Nobody Panic - How to Stop Procrastinating

Episode Date: May 12, 2018

Stevie and Tessa discuss the difference between a procrastinator and procrastinating, perfectionism and how to get things done in the very first episode of Nobody Panic! Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Episode one goes like in three, two. I'll chill.

Hi everybody. Hey guys. Welcome to, um, like, welcome to our totally new episode. A new podcast. Podcast. Um, it's called Nobody Panic, um, which is some advice that we should take ourselves right now. We're freaking out. We're really excited because basically we've not been around for a few weeks because, um, we used to do this other thing called.

We are the podcast formerly known as the debrief podcast. Don't say that. And as many of you will know, the debrief is very tragically, no more. No. And we are collateral damage over on the side. Like a phoenix rising from the ashes. Here we come. Flom.

Flom. My tears heal. That's a Harry Potter reference and also just a Phoenix reference because they do heal. For mythology fans. Just really great to start the podcast with some mythology. This podcast is about how to stop procrastinating. Let's start with some thank yous. We're here.

Tom's here. Tom's here. We'd like to thank producer Tom for sticking with us. Well, thank you for having me again. You're so welcome. Please follow us on Twitter at Nobody PanicPod. That's our new Twitter handle. And we have a new email which we can access easily. If you email us, I will get a notification on my phone.

It's Nobody Panicpodcast at gmail.com. So please, if you have any thoughts on like future episodes that you want us to do, that you're all panicking about and you want us to stop you panicking about, then email us. I will literally read it. My thank yous are to all the people who message does. Thank you from, not Stevie, but thank you from me to everybody who message saying, what about the podcast?

And we were like, we don't know, but we're going to do our best. I guess if nobody has said anything, we'd be like, oh, well then. Okay. Okay. Bye. We won't do it anymore. But no, we're here. Thank you to everybody who messaged us with name suggestions.

Yes. A lot of people suggest. the re-brief. But Rebecca Coxon commented on Tess's Instagram that said Nobody Panic saying, Nobody Panic is actually not a bad name. You heard that and we were like, oh. Of course it is. Of course it's not. A lot of things that are sort of like, how do adult or how to be a grown-up life?

Things sound a bit like pornography. Yeah, a bit much. Whereas no porn is going to be called Nobody Panic. No, can you imagine? What is happening there? I'd watch. I'd watch out of interest. So, to kick things off, what is the most adult thing you've done this week, Tessa. I guess it's got to be starting a podcast.

Oh, that's lame, isn't it? Oh. Come on. Well, mine actually... And also, we've, not to like, toot our own trumpet, but we've had to sort of do everything ourselves. And not with much help from other people. And not with any help.

I don't know if you could read between the lines of land, but if you do, then feel free. Feel free to read between those lands, guys. But we have, no, we've not had a lot of help, and we've had to sort of learn a lot of a lot of. lot of things about jargon. We've had to learn a lot of jargon in a very short space of time and learn how to, you know, be a podcast managers. Yeah. It's been very exciting. But my real adult thing, I got to do a Soho show a couple of weeks ago. You know, in London, it's a London

theatre called the Soho Theatre. It's a great theatre. Yeah. And it's really cool. It's so exciting to be there and really cool people have done it. And a load of podcast people came and it was, I loved having you all. So thank you so much. And I've just seen my Instagram. messages. I didn't know they were there. I'm so sorry if you messaged me. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. My adult thing is I've started carrying plasters in my bag because sometimes I've got a new shoe, two shoes and they brought. I bought two shoes, one for each foot. I've got a new shoe. Every time, I don't know, every time I get new shoes, I will wear them and then halfway through the day, I can't wear them anymore. The amount of shoes I've bought, like,

why don't I know this is a thing? And then this time I was like, I'm going to get a pack of plasters, put them in my bag, so then when I get new shoes, that will happen. And I did, and it worked. And then also, Tessa just started bleeding

from the leg because she scratched herself. And I was like, here's a plaster. And she's like, thank you very much. And it was all very chilled out. It was so chilled. But Stevie just said, I've got plaster so casually. And then I thought it was that thing

when someone's like, oh, I think I've got one. And then every item in their bag comes out. And it then turns out they don't have one. But you just reached into a side. Yeah, she reached into a compartment, guys, and it came out seamlessly in the same breath. Because I've got a male bag.

Yeah, it was unbelievable scenes. So, guys, we could not be more qualified to guide you through. Tessa's bleeding and I've got one shoe on. Let's go, guys. So, do you procrastinate, Tessa? I mean, I know the answer. Oh, no. Oh, there we go.

Never. What a surprise? Yeah, I'm a terrible procrastinator. Are you? Yes. Are you? Well, I did some, like, hardcore research. And found out there's a difference between,

people who procrastinate and a procrastinator. Oh my God. So I think I'm a person. Lay it on me. I'll lay it on your thick, girl. I am someone who procrastinates, but I'm not a procrastinator because I don't procrastinate with everything.

The way that you can tell. So if you are a procrastinator, professor of psychology at DePaul University, Joseph Ferrari, you didn't expect that last name because I could not, Joseph, has said that it is nothing to do with time management. If you tell a chronic procrastinator to, you know, well, just do it.

It's like telling a clinically depressed person. to cheer up, they can't because it's actually so deep within and tied to lots of other, as with everything, lots of other emotional and psychological things, such as not wanting to fail, such as if you are someone who's not comfortable with your own emotions and showing emotion and feeling emotion, then you can often be a real procrastinator because you don't want to have that bad feeling, but you don't know how to deal with it. It's someone who prefers to appear like they lack effort than ability. Oh God.

I immediately was like, I thought everyone I knew procrastinated. Yeah. That's why I think you're probably somebody who procrastinates. You're not probably a procrastinator. Maybe you are. But I know some people who are procrastinators. And it's those people that I've been like, what are they doing?

Like they've wanted to do something for ages. Like they wanted to be something for ages. And then when we left uni, they kind of went out into the world with everyone else. And they're still at that same stage. Yes. And I lived with one in my final year of uni. and he just like didn't do anything.

He'd talk so much about stuff. And he'd talk about it so eloquently. And when it came to actually putting something on or doing something, he'd always be like, oh, well, I've only had three days to do it. So yeah, it's not quite what I wanted to do. And every time you'd be like, just you know that you've done this. Like it actually feels a bit pathological because it's like it never stops. And if you were someone who procrastinates, then you may be someone who will go,

oh God, I missed that deadline or like, I didn't do it as well as I should have done. Right, next time I'm going to try. really hard to not do that and maybe try and put some things in place you might not follow them but at least you kind of really try a real chronic procrastinator won't do that they'll just keep doing it I don't think I am a procrastinator then oh I'm so glad because if you just said yes and I'll be like I've really laid you bear here I don't know I do really know those people but I think I genuinely I'm quite good at you know doing some of the things I say I'm going to do just quite slowly yes but also you've put so you um when you did your first Edinburgh show,

I remember you booked the slot and you said you were going to do it before you'd written a show. And that's one of the things that is like if you're a procrastinator, one of the big problems is we don't have a deadline. Like, when are you going to do anything? But you gave yourself a deadline because you knew

that you wouldn't do it if you didn't have a deadline. Well, I was super inspired by things like, you know, the whole thing about like, do your 10,000 hours or like, it's not your best thing, it's just your first thing. Oh, that's great. And I really like the quote from whoever it was who is in charge of Saturday Night Live for 20 years.

Lorne Michaels. Is it? Yeah, yeah. It's actually. Yeah, that's the exact producer. Oh, wow. Yes. That was so quick.

Also, I'd like to give you props for earlier. You said maladaptive, just really casually. Oh, did I? Yeah, and it looked really cool. God, I've got chills from myself. He or she said. I actually feel like this quote was from a woman, but we'll assume it was Lord Michaels, said the show doesn't go out because it's perfect.

It goes out because it's 10 o'clock on a Saturday night, which I thought was a really like freeing thing to be like. Yes. Here we go. And you have to, yeah. It's just getting made. Yeah. I think perfectionism is a reason that people procrastinate as well.

Sometimes it stops me. If I'm really frightened, like if there's like a big feature or it's like a new magazine, like when I started writing for L, the first feature I wrote for L, I think was a pile of shit. I was so terrified and I didn't want to start it. And I was so like, but I can't write like proper features. I can't write like an actual magazine. So I ended up leaving it to the last minute. I think a huge thing that has taken a lot of people that I went to school there,

a long time to get over is the school mentality of like better no essay than a bad essay. So that used to be a real thing at school. Obviously people didn't actually say that particularly but that was the... Constantly. We were chanting it down down the corridors. But there was a bit of...

I went to a very academic, very high achieving school and you got the sense that like you'd never handed in like... Better to like not... Better than take the zero. Okay. And to not have done it. Not for like your actual GCSEs, whatever.

But like, Bedderton like not just... do it then to hand in something that was like substandard. That's like a really perfection. And that's where you, that's how you breed like perfectionists and very like ill. Ill people. Ill people because you have this mentality of like I am because everyone is capable of doing this great of great stuff. And so if you are like, well, this isn't my greatest.

So I just won't handle it. You know? Yeah. And it makes you, but then you become an adult and you're like, this is insanity. Stupid. I think like my early 20s, which is not like quite the same, but it is sort of similar. If I was really late for something, I would cancel or not turn. up. I'd be like, so sorry I can't make it because I'd be like, I'm too embarrassed to walk in the

door half an hour late. And then actually, I think it was you. I think you did shout to me because I think I did it with a meeting that we had years and years and years ago. And you're like, you literally can't do that. And I remember being like, well, it was because I was just so embarrassed. And I was like, no, it's true. Get there. Don't go, I can't cope with this. And then go home. Like, it's better to show up. And that, in like, a metaphorical way, like, it's better to show up in anything. Like, your work. It's better to just do something than do nothing. because something can turn into something great. Also, I think it builds like real resentment

when you don't do the thing that you want to do because you're frightened. Yes. It's very similar to a podcast episode that we did a while ago on how to do things that you're frightened of. The feeling of not of complete inaction on whatever you're procrastinating on will be so much worse than the feeling of doing it.

And I think a huge thing on that, like, the fear thing is that when people talk about, like, facing the fear or about, like, bravery or about going and doing their thing, it's not about going and doing it that's not the brave part the brave part is making peace with the outcome oh god yeah it's fine wasn't it it was powerful because i think we all have this thing in our head of like you know the whole like when i'm rich when i'm famous when i own a boat when i one day i'll write my great novel whatever but to actually and it's so much easier to dream about

and it's so the reality is so much so so hard and not only is it hard to actually go through that think it's so hard to accept that actually you're not as talented as you thought you were yeah it's of course you could go through your whole life dreaming of the things you could have done we have we have lots of friends mutual friends who um make stuff and like performers or creators or whatever and i had this real thing of like this i'm doing my first ever show in in edinburgh and also thank you so much to everyone that came on may 3rd to two north town because it was basically all podcast people and you were all lovely and i'm so sorry it was such a mess but i had such a lovely time with you all. But I'm

terrified of it because I'm terrified actually. Not of doing it to people like you guys listening and strangers and whatever. I'm terrified about doing it in front of people I know because it's like I'm now going like, I spent months doing this and this is the best it can be. And if it's a bit lame, it's like, God Lord.

When you walk out there, be like, it's better than yours though, because yours doesn't exist. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Or even it's better than doing nothing. It's better than me still sitting here and then going to a bedroom room being like, I'll never be able to do that. Actually, just do it. And obviously,

people listening, you know, maybe you're not doing an Edinburgh show, particularly, there might be something in your life that you're, like, putting off and putting off and not doing. And it's like, it's that thing of, like, really focusing on what you gain from it, which is that you'll, you will have done something. And I think that's just so

much better than not, because you're frightened. So easy to say, isn't it? It's so easy to say, and so hard to do out. I'll keep saying it. Yeah, we'll just keep repeating it to you guys. So there's a difference between a procrastinator and someone who procrastinates. I'm thrilled. But I suspect they are on a micro or macro level.

I love that. Like when people just say those things, sorry. That like, if you procrastinate just in your day-to-day life and then procrastinators do it with their entire life. Yeah, with like every little thing. With everything rather than just in a small way. But I suspect that the excuses and the reasons are exactly the same. So some of these are from put off procrastinating.

Very good little pun that, not a pun, but a good put off. Put off procrastinating. Yeah, good stuff. Which I believe was issued by the Australia. Do you think Gov.A.U. Australian government? I think absolutely. Absolutely, yes.

Or Austrian government. So this was from the Austrian or the Australian government, but I suspect Australian. And it was sent to us by a lady called Abby Neve, who said, I think you guys should do one about procrastination. and then sent us this amazing piece from the Australian government, which has been really helpful. Because often if you look up things about procrastinating, it's all just do it.

Have you got a list? I can't. Yeah, that is actually like, I'm depressed and so when we're like, smile more. You're like, no. So it's, you know, as we constantly find it in these things, it's about breaking down, like, much, much more. And rather than just being like,

here are some top tips to be more efficient. It's like you've got to work out why you do the things in the first place. You've got to face those demons. You've got to like make a list. And here were the, they had six main things. You hold, Tesla put up four fingers and said the word six. Six, six things that were the main causes or the main excuses.

Okay. Some of these resonate with me and some of them I don't think so at all. So one, number one is needing to be in charge. And the thought process is like, I don't want things down my way. I shouldn't have to do things I don't want to or because someone else says so, which. Oh, I know someone like that. Yeah.

And it's a fascinating trait to me because it's just nothing like what I'm like at all. And actually, that sounds very arrogant, but this person's really, really nice. But they've got this really funny streak in them that's just like, well, if you tell me to do it, then, then I won't. And there was a study that I read about,

about six years ago, where they got procrastinators in a room and non-procrastinators, and they told some of them that they were doing this, like, test. And they told some of them they were doing some, like, meaningless fun. And they had a break in the middle where they could either play on

computer games or whatever or prepare for the test and when it was meaningless all the procrastinators prepared for the test and when it was an actual test none of the procrastinators prepared for the test so it's whether it was because

some of them might have been like well you've told me to do it so no which is like my friend but then some of them will literally just have panicked because it's like oh I don't want to I'll just try it when it happens like I'm sure it'll be fine I wonder if it's like the late thing

you know like you said that you're very optimistic I'm just procrastinating. I'm sure I'll be able to do it in like an hour. You're like, no. But also the psychology of that of like when you think it's, when you've been, so when they were told it was meaningless, they prepared.

Yeah, when they were told it was meaningless, they then were like, oh yeah, like I'll, I'll give that a go. I'll give that a go. Yeah, that'll be fun. I'll see how well I can do it, this meaningless thing. Yes. Fascinating.

And when they did it was a test. There's like, my ability has been. And you're like, well, I just won't because then I'll be able to say, well, I didn't prepare. So who cares? Exactly. It's not anything. I think it's that same for you ever meet volunteers

any sort of massive big event or something or some charity thing where everyone's a volunteer and everyone's just so jolly even though everyone's been there for 12 hours doing something, doing something rubbish. People are so happy and you can immediately tell they're a volunteer whereas if you are like calculating your time and you believe you're on someone else's clock,

you're like, I don't care, I'm not picking that a thing out. We're such a stupid people. You've chosen to be there when you're a volunteer. You haven't chosen to be there when it's a job. But it's a real catchment. like you can't trick yourself out of that. No. Number two, pleasure seekers.

Life's too short to be doing things that are boring or hard. Fun should always come first. That's me. That's me. Like if I can, if I can be outside, I will be outside. I don't, yeah, I'm a bit of a terror. Like self-care. Like, well, you know, it's a nice day.

It's a nice day. So they're not going to be many nice days. Exactly. So it's time to not, I shouldn't sit inside. Yes. I have elements of that as well. Yeah. Fear of failure.

That's my one, I think. I must do things perfectly, otherwise I will fail or others will think badly of me. Oh, maybe not. But either way, that is a big one. Okay, I must be certain of what will happen. What if it's bad? I'm better off not doing anything than risking it.

Oh, that's interesting. That's a real fear one, isn't it? That's a real, like, yeah, like, basically, like, I'm frightened that I might not be good at it, or I'm frightened that I won't like it, or I'm frightened that if it's that, then that's, like, a doing things that scare you sort of issue. I can't do it.

I'm just too incapable and inadequate. Oh, that's a sad one. That's low self-confidence. That's low self-confidence. You can't do it. Yeah, you can. And then right at the end is depleted energy. I can't do things when I'm stressed,

and motivated or depressed. It's an ill person. An ill person, but also, but I do really resonate with that one. Of like, oh, it's better for me to sleep now and to do it when I'm well. I see, yes. Also, you are quite a sickly person. I'm extremely.

That's why I resonate. It does resonate with me. With the thing about, like, I can't do it. I'm rubbish and I won't be able to. I remember there was a thing that we were saying, just in our own social lives, not on the podcast, about winning. If you do something and it's rubbish,

you're still winning because that's better than the person who is like you would have been, who is procrastinating and not doing it. It's like if you wanted to film a YouTube video and you filmed it and it wasn't great and it didn't get loads of views, you're not a failure because you filmed it. So you've won, you've done a thing.

It's all about doing the thing rather than doing it well because the next time you'll do it better, thinking that you're too shit to do something I think is one of the saddest reasons to not do it. Yes, and we breed that in children like all the time. Hard. Claire, who now teaches in Hong Kong,

nice. Hi Claire. Teachers children and when they say I can't do that, she says, yet. You can't do that yet. Oh my God, she's one of those teachers, isn't she? That you like remember the rest of your life. Because that's such a huge thing because so many things that I know about myself are things that people told me I couldn't do

and said I was bad at and you just put them in your brain be like, okay, that's the thing I'm terrible at. Yeah. I can't do that. Again, sorry about all the self. It's all, it comes down to your self-confidence. I know, but everything does.

And not just, we're talking on a very, like, large scale at the moment, but for example, my room at the moment is such an astonishing mess and has been for weeks, like weeks. And I have been really like,

I've literally got through all these, so the excuses things are things like, I'm too tired, like, I don't want to, I don't want to. I don't want to. I can't, I don't have the time. I've got other things to do.

I'm too busy. I'm too weak. I am too weak. And also, it won't be good even when I finish. You mean, it just get messy again. It does get messy again

because I'm a bad person. Like, that is all wrapped up in my bedroom at the moment and that's where I'm sleeping. Like, how can I, how can I rest easy? Give yourself a challenge. I just can't.

And so not only is it like, I'm too bored, oh, I want to watch the deli instead of doing this. It's like, it's also wrapped up in this, like, but the clothes haven't got anywhere to go because I'm a messy bad person.

Like, I can't, I can't do it. And is it also like, because you did that Marie Condo thing. Yeah. It's like, well, I couldn't keep that up. I couldn't even do the thing. And that's why I hate those things because I feel like it's good. They're great for a bit.

And then when you don't do them, they're literally just like bullet journaling. They're setting yourself up to not do it and then be like, I can't do it. And Hannah did it. Yeah. But she could do it. But I can't do it. We're like supposed to have like a rock and our baby and then we go and get food. That's it.

That's all you're allowed. No, we've got way too much stuff. So instead of, yeah, exactly. Instead of having the. you know, all the Maricondo skills and the top tips, you've got to go right back to basics and be like, okay, where have you got this negative idea that you're too bad to do things?

To tidy your room. And in a positive way, if you are a procrastinator and you're listening, you're like, oh my God, it's like there are things you can do. Like, it's not like you are condemned to life now. Like, this is the end. And also, to be perfectly honest, I'd prefer to go for a drink with a procrastinator

than I would with Maricondon. because I'm sure she's not that much of a laugh. I think she isn't quite mad. I imagine she is quite mad. She says goodbye to her sweaters whenever she goes to bed. I don't think that's the mark of someone who I want to have a pint with. Yeah. So let's alternate our tips.

A really good idea is to really think about something that you're not doing at the moment that you really know that you should and look at exactly why you're not doing it. And even if that helps to write it down, you can't tackle anything unless you know why you're doing it. are you afraid? Are you frightened that it's going to be bad? Do you genuinely think you can't do it? Do you believe that you deserve a nice day in the sun? That is another reason. My answer, if you said, why can't you charge your room? My answer would be like, I'm a lazy girl.

Okay. I'm very lazy. That's heartbreaking to look at. I'm here and see. I'm saying, because I'm lazy, but that's not why. It's because I lack confidence. Yes. You're big mean to yourself. I'm being mean to myself. I'm not supporting myself. And you need to stop doing that and realize that having a tidy room has got very little to do with how lazy you are and very much to do with a million other things, i.e. what your room looks like, how easy it is to tidy your room, what you've been doing with your day, other things you've had on your mind. And also, just to give yourself a break, to be like, that is what everyone does.

Like, you've not tidied your room. That's absolutely fine. You haven't been horrible to someone, you haven't killed somebody. No? Yeah, thank you very much. Yes. And also, you're not lazy because you've just done a Soho run and you're doing an Edinburgh show. So that's not lazy. even if you're like well i haven't done much on that either i don't know if you have or not but like you're going to do it so like that's not lazy you've put things in your life that mean that you have to do it so if you're listening at home being like well i haven't tired of my room because i'm a lazy girls we've got a lot on now 2018 you know thank you i feel so much better

Good. Thank you. And yes, the idea of starting it at the source, writing it down, and just knowing why. Because then you can challenge it as if you were your own friend being like, no, because obviously I can say that to Tessa, but I can't deal with my own procrastinating at all until someone goes, come on, let's alternate. So it's your tip next. My tip is, and this comes from, we've talked about it before, but it comes from David Allen's bestselling book, getting things done. Oh, Dave. Dave, it is the two minute rule thing that if it takes less than two minutes,

do it right now. And I have actually genuinely changed my life. I've been doing it a lot with doing the dishes that I just like, right, right. I put them down, that I immediately put them up again. Just do them, just do them, do them. But water on them. While it's still in your hands, just do the dishes.

And putting things in the washing, when you see my laundry and I like go, oh, the laundry. And then I just like try and trick myself and like pick up, and pick it up. Just put it. And then once it's in your hands, you're not going to go backwards.

You're going to put it back down again. No, exactly. Come on, here we go. Just keep on going. The laundry is a really hard thing because there's not really any satisfaction from it. No, never. Because you know it's just going to go back in.

The laundry's the goddamn worst. I absolutely cannot stand laundry and I don't know who knows it. So it's the two minutes. If you can do it, do it right now. And also the put to do two minutes worth of a thing. Oh, that's good. So if you're worried about starting something, just do it for two minutes.

Just do it for two minutes. Just do it. That feels very short, doesn't it? Yes, it does. But that's enough. Just do two minutes. Okay. Because two minutes is just like, you know,

here's this rubbish thing I've written, but it's better than your thing that doesn't exist. So two minutes is better than zero minutes. Yeah, say you'll do a bit and then who knows, you might want to do it or not. But yeah, the general idea is that you, once you've begun it, it's then more boring to stop than it is just to carry on. Typing, like, oh, well, I can't stop now.

That'll be terrible. So it's like, but even if you just do two minutes, you've done two minutes. Yes. And the same thing with like, if you're trying to tidy your room and perhaps there are 12 IKEA bags in your bedroom. Perhaps. Perhaps.

And it's like, oh, I can't do all 12. Go to all 12 then. I genuinely do think that in your room you do it like that. Like when you're like, oh, I can't have to help. I do. I do. I lie down in my silk robe and I'm like, God.

And I literally just, the other day somebody just said to me like, but what do you want from your career? And I was, and literally the Met Gala just happened. I want, and I went, for someone to take me in a car to the Met Gala? Yeah.

I just want someone to come and help me. I don't want. That's the worst question. I just want to help. Yeah. That's all I want. Help. somebody to wake me up.

Mine, the other one is very simple, really, and it's one of those boring ones, but it does work. Just set a deadline for yourself. If it's something that you're procrastinating over that's like genuinely doesn't have a deadline because it's like, well, I don't have to do it. Get, like, make it so it does have a deadline. So say if you're, my problem is

I can never think of examples from the real world because all my examples are created. Make a report, build a shed. Say you've got to do a report. Say you're a teacher and you've got like marking to do or whatever. And you always procrastinate until like the last night, a friend of mine who is a teacher who does this, she organises something she can't

get out of the night before she has to do it and then we'll like tell the children on Wednesday, like, here are your books on Wednesday you're going to get all your books back so the kids know as well. So she's accountable to a room full of children. And I suppose if you're in an office, you can tell your boss I'm going to get this to you on like Tuesday

morning or whatever, even if they haven't asked for it for that because then... They're like, all right, Janet. All right, calm down. But then you are accountable to someone and you've... But that doesn't really matter You've given yourself a deadline that means something. I think giving meaningful deadlines,

while it can feel like if you're a real chronic procrastinator, you're just setting yourself up for failure. It's like, great, another thing I'm going to miss, that is giving you more impetus than you would have had otherwise. Yeah, absolutely. There is a, if you want to take it really seriously, there is a website called Stick with 2Ks. Okay.

Stick. Stick. Stick. Do you want to guess what it does? Gives you deadlines on your phone. Yes. And shouts at you. It is initially started as a healthy thing, as an exercise.

Losing weight, quitting smoking, training for a race, etc, etc. I find that seems very stressful. Very stressful, sure, but wait for it. But it became more of a cut. It branched out into doing all kinds of things. So you go on. It's an American thing, obviously. You set your goal.

You file the report, do the marking. Say when you have to do it by. Then you give it money. Wow, okay. Like 20 pounds. Yeah. If you fail to hit your deadline, it donates your money to charity. Oh my, this is incredible.

Right? Do that. Yeah. Absolutely do that. How cool is that? But then how annoying is something genuinely like awful happens, like you're having a really bad time and then also now you've lost lots of money. Yes.

But like, hopefully it, you know. So great because that is a meaningful thing that will affect you. You basically need something to affect you if you don't do it. And that will help like low level procrastination. You probably won't help chronic procrastinators because the chronic procrastinators basically have to do the thing where they go soul searching and they look at why.

And then that's... This is cherry. This is like surface level additional help. You got to, but you can't... What am I trying to say here? What was the cherry aspect? Like the cherry on the cake. Oh, okay.

This is dessert, but you can't come here. You can't have dessert yet until you've worked on your starter. Of course, and your main. I'd say. And your main. your main your starter is

you know your starter is why am I putting this off why am I a person who does this why where have I got these problems from your main is then working on that which is really difficult and that might also that might genuinely need like therapy and it might need

and also like and when I say therapy I think everyone goes like but I can't what like go online there's like a six week online therapy courses do that you know like there are ways that you can do it without paying a woman 100 pounds a week generally therapy is somebody standing

with you while you do a sort of deep sea diving excavation to like into yourself, into yourself and bring up memories and be like, is it this? And then like, yeah, that's a brick from the bottom of the pool. I was to say it like a dog going into the forest and just bringing out other toys that aren't the toy. It's the psychiatrist's thrown. Yeah, and sometimes like a human leg comes back and you're like, put it back. We'll deal with that. We're not ready to do with that. We will deal with it. Don't dig up that shallow grave, please.

Anyway, so go find stick with two Ks. It has since it began raised $35 million for charity. An amazing thing that it does is it gives it to a charity that you hate. Oh, that's so funny. What? Like, so if you hate dogs, it'll give it to like a dog charity, that's incredible. I mean, obviously that's the only thing you should do. So all other tips now, pale in comparison. But I read a tip that just said, chunk it.

Oh, Christ, I mean, what, like throw up or something? No, it doesn't. It means, obviously, break it down to chunks. If I was filing a report, would or not, it would be like, cleaning all the bags of sand out of the garden. Clean them about... There's always people with bags of sand in the garden. I've never experienced this.

But I am going to lean into it. And you're making a patio. You always got bags of sand. I mean Travis Perkins? Yeah, yeah. I don't have bags of sand in my garden. And then you leave them there. They get wet.

They form concrete on their own. You can't lift them. And then they're all winter procrastinating. Yeah. Okay. So say you've got bags of sand in your garden or you're filing a report. If I had those two things to deal with, I'd be like, right, this weekend, deal with the sand, do the report.

So I do a things to do list. And the things to do list would say, one, clean the sand. And two, do my report. Unhelpful. Because unfortunately, all you've done now is you just written down the thing that you don't want to do. So you have to on your things to do list

write down first page of report. Like Saturday, first page of report. Sunday, second page of report. I'm saying it's a two page report, guys. If it's not, I would say split off a better way. But even more just being like, Saturday, first page report, be like, dash, contents page.

Contents page. Put the pictures in. Put the pictures in. Put the appendices. Appendices. Do the reichart. Look up a. that other research.

Draw the graph. The academics. Colour the pie chart. Footnotes. Write the list. Two people who write reports constantly. Regularly, baby.

We're making bank in the city. Let me tell you. Final report is left, right and center. This is a nice quote that there is a difference between having a plan and planning. Because I think there's that thing about

life is what happens when you have a plan or... Oh, life's what happens when you're making other plans. John Lemon. Thank you. Is it John Lennon? It is, yeah.

Thank you so much. You're on fire today. I don't know what's happened. You're doing really well. Exactly that. If you're like, on Saturday, that will be my day for moving all the bags of sand. Like, 100%. I love what life this is.

100%. Something will happen that gets in the way. Yeah. More sand maybe. Someone will pop up. You'll have that horrible thing of someone being like, you know, reminding you're supposed to be somewhere. Your mom turns up.

Your mom turns up. You know, we're ready to go to the market. Jonathan's got to go to A&E, etc., etc. again. Always. Bloody out. Get your foot out of there. So if you really do plan too much, there will be a disaster, but that is the difference

between that and planning. So like 10 till 11 bags of sand hour. Yes. I think that's like, will that take me an hour? And actually be really realistic and understand yourself a bit better and understand how long things take. Yes, because then you'll get to satellite and you'll end up doing the bags of sand at 10pm before you're going to bed.

And you'll put it off again within the day. if you are planning, I guess doing the things that you don't want to do first, I think is helpful. Yes, that is a lot of people's and that comes up in Dave Allen's book and everybody comes out with that. You and Dave, you hang out a lot. You and Dave. You used to be lovers. Do the worst. I'm sorry, Dave. I'm sorry. I told people that. Do the worst thing first. Yeah. So do that's, get it out of the way. But there's also the other thing about do the quickest thing first and you feel good about yourself.

But I actually, I've read this thing saying like there's all, you know, all those, It's worse than quick. Yes, all of those articles being like, why procrastinating is actually good for you? And like, it's not a good thing because it's not a beneficial thing and it's not a thing that's going to make you happy. So that's why I think when we were like planning to do this podcast,

I was like, it's going to be things like, put a timer, do it for 20 minutes, then look out the window, all of that stuff. But actually, that's not helpful because those things don't help if you are a procrastinating person. It's quite a serious thing.

You've got to like tackle it so head on, like we're saying. I don't know why I said that, but I started. You're agreeing with yourself. Was I agreeing with my own point? Yeah. Just go back and make sure you've got your starter sorted. Yes.

So that feels, sorry, yes. Because then that feels like a good thing. But actually it's not because then a procrastinator will just do the easy things and then not do the main thing that they keep procrastinating. Because these things are like, do things worse or do it quick. It's like those are things you need to work out yourself that you can't, you know, and it's like, do this for 20 minutes, then look out the window. If that helps somebody else, wonderful.

But you'll work out if that is good for you when you've got there and start practicing. You can't just go straight to those taking on board those top tips from the end of the program. You've got to come back in. You've got to come back in. And doing the easy things first, well, if they were, if they feel easy to you, then they're not the problematic things to do. So like, do you know what I mean? It's like using the kind of therapy analogy, going to therapy and talking about all the things that are really easy to talk about. And then whenever you have something like,

oh wow, this is hard. When that dog brings the human, the human leg back out of the forest. We're not going to talk about that. It's like, oh no, I think we definitely need to talk about. because that's a human leg that's just come out of the forest so we have to address that rather than like, another time, another time you're just putting it off. Exactly. So don't do the easy things first.

Do the hard thing first. I'm agreeing with your point. Yes, worst thing first. Great. Clinically proven. And then my final tip is reward good behavior like a dog which is if you do end up doing something that you've been procrastinating

for give yourself like more than a pat on the back like buy yourself an ice cake like do something really lovely for yourself because that's how our brains learn via dopamine. So, yeah. And have that in your head maybe when you're going into doing that task.

Like, once I've done this, I'll be able to binge watch, I don't know, whatever, for four hours. Go and take your reward. I said for four owls then. I heard hours. It's okay. Okay, that's great. You did well. Thank you.

Good. Good. Powerful. Very powerful. Well, let's stop procrastinating about ending this podcast. No, bloody out. Let's finish it. Well, last thing is,

if you do find yourself, if the internet is your demon about procrastination, turn it off. Turn it off, but very hard to do. Yeah, so hard. There are different things on there that you can literally

shut the computer down. Oh yeah, what are they called? There's like apps. There's one called macfredom.com. Great. Which will shut down the internet for you while you're working.

And if you want to get back, you literally have to, And it says, like, you have one hour of this. And if you then go on the internet, you'd literally have to reboot the computer in order to get it to work again. So it's not worth it. Yeah. Oh, no, no, because after an hour, it starts working again.

No, but it's not worth it. No, my God, it's definitely not, it's not worth it. No, it wasn't saying that out. That sounds crap. It's not worth it. No, it was great. I invented it. And the other one is something called rescuetime.com,

which is free. And it means that it tracks all your internet usage over the week. And it shows it to you in a graph. And it literally shows you everything. And it's quite an eye-opening, you know, oh gosh. Yeah, this is the amount of time I've been surfing the web. Because you might think to yourself like, oh, I don't go on it that often. But actually when it's there, you're like, oh, my God.

Especially on a day that you're working all day. And then you're like, oh, I wasn't working all day. I wasn't working a half a day. I felt very stressed and very busy all that day. Yeah. And I looked at dogs. Oh, those dogs were stressing me out, man. I feel like that, I think that was very, very helpful.

And it was so much more, like, in depth with emotions that I'm. I thought it was going to be. Yes. Because everything is, everything is more deep than we think it is. Yeah. This is my thing.

I think the main issue is that when we try and address any of these big problems, it is like, I wish I had a better analogy than this dessert starter thing. Yeah, me too. Because that is what all the internet is,

is like, a dessert and a dessert. So, all the internet is is dessert. Like, try getting up at a half past five. You know, have you tried drinking more water? There's like snacks, not meals. Yes, that's a much better thing. But like, they're like good additional stuff

once you've got a meal. but that you can't just live on the snacks. Yeah, you've got to nourish your brain properly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So go fix the problem before you start playing a plaster on it. And don't panic if you're a procrastinator because, like, you can do all of those things. You can, like, you just need to figure out why. Once you figure out why, then you know the next step.

And then the next step can be any of those things that we've mentioned. It's like to trust yourself. When I procrastinate with one thing, the next thing that comes in, I'm like, oh, but what if I do it again? And then you lose faith in yourself. And you need to get that faith back. That is the, like, crucial thing. You should always be confident with yourself, I think.

Mm. Mm. I believe in you. I believe in you too. You'll get that room tidy. Thank you. You will. I'm definitely going to do one bag.

Do one bag of sand. I think I've conflated two stories here. You have. You've got bags of sand in your room. I wouldn't put it past me to have bags of sand in my room. Do tweet us at Nobody Panic Podcast. It might just be Nobody Panic Pod. Yeah, it's so true.

I'm learning, guys. At Nobody Panic Pod. Or at TVM, the S is a 5. Not the title of the podcast, but it could, was such a frontrunner. Yeah, it was so close. I'm at Dessa Goats. And email us,

Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com if you have any thoughts. And yeah, have a lovely week, guys. And we would love you if you could subscribe, if you could review us. I know I'm so sorry because I know so many of you have done it. And maybe try and do it again. If you could do it again. We're so sorry.

We've got none now. You could just copy and paste over. If you want. If you fancy. But very exciting. No pressure. No pressure. And very excitingly, next week, if you listen,

we've got a guest, we've got Emma Gannon from the amazing Control Alt Delete podcast coming in to talk about how to make your side hustle, your main hustle, and lots of things about hustling. So listen and we will see you then. Bye. Have a new week. Bye.