people looking at you, being the centre of attention, and having to say things eloquently. Even just saying it's making me feel quite nervous. Yeah, it is actually.

And it also, like, is a certain, like everyone I think is good at various elements of public speaking, but very few people are good at all of the elements. So, like, my, I'm okay, I know I'm not good at structure, so I often race to ideas before, like, explaining them fully, and then I wonder why no one knows what I'm talking about quite frequently. That happens in my comedy,

and it also happens in presentations and stuff and people are like, sorry, why have we moved on to this? Like, oh, I didn't explain because I thought you were in my head. Sorry. So it's all, but I don't have a problem with appearing confidence. So I sort of look like I'm really having a fine time often when I'm doing like a presentation at work, even if I am worried.

But I know a lot of people will have different elements of it that they're good and bad at. So we'll try and touch on like as many as possible. But you will, if you're listening, you're like, I could never do that. I could never stand up in, you know, at a meeting and explain something to the board. Again, my examples are examples of work-based things will sound like we've never been out of the

house, but I think they are all the same thing. You are still standing up and having to present ideas an ineffective way and communicate them and not look like an idiot. And also, I would say over half of that is fear and mastering your nerves, because if you can master your nerves, then you can basically get through anything. I think it's about 90% of it. Yeah. And I I think it's something that so many people have, well, people say it all the time when you do a show, people say like, oh my God, I could never, I could never do that. Yeah. Which I think is a way of saying like, I wish I could do that.

I wish that wasn't a fear for me. I wanted to be able to do it. And so many people, especially as I watch my friends progress in their jobs and become badass bitches. Like, I see them be like, you know, get themselves nervous about having to do presentations or about having to speak to increasingly higher level. people as they themselves become higher. And when you were the intern and you were like, I don't want to do a presentation. Everyone was like, well, you're the intern.

But when you're literally the senior partner, everyone's like, do the presentation. What's wrong with you? Do the presentation, Margaret. You're the senior. Or Margaret. Karen Margaret, you're the senior partner. Yeah.

Do your presentation. And you're supposed to be fine at that. It's like you, it's like by having that title, then like, yes, and you've gone through your public speaking training. Yes. But very few people actually get public speaking training. And even when you do, it's very false. and it's not in a real scenario.

And also, on top of that, you're also worried that the things that you're saying aren't going to be well received. Like, what if, one of your facts are wrong? So there's like things, but then there are things you can eliminate to make sure that you give yourself the best shot, I think, and test of things.

And also, we've done she? She might do, we don't know, we'll find out. But before we do, what's... Wait, wait, wait, I usually want to say on that thing of thinking, I'm the worst public speaking in the world. Yes. I can't do it.

firstly, remember that you are. You are. And goodbye. Remember that you are. No. You are. No, firstly remember when you're beating yourself up about not being, once you've got in your head that you can't do a skill,

firstly, do remember all of the things that you can do that come totally naturally to you that other people might struggle at. Yeah. And that might be sewing, cooking, singing, running, reading, writing. Every other aspect of a job. Flying, anything that you might be able to do, that somebody, and if you feel like, nothing, I can't do nothing. you're 100% have got a skill that someone's been like, wow,

and you've been like, oh yeah, it doesn't. That's why you've been asked to do a presentation, whatever that is, presentation or speech or anything. They wouldn't have asked you if you were completely pointless as a human. They didn't just get you off the street, like you are and be like, unless they did, in which case, I'm sorry. You're just walking off the street and you're like, I'm underqualified for this role.

And the other thing is that everybody experiences the same level of, like, the same, everyone is experiencing those nerves and the things, it's just about people who can channel those nerves in a different way and that is purely practice. Yeah, absolutely. So that is 100% in your grasp when you look at other people doing it and you're thinking, or you're looking at, you're looking at people on the stage, you're going to see a play and you're like, oh my God, they're so confident.

And they were like, I vomited two minutes ago. Or like the first time I ever did, even on my own, so I'd already done stuff with Tessa and Liz and I'd done plays and things. The first time I did it by myself, I brought my director along and he was like, yeah you looked absolutely terrified like no one's gonna laugh and no one laughed and it was the worst

thing it was like a child but you know I was like 29 but I was like a little baby child trying to do something that it doesn't understand and was frightened of yeah I was terrified of the audience I was terrified of moving I was dripping in so that my mouth was dry and that's never happened to me in terms of the stage

and yeah and I came off being like as normal oh I but I bet I didn't look frightened because I don't normally look frightened, even if I am, and Adam was like, you look so terrified. And then, you know, you fast forward two years. I'm still, haven't managed it. And it's the same. But I'm better at hiding it. Like, and you just get better at hiding. And that's the same with any type of public speaking. The more you do it, the less you think about it. And then you don't even, then it just won't become a thing. Well, I think a part of it, especially if you, like, you know, you go into

your new job and now you have to do a presentation, you're like, why am I so bad at speaking? Like, I used to be good at, I was in the school play. Like, I played the lion. Like, I was good. I roared. And I roared. That's like, that's because you were the lion. Like, the lion went on and did the thing. Yes.

And so now, here for the first time, you're having to stand up and say, like, here are my ideas. Here's me as a person. Here are my mannerisms. Here are my mannerisms. Here is me. This is me. That's a different greatest shaman. I'm not there.

I'm not there. I'm not there. No apologies. This is me. Oh. That's you. That's you. We're talking about you.

That's it. And it's a really... And it's scary and you feels incredibly vulnerable and it's not a natural thing to go through. But there are things you can do. We'll get you through it. Peggy et al.

Okay, right. What adult thing? Come on. Hit me with it. I just look around my room if I'm finding an adult thing. I'm looking for inspiration. You will not find out there.

Got one of those waitrose vouchers where if you spent 20 pounds, you got four pounds off. Okay. Spent it before it expired. That is actually, that's good. That is good. Actually, congrats.

Thank you. Spent it on alcohol. Yeah, fine. Doesn't mind I always spend it on. Thank you. It's the time limit. Yes. Buy that, please.

I would like that. So then you bought it. Yeah. Great. It's a great tale. Thank you. Mine is exactly the same level of boring. Yeah.

I registered my Tesco Club card because I had it, I've had one, and I had it on a little fob. And there's literally a Tesco's out, like, near my house. And I've not registered. So I'm lost.

one ages ago basically over the years one has kind of become detached from my account and so it doesn't do anything it just tops up someone else's club god or something I don't know I don't get any of the posts anymore they don't recognise it so I re-registered it to my new address and I've been living here for a year and a half that's fantastic now may I say something about club cars are they point absolutely not right they're fantastic in which case say away but who is that um you when you got a bunch of monies stored up in there don't spend it in the store.

Okay. It is three times more valuable if you go online. I mean, this is an adult thing, isn't it? This is great. So if you just take it, you can buy, if you just buy groceries with it, so say you've got £10 worth of points, that's £10 in store. If you go online, you can spend it on those like away days. You can buy train tickets with it.

You can buy your young person's rail card, for example, if you're still allowed. So it's worth train tickets. A red letter away days. A hot air balloon. absorbing. So some more fun stuff, but also practical things. Yeah, train tickets is practical. I see, and that just is worth more rather than onions.

It's worth three times the price than it is to buy some onions. So go and do that. I'll do that. Martin's money tips. Thank you. Thank you. That's actually fresh from Debbie Coates, of course. Of course.

I wouldn't expect anything else. Okay, great. I mean, that probably is the most business-like adult thing we've ever done it. Just rattling through. The adult thing is the one that's like always takes the most time. Well, I don't know if any, Middies. They need to pat it out.

But I was just going to say something with the adult thing. It's, yeah, me again, more on this. I don't know if anyone has read, Dolly Alderton's fantastic. Everything I know about Love book. And now, the paperback now has an extra chapter about like everything I know about being 30. I don't know. And which she talks about how the young,

whatever age you are, you do like holiday tourism into like the decade above. Yes. And a sort of ironic way. So when you're young, you might have like gone away for the weekend. It was like, ha, how we're being ironic. like we're going for a walk and a pub lunch

you know and then you get the old thing you get that's just the stuff yeah just talks about having like a herb garden on and that it used to be like kits and like sort of ironic and then actually it's just very sensible way of buying herbs yeah you know and then like increasing the stuff you know the little ironic things you do become your like and then you have to start going on like an ironic

cruise or something just to keep going on an ironic second marriage yeah exactly right yeah right public speaking you're nervous so you're sweating Your nerves are sweaty. Spaghetti. I feel like to cover all the bases,

if you don't have to make a joke, don't. Okay. So I think that a lot of people feel pressure to be something that they're not when they're doing anything from a best man speech to a presentation. That's the kind of gamut that we're running here. I think people have seen someone else do it

and be like, well, I've got to be like them. And if you're not like that, if the thought of having to do an incredibly funny best man speech, or best woman speech makes you feel terrified, then do a lovely, sincere one. Yes. You don't have to make people laugh.

You could do something creative with your best woman speech, your best person speech. With a presentation, it's about the information. So you may have, there may be someone in the office who's just like, I don't know,

makes everyone, just makes pie chart really funny. But that's them. Yeah. And you rely on the thing that you're good at and you can control and makes you feel confident.

So if you genuinely would like, I think I just would feel better, just, you know, I think I can crack a few gags. Great, do it. But I'm just saying like, if you don't have to, don't put that pressure on yourself.

Yes. Because I think that's the first thing of like when you're creating the thing you're going to be saying or if you're given the thing that you're going to be saying, just remove all elements of what will people think of me

out of this equation because you cannot control that. You can't control. Even people who have been doing, like just taking like the joke thing people who've been doing comedy for 25 years and do arena's stadiums they'll crack up a specific

joke and you know half the room will laugh off and you won't look at the state of the BAFTAs oh Joanna I didn't even watch it and I hear it was quite bad news yeah bad bad she didn't write them that someone obviously gave her so if you've got control over what you're saying concentrate on the things first

like write down in a bullet point form the things that you need to communicate across so if that it's a best message, you need to talk about the groom and the bride. Things that you, like, some key stories that you would think would be really funny. How you want to make your audience feel and then just focus on those things. And then if in the making of it, you know, you get some, it sort of starts to take on a life of its own and you really get into it. Brilliant.

If you don't, then you are still doing exactly what you want to do with exactly what you need to do without worrying about well if someone that so-and-so had done it then it would they would have done this or they would have done a song doesn't matter like you're doing it you're doing it you got asked to do this you got asked to do this you've chosen to be here and most people aren't natural public speakers like otherwise they'd be in jobs that particularly required public speaking so if you're in a job that like

occasionally there's like a presentation that you have to do no one's expecting you to be like I was going to say no one's expecting you to be like Ken Dodd. What a reference. Because otherwise, everyone will be like, well, go and pursue your career as Ken Dodd or Obama. Or Obama, yeah. You're clearly not in the right place here and everyone can tell that you're sort of David

Brent who like wants, you know, wants to be somewhere else. Like, this isn't the place, this is a workplace. Yeah. And we're trying to, you know, advertise Hovis here. Like, get out, Ken Dodd. Ken, Lee. And with a wedding, obviously it's always fun when like someone smashes a speech. But everyone in that room knows that, that,

the feeling of being asked to do or thinking about or the concept of a best man speech or a speech at a wedding and how frightening that is and how that's not your job, you're like, you're far as so you've got the room on side already because everyone's so relieved that they weren't asked. Exactly, and also we've all seen wedding crashes

the first wedding they go to or earlier, whatever, the wedding they go to when they meet the girls. Yeah, I can't remember. Who knows? I don't know. They, who is it in that film? Owen Wilson. And Vince Vaughn's in it. Yeah, he's the girl. That's bad that I don't know. Pamela Anderson. Ken Dodd. Yeah so Ken Dodd meets Pamela Anderson

and she says I'm going to do the, I'm doing the speech for my sister and he's like yeah yeah run it past me. She's like oh my goodness, thank you. And she reads and she's like, um, so I knew my sister and Sean would always be best friends. They like the same thing, the color green like my sister's eyes and the color of money. And then he's like, ee, yee, and then she's like, and then she's, like, what, that's a great joke? And he's like, no, no. And then she does the speech, obviously it goes so badly. And everyone's like, ha ha, and then she sees him at the back and he just like points to his heart, like, from the heart. And then she says, like, love is finding the soul's counterpart in another. And I'm so glad that my baby sister found that. And everyone's like,

well, I love it. Right. So like, if it's gag, gag, gag, gag, gag central, like, you know, what are we really getting here? But if you like, you, this is your moment to like stand up and say your peace about another person. Like, forget everybody else really in the room. Like, just say the thing to them. But you want to say to that person. That's really awesome. If it's a work thing, people don't want the gags.

No. Or the, like, daring and incredible charisma. They want to know how the numbers are. Again, it's very difficult for me to do a new examples. Just tell us the thing that we're here for. Just get that information across. And to do it in the clearest way, once you get down to brass tacks, that's actually quite simple to do. Because you know how, you know how to tell somebody something.

If you were explaining something to me about your job, You'd start with, you'd go chronologically, don't start putting twists in. You'd like, don't, don't. You wouldn't begin at the back and they'd be like, flashback, flashback, flashback, memento style. Like, it's tattooed on my body. You go through it in the most simple way possible.

What I also have started doing with my comedy because I don't explain things very well and I've started to try and make it easier for people to understand what the hell I'm doing. I do it a very, very simple, boring, explainy kind of skeleton. And then on top of, that I try and lay a stuff on that, in my case, jokes. In your case, if you're listening,

whatever you need to do for that particular bit of public speaking, if that is a best man thing or a wedding thing, your skeleton could literally be, I'm happy you guys have met. This is why. I love her and him because of these reasons. Thank you so much for being hit a toast to the happy couple. And then you've got your structure. And there you're your subheadings and then you just go in with each subheading and then you can like, you know, embellish or whatever. with a work presentation, you have like, these are the numbers, this is why, and then you put in all the evidence and all of the kind of fancy stuff and all of the interesting stuff and all the thing that makes presentations go on for so long. Also, try and keep it as short as possible,

always helpful. But like, then you add the stuff, so you basically do it in stages. And that's, and that obviously has got nothing to do with you and how you're talking, but I think being prepared and having full confidence in the thing that you're doing is like the first base level thing that you can control. So if you go out being like, oh God, I didn't research it enough. Like, or I don't actually know why am I starting at this point? Like, if you go out and you know exactly why you're saying everything and why and you've explained it all and you feel like, yes, and you've practiced it on it on someone else if you can or you've sent over the notes to someone else and been like, you know, you've double-checked every fact. Then, then you can start dealing with

like the nerves separately rather than the nerves are caught up in the fact that the thing you're doing you don't really believe in. Like at school you learned, it was so wide. At school we learned that, you know, in this essay I will. Yeah, I was always like, that's too clever for me, I'm going to come in with a quote, and then no one knows what I'm talking about. Exactly. And anytime you try and learn to do anything,

but particularly in any form of like artist thing, or write essay writing, it's like, I'm too avant-garde, I'm a tortured genius, like, I'm messing with the form. Would Bukowski have started in this essay? I don't think he would. No way. You're shat on the paper. Exactly.

And then wrapped it up, how did that it? A-star. Like, oh, harsh-marking from you. But like, as somebody said, Mark Twain, perhaps, learning your craft will not take away your genius.

That's very good. Understanding the structure. And so they say that about it. So that's why it is like, in this essay, I will. Break it down, break it down. In conclusion, these points. And also, further more.

It's like, there is a reason that that is the way that people write things. Because it's how we understand. And when you're like, learned write comedy as like, um, not so much gag writing, which has its own mathematical formula, but also like a comedy story. They say like, like, write a drama. And if it works as a drama, then it can be a comedy. Like, it is a story. Like, then you can build, like, here's your skeleton. Then you can build your stuff on top of it. What is it? What are you saying?

Rather than if it's like, what I thought I'd do is like, I'd come out of a box at the beginning of the presentation to be like, thinking outside the box, then I'd do a small rap. Then everyone's like, but why? Why are we? Give me the numbers, Janet. Why are we watching this? If you've got all that sort of and you double-checked everything and you feel confident that what you're going to say out your mouth is what you want to be saying, then it's about,

then it was all about nerves. And that is, as I said, 90% of it. And I think we can help with that. How do you deal with nerves when you're about to go on? Your period. About to get on period. No, I go to the bathroom so many times. and then I go to the bathroom all day

it becomes like a colonic situation after a while and this is a thing about like it's not an immediate fix the only answer is practice which if you're at the beginning of the process you're like oh my god I can't go through this but I promise you it's like gonna get better someone told me something sorry to interrupt someone just I remember I read something somewhere about those nerves

and about the physical manifestations of nerves so before you're about to do some public speaking and you're terrified you may go to the loo a lot, you may shake, your mouth might go dry. And then your brain goes, look at all of these symptoms, and then it exacerbates it. So then you start getting anxiety, and then because you're more anxious, then you start sweating more, and then you can't stop. However, there's a school of thought that believes that this reaction, the palm sweaty, dry mouth, and that kind of pacing feeling that you just want to be anywhere else, is actually your body sort of preparing itself for behalf.

That's exactly what it is. So it's not like, it's actually not a negative. It's a full positive. It's giving you all the adrenaline. So you'll be able to get through whatever happens. But we interpret it often as nerves. So that adrenaline is going to be there regardless. Yeah.

Sometimes it will be after you've done 100 presentation on the go. It'll be less than it was at day one. But like the adrenaline will always be there. And it is your job to choose whether you channel that and it takes you down or it pushes you forward. And so that adrenaline is like fire. it can heat your home or it can burn it to the ground. Right. And you can just decide whether you keep that fire contained in the fireplace

or you freak out and you let it burn your house down. Yeah. And so, but it's always going to be there. So there is no point where you're like, oh my God, one day I'll go away and then I'll be able to do it. It's like you never going to never go away. It's just when it happens, if you're worried that you're going to get a dry mouth or you're worried that you are going to sweat,

you can do certain things to help you. Make sure you have like a lot of water nearby that you can just keep sort of sipping. that's absolutely fine and also looks very proficient I think when people are like a pause if you're worried that you're going to sweat then wear something that you won't see

the sweat that's important as well because that's the worst thing when you're like I've got a light grey I can't I can't move my arms because the sweat is so much and also shaking and things like that people often feel very nervous because when they hold the paper

I feel like this when I hold paper or a script or something and I'm nervous my handshake actually Nish Kumar has that as well he's handshake and I love of him, I think actually on this podcast, he would always open or have the first thing that he said, something that he didn't need to be holding anything, or that he would be able to confidently put his hands down by his sides so people wouldn't see it shaking.

Yeah. And then when he gets into it, his hands stop shaking, so it's okay, and I'm the same. And you can do the same thing if you're thinking about a presentation. If you're worried that your hands are going to shake, then organize a situation where you have cue cards in your hand like this, rather than a big piece of paper that's going to shake all over the place, if you're reading off something. read off an iPad or read off a laptop. You don't have to do amazing stuff with your hands. You just put them by your side. You feel like suddenly your hands and your arms are like, whew-like, why,

what are they here for? What is the point of them? What do it? Now I'm pointing, why have I pointed? Do you just have a pre-organized place that you're going to put your hands? I often find like clasping my hands together helps makes me like a politician or put them down by your sides or hold an iPad or a laptop. And then you've covered the physical problems that you're worried people will notice. You've already got them covered. So you don't have to worry about them now because the moment you go up, you're going to have a dry mouth, but you're fine because you've got your water. Your hands are going to shake, but you're okay because you've got your laptop. So those sorts of things, you can then have a bit of confidence to know that, because that's the kind of

the next thing, isn't it? It's all about pretending. It's all about pretending. I was going to say that something I used to do if I'm doing a set and there's like an emcee and then they introduced me as long as I'm not like well no anytime I'm on I then say thank you so much and give it up for the amazing Ken Dodd yes or whatever and then I then there's a pause for me and like then there's an applause for Ken Dodd yeah it's not for me so everyone can whoop and cheer but it's like I'm just on the stage and then I have this moment to breathe and to like regroup and so you haven't just come on into silence but like hello everyone so I used to just like deflect away

and so similarly you know if you gap on for the presentation thank you so much and what a fantastic piece that was about about bread I think we all learnt something Sheila and now and continue and we're continuing you're just like that's what comes out of your mouth of that and also it makes you look you know nice generous nice nice yeah kind

humble if anything humble and if no one's been on before you can just say something like yeah thank you so much for asking me to do this presentation let's get started exactly that's your opening bit that's the thing that you say so you don't just get up there and it's not just hot, white noise. Right, so, well, here we go.

Should we start now? Like, you don't want any of that because then you'll, no one minds that. And also, crucially, it's not for the audience or the people are looking at you or the people in the meeting. It's for you. Like, it's for you.

You all feel stupid if you go up and you don't have anything to say before you just go into it, like a robot. So you know that you go up, this is your opening bit, and then we're going to deep dive into other things once the white hot panic has descended, what to do,

once it's begun. But just another thing about the pretending thing. It's like, there's that famous quote about like 70% how you look, 20% how you sound, 10% what you actually say. Yeah. And Eddie Azad has a whole thing about it, about, you know. I haven't seen it.

Oh, it's in his early work. Oh, great. Go and watch it. But that's the statistic. When somebody is watching someone on the stage, and they said it about politicians initially. Yeah. When you're watching a politician,

it's 70% how they look. And so we are so, it's about the president who said, Ike benign, Berliner. I mean, he tried to say, I am a ballerner, but said, I'm a small cake or whatever the expression is. Great. And how people just sort of let it go, not even they're like, no one even really registered it because he was so confident, he looked fantastic and sounded good and eloquent. And so everyone was like, no one really cared about the content particularly or what the words were.

And so if you can get yourself into that mindset, that sort of Sasha Fierce-esque, like, I'm a person now who is doing a presentation. It's not me. It's this confident character. and you can totally choose to like shift that mindset. Something that always made me go from like hot white nerves to being like, oh, I've got this, is watching like the first three people on. Yeah. And being like, oh, you're so shit.

You were so bad. Like if you can do it, like so can I. And then sort of taking that pressure away from yourself. And also realizing when you watch someone else's presentation, how sort of little you care. Yeah, remember. Think back to other presentations you've seen. Yeah, and everyone's just interested in the thing you're saying. No one notices the person saying it.

No. That's why I smile, I mean, I'd smile, I do just like being on the stage, but like, we got told that, didn't we, by John Monkhouse. Mm-hmm. Who said that your brain can't tell the difference. You know, a smile that it's made and a smile that you've created. He told us to, like, stand like we were Wonder Woman. Yes, and smile.

With beaming smiles, and it tricks the part of your brain. So obviously don't do that sat in the meeting ready to go up. No, that's frightening for those around. But if you can, like, take a moment in the bathroom beforehand. hands on hips, Wonder Woman, or hands in the air like a superhero and being like a crazy person and after about 30 seconds your brain is like

oh I guess... I'm smiling, I guess I'm making a mistake for her. Sorry, my bad everyone, I thought we were freaking out but I guess we're thrilled. So, okay, can't wait. And like, you know, and if you go up with that confidence and it's totally, it's a total facade,

it's like, you know, you just have to embody that person if you go up with that confidence, everyone's like, okay, I mean, I'm bored and I'm waiting for lunch, but like this person looks like they've got this under control, I believe you. I believe in you and I believe that you're fine and I'm not freaking out for you. Yeah.

And then if that sort of... And also, I don't say that the very second time ever that I did stand up by myself, I did one night at this like Comedy Virgin's night where you could go up and do five minutes. You go up and do five minutes and anyone was allowed to go and you sort of put your name on the list and did that. But was also, you know, got through it, did five minutes. And then got asked to go to Swansea to a friend's gig that we'd done as a scale. group and it was in a pub and seven people had come and I was like fine I can I can do that yeah I can do my same five minutes to seven people in the pub no problem um got to the gig and it was in the swanzy grand

in front of 250 people and there was like an emcee who'd been on Netflix Liam Williams like all these like famous people doing the show and I didn't have any material like I had just gone to this night and done five minutes and just sort of talked about this man's hat on the front row. And I think I wanted to tell a sort of weird story about my grandma and or how when we were all old we'd be racist about aliens. Like that was my, that was my thing. And I remember being like, I don't think I can do this. And I went out and, um, spoke to them in Welsh for a bit. That was, took up 30 seconds of my 10 minutes. And then after that, I didn't have anything to say. Oh my God. And it is actually, every time I hear you tell the story, it's the, it's the most

terrifying thing I've ever heard anyone having to do in the world of comedy. I, I, I, I, It's actually a full nightmare You have no jokes It's a nightmare It's not like Oh well I can't do my old stuff Yeah Like I don't have anything

It was like oh this is going back Because now if I did a gig in something about I was like oh I'll tell them this joke And I'll get off the stage Now I was like I don't have any material I'm any material And I remember like beginning this bit It didn't have a funny it was going badly

And it didn't have a funny ending So there was nowhere for this thing to go Oh my God It was like silence 200 people in total silence I couldn't see anyone Because the lights were so bright and I was just stood there on the stage.

I could see the mic in front of me on the mic stand. I couldn't pick it up because I was too nervous. And I thought, I sort of laughed in my head and was like, oh, this is an actual nightmare. Like, this is, this is bad. Like, this is the stuff that I would appear in like a joke, a joke. Like, this is beyond bad. And I didn't wake up. And then I sort of breathed and I got through it and I finished what I was trying to say.

And I thanked them very much and said, have an amazing night. much I can test the coates goodbye and I got off the stage and everyone sort of backed it and then they clapped me and then everyone sort of was like cool cool set that was a cool bit about Trump and I was like thanks and I was like when it sat in the alleyway outside and then I had a dominoes and then it was fine like and the thing is that like even though I think about it a lot a I made two Edinburgh shows and like I've got some stuff like I got over it and through it two like it was and also like I can't think anybody in that room remembered that I wasn't any good Oh, that's the thing.

They will just forget. They totally forgot. No one really knew my name. Unless something incredibly unlikely happens, like all your clothes fall off. Or like, I don't know, something totally, which that's the thing that keeps the fear going. Because you're like, oh my God, what I'll fall off though.

They won't. They won't remember. Nobody remembers. The only person in that room who remembers what happened with me. Yeah. And I remember it exquisitely. Like it was yesterday. But no one else remembers.

And so that's the thing that's like no one else really cares. And also my take home from that is like nothing happened. Like I went so far down that I thought I was about to wake up. Like that's how bad the nightmare was. And yet I breathed, I was still alive, like nothing happened. Yeah. It was just like, and so once you've been down there, I really couldn't. As my mum kept saying, it can't get any worse now.

She kept saying, she's right. She's right. I think as well with any sort of public speaking is the fear of silence. That's my personal fear. And the moment I realized that I can actually have a port. whenever I fancy and that when that pause happens only I know it's because I'm freaking out everyone else just goes to shove it and a pause and I think and I remember might as well bring up Eddie is odd considering he was just brought up then he has this like nice way even

when he's doing his massive stadium shows and they're filmed where he'll finish a little bit and then he'll go like ah so that's that what else I want to say oh yeah and then he just go into it and it's not like so slick and bad am he's just having a thing and there's something very human about having a think. Nobody's expecting you to go through it like a lightning bolt. Peggy mentioned about pacing and the right volume. You know, it's very difficult to control the right volume because it depends on what room you're in. You just have to focus on the person furthest away from you and be like, will they realistically be able to hear me? But with the pace, that is really important because you have to go slower than you think, always, and that's so much better.

Because if the advice was, you've got to go quicker than you think, that'd be terrifying. Whereas going slower, it will feel like you're in slow motion. You'll feel like everyone's like, well, yeah, please finish the end of that word today. But people need to process the information that you're giving them. And the time it took you to say, what was the next thing? Oh, yeah, was about 10 seconds. Or in that 10 seconds, I could go, oh my God, oh my God, what is the next? Oh my God, I'm so sorry, everyone.

Oh, hang on. Like, those are this, that's the same amount of time. Yeah. It's just this choice about like what you. you choose to outwardly do in it. In our French oral exam, I remember them teaching us to say, I can't even think now.

Um, hmm, Kesku, Kesea. Or something, something like that. Just to say? Yeah, it was something like, hmm,

Zoot. Or some kind of French saying that made, it was like, ay, maybe they were just fucking with us. But it was something French to, for you to have as a cover

when you panicked. Oh, that's excellent. So if you couldn't think what the question was. The private schooling system everyone I did not, ever happened. So if you it's a lot, yeah,

it's a lot about hoop jumping and I do, I'm fucking good at jumping. You're all very good at it. Because I'm, because they taught us like this is the hoop, work out the sneakiest way. And that's how life is, is getting through the hoop. Whereas when you don't get taught that, you think, well, I've got to do it right. I've got to be the best jumper in the

world, that's the only way to the hoop. And then we got lower the hoop, lower the hoop and get a ladder, mate. And you're like, what? Yes. No one said you could do that. It's like, course you can. You just didn't, you just didn't, you just didn't you haven't got a, you didn't, you weren't explained, the full rules weren't explained to you. Yeah, yeah, because they are part of the rules. That's why the whole, like, if you're nervous, do this.

Like, don't, don't try and hide the nerves. Yeah, it's not about, like, you're right, that person gets up, like, you know, I talk about it all the times. I'm so obsessed with this thing about Obama, learning people's name tags when he's shaking hands and three down the line. Like, Obama looks like a cool guy because he works incredibly hard at looking like a cool guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're not just like, I wish I was as cool as Obama.

Like, go on them, put the practice in. Go ahead. Do it. You can be as cool as Obama, if you like. I mean, not quite, but you can be 90. Yeah, he has got the edge. He's got an edge, sure, but it's an edge that is like finally tuned. He already had a bit of natural talent, but like, you can, you've got that, you can do it.

Anyway, the French thing was, it was literally a cover when you panic, and you can't think what the question is, or you don't speak French in my case. You just said, ah, con, con, con, con, or something. So the pause was not silence, and it was not, oh my God, what is it? What are you asking me? Iska-say? Yeah, it was like, it sounded French and it sounded confident. As a result, you felt confident because you felt like a French person. You felt like a French person going, no.

Yeah. That's a great tip. Have something to say when you are having a thing. This is a pause. I'll say my special thing. I'll say, I'm going to finish. Yeah, I don't, you could learn a French phrase. Yeah, if you like.

Or tell that story that Tesla says. Just pause there and be like, guys, sorry, one second. I listen to this podcast and this girl says. And also like not, and this is something that I think you truly cannot do until you've done it a few times and been like, that was dumb. I shouldn't have done it. is when things go wrong or you're like, oh, that's heavy. Has anyone ever felt this? That's heavy.

This lectern is heavy. You, you know, you're like, oh, this laptop. Oh, it's weird. You commentate on everything. Because it's an instinct and you want to try and express to people what's happening to you. And they're like, I don't care, Margaret.

Do the thing. Do the thing here for. I used to do that the very first time I got on the stage and tried to pick the microphone out of the mic stand. And I was like, guys, if you ever held one of these? And I was like, no, we've come to a comedy. paid so you do it. And if you ever see me, like I literally don't pick it up

because I can't... I don't do it. And then I tried to... Sometimes you see a cool comedian, like, get the twizzily thing and lower it and, you know, while they're chatting and stuff. And it was just me hysterical, being like, is I never tried to... Several of you listening have probably had to come on stage

and help me move the mic stand. Like, that's how bad I was at it. And like, you know, you only... It takes you two of those to remember your brain and be like, the mic's heavy, and you'll be like, no. Not for the voice. Don't say it. That's not to go out loud.

Yeah. It's about learning to take things in your stride and I think possibly you can't learn to do that until you've had some happen. So the first time you do it, you just have to put everything in place. Like we're saying, research everything. Know what you're doing, like, pre-organise as much as you can. You know what you're going to do with your hands. You're going to hold them together in front of your body.

Or you're going to put them by your side. Or you're going to hold something. Put them on your hips. Put them on your hips. Quite sassy. You might feel that's... Tessa, you're going to do. do that in a very natural way, I can't do that. Tessa puts her hands on her and she looks quite

like chilled out. When I do it, I look like... Put your hands to the back more, like hands down at the back, there you go. Now you look like you're a cheese woman, like watching the cheese. There we go, I'm a cheese woman watching the cheese. Is that cheese going to curdle anytime soon? Look at... Is that a load-bearing wall? Yeah, right? It feels quite... It feels quite cool. So you'll have a position or a stance that you know that you're going to take and do that, have that. Have your glass of water, make sure that you have the thing you're going to say if there's a little pause, always have notes. Don't try and learn stuff if that panics you. Don't learn anything. Just have it all on key card. And even if you do know it off by heart, have it with you. It doesn't

make a difference if they're just there. And then you've just got that safety. Just exactly like, no one cares. Put those safety. Lower the hoops and get a ladder. Yeah. Get a safety net. Like, get those notes in front of you. Have all those things around you. Make it as easy for yourself as you possibly can. You don't have to make this weird, like, everyone else can do it without, like, sure, who cares? And also, probably the whole weekend doing it. Panicking. If you don't want to. No, you can be a silence. So I don't know, I hope, I hopefully that helped in some way. Thank you very much, Peggy, for sending that in. And may I do one? Oh my God, of kids, of course, I always do that. No, please. Well, you're quite

rightly, you're like, your time's up. Get off the stage. You can't play the music. Get her off. Get her off. I was just about, there is a thing about particularly women, though I don't like to make gender sweeping statements, that like women inflected

a question upwards. And so it's like, is the sea warm? The sea isn't warm? Like, and everyone's like, I don't know, is it? But the sea, it's warm. Everyone's like,

hmm. Downward inflection. Get that, get that like calming voids. And also if you do go into that hot white panic, and we've all been there, remember that time

is currently moving for you 12,000 times. slower than it is outside your body. Yeah. So even though you're like, we've been here 100 years, you haven't. Like, no one else can even tell. Take a breath in, breath out, make sure both feet are on the floor.

If you're probably like sort of rocking or something. Like just be aware of your own... You're on fire. Literally on fire. So just be aware of your own movement. Ground yourself. If you need to like put a hand on a hip or a hand on the table or just like, I'm here. Yeah. Everything is okay. Like, it's okay. I'm gonna... My brain will catch up in a second.

Even if your brain is like literally a hot white tumbleweed. you're like, there's nothing in there. Look at your cue cards. Where's the stuff around you? Like, it will come back to you. Like, this moment will pass. Just like breathe through it. It is, you know, maximum five seconds.

And then it will be gone. And the last thing is to do loads of watching of other people, to like watch other people in presentations, be like, what are the things that you thought like, that was weird? Ted talks are good for that. I'm quite short. And they're always like,

they don't necessarily have to be good at public speaking to do a TED talk. No. And often they aren't. What are the ones? Don't watch the American ones if you're not. American though what's the British people yeah and be like oh that when they walked like like that that made everyone feel good when they walked like that everyone felt quite awkward like oh that was a weird joke that was a good joke like and you can just quietly absorb and

take in anything that you like from other people and then if you have access to it or I mean everyone does you've all literally all got a smartphone and film yourself doing your presentation yeah and be aware of like for me it's that like I when I'm standing I'm moving constantly I'm like a hot wire of movement that I I had to like learn to like stay still bring that back yeah

I stay at the back of the stage like I'm like if I go forward someone will shoot me yeah so I have to like when I go out now I go to the front of the stage and I plan to myself and I do not move from that

quadrant exactly but you would never know that if you had either told you or you'd seen it for yourself because you don't know you're like this is perfectly reasonable nice and safe back here that's for sure touching this back wall

shouting at them because they can't hear me yeah so yeah watch yourself and become aware of your own, your own great failure. It is gross watching yourself, but it is worth it. Just do once. And also, don't be disheartened if what you see, you're like, well, this is a mess, because you can change all the things that you see.

Because, exactly, it is just stuff that you can see. Like, look, when you watch that video, you'll become so immediately aware that you aren't listening to the content of your presentation or what you're saying. It's that 70% how you look and 20% how you sound. So what you're being picking up on is like, oh my God, my hands are so weird. I left such weird paws.

I said, ugh, in a weird way. you're not thinking, that bit about the quadrant, really. The wolves was good. That's about the wolves was good. You are listening at all. You're with such visual people. Yeah.

We're just taking it in. So, you know, and therefore those are things that can be fixed immediately. There's instantaneous fixes. So they're not, you know. Also, with a work presentation very quickly, they're taking notes or they're thinking about it in, they're actually not even thinking about you.

With like, wedding speeches and stuff, I think it is all about facade and not about content. But with work stuff, sometimes it is about. content and that can help you a little bit because it's like oh no one's really because everyone's making notes so no one's actually really or everyone's on their tapping on their iPads like so if you like yeah if you kind of let go of the fact they're like oh my voice is silly and I look stupid and whatever and you control everything that you can control you don't

look any more stupid than you do walking around the office you know like you're the same person you're just talking to them the focus should be like I hope that bit of information about the crust of the bread gets in. That should be the cause of the hoes presentation. It's of course the hoses presentation. Like that would be like, rather than me like, I hope I don't wet myself. I hope that fact gets across. Like make the thing, the subject of your presentation, the focus.

Yes. I hope this works. I hope people understand it. How can I help them rather than like me, me, me, me, me. Take it away from you. It's on them. Oh my God. That's all on them.

So I hope that helps. Thank you again for Peggy. I feel empowered. I'm going to go and do some public speaking here. I hope it helps Peggy. I'm not. I'm not. I'm going to read a book all night at one.

the I'm going to if you have any other podcast suggestions tweet us and nobody panic pod or just if you want to say hi to me tweet me at CVM the SS5 send on Instagram At 10cates it's all letters not normal

Or at weeprely love Instagram Yeah my own She posts once a year It's great And in reference to the name I once tried to start a gluten-free blog Called Weeprailove

Rejected titles Vladimir gluten Oh that's good Gluten things I hate about you. That's less... Blue 10 things I hate about you. Oh, okay, sorry, right, yeah, yeah. I knew you hadn't got it.

I hadn't got it. My presentation hadn't landed there. There we go. And I knew. Yeah, you could see it in my eye. Gluten Morgan, weak. It's in the same. Yes, that's sorry.

Yes, it's weak. Very good, very good. Yes, thank you much. The Gmail is... Oh, yes. Nobody panic podcast at gmail.com. Correct. And like, subscribe.

If you know someone who's terrified about public speaking, share the episode. and have a lovely week. Best of that.