Nobody Panic - How to talk to people

Episode Date: October 2, 2018

Stevie and Tessa explore how to be better at making conversation, talking to strangers, and learning to listen. (Tessa gets most of her information from an FBI handbook on hostage negotiations).Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. to nub, you panic. Wonderful, I used to reiterate it. Oh, that's really nice, thank you. It's really great to talk to you. Because this is, okay, Tess just, like, rubbed her foot on my leg. I didn't mean to.

No, I know, but I wish you did. Okay. These episodes about how to talk to people. We get quite a lot of messages. We get so many messages. But, like, we're going to date it with messages. Two people have said, I'd quite like to know how to talk to people

because I'm quite shy and I don't know how to do it. Not even in a networking capacity, you're at a party. Someone's an ex-dee. You don't know them. Or you know them. The worst is. it's when you know them a bit,

but not enough to have anything to say to them. I went through a period of time when I would just, in those situations, I would immediately think of, like, the most embarrassing thing I'd just done most recently and just say it. It's like, oh, I was walking over there, and I walked into a door.

Oh, my God. And then I wondered why everyone thought I was incompetent. I went through that phase. Yeah. Just saying something so weird. Just setting your bar out as, like, setting out your wagon being like, I'm weird, guys.

Yeah. I'm on like a low level, so you don't even have to feel intimidated. You can just join in. Have you ever walk to feel, into a door? Like that sort of stuff. It's literally running into the room shouting, being like, no one needs to be threatened or intimidated by me.

Yes, certainly. I'm so weird. Because that was preferable to a silence for me. I'd argue try not doing that because then people will think years later that you still can't go into a room without falling over because you've said so many times that you've fallen over at every different occasion. I definitely went through that phase, just saying something so weird about yourself.

I also went through a phase of saying animal facts. Yep. And that weirdly, as you get older, people start to get on board with, like, slightly offbeat kind of conversation topics because everyone's so bored of the conversations that normally happen at parties, like, Sue, how do you know so-and-so?

Great, nice jacket. Oh, the DJ's great. So now if you're like, and this is a weird opener, but like, did you know, obviously you have to do it when you know the person? You can always be like, hi, I'm Stevie, did you know that ants can't sleep?

Basically, did it once where I told my fact about ants not being able to sleep and frogs not being able to throw up. And then everyone joined in, had their own animal fact, and then we were just having this really great time about everyone was just like sharing. And also I learned a lot. That's fantastic. It's always my aim in conversations. You've absolutely smashed it there. Yeah, but it doesn't work in, it's not foolproof. I will tell you that. No, it's absolutely not. You can't, you've got to judge, you've got to judge

the room. Yes, you absolutely have to. What's your adult thing? What's your adult thing? My adult thing is I have to hibernate my tortoise for the first time. This is something that I didn't think would ever have to happen because I've not really thought that far ahead. We didn't hibernate her last year because she was a rescue and the vet was like, just, just leave it. And then you do it the next year when you kind of get to know her and she's sort of settled. So we're like, cool, we just hibernate. I guess we're just put her in a box and she goes to sleep. No, there's lots of, you have to like bring her temperature down.

We're like, way her every day. If she loses weight, if she, like, also the fact that I know for, she's going to hibernate, we think, they normally hibernate for like two months. Oh, wow. So it's not as long actually as you think. It's normally like the whole winter. This is just, it's just a few months. But I know for a fact that every day I'm going to think she's dead.

Every day. And there's no way of telling she's not dead. I can't take a tortoises pulse. My God. Yes. We've taken her into the vets to have a big, like, MOT. Sure, she used to be pregnant and she's not because she's reabsorbed her eggs. Sure.

What? That's the thing that tortillas can do. If they don't fancy giving birth, they reabsorb their own eggs. Who knocked her up? Oh, they think themselves pregnant. So if they've seen a male, they will develop eggs. You're joking me? I'm not joking.

They won't be fertilized, but they will be eggs. if they've had sex in their fertilised eggs. It's terrifying, but also fascinating, but also I can't be bothered with it because it's so weird. So she's fine, but we now in the next few weeks have to start, like, bringing her temperature down. And also, you know, like, I've got central heating in my flat,

and my flat's small. There's not an area that's, like, the dusty cold area. So we're buying a drinks fridge, which is the vet has said, you can control the temperature and putting her in a little box in a little drinks fridge in the corner. Holy shit.

So it's quite adult because I've never been fully responsible of whether a creature lives or dies quite so clearly as I am over the next month. So pray for me, is what I'm saying. Yes, hashtag. Hashtag pray for Dr. Parker. Pray for Dr. Parker. Oh my goodness. I wish her all the best.

Thank you. She doesn't even know what's happening. That is the name of the tortoise, not the name of the vet, everyone. Yes, I don't just, yeah. Her name is Dr. Allison Parker is fine. And I wish her all the best in hibernation. I can't possibly top that. Mine is that I couldn't finish take away and put it in the freezer some time ago and now I'm

eating it today. That is good. That is just as worthy. Because I thought what I'm going to do with this when I couldn't finish it? And I was like because I was like to leave the house for a while. I was going to say also that's a bit of a humble braggers were like I just couldn't finish my takeaway.

Oh guys I'm like my appetite is like really small. I just have a little bit of a leave and then that's me done. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. I'd like to clarify I ordered three meals because I could not choose which one. And so there was some leftovers. No, I ordered everything.

Even if you didn't, that's fun. like shame me. No, I'm like reverse shaming. I know. I hadn't even crossed my mind that what I was saying, but I see it now. I had two mouthfuls and had to freeze it because I just couldn't possibly. I was like, hmm, yum, too ma'am. But also freezing stuff is a real like a

like, oh my God, I'm literally freezing in a way. Our adult things are very similar. In a way. I won't be eating mine. No. You know, that is adult. It's anything to do with forethought or freezing something and having a thing. And also like it's just the same as when it's when you put it in there. That's, I've just

got really overwhelmed by the concept of freezing. It's terrifying, isn't it? Yeah, it is terrifying. We'll join us next week for freezing. Is it too much? How to freeze something. Where's Alison? Oh my God, don't even.

She's going to be so fine. She's going to be so fine. All my adult things every week are going to be like, oh wait, my tortoise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I put my thermometer up, my tortoises bottom. She's fine. Or she actually has given, laid some eggs, et cetera, et cetera.

Oh, God, don't. I can't wait for all the tortoise content. So, talking. people. It is something that two or more people have written in about that people are very more than two. People about shyness and being bad at parties or you know finding they say leaving conversation thinking I didn't do well in that. Because you can be not shy fully not. I know people including myself I'm not shy but sometimes you know when you're just like oh god I'm not on form I'm not on form and you can't talk to anyone and then everything you say stupid and then everyone

you know turns away and and then and then you die because you're You've been, what's the word, isolated from the social group, and you're left on your own, you have to fight a line, like in the caveman time. Exactly right. And so it's so, so stressful. And exactly that thing of like, oh, I just said loads of weird shit. I definitely did that. I did that all the time.

You were so threatened and so, like, nervous about being rubbish that you just came out with some bullshit. And so these are some, like, top tips about... How not to come out with some bullshit. How to keep that bullshit on lockdown people, and how to meet new people and how to make a good impression. And so some of this comes from... from, please wait there while I find Tessa's brain.

It comes out of my brain, guys. These are genuinely, and this is from a guy's book about, you know, talking to people, but a lot of this is hostage negotiation techniques from the FBI. Oh my God, what's the book, though? We should probably go to some credit if he did a great book.

A guy called an FBI behavior expert called Robin Dreak has a book called It's Not All About Me. Great. The top ten techniques were building quick rapport with anybody. Especially if you're an FBI agent. Especially if you're in the FBI, you need to walk someone better from. I love it. was called,

it's not all about me. It's not about me. I love that. But go on. I love that. Because empathy is being able to relate to something in somebody else and rapport is being able to show that person that you have that. Oh, that's interesting.

I think it's an interesting idea. And so basically all the things about making a good impression and being good in a conversation are almost 90% of it is about listening. The other 10% is about smiling and nodding your head and saying, Mm. Having good questions. And having good questions. I remember the realization suddenly that a conversation didn't have to be me saying like Oscar Wilde and

Witticism. Absolutely right. It was me literally asking the most simple question. Like, okay, try and avoid what have you been up to, obviously. But like, if you just know one thing about that person, just ask about that one thing. Yeah. Or like, what is it that you're doing at the moment? If you're not sure what their job was or you've like forgotten. And then they'll literally go like, oh yeah, well, I'm working. And this thing, I'm working there. And you know, I know, like, everyone goes, don't say the what do you do question because it is scary and it's not nice but it also it does open up a conversation and it's

fine if that's the only question that you've got in your arsenal. Say it. Literally just say it. Yeah and then be really interested in their job and then be really interested in their thing because if you people think you like exactly that how can I get some good witty Oscar Wilde comments like how can I yeah I didn't know what to say to that

how can I say to ask another question yeah you don't have to say anything you just have to people in studies where the other person said more than less than five words but just really listened the person who was doing the talking in that conversation rated the conversation in nines and tens out of 10 and said what a great conversation I just had when they didn't have a conversation at all they just talked at somebody but in their mind they had a fantastic conversation with somebody and so that's what it is to be because the bad conversations that you have are when you say something and the other person goes yeah yeah and then they

stop you or if you ask a question the person answers it and then stops it's like do you Did you drive here today? Yeah. Was it the whole thing? And was it? Was it far? Yes, it was, yeah. Okay.

So this is the thing. Whereas being like, did you drive here today? Yeah, did you? Yeah, I love driving. I will drive at any opportunity. Do you know what I mean? Like, you just immediately pick on one thing. Yeah.

And then the moment you've got a noun, you've got a noun. You can say something. If you don't have a noun, just ask another question. The most frustrating conversations I've come away with, and also it makes people think that you're not a nice person is the people that don't ask questions. The amount of conversations I've had, I've been like, wow, I had a conversation

and that person did not ask me one question. They just talked about themselves. Like, they think that they're being some sort of great, great weight. What a great time I've had. But if you've done that on purpose, then great. If you've dictated everything and you've scored highly. But if you're like, no, I wanted to be part of this.

Yeah. It's a two-way thing. If you want to, sorry, if you want to, if you think it's something that you aren't very good at, it is 100% something that you can build up those skills and those muscles and just be good at it. You can cheat yourself, cheat your way in. Fake it till you make it.

You can fake it till you make it. Because there is literally like formula and things that you can do. Well, like Tess is going to take us through now. So the very first thing is when they say like be yourself, it's like don't be yourself. Try and be a better version of you. Sure. So no matter how you're feeling really, you want to be big smiles. And then this thing says, even try and smile slower.

Which made me laugh so much because to me a slow smile. like creepy yeah I think it's yeah that's it's about trying to find it's trying to make your smile as genuine as possible so it's not like hi hi yeah suddenly you're like it's like smile and gone it's like there's a lot going on raising the eyebrows is very important as well because if you smile without raising your eyebrows you just look weird yeah again like that yeah so practice that don't don't practice too hard otherwise you'll be you'll be in your head thinking how could I smash it did I get the good yes did I do a good smile um you just want to have like open body language and warm and be smiling don't cross your arms don't cross your arms and don't cross your arms and don't

try the number one thing this is like not trying to get any respect so it's the same thing is like when you're similar to you coming in and trying to be as weird as possible was sort of for people to think that like oh she's you know a cooke she's a cook so just don't try too hard to do anything don't try and be clever don't try and be Oscar wild don't try and drop in any names like don't don't try and say the cool thing that you've done in a study about competency versus likeability people consistently chose a lovable fool over a competent jerk oh that's interesting. Oh, a lovable star is obviously the best one because you're good at it and you're nice. Oh yeah. But then if made to choose between a competent jerk and a lovable fool, people

always chose lovable fool. In terms of so competent means like at the conversation. Competent at just sorry in life in general. So competent at somebody in a job or you know being made to work with somebody or whatever. People would always always choose somebody who's fun but not actually very good at the thing. See what you mean. So if you go in feeling like really defensive and with a chip on it should have been like well I've done nothing with my life or like I'm not as good as all these other people. You'll be way more likable than someone who's coming in being like, I'm the seer of a company.

So it's like, I'm not, I want to talk to you. Exactly. And if you're like, I've got an absolutely banging anecdote about my time in, um. Narm. Narm. Narm. I can't think about Narm and not think about that camouflage slonky suit that you've got. That, oh, it's such a specific reference.

You've got this like slinky blanket thing. And once you put a picture up and said it looked like Dumbledore's time in Narm. It's like Camifar's a wizard. outfit. Yeah, yeah, that's good. So all this FBI hostage techniques, they're, what they're saying is that when you have a conversation with somebody, so you're telling me a story about the time you went jet skiing. And in my head, I'm just thinking, I'm going to tell you an absolutely bang an anecdote about jet skiing. Yeah. And you'd be like, oh, now the sea is open for, the sea is open called. Fish. Jet skiing, fish, holidays. Now you've opened up the floor. And I'm like,

bloody out, I've got some absolutely killers come in. Here are my anecdotes. I'm just waiting for you to stop talking so I can come in with mine. Yeah. And so I'm not really. listening to you at all, I've just got another conversation going on in my head, which is my own voice. Yeah, and so... Commentating and going, oh, this is going to be good. Yeah, exactly. Being like, here comes some out of crackers. So that is in hostages and in negotiations and also conversation.

It's about letting that voice out of the other person's head. So giving them that space to fully get all of it out. Yeah. So that then when they are then listening to what you have to say, they are fully listening and they aren't just... I see. So you ask follow-up questions about their anecdotes. Exactly. And so all you have to do is these are your three techniques. Mirroring, paraphrasing and labelling. So mirroring is just repeating the last...

So do you want to just tell me anything and come to the end of your... Okay, great. So I'm going to Wagammer later, which I go to every week with my parents. You go every week with your parents? Yes. Oh, it's nice. It is nice. So all I did was say the last couple of words of your sending. Unless I just did something really awful, then you're like, oh. But like, I guess if you... I suppose it was. If it was bad, at least I'm like acknowledging it. True. Then you feel like you just, I did feel like you'd heard me.

I heard, exactly. I'm saying I've heard, I have heard you. Yes. The next one is, okay, go again. Oh, God, this is hard. I'm going on holiday on Monday and I've only bought bikini bottoms because I couldn't find any bikini tops because it's September and they don't sell them anymore in shops. No, this one instructions are, repeat what they just said, but in your own words. So I don't know how to do that. Oh, it's hard. Okay. Yeah. Oh, it's so hard to buy summer clothes in like September. Yeah.

is that? Yeah, so what you're saying is it's so hard to find. I think what I've got to say is, so what you're saying is... I'd find that quite aggressive. I feel like just, I feel like maybe in a hostage situation, that would be really useful. But like, if you're telling us, so what you're saying is, and I'm like, oh, God, it's been analyzed. So what you're saying was too much and I regret it.

No, that's fine. You're reading an FBI book. Like, that's why this has happened. I can completely see the issue here. But I mean, like, maybe taking that off and just, to just paraphrase. Okay, so what you're trying to achieve, it says here, is summarising... Not to kill any. more hostages. So in order to get as many hostages out alive as possible, it says here what you should

do is, no. So what you're trying to do is summarize what the person said to their satisfaction. So if you repeat something back and they go, exactly, then you smashed it. Okay. Well, oh, when I actually said it, my boyfriend said, that's crazy that they don't sell summer clothes in September. September, it's still warm. Like, that was a, oh, that's such a good one. They heard it and they added and they agreed. Maybe he's read this book. Yeah, right. Maybe he's our entire relationship. It was based on everything. And then give me one more. So sorry, you can repeat them if you need.

No, it's okay. Okay, so I bought a high-wasted bikini bottom because I was like, that'll be good so I can eat loads. But then when it goes up, it goes up too high at the bottom bit. So I feel like Miley Cyrus in that awful Terry Richardson shoot where she pulled her bikini bag, gave herself a front wadjee. Oh, it sounds like you're feeling very vulnerable.

Is that the response to everything? You always say it sounds like you're really. And then it says you always just say. you're supposed to label and put a name on the thing that they're feeling. Yeah, that's good. Was I good with the vulnerable? I did feel vulnerable.

I mainly feel sad and absurd. But I think that's like a general always feeling. So it would it be fair to say that you feel sad and absurd? Well, I suppose rather than doing all three of those, now you've got three options. So it'd be like, well, if it's maybe not, maybe that one wasn't the perfect one to say, so you're feeling like this.

And maybe the wording, so I guess you're feeling this, is a bit therapist-like, but you could transpose it to normal conversation and go like, oh, God, that makes you feel so absurd. Yeah, that, oh, God, it makes you feel so vulnerable. Yes. Oh, one thing that I found helpful was, like,

a load of my guy friends were trying to cheer up one of our mutual friends who'd been through, like, a breakup a couple of months ago. And one of my friends was so insightful and was like, I think girls do this naturally, but guys don't do this naturally, which is when someone says quite like her, I think that happened to them

that they're feeling a little bit down about, or it's just like anything really I think it works with you can then say like oh god yeah I had I had like a similar thing with and then say the thing that you felt because then that's like two people making each other feel better and that's also a very easy response so if I said yeah I bought a high-wasted bikini that when I pull it up and it's vulgar then you could be like oh god I once bought a bikini that I didn't realize was a thong one and then I had to sit down for that's also me again yeah but like I had to spend an entire holiday I sat down because I couldn't get up because it was frankly lewd. Yeah. So that you could maybe have a... Basically, what it is is a game for yourself to get to common ground as fast as you can. Yeah, right, okay.

So once we're both... Yeah, right. Yeah. It's exactly that about the bikini thing. Yeah. But I can't open with... I bet you've got a vulnerable... Vulnerable bikini story.

No, of course. I bet you've bought a phone once. Couldn't stand up. And you couldn't stand up. I can't open with that. No. Once we can, like, get that. Once we're trading bikini stories.

Like, no. we're cooking with gas, you know, and so you want to try and get, but you've got to take, though, you can't come in cold with, you know. Of course you can't, no, no, but what I mean was that maybe a fourth option. A fourth option. Rather than, like, so if you're like saying, labeling the feeling is vulnerable, maybe that will sound weird. Oh, but I do have a bikini story.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paws are fine too, right? Like, I've got this friend who literally, Ben Tage, he's amazing, and he really considers the things that he's saying. Like, so when you're having a conversation with him, you really feel like you're having a proper, you feel like you're having what a conversation should be and that everyone else has really sold you short.

Like, he's going to give you a response that he genuinely believes is the best thing to say and he's really thought about it. And he will pause. And when I first met him, I genuinely just thought he was like thinking of something else and had forgotten that we were having a conversation. Right, yeah.

Because I talk so quickly and have no pauses because if there's a pause, I'll just say I walked into a door in 2009. Yes. So he doesn't do that. He's very, like, sparing with his words. The moment I was like, oh, he's not like,

bored by me or is thinking of something else he's just like really thinking about stuff it's a wonderful thing to do to talk to him like I genuinely love talking to him because there's no pressure you I start talking slower so I think people panicking conversations because they feel like well the moment they stop speaking is now the floor is open to me yeah and it's not you can just have a think and no one goes well she has no idea how to respond to my thing like no one's thinking that everyone's just kind of well now it's breathed no now now we're having a think and we're going to come back in again when we're ready. It's so right, we're so obsessed with this like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

I've been watching a bit of a QI. Oh, I've never heard of it. It's sort of a sort of panel game show, if you will. And some people, like, Lee Mack are just like, what you imagine would be a nightmare in a conversation because they're just like gag, gag, gag, gag, gag machine, you're like, how can I keep up with this? And that's not a conversation, it's a performance. It's a performance.

And then, and you think, like, that's what you have to be on these shows. but if you watch Alan Davies on it So ask me a QI question When were hats made? When were hats made? Sorry, you weren't being Alan Davies He was just genuinely upset the question No, no, no, I was being like,

Don't ask me that question! No, no, no, no, that's what I was being was Alan Davies, so rather than me trying to think of, so if I was Lee, you can be Leemak or Alan Davies, but so in then Leamack would think of a pun based on the word hat And made.

Or like he would say, about this morning, like he would make a joke, you know, I can't even think I can't think of anything. His brain is thinking a million miles an hour and no one else. If you've got a brain like that, then congratulations. But if you haven't, don't try and... Also, I think you have to kind of actually, people would wish that they'd be like that. I think he will have to rein that in in conversations.

Yeah, I bet he thinks like, I told a bloody story about the door again, you know. I bet he's thinking, oh. I've intimidated everyone. I intimidated everyone at the party. No one's having conversation. I just did the me at the buffet again. You know, he's thinking, I wish I could have a conversation. It's just calm that shit down.

Rose-Alen Davis is very slow. and he always repeats the thing back. That's interesting, yes. And makes a joke about that and finds and breathes his way into it. He's a lot of nodding. So much nodding. And he's listening and he's, and so he's giving that space. And but he's also coming out with solid gold bangers,

but he's getting there much slower. And so don't panic and think that you always have to be, you know, the one man. The quickest sausage on the dish. Exactly right. That's my new favorite thing is coming up with those. So United Disaster. like, I truly believe is one of life's great bonding sessions. The ultimate greatest bonding.

Yeah, absolutely. In fact, at this, I've been to a party recently where there was a united dislike of an individual. And I've never seen a group rally harder or faster. Like, and suddenly total strangers were bonded and we could, and now we were a go. But somebody did have to open that gentle floodgate of like, I think this person's a dickhead. Yeah. You cannot, because I've also been to a wedding once where I was attempting to make conversation

with a stranger, we were both watching a man playing guitar. I said to the strange boy beside me, do you want to guess, Stevie? No. Okay. I actually bit this back because I had already listened to this podcast. Did you say something like, oh, getting guitars out. It was a lame thing to do. Yep.

And then it was his dad. So don't just come out bold. I did that with, she went to party once. Even before I knew her particularly well, and she just turned to me, I said, hey. Who? Hey, what a good, what a cracker from me. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hello, May Martin front of the world? No, she was definitely way cooler than me and I didn't know very well. And I said, hey, and she turned to me and said, who do you hate most at this party?

Yes, it's perfect. It's great, especially if you're a bit drunk. If you're a bit drunk, then openers can be anything. You can start a conversation, the weirder, the better. Yes, I think so too. Yes, I sat down at a wedding the other day and the guy beside me turned to me and said, how do you feel about time being a linear concept? Oh, that's, I would say that's arrogant. That's arrogant. Certainly. And I was actually quite drunk and it made me be like, like take a big dump of water and be like, okay, I'm coming in. Okay. I think I'd just be like, yeah, my answer is sure. It was bold. He was bold and I did rise to it. Great. I think I just said absolute nonsense for an hour until it was pudding time. Yes. And then he left. I don't think it was a proper conversation. I think it was a TED talk.

Yeah, of course. Which I had absolutely no idea. I was saying the best sort of TED talk. I think I've got a lot of opinions about time. Here they come. And everything I know about clocks and time. Here they come, baby. You shouldn't have. me but I think if you can don't come out with those sober and with a total stranger you've got to try and ease in but then everyone inside them has got their weird cool party fat like you and the

ants or like you know the secret unexplained mysteries that you've recently listened to or like even if you just say like hey what podcasts are you into or like have you watched anything good recently or I will often read anything like her like rather than be like her so if you watched any TV shows because then you might feel like both of you

in this conversation now know you've just asked the other person if they're watching any TV shows recently. The other day I was doing something and I was a friend that I don't really, really know. And she was talking to me and I was like, I'm so sorry. I've just finished watching The Night of and I'm finding it difficult to conduct conversations because I'm so tense about what will happen in the finale. And she was like, oh my God, I watched it as well. Great.

So being fully honest and just like talking to another person like they're already your friend. Yes. I think it's a really useful acknowledging how awkward parties can sometimes be. I have great conversations about people with people, about like, oh God, the bit with the small talk and the parties, and you're supposed to be like, hey, what do you do? Hey, I don't know, where do you live? Like, it's such a weird thing.

And then you just talk about that. And then instantly, you've cut through all of the kind of like, hello, and now you're talking about, you've gone meta. But you do have to feel very passionately to come in with the night of or, you know, it has to be very. Yes, you're right. You can't just, it can't be the first thing you ever say. You can't always go to this point.

Like, what should I tell someone about now? It's like, if it's not in there, don't try it. Yeah. I had been to went to a hendu where I was sort of sat quietly thinking and I turned to this nice girl next to me who I'd not met or even spoken to when I said I'm so sorry I'm going to have to tell you what I did last night and when I fell off a barrel at when we went to Moulin Rouge and I fell off a barrel by at 620.

It's a fell off a barrel at least it was 10.30. Anyway then I got an Uber and went to a boy's house and told him I loved him and so and I kept saying I've just watched the Moulon Rouge she dies of consumption without telling him that he loves her so anything could happen to our And he was going, please, please don't say. Yeah. He was like, I'm amazed. He was like, please.

I love that I've got the snapshot of what happened that night. But like now I've heard the whole night. Like that just. Yeah. And so he was going, don't say it. Please don't say it. Don't say it. Don't say it.

And I don't want this to be the time. This shouldn't be it. Look at you. You can't even stand up. You fall off a barrel clearly. And I said it. And then he, then we like went to bed. And then I got up so early in the morning and went to this hendoo.

So there was, we hadn't talked about it. And we'd only been like, I only had seen this. boy a few times. And so in my mind, I was like, I fucked it. I've totally fucked it. Yeah. He's going to think I'm crazy. And I just turned to this girl and was like, I'm so sorry. Can I tell you all about this? And she was Australian. She was an Airstudez. And as I was going, no. No, no. You didn't. No. You didn't. No. You didn't. No. You didn't. You didn't. You didn't. That is, there is good. And we bonded about it. And we bonded about it. And we can't just be like, let me tell you a weird thing I did in 2009. You can't come in. It has to be something that is playing on your mind. You have to get it out. The actual reason that you're not socializing properly is because of this thing. That like, wide-eyed gossip of someone like, can I tell you this? I'm like, you can tell me anything and I'm your best friend.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Give me, give me. Or if you need, like, advice on anything, you're like, I know, like, we've only just met but what would you do in this situation? Can I ask you something? Is my like, my favorite. I'm like, whoever you are.

Yeah, and the world, but it better be like. But it better be like. Yeah. And now we're all, like, a gathered in good convoy. Yeah. And to get to those points, you just have to like, everyone's got something in them there.

So you just got to like ease it. Ease it out. Tease it out, baby. Teat it out, baby. So I hope some of these have been very helpful. I, for one, can't wait to talk to a stranger. Me too. I'm going to go now and just go to Wagamamas, sit, not with my family, just sit with some strangers and talk to them. Are you going to Wagamama? Is that where you're really going? Yes, I am. I literally going to Wagamamas.

So you're literally going to Wagamamas? I absolutely am. I'm just practicing. Oh, that was good. I didn't even notice. Yeah, right? I just felt like you were too interested in Wagammer. That's the thing. I thought you were going to laugh and be like, stop saying the last bit of my sentence. No, it just totally goes over your head, right? You just felt natural. So it just felt natural.

You just have to be, no, see, that sounds like, cues, key to say, you feel natural and vulnerable. So are you feeling sad? Oh my God, no. I think the follow up is like, that's so nice. Do you go to Wagamma?

Yeah, it has to be a question. Do your parents love Wagamamas? Do you, have you always loved the Wagamama? What's your favorite dish from Wagamama? Oh, the sort of bowl with the noodles in it. I can't remember what it's called. How do you feel about their communal seating? Oh, there we go.

I'm trying to find, like, uh, that is the worst part. That is the absolute worst part. And that's the only part of Waka Mamma is I don't enjoy is that you're like, cool, let's go for dinner. Oh no, now I'm going for dinner with this couple who are on a first date. You're so right. You're so right.

I am right. It's like you feel like you're intruding on their date. I'm trying to get you to say exactly. Exactly. See, look, it follows a similar format. It's difficult because we've talked for a long time together. But if I didn't know you, I think you're touching my leg again. I love it on purpose, yeah.

I actually wasn't, no. Anyway, I hope some of these have been helpful. Good luck in your next conversation. Absolutely top tips. I genuinely feel really like that would help me in a social situation. And I can't believe the extent to which if you do just listen, no one will think, this fool is saying nothing. I just repeat in my last words.

It feels like a conversation. It really does. You have to ask them questions. You have to, it's not all, you're not the one shouldering the whole conversation. It's not on you. It's not on you. It's only 10% just keep, if you eat. If you ease out the right stuff, it's just like an episode of Parkinson.

Oh my God, do you go. Yes, what you're really old? An episode of What's another quiz show? Like, Parkinson isn't a quiz show. No, I mean, like an interview show, sorry. I can't think of any. Jonathan Ross. Graham Norton, that's the one.

That's the one. But he actually does a lot of the legwork. He's so good, isn't he? He's absolutely wonderful. He's a wonderful. Let's talk about that more. No. Bye.

Way to shut it down. So tweet us if you want a chap. At Stevie M. The S's a 5. At Nobody Panic Pod. and I'm at Testa Coates email us for any if you have any ideas for future podcasts

and we are working through them Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com Woohoo baby good luck in those conversations baby and please if you have tried any of this out or if you've got any top tips

about conversationism let us know I'd love that We love it Have a good chatty week Bye