Nobody Panic - How to Understand Wine

Episode Date: March 10, 2020

Absolutely no idea about wine? Don’t understand how a wine can be dry when it’s literally wet? Scared to ask in case all the wine snobs laugh at you? Welcome to Wine Tasting for Dummies! Stevie (religiously orders the second cheapest bottle on the menu) and Tessa (only buys wine with an animal on the front) rope in wine expert Phoebe to walk them through the vineyard of knowledge. List of wines:Val De Loire Sauvignon BlancOyster Bay Sauvignon Blanc Sainsbury's Pinot Grigio, Taste the DifferenceWolf Blass ChardonnayBarefoot MerlotMarks & Spencer Bordeaux Merlot Sainsbury's Beaujolais Villages Coteaux Granitiques, Taste the DifferenceWolf Blass Yellow Label Cabernet SauvignonRecorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive Productions.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. to an hour. Right, so this is Nobody Panic. It's the podcast that you know and love. Swerving hard left. It feels like it's a sponsored episode and we have crowbarred this in, but it's not. Tessa has always wanted to do this, haven't you? This has been my passion for so long. This is an episode. It's going to be how to talk about wine or how to understand wine. It's basically wine tasting for dummies. Yes. And I have been wanted to do it for ages. I didn't think it would happen. And here we are. So look, if you're not a regular. listener, and this is the first one you're coming into, I'd say pop away, pop back.

Pop back. Long time listeners, grab yourselves a glass and join us. And with this. Yes, it's midday here. I've not eaten yet. I've not had breakfast and we are, we're going in. Here we go. So this is one that's going to be all about wine. I'm going to tell you in a minute why I feel so passionate about this subject. But if you want to join in at home, it's an interactive experience. And we're going to put up the list of all the wines that we're going to drink on the podcast notes. On Twitter, on podcast notes, on Instagram. So, like, go and find them. If you want to host a do. And they're all really, like, they're all ones that you've picked on,

they find on the test. They're all from the six pounds in the supermarket. So they're all totally achievable. I think, yeah, if you ever go to a wine tasting with, like, work or somebody organizes some wine tasting do or whatever, it's the most, I feel hot even thinking about it. It's very stressful. Somebody opens a, like, a dusty bottle and then tells you that it's got, like,

I mean, I went... Tanins. It's got oaky, oaky plum. You can taste the wood and you're like, I don't know what wood taste. I don't know what that means. Someone's like, this is a sexy red. And you're like, it's a taste of sex. I'm like, oh, does it?

Crucially, we've got... It won't just be us, just guessing things. Getting drunk, isn't it? That would be bad. We've done episodes of that in the past, and we've learnt. But that doesn't work. No, we've also got, not only my best friend from school, but also professional sommelier. Right, she's not.

So I've got what she actually is. I will nip that in the bud now. No, Phoebe, you used to work in the wine trade, correct? Yeah, correct. That is truth. And you did do an exam. I did exams. The Weiland Spirits Education Trust exam.

All of those, yeah, yeah, all the levels. Presumably. Yeah. The highest level that you can go to. And she was invited to a special day out for people who are the top scorer's in the country. Am I right? What did you do in the day out? No, it was like another sort of another little talking test thing.

It was like a gold scholarship thing. Another exam. Another example. You're invited. Different to a day out. But we're getting an idea of what Tessa feels about exams. Okay. Yes.

Being chosen. So Tessa calls you a familiar. What was your job? Go with that. Wine retailer? No. Basically, I started, I started, I was in Italy before working at a big sort of wine producer. And that's what got me in, obviously, heavy drinking got me into it.

But then obviously in a more professional sense, Italy. And then when I came back, I started with the company Majestic, which lots of people will know. and for them, obviously, it's a lot of box lifting, but also they have to do the training and you have to pass your exams. Of course. That's why they're also helpful in there. They are really helpful.

They are really helpful, don't they? As do you. Yeah, so then did that and then just sort of carried on with it in other various jobs. Excellent. You're no longer in the wine trade now, but you've just continued that Paschuan. Continue the Paschuan, continue the drinking,

and it's just about having fun with it. Oh, God. Yes. And you, you, Tessa, you have some questions from literal people. I think I mean, do you feel that you're a confident wine drinker? Okay, so up until three years ago, always the house, because do I have any money. Then, loaded, no.

Now, bags off. Too much money, so I don't know what to do. No. Now, like, can, so I know, for example, in the Soho Theatre bar, the second white, the second red down is really good, the middle one of, and also the white as well, do know what it is. And I've gone through a period of time of desperately wanting to order by the name and not knowing. Now I think I know I like Shiraz and Kapanes Sauvignon, but that's only because I've had so many like rockers and been like, I don't get it. But then Tessa blew my mind, very, very recently, which is also why I'm fully on board with this podcast episode.

Because Phoebe, you told Tessa, about the difference between New Zealand and Chilean Sauvignon Blanc. Correct. And I found out that I, because I was always like, I don't like Savinian Blanc, is still, I like New Zealand serving out blank. And now that has opened me up in ways that I didn't know I could open up as a woman. There's a wine for everyone.

There's a wine for every occasion. And I think you just feel so stressed out in the, in the, in the, you feel stressed out reading the menu. You feel stressed out in the supermarket. I just always pick things that've got an animal on the front. And then I heard that,

don't do that. That's nothing. Always do that. Don't do that. And it turns out that when, is this true? that when a vineyard can't sell the end of their wine, they just stick an animal on the picture and then basic bitches buy it.

No, no, I think you're being, no, that's not a, that's not a steadfastful of the trade. No, no, no, don't beat yourself up on that. There are some beautiful animal pictures for some beautiful wine. Okay, okay. Other main factors to think about. Honestly, if it's got a joke or a nice picture on, I'm in. And I'm ready now to be somebody who doesn't just choose a picture.

Or you're spending money, so you want to know that you're going to spend it on something that you like. Absolutely. Or if you're going around someone's house, people hate that. Like, should we take this? Should we take this? Like, Andrew's so great at wine. It doesn't matter. Just have a, have the confidence.

I think that's why I do find a funny picture because then it doesn't feel like you made a choice. You were just like, ha, ha. It's got a porcupine on it. It's got a porcupine on it. And then you feel deflection from the like, oh, I thought I would pair this wine. I go with, if I'm like trying to impress somebody, I'm like over 10 pounds. And then you know when it says like, oh, it's been like reduced. But apparently that isn't always the case.

No, supermarkets can be tricky. Yeah. So they pretend it was. more expensive than it was to make it look like more of a reduction. I too have been got. I've been got. We've all been got. All together now, if in doubt, the one in the gold mesh. Yes, okay. Do you want to start with...

Well, that was one of our questions that came in. I'll keep them all anonymous because in case they're all too dumb. No, there's never a dumb question. Okay, that was question number one. Why the gold wire? Well, the gold wire is an interesting one. That's mainly, it'll be on a Spanish wine. Okay.

It was something that started like a Spanish tradition. And it genuinely was, well, now it's just a gimmick. That's all it is now. Okay. Whereas before, they used to genuinely used to protect their wines. He used to put these sort of mesh armor, like chain mail almost.

Oh, wow. As a sort of form of protection. So if they, like, dropped it'd be like, well, also to no one else could get into it.

It was just more... Yeah. And that. Do you mean around each individual bottle or around the bottle? Yeah, yeah. And you know, and you can see that.

The other classic one is, you know, you see like the old bottles with the wooden basket around the... Yeah, yeah, yes. Oh, yes. They look very posh. Yeah, but now it's just,

It's just a tradition. It doesn't actually mean anything, but it's just Spanish wines. You tend to see the gold mesh on. So it means nothing. No, but it's not going to give you... It's nice for a party. It's nice.

But it's just a little... It did make it look like it costs... When you see those in there like three pounds, you're like, well, they must have priced it wrong because it's got the gold mesh. So surely this is a hundred pound wine, but it's not. No, but it's a bit of fun. Bit of fun.

A lovely bit of fun. Okay. Question number two, what is the difference between Carver, Prosecco and what I, until a moment ago, confidently called brewing. but turns out Call it what you want

Brute Brute Brute! It can't be called that Wow Champagne I understand is a different boy In child

From champagne isn't it Otherwise it's just a sparkling wine We know that one The main question around that Carver Priceco and Brue Carver Proustache Brute

Bougain And what the Dio is just A level of sweetness So actually So the main question there is more What's the difference Between champagne

Proseco Carver Is what a lot of people Always ask So Brute We'll get to that, but it's more like a level of where your sweetness is lying kind of thing. Okay. But between all three of them, they're all sparkling wines, which is lovely. Everyone likes a fizz.

But it's generally grape and region are the only main differences and production methods. Between Prosecco and Carver. And champagne. And champagne. Okay. So champagne, France, sort of just eat like Paris. There's a little triangle of champagne region. Everyone sort of goes on big trips.

Everyone loves it. Champagne has to be made there. Okay. And the grapes there are chardonnay. Pino noir and Pino-Munier. Pino-Munier. It's like a made-up one. Yeah, I know. So champagne is always a blend.

Champagne isn't just one grape. I didn't know that. I didn't know that either. And all the big houses, all your fancy ones, your tattings, whatever. They all have hundreds and different little base wines that start as just like your normal wine. And then they blend them all together to get the same taste each time. Because everyone says, oh, I love Bollinger. Oh, I love tat.

And they want to keep that. So you're able to get that each year, year on year. It's always a blend. it's those three grapes. So you've got one white grape, which is chardonnay. Then the other two are actually red, even though champagne's always a wine. But how? But how?

But how? It's all to do with the press. The colour that comes from, for red wine, and or not in rosé and things like that, colours found in the skin of the grape. Okay. So it's there. So it depends on how you press it and how the juice comes out of it with how much extracts out of that skin. So which is why you can get such as like a white-looking champagne from a.

a red grape, gentle extraction, like skin contact, things like that. Someone gives me some champagne. We're all there. We're all there. What's he called, Moomin? The Moomin boy? Pino, Minier. Pino, munier.

Munier. Munier. Pino, Moomin. Pino, Moomin. And I can say, oh, you can really taste the Mooneye. Can I say that? No. Understood.

If you can taste that, you'd be up there in some sort of grand taster. Okay, okay, okay. No, because it's always a blend, remember. It's always a blend. It's always a blend. It's always that mix and makes a champagne. It's always those three boys? Always those three boys.

But then you get things, have you seen on the bottles, sometimes you see a champagne that says blanc de blanc? I have not, but I will now. But I believe it's there. So sometimes you'll see fancy champains that might have, they'll release there, blonk to blanc, like white, white. So it's only made from chardonnay, the white grape.

So you haven't got your Pino boys in there. Okay, but I want them always. You might, it depends on your preference. Just ask, whenever you next going out of champagne, ask are the Pino Boys in there? I'm my Pino Moomin boys. Are my Pino Moomin boys? Yeah.

I'm so sure. I'm like, you need a bar, you add too much. Why not? So, that's champagne. That's a champagne. And it's made in a tradition. It's called the traditional method, which is how, a way of making champagne. Basically, it's very complicated, but essentially it's two fermentations.

One that happens to make the first base wine, and then you bottle it, and it does a second fermentation inside the bottle, which catches all the carbon dioxide that's produced, which gives you the fizz. Oh. And it's very complicated and all the bottles upside down. There are some people that turn them by hand. The riddlers. The riddlers? They go around like this like, like, you can't see that, obviously.

They're cool. You're imagining it everyone. She's turning some bottles by air. And that's called, that job is called a riddler. Riddleing. And they just turn bottles by hand. But there are lots of like gap here people who become riddlers. No, because champagne's very, not snooty, obviously.

That's okay. Elite. The house is the people that working there. It's their passion. It's like a complete, you know, top end. Professional riddler. But there's obviously machines that do it now. But there are some like houses.

But there are other houses that do it. Amazing. But that, in essence, it's two fermentation process. It happens within the bottle. Champagne. Great. In a very basic, basic way. But what about Prosecco?

So everyone's like, why do I like Prosecco? I do like Prosecco. We then move to Italy. Oh, yes. Champagne. We're in France. Proseca, we've gone over to Italy. Oh, right.

Okay. Yeah. And then the grape there is the Glera. Mm. The glera grape. And so we've got a whole different grape So it's like food You know, you're not going to get the same taste

From different foods that you're making The outcome isn't going to be the same Of course And they called, it's called the Sharma method So we've moved away from traditional And they've gone sort of more big scale It's not as maybe refined Obviously you get some beautiful proscicos

Before any Italians are offended But it's more of the fermentation Happens in big tanks And then it's bottled under pressure Oh yeah But then you sort of get this is sweeter. Most people know that most people when they taste it, they're like, oh, I like,

they're the light Prosecco because it's got more sweetness to it. Champagne's more yeasty, brioshy, toasty, drier, yeah. It is more of a taste in your mouth champagne. Exactly. So the main, obviously, there's hundreds of different variations of these, but the main differences, champagne tends to be slightly more savory, less sweet, heavier hitting, and Prosecco sweet, like, fun, frothy. Bit of fun, a bit of fun. You know, it's hot, and it's hot, basic bitch. Yeah, which I'm so in Italian basic bitch.

It's not, but it's not, but it's not, but it's not, but it's much lovely ones. That's the thing. You try and get some lovely ones and it just depends what you like. And carver. Carver, so then we've gone down to Spain. So Carver's the only one that I can technically drink that doesn't make me allergic. Really? A lot of fun. Oh no, I'm so much fun in with all of them. But there must be like, yeah, there must be like a different way that it's because my doctor was like, yeah, cheap Carver, you'll be fine, but anything else, you will have a bad time. Okay. Interesting. So is it a different fermentation? Well, actually, it's still traditional method like champagne, but it's Spain and it's different

grapes again. Okay, interesting. There's one which I always pronounce wrong but it's my favourite. It's like Harrello. It's spelled with an X. It's like X-A-R-X-A-R-E-L. Harrello. Oh my God, that's your boy. That's my favourite boy. You found it. And the others within that. But

I don't know the medical behind that. That is weird. That's my doctor just talking shit. No, I'm sure there. I don't know anything about the body. So it's just the The Grapes and your country basically and the way it's made. And brute. Of course the brute. This is carve a brute, isn't it?

Yes, you carve a brood. So that, again, like I was talking about, comes back to sweetness levels. Right. And so you can sometimes see extra brute or brute, things like that, and it's dryness, dryness to sweetness. So do they add sugar? They do. So there's also in champagne as well. They add a little bit, it's called the dosage at the end.

You add a little bit of extra sugar, A, to kick off more fermentation, but also to adjust literally that level of taste, that level of dryness, sweetness and things like that. Just be sick I have more sugar in it than champagne and carbure. Yeah, because of the different grapes, again, there's sugar naturally within a grape. So when you pick it, so depending on when you pick it, say earlier in the season, there'll be less sugar, less ripe, so it's more acidic. And that will pass through to the wine. You get more of acidic wine.

Or if you leave it right to the end, when they're fully ripe and, like, bursting with sugary goodness, because obviously that's when all the animals in the wild would want to eat them. Yes. That would then translate into the wine. So, again, it depends on your client. limits, your terrors. But in general, a brute is a sweeter boy than a carver plain? Dryer.

A drier? Okay. And what does dry mean? Less sweet. Understood. So, brute is less sweet than carver? Well, Carver is the wine itself. I understand.

And then the level of sweetness, it might have like a... But you could see a carver by itself. And you might see some that say Carver brute. So they'll be like, they're just like saying, again, it's more of a labelling term now. It's more like saying, okay, it is dry. It's not going to be sweet. They'd be like extra brew. It's really dry.

I thought the opposite. I thought brew meant sweet. I did too. So, understood. Oh, it's because you said level of sweetness, which is, because it's drier, but I was like level of sweetness, more sweet. More sweet. Me too.

Okay. So to remember in the supermarket, a brute, he's a big, aggressive boy. He's a big dry boy. He's a dry boy. He doesn't. Oh, yeah. He doesn't want any sugary sweet boys here. No.

Carver. Carver. Carver. Carver, Carver. Carver. Carver. Okay, perfect. There are more questions, but I'm going to feed them gently in because I think they're on topic. So let's get into our white wines.

White wine, the first, first hit of the day. First hit of the day. The first thing that I have drank or eaten all day. Great. Please. So, yes, when Tesla and I were talking about it, we went, we've picked some of the major grapes that we all see. We all know love and hear, but maybe not know about. Yes.

I'll certainly hear no concept of what it is. Yeah. So the things that you're going to see in pubs, bars, restaurants, wherever. So you just get a little bit of confidence in understanding what they are. Yeah. Thank you. I would like confidence. We'll start with whites.

It's nice to start with whites. Then we move to red. Yes, a hard red. So it's kick off breakfast with a white. Good God. If we start with the nation's favorite, sovignon blanc. Is it the nation's favorite? Well, I don't know.

I'm just saying. Okay, right. Could be. Great. You know. It's my nation's favorite. But no, it's a very common grape. And I think that's the issue people get confused on wine menus they see names.

But like, is that the name of the grape or is that the producer? Is that the region they get confused? So just start with your grapes. You can literally Google it and say, you know, top five whites. And Sauvignon Blanc is a grape. It's a grape. So there is a grape hanging on the vine and that's a Sauvignon Blanc. Type of vine is a soap with what you'll grow.

Your Sauvignon Blanc grapes. Okay. Got it. So we're going to, we're basically looking at grapes within all of these wines. Okay. So then it gives us a little, little step into where we want to be. Yeah, which one's a sweet, which is right. Yeah.

Yeah. And what we like. So we're going to do it. Compare, compare and contrast. Yes, please. And starting with Sauvignon. Okay. Sovignon Blanc.

And we've got one from New Zealand. Oh, yeah. And it's often, okay, so this one we've got is Oyster Bay, New Zealand. Oh, yes. I've seen him at many a party. Yeah, and everyone loves picking up on Oyster Bay. There's also Oyster Bay, Chardonnay, Jesse, your name. What?

I just look so excited. I'm excited. Clutching yourself. I'm so excited. But also I made a really good joke earlier in which I said, the world is our oyster bag. And I felt I've been really gagging. And that just then I felt like

it's never going to come in naturally. Just you've got to say it. You've got to present that. But basically, New Zealand is a fantastic, fantastic country of producing Sauvignon Blanc. They are some of the big boys in Serbian Blanc and you'll see it on most menus. And also Marlborough is just the region where it's from

that you'll see on a lot of bottles. But the grape is Servenia Blanc. And then we're going to compare that new world wine with an old world wine in France we've gone back to France and the land of Sauvignon Blanc

obviously mostly associated with the Loire region Of course Well I mean I'm never not there Never not there Who's not there having a serving Of course from the Loire Obviously it's grown worldwide But this is one region in France

That's particularly well-known for its Sauvignon Blanc Got it Okay ready And so are there differences in Are we looking for differences in sweetness? Just general taste. Like the thing with the wine is you just want to, it's such a personal preference.

Yeah. There's no right or wrong. There shouldn't be snobbery. There shouldn't be judgment. It shouldn't be, it should just be fun. If you like it, you like it. If it's three quid, you like it. FAP.

If it's 25 pounds, you like it, great. But if you're less ideal. Less ideal for the world of your life. But yeah, but it doesn't matter. There shouldn't be like a judgment on it. Okay. So it's just, I, no one should tell you what you're tasting. I should say, this is it.

But which one should I like more? No, exactly. Which is the clever one to like. No, no, it shouldn't be like that. We'll go through it. We'll have a taste. Are there things that you should eat with Sauvignon Blanc that brings out its flavour, in your opinion? Well, yes, so Sauvignon Blanc is often associated with being quite a fresh, light, acidic, things like lemon, citrus fruits, cut grass is a classic one that everyone always talks about.

That's fascinating. But so, you know, so if you pair that, again, what grows together goes together a lot of the time. What grows together goes together goes together. So you eat France with it. So you eat France with this one. So the Loire is also famous for things like goat's cheese. And again, a goat's cheese with a nice, fresh, crisp, acidic. Oh, yeah.

Sauvignon. Blonde. I feel like so clever. Yeah. Just listening. I'm done. I'm done. We'll stop.

We'll stop and be like, no. Do you have any goat's cheese snacks? Because that would go really well with my valled at Juveno. Because when they go together, of course, they grow together. Yes. Well, you know, Italy, you've got. And a Pino, Moomin if you have. Pino, if you do.

If you've got it. Just, yeah. What grows with the movement? The big question. Whatever grows in the champagne? But you can pretty much apply that to think. So Argentina, famous for steaks and also for Malbec. I really hope that I didn't make us guess.

No, I just like, you don't know. Italy, you've got lots of tomato-based, pasta, sauces, things like that. And then they've got their lovely Tuscan Reds with the tannic wines that goes together with it. It's so helpful. Because why would a culture not do that? Why would you have a wine that doesn't go with your food? Of course. But also when people say like, well, what do we?

we having for dinner to bring you know and you're like I don't fucking I mean obviously I know I've cooked it but like I don't know I don't know what you pair with this but just being like what's the meal what country are we in white wine is it more like lighter like would you go like white meats and red wine red meat for sure and then obviously there's so many variants within both the wine and the red so you could get a really like we're going to try one after later you get a really big oaky rich heavy hitting chardonnay which is white which is white with a white grape white grape, white grape, that could go well with some pork, you know, because it's big enough to stand up to it.

It's big enough to stand up to it. You don't want the food or the wine to feel out of balance. Out of balance, you know? You want something that's going to match. It comes with sweetness. Like pudding, everyone's like, what do you have with pudding? It's really, really sweet pudding. Get a really, really sweet wine.

Yeah. So otherwise it goes all like flabby in your mouth, taste-wise. I'm constantly having that problem. Yeah, I just think that's flabby. I'm so sorry. I must leave. You were just telling us that, you found a wine that you loved.

I found a wine that, so I went to Carcasson, and I can't remember what it was, but I had a red wine there at this like Mission starred restaurant. It was out of season. We went like not in the summer, so Carcassan was like dead. And so everything was really cheap. So we treated ourselves to an incredibly expensive meal

because the hotel was so cheap. And we, I had this red wine, a glass of red wine with, and I can't even remember the food. And it was the best wine I've ever tasted. And then my boyfriend was like, took a note of it. and then at Christmas, like, presented me with the wine being like, I found it. You said it was the best wine.

Lovely. Lovely. Then we all, he was at my family home. We all, like, were enjoying pouring the wine and being like, oh, how exciting. We all drank it. It tastes like shit with a roast dinner. It was really sad. And it was really like, oh, it's because it's, I don't know what to eat with that.

What I should look at is what people in Carcasson, like what their sort of food, like what French food, basically, which, um, of cheese. Or if in total panic with a really good food, basically. wine. Rice. No. Sorry. Sorry. No.

Nothing. So maybe just enjoy, if you really panicked about what to pair with, don't have it with the meal. Olives? Sure. Yeah.

Come on. Olives. There were lots of olive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So here we go. Here we go. This is our serving on Blanc, but we're in France first. Oh, I love it.

We're France first. And so have a sniff. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You can have a look as well. This is great podcast. Yeah. Yeah.

It is good. But you can see it's really pale. Yes, it is pale. I'll be commentating. It's pale. It's liquid-like. When you... When you...

When you... Oh, sorry. Sorry. It was sorry. Tess is down to it. Get it in and just get it round your mouth, I'd say, first off. But just being like, like a fish. Just get like a fish because it's our first sip of the whole day.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. We get it all around your whole mouth because it's got all the different tastes. If you're joining it at home, this is the Moure Valley Sauvignon Blanc. It's a bit too, like, tart for me. So I just, I just swallowed it really. quickly because I couldn't get it around my mouth.

Like Listerine mouthwash. Is that possibly because I haven't eaten since yesterday? That's not good. But also, yeah, it could be that. To address in the future. Lime your stomach. Okay, we'll think about that. But again, because I was saying it is this quite crisp, acidic, light wine.

I would try again, go then again. Okay, I would describe that as a pub wine. A pub wine. If somebody ordered a Sauvignon Blanc in the pub, I would be disappointed when they arrived. Yes. And I would be like, we're in the pub. Well, I wouldn't even be disbursed. disappointed. It was what, if I may,

what I was expecting Sauvignon Blonde to always taste like, until the Oyster Bay boy came out. Until Oyster Bay, yeah. But that is what, so it's quite like, it does taste sharp. Can you feel like the water like coming down the side of your mouth? Yes, I can't. Yes. So that's your acidic receptors sort of there. Oh wow. Your acidic receptors

are on the inside of cheeks, guys. So like I'm doing again. So it starts making your cheeks water. I would really agree with that mouthwash thing that like it just feels like it's... I want to get it dumb. Yeah. I want to get it down. Exactly right. And that's why I do in puff. And that's why you get so drunk in the because you're like oh just get that down i eat a lot of crisps when i'm having this because it's

disgusting sorry yeah because it's disgusting yeah i sorry val de lois people sorry a lot of the when it is it is that when it's in your mouth you don't want to keep it there you do just want to get it but may i say creamy creamy cheese would be delicious with that because it's like putting showing off no it's like no it's like when you put like mustard on like something and it's yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like horrible in your mouth but then when you have a lovely creamy like See, I wouldn't know goat's cheese, so I'd just be like, cream. Drink some cream, have a bit of that. You have a great time.

You're laughing. But I just think, I can see that. Yeah, like a cream pasta sauce or, you know, whatever you're doing. A carbonara. A carbonara. You know, things, so. I'd still be disappointed. Yeah, still be disappointed, sure.

No one said we wouldn't be devastated. But it would take the sting out of it. I wouldn't make you leave if you'd brought it if I'd prepared a creamy dish. But equally, someone will try that and think, I love that. Yeah, so great. So, sorry, if you're at home being like, that's my favourite ball. That's totally fine. That's your jam.

That's what you like. Maybe next time get like two Sauvignon Blancs and have some creamy boys. I mean, we stop calling everything a boy. But some creamy women, that's awful, to enjoy with it. And then you can work out yourself if you like a French Savignon Blanc or a New Zealand's Zévenerangue. And then when you go to the pub, you can be like, sorry, sorry, that's French. Do you have any New Zealand's in New Zealand? Oh my God, I'm already aroused.

They say, yes, we only do it by the bottle, it's really expensive. You go, I'll go back to that balto. Laud, thank you. Val duels. No, you'll always find in New Zealand by the glass. Okay. All right. So then like, smell this again and immediately.

It's so much nicer. Oh my God. I am quaffing that. I'm quaffing. I'm quaffing. I'm quaffing it. I'm like, but I'm not quaffing. I want to stay with it.

I'm like, I want to keep smelling. Yeah. So what's your immediate difference that you're smelling? This feels like we're running through a meadow. Oh, we're running through a meadow. Oh, we're feeling a bit more fruity, a bit more tropical. I just, see, this is the problem I have with the one thing. So the fruity and the moment that we start talking about actual things that aren't wine that I can taste.

I don't understand. It sounds like a book. You're like, it's not in the glass. Like undergrowth in a damp forest. Like, I'm not there. All I've got is like, it's like, it's like, it's like that made me sad and this makes me happy. Yeah, that's fine. And that's all you need.

That is literally all you need. When I say we're in the meadow is like, I feel happy. So probably in a meadow. Right. I understood. I don't like meadows. So I'm at home alone. But I have a shower.

But it's probably like. A summary, right? You feel a bit... You're not... It's not... Oh, the lights are off, and the sun's pouring into the room. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you can notice the difference, basically. Because it's so much smoother. It goes down so much nicer. Oh my God. It's like a world away. And they're both Sauvignon Blanc. It's mind-blowing.

Mind-blowing. This feels like... I want to sit with it. I don't want to just get it out of my mouth. Yes. It's... Which is, this is the big appeal of New Zealand's Sauvignon Blanc that so many people like,

because it is more fruity, more tropical, softer, a little bit sweeter. Soft, is not pulling my cheeks in. Sure. Sure. And why not? Why should it?

And why shouldn't? Question from Twitter coming in, live. Why do we swill? Why do we swill? In the glass. Why do you swear it around? Basically, when you're tasting wine, there's sort of a few basic stages.

First, you look at it, just have a eyeball it up. But it can do. There it is. A lot about a wine. You know, it's not a really dark colour. This is very light, almost see-through. so you're thinking

you're sort of thinking you're sort of thinking you head oh it looks close to water maybe it's going to be quite light acidic you might think that you might so you look at it first you then sniff it it's like the premier ney

if you're going to be fancy so your first nose get your first nose in and then you get your second nose don't get your back nose in this is why we can't do it because I've only got one nose I've got one

it's where we've got it wrong and then you get that first initial scent and you think oh what do I feel about that then you swill it you start swilling it will then release

because obviously it's getting oxygen into it it's warming it up, it's getting air up in there. Okay. It sort of supposedly, depending on why it is, it will be releasing more aroma and sort of taking a deeper, deeper hit in your nasal, nasal screen. You know what?

That didn't make a difference because I've already drank it and also spilled it loads, but it did make a bit of a difference. But yeah, it does. I should do. It should do to just help it. Yeah, exactly. It's more going on. Yeah, more going on.

You're actually serving your blanc. We've done, we've done a very brief serving your blank. That's a New Zealand for me. So a hard museum. It made me understand so much that I didn't know what to avoid. And now I know that I'm, I personally would avoid the New Zealand. Really?

You prefer to drink that shit. Yeah, that listareen stuff. No, that's what you like. Yeah. So is that just a preference. I just find the other one too much. I find it too, too much going on. Wow.

So you just want to be sad. You just want to be sad. Yeah. You just want to hate everything. I guess. Just want to hate life and goats. Also, Phoebe's doing some great business here where she's like, We now have established a dregs glass,

which I think at the end of the podcast recording, we're going to drink. There's absolutely no question in my mind. I'm wondering that. Okay, and so just to reiterate your thing about there is no shame. There's no shame. We're throwing shade at you hard. Yeah, but I don't feel the shame.

Understood, and you should. You're so confident, this is the thing. Like what you like. Like what you like. It's like food. You know, people don't feel bad about, I think wine just has this quite elitism,

luxury. even though, you know, we've been waking it for millennia. It's because we freak people out with words like a premier Okinaise. And your first nose. Yeah, but then if you said to someone, do you like your sourdough or your brown bread or your hovers slice, everyone's quite happy to say, oh, obviously that. Because it's just, but it should be the same thing. It's just an ingredient that is producing something that we consume.

So why do you feel shame? Oh my gosh. Don't feel shame. So now, gang, we are moving on to... Sorry, Swil. Pinagrugio. I was just drinking. Right, so Pina Grosio, to me, is like really sweet and, like,

fun girls go, sorry, did you have a Pino? And they don't mean noir. They don't mean noir. Or Mouins. Or Mouins. They don't. Yeah, it says, Pino Grigio says like, I'm a fun girl. This says summer pub.

Pino Blasch, maybe, Pino Grisio. Yeah. What's the crash? Italy. Lovely. White grape. Also, called Pinot Gris. You might see that on a bottle sometimes in the French version because of it's gray.

Grisio, green, depending. Oh, it means gray. Gray. What's Pino? Okay. Great. Grey Pino. That's what that means.

Grey wine. That's what fun girls are drinking. Yeah. Did you mean grey wine? Sorry. I just want to really get on it. Lauren, have you got any grey wine?

It's got that grey one. But this again is really popular. We're going to lose you. Yes. I apologise. This is really popular because it is inoffensive. It's light.

It's not going to blow your socks off either way. So there's not a lot going on in it. It's not a lot of things. much. Okay, so I'm looking. I'm not looking. Can you smell much? Nothing.

No. It looks quite yellowy, but it's also very, very watery. Yeah. Oh yeah, in comparison to the Sauvignon Blanc I'm not smelling. It's really not a lot.

It's just, dead in your nose. It just tastes like wine. And this is a Sainsbury's, taste the difference, Pino Gritio. Floral notes with a hint of white peach and melon. For those joining in at home.

But I reckon neither are you going to like it's still got that quite acidic. So, I prefer that to the first one we had. Me too. It's sweeter and it's like, basically, it's less,

Like, it feels, so I'm going to describe it in noises. So this is the first seven-in-blanc. Mm-hmm. This is a pinocryche. Like, he! Nice, yeah. And then this New Zealand one was like, hey, there's a lot going on.

That's exactly how I feel. That is it. This one is like, I would say this is inoffensive, but it punches your tongue at the end. Yeah. And if you wanted a sprit, you'd probably choose something like this because you know you're not ruining, you're not ruining anything that's really delicious

you want to have on its own. Interesting, yeah. And say that's quite a nice baste. Yeah. But again, it has that thing of you're not enjoying it, you're getting it down. Yes, I'm not enjoying each sip. I'm not liking this. It's a relief to me that it's not disgusting.

Yes, that's exactly it. And that is how I feel about so many wines in the pub and anywhere. It's a relief when it comes and you're like, oh, that's not horrid. Yeah. So then you know that's never going to be horrid. That is a good choice. It's not the best choice. It's not the best choice, but he's never going to offend you.

No. Solid. I think that's a woman. Pina Grisio is a woman. Pinagris is a very sort of, yeah. She's an absolutely inoffensive woman. You're not going to remember her from the party, but it's nice to see her. But she's certainly not going to make you cry.

No, she's not. Whereas the Loire Valley, that girl's a bitch. Okay, that girl's a bitch. Last white wine then. Okay, great. Relief for me. Relief, relief, relief. It's going to be a chardonnay.

So I never, ever, ever pick Chardonnay. I've picked, so I've never, ever picked, because I don't understand what it is. It has a real reputation in the press. Chardonnay. It got, it was the name of that poor girl and footballers wives. Oh, my God, that was it. Yeah, that was wife. So Chardonnay does tend to have a bit of a bad rep, quite unfairly.

But yeah, because of all the associations that we just touched upon then. But people will often say things like, I hate Chardonnay, but I love a shabbly. That's one that people often go to. I've never heard of a shably. No, okay. Well, when I used to work in the shop, for example, that would be one of the big ones that people will come in and say. A shably. Sounds nice to say.

Sounds lovely. It sounds lovely. Chabless. He's got a s on the air, so then you sound good when you don't... Whereas chardonnay, and no offence chardonnay, but it has got too many harsh letters in it. I think it sounds lovely. Chardonnay. Again, it's that association with footballers' wives. Yeah, yeah. It's really cemented that.

But then it's also... I would genuinely like to know how much damage that did to the industry. I think maybe quite significant. Maybe. Thank you. Carry on. But also, we learned that it was also in... What? The face is... Champagne! Oh, sorry. Yes. We panicked. Is it? Sorry.

Champagne and the two Pinoes. It's Chardonnay, Pino, Pino, Mouman. Oh my God. It's like I'm hearing the information afresh every time you tell me. I'm like, no. You've never said Chardonnain, your life. I truly have forgotten that as well. Oh, no, it's fine. So that's why it's good to remember.

Because we love Shard, because it's in all the fancy stuff. It's not a something to do. That's a real surprise. I bet that comes up in a quiz question a lot. Yeah. I bet. Look, some more excellent insight from Tessa.

Okay, back to the boss. Back to the expert. But Chardonnay, again, is really popular worldwide because it's a very versatile. It's a white grape. But it's very versatile

because the glorious thing about shardinet is it can, well, it can be very light and fresh when Burgundy region, we all heard of the Burgundy region in France? Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. Okay. I haven't, but I'm happy to know.

I haven't either. Okay, so one of the, so things like Bordeaux is a big region, champagne's a big region, Burgundy is a big region where you get a lot of fancy high-end. Yeah. Yeah, it's a region, so the places within it. Okay. The coat door is one that always, yeah. Anyway, so they are big on their chardonnay.

But, so you can go from very light. crisp, acidic chardonnays to these big, bold, buttery Australian, for example, does Australia does it like a lot of these. Big bold and buttery. I hear the word buttery, but I'm like, but there's no butter in it. No, sure. But then oaky, you've heard the word oak. That's a big buzzword for a lot of people when they're talking about wine.

And what do they mean? Because it's generally come in contact with oak. Oh, no, but it has. So obviously you can age wine. A lot of people have heard about aging wine. So you press it, you get the juice out, it's fermenting and things like this, and then you can pop it in an oak, oak barrel. Oh, wow.

And let it just mature there, like the maturation process. And that's why it's touching oak. And that's why oak is semi-porous, so it allows oxygen to get, it obviously contains the wine, but it allows oxygen. Seeshing out. It's all slowly seeping, losing thousands of pounds a year. So it allows the oxygen to come in. It gives it an extra depth of flavour, and the wine does draw

oaky and tannins as well. from the oak. And from the inside. What's a tannin? Tannin. God's sake. For God's sake. We're almost on the reds.

Tannin is a compound. It's a molecular compound that is found within the grape pips and the grape skin and some of the stems. And so generally in plants, you'll find tannin in tea as well. So your black tea bag, you'll get lots of tannin in there. And it's, have you ever had a red wine and it almost feels like chewy around your mouth? You almost feel like your teeth are getting laced with something. That's the tachin. tannin because it binds very easily to protein.

And that's why sometimes if you, after a night out, say, you've made on the red wine, you spit out in the sink. You'll see, you know, you've ever seen that way if you've got red wine mouth and you sort of rinse your mouth out and you spit it out and you can see little clumps of red. That's because the tannin has bound to the protein in your saliva. Oh, that's a gross example. But it's like almost that chieness, that sort of astringent, bitter. What does it do to the wine?

Like, why do they have it in? So you want to have it in because it helps. A, if you're aging wine and maturing it, or just going to sit in a bottle for a long time, you need certain things like acidity and tannin to give it some structure, to give it the wine some oomph, otherwise it's just going to slowly lose all flavor.

It's got nothing to hold on to you. So it just gives it some more robust body. Okay. And it gives it an extra depth of flavor profile. It's just naturally in there as well. Right, okay. So it's just naturally occurring. So some people love it.

And they start off quite astringent and bitter, but then as a wine ages, it softens and comes this really beautiful tannin that we like to taste. So sometimes you've heard people saying, oh, you've had the wine too young, not that I've ever. I've never heard of. No, I've never had a wine. I'm going to keep saying that.

Who do I say that to? Throw it around. Throw around. It's on my own because of red wine. Maybe not accuse someone else because then they might not have them, but like when you're serving someone wine, be like, it's possible that it's too young. And then they don't know.

So you can't, they can't tell you. I'm not. You're too young. And then they'll be like, it's because of the tannin boys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they haven't softened enough yet. They needed more time to... They needed more time.

Many of us do. So, tannins just a compound. Okay, does white men have less tannins in fewer tannins? So it's in the rare... It's associated with red wines. Yeah. And so you can, because I said it's found in oak, you can get tannin from the oak that'll come through...

So if the chardonnay, like we're talking about, gets put in an oak barrel. More full-bodied. More full body. Yes, Stevie. Butteriness, because oak does have a smell. If you put your head in an oak barrel, it would have a smell.

Tessa, you've definitely done that. Tell me you've put your head in an oak barrel or otherwise I don't know you. Of course I'd have. That is a lovely smell. But we'll talk more about that with the reds. But anyway, let's have a... So Chardonnay, just think, experiment with it because...

Pouring your ears. Pouring your ears up your nose from everyone. Because you can get so many different types. And again, if you find the country that you like, the style that you like. Okay, looking. For those at home, this is the wolf blast. Yes, we've all seen wolf blast.

We've all seen wolf blast. And generally I ignore it because no picture. But says wolf. He's called himself wolf, but he hasn't delivered for me. I understood. And stuck a wolf on there. And if he had, I'd be, I'd be buying that shit. So if you're listening, Wolf Blass, South Australia.

Okay. So that's not quite nice. That's very different to the others, isn't it? But does it feel, when you're swilling it around, does it feel slightly, swell around? Oh, sorry. And just see, does that feel slightly heavier in your mouth? It's quite acid-y, again. It's got a punching element, I'm going to describe it as punching.

I don't like it. To my horror, having said, it's got no butter in it while I'm using the word buttery. I can understand. It feels like you melted some butter and then you drank it. And it's slightly, like, oily. Compared to the other one, very, like, water. This one's got slightly more viscous. And again, it's got some more oakenet, more melany.

So think less citrus fruits. more sort of stony fruits. Okay, yeah, I don't believe that. Does that make... It does make sense. And also, I think I'd be able to drink on the plus side, I'd be able to drink less of that. I'd be, like, maybe, like,

if that arrived at the pub, and I'd be like, great, I'm going to move on to a lighter one next. Yes. It would make me crave gin and tonic. Definitely. I would say, but someone would say, John and other, I'd say, absolutely not. No.

That is a hard no. No, you asshole, how dare you have bought this for me. Yeah, no. It is, but it obviously, like, I can see that, with this one, like the first one that I hated, I can see that how people would like it, like I can understand that. Also, I'm

so aware that so many people listen to the podcast, like, on a Tuesday morning. But this is, you know, pause it and come back this evening. Come back this evening, yeah. Ready to drink along. Drink along. And see what you think of the Wolfblast Chardonnay. And if you love it, love it. Yeah. You don't. But

I'd say try, go and find, you can get pretty decent prize shablies. Look out for that name. A shably. Look out for a S or a shat. A s. A s. A s. A, C-H, CHBless. Oh, Chabless. Yeah, Chablis. And is that lighter?

Or a Macon Village. That's always a popular one in the supermarket you see. Or a macon-villade. Okay. Lovely to say, though, again. Lovely to say, yeah, macon-vales. And is that lighter than a chardonnay? So they're both made from chardinet, but it'll be light.

The shabli will be sort of crisper. Yes. Right. Lighter than this one. Yeah, absolutely. So, again, it's just experimenting, but it's knowing if you saw Shabbly on a bottle, you wouldn't think, oh, that's a chardonet. But now you know.

So it's just these little things that you sort of figure out where the grapes are and how they're called throughout the world. And I can see that that, I would not describe that as crisp at all. No, it's much less acidic. Yeah, that's exactly it. Hey. Hello. Is the. Exactly right.

Exactly right. God, I'm so glad I've not been on a wine tasting. No, but that's the thing. No one ever says what they think on the wine tasting course because what they want to say. Oh, I agree. You just say, oh, yes, yes, I can taste those rather than what you want to say, which is, hey. Let's go on to Reds. Are we ready?

I couldn't be more ready. I don't know if I am. I'm quite frightened of the Reds. Because Red Wine is so, like, some serious business. Yeah. That's funny that, isn't it? White wine is just a lot of fun. And Red Wine is like, this has come from my cellar, and red wine is my passion.

White wine is nobody's... Why is that, though? Why is that the... I think more men? More men? Is it because men... Because, yeah, because when men talk... When men who like wine talk about wine, they are often talking about red wine.

red wine and then the way that men talk about a peanut. They're not talking about a lovely pinot and then yeah and then women I guess women who like wine will talk about both because I don't know I didn't know why it is. It definitely has this aggressive like you're saying about the elitist thing and it feels like it's a male thing and like getting your reds wrong. Getting your claret out. Exactly

a claret and you're like what the fuck's a claret? I mean you absolutely can because I did get used to get very drunk off red wine for those a period of time but I it feels like less of wine that you're like oh cool we're going to go out and have like loads of glasses of red Like it feels like you can drink one really good one And then sometimes I get quite tired Then you have to retire to the study

Yes I have to smoke my cigar And then it's time for the cigar Boys in the in the cigar room Whereas yeah because white wine I feel like it's more I drink it quicker And it's more quaffable That you can suddenly be three glasses down

And then you're establishing Sometimes we quaff it because it's disgusting And so you're trying to get it out of your mouth But the socially acceptable end Rather than when you spit it back out Which is what I've been to Yeah But the Reds also can tend to get to a higher

alcoholic level anyway. Right. So they can be harder hitting them to get a white wine. So they can be more alcoholic than a white wine. Yeah, generally, they can get higher. They can go sort of up to like your 14 to 14.5. Whereas you can get a very innocent white that's maybe 11, something like that. An innocent 11.

I never look at the percentage. I'm always just like, I don't know, wine. Wine percent. So that red wine, it gets you drunk and then when you spit in the sink, it's all still there. Disgusting. Why is anyone drinking red wine? Well, I guess we'll find out. Okay.

So red wine, it tends to cause more, not confusion, but it's almost more of a minefield because there's even more sort of popular grapes that everyone knows about. And, you know, you're saying Rioja, but is that the grape? Is that the region? Is that the Kianti? So it's a bit more. I'm panicking, but don't panic. So we're just going to, again, stick with grapes.

Okay. We are staying with grapes, everyone, because that's going to be our sort of bouncing board into all other worlds. So let's start with the Merlo. Merlot. So Bordeaux, region in France. Yeah. Yeah?

Most people have heard of Bordeaux. Yes. Confident. Confident. But again, Bordos are tend to be blends. Okay. Like the champagne kids.

Multiple. Tend to be blends. But your three main grapes are Cabernet Sauvignon. I love that. Yeah. Cabernet Sauvignon. Merlo and Cabiné Frank. He doesn't often get much of a narrowing.

He's like Pinolema. He's like Pino. get to come out a lot, does it? Maybe Frank and Moomin should like start a podcast or something. They should really collaborate. Yeah. I would listen to that. I'd be very quiet, but yeah. But there are six permitted grapes for Bordeaux,

but those are sort of your three main ones. Okay. And Bordeaux, so Bordeaux is your region. Okay. Bordeaux is a region. I love that, I now know that Mirlow's a grape and I have no idea for like 30 years. And Merlo is your grape.

Oh, I love it. And unlike Brute, you don't say the tea. So I can, you know, it's not Merlot, is it? Merlot, no, Merlot. So we're going to compare that. A French old world mellow with this lovely label, Californian. California Merle. And this is the barefoot.

The bear foot on it. A bear foot. Of course, it's the bear foo. Who among us has not seen that in the supermarket one offer? I bought that because it's fun because it's got fun. Exactly. Obviously, these are all supermarket wines. And when it comes to buying supermarket wines, people, one of the questions often is,

well, is it worth me buying a £10 bottle, that you're talking about? Or should I stick with my £5 bottle? that I can find. And obviously, we're not in Europe, we're not in France, where you can get a beautiful bottle of wine for three euros because we've got some of the highest UK wine, like, taxes on wine are the highest in the UK. So you're paying a lot of fixed costs. So you go to your supermarket to buy your barefoot Merlot.

But just for import duty, the bottle itself, other transport costs, things like that, your fixed price, say it's £4 and you're buying a £5 bottle of wine, that value of your wine is one pound, right? Right. Whereas if you're buying a 10 pound bottle and your fixed cost of four pounds, your value of wine is six quits. Six pounds.

Okay. Hot math. So it is better to sort of stay around that 10 pound range so you're getting more bang for your buck. You're not just losing it all. What about, okay, so is four pounds, are you making that up or is four pounds? Yeah, that's completely made up figure.

That's just giving like an idea of fixed price and take that off what you're actually paying. Okay, so of the price, a lot of it. is just the import tax or things like that. Taxes duties, yeah, packaging. When they, and what is, so when they say, you know, like, oh, it's six, like, it used to be 15 pounds and now it's six pounds. I'm always like, well, 15 pounds is a lot of money, so I always buy it.

And that's not real. Well, that's totally at the discretion of that supermarket, that business, isn't it? Right. So you don't know that it was supposed to be 15 pounds. So they could make that up to make you buy the wine. Well, yeah, you know, they could say, oh, yeah, we've put it at that and then it's gone down. But if you look around the eight to 10 pound mark, you're generally going to be, getting more of a value for what you're actually, you know, the money you're parting with versus, say, a fiver.

Yes. So that's just bad, bad wine. Well, yeah, it's not, it's just not going to be great. Yeah, okay. But it's not like going, you know, when you go to the continent and everyone's, because it's just come from down the road, you can safely buy. It's so cheap, because you don't have to pay the import tax or the bond. So you think, well, why are we paying that back here?

Because we're, you know, we're in Ireland and obviously it's going to be worse now. I see. I see. And also, that's not a lot of difference. I mean, it is obviously, but it's not, because, you know, I obviously, I'm often just like, what's the cheapest one. But if you're just going to pay like a couple of quid more to get like a much better wine, that's like, that's great.

Yeah. It's good, good to know. It's not like you have to pay 20 quid, which is what I always kind of think. I'm like, a bit of £10 is still. Not at all, not at all. So just going up by like two pounds is the difference between being like, ooh, that's horrible. Or being like that Merle was actually going to live up to expectations of what I think a Merlot should be like.

So yeah, it's just something to bear in mind if you're shopping. Okay. It's a bit more and you get a lot out of it. So Merle. Oh, yeah. So this is the Barefoot Merle. California California. Best of class sticker.

Got a sticker on it. So of course, this schmuck bought it. But when you're looking at it, you can sort of, you can see through it. You know, it's not exceptionally dark. It's quite a nice ruby red light. So that tends to make you think

it's going to be quite fruity and young. If it's red, vibrant, light, you smell it. Fruity? It's like pulling my cheeks in. Okay. Yeah, it's quite acidic. I almost want to say it's like almost a chocolatey,

there's a chocolate element everyone I can believe that and yeah I don't know I don't know I don't hate it I would drink it at the dinner table

but Mano should just be quite it's quite an appealing red that isn't too strong too bold to knock your socks off yeah it is quite quite fruity light

simple just have that have that with some dinner yeah just any dinner just any dinner have it with any dinner but you're not gonna you know

you're not gonna sit down and enjoy that glass no On its own. I'm so, like, unaware that I'm like, because it's that thing that you said, if it arrives that it's not horrible, I'm like, oh my God, it's the best one I'd ever had. I'd be like, lovely. That is a lot.

That's the thing. We're so thrilled when the first sip is nice. Yeah. Because we're so used to trash. We've been burned so many times. Wine is such a fucking roulette. But I think that's so drinkable. That's quite, totally drinkable.

You could actually, if you didn't pull that face and I kept pouring you a glass. No, I feel like back yourself. You don't like it. You wouldn't drink it. So what's next? So then we're going to compare, we did the Californian Merlot, and now we're going to compare that with our Bordeaux. From Bordeaux.

And this, I know I said about blends, but this guy is actually 100% Merlo. Because I thought I'd choose it just so we could do a fair contrast. Oh, right, okay. So one was from California. And now we've gone, because I think one of the questions was, what's old world, what's new world? Yes, absolutely.

So old world tends to be Europe. Okay. So you're France, Spain, Italy, all of those. Because they've been doing it longer? Did it long, it started there. And then New World is when, obviously, they took... Oh, good day, I'm just joining in. I'm new to the party, but I got a lot to give.

Yeah, exactly. So, like, the countries where the vines were transported to and introduced to grow there. And so you're America, South America, Australia, New Zealand, places like that. So then have a go at this, Merlo. I'm having a look. I'm looking through. I'm looking through. I would say it's Ruby Red.

Really Ruby Red still, yeah. Having a swale. Merlo is not the great... I'd say away, stay away from border. It's not for me less. It was really dry. I feel like I need to put water on my tongue. Maybe too young.

And again I would say very, we're in the pub. Yeah, that's tannins are grippy. You still have gripping it around your mouth. You know, you can feel that. And you sort of almost want to like clean your teeth with your tongue. I want to keep, yes. Yeah. That's tannins.

Clean your teeth with your tongue. Tanin. There we go. So, Merlo. No, no. No. Nobody order... No, I know.

I like cheap... So what was it? Where was it from? I like cheap... The California. If you have to go for a Merlo. I'm going to make notice of this. You want to go New World.

New World Merlot. New World Merlot. New Group Merlot. From anywhere in the New World. And New World also, it's great to experiment with them because there's a lot of tradition and regulations and rules that come with wine and production that are still very prevalent in Europe that have been just there, you know, since the 18th century.

But they don't have any rules. in the new world? Well, less, because obviously they were setting up and they could do their own thing. It's happy to be out of the house. Happy to be out of the house. Happy to have a go. A big old meat. I tell you what. I'm just thrilled to be here, guys. Right. So the next wine we're going on to is Tess's favourite, Bojolet. Oh, wow. But only because of the sound. Oh, it does sound good. So lovely to say a bojolet. We discovered this. There was a very expensive bojolet in the pub I used to work at, and it was the most expensive of the wine list. And one time, when I left, we had...

And the manager was like, okay, you can have whatever one you want. I was like, the bojolet, please. And I tried it. And it had been two years of me being like, one day, the bojolet. I didn't like it. And I felt really stupid. Again, you must never feel stupid. And they never feel stupid.

I've learned now. That's what we're learning. Never feel stupid. But Bojolet is quite a nice one to compare when we're doing reds. It's not a grape. Bojolet is the region. Okay, we're blown away. It's not a grape.

What's the grape in the bojolet? Gamma. Gama. Can I just say, when you said, what's the grape in the bojolet? I was like, wow. Wow, who is that? You know what? I didn't even think it because it was so natural.

It came to you like, it was there. And I was like, who is that? Thank you so much. Thank you. Is your gamet grape? Is there any other brands of wine that gamet is involved in? And there we, and you fell from your bed still. But I need to ask the question.

You've got to ask the question. It will be blended in other ones, but it sticks mainly in this region. It's the bojolet is your gamet. So, bojolet region. And it is bojolet region. And it is bojolet a small. region than Bordeaux. It's so it's, again, we're in France, and it's the southern bit of the sort of within

the Burgundy region. Yes. Bougal is just like off to the right. Right, okay. So like down south, but right, in its own little pocket. And it's smaller? Yeah, it is, yeah, so it's quite small. Yeah, it's got one grape.

And it's, yeah, it's got a few little, like, villages. Okay. Villages of it. That's French, yeah. Because it's what they tend to put if it's like a special village on the label. They'll put it on there. But this is a quite. interesting one because it's the production method is very different. Okay. So fermentation

classically, just a brief scientific point. Um, if you can stay with it is to add yeast. So you've got your grape juice. So you're pressing your grapes. That's what we'll start with. You get your grape juice and you add yeast. And that's what starts the conversion of the sugars in the grapes. Add the yeast and it'll convert that into alcohol. That's why you're, you can't, you have trouble with wine sometimes. Because I think you'll be allowed it to wait to yeast a bit. Same with me. Yeah, we've all got a bit of a problem. That's what the, when the doctor was like, oh, you could have cavar because there's no yeast in it. He was talking shit, because there is yeast in Carver, right? Yeah, they will do. Yeah, so absolutely. He's talking absolute shit. But also

people get affected by sulfites. That's another big one that people get allergies to. I'm so glad I'm not alleged to sulfites because it just sounds like, I'm sorry, I'm allergic to sulfite. Yeah, you're like, what? In a cave. Don't eat it. But don't lick the cave then, mate. Yeah. What's a sulfite? out there in wine. A lot of people with that lash rash. I don't know what it's called. Probably sulfite.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. In the medical problem, but it's when you go completely red from drinking wine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And spotchy from drinking wine very quickly. But vodka as well, all that.

Yeah. It's just cheap. It's just nasty. Because again, very brief point, so much else goes into wine. It's not just grape juice. Yes. So many additives, depending on what you're buying,

if you're buying shit, cheap wine, it's going to be loads of additives, loads of chemicals. Mm. Body doesn't like that. If you buy a nice, fancy, natural, organic one, much, much, much, much less. Okay, okay.

I didn't know that. I just genuinely presumed it was all grape. No, you've got... There's no ingredients list on wine. Interesting. Yeah. Controversial point is that, you know, the clarity of what you're consuming is on everything, all our sort of food products.

Yeah. They've identified a controversial point, Stevie. No, I say you're on. Yeah. Absolutely on fire. And I'm ready for the bogeal. But quickly back to the fermentation, bojolet is different. It's called carbonic maceration.

That sounds very scary. Too much, but basically it just. just means it doesn't use yeast. Okay. It's an enzyme fermentation. So we should be able to drink it. Yeah. So it gives you, but the point of me mentioning that is because it's that fermentation that gives it, gives all bojolet, this lovely, people often say bubblegum, but very banana-y, sweet, light, fruity.

You love it. It's tesser in a cup, in a glass. Banana-ri and bubble gum, okay. That's really, princess over here. Yeah, that's really vinegory to me. This one's quite acidic. Yeah. I hate it.

After all of that. It was bigged up so much. I was like, what are they talking about? It's bubble gum. They're talking out. What? But it's very fruity.

Yeah, fruity. But not as fruity is that first Merlot. But not as you've got none of the, you don't really have those tannins. Do you not? It's so dry. It's very acidic. That's what I mean.

It's very dry. It's like red lemon juice. But generally as a rule, that should be. what I said should be what Bojolet is like. But keep experimenting. I'll be honest. That one is not a...

Okay, Sainsbury's taste the difference. We can just pass on that Bojolet. I guess I have that... I think that was £4.50. And we need to maybe go up... A bit higher. Yeah. A bit higher.

I say if you're gonna... Merlo, no, no. Bojolet. Upper shade. Up. Up a tray. Okay. You're looking on this shelf.

Should we look a shelf higher? A tray. On the more expensive shelf. If you are going to buy a bojolet, I think you need to, you can't just go for a classic basic. You've got to upgrade. Whereas cheap Merlot, you're laughing. You're laughing.

As long as you stay in the new world. In the new world. New world, Merlot, you're absolutely golden. But Bojolet, let's go. Let's make you sure we stay up there. Yeah, make sure we stay. Bojolet, chasse away. Chassee away.

Get more money, buy a more expensive bojolet. That's what we've learned today. That's what we learned today. Oh my God. One to look out for. One to look out for. Another wolf blast has just... Is he our final boy?

He's our final boy. Here he comes. Otherwise I think we'll all be. On the floor. Bringing us home at the end. Nobody here is spitting because why would you? I've drank them all. This is another wolf blast.

This is the yellow label. Again, no wolf. Where is he? But an eagle. And it's the Cabino Sauvignon from South Australia. So we're going to, again, we're back. Grape. Back to our grape.

Cabinet Sauvignon. That's the grape. That's the grape. The region is, Wolf. Wolf with the appellation of blast. I joke for the semiliades. That was a real high-end joke there from Phoebe.

I'm myself. We understood, everyone in the room understood it was a joke, but couldn't grasp on. Honestly, this stage. Right. So we're going back to our grape of Cabernet Sauvignon, which we also saw in the chardonnay.

No. The champagne. The Bordeaux blend Yes, the Bordeaux blend. The Bordeaux blend, which I hate it. That was the Bordeaux blend of Melo. But Cavanesee Cervion is... I don't have high hopes for this, boy.

I'm just going to put it out. I love Cappan. Yeah, let's be open-minded. Sorry, sorry, sorry, no shame. Grown wildly, wildly around the world. You'll find it. Australia is very famous for it. Obviously, France, but you'll see it also.

You'll see it in America and South America. So just look out for everywhere. You'll see every wine menu we'll have it. Straight away, look at the colour. that's a dark that's dark doesn't doesn't that seem very different we're sort of purply now we're we're not in ribina anymore so we're gone much deeper and then smell it yeah it's a lot more like like sort of smelling liquid jammy like sort of smelling liquid jammed absolutely not but no i've looked into the idea of liquid jam i'm going to taste it and you've said it so i'm agreeing

but i'm just trying to think of of little triggers that makes you think it's not i'm open to liquid Oh, berry. It is quite jammy, jammy, blackcurrant jam. Blackcurrant, yeah. So then blackcurrant is a very classic thing. Quite tasty this. Yeah. It tastes like juice. Think of Australia.

And that's my ideal if they do it. It's like juice. Australia, hot country. Oh yeah. We've seen the fires. But, you know, it's a very hot, hot climate versus, say, mid to northern France, much, much colder. Yeah.

So imagine if you've got fruit, you know, it's the same grape. It's the same thing. But you're putting it in a very hot, hot climate as opposed to cold. So if you had a black currant, and you heat it up in a pan to make jam, it's a very different taste if you were freezing it, say, and making a smoothie out of it.

God, yeah, so that's why it tastes jammy because it's a hot hot drink. It's a hot jam. Absolutely blow my mind. Can I say, that's fantastic. You like a Capsavignon? I like a South Africa. No, I like an Australian.

I like a South Australian. I like a South Australian. But there's a lot going on. It's so, like, heavy-hitting, but you can still taste, it's still that grip at the end. You still got the tan in there. Yes, but it's like, you know what?

I'm happy when the tan in comes along because I've enjoyed the journey so much. Whereas before I didn't want the tan in because I was like, well, the first bit was shit as well. And now you just want to ask it. Exactly. Whereas this is like, an after kick, sure, but it was worth it. It was worth it.

I imagine we'll listen back to this podcast. We've got way more layers in this. We're going to sound, I just can imagine listening back to this podcast and at this point we sound like we're not drunk. And we are. That's what I was thinking there. And again, experiment with it when you can see it, see it out and about. you think I like Australian, but if you see it from another country, have a go.

Have a go. Who else? Sorry. No. I suppose like, yeah, you know that at least it's one that you might like. And now there's not the, when you get it and you're like, oh, I don't like it. Now we're not going to be like, oh, I don't like anything or any red wine. Yeah.

No. So would it taste very different from France, the Cabinets Sauvignon? Yeah, it can do. Okay. Absolutely. So again, it can be much bigger, boulder, you know, like your big Aussie Reds is quite a popular thing. When you keep saying big? Big, like big,

lots of body, lots of structure, lots of aroma, lots of flavor. Okay. They've got a big aftertaste. Like the pina grueger was just so like, he, like it's so thin. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, a big presence.

If you tasted the pino noir after that, you'd be like, that's very light, we're staying up here, we're bubbling away. That's not a big red, that's just a lovely, a lovely light red. Okay, so like a big personality at the party. He's got opinions. Yeah, he's got his barbecue going.

He's got, yeah. He's ready. He's holding his tongs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eat some meat. And that's the Australian Cabino Sauvignon. My take home is like, know your grape. Start with grapes.

Start with grape and then know your region. Yeah. Because I think that's what is where we all, you know, we all get stuck is being so thrown by the region concept. Because I think that is mind-blowing that it can taste so different. The same grape can taste so different in what country it's in. And so to know that you have to be looking for two things is, I think, crucial. But it's all just about experimenting.

It's being armed with a few key facts of what, like, say what grape it is you're looking for and what the grape name actually is on that sort of long list that you see. Yeah. And then just trying it to be like compared, okay, I had a Cabernet Sauvina from Australia, which I loved. But if I see it again from somewhere else, I'll try it with that. See how I feel? Yes. Just very loosely, go with that and start with three white grapes and three red grapes.

Yeah. Find your flavours of those and then go on to the next. Oh, God. It was really interesting. Oh, I'm glad. I have to say. Oh, my God. I feel so much more.

knowledgeable but also more like confident which is the meaning that like I don't feel alcohol teaching you yeah sorry yeah it's battered mostly I feel more drunk I feel more confident I can do anything like okay no no shame on not knowing no shame not liking whatever you like and also like of course you got confused with your how many things there were like if it's because if some of them aren't like you like the bojolet that's a region not to grape and then this cabinet save one that's a great but it also can be yeah and it's very like, it's very confusing. So I think I've always presumed things like

Sophenyne-on-blanc was like, I guess maybe the region is probably like soap-finyon and blank was white. Sure, exactly. You just don't know. But why would you? Because they don't make it obvious, do they? There's so many words on the front of a wine bottle.

So break it down. He used to work in a bar and when people would say like a dry white wine, I'd be like, uh-huh. And that's a big red. I just get them whatever I can see. Because I was like, well, it's wet, so. What's your issue?

What's the problem? I was told when I worked in the bar that Pina Grisier was sweet and Sonoblo was dry. So that's the only one I've ever known. Yeah, that's the only thing you're confident on. And they'd be like, yeah, something like it. And the moment they start like rubbing their fingers up on to the phone. Yeah, yeah, we're out. And you're like, no, I can't, I can't.

And I'm like, do you have a like it? And I'm like, whatever you've got, it's on the list. And I don't know what I can't. You tell me a name. If you were asking for an uttery bokey. An ottery bokey. There we go. An oaky, buttery, you know, big, impulsive.

Impulsive. Powerful. I'm like, I don't know what you. I'm on the start of a blog. I'm on the side of the blog and it did very well. Like that's a point. A man and he's got a blog. He's got a dark pass but it's not too bad.

You know? Two dogs. One's older than the other. Do you have that by the bottle? No. Yeah. Oh my God. I feel so, I feel so ready to learn.

Good. Go out and learn. Go out and experiment. Please drink along. Thank you so much, Phoebe. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

I want to do this for. of so long and I'm so thrilled to get to do it. Thank you, Stevie, for letting me, allowing me to do this one. Oh, no, it's fine. Because I know there was some pushback. I was confused as to how it would work.

And now I see. I shouldn't have been confused. See next week, do please follow us at Nobody Panic. Podcast. Me at Stevie MBS. The S is a 5. Me at Tessicoat. Phoebe, too busy being a grown-up

to be on the internet. It's just nice to have, quite frankly, an expert who guided us. A real adult. So graciously. a real adult. Through our dumb questions. I know.

So great. And next week, please do join us again when we won't be drunk. It'll be service as normal sort of just rambling along. Ramble in along. But having had a burrito

rather than like 17 glasses of wine. But yeah, see you next week. And thank you so much for listening again. Thank you. Bye. Bye.