Nobody Panic - How to survive the graduate wasteland

Episode Date: September 25, 2018

Freaking out after graduating? Graduated years ago and still freaking out? Stevie and Tessa get tips and tricks on how to navigate the tricky period that can only really be described as a 'hellscape abyss'. No, you're being hyperbolic.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. have you graduated or have you not straight in

in look this is about graduating and you're welcome if you have never graduated you're just welcome you're always welcome don't feel you have to leave there'll be some as ever

just absolutely classic gags um aren't be wicking out some jokes but yeah we've sort of called it the graduate wasteland which is quite scary but also because I think it just is scary even if you are doing a graduate scheme and you're like I've got my life sorted out

you're still like oh oh no I'm now out of education And also there'll be lots of people listening who were like, well, I didn't go to university and that's fine. We just thought lots of people asked us about it. So we thought we might as well.

Like we did one on them. We've done one on the things that I haven't done. So, you know. Something so mean about it. Just because you haven't gone to university, it doesn't mean everyone hasn't. I think there are some similar feelings even if you have just left education or, you know, the feelings are there.

I felt very passionately about this one, have done for a long time. because I think it's one that absolutely nobody tells you. Yes. They try, but they don't really. I don't think they even, no one even tried. Well, there were those graduate fairs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they just gave you a pen. I mean, I took a pen and I have so many pens. I didn't listen to anything they were saying. They gave me some sweets, some Deloitte sweets. That's what I mean? They're trying, but it's half-assed because it's only about like specific things, like schemes.

You're like, well, what if I don't want to work at Deloite? So there's no, after I took their pen and their suite, I was like, there's absolutely no chance I'm ever going to work at this. I don't even know what you do, Deloite. You financial, I still don't know. No, I did. My friend works there. Yeah. Like, they got got in by the sweets. Yeah. I'm sure it's a wonderful place to work. But they, um, it's some kind of financial advisory, I think, or scheme or bank. Could be a bank. Could be a bank. I don't think it's a bank. But I was like, it's obviously not for me. I don't even know what you do. Yes. And so there was no. Very savvy of you. Thank you. There was absolutely no help. if you weren't going to do the law conversion or do a graduate scheme or, you know, something very clear that was at the graduate affairs. Or like teaching or something. Teaching.

Like those are the very clear steps. And if you didn't feel like any of those were quite right, you burp. I just burped out there. Yeah, but you're propping them to the side. So, you, yeah, so like they were there to help you into your next, into your job. But what was not there for you at all was anybody prepping you for what it was going to be like. Psychologically. Psychologically.

to leave because you've been through education for such a long time and you go through, you have terms and exams and then you go up a year because the passage of time has moved. It couldn't be more of a meritocracy. It's like, I work hard, I get grade. I don't know why you're talking like a caveman, but we are. And then I move on. Meritocracy is such a nice word.

It is, isn't it? And does it mean you rise through merit? Good. Please, carry on your point. There's such a clear thing of like, I work hard, I get this, which means this. And then when you, all of that disappears and is taken away, you're then cruelly left to realise the fact that that just isn't how life works. Sadly, sometimes it does. Sometimes you work really hard and then you get what you want.

Immediately. Sometimes you work really hard, then you don't get what you want, then you don't, and then you don't, and then you don't. And then you do. Sometimes you never do. It's a very tricky life we all are having. And I think you just need to, you need to be prepared a little bit more. Yeah. Rather just like, off you go.

Off you go now. You like throw your hat in the air and you have these big talks. you know, leaving high school, leaving thing, leaving university, these big talks, they say like, go into the world, like become who you're meant to be. Whatever you want to be. And you're like, who? How.

Who? Hello. Hats. Hey, how, what? Should I just keep this hat? You have to give it back because you rented the hat. I hated that aspect. I had a fake scroll as well.

Yeah, there's bullshit in the pictures. I never got my degree. They never sent me my degree. I don't know if I've got my degree either. Should I make you one? Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Done. Anyone else? Once one? Let me know. They don't, you've been through your whole life, your whole waking conscious life, you've been in a place where someone said, draw a picture. The best picture goes on the wall. Do this exam. If you can get the right marks, you can have a sticker.

Every day, someone gave you an activity and you tried to do it and you understand the rules. And you can definitely think the rules are bullshit. Like, I think the exam system in this country is fundamentally flawed and it's hopeless. And the further away you are from it, the more you're like, we shouldn't have done that to the children. Yeah. What a mistake. I think when then going. into the world there's no you're like but where are the quizzes where are the activities where is the

term time yeah i did a really good day today nobody's given me a grade no one's given me a grade does anyone want to grade my day i think i still have that really hard that i want someone to give me a grade oh god yeah i'd love that i'd love a grade you'd give me real impetus right just for everything and you could go up or down a grade you could understand how to do it better because it doesn't it feels like there's no sense of how do we do this better where's where's the rules where's the the past papers once you get into like a career job or just any something sort of job, that sort of starts to happen again. You'll start to recognise things like so a promotion is just basically getting a sticker again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like a pay rise is getting a sticker,

but you get to buy a house, maybe after it. Yeah. And like workplaces often have incentives to just make their workers feel better and feel like they're doing a good job and you have like regular check-ins every year when I work. But nothing is as a sticker though, is it? No, I just want stickers, if I'm honest. I found that kind of quite useful when I was working in an office and I thought that was like quite a nice, because you were working towards something and it reminded me of being at school. But in between my first job, I did an MA immediately after university.

So basically I just stayed in university longer because I was frightened. And also because I wanted to train as something. And then I had two years of no job. So yeah, there was two years between my MA and my first like job. And it was fine when I got the job because then you feel like you're,

ah, finally I've arrived. I'm part of society. Yeah, yeah. The bit in between was hell. Yeah. It was just absolute hell. I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah.

And it's so terrifying. It's awful. And you feel like everyone else is in this club that you're not in. Not in the club. And also you constantly feel really old. Like immediately you're like, oh, well, I'm probably past getting a job now at 22. Yeah. Yeah, you are.

Well, I'm over the hill, so I'm never going to. I'm never going to get. Which is hilarious now that I'm, you know, much, much older. Now who said, well, I'll never go to a child. They do sometimes. When I used to work at the debrief, there'd be like work experience people. And they'd say, like, oh, so I'm a little bit old. And you'd be like, well, how old are you?

about 23 and I'd be like, jump out the window. Like, what are you talking about? No, you never, and it's like 78 in your interning. I'd say, A, good on you. B, yes, it is quite unusual. Fine, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you're here. But anything under 78, 77, you're a spring chicken. Absolutely fine.

But 78, get out. Get out. So we're going to dive into that hellscape, that wasteland, that abyss. And we're using very dramatic language here, but I stand by it. I do. It was quite bad in there. Hi, bad, I did have a nice time. And it's not something that people, I think, ever talk about enough.

Certainly not while you're in it. It was like, it was genuinely hard. Like, now we're all sort of okay to laugh about it. But at the time, it was hard to find the jokes because it was all a bit mad. And then also everyone's kind of trying to sound really professional because you have to, like, fake it so you make it. So whenever anyone would be like, so what are you up to? I'd be like, oh, you know, bits and bobs, got some stuff on the go. Yeah, yeah.

Had you nothing on the go. Yeah, yeah. Confed things. Got a few fingers and a couple of pies. actually. And by that I mean, I've actually, I've gotten my finger on an actual buy. Can you help me? I got heavily into jam. Did you? Making jam. Yeah. I was at my, living at home and my dad would go to work every day. He was furious with me. Because of all the jam. Because I wasn't, wasn't leaving and he couldn't comprehend how I was in this house still. Understood. He was so cross with me. And also he was retiring that year. And I think he was so angry that he was like, why have I still got a job? And I just made a lot of jam.

You should just sold the jam. Yeah, that's the thing. That's exactly what he said. He was like, why I only got any business acumen. And I was like, not everyone has business acumen. No, I certainly did. I was too busy drawing strawberries on labels. I would say that is a skill

that maybe you still don't possess and that's a good thing. I think it's a positive thing. We don't all have to have business acumen. Like, I think you've got lots of amazing ideas and then you would team up with someone that would be able to make your jam into a thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's, as you get older, you accept like, cool, like I'm probably not going to start a business single-handedly. That's not, like, my skill. But you found all your other skills. And when you're like, you know,

tossed out into the, graduate wasteland nobody has told you your skills other than like you've got this degree and you're like great so actually quite actively how can I apply that to anything yeah but in a real way I suppose I should be like Richard Branson and then like not everyone has not everyone has not everyone is like no no one can be Richard Branson I'm sorry not so let's circle back in circle back in what's your adult thing of the week my adult thing is two nights ago I was like feeling quite sad and then as I thought what do when they're sad well I mean people say that like I don't know they bake and stuff and I was like I'm not going to bake and then I realised I had everything for banana bread so I'm baked and I made a banana bread and then

I ate the whole banana bread and it just really made me happy. Was it delicious? It was absolutely delicious. I put in way more sugar than they said and more bananas and it was acceptable like because if there was any less sugar it would have been rubbish. My mom got me this wonderful present for a couple of Christmases ago which was all of the old recipes used to make me when I was little like meals and stuff. Oh my God written down. Not only written down scanned in a book that she called a Harry Potter spell book and so that it was like potions. And so all of like the pastas and so when I'm feeling sad

and she got one for my sister as well so whenever we're being sad. Yeah because they're from her notebook all they're scanned in from like recipe books that she's torn out and whatever. It's really adorable and so when we're sad me and Gina will make the pasta salad that my parents used to make whatever

just to like make us like that's so nice. It's so great but now I've for the first time got my own one that I sort of because it's you've got your own recipe your first recipe. Banana bread because I modified the same spruce one. It's not the same one. Stevie's banana bread.

Yeah, it's got chocolate in it. You could be on those Tesco's food love stories. Oh my God. Sarah's say sorry spaghetti. Say sorry spaghetti. And in her eyes, she's like, what did you do, Sarah? What have you done? It looks like she's shot on the couch.

There's no one else in that, on my billboard. So it's like she's killed all her friends. Yeah, she's all alone. She's all alone. Saying sorry with spaghetti. I found them so stressful. They're all stressful. But yeah, so that was my adult thing.

Oh, well done. I was very happy about. What's yours? Mine is that I rented a car. That's great. You can drive. We should make that very clear. I can drive.

Yeah, I just go. They let me have one. It's outside. I've never rented a car in my life. And when people say they rented a car, I'm always like, hmm. Sure. Like a house? Yeah.

How did you do that? You know, I've absolutely no concept of how that would happen. I went to a 30th birthday party in the south of France. Woo! That is good. That's very adult as well. Very adult. Already, very grown up.

But that, I was just invited. So I can't retake any credit for that. Sure. It was in a very, very rustic, but fantastic. her grandma's old, old French farmhouse with an outdoor toilet. So like real rustic and everyone like chipping in and then a beautiful outdoor dinner.

So nice. In fact, I talked about it ages ago about me booking these multiple flights because it was so cheap. That was the other adult thing. And I felt so great about it. And then took this flight, then I was getting, didn't want anyone to have...

So I took the car. So I drove. Didn't one. I booked a load of flights and then I thought, you know what would even make this better if I drove. No. I heard of like it got in quite late

I didn't want anyone to have to come and get me so I rented a car Was this like a spontaneous thing when you got into the airport And you're like no no no I have thought about it I did it a week before imagine if I didn't it in the airport That would be insane just like Other side of the road and all that Other side of the road all right

I felt so grown up my one misstep And you got to have one Ryanair sent me an email being like Do you want a car? And I was like I do thank you Ryan And then it was like 50% off these cars in the gold car section. So I thought gold cars, well, they must be the best cars.

Oh, dear. And they were like, nine pounds a day. And I was like, very reasonable. Book these, like, I was like, I paid 20 pounds for a car. Got there. And obviously gold car was like the shittiest section. They were like the local car with like a hand drawn paper sign that said gold car. Right.

And then like hurts and a Viva and all the like professional ones. And then you pay the nine pounds a day. Then they're like, you have to pay this enormous insurance premium and everything. So I did get a bit stung, but better that than dropping it off with like a tiny scratch and them saying you owe us £2,000. I think, learning curve, you've got to learn. Absolutely. And you've got to learn on the job. Otherwise, you'll always think the gold car is the best car.

I would have said it was. Right? I didn't know. What's better than gold? Well done. You know what isn't about renting a car. What? Graduating.

It certainly is not. It's not about that. So I did a tweet today. That's the end. No, I did a tweet about asking people, thank you. Asking people about their advice. In terms of surviving that graduate wasteland and a lot of people being like,

oh my God, I really need this in my life. Before I go into the good advice that you all rose to the challenge with, which you absolutely did. Thank you so much for everyone that tweeted. I'll try and get through as many as possible. There was a PR company. There's like a travelling company that I won't name

who got in touch being like, travelling is a really great way to prepare you for jobs and really helpful to do when you graduate. Which would like us to send some research over. And that in a tweet was exactly why I found the graduate waste land so difficult. of the idea of like, well, the graduate wasteland's not difficult if you can just go traveling because you've got the money.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm also not shaming anybody who's got money and can go traveling. That's wonderful. But that's not quite the same as being in London with no money and having to be a waitress and like not knowing what you want to do with your life. You could do that in India and that obviously comes with its own challenges. Yeah, the traveling thing. And absolutely, you hit exactly the nail on the head that everyone's like, well, why not just go?

Like, just take it here. Just take it out, babe. And you're like, oh my God, like just re-grewing the Italian doodoyne. Just go. And I think like, while that is an excellent idea. And if you have the money, do it. And have the money to do it. But also, even if you do have the money, I did do a gap year.

And I worked for six months of it. I worked in Canada for six months. And then I went travelling for the other half. And so I paid my, but I did pay for myself all the way around. Yeah, yeah. And I worked all the way around doing it. Gapy is very different to traveling after graduation. And then people said, like, why don't you go and work abroad and whatever, go if you

I don't got anything else to do, why don't you go abroad? And it felt like, even I was like, yeah, why don't I go and just work somewhere else? It felt like I was still running away from the problem. Yes. That was to me. So I think the travelling thing is this huge. Oh, see, I didn't even think about the work aspect of it. I think, like, if you are genuinely, I was completely adrift.

All you've got, like, decisions to make. University was incredibly tough. I just need some time out and you can go and work somewhere. Then, like, I guess, yes, that is actually a really good option. I meant more of just like, oh, I'll just spend a loads of money and go walking around South Asia. Yes, and I think even if someone had given me the money, I'm just saying like, I agree with you. Is there someone giving me the money to go to South Asia and walk around it?

I wouldn't have gone because I would have been like, I knew I was putting stuff off. I would to be walking being like, why am I walking? How can I possibly have a good time? Yes. Because I think when you go before university, you're like, I'm doing this thing and I'm going to go to university, so I'm trying to get in as much as I can and you feel so excited. And then going afterwards, you just feel like, what am I doing? What am I doing this?

Yes, I agree. I think you kind of, it's like a waste of my moment. And when I go back, I'm only just going to have to be doing this longer. and I've lost a year. But then it is tricky. If you don't know what you want to do at all, that is really hard, but you should still,

maybe a good tip is to still immerse yourself in something that keeps you connected to the world. Because even if that is going home, you're still surrounded by people that care for you, love you and you can chat to about like career options. You can apply for jobs at any point if you want them. Whereas if you're in Thailand, sure, you could probably get a career in Thailand

and maybe it becomes like your thing. You're probably not going there for the job opportunity. So it's good to kind of keep yourself plugged into stuff. So at least you feel like you're doing something, even if that thing is just sitting on the sofa crying and eating crisps every day, which is kind of why I did. Yeah. You made a lot of jam.

I had a lot of crisps. We got some good tips. This is from at Claire E. Lowe. Hi, Claire. She just says, just do something, anything, so you don't go insane. I worked in a charity shop. Downside was that I kept spending money. And obviously, if you work in a charity shop,

you are often volunteering, so you don't get making any money. But she got some ace bargains from the students who had moved down. And also, I suppose you feel like you are part of the world. You are functioning and you're keeping yourself active so that you're open to thoughts and ideas about what you actually want to do. Jenny Mullander said, make sure you give yourself some dedicated time and space to look for jobs in your field and your dream career, even if you need to take that job in retail or admin or whatever. If you're still working towards your goals, you'll feel less disheartened about it all.

Which I think is a great thing. Because I made a really bad mistake when I was doing mine, which is where it's not a mistake to do this sort of job. but for me it was. I did waitressing, which meant that I was doing, I don't know, like maybe five shifts a week or whatever. And those shifts would be in the week, they'd be quite late. They'd go on really, really late. So, and then I'd be fully exhausted the next day, so I couldn't really do anything. And then you'd work, like, all weekend.

So I felt, like, fully isolated from social occasions. And also, I didn't have the energy because it's such a physical job. I didn't have the capacity to do an internship at the same time because I tried and I would just fall asleep. to, it was only when I quit doing waltressing and I started doing another job that was, I went to a cinema, which was a lot more chilled out, quite boring,

but it meant that I had space to around that job do stuff that was helpful for my career rather than my temp job become my entire life. I basically just like lost my way a bit because I was like, well, nothing's happening in the journalism thing

and I've just been made supervisor at this restaurant, so, but I hated it. So like, I think... Were you the supervisor? At one point. I have never, excelled to supervisor. Once, those wedding people I used to work for

for years and years, and then we like got there once and they said, oh, we haven't got a manager today. And then they were like, um, and I was like so clearly the most of senior, but I've been there for so long. And they were like, is it, is it pose, poppy? Is what you're name? They're like, gone on her like second day.

Like, you're in charge now. And I was like, they're like, you're a loose canon. You can't be left in charge. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's fine because again, if that was your career and something that you really wanted to do that would really stink. Yeah, well, it's time at the time, but it's still the time

and they're looking back. I'm telling it. No, it shouldn't because you didn't have a passion for it. I was bad, and also I was bad. And you were bad. And I kept giving away free stuff on the bar. You've immediately come to the issue. If it was your career, you would have maybe not done that

because he would have been so eager to get stuff right and so be interested in it. I just, yeah. Arthur Thomas also had some good tips that I thought was good. One of them was be flexible. If your dream job isn't available, think about the skills and experience that would be required for your dream job

and find any job that helps you build that experience. That's a really nice way of looking at it. Like, one of the massive steps between university and having a job I found was that when I, whatever I did work experience, I was so terrified of offices. Like, I found offices really, it was like when I was little and I'd go into pubs

and I'd be like, this is the grown-up place. Yeah, yeah. And you think that everyone is like, everyone knows each other and everyone knows the secret thing that you don't. Everyone knows that you're not supposed to be there. And the difference between those two, I think can be bridged by doing temp jobs, receptionist jobs, jobs that deal with.

with the public jobs that you won't realize, but they're actually equipping you to, if that's a word, to deal with problems and in a professional way. And like, those little things that will give you more confidence so when you're actually in an office, you won't be like, oh! And you won't realize, but I think, like, being a waitress did help me interview members of the public

when I went on to be a journalist because I had spoken to them and I'd also had them shout at me. And I'd also, like, known what to do if someone had thrown the drink everywhere or whatever. You just, you become more chilled out. Taking bookings on on a phone makes you able to talk to people on the phone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is a terrifying thing.

Oh, Stevie once I got sent home for back chat. Oh, did you? Yeah, there's a lot of memory surfing sitting here about how bad I was. If it makes you feel better, I was a supervisor in one restaurant, but the restaurant before that, I got fired because I screamed at the manager and called him a misogynist. And I left, like, mid-shift. He said I had an attitude problem. So, like, I think-

I kept tucking my tea cloth into my apron. I thought it looked trendy. Yeah, sure. And they said, stop doing that. And then I said, that's absurd. And then I put it back in again. Then they sent me home for back chat. It's like being at school.

Yeah. Very much. My sister used to do it as well, and she said she always pretended that we weren't related so that people wouldn't, she wouldn't be tired with the same brush. Because she was always so good at her job. She was the supervisor. Your little sister was a supervisor. Yeah.

Great. Well, she was good and it's really sensible. She didn't ever give away the free drinks. She doesn't. But I'm sure Amy has things that you do that she wishes, you know, like, you know, you know, there's all skills everywhere. The skills are not the same skills. I think a very good point.

And what's this nice gentleman's name? Arthur Thomas. Oh, Arthur. Lovely name, Arthur. I was just thinking that, because I really did apply for some absolutely insane things. Head of BAFTA. Head of BAFTA was one of them.

And I really, it was to organise the BAFTA's. And I was like, oh, you're not joking. No, I'm not joking. You applied to be head of BAFTA. 100%. That's not a joke. Oh, I've thought the whole time that you were joking. No, 100% true.

This is absolutely brilliant. I haven't got any imagination. So it's all just real things. So I applied to be head of BAFTA to organise the BAFTAs. A bit of context. What were you doing at the time? Just graduated, living at home, making the jam. Right.

I was every day... Did anthropology. With my anthropology, my total rubbish degree. You couldn't do anything with it. I couldn't go and do any research. There was nothing you could do with that. It's a problem being an academic. I was like, I'm not going straight background to being an academic.

And I was on sort of all those websites like... Bafter. Milk round and like Mani.com and ideas tap and all. those sort of... Oh, I think all of those have gone under now, possibly. But like all those places that you'd go and look for jobs, and they would have different things would pop up every day, and then you'd apply and, like, thousands of people would apply.

And one of them was literally to run the BAFTAs. And I was like, I bet I could do that, like, with a thing in my ear, calling it, doing the seating plan. I was like, yeah, I really did apply for that. And then my dad, you know, would try and coax me down to be like, maybe stop applying for these, like, extremely senior head positions. No one's going to give it to you. And I think you get in your head that you're like,

I don't want to, you know, work in the bakery or do reception or do any of these things. I want, I have dreams. And you're like, sure, sure. And no one's taking those dreams away. You just have to do a bit of time at the bottom of the bladder now. And like start it here. And yes, I'm sorry. And it's rough.

And like, you just have to make the tea for a bit. And don't get yourself downhearted that this is forever, which I definitely did. That I was like, well, this is, well, I just make the tea forever. I'm rubbish or all my job. I have, in creative industries have, but I think it works for non-creative industries as well, have felt exactly the same as you in terms of like, well, I'm not doing that. Like, well, I'm beyond that.

Because maybe they've done like extracurricular stuff at uni that they've like maybe been the editor of a paper. Yeah, and then I've been the director to telegraph. Yeah, and you're like, no. Even like the features writer and you're like, no, still, you have to go in right at the bottom. You have to intern. Being at the bottom rung of the ladder, it's horrible.

You feel very worthless and kind of small. But it really does help later on, I think. So much. So much. It makes you a. a much better person. There are so many things that were not nice to go through at the time

like having to work through university or pay for yourself through things that you were like well everybody else doesn't have to do it but it gives you such a bullshit about being character building and you're like oh god

they were right. They were right. I mean like people say like getting bullied as character building and you're like no it's not but that is like I think that you learn about money you learn to not to take things for granted

a little bit more and sure maybe in like 20 years time if I'm like loaded and I'm like arriving on a spaceship, then maybe, you know, I'll forget those humble messages. I don't think you ever will because you won't ever, you, for example, sometimes you demand good service in restaurants,

but you are never dismissive or mean or horrible to people because when it's in you, that never goes away. You never forget being on the bottom. That's true. So you're never, you sort of got to be the bottom rung. More tips. Oh, this is really nice. Because I think one thing as well that people don't talk about enough

is how gross job hunting is when you're in that situation. Like you're saying, you kind of go like, because you don't know what sort of jobs to apply for, so you end up applying for Head of Bafter. Maybe you don't listen, but Tessa does. And then, but certainly jobs that are out of your remit. And then you have to kind of the act of scaling down is so depressing. And then it becomes when you don't, I remember I didn't get a job once.

I can't remember what the details were, but I remember being so depressed about it. I was like, a monkey could do that job. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't even get that. And it's not that. It's because so many people have applied for it. It's not them saying you're so stupid, you can't even get a job in a bar. No, is it?

It's not that. Thousands of people applied and it happened to go, that's the thing that I think we should also discuss is it probably went to somebody's nephew. Like the amount of times that jobs just get put up publicly because they have to legally advertise them. But actually it's already been given to somebody and so you put your sort of whole heart into trying to get something

and it's not, you don't get it. And the job was already yours. So don't take that on board. Which is why you shouldn't isolate yourself. You should try, because what I found from talking to people who've gone through this as well is that like, so when I did my journalism MAA, the actual

MA itself, I don't think got me a job. I mean, it didn't absolutely at all. What got me the job was the people I was in the year with, I stayed in touch with just because I was like, I'm so lonely and we all hung out a lot. And then, so then when they got jobs and then

a position came up in their company, they'd be like, oh, Steve'd be good. And that's how I got my first job and my second job, because someone was like, I'm leaving, would you like to do it? Or I can't do this. And that's also how, as a freelancer, that's how I get jobs, is that someone else can't do a feature or someone, like, recommends me for something. And I've got my sister job. And everyone just passes it along, so that nepotism starts to work for you.

And I think I was so incandescent with rage at this whole nepotistic world, because I was like, I don't know anybody. And so this is awful. But actually, you will know people. Yeah. So try, yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? You fight it so much at the beginning because you're like, well, I haven't got an uncle who's so-and-so. Yeah.

Uncle so and so and so and so and you're so angry that you haven't got the uncle but someone else has you will be given things and offered things and it will start to work for you because you're a nice person people will say oh this person is great and once you're in the game like those things will start to happen and that is what nepotism

it's nepotism is quite an ugly word but that is what the whole game is and we're so networking is it networking we're so desperate of this vision where we didn't have to do any of the ugly stuff we didn't have to promote ourselves and we didn't have to like try and sell yourself you just got picked and passed along and you didn't have to do anything ugly but actually it's all quite ugly. It is all quite ugly but it's also means that like stuff will come from

the stuff that you don't expect so you just have to keep going I think it doesn't matter what you're doing just keep going forward it doesn't matter if the next step looks really bleak and you're like I don't want to do that don't question don't try not to side eye as much as you can even though it's impossible and then stuff will happen yeah it took me a long time I remember just with journalism and it took me a long time before anything came from anything I was doing. But I do remember there was like a whole year where I was just writing for these free blogs and sort of writing my own blog that didn't do very well. And nobody ever paid me for anything.

I never got anything from anything else. But I sort of just kept going because I was like, well, if I stopped and I've literally failed and my parents have put me through this MA, which I'm still paying them back for, and I failed everybody. So I had to kind of keep going. And then I just remember like a year in, which is like, long time when nothing's happening just for when I was sort of like I'm going to have to do something else one of my friends was working for this career company and they were like oh they need

like a blogger to write like these money saving blogs for like 10 pounds a blog post and I was like oh my god I'm getting paid so I did it for like 10 pounds a blog post did like one every two weeks and then from that someone else moved across to something else and were like oh stevie does these blog things for us so maybe she could and suddenly I started to write for places that were a little bit more but it was so incremental and so small that at the time I felt like I was making no progress at all but when I look back it was lots of progress over a long period of time yes when you look back it's this very very clear like stepping stones yeah like of course it makes so much sense but when you're that's the thing the light only shines backwards like at the time it's just like absolutely

pitch black in there you just say yes to everything you sometimes say yes to everything and no matter how shit this job sounds or they're like come and do this for a month and you're like this one's dreadful a hundred percent it's not for that it's for something three steps down the line where someone who worked with you at that is like, oh, they were fun. Yeah, and that still happens now. Yeah, and that will happen for the rest of your life. And you just have to realize that thing, you do it, you do it, not for it for itself, but for a secondary thing that you don't know what that is yet.

Yeah. So there's a lot of sort of faith involved. Basically, it's just you have to leave the house. Yeah. No one is ever going to come around to your house and give you a job. And no matter how much I thought that was going to happen while I was making jam. Hey, I couldn't help but notice that I could smell jam. Yeah.

No one's going to run your jam empire for you while you just sit there drawing strawberries. I wish they would. I wish that too, but it's not going to happen. One day you will have a jam empire. Alex B says that contacts were key for me. At the very least, to give you an idea of how to build up your CV. Actually, that is a thing that you can do. If there's somebody doing a job that you think is quite cool, I've done that before,

email, just go for coffee, or just email for them for some tips or ask if there's any kind of work experience. going in their company. Nobody hates getting those emails. Like I used to get those emails as well. And like, I'd be fine with being like, cool, I'll just, you know, when I was working in an office, I'd ask around and try and help people out and stuff. Okay. Oh, yeah, someone, Sean Brett here says, ignore social media and do nice things for yourself and remind yourself that everyone goes through it. Because I think that's, yeah, she's currently technically in the Barron Waste Land. And she says, get boring. And I think that's the thing. We're talking about it in these kind of big, like, hyperbolic terms. Also, it's just crashingly dull. Yeah. Every day being like, right, what

we're going to do today. I was just thinking then about so much coming up for me here. Yeah. Guys. No, I was just thinking then about how boring it is and how like you've just got to do something else and how what a massive sort of chip you have on your shoulder when you're in it because you're so cross with people. I did this tele sales job for the post office and um again, asked to leave. I was actually the supervisor at the post office. I was too chatty and I kept ignore. I didn't do all the full questions when they're like, would you say it was a, very satisfactory, be unsatisfactory, and I didn't read them out, I just said

what's your experience like, and then I just made it up. Reprimanded in the kitchen. And I remember then a friend, or also an acquaintance, saying, meeting at a party and being like, oh, apparently you're like working for the post office, which technically was true and I just couldn't, I couldn't laugh about it, I was so... That friend is a dick. Yeah, that

friend is a dick, but also I was like, I was so deep in that I wasn't able to make any jokes or able to laugh at the situation or be like, yeah. Now I would be like, ha ha, I'm doing this job of the post office. Wouldn't mind making some money. Nice to be out of the house. Because I was doing that phone thing job for that fantastic tutoring company the other day. Oh yes. And I was like, having a lovely time.

Thrill to be here. You know, when you feel all right in yourself, any job is absolutely fine. But when you, you're like, no, it's not the post office. Shut up. I think the kind of social media thing is an issue because people tend to brag about their first jobs because they've been in the wasteland and been so sad. They finally get out and they've been hurt by other people bragging about their jobs. They're like, it's my turn now.

So it's so blessed to have got a position. Oh my God. And you're like, work so hard for this. Dreams do come true, guys. Stay in there. And that's being like people leaving the wasteland being like picked up by the... Come back into the swamp. Get back in the swamp.

At least we're all in it together. Yeah. When people start leaving the swamp, it's so stressful when people that were in the swamp with you that you were like, you know, in the trenches, you know, having a path. Hal in there. When they do leave the swamp, it's like, okay? And so just try and be nice on your way out of the swamp if you are going out. Once this girl put on Facebook, um, went for this job at,

I think like the National Opera House or something. Went for this job at the National Opera House. Didn't get it, of course, in which case you're like, oh, right on, girl. And then she put, instead, they made a totally new position just for me and gave me that. And I just remember being like, bleh. Oh my God. There's no need for that. There's no need for that. We didn't need a plot. We didn't need a beginning of middle end. We didn't need a twist. It's like, what? And I know it's so much for you, you're like, I want to tell everyone the plot. Everyone must know the journey. Tell your parents.

Tell your friends. All your actual friends already knew that as an announcement. The only people who didn't know are the people who were going to be hurt by it because they're like, I haven't got a job and I'm on Facebook at 4 in the morning. It's so sad. I basically exclusively went on Facebook, sort of between the hours of two and five just to look at what everyone else was doing. Because in the day I was really like, no, don't look at it.

Don't look at it. And then obviously breaking and being like, I'm looking at every. one who was on my MA and all of their jobs and they all, they all had jobs. Of course they didn't. You're just looking at the ones that do because the people who don't are not coming out of the woodwork. We are in the swamp. We can't do Facebook statuses about how we're in the swamp because no one wants to know about that. No one on Instagram is putting about how like they didn't get out of bed today because they got rejected from a job that was like entry level and their 25. Also it's worth saying that the goalposts have changed. So what you're comparing yourself to is a

generation above you who had it better. Actually, I don't think it had it better, just had it a different way. Had it a different way for sure. They would start earlier, go in their jobs for longer. There were just more graduate jobs out there. They were just more available. Yeah. And more people now want to do creative stuff.

And the creative path is always going to be harder than the non-creative path too. And you could do anything you like. So why would you go, I'm only going to do this one thing? Like you will probably be kind of going, well, I could do this, I could do this, I've picked the right one. Like, there's a lot of stress there. And that's the thing I think that we don't talk about as millennials, but like is underneath a lot of our millennial issues is this,

you can be anything that we got told so often. And then when you realize, when you're like, well, did I fuck it up? Because I can't seem to do anything. And I had them. Yes, exactly. Yeah, I've tried loads of things and none of them have worked. So obviously I can't do anything. Yeah.

Which is. But you absolutely can. It's just harder. And though sometimes it will feel like, wouldn't that be easier if they just said, you'll work here till you're 10 and then you'll go work down the mine and you're like well at least somebody made the choice i know yeah at one point you do you do just want like a voice to fill the room and go do this and you're like oh my god yes that is my path and one thing as well i won't scream this but i will like reiterate it and i want you to like chant it to yourself

you're not too old you're not too old to do anything like you're not on a time limit you're not going to die at 30 you've got all the time in the world you have got so much time like my mom went to university when she was 38 retrained as a interior designer she got her degree when she was 40 or 41 and then had a whole secondary career between 40 and 50 you could do anything you like this is just your first go at it so this wasteland you're gonna pick yourself up out of the swamp and have your first go it's like the first wave yeah and then after the first after that wave has died down you might decide you don't like it then second wave you've got as many waves as you like until you die in those articles where they're like what

your first car? What was your first job? No one ever says, my first job is the one I am in now. And it was wonderful. It has never changed. It has never changed. And I love it. And, you know, all the interesting people did hundreds of different things. And so just, you know, realize it's your first one rather than this huge, like, well, this is the job. And now everyone's judging me. It's like, it's just your first job. Like, just get in there. Yeah. And it feels so easy. And I know we're literally shouting down to the swamp, which when I was in the swamp and anyone shouted anything in, I'd be like, get to, you don't get to say anything. Yeah. And you're not in the A swamp.

And I remember having this crying on the phone to a man doing this newspaper article about how tough a time were the graduates having it. And I was being interviewed. And he made me count up the numbers of cups of tea I'd made that year. And he put a little graph in the newspaper. And then I was at my grandparents' house and I cried. And then my granddad cried because he was so sad for me. And like didn't know how to help, you know, because we're such an enormous gulf of like,

I don't know what you're going through. And I remember the man on the telegraph saying, well, you know, you'll be all right. which I literally screamed, how do you know that? Yes. To which he's obviously like, I can't give you any more emotional help. He was like in his 50s. And then he said, well, the thing is, you know, lots of people are in the same boat. And I was like, and then I said, very pithy.

Yeah, but the boat is the Titanic. Very good stuff for me. And so I know it's so unhelpful for someone to say like, it is going to be okay. And you are going to get out of here. And I know it sounds like flippancy and nonsense. But it is it. We are screaming it because we know how it feels. We are just ahead of you in the swamp.

Yeah. Only just, I've still got a swamp water on me. Oh God. We're only still ring. it out. That's why this comes with so much emotion. I wanted to say that as well, Becky Ramsey tweeted does because she's got a blog called filler chapters and it's filler hyphen chapters.com and she wrote it when she was really, really, really lost after graduation and it was her means of like trying to find kind of positivity. Have a look at that and also I think in general,

finding positivity within the wasteland, within the swamp is so important. So for me it was like even when I didn't have any money at all and I didn't have any time I still found time to like see friends and go out. I'd try not to miss birthday parties and I'd basically like make sure that I still went to stuff because I didn't want to be by myself

in my room and I think if being by yourself in your room is going to help you then absolutely do but that was my thing to kind of get some positivity and try and get a swamp pal if you can get a swamp pal so someone who's going through it together and so you two can talk in the corner and steal all the food from the buffet

because you're so hungry. Oh my God, yeah, I remember that. You can be a pal-a-pal. Yeah, be palsy. You can do it. You can get out of the swamp and you will get out of the swamp. You just have to keep trying.

The moment you stop trying, then, you know, how can you expect anything to change? You just have to keep trying, give yourself a lot of love. Don't beat yourself up. And lie at parties if you need to. I went to my... Lie.

My grandma's 90th in the car on the way there. I said to my family, I was like, just so you know, everyone, I will be an architect at this party. Excellent. And then all these old people are being like, and what do you do? me just confidently telling everyone I was an architect.

Great. Lie. Lie. You can do it. We fully believe in you. And hopefully that was in some part helpful. If you have any more tips, do tweet us at Nobody PanicPod. If you have any ideas for future podcasts, email us, nobody panic podcast at gmail.com.

Also, our personal, like, vibes are like at Stevie and the SSA5. And mine's like, it's like at TeserCote. Something like that. It's like totally, yeah. It's fine. and yeah have a lovely week guys you can do it you go swam monster

you go swam monsters bye bye