Nobody Panic - How to Understand ADHD - Part 2

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

There's more! In the second part of this two-part episode, Stevie and Tessa discuss changes, improvements, tips, tricks, medication and the greater understanding of herself Tessa has developed since her diagnosis. Obviously every journey is personal, but hopefully there's some thoughts and ideas here if you think ADHD might be affecting you, or you're living with/working with/in love with someone who has it.Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Aniya Das for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. back to the ADHD special. The ADHD Bonanza.

The ADHD Bonanza. Last time was about understanding it. This one is about understanding it more and living with it. Yeah. It's for if you or your partner or your work colleague or your friend or whoever has to live, that someone is in your immediate sphere and being like, here are some things that maybe will be helpful. Tips to help if you know somebody with ADHD.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd be interested in that. Yeah. I say opposite you. Obviously, I'm on the journey, and some of these won't be helpful for anybody, but they're just things I've personally found so far. As I begin my quest, what would you...

Well, I mean, that's way too big a question. I was going to say what you find the most difficult part of me is. Oh, good Lord, mate. Oh, my God. No, because I thought about it a lot after we recorded that last episode, because we haven't really... I remember I found out you got diagnosed with ADHD by someone else who was like, it's great about tests a diagnosis, isn't it?

And I was like, fuck what? Oh, really? Yeah. No, but that's fine. But it was like, so I was like, God, I've never really sat down and talked about it. But because I probably am weirdly the person that you have worked with most for seven years. Yeah. Not every day, but like it's so regular and it's never stopped.

And it's never stopped. And I'm so tired. I'm so tired. We're both so tired and old. The only thing is it is it's obviously very different. for different people. So me saying a difficult, you know, writing a book wasn't easy, but like that's also very much my personality meeting how you deal with your ADHD, pre you even knowing you had ADHD. You know, I think anytime we've had difficulties,

it's because maybe you've, like, it's my personality meeting you glossing over something with a joke, me not realizing it's actually quite serious because you've made it into a funny joke. And then, and then realizing like six months later, like, I should have taken that more seriously and feeling really bad. And then you feel really bad because you feel like, you've made me feel bad and then we haven't really spoken about it. And I suppose, so that's why I mean about it's too much for me to, and you really, to say like, this is the worst thing about living with someone with ADHD because the spectrum is so massive, which is what I thought.

Because also as well, it's not just your experience isn't just ADHD. It's like ADHD plus your personality upbringing or everything about your life. You can have the exact same level of ADHD as someone else and they would be a completely different person, which I think feels like that's what I learned from the last episode anyway. It was so individually you. It was so specifically you. So how do you feel about people around you with age it? Like what do you, how do you feel about it?

Well, I just was going to lead in by being like, I guess you have to sort of talk to all the people around you to be like, so turns out I've got this thing. Everyone I've told has been like, yeah, like that. And so I think it's just about telling people and then being like, okay, this is how I think this might impact our working relationship or whatever. And so it worked just like being like, telling people like, I can't take in these oral instructions.

So you will have to write it down for me. and so sorry, please give me like really aggressive deadlines and just make them, and even if they're not real, could you pretend? Which is a bit of a ask for people. Well, I think that's where I went wrong because we had deadlines, but it was quite clear there were little deadlines building up to the actual deadline.

And all you heard was the actual deadline. That's correct. That entire process would have been completely different. It's about going like, what's the motivation behind what she's done or not done? And I'm the queen of drawing conclusions and creating entire narratives about, well, that means she doesn't want to do the book or I'm being too much. Or that's the polar opposite of any of those things. It was simply just like, I just couldn't.

Yeah, of course. And then you're like, and then you're like, why? And unfortunately, when you try and like read up about it and if you Google, like, how to live with ADHD as I just have this very second. Live on the podcast. But all the things that like, wake up on time. I mean. Get a good routine going. Are you exercising?

And you're like, are you? Are you kidding me? And there's sort of stuff that I think a big, a huge part of it is accepting like some of the things you're going to have to do are very embarrassing. Not in like, you can't wear any, you can't wear trousers. But like, like, you just got to be like winning. You tell me that's not one. No, I'm just me like, not embarrassing in that sense. But like they will be like an almost playgroup level of like thing that you'll need that you'll be like, this is such an embarrassing thing to need.

But it is going to work. And so you can either be embarrassed or you can just like, accept. that you have to do this embarrassing thing and be like, but I got the stuff done. The major stumbling block for me or the wall to climb over is the enormous amount of shame that I carry with me about all the stuff I can't do. And so so much, I'm like, it's so pathetic, it's embarrassing. It's this. I'm lazy, crazy, stupid.

Like all of this, like the shame is so enormous that I think that's, I guess, the biggest thing for me is having to be like, I have to do these inverted comments, embarrassing things. And they're like, they're not embarrassing. They're just what you have to do. Yeah. They're just what you have to do. Unless they're taking your trousers off in public, that's embarrassed. It's like that you even differentiated between what would actually be embarrassing and what would,

and then continue to call it embarrassing. I know, I know, I know. So there's a long way to go on my shame journey. Right. That I think is, I mean, that's just come from school, primary school, just endlessly being told off and being like, why can't you do this thing? Endlessly. And ultimately, you're like, I guess I'm just a bad, bad girl. Oh, my God.

Okay. Okay. Well, right. So we're going to start with the bigger stuff and triangle in. Sure. Starting with medication. Oh, gosh. Gosh.

Gosh, that's a big one, isn't it? Sure is. And I think makes me laugh so much any of this. Like, everyone's just being overdiagnosed with ADHD and people just handing out pills. Be like, I'm in private medical care and it is so hard to get hold of the pills. Like, they are not handing them out to anybody. I've been around, like I was weirdly there for both of your, I think both of your main pill journeys. It's not like a, and I'm solved.

And it's like you were having a hard time the first one that you got. And also a wild time the second one. And a wild time the second one. It's an interesting process. It's called titration. I know, right? Is the word for getting yourself onto a medication that you and the psychiatrist are like green light. We're happy to move forward with this.

And we think we've got the right dose at the right time. And we're happy for this. So you have to go through that process. It takes quite a while while they're like... Are like trying you on stuff. You're like, no. Yeah. No, thank you.

Or... Well, I think yours is they tried you on stuff and then you walk into my changing room in a towel. What changing room? That you found from a bin. Where was this? It's Salisbury. It was the hottest day of the year. There was two changing rooms.

And the woman even was like, there's two changing rooms, but I imagine you're one, you went into another one, and I was like, okay, so Tessa wants to be on her own, okay. And then I went to a separate one

and was like, this is slightly weird, but okay, I turned around. You were in, you were nude in a towel, and you went, I found this towel out of a bin. And I was like, okay,

and you were crying. And you went, I think I'm very, depressed. And I was like, oh my God, and you're like, I'm on this medication. I think I was weird on the train. And I was like, no, you weren't at all. I actually thought, God, Tess is killing it. You're like, I can't. I'm so sad. And then you started laughing hysterically. And it was really like, right, well, obviously don't be on those pills, please, again, for yourself. My God. It was such a weird time. Yeah. Oh, God, mad. Okay. Yeah. So, I'm not going to, I've

decided, made a decision not to name any of the medications. Very good. I think people are going to go on such a personal journey. I don't want anything. Yeah. They're also going to be so terrified of bin-tow. Exactly. So I think this one for you and they'll be like, no, no, no. That's the bit of towel.

Okay. So the first medication I would, they put me on. Can't speak highly of it enough, frankly that. It really would, really help. No, the first medication, nameless, was a slow release one that was you're supposed to take every day. So, of course, I was like, ideally not. Like, don't make me remember to do the thing. The ADHD, like, don't do that.

So I was already like bit wary of the everyday one. And he was like, this is where I'd like to begin with it. And I was like, also, I don't really want to be permanently medicated. I don't really like that as an idea of like, this is a thing I have to take every day. I was like, could I just have a when I need it sort of one? And he was like, let's begin here. It made me incredibly sad and real just like eore stuff. And mood swings, irritable, mad.

Like I, at one point my perfectly nice boyfriend went to work and asked if I, quite politely, if I could put his laundry on the line. Such a reasonable request. And I said, why don't you just fuck off? And then to his credit, he was like, okay. Well, you've never spoken to me or anyone like that ever before. So what, should we discuss it? And that was the first point. He was like, what are these pills that they make you take?

And I was like, and I had been quite like, there's no correlation. Of course, yeah. There's no correlation, absolutely at all. And also the other thing with all the medication is that they tell you to take it first thing in the morning, you have to eat a big breakfast, take it first thing in the morning, and then they say, because you'll forget to eat. And I was like, go on. I was like, ain't nobody was a teenage girl in the mid-2000s who wasn't like, forget to eat, you say. Tell me more about being ill. Thank you. Yes, please. So like, a small part of yourself that you've done a good job of trying to bury is like, it perks up its ears. And it's like, yes, please. And I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll be fine. And actually, I was interested that you do forget to eat. And it does cause your appetite to change.

And I did lose weight, but not in a very fun way more. And it's like, are you well? Also, you were very sad. And I was so sad. And so it wasn't like, oh, you know when everyone was like, oh, you look well? You never. Didn't anyone was saying that to you that point? The opposite.

They were like, put your clothes on. Pop your clothes back on, hey? Anyway, so like, I don't, I really, really do not want people to be nervous about going into this process. Because it's all just so personal. If you're aware that it might happen, then that's different in it. Like if you're aware it might happen, then you're like, oh, maybe it's happening. Whereas you weren't really aware that. No, I was just so excited for it to fix me that I wasn't really aware of it.

But also like, I think, yeah, everyone is so personal. And when I went back to the psychiatrist, he was like, understandable. That is what people report. But some people, they're like, they come back after this first phase and they're like, oh, my God, life changing. So it's like, it's so personal. Anyway, then the next one they put me on. I was also there for that. Yeah.

Okay, do you want to tell them about this one? That was when I WhatsApped Tesla and said, should we get some merch sorted for nobody panicked? Because classic, what we were talking about last time, about three years ago, you were like, I'll be in charge of the merch. And I was like, great. And I sort of said a few times, do you want to do the merch? And you'd be like, absolutely.

And then that was this far as good. And I was like, I'm not going to, I didn't want to do it because I didn't want you to feel like I was taking over. And it felt like it was such your thing. And I'm so not a merchment. I'm not a merchant. whereas you are. And I didn't want to take that from you.

It would have been shit if I'd have done it as well. So very much like, absolutely. But it has been four years, say. So I thought, I'll just drop her a message and say, what I'll do is I'll try to galvanise it rather than do it. I was like, let's get the merch done. The response was absolutely astounding. Like I should have guessed that you'd taken something.

Within about, I don't know, half an hour, you'd bought 20 hammers. and an engraver to engrave slogans on the hammers you were talking about saying a domain website for the hammers I couldn't stop laughing it was very funny

like a cartoon version of what ADHD is like yeah it really was so unfortunately with this one this type of medication is an amphetamine but because it is it?

Yeah. But because your body doesn't make its own, doesn't make dopamine and adrenaline in the correct way. Like, it's not affecting you in the way that somebody who doesn't have it. So if I took it, for example. Yeah. Who's to say, have something for your fancy? I can't. I can't.

I'm too scared. So you don't have anything. Unfortunately, with this one, they were like, okay, so you have your breakfast. You eat your, remember, so you've had one meal. Oh, yes. You take it first thing in the morning. Then you make your to do list and you need to be, or you should, ideally have made that before you take it so that you're clear what it is you're trying to

achieve when you take it because if it doesn't have a clear goal, when the Ritalin kicks in, it will latch on like a baby bird seeing something that's not its mother and will be like, that's mother. And so I what's up to you? Unfortunately, just as I was the first time ever, Stevie texted and said, Hammers, to which my brain went. I didn't say, no, somebody must have suggested Hammers. It wasn't me. Because you don't have ideas on Ritalin, you only solve.

No, that makes so much sense. I said merch, you went, yeah, and I was like, you know, like nobody's panic hammers or something. Yeah, yeah, I just joke. And then you bought hammers. 20 minutes later, I owned hundreds of hammers. Hundreds of hammers. I got, I bulk bought off eBay, these antique hammers.

I bought the Dremel. I wore all this stuff. It was so fast. It was so fast. What did you do? Steve couldn't even, like the moment see me, we were like, I'm just sort of joking about the hammers. I'd be like, it's already done.

It's done. I've been sent out. They're coming. The hammers are coming. And then I was like, okay, we may be pivot away from this medication because it doesn't, you don't have ideas. You don't have new like distraction like, oh, I should do that. I should do that. It's simply like, here's the task.

We must complete the task. That's quite, that's too intense, surely. It feels like that. It's very intense. Well, now I've got 100 hammers in my bit. Of course. Yeah. Helpful in that sense, I suppose.

Right. So then we had to be like, let's. reassess that one a little bit. Okay. And then I'm on my third one now, which I really enjoy this one, and you take it as when you need it. And so if I had like a big day of lots to get done, I'd make sure I do my tasks, write down my list.

And then it feels fantastic. Like, it feels really amazing. And how it feels is that the first time ever in my whole life, I thought, it's quiet in here. I should put some music on. Was it on that medication? Oh, amazing. So that feeling of like, do do do do do do do do.

It goes away. And you're doing your one-time. even when like a distraction would pop up or whatever, I would be like, right, but not now. It was like, I was like almost dismissive to the distractions. I'd be like, yeah, sure, but I'm doing this. Yeah. Which is a, I've never, ever, I wouldn't be like, ah? I would just follow the distraction to completion.

And so like, I took something to the post office. And normally I would go to the post office and I would, I overshoot the post office constantly and I hit the main road. And then I'm like, oh, I was supposed to be the post office. And then back I go to the post office. Whereas this time, okay, so my friend has this Apple watch. that when it goes underwater, it says, it doesn't actually say this, but it just says the words, I'm swimming.

And then in that sort of, is his name Ralph from the Simpsons, the deputies kid? Oh, yeah. In his voice, I like to go like, like, I'm swimming like this. Just a funny thing to do. And then as I was going to the post office, it felt like I was like, I'm going to the post office. Like, I just went to the post office. Yeah. And then when I left, I was like, now I'll do the next thing.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. And I just was like, wow. That's so nice. No, I'll do the next. next thing? Yeah, I honestly was like, what's next? I was just like a band leader being like, what should we do now? And I, but I wasn't like, I was like just doing smart things. When I took that thing to the post office, the idea that sometimes I would leave things that I

couldn't take things to the post office felt insane. They talk about this thing, this phrase, the ADHD tax, which is just like, you're just paying more money to be alive because you are missing your library fines. You don't return an item that you like, within your 28 days. You don't, you're always like, I must return that, I must do this and you just never get around to it. I found a check in one of my, what we call the bags of doom, which is like, you just like, you can't face it. So you just put everything in a bag and put it under the bed. In sort of working through when I found a check that was from Virgin Rail.

It was for 15 pounds and 80 pence, not to be sniffed at. 2018, you know? So like, there's just, I remember being like, do you think I can still get that? Everyone was like, no, that's gone. That's gone. You have to let that go. You know, so there's just like, you're just constantly paying or losing money, quietly like seeping money out of yourself because you're just like,

forgetting or not or not remembering or just can't get your head around doing it. And so this, it was so helpful this medication. Just like, I take it like once a week maybe for like a big day where I'm like, here's all my errands, here's all my stuff I need to get down. I guess get them all done in my one day. And then the rest of the week I don't have to, I'm like, that's okay, I'll save that for errand today. And I know I will be able to achieve it. I've started, when I take it, I've started to understand what my brain is not doing correctly, which is like, okay, so making like the totebacks for you, not making them, which took me years. to make those five years. Four years to make the tote bags.

Just because that's the thing about ADHD is like part of you wants to do everything correctly. So you want to get like the perfect bag, the perfect design, the perfect everything. And just like a bag isn't enough. You're like and then you get in this like place of being like, it's better there's no bags. And then you're like, obviously it's better if there's just our bag. Obviously that would be better. Just pick our option. Yeah.

Rather than being like, I got to get it perfect. Be like, get it all by yourself. Anyway, but I finally got the tote bags. Got the recyclable made from recycled materials. bright purple bags that they were going in to be posted out, made a design with a tortoise on it that was for the postage labels, worked out how to do all the stuff, made these cards that went in them to thank people for being on the Patreon,

all of this stuff. If you've received something from me, it's a very different experience. I just put the bag in the parcel and send it. And you receive it. So I managed to understand what was happening, which was that when I was doing the tote bags, of which there was so many to do,

and it wasn't until somebody saw me doing it and was like, what are you doing? What I was doing was folding the tote bag, put a tote bag in the bag, print the label, cut the label,

write the address, put the thing on, put that by the door. And then someone was like, could I suggest we fold them all? Then we put them all in the bags as one.

Then we put all the labels on. But then, so what the psychiatrist was said to me was that to you, it's like, you move on immediately to the next task

because you're like, that's what the dopamine is to be like, this is folded. So next thing, so the next thing. Whereas like folding all these bags is like,

it's so boring yeah of course and then like and you're experiencing tedium in a overblown way and that to you is like everyone's like yeah of course it's boring but just tune out and fold them you're like I can't yeah nothing's worse for you than monotony monotony just doesn't come into your life

in any way well it's more it feels too much and it doesn't feel it's the difference like I'm just like that seems a bit boring so I'd prefer to do it this way whereas you're like I can't imagine the thought of folding all those things. What the fuck

what I do? Like you don't have to mean it's much more intense. The task of folding them all and putting them all in bags and doing things, I don't feel bored by the I'm like, because I'm doing this

and now this and now this all the different bits. Obviously do it this way. Of course. It's more interesting. More interesting because I completely I'm constantly frightened. And when I understood that a bit more

I was like icy so then when that feeling of like which I'm describing as this comes over me I know to be like push through, we're pushing through and not to just fight it and not to immediately

give into it but just be like we're carrying on Yeah, you're learning about how your brain works, which just must be so fascinating on a daily basis. I'm quite interested in how you're able to sort of decide when you take this medication that makes you feel like Ralph from the Simpsons. Because some people I imagine, I don't know how I'd be, but some people I imagine would just want to take every day. Because they'd be like, but why would I not want to feel like that, you know? And sometimes, is that hard if you have like a good day on it and then the day off it and you're back to kind of. of struggling to go to the post office?

It definitely isn't, yeah, you've got to be like just so smart with your time means because it isn't fun the day off it when you've had this like really good version of yourself that is like the best version of you to then be like, I couldn't do those things. But I think it's just about being aware of like what we're getting done today and then like when am I not needing to get stuff done or, you know, like I wouldn't take it coming to record with you because I don't, I mean apart from getting here aspect, but like once I'm here I don't feel, you know. You're here and you're just speaking.

I'm speaking and we're doing the quest. But also, yeah, we're doing the quest, but also I suppose. This is the quest, we're on it. Well, I'm really thrilled to be in your quest. When you're having your days off the pill, you're so aware now or more aware of like how your brain is working. Maybe that just means that you're having a better day anyway because then you would if you didn't even know you had ADHD, didn't know that, you know, like you're able,

you basically just know more about yourself so they're able to help yourself more oddly. Yes. I think that's definitely it. Like once you felt it and once you've understood about itself but more, you are better at it. There's something called turning tables, which is, like, in the, you know, in the restaurants, if you, like, you had a reservation, so, like, we need the table right now. For me, I really understand what that is, which is, like, this table's gone. I'd be able to, like, clear it immediately.

I was completely capable at work, like, when people were like, this table needs this, this is it. It was a very, like, I was very content in that environment. Whereas if I was alone and someone was just, like, over the course of the next four hours, clear all these tables, I'd be like, you know, back. to that whereas if I'm like, go, go, go, go, we need it. The next family are coming in. It's busy, busy, busy.

And so what you've got to do for yourself is create that level of adrenaline a bit, which again is this is where I'm talking about the stuff that's embarrassing is that like you've got to create drama or create a like, get it now, get it now. Like, okay, so when I wasn't taking it, I needed this drill that was in the basement, which is down four flights of stairs. And I was so overwhelmed with the idea of going to the basement that I was like, I'll use something else. I was like, you obviously need the drill.

Overgease instead of a drill. A screwdriver very slowly. Okay. And that to me felt better than going down to the basement. It just felt so overwhelming. It was like if you'd come into work now and you were like, I need this thing from home. You'd be like, well, I can't. That's that.

I'm not going that far away. Whereas when I had taken the stuff, I was like, what? And I genuinely couldn't go to the basement to get this drill. This is insanity. So now I know that if I'm not on it and I need something, I know I need to be like, we're getting the drill, get the drill, get the drill, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And like, you just have to trick yourself and to be like, get the drill. It's got to be like, it's life or death, it's life or death.

Like, get the laundry off the line. Go, go, go, go, go. Like, you've got to get it now. Like, so getting the laundry off the line if it's raining, totally fine. Getting off the line sometime this afternoon, never going to get done. Wow. waking up in the night being like, the laundry is on the line. But if it's like, get it, because there's raining, get it, get it.

Like, we've got to go. So you just got to like add that. And again, like, it's a weird place to get to with your partner, but you sort of have to do a little bit of tricking into like, quickly, let's get that now. That's your role play. He has to come up with, like, obstacles to make you not want, think that you can get the drill. It's got to, you've got to have a sort of like, your mother and all's coming.

Get the drill. Get the drill. Like, this is happening. Quick, get the drill. But like, get the drill. And love's coming. This is happening. Come on.

We're getting it. Yeah. Yeah. Busy, turn everything into a quest. Turn everything into a quest. Add that, like, level of intrigue. Yeah. that now this is a bit of stuff that I find very embarrassing that I have to do but now you'd be like you have this what you have to do

okay you have to just think you find that embarrassing because I don't find that from the outside that doesn't feel an embarrassing thing well I think if you just saw like a video cam of me working a lot alone at home shouting like your mother and all is coming you know running running running running running running running running running running we all we all do stuff like you would be embarrassed like I think it's just interesting like I thought's just different people different ways of motivating themselves to do things something one of us just running Yeah, I'm running. Oh, God! Get to the basement! Just getting some kitchen roll or something. Shouting like,

tiny tables! No, pointless. Yeah. We've got a table four. Table four, you know? Yeah. is, and not everybody will have this person in their life, but my excellent friend Molly,

we had a solid working relationship because she used to be my tech in Edinburgh and knows what I'm like and has seen me have my best and my worst. And I thought about this for a really long time and then I asked her if I could pay her for two hours a week to come around to my house and sort of basically supervise me.

Oh wow, great. And so she comes, we do a list. We do a big long list on an A4 piece of paper for all the jobs for this week and we like work it into a high priority, low priority, and like all the things that need to get done. And she said initially, when I asked her, she was like, absolutely, but what if I just come around?

Like, you don't pay me. And I was like, I think the payment is a really important part of this, that like this is an accountable experience and that you, this is a job and we both take it that seriously. But again, like, that's not for everybody because maybe you haven't got a Molly in your life, that you would be happy to let somebody into your home to, like, see you at your worst, basically. But I found it like life changing her coming to help. me. And even just like knowing she's coming means I do like the laundry, the stuff, the things like

before she gets there. I tidy up. I do loads of things. And obviously we just do spend an enormous amount of time chatting. But like I've started trying to get all this stuff that's under the big, you know, I built that big bed. Underneath it, stuff I can't, I don't even know what's under there. And I'm like, I can't even face it. And so she comes down and she sits in the middle of the hallway on a chair chatting when I'm like, this needs to go on eBay. She's like, and we're doing that right now. And stuff that has needed to go on eBay for two years, we're just like putting it on eBay, I'm working through the bags. It's called body doubling in the community. I'm so thrilled about the community. It's quite nice. So just having these phrases and being like, oh my God, okay,

somebody else needs to do this as opposed to like, I have to do. It's just me. Being like understanding there with these phrases and being like, oh my God, okay. Like when I saw the phrase bags of doom, I wanted to cry that the idea that like someone else felt that way about the bags they'd hidden around their house. So the body doubling is just like having a person with you. And so you can do it if you and your friend or both have ADHD. Either you could do you swap and so like one day they come to your house and help you because we're really, I found that we're very good at helping other people. Like I would be genuinely good at doing it for someone else and then completely incapable of doing it for myself. So you can take turns. Because it's a quest. Because it's a quest. So it's really

easy for me to do it for you. Impossible to do it for me. So you can take turns coming to other people's houses but also like there are websites where you can body double where you're basically just like on a video camera with strangers on the internet. But you're like, you're like, you write in what task you need to get done in the next hour and you're just like on this community of however many people who are online at this time or just being like keeping each other accountable. Wow, that's great. Which is mad.

So yeah, so she sort of sits in the corridor and we chat and I work through the bags. And then the last one we did, as I was going halfway through this enormous IKEA bag, I was like, oh my God, I've worked out what this bag is. And she's like, what is it? And I said, it's Edinburgh last year. Wow. Flyers, bits, badges, things. Power packs, stuff.

Yeah. Not like fake flowers, someone had given me on my last day. Like just stuff that obviously been like, I can't deal with this right now. And just put it in the bag. And it's just in the bag. And so just like having somebody and be like, this is, yes, it's embarrassing that someone has to come and supervise me doing these. But we're getting them done. Yeah.

We're getting them done. Two more. One is understanding object permanence. Yeah. It's what babies discover when they're about one. That is that when things go out of your field of vision, they continue to exist. Oh, yeah. No, absolutely.

So it's what babies, why babies think peekaboo is like such. delight because they're like, I thought you were gone. Right. Okay. When I was younger, up until actually, um, 20s, um, I would do the thing where like, yeah, if I broke something in my parents' house, I'd be like, just pop it behind the headboard of the bed. We're just going to ignore it as if no one will find it, it will disappear and it doesn't exist. And then as I've got older, I haven't done that so much. But like, I did it for too long, sure. Sure. And is that what you mean? Yes. Outside, out of mind. It's sorted. I can't see it. But then when you you couldn't see the thing,

were you always thinking I've hidden that? No, I would forget about it completely. Then that ties into the whole thing of like, yes, I'm the difference between like someone with ADHD and someone who just like has some of the characteristics. Yes. For me,

it's that like, obviously I do know the things that exist. But if I cut, it's why I'm like, I used to get obsessed with like having like an open wardrobe, for example. Oh my fucking God. Right.

I was so obsessed with your clothes all times. There's like a little cup of pipe and you'd hang all your clothes off it. And then you threw away so many clothes because you couldn't fit it on the copper pipe. I thought I had too much stuff. Yeah, you did. But like, it was, well, and I understand that.

I was like, oh, I see why I'm obsessed with that. So, like, now when the drawers are closed, I'm like, gun to my head, what's in there? Honestly, what's in there? And it's why the bags are such a surprise. It's like doing a hall video for yourself every time because you're like, what's in here, you know? Every time you open your own wardrobe,

Jesus Christ. Honestly, I'm like, God, yeah. So, like, it's a huge surprise what's in the stuff. Now I know that, like, so I've got like a big open-able cupboard thing, and within it is all plastic drawers. So, like, they're clear plastic. Yes.

Moji-esque plastic drawers. And just knowing that, like, that's what you need. Yes, it looks like a kindergarten, you know, art supply box, you know. I mean, I don't think it probably does, but sure. It does. But it's like, yeah, great, it's for the children and you. I don't want you to, I wanted you to stop saying it's for the children and you. Because it isn't for the children.

There's a whole thing about open plan and wardrobe. But it's to help them put them back the things because, like, that's where they live. You always put them back in their home and you can see the stuff. Or it's for other people. Or it's for people. It's for all the people. It's for all the people. It's for all the grown up people who just need to know where the socks are. Of course, yeah, because that would, I would say, I would argue, elevate anyone's. What is the first thing that rich people probably do is they have a walk-in closets. They can see everything because it's so much easier to seal your suits, seal your thing.

So that's not just you, but you need it because you struggle with a particular thing. because of your ADHD, but I just don't say it's for children, because it isn't for children and you. It's for the rich. It's also for the Kardashians and children and you. So, like the Kardashians. Yeah, that's what we start saying. You're like, yeah, that's what we start saying, you're like a Kardashian. So I've made a wardrobe that's like the Kardashians and just on the sign like, this is, this is what I need and that's good and grown up. That's good and grown up in night, and it's not embarrassing. And the other one is having a, this was from the forums, was to have a clear plastic box by the door that's like things that need to leave the house.

In the pop. Outtray. Outtray. Yes. What's in the outro? The Aesos returns. Oh shit. Oh, I see.

Yeah. A parking ticket. Take it out. Take it out. Stuff that, no, I actually did, you've got to be quite like, when I got the parking ticket, I was,

go, go, go, go, go. Well, that is, because there's Jeopardy. Jeopardy. Yep, exactly. But that's not, that Jeopardy, the knowing it goes up in 14 days

is not enough. Because you'll do it on the 13th day. Exactly. And then I'll forget. Christ. So you've got to be like, we do it now? Does the jeopardy now come from the fact that, God, if I don't do it now, I'll forget, and then I'll get a thing.

The jeopardy simply comes from Table 4 are coming. It's fictional. It's purely fictional. It's completely, even though it's a parking ticket that will double in money. Right, yeah. The jeopardy should be, it's going to cost you £60 more if you don't pay this right now. Yeah. Or contest it, which is obviously what I did.

The jeopardy has to come from the fictional mother-in-law who's arriving on table four. It has to be this like, quest, quest, quest, quest. Yeah. For £60 is not enough of a jeopardy. Crackers, hey? So I do that and then I put the envelope or whatever into the thing to be like that's still undelt with. We still need to, you know, so like, yeah, anything for the post office, the ASO stuff returns, bits. Things to take with you so you can get done throughout your day.

Somebody's cap that they left here that needs to go back next time I see them. Things like that. That's in there to always, yeah. And I put like papers, stuff that needs to be dealt with. And it goes into my outtray. Very helpful. Yeah. And so it is just like, it's just an ongoing continuous process that I have felt.

I feel increasingly positive about the whole thing. And I've made lots of small improvements to my life. My last thing would be like if you are living with a partner, the body doubling is such a frustrating thing to get your head around. If you don't have ADHD, live with somebody that you're like, this is a nightmare. Why can't they do it? I see.

You telling them like, just do it is sort of never going to get you anywhere. And nagging is going to send them straight into a shame spiral. And they're not ever going to come out of it. So a really good thing if they haven't unpacked their bag from your holiday four months ago or whatever would be to be like, hey, why don't you unpack the bag and I'm just going to sit on the bed and chat to you? I see. Yeah. So but if you attempt to unpack the bag, they'll scream.

So don't do that. If you're like, I'm going to take the job, I'm going to do the job for you. That's very helpful to know. They won't. That's not going to help. Because that's just much, much worse. Back into the shame. You know, so you just be, but you're like, I'm here.

We're just chatting and you do this thing now. And then you can assist But like learning Could I body double you You might think like This sounds crackers But they might be like Yes please

You know those five love languages That's like gift giving Oh yeah Blah blah blah That's it And the gift giving and blah blah And body job blowing weirdly That's what I'm body language

Yeah those are No whatever they are Acts of Service Acts of Service Like signing up to the army That's one Have you joined the army for me or not Complements

Physical touch It's your touch. Speaking, verbal. That must be one. Yeah, verbal assurance. Gift giving. Gift giving. The army.

The army. The army. The armish, of course. And the armish. And that's it. But then I saw this tweet that is the five, because I never really felt an affinity

with any of the love languages. Yeah, okay. I didn't really. I obviously, because I don't know what they are. But I'll look at it. The army, maybe. But otherwise I was like,

I'm not really. Because some people are like rave about their, and I'm like, what's your love language? And I'm like, I don't really, none of them are really speaking to me. And I saw this tweet that was the five neurodivergent love languages, info dumping. What's that? The idea of someone being like, could you explain?

Oh my God. Yes. Could you explain anything? Yeah. Could you explain anything? And you're like, absolutely, sir! I would love to. I would not let you down.

It's one of my favourite things in company being like, oh, tell them about and then just sit back and be like, absolutely. It's a joy. That's info dumping. Yes. We can also receive. We're happy to receive as well. We'd love you to tell us anything that you. Oh yes you do because I see it in your eyes and I can't info dump.

Like it's not, that's not my love language, both speaking and giving. Yeah. No, no. I love receiving it, but I can't give. Yeah. Parallel play is what children do just like at the sand pit. It's a phrase from childhood, but we're using it with adults in a non-embarrassing way. Absolutely. But just to be like, we're doing separate work, but could we do our separate work together? Right. We do want to come, we're both working on a project. Do you want to come around and sit in silence

and we both do our thing? Yes. And that is very content to me to be with anybody. We're both doing our work. Oh my gosh, like after we record, you often stay here and do work. Because I'm always like, if I need to do work, I need to be alone. Yeah, you'll be like, you'll say I've got this thing to hand in tomorrow and I'd be like, well, how wonderful. Let's both hang out and do it. Let's hang out and do it together.

Whereas you're like, no, that's okay. We're so not compatible. We can't be lovers. But we're not, yeah, exactly your style of work is not to do that. Whereas I stay here in the office just with everybody silently, but I'm like, we're all here. We are all together. All together. Support swapping, which is that thing of like, you come and help me do this and I come and, like, the idea of me being like, I would love to do what Molly does for me for other people. Like, we're just like, I'm good at this, but I'm bad at this. We'll take turns. Then they've capitalised this one. Each word is, each top word is casual, like it's a phrase. Please crush my soul back into my body. What? You know, my obsession with my weighted blanket or with people putting that all their weight on me. Yeah, or when we'd be sad after a gig, when we were in the sketch gig, we need to sort of just want some.

you'd like put one of our hands just on your head like that and I just sit there like because I'm not very tactile as a person at all so I'm like I had to go and ask for the hand and place it on you hold I think you want to ask me to hold your foot hold my foot yeah yeah hold my foot I guess I'm holding her foot yeah that's fine and that's fine and that's fine and that's fine um autistic children have this a lot they have this thing that it's actually a cattle press that they found that cattle when they're being herded love to be like to help them calm to be like, not squash, but like just like weight is up against them. And so they go to this machine and it like pushes. And then yeah, it was not hard, it's just like a nice feeling.

And it was actually a cattle rancher's autistic grandson who asked repeatedly to go in the cattle press that then they made one for children to like feel touch. And I when I watched it, it was like, I want to go in the cattle press. Oh my God. When I was, oh my God, this is repressed. When I was a child, no, I'm 14. Don't pretend you're a child. We're at DFS, the thing to buy. The sofa shop. We all know it. We all know and love it. It's also a carpets. Fuck! No, it must be just, DFS must be just sofas. This must be carpet right. Let's not lie. Allied carpets.

Allied carpets. Is that one? The Italians, the French and the Allied invasion of carpets. Okay, so we're at the carpet thing. You've ever seen, you haven't been to a big carpet shop where they've got the rolls. So I was, I'm 14 years old. My dad's there to buy a normal carpet. I wander off. I'm like, I want to get in. Oh, God. And I went through like a man. So then obviously I kept being like, I want to go through the mango and then obviously stuck. You've got stuck in the mangle at Allied carpet.

I've got stuck in the mangle at Allied carpet. Quite high as well because I thought, I wonder how high up I can go. So my feet are completely off the floor on both sides. I completely stuck. I've forgotten that. Oh my God. My parents was just taking me everywhere being like, she's such a freak. What's she done?

What's she done now? No, to their credit. They were very accommodating. They were like, she's gone in the man Well, I think was both my mum and my dad in their own way like, this is my thing I like to do. They're quite up for adventure. They're up for adventure.

My mum is similarly very tactile, wants the thing. So the holding the feet is not a, like, she does that. I think they were all like, yeah, we'd all want to go in the mangle. Your mom's quite quest-driven as well. Very quest-driven. It's a genetic trait. So, like, I was lucky that I'm raised by the people that gave me the thing because ultimately they're like, that's a lot,

but I do understand why you got in the mangle. The person found me and not even my dad. I tried to call for my dad, I couldn't find him. So they had to, um, could Mr. Coates, please come to the thing? They didn't say, your child, your teenage daughter is in the mangle. And then a bunch of people had to pull me through. They had to like, winch it up a bit to get, I was in there for age. Just trying to get some tactile press.

Yeah, I just wanted to feel, can be through so many by that point. If you saw me on the CTV, you could see me like, oh, that's nice. Go again. Go again. See if I can go higher and tight it. higher and more prayers so do you get your partner just to sort of squash you

just lie on top yeah yeah so he'll lie in my whole full body yeah it's a very but it's very interesting that that's the that's your it's called crush my soul back into my body to the extent where you get into a mangle

is like taking it to the end of the degree I'm loving that love to feel it and then this one make you laugh the last one is I found this cool rock and I thought you would like it oh my god it is called

it's cool penguin pebbles. Oh no, that's so cute. Because there is a penguin community that do the pebbles as gift giving. They also accept buttons and leaves in the thing. That's the people, not the penguins. They only like the pebbles. But like, as in people are just like, I found this leaf or this button or this thing that you'd like, I found this rock.

And when I saw that, I just couldn't believe it that I found this rock is like one of the things. The amount of people who've like received a rock and be like, thank you. Thanks for the rock. She's giving me this rock. It's great. No, it's great. Gosh. What a list.

Wow. This is very helpful. I'm sure of people listening, if you're like, oh, yes, yes, yes, it is. You're taking that off. Then, you know, maybe look into some stuff. Maybe look into some stuff. And I think, like, because I have tried to, because I was like, what is going on? And I have, like, sort of done a lot of the quizzes and the test of other stuff and be like, I have some of the way that people, I think it's that, like, some of the way people, I think it's that, like, some of the way people are talking about, like, like,

anxiety, for example, I'm like, some of this is ringing true and some of this is just not resonating at all. Yeah. You are so confident in certain ways. The danger, there's no risk. There's no risk. Yeah. So, but then, but in other things, you can be quite nervous about doing, or like, you don't want to say, because you don't want to say where we all go to Wacama because you don't want to drink. So there's, and then, like, you know, have, have various experiences with all kinds of various mental health stuff. But, like, I've never, this is the first time ever that I've, like felt spoken to by the, by the people that were writing, like this, I couldn't believe, felt seen, I think. And I think it's just like, you just have to keep looking for your group.

And then when you get there, you're like, like, somebody described it as like a duck being raised by chickens. And every time you go past the water, you're like, we should get in. And then the chickens are like, uh, maybe. Not really. I'd prefer not to. I'd prefer not to. So you're like, yeah. Right.

But you do. Yeah. And then eventually someone, like, when you're, like, when you're. 30 is like, by the way, you're a duck. And you're like, oh. And then you can get in the water. And then you get in the water. And it's fine. And it's fine to be in the water.

So I think, I just think so many of us are ducks in our own way and pretending to be a chicken. Yeah. Because they didn't know any better. And the chickens didn't know. No one knew. Yeah. No one's wrong.

No one's right. No one's right. And it's just like, you just have, but when you finally get that thing of like, oh, I'm a duck. Yeah. Must be such a relief to find out you're a duck. Yeah. And also that's a nice analogy to bring us home because it's not, a duck is not lesser than a chicken.

No, exactly right. Exactly right. No, there's no less, that's... Okay. She's crying. I should leave on none. Yeah. Crying because a duck is no lesser than a chicken. And on that note. Genuinely, absolutely fascinating. Thank you for coming on the podcast.

Yeah, so well, thank you so much for having me. It's such a nice podcast. I listen every week. I'm a big fan. I do a lot of voices. I do me and another co-host every week. Yeah, I always found that she, what you've done with her character is quite, weird. Alright, okay. Just a little feedback there. Sure, sure, sure. But no, I really, I think you and you're sort of throwing your voice.

You've got a lovely... Contombra. And the great chemistry. Oh, with myself. Thank you. With yourself. You are very good. You're welcome.

Bye. Bye!