Nobody Panic - How to Swallow a Pill

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

WARNING: We say to crush the pill like you’re a little dog in this episode but according to NHS guidelines this can affect the release of the medication so SPEAK TO YOUR GP FIRST.Tessa can’t swallow pills. Stevie can. Rather than give pointless advice like “push it to the back of your throat what’s wrong with you”, they delve into the psychological reason behind pill swallowing aversion and things get VERY deep and hopefully VERY helpful to anyone listening with similar issues re chalky horrible paracetamol.Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded by Ben Williams and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at Kings Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. Welcome to Nobody Panic with me, Stevie, and my good friend Tessa, sat opposite to me there. Hello. Now, we do how-toes on this podcast, and today's episode, you may have come to it thinking like, oh, yes, how to swallow the bitter pill, how to be told something and you just have to swallow. No, it's about actually swallowing pills because, Tessa, do you want to introduce people to a pill journey? Listen, this was a listener suggestion. Oh, yeah, sure it was, yeah.

I would not myself have brought it to the table, but now, that somebody else wants to know. It was also based on what you said in the How to Drink Water episode, which you can't drink, you can't swine. Did I tell the people already? 100% yes. Oh, wow. Yeah.

I can't believe I told my greatest shame. My greatest shame. It's up there with I've never had a coffee, which is my greatest shame. Oh my God, you should not be ashamed of these things. It's so embarrassing. There's something worse things that you do that you should be ashamed of. Also, I once killed a man.

Sure. But other than that, so the thing about the pills is I've never been able to do it. And it means that I never like carrieve, paracetamol or aspirin or any drugs with me. So cranes. Well, lots of people are always like, I've got a paracetamol. Yes. Or I'll have a headache or I won't be well or something and someone will say, oh, have this. And I'll be like, thank you. And then I'll be like, go on, take them. And I'll be like, I will. But alone. And then I'll, the amount of pills I have thrown into plant

pots over my life is. This is the listener's suggestion from Ethan. Hello. Hello, Ethan. He said, I'd just endorse something that Tessa mentioned in passing at the set of an episode. What about delving into the forensic, totally sciencey way into how to swallow pills properly like an actual grown-up? Like Tessa, I can't for the life of me swallow pills and it's probably something I should sort out. Ethan, from all the way from New Zealand. Good day, Ethan. You can't swallow... No, that's pretty good, I think. I think that's pretty good. Okay, I'd say it's Australian. No. I'm sorry? I won't be raised. That's fine. It probably is more New Zealand.

New Zealand. Isn't more alive? I don't know. Is this New Zealand? Who's to say? Ethan, let us know. Yeah. Okay, Ethan. Hello. And it's so nice to hear a fellow. So many people can't swallow pills. I have like multiple friends that can't swallow pill. The worst, worst, worst, worst one for me would be like a real old school paracetamol. Like dusty, chalky, covered in the bits. And someone's like, just knock it back. Put it in the back of your throat and just knock it back. And that's the thing about trying to give advice to people is that you're like, just because something is easy for you. obviously it's not easy for me.

It's like the other day my phone ran out of battery and I asked some teenagers what the train station was and they looked at me like, they were like, I was like, do you know where the train station is? They went, uh, no. That's so rudely. And then they went, have you got Google Maps? And I was like, do you think I would be asking you

a group of strangers and scary teenagers if I had Google Maps? As if I'm going to be like, oh yeah, of course, that, I'll do that. Like, obviously I'm in this pickle. So it's a similar thing of being like, just put it at the back of your throat. as if I'm going to be like, oh yeah, oh great. Oh, thanks so much. I've been putting it in my ass. Oh, it's right.

Oh, God, yeah. The ass, that's why I can't swallow it. Because it's up my asshole. Honestly, I would be more open to trying to put it up my butthole than I would. A suppository. Because that's the thing I just can't get. Okay, so they go in the back of my throat. I take the water.

Then I go to swallow it. I have a genuinely really bad gag reflex, which affects every area of my life. Everywhere that you think it affects me, it does. So the shadow has that when he brushes his teeth, he gags like a little dog. And then also when with the COVID test, up the nose is uncomfortable. But in, he would gag.

He would gag when it wasn't even, I would just look at it. He's just looking at it. He started gagging. Yeah. So if you've got a bad gag reflex, people laugh at you so much. And because other people don't have it,

you can't fathom how somebody else has it that badly. As with literally everything in the world, if it doesn't affect you, You're like, what the hell is wrong with you? Why is this a problem? Okay, so then, so the gag thing, back it goes. Then my whole throat just closes up. And then my body just starts like, we're like,

then it gets like wet and chalky in my mouth. Oh, and then you, I mean, if that's happened to me, then once a swan chalky, I'm taking out on my mouth. That's coming out. That's not going anywhere. Then I'm just, my whole body is heaving. And that's when I'm spitting a wet chalky paracetamol into a plant bot and saying, thank you so much.

I've taken that now. That was lovely. And then the shame descends. And then the shame is, and the people say, do you feel better? I say much. I feel much better now. Thank you. You've helped.

I've been sick into my mouth. Thank you. I've wretched behind this problem. My throat is chalky and sore. And then my, oh, God. It's just such, oh, God, it's such an agony for me. So my beginning of the pill thing, my grandma, I couldn't do it as a kid. And everyone was always like, what's the problem?

What's the problem? That's where these things start, isn't it? Okay, so then these are two things that have to me under the age of six and have affected my entire life. age six, someone put it, chopped it up into it, put it inside a chocolate cake and thought they could hide it for me. Okay. Obviously that didn't work. And I've never had a chocolate cake ever again in my life. But I'd not worked, it was just shards of pill in it?

They put a whole chalky baritacetamol into a piece of cake. Oh, they didn't even crush it? Yeah. Yeah, and they just gave it to me. That's right. So obviously I ate the chocolate cake and then I was like, there's a barcetamol in there. Okay. And I never touched chocolate cake ever again.

My grandma gave me, who was similarly, and also the worst thing is the amount of women in my life, specifically my auntie Christine and my grandma Sheila, who in saying, look how easy it is, you put it here and they're like,

I've taken it now. They swallowed it. And they were like, come on, what's the problem? Just do it. Come on. So then my grandma crushed it into a pint of ribina for me.

Okay. So dissolved it and was like, perfect, there you go. Gave me a price. Taste is. Gave me a pipe of ribina, threw up the ribina all over the kitchen floor, never drank ribena ever again. Yes. So when you have to, may I ask, we'll do an adult thing in a second, but when you have to take, so say like you get a course of antibiotics or you get a course of pills you have to do every day, what do you do? Okay, so the antibiotics are all right because they're in the plastic casing.

Okay, so this new advancement in the plastic casing has been great for us. And perhaps Ethan, you're nodding along at home and saying, yes. the plastic has helped no end. That is in New Zealand. Yeah, I feel like that was New Zealand. Anyway, we'll just keep checking in. We'll keep checking in with that throughout the episode. The plastic casing has helped no end.

However, I still can't just knock it back. What I have to do now is I have to move it around my mouth, pretend to that I'm chewing it. Don't actually chew it. But move it around my mouth until my body sort of calms down to the idea that now we're going to swallow something. Then I have to do a sort of like, oh, a little distraction.

and okay what am I doing right now like just gently moving my body around like you're a treadmill yeah sort of like this is this is what happens to do my whole body has to be like oh this is fine and look how casual this is she's dancing I'm doing a little dance basically at the same time pretending to swallow and then if I really am nice and calm and totally distracted and relaxed and my body's like this is just food this is normal we swallow food every day this is fine don't even think about it I can sort of trick myself into going down. It doesn't always happen, but I've got a pretty good success rate with it, but it's always a risk.

That's, look, that's like number one tip. Number one tip. You've done it. When people see me do that, everyone just looks at me and like, horror. You have to go away. I have to go away to do that. And people are like, don't, don't chew it. And then I'm saying with my eyes.

That's society's problem, not yours, Tessa. Exactly. And then with my eyes, I'm saying, I'm not chewing, but you mustn't speak to me right now because I'm doing the special dance. Yes. So don't look at me. So now I know to say, I know to say, thank you for these pills. I will be taking them in private now.

And people are like, what is wrong with you? Let's pause there a moment. Shoulders come down. Shoulders come down. No one's making, there's nothing hidden here. There's no pills here hidden anywhere. What's the most adult thing you've done this week? I feel like you should go first just to really like get yourself feeling better.

Thanks. I arrived absolutely buzzing this morning because at 8am, I had my scheduled phone call with the Apple store. My mother, Debbie, threw her phone into the river. we won't be taking questions on that no further questions she capsized herself out of a canoe and she snuck into the Henley festival to watch without a ticket

because she thought I'll paddle down in the river no crime against that I'm in the river oh my god security told her to move on yeah of course she forgot she'd made herself a throne out of a camping chair and forgot that she wasn't just like

braced into the thing and as she went to paddle away the entire thing just capsized. My dad had to go down the following day and dive down for all their belongings, of which everything was found, except the phone. Okay. So some fish has stolen it. Yeah, fish had got the phone. Well, she thought perhaps that had launched more of a thing, because she'd marked up on the bank exactly where he went in so they could find it the next day. And lo, they did. But not the phone, which is a terrible shame. So she had, then we were like, right, let's get you a new phone.

And then the Apple store obviously like, the man in the Vodafam shop was like, what's your Apple ID? Obviously, Debbie was like, what's your Apple ID? Yeah, I don't know what that is mine. And he's like, all right, well, what's your email? And then it's like, then they're just asking all these really sensible questions like, well, let's look on your MacBook. It'll be there.

My mom's like, I haven't got a MacBook. Then it's just like, oh my God, it's like trying to unlock something out of, um, what's that thing? Your head? Yeah, but inception. Inception, yeah. I'm a dream. film Inception.

So it's like going into her recess to find what this bloody thing was. This morning, I had a call with the highest level you can get to of Apple tech support. Her name was Shonda. She lived in Georgia. It was 4 a.m. for her.

And she wasn't just doing me. She obviously was doing the night shift. And she was like, I can see you. I pretended to be Debbie. And I was like, she was like, I can see it on my screen. And I was like, tell me it, Shonda. Tell me it. And she was like, ma'am, I just can.

And I was like, is it my name? She was like, is it my husband's name? I was like, is it my husband's name? Is it my daughter's name? She was like, it's nobody's name. I was like, great clue. Thank you, Shonda. Is it?

Is it an animate object? It's an inanimate object? She was like, no. I was like, is it a place? Have I named it after the village? Have I named it off the house? Have I named it? I'm like, so it's not a person, not a place.

I was like, what if you give me a clue? And she's like, ma'am, these are being recorded. I've already breached so much security protocol. I was like, Shonda! And then she was like, there's nothing we can do apart from you. It's in the river, Sean. It's on the river, Sean. Who is going to take it?

Like, it's me. Hello. Yeah, so, Shonda, it wasn't Debbie. It wasn't Debbie. To be fair. To be fair to Shonda, it wasn't Debbie. But I was like, oh my God, oh my God. And she was like, so you've invented this. It's not a place. It's not a person. It's not a thing. I was like, Shonda, show me a bone. Shonda. And then I was honestly like nearly in tears on the phone because I was like, we're never going to remember this. And we've obviously made it something that we thought at the time. Like, that's a good idea. And then eventually like, after all, I was in tears.

And then she was like, I would say, Debbie, this whole situation. feels very on brand. And then I went like into the lowest level of inception and I went too complicated. She was like, Debbie, you got it. You got it. And then Shonda was like in tears

laughing at me. Because she was like, Debbie, I was living that journey with you. Jesus Christ. And then I just told my mum on the phone and she was like, I have no recollection of making it. I was like, I'm going to tell everyone on the podcast. She was like, everyone will know.

And I was like, good. More people will know the eye cloud. So next time this happens, they can all write in. I'm not going to do an adult thing because that was too good. It had too many layers to it. And also it was for me to feel better

and now I have to return to my shame, my shame hole. It's not, it's, we, we, I feel like with shame holes when you look at them,

it's because, you know, we've named and created our own shame holes and then got in it. So like, it's not your fault that when you were growing up, you would, that two adults and people sort of like

helped you dig your shame hole. But it's, It's our own decision whether we continue to return to that whole. That's, thank you so much. You're so right because, thank you. Gosh. Gosh. If you read up about, I mean, not to bring post-traumatic stress disorder to the tables.

So early. Because someone put a parasite bottle in your chocolate cake. But a thing about an aspect of PTSD is that, and obviously this is not PTSD, but an interesting thing about it is when people are like, I don't understand how, and what thing is like a shell shot, for example, when people are like, I'm obviously not in the war. How can this be feeling so real? is because when you experience a trauma, part of you lives there forever.

Yes. And so anything that sets you out, you just return immediately. And obviously, the paracetamone is not trauma. But every time you take that pill, part of you returns every time to grandma shouting at you or the chocolate cake or the rabina or, you know, there's all this like stuff that's mixed up in it. Also, as well, what we're not, and if you're listening and you can't swallow pills, think back to your own experiences with pills. You've told me like three things.

So I'd say that does tip into like, oh, you've completely, we do this. I think humans do this with like everything. We will have like maybe an experience that could be either way. But it will create like a core memory. And I was like in the film inside out where we're like it only creates the core memory once you've had experiences after it that affirm that original thought. Yeah, okay, okay. So it's like you've gone like, oh, I can't, oh, I can't swallow pills.

Oh, she shoved it in my mouth. I don't. I can't. And then you've also had two other experiences. experience afterwards, which has gone like, yeah, you were right to be scared. Because even when it's in ibina, you've thrown up. So like, these like chalky pills, which are actually less of a, and you know, there's, you know, less aggressive in terms of the actual content of them than those plastic casing ones, because they're much more, you know, they're much more, they're much stronger than a

paracetamol, like, but still, the psychological mind over matter has meant that you've thrown it up. So it doesn't matter whether it's silly, it's not silly. Your body is taken over and you've spoken about it in the sense that your body at this point is becomes beyond your control. So you're never going to feel comfortable swallowing a pill because you're always going to, in the back of your mind, be like, well, I didn't, I didn't control the other times that it's happened, but it's just, you know, it's taken over. How can you stop this? Oh my God. Like it's such a massive thing. But I think that is like, we're talking a lot about like your trauma involving pills rather than actual tips. But that, because like,

obviously you will have Googled like how to swallow a pill. the most, and I can swallow pills, but the most infuriating advice, because it's all just like, moisten your throat. Yeah, all right. Like, you don't have a dry throat anyway. Like, you've got spit in your mouth. It's inside me. And then like, and then like, make sure you take water.

It's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, how do you think, the NHS, how do you think people are swallowing these pills? So I think the problem is, is that no, as with everything, nobody, official, like, official bodies, like, they don't understand and they can't talk about the psychological issue. Yeah. Because it's like, delve back and remember the times that you try to swallow the child. That wiki-how shouldn't be like, number one, voice in your throat.

Is you like, number one. Go to your mind palace. Go to your mind palace and unpack your deep trauma about these pills. Because the thought of having, even like doing this episode was made me quite tense. And like the thought of, if there was like a pill on the table now and you were like swine that, I would be so anxious to do it. Yeah, and I'd be a dickhead. But you would, that's the thing, you wouldn't be at all.

I would be so actually doing it in front of you. And I would be so panicked. And it would honestly feel like luck of the draw about whether that went down or not. Yes. And so I think that's a big part of it. It needs to be for me being like, this is a calm thing. I'm going to swallow this pill now. I'm in control of that.

My body is not just doing things. Like I can, I'm in control. And you also have started doing that, which is why that first thing you said is kind of basically the ultimate tip, which is like the way that you just, because there's going to be, it's like with them, I mean it's not, but it is also sort of like when people wrote in saying they were so frightened of needles, they were afraid of taking the vaccine, but they wanted the COVID vaccination. And being like, there's not really a way that you can be like,

just don't be frightened because it's just a little prick in it lasts like a second. And like it's like everyone knows that. Like the logic is the logic has transcended logic. Like you've created your own internal logic about swallowing pills. that it doesn't matter that obviously you eat larger chunks of food very easily. With the pills in the ribina, because I was waiting for you to say,

so my dog, I'm just, and I know it's like, let's not compare you to a dog, but also like a baby or like, basically a pre-pill swallowing entity that has not had any chance for trauma, like, because it hasn't swallowed it.

They have to give them chewable tab. because dogs obviously are like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, why would you do that? Yeah, yeah. Because it's totally mad. Like, it doesn't taste nice. They don't understand why they're having to take it. Just like, I suppose, when you're young, and you're like,

but I don't want to do that. There must be many other ways I can get this medicine into my body. Why don't I have to take this to horrible? Why can't I have that lovely sip of cowpole? Yeah, or like, you know, there's like chewable vitamins, but people don't talk about swallowing pills being hard. So no one's created, like, a chewable version of all these, like, simple medicine. Why is it not chewable paracetamol?

There has to be... It tastes delicious. I bet it should be... All just like, at best, fine. No, delicious. Remember when CalPol was so nice. I mean, CalPol is still nice. We just don't take it anymore.

No, no, it's actually not. Is it not? I tried some the other day. Right. It's not as good as it used to be. Is it not? Or if we... If our taste buds...

No, it's the sugar content. I looked it up. Oh, that's rubbish. What a shame. It was absolutely knockout, lads. That is... Yeah. Well, look, that used to be really good.

But like why doesn't, yeah, why isn't there a chewable paracetamol out there? And possibly people, maybe you're sat in a lab right now thinking, what shall I invent next? Please, please. Or possibly, yeah, cancer first and then me next. Yeah. And then, but maybe also they are out there. Yeah. And hopefully people are going to write in and be like, have you tried these guys?

Yes. If you're listening to being like, there is chewable paracetia, I just, I just don't think I've ever. I've never come across them. But what we do with, but what you do with, like, children and, and dogs and people, things that have not experienced the horror of getting a pill. I've never had a pill stuck in my throat. That is like 100% why I can swallow pills.

I didn't eat sweet corn for 15 years because I once vomited sweet corn. Like that is, you know, so it's because, so what we do is we, you crush it with two spoons and put it in something like peanut butter, which has got such a strong flavor

that it cancels out the flavor of the paracetamol. And also other things, Nutella, was a really good one. But the crucial thing is, you can't just put a whole pill in something and then expect someone not to go, oh, what the fucking is that?

She did, it was, well, she didn't actually stir it very well, but it was just plopped at the bottom. Yeah, that's, yeah. And, like, sort of dissolving of its own. If she stirred it, like, it would have just been, like, somewhere else,

and then you would have had to swallow it. It just completely tasted. It was just liquid. The ribina, yeah, definitely. That'll just be rank. That's like, you know, when you have to swallow kind of stuff, if you've got cystitis,

or you've got all those, what's the rehydration sachets. I actually, okay, there we go, here's my one.

I used to have terrible, terrible societal societies when I was younger, not for the fun reason, just for the,

like, I just had it but like all the time. And it was so, it was so, and it was constant for like, I would say three years.

But I wasn't, I wasn't six, I was like 25. Like, and since then I throw up when I have, so there's like a very salty taste

to those sachets. When I was hungry, over and someone gave me like a rehydration session. I'd ever try that before. Started it. It was like it reminded me of the societal things and I threw everywhere. You returned to the source of the trauma.

Always. And it just and it was just too. My body was just overwhelmed by how disgusting it was. And it's actually fine. Like my partner drinks them all the time. Like he's, but he can't swallow the pills, but I can't sell the pills and I can't drink, drink those. So everyone's got their own thing.

But yeah, mixing it into a drink, I can understand the logic behind what she did. But obviously that was just going to make also a lovely drink, disgusting. Whereas if you, if you crush it and put it in very viscous stuff that you need to sort of like chew but also swallow. Okay, so peanut butter. Peanut butter, Nutella. They're the two that I've used. There must be other stuff. Oh my God, that beautiful Biscoff spread. Okay. That's gluten-free. Okay. Oh, no, it's got gluten in it. So you go out of it. It's full biscuit. Yeah. So not that, but anyone is it. It's a crushed biscuit there. But yes, hiding the pill in like,

some bread or some stuff is what they used to do with like animals and that and the my dog would just spit it out yeah I'd be like well obviously because you're not an idiot get the bread down spit that out you can't yeah it's very easy to separate okay somebody did give me a when I wasn't very well gave me a smoothie a little while ago and then sometime about an hour later revealed there had been a so people just drugging you left right and people constantly trying to trip me into it yeah and then I was like that was extremely high risk because I love a smoothie and if you you had caused smoothies to be a trauma force for me that I'd been very cross.

But I suppose because it was so thick and so many flay... You're waiting for the bits of anyway. Yeah, there were a bit... Anyway, so I think that was a big, a great choice. So that may be that, you know, and so what you're saying about, the Mattela is really on brand. On brand. The next stage maybe of the smoothie journey is for you to make...

It's maybe to, for you to make one, knowing, you knowing that it's in there. Okay. With loads of bits in it. Okay. And you're trying, because... that will be, that's actually, that's the hard bit because it's actually your brain freaking out, thinking about what's in there. But if you've crushed, it doesn't have to be a pill. Sorry, it doesn't have to be the whole pill. Like crush it. Like, I guess the ribina,

which I'm guessing what they did with the smoothie or did, they just put a full pill in there. No, crushed it up. Okay, I was going to say, like, that actually would be mad. And yeah, yeah, crushed up because then you're not waiting for the bits because there's no bits. And you can see as well, you can crush it into as finer powder as you possibly can. Maybe I'll snort it. Like cocaine. Yeah. What if I, genuinely, I would rather snort about a Zeta roll. I think you're on. I once snorted pro plus and my eye nearly fell out.

I don't know. Hang on, why? I don't know. I was young. But like, sorry, not why did you do it? That didn't even cross my mind. Sure. Why did your eye nearly fall out?

It went, you know, when you accidentally swallow, like, no, not swallow, when you, water goes up your nose, and you're like, oh, oh, oh, and your eye really hurt. It was like that, but with like one eye corresponding to the nostril that I'd snorted it up. So it was like, it felt too much up the nose for that. It was too much, yeah. It was too much up the nose. Also, I think, also I didn't really crush it probably, I think a bit got stuck

my sinuses. The whole thing was a bit of a night. Okay. So that's a pause on that idea. That's why I don't snort anything. Yeah, got it, got it, got it, because I returned to that. The source of the trauma. It's actually protected me from the, obviously, the heavy coke years I would have enjoyed. But yeah, the, yes, I'd look that up, I would err on the side of crushing it and putting it into a lovely smoothie and making, and actively making the experience, like, you're in control of all of it. because I think it feels like a big part of it is that people have just been drugging.

Yeah. And then going, ha ha, ha, you've drank it. Not saying, ha, ha. But, like, the smoothie person sounds like they were genuinely, like, taking care of you, but, like, you know, in your past years, going, like,

I bet you were able to tell us something in that ribbina and being like, obviously, or being like, you know, there's a huge pillar of the junk going. It was definitely done with a huge element of, like, this'll get her, like this'll, and she won't even know. And then me being like, of course I knew. It felt very, very dreadful. The, the sugar-coated ones,

are a little better. It's still not great, but at least that initial panic of like the chalky taste is coming isn't there. It's sugary. And so I've got a little bit longer in my mouth to try and relax into it. But as I'm describing it now, I'm like, oh my God, of course I can't do this. Like, there's so much panic involved here. And me being like, the sugar is a bit better because I have slightly longer before the horror hits. Because the joy of me is like true is such horror. So, and just, like, my whole, so much in my house is just like wet, chalky bills, just like hidden, you know, and me be like, yeah, thank you, I did it.

In your own house. In my own house. Who you're hiding it from. Yourself. For some people, someone giving it to me and be like, yeah, I took it. Okay, yeah, the plastic, the sugar coating. The crushing and you doing it and you going two tablespoons. I do it.

It's so fine, making a massive smoothie. And, but it's stirring it so well. You've got your big bits of banana in there, maybe some dates, maybe some stuff that's got to. Because you're not going to, the actual powder, you'll see it on the spin, you will not be able to, it will not have any texture going in. But it's just psychologically you knowing that it's in there and that you're doing this for yourself. And you're doing it to be like, another crucial thing, to be curious about it, to be like, oh, let's see. Let's see. Because you now know, and do pretty much the same smoothie that the other person did for you.

because you know that you can because I think the problem is that it feels like you've maybe never had a nice experience swallowing those chalky pills. So then it just reinforces that it's wrong so you've got to start reinforcing your brain the other way and showing your brain very, very rudimentarily that it's actually okay

because look, you did it. You did do it with a smithy. You didn't do it with the ribina, obviously, or the chocolate cake or any of the other things, or just trying it. But you did do it with the smoothie. And so you can do that again. Like there's no reason.

And your brain basically sometimes gets stuck in a short circuit and you need to teach it actively that it's safe because you need to tell your brain that it's safe. Because your brain is basically just screaming and you need to look after your brain and go like, show it the way. Remember the last time you drank the smoothie. Do the powder really, really fine.

Drink the smoothie but like and remember, like constantly keep reminding your brain of that last time you drank the smoothie as you're drinking the current smoothie. That feels like a... Yeah. I'm just saying this because I've had very, very intense, what's the word,

a psychologist, do you remember when my shoulder was about it? I had to basically teach my brain that there was no pain, because my brain was just telling me that I was in pain, and I was in agony, and I had to teach my brain that I wasn't. And it was, I felt like a wizard. I felt like Dumbledore when it released, I was like, I have done this. So it's just the same thing.

I feel like we're all, and like, once you see the pattern, you can see yourself doing it with like everything. Like, so many people do it for everything. This is massive. even talking about it now, I'm like, honestly, when we sat down to this episode, I was like, we're going to talk about cutting them up smaller, we're going to talk about the plastic covers, we're going to talk about trying to get them right to the back of your throat and knocking it back. We're going to talk, Stevie's going to say all of these things.

And, but actually, and I felt so panicked, even thinking about them, my mouth goes completely dry. Like, I was like, oh my God, there's a pill coming. Yeah, your body's such reacting as if a pill's coming. But really, it's like, oh my God, there's so much, the tips and the physical stuff is, is so secondary. To the 99% work, which is like, this is okay and you can do this and this is safe and drawling all of it. So your brain that's the issue. It's not the pill and the placement of the thing. It's your brain going like, go on high alert.

Like you've got to just hold your brain's hand a bit. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Hold my brain's hand through what is, and I'm not diminishing my fellow gag reflexes out there. When we're like, yeah, there's also a physical aspect, of course. but listen, we managed to eat meals every single day. Well, a smoothie gets rid of the gag reflex problem, doesn't it?

Yeah, exactly. When trying to shove something down there is going to just exacerbate the gag reflexes. Yeah, anyone who thinks, I wonder if she can't do that other thing. She can't. She can't. She simply won't. That's fine. And that's fine because no one wants you to throw up during that side set.

Oh, Lord. Anyone feeling their best is I just heave onto it. Oh, dear. Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much. I feel quite excited. Oh, my God. But genuinely, that's my feeling.

I'm like, I wonder if I, honestly, when you are, if you got one out of your bag now and I gave, I would, I would give it a go with enthusiasm and curiosity. And, like, I would give it a go as an experiment as opposed to, like, this is a total panic for me. Yeah, in a smoothie. No, I would honestly try and get it down just to see what would happen. I'd say, like, stop. Yeah, you're right. Keep yourself another bad experience. Don't give yourself another bad experience.

God, damn it. You've already done it with a smoothie. So you've actually done it already. Do the one that you've already done. And then you can start to experiment if you want to do. But also, why would you need to? Because there's no need to. You can always put anything.

Yeah, why would I suddenly just be like, oh, that's done it now. I'll get that down. I'll get that down. There's like something being in like a casing. Just like a sort of chalky pill on its own. Just throw it out you. Ethan, I hope that helped too.

Email us, nobody panic podcast at gmail.com. If this episode helped and you swallowed a pill. I honestly want to know. Tweet us. Yeah, please. If anybody feels the same way as I do or if anybody has any fantastic tips they've done, things that work, any food stuff,

so you're like, that's a total, that masks it completely. The Nutella, the peanut butter, the biscuits. Into a grape. Up the nose. Up the nose things. I mean, do tell me if the note,

maybe I'll go and try it. I think Google it before you try it. In the spirit of scientific research, TV, I simply won't. I'm telling you, it really hurt my eye. I had to go to an and eat. I've got a bit stuck. Don't just be very careful with that.

That's you for not doing your crushing work well. Sure, I was very drunk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also I'd say, as listeners, don't do it. No, don't do it. We can't condone it. Look, enjoy your pill swallowing. Let us know how it goes.

Also, swallowing is a terrible word. Pill taking. There we go. Swallowing makes it sound like, like, like it's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes me tense about it, and I can swallow like multiple,

at the same time. So let's all take our pills in nice, in nice, helpful ways. Get rid of this goddamn shame. Get rid of the shame. Get rid of the shame. Kick the shame out. Get rid of that shame. Release it. Never put a prawn in a child's mouth. Never put a child's mouth. Yeah, and let go of that shame, everyone. Thank you ever so much for writing in. It's really nice to hear from somebody else who can't do it because, as we've established, it feels very secret and we don't really talk about it. So love you to hear from you, Ethan. Hope it helped. Do let us know if it did. everybody and um yeah thank you for so much everyone join us next time if you got any more

suggestions let us know and we'll tackle each and every one