Nobody Panic - How to Stop Self-Sabotaging

Episode Date: December 29, 2020

Did you know self-sabotage has an evolutionary benefit? That's why pretty much everyone has, at one point or another, consciously or subconsciously screwed something up because they were scared they'd fail if they tried properly. Stevie and Tessa go through their own self-sabotaging behaviour as well as techniques for accepting it, moving through it, and not beating themselves up over it. Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. And welcome to the very last episode of 2020. This is the podcast, Nobody Panic.

I'm Stevie Martin. I'm Tessa Coates. And here we are cresting through almost to the end of this year. Nothing's going to change, obviously, by midnight. But, you know, it's nice to think it will. Nice to imagine, isn't it? Set some goals. Yeah, sets some names.

Set some something, something. Anyway, this is the last one in the year. And then there's going to be a little bit. break in January and we'll be back in February. It's got a little Jan break. Jan's taking a break. Yeah. And so we can't do progress without her. Our HR department manager Jan is off for the month.

Go to the Bahamas. But we'll be back in Feb for some hot, I imagine Valentine's Day content because that's only thing happens in February. Probably. Or not. Send us some emails and give us some fun things you want to hear us talk about and help you out within Jan. Because today is also one of those.

one of those instances where we've got an email from somebody and we thought that is a good episode idea. I would also like to learn how to do that, please. This one, I think both of us were like, oh yeah. Oh, no. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That noise is the noise that we made.

Should I read the email out, Stevie? Yeah, sure. We're not going to say your actual name. No. Just in case you don't want it. We're going to call you. Joan. Joan.

My grandma's name is Joan. My middle name is Joanne. is Joanne and they said that was after my grandma and my grandma said, no. That's not my name, is it? That's not the same, is it? Is that the grandmother had the dead owl in the fridge?

That's the one. Anyway, Joan, thank you for your email, Joan. So, she says, dear Stevie and tells her. And then there's some praids which will skip over, but let's just say, we enjoy hearing the praise. Anyway, I would love if you did an episode on how to stop self-sabotaging. Oh, Joan.

and this is the point our ears pricked up. It's not the same as procrastination or starting a creative task, etc. I have no real issue with getting something started or planning how to get something done. My issue is when and only when something is important to me, I will completely sabotage myself. Achieve a fitness goal and proud with my weekly progress, I will immediately go and eat every chocolate cake and or fried item I can find. Want to get my short film made? Cue not getting back to numerous emails after writing and getting part ways through production. If a task isn't important to me, I tend to be able to do it. Triathlon my aunt signed me up to? Sure. Assistant Director for commercial? Why not? But when something has high stakes personally, you bet I will find a way to make myself fail. Help. Thank you and best of luck, Joan. Kiss, kiss. Very good. Really relatable. So relatable. And very also self-aware. A self-aware enough, not just to say, oh, I self-sabodized, but to acknowledge that it's when it's things that are important to her.

Yes. Do you, do you recognise yourself in this, Dessa? Oh, very much so. And I think, I think everybody will, and they don't have to be, maybe you're thinking, oh, I don't have a problem with the eating, you know, we might be like having a fitness goal and then eating something. I wouldn't even cross my mind. But then in some other ways, in your personal life, in your professional life, in all kinds of things, I think we're all completely guilty of self-sabotage. And we wouldn't call it that word necessarily. We just think, like, oh, this thing, I just, I don't know why I, do it, you know. I like, it's like I'm lying to myself. So I will be like, well, I just, I'm really,

it will always be like, oh, I seem to have gone out and gone really hard the day before I'm supposed to be doing something I'm really frightened about. It's like, oh, here I am again, hung over, trying to do something to the best of my ability. Why have I done that? And, uh, what, what a strange coincidence. What a strange coincidence. Yeah. And then you realize, oh, it's not a coincidence. Oh, it's not. For me, it's like the phone charger. Like I will I will leave the house knowing there isn't enough percent on the phone and why?

Why? You know? I know it's crazy. Shall we do adult things? Yeah, absolutely. I can say we're going to be we're jumping at the bit to get in. What's the most adult thing you've done this week, Tessa? Mine takes my breath away. It's so dull.

I have a very small little galley kitchen and I have been trying my, you know when you get really into like desperate trying to utilize space correctly. I have discovered that the under the sink area is both cavernous and badly organized, because as I imagine most people's art, it's just full of bags for life and cleaning products that you've never seen before and didn't buy. Oh, God, I've attached a little shelf onto the other door into which I have packed

test those bags, not the hard plastic bag for life, but like a more classic Tesco's bag. Have you seen on Instagram or whatever where somebody shows you how to make them into tiny little triangles? We get served very different Instagram. Do we? Do we really? Yes. I've never had anything like that. I get clothes and vegan cheese.

That's sort of it. I get insane interiors of animals that look like lamps. And this calming storage hack will blow your mind. Like that is it? Oh, it's, your algorithm is so cruel to you. you. I know, I know, I know. And it will not stop showing me people who fold there. And some of you are like, yeah, yeah, I get the triangle bags. Okay, so a cleaning lady is not somebody, a famous, I don't know who she is. I don't even follow these people. How do they find me? Has said, like,

if you take your big Tesco's bag, you can fold it into a little tiny, neat triangle like this big. And then you can like sort of store it neatly. I just, I have to describe it. It's a lot of time for essentially the difference is it's in a tiny, triangle. What a waste of space and life just so you can look at your pointy triangle bags. Anyway, the end of the story is that I installed a spice rack on the inside of the under the sink drawer and it's full of the triangles. Great. Yeah. If I could carry you to see it, I would, but I can't. So I'll send you a picture. Yeah. That's lovely. And, you know, if I felt nothing. I've honestly, I looked upon my creation and I felt numb.

I think I was like, there's nothing for me here. My one is actually, it's an organisational thing, but it's not as interesting. I've got a bathroom cupboard. I'm so sorry, everybody. And in it, it's just like an array of things. I've got like, I don't know, a bowl where it's just like, everything's in there. And then there's like some pots. Anyway, under my bed, I found, I bought, like, years ago.

There's like transparent, moji, like, little drawers. I don't care for them. That stack. I found them and was like, oh, I didn't even know I had that. Went through all of my stuff, threw away, all the stuff that was like, yeah, some hand cream from 2009. And then sorted everything out. So it's like, we'll see how long it lasts. But now I don't feel, I didn't realize how stressed I was whenever I looked, whenever I went into that cupboard, which was three times a day, until I wasn't stressed anymore.

And then I was like, oh, this, God, I've been holding on to this for a long time. So that was quite nice. We've done very similar under the cupboard things. Yes. Like mine as well. Mine's slightly too much time on my hands. But like yeah. But ultimately,

it helps. Going forward, if every day you look at it and you're stressed and now you think like, I know where things go. God. Being adult is boring, isn't it? Right. Come on.

Come on. Do you well, we first started this podcast. I think one of my adult things is like, I didn't get hammered on Friday. And now it's like I sorted out my bathroom. cupboard and I'm genuinely moved. Like, that's very difficult. Well, you remember the other day, well, I don't know, months ago when there was a girl crying on my wall when I walked home and then I had to put her in a taxi. And I was like, oh, I used to be her. And now I'm the weird woman who

who cares for you. I'd like a weird woman to put me in a taxi when I was 25. Yeah, I know. Right. Let's get on to it. Come on. Let's get in here. We're self-sabotaging. It's the same with so many things. But you can think that self-sabotage is. just a terrible part of your personality. Oh, what, I'm an idiot. Why am I doing this? But it's actually, as ever, got an evolutionary purpose. And that's why everybody will have it to some degree, even if it's very, very small, tiny one. And that we have to learn how to manage it rather than get rid of it. Because you'll never be able to get rid of that voice, but you can learn to listen to it and go, no, not today. May I, may we say, may I say my self-sabotage thing?

before we... Oh my God, of course. Look, me just barreling in like a self-sabotaging prick. No, no. I was just thinking then maybe because maybe people are thinking like, I'm not really sure what I self-sabotage.

Yes. But my personal ones would be letting things... The phone. The phone. Misorganization of time, knowing I have an important thing at some time and doing other stuff, not just like being serious about it

and being there for the call or the meeting or whatever. Crisps. Talk me through. Expand on that. Sometimes I know. The eating things for me is not so much a weight thing so much as it is like I'm largely intolerant to a large number of things.

And then I eat them, you know. Yes, yes, that is correct. Or like not having enough today. Like I don't have been like, oh, no, I haven't eaten enough today. I should eat a nutritious, healthy broth and instead eating a bag of kettle chips. and then being like, oh look, I feel even worse and being like, you're an idiot. And people say things to you like,

you must care for yourself as you would for a baby. And you wouldn't just feed a baby a bag of guzzle chips and nothing else. And yet, I don't, that's me, that and the food and the work, like allowing myself to like go right to the last minute, working through the night, like doing stuff I know, not helping my future self when I know I should and could. But being like, oh, what will future Stevie think?

it's really, really, like, really altered how I'm able to cope. So that might be quite helpful as well. I'm thinking, like, actually creating, maybe it's just a mad thing to do, but like, literally creating future you and being like, so many times I say to myself, aloud, future Stevie will be sad that you didn't do this. And I say it allowed around the flat constantly. And I really feel future Stevie. And then when I do do the thing, I am future Stevie.

and I will thank past Stevie. Right. It's not. It doesn't make me sound very stable, but it's the only thing that gets me through. It's the most stable thing in the world. It's literally the crux of everything is like understanding your short term

versus long term concept of like in the short term, yes, these crisps are delicious in the long term and the long term is 45 minutes later. You'll be quite sick. Yeah. And then it stops. The first thing on it is that like your present self stops enjoying the stuff.

so much because you know that the future self is watching you being like, fuck you, you know? Yeah, definitely. And, you know, even people, so I would say that I have like a inner, I'm like a control freak about myself. So like, and I've self-sabotaged myself by being so controlling that actually you need to have a balance. Like there needs to be a balance between, you know, well, I've been, I've just said earlier,

like don't pretend that you don't have this. Like, it's, you don't like, be like, I am absolutely fine. Like, everybody will have an element of like, oh, do that. And then you won't have to do this. And you just have to embrace it and, like, become friends with it. Because you will have your own personal little, little, little elf on your shoulder being like, don't take your phone charger. It's like, why?

Yeah, why? Yeah, you'll get out of it. Ah, good one. Yeah, it's good. It works. And that's the problem. It works. Do you know what I think it is for me?

I think my elf is saying. you can do it anyway. Like you can get, but you can get through the day on 13%. It's, I think it's like a sort of thrill ride thing. Oh, this is, yes, this is like when we were talking about

what type of late person and you were like, I enjoy the thrill of just running onto the train as the doors are closing. And I was like, I actually don't relate. That's one of the first things we tell where I don't relate to it at all. I can't. I think it's that of like,

that's interesting. And then so it's not just, for me, It's not, I don't want to do the phone call. I do want to do the phone call. It's like, you can do it. I'm like statistically. It's like Superman complex. I can't. We know I can't. It's the same thing as like when you see or when one sees, it takes 14 minutes to get somewhere. I'll do in five. It's like, well, no, you actually can't physically do that in five. But he's like, yeah. Yeah, that's true. With like the late thing as well, that is kind of an element. If you're having sort of been around you when you are going to somewhere, you will just be like, yeah, it's fine.

Whereas I'm not, I'll be like, yeah. And then inside I'm like, it's not, but okay. Because I can't help but see that it's the time that we're supposed to be there and we're still here. And it's the sort of thing that you only do learn over repeated performances to be like, oh, it's not. It's not. Let's get into the why do we do it?

Well, the why, the evolutionary reason is, and it's not just to like fuck ourselves over. It's your brain, self-preserving and safeguarding and defending yourself, even when it's not needed. So it's the same thing as when we were talking about jealousy. And when your brain kind of goes like, when someone does something, it's actually evolutionarily useful because it will push you to do the thing that you're jealous of. So I don't know, in the old days when it's like, oh, that guy, that person is always doing all the good hunting. Well, that will then push you to be a

better hunter if you are competitive, because we are all very competitive by nature. even if you're not, as a human being, you are competitive to some degree. So this is the same sort of thing. If you were about to do something that really would harm you or be frightening, then the idea of like getting out of it would be a positive thing. Because your brain's like, your brain can't see new ones. So it's just like she doesn't want to do this. So get her out of it.

Abort, abort! But the problem is that it then extends to things that actually are just, anything remotely out of the comfort zone, including a phone call, which you actually are fine doing. So this happened to me this week. I went out. I had a call at five. I didn't get home in time, and I didn't. And I was like, I'll do it on the bus and the phone around our battery. And I was only a few minutes late to the call. But I, and I managed to, I emailed ahead and, like, as the phone was dying and was like, can we push it back? But, and I do think if it had been like, oh, I've got a call with my grandma, or I've got an important thing that I wanted to do and I knew was important.

I think I wouldn't have behaved like that. I think I didn't want to do the call. It was about tax. I don't think I wanted to do the calls, Stevie. Yes. So actually, so your elf is going like, you'll be able to do it. But then your elf has a subconscious and your elf on your shoulder is going, also I don't want to do it.

Like it's so deep down. It's me, my elf is like, we can do it. And then deep, deep, deep down is like, because I don't think my elf would be like, he, we can do it if it was grandma. I'd be like, of course, it's so important. make sure phones charged up. Make sure

the, I've got a battery pack. Also it's a nice call. It's a low pressure environment. Yeah, you're so right. Is it as well? Is it linked to? And please,

forgive me if it's not. But is it linked to, so when I think of, I think of two things, when I think of like going to like, when I say fancy event, I mean, just like drinks or a Christmas party

like one of our mutual friends' houses or something, I think of you, first thing of you're looking excellent. But I also think if you're arriving with wet, hair. Is that the same sort of thing where it's like, oh, I'm stressed about the idea of like, because I have that, where I'm like, when I get stressed about the idea of like having to

go to something dressed like something or like to, well, there's a tiny bit of pressure to like, well, I have to do my hair and wear a thing, but then I will be late because I'll be like, I'll just sort of push it to the end to go because I'm like, well, I don't, I don't really want to do it. Or is that a separate thing? I think that is, and it's lots of things, it's both like time mismanagement, but I think underneath the time mismanagement is something that I think runs through a lot of self-sabotage, which is this massive thing that is both the fear of your own failure and fear of your own success of like, you'll look too good. I'll look too good. That's genuinely what holds me back when I'm late to weddings and I show up with wear hair.

I'm worried I'll look too good. I think it's to do with like you have an image in your mind of like how you'll look at this party. You'll put this dress on and suddenly you'll be lovely and you'll be a lovely guest or whatever. And then you do and you're like, oh, what? Got a sock in my hair and my hair's wear. Oh, God. And I think the sock and the hair thing is like, you're like, yeah, well, I couldn't be, I couldn't be my best.

And it's a way of preventing yourself from seeing you at your true best and realizing how much you'll find yourself lacking. Whereas if you're so deep. Whereas if you are, you're like, oh, well, my hair's, of course I'm not my best. But I'm here. Because I was running late, so I couldn't possibly. I couldn't possibly. be my best and it is just a constant way of never allowing yourself to be forced to look upon

your actual best and see what that is and how much you don't you know that you aren't impressed with it that works perfectly if you turn that into so if you're listening being like I'm fine with parties but there's a lot lots of people I know and also I've done it as well um where that works exactly with work so like I used to because I used to be a commissioning editor so I would commission freelance writers to write for publications. It was the debrief mainly, but then I would do it for magazines as well. And I found it absolutely astonishing. That's something that I don't do, but I do do things in other ways. But I find it astonishing how people would self-sabotage. They just wouldn't, they wouldn't submit. And it was like their first, like they were so excited

to write for this publication. But then they like, wouldn't hit the deadline, would send something that was not finished. And so then I would just not ever commissioned them again. Because at the start, I would really like try because I'd be like, oh, but I was like, you're not going to learn if I just like do it for you. So now, so you're just not. But then as I got older and like, I didn't realize that that is actually, it's not, I would just think people were lazy.

But actually it's not. It's that's exactly the same thing. It's not, it's not one. I had a friend who basically like he would do plays and stuff. He'd like direct plays. But he would always. leave no time and it would always be like oh yeah we didn't we couldn't really do it really and it it was like do you want to do it properly or not at all but then now i obviously see it was a real

that's a real problem of your own failure and fear of your own success fear of looking upon your best work and seeing what it truly is that's it that's that is the worst feeling and that happens so regularly with me where i'll like try really hard and be like yeah i mean it's not it's not great is it but you have to you have to you have to look but the more you do it. Yeah, and I think that's one of the biggest things is like the more you do do your best and see where it's lacking, the next time you do your best, you will be able to start to see it as what it is, which is your best. So it's like, it's like a practice thing. The more you do it, the less you will feel that gap between perfection and what you've created and the more comfortable

you'll feel with, because you'll start to compete with yourself, which is, that can become a problem, but it's a lot more healthy than never seeing what you're capable of, if you know what I mean. I think we're talking about the same friend, this, who directed these, friends, who directed these plays. He's somehow I find extremely fascinating because he's arguably one of the talentedest, naturally talented as people, I think. And yet, time after time was this self-sabotaging behavior of like, oh, we didn't have the money. Oh, we didn't have the time. Oh, we had to do this last minute. Always putting something in place to make sure that everybody needs. knew that this was not the best.

This was good but not the best. And this is think is something that is so common in people who were smart teenagers and who got away with it at school. His A-levels, the day before his A-levels, he was invited to a party with somebody very rich. They stayed up all night. He walked from the party, having been awake all night, to his English A-level, and did his English A-level exam.

and got the best results in the country. That behaviour is so deep in you when you learn that you can, you can get away with that. So therefore being presented until you can't. Until you can't. And then it's such a massive question. Here's a very important analogy I've been working on for many years. Okay.

I believe in life. And you can be one and they can change for in different aspects. You can be it one for one thing and one thing for another. But I believe in life, you are either a horse or a pony. Now, okay. Okay. Stay with it, everybody. The difference between a horse and a pony is merely size. So a pony will never become a horse. I thought a pony was a baby horse. Yes, a very common misconception among most people. Anyway, so the difference is merely in height. They are the same breed, but just two different strands of the family. But the thing about them is that a ponies are unbelievably clever. Like, they're really smart, they're really cheeky. They're like, they will let themselves. out of their stable and then they will let everybody else out. Like they just want to do, they just want to fuck things up. They want to be funny. They want, they do things because they're

naughty. A horse just behaves. It does what it is told. So at the beginning of your life, this is the thing about being a naughty teenager. A pony is exactly the sort who can get on the bus at GCSE's hungover, do their homework on the bus and still get an A star. And the moment that you learn that, the very first time you haven't revised and you still did well in that test or you got away with something, you learn to wing it. You can't ever come back. You're always just like, Oh, well, I'm never fucking doing it again. A horse never does that. A horse does its homework.

It shows up on time. It's there behaving. And so it seems like you're like, oh, well, it seems better to be a pony, right? But a pony ate never going to the Olympics. Like a ponies never go in the distance, you know, not in the way that a horse can. And so when it comes to it, when you're younger and smaller, it does seem cool to be a pony. But ultimately, you've got to be a horse. And it seems like boring and diligent and tedious to be a horse, but you've got to be a horse.

You've got to learn horse tendencies. You've got to learn most tendencies. Yeah, if you want to like achieve. So there's like three main self-sabotage habits, which is procrastination, which isn't self-sabotaging in and of itself. But when it becomes, you'll know if you're listening if you use it in a self-sabotaging way. I use it as well. Negative self-talk and overly critical thinking.

And that's where that gap between, that's the first part of it, where that gap between like what you want to do and how you want it to be. So you almost don't want to look at what. what your best work would be, because it's like the light is too bright and it will show you that you are not what you think you could be. And that goes hand in hand with perfectionism. So if you're a perfectionist, you will be so much more likely to be self-sabotaging, which is, when you think about it, incredibly cruel, because perfectionists just want to be perfect. So they are more likely to absolutely screw their life off. Not that life up, things that they

would like to be perfect, which then they will take so much harder than the average person, because they are a perfectionist. So a lot of it, the root cause of it will be, you're not lazy, you're not stupid. You just want to be the best. And you unfortunately can't be the best until you start to, it's like exactly like, you know, when people don't look at their bank balance

and then run out of money, they're like, why? It's like, well, you actually unfortunately need to look at the bank balance regularly. You need to get an app. You need to look at what, because otherwise how are you ever going to be able to keep track of your money. How are you ever going to progress,

if you don't look at what your limits are and go, okay, I'm good at this, but I'm not good at this. Or even like, I'll take writing, for example, like I used to be like that. I would write, I mean, now is kind of out of me because I've written so many things and got so many terrible feedback constantly

because that's what I'm being a journalist is. You just get editors being like, no, and you're like, okay. But at the start, like I was absolutely terrified to write an article. It's absolutely terrified. And then it's just through practice and being told. So now if an editor like edits my stuff in a way that I think is just poorly done,

I now have enough confidence to go, that's poorly done, mine was better. I don't have that with many things because I've not practiced it. I'm with like comedy. I'm like, whatever you say is right. Because I'm not, I've only done it for a few years. But like, you have to like be aware that it's so important to see your limitations. That what you create will not, or what you write or what you do, how you look at the party, you're never going to be like 10 out of 10 for any of it.

If you don't see yourself at 3 out of 10 and go, okay, this is where I am. How can I improve? This sounds very bad when I'm thinking about appearances. You're 3 out of 10. I don't mean that. Yeah, I think that's exactly it. Like Joan, you know, wants to make a short film doesn't, you know, stops herself. It's because, you know, she's suddenly like, oh, here it is.

I'm actually going to have to do it now. And I was going to see that this short film isn't what it's like when I imagine it in my mind. But like, everybody... It won't be. It won't be. But it will be so much better than nothing. Like, yeah. You know, I remember another friend who was obsessed with the idea that like Stanley Kubrick had never made anything bad. And I was like, I don't think that's true. And then it took me like seven seconds on the internet to be like, yeah, he made this short film called like Dog, Dog, Dog's Day out. Like, he made several terrible, terrible looking things because he had to learn on his way to making

masterpieces. You don't just come out the gate doing it. You make, you must make a trail of crap. You must make bad stuff. You must, in order to learn to make good stuff. But if you, but if you are self-sabotaging for things that aren't necessarily like creative or making things, you are self-sabotaging, for example, yeah, with like, oh, there's a phone call and I'm just going to make it so weirdly, I can't take that phone call, like, because it's an important phone call and, or it's a meeting or it's a presentation. Like, I'm just going to make sure that I'm not my best. for some reason. The only way that you'll be able to get through that

is to learn why you're doing it. Like that's the only way. So if you can't do that yourself, then I know we say it a lot and we've got an episode about how to get therapy. But getting therapy for those reasons is so important because I think people often, and I've had quite a few conversations to people recently

who are like, I don't really want to do therapy because, and it's because they don't have like the big Hollywood therapy like someone has done. so they are grieving. They are depressed or they aren't. So they're like, oh, I'm not going to go. But if you are, if you are self-sabotaging regularly, you know why and you can't stop, then that's a perfect reason to go to therapy.

You need to talk to somebody. You need to sit with something. No, no, I was just going to say exactly like what you did to me when I was like, I leave the house without the phone. And I was like, I know what the problem is. My elf is like, he-he-he, we can do it. And then you're like, what is your elf's elf saying? You need to go to therapy to find what your elf-elf-elf wants.

You know, and that's something that you can't do on your own because it's so deep and so buried. You need to sit with somebody who's like, why do you think you do that? And they're like, do you think it's this? And you can be like, mm-lim-lim, well, you know. One of the other, like, main things is to change your pattern of behaviour. So that's as much easier said than done because you, I mean, if you take things like, I don't know, going to the gym or something, you're like, oh, I want to go to the gym and then you just don't go to the gym for the next five years, which is what happens with most people.

like obviously changing that pattern would be go to the gym but if you could do that you do it but you have to look at other ways to trick your brain into I hate the gym analogy now but let's stick with it going to go into the gym like I'm just going to for 10 minutes I'm over 10 minutes once a week yeah that is achievable and then suddenly you find okay I could do 15 minutes and just like okay let's just try twice a week

and even if those incremental little baby steps don't, like, is over the course of, you know, a decade. And then you only, after a decade, you're only doing 20 minutes once a week. That's still more than you were doing before. You're still going to the gym. Like, you have to, you have to know what your behavior is. And you do know it. Like, you, if you really sit with it and think, so, you know, why do I do this or what happens? Think about something that you've, in your life, that you've been so excited to do and how you have reacted to it in the run-up and you will find self-sabotaging things. You know, like, unfortunately, there's not like top five simple way, because it's so

complicated, but it's all about like, yeah, I'm picking it and realizing that you will have limitations because you're a human being, so you won't be able to be perfect ever, but like, at least push it, like push and see how far you can fly. Like, why not? I think the, the, a lovely, a lovely expression that I, I don't know where it comes from, but I, imagine the deep south is you're too busy, you're too busy chasing cows to build a fence. Feels like the deep south. Right? You're too busy dealing with the minor, the surface level problem, which is like the cows escape. And every day you're like, oh, I've got to get the cows, get the cat. And then like, build a fence, mate. Like, just go to the root of the problem.

And so I think you, me, me being like, the crisps, the phone, the work, the late, the last minute work behavior. I need to write them down, be like, here are my things. This is why. This is the deep why and then be like okay now what are the things i can put in place to make sure i always you know and so if that's like oh crisps are an easy thing to buy and quick be like if that's your problem and you you know what are the other things that you can always have in the house or like what can yeah that are really quick and also like be aware of it as well speak to yourself like the moment you find yourself being like ah crisps be like oh she's doing it again like you just be aware that you like you're watching yourself doing it so like just be like oh yeah of course this is

the thing. And then when you next notice it, it's like, oh, this is the chance for me to do the other thing. Yeah. But it's really hard, but also as well, the crucial thing, I think it's so important is to not be horrible to yourself when you find that you have self-sabotaged again, even when you've tried not to. Because you will just continue, like, you will continue to do it the rest of your life. You just have to be aware of it. And the more aware of it you are, the more you can be kind to to yourself and kind of look at ways that will suit you. But then you'll do it again. And then you'd be like, no, I've done that thing again. But it's the more you don't. Because your brain like forms little pathways and it takes the easiest route.

You've created a pathway that is self-sabotaging. So it will always want to do that. The idea is that you now create another pathway, another option for those firing nerves to go like, oh, actually there is another way. But you have to do that so many, you have to do that the same amount of times. That path becomes so well trodden that your brain's like, well, that one obviously. Yeah. Because right now it's like, hummus and vegetable cruditates.

That's just as likely as crisps. what we have, you know? Yeah. But you just got to put those things in place. Oh, Steve, I've got to go buy some vegetable cruditates. And I've got to do with my work. I've been putting off for weeks. Sure. I've been putting it off because I do not want to look on the reality of my work. Yes, but it's fine because the reality of your work is your work. And if it's not as good as you hoped, then you have the power brilliantly to make it better. Like, you can't make it better until you've seen what it's at the standard it is. I can't make it better until I've seen it. Oh, okay, I feel so free. Okay. Great. I hope you do too, Joan. Joan, I hope that's

been of some, that's some help. It's really, really clear from your writing that your elf is that you are afraid of, you know, how good, you're, you have so, you believe you have so much potential, which we obviously do as well, and you're afraid of it. And you've just got to be so brave and be like, yeah, my first things will be bad, you know. And remember that you haven't seen people's bad stuff because they don't publicise it, did they? Oh my God. The Very Hungry Caterpillar, it was originally called A Week with Willie the Worm. No, it wasn't. That's awful. Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Things are crap to start with. And you can only improve if you take care of yourself and you stop eating the grisps.

Hopefully that helps. And that's the last, um, the last NP, nobody panicked, uh, until Feb. 2031. Can you believe that? So use, use Jan to, to really attack those self-sabotaging habits. Make some nice lists and really write the list. Don't just write like, oh, I'm sure this. Be like, but why? Really, really. What is your elf saying?

And what is your elf's elf saying? Exactly. And I think if you've, we can't be more any clearer than that. Okay? No. I think this has been a nice one. I feel very positive. It's been a lovely one.

I've enjoyed it. Please do follow us on Twitter at Nobodyopadick pod or me at StevieM. The S is 5 at Tessa Coates. Email us, nobodyepadipotcast at gemal.com. If you have any ideas for some things that you would like us to tackle in February? That's French of February. Oh, Trébiard.

Trebion. And yeah, thank you so much for listening this year. It's been a hard year, but we've really loved being in your ears. It's been an absolute pleasure and a delight. It has been, and we can't tell you how much we appreciate all your lovely, lovely messages and things and your support. It's been really magic. And Stevie, it's been a pleasure.

An absolute honour and a delight, Tessa. And an officer and a gentleman. An officer and a gentleman to you. And yes, see you in Feb, guys. See you in February. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Bye-bye.