Nobody Panic - How to Work with a Friend

Episode Date: March 22, 2022

Thinking of starting a hustle with your BFF? Stevie and Tessa have worked together for ages, but also they’ve worked with loads of friends, and so have some good tips on what to do to avoid killing each other. Or just liquidating the business and never speaking again.Subscribe to the Nobody Panic Patreon at patreon.com/nobodypanicWant to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded by Naomi Parnell and edited by Clarissa Maycock for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Follow Nobody Panic on Twitter @NobodyPanicPodSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The date is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace. It's coming to London. True on Saturday the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September at King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. to Nobody Panic with me, Stevie, and my friend whom I work. I would describe you as a work colleague and nothing more. Oh, for God's sake. And this is the problem. This is it. We got a very, very funny DM that just says, podcast episode, How to Work with a Friend?

Three question marks. It feels like that's something that's very much going through your life there, Emily. What was the time? What's the timestamp on that? 10.4 a.m. Oh. So she's just started working. Yeah, it feels like she's in the meeting.

The meeting's happening and she's sending that three question marks. How can I work with a friend? Yeah. It's pertinent to us. Very much, very much. And also, like, our jobs, we tend to pretty much always work with people that we are friendly with. And that can cause some problems. Certainly.

But it can be great. But it has some similarities with the housemate, how to be a good housemate thing. Because there are some friends that are just the best pals in the world. Yeah. And I love them to pieces. And the thought of working with that makes me want to throw myself in the river. And same, I'm sure, I'm with me. because there's certain personalities that just don't meld, isn't there?

So I think I've got also friends that just will never work with anyone that they're friends. I'll be like, I don't work with friends. Yeah, it's such a thing. I'm excited for TV. I'm also excited, Tessa. But what's your adult thing, Tessa? Well, I soft launched an adult thing earlier, which was I got into bed last night and the mattress was a skew, by which I mean it was completely off the bed frame.

How did that happen, just a bit of fun in the day? Okay. No, no, God, I just... Just spinning on your own bed for a bit. Could you be a board? I think it's that the bed frame isn't quite as sturdy as it could be and the bed head is also just... I haven't attached it yet.

Anyway, and it was just completely askew and I would just lay down. I was like, that's fine. And then... Like diagonally. Honestly, with your head flopping off. It wasn't completely at diagonal, but it might as well have been. And I just lay on it and I was like, yeah. And then I said to myself, have some respect.

Get up. get up and sort your mattress out and it was extremely easy to do and I was like that feels better that feels like just a grown up anyway that feels very poor so I will tell you that on Sunday I ran the Brighton half marathon Why didn't you leave that's amazing

I did another I don't you know I don't like to tell people because people will ask if I've trained and I'll say no and also you told me again after you ran the last one to make sure you didn't run anymore no I said don't let me run another marathon Half marathon different, you're correct, yes. Half marathon, I truly believe the human body can just run a half marathon. The human body cannot run, just run a marathon.

Right. A half marathon, I do believe to be ugly, but fine. And people say, like, do you like to run? And I say, do I hate to run, but I love to race. I love to go to a race. I love the excitement. I love the goodie bag. I love the tinfoil cape.

I love the medal. I love it. The bits. I love it. So I thought, I think. I think what I'll do, instead of exercising regularly, is three times a year I'll run a half marathon. Get all your hours in in a big chunk. Yeah.

Rather than regular exercise. Not a good idea, sure. But anyway, I ran the half marathon yesterday. And my friend, ages and ages ago, I said that I'd come down and we'd run this marathon together. And then on the Thursday night, I went on to buy myself an application. And they had obviously sold out. And I was like, oh, I can't let him down.

And he'd sent me a photo of his number. So I was like, what I'll do is I'll Photoshop that. You scammed yourself into a half marathon. Yeah, I'm the marathon swindler. I'll Photoshop it and I'll just go. And then I was like, he'll be so, he's an anxious soul. I was like, he'll be so cross if I show up with this Photoshop number. And he's like, you'll get me in trouble and why you?

So I don't mind being naughty on my own time. But I don't like to involve anyone else in my naughtiness. So I was like, right, I can't do that. And so on the train on Saturday night when I was going down to stay with him, I went on Twitter and I searched hashtag Brighton Half Marathon. And I was an account being like, it's tomorrow. Like, is anyone who's excited? And then underneath there was a bunch of people who'd written, I mean,

people have been like, yes, me, but some people had written like, no, I've done my ACL and you won't refund me my place. So I'm not excited. So I messaged them directly and said, I've got a friend who is looking for a place if you want to sell yours. And one of them, he replied in all capitals being like, no. Your life is a sick, Glam. But then the other guy was like, yeah, my pleasure.

Have it if you want. So I got off the train. I got a taxi to his house. He gave me his number at the door. And I went to Rod's. Good Lord. And then I was like, brilliant. We're all sorted here.

Anyway, so we're walking along and Rod's number is pink. And mine is yellow. And you've got all these different waves. And as we're walking there, Rod like reads the back of my number. And he's like, you're in the elite category. No. And you didn't even need it. mean to be this time, but the amount of times you actually would have opted in for that.

Right? And so we put a bazaar, we've got on Amazon, and I was like, I'll just stand with you in the pink category. And then this person is like, are you yellow? Madam, quit getting yellow. And then I had to go and get in the yellow category. And it was just like men covered in gels, goose fat, like limbering up. And me, I had my hair tied up with a mask. And we just stood in the yellow pen. But then I just sort of snucked my way to the back of yellow. pen. But for a while, I was just stood in the elite runners, in the elite men's as well. That is amazing. Just me in the middle. And then I was like, oh, this is dumb. This is why you supposed, you do things ahead of schedule and you don't get your number of a man on Twitter.

Like 100%. Yes. But look, great anecdote. That's what we all do it for by William and you. Great anecdote. I was stood in there being like, oh, this is dumb. You are an idiot. What are you doing in here? So that's mine is I ran it. I think I, and I did one of my best times. That's what happens. Dress for the job you want. You want to be an elite man. Set off with the elite men.

Oh, God. What's your adult thing? I mean, I did a hair mask for the first time. That's nice. It's consistently. Stop it. I literally just did. My mattress was a skew.

No, I know. I know. But then you also did, you like, wormed you way into the elite men section of the half marathon. So it's difficult to be done. But I've never done anything to do with my hair. I don't, straightly, I don't have any... I just don't do anything ever.

I just sort of... But I do get it bleached. And so the last time I got it bleached, the woman was like, oh, you should do a hair mask every week because otherwise your hair will start to all, like, breaking. And I was like, okay.

Crisp up. Yes. And it has started to go a bit hay-like. So I was like, okay. And I got, by accident, I bought, like, essentially, like a gallon. It's like the pot is so big. You have to use two hands to hold.

it of this stuff. And the woman was like, you just pop it in and then just go about your day. And then you wash it out. So it's like, popped it in. It's gloop. Like, you cannot go about your day. It's like dripping off me. It's glooping. I'm like some sort of slime monster. And it's not, it's not easy. And I won't be doing it again. Are you sure you did it right? Yeah. Is it like, put all over your head and then just go back your day. Well, I need to, oh my God, I need to buy a shower cap or something. That's what, okay, fine, sorted. I need to put it on, put it up, Put it in one of those fancy shower caps you get from like TK Max that have got like leopard prints. So it looks like a thing.

But I just did it all wrong and I just felt like whenever I do things like that wrong, I'm like, oh, I'm not a good woman. Like I'm bad at it. And I felt very sad. I'm sorry for myself. Then I realized it was a hair mask and just like grow up. What a roller coaster of emotion? Or as always. But what do we know about doing things like that?

The first time you try things, it's always tricky. It's always tricky. And then you learn and you go again and you take it in your stride and... Thank you. The next thing you know, you'll be a woman going. about her day with a hair mask on? A hair mask on, yeah. And everyone would be like, your hair's so masky or whatever I'm, like, whatever it's supposed to be. Smooth and silky. Thank you. How long are you supposed to leave it on for? It says the longer, the better. So 12 hours.

Does it have a maximum? No. I got a found a candle the other day. Right. That had on it, just moving on. I don't want to hear another word of that story, frankly. I know. I've had a candle the other day that out on the back burn for no more than four hours. And I was like, understood. And then it said, for wax to melt correctly, must be burnt for at least four hours. So I was like, sorry, so at least four, but no more than four. So I have to... Put an alarm on. Put an alarm on. And the moment we have four hours, I have to blow this thing out. So that's why I was just thinking about your mask thing, being like, as long as you like, but how long? But how long? And is it, if I leave on for a month, is that too long? Yeah, a month. Yeah. Tell us. Okay. Right. Let's get into

the episode, even though I do want to hear more about candles, but I feel like... That's it, there's nothing more to say. There's nothing more to say about candles. It just makes me laugh every time I look at it and I think to myself, no more, no less than four. Like, that's dumb. That's dumb. It's so silly. So, working with friends. And what's yours of overall, do you enjoy? Also, none of this I know is directed specifically at me. It all is. Do you enjoy on the whole working with people that you are friends with? Do you never work with friends? Honestly, that's not true, but... It's definitely a tricky one because I've definitely Because you do think like, oh my God, you have a cool idea in the pub.

And then you're like, oh, my God, let's do this. And exactly like we're saying about the housemate thing, the best friends are not necessarily your best business partners. Yeah. And it's a whole different kettle of fish. And I'm sure people who live with housemates or partners or whatever in lockdown have been, you know, when you had to hear your friends or whatever doing their business calls and being like, oh, wow, that's what you're like at work, is it?

Yeah. Because you never get to meet their work personality. You only ever meet their fun personality. And so going into business with people. where you're like, oh, this is okay. And either that's somebody that you're like, they're suddenly become extremely officious and serious, but they're normally very fun,

or that they are too fun and not taking things seriously enough. Or, you know, it can definitely be an absolute mind field. I would say that before we started working together, we were, I would describe us as party friends. Yes, very much so. Yeah, I feel confident about that. You feel strongly about that. You're like, I thought you were my best friend.

No, when we saw each other at a party, He was like, yeah. Yeah, well, but you saw each other a party occasionally. We're like, oh, she's a bit of fun. Yeah. And then I moved on to seeing you every day for four years. For the best of my life. But Stevie was in the year above me at university.

I love to tell people because I'm the baby. Small baby. So therefore, Stevie was this, like, cool girl in the year above who you, you know, I'm sorry of Stevie, but you're extremely cool. Oh, right. You dress like a colourful lawyer. I dressed like an insane person. And I'm sorry for using ableist language.

like that. But I did. Yeah, but you did it in such a way and with such bravado that ever... Honestly, your reputation preceded you. Well, also the large bow on the front of whatever I was wearing preceded me. The size of the bows on my tabards and every part of sentence tells you I was dressed. Like, didn't own flat shoes for six years. No, she was a very tall girl who have seen Stevie in real life. And then she was wearing these colossal heels.

But I was incredibly intimidated by Tessa because I'd seen her in a play. and she was so brilliant that I was like, oh, I couldn't possibly be friends because she's too cool. So then what happened was is that when we actually did first properly meet, I was also like doing another show and I was a bit all over the place, but I was very like, you know, Tess has got this sort of air of being just very like, she says what she thinks and is very straight. And I was a bit frightened of her.

So I was just like, I'll just scurry around and do my lines and leave. And then from your perspective, that was incredibly rude. So just just two people who were just frightened of each other trying to operate in a small space. Yes, we were casting a four-person play together, and I suppose we both didn't speak a single word to each other that weren't our lines. Possibly that is literally exactly what occurred. Yeah, and then we went home and we're like, wow.

But I did then because I was in a sketch group and then we auditioned people in the year below when we left, and I was like, we have to audition Tessa. Like, Tesa goes has to be in the review. But, yes, it's funny how we didn't know, essentially we didn't know each of the low, Sidway. I think those are probably the best ones that you just, you vibe out. You've got good vibes, but you're not necessarily best pals.

And then you're like, we're cut from a similar cloth and we have similar ideals. Yeah. I would say if you're like, we're absolutely best friends and now we're going to go into business together. It's certainly, I wouldn't say no, but I would definitely go into that with your eyes open and with a clear like, okay, what do I think this person's failings are? Like, let's be open with each other about like where we think this. is going to. And that's almost impossible to do because in order to do that, you have to know how you work and how you would. So like, for example, I'm somebody that really stresses about dead. Like I have to hit a deadline and I get very stressed very easily. I'm working with

somebody at the moment, not as a, who is great, but we'll just sort of pop in with the odd thing and leave long pauses and silences within the working thing. And I'll be like, oh, I've been too much. It's actually just they've not got the same kind of work ethic as I have. So they're just not replying. Because I think they're not replying. So I'm like, maybe they're angry and I'm being too overbearing. And I will, but you've got to be so brutally honest with yourself about how bad you are.

Because if you're honest with yourself about your own failings, then you can communicate that to the other person and be like, just so you know, like, I might do this. I might do this. But like, don't see it like that. And so I need somebody who's very, very communicative to be like, I can't work on this today, but I'll work on this next week. That's incredibly difficult to know about yourself until, and I only know that because I've worked so much with you, with, like, other friends, and I know where I get stressed.

So that is, yeah, that's like almost 10 years of working with people that I know. Yeah. When we were writing the book and I was like, I've got to have an Excel spreadsheet. It's like, I've just got to, I've got to see the progress. Otherwise, I will not sleep. You know, and again, I don't think I dealt with that particularly well because I didn't communicate to you that I needed that for my own actual mental well-being. I was more just like, a bit of fun. It was like, no, you've got to actually be honest about these things. The most adult

thing you can possibly do is to be honest and not be embarrassed about needing to work in a certain way. So there's, yeah, pros and cons, because if you don't know someone very well and you just vibe, it's possible that you literally will not gel. So you've got to be aware that will be a constantly evolving relationship that if you don't gel immediately, you can then talk about this isn't working, or you don't have to start with this isn't working, but like, okay, so here are some things that would really help to make this work better for me. What would work better for you? And like, how do you want to work?

How can we make both of us work to the best of our ability? Because the worst is when I've got a friend who started a company with one of her closest friend and that completely crushed and burned. Because, like, they just didn't ever speak. Everyone just internalized all of their panic. As with, I think, 99% of these podcasts. us communicate. You know, if you're either, you're already working with a friend and things are feeling

bumpy and you don't quite know what to do about it or you're about to start a business venture or wherever you are in your friend and business journey, is like, have a good sit down and be like, this is where I'm at, this is what makes me very stressed and nervous, this is what makes me panicky. I do say a nice thing about you that we were having, we were having a nightmare. Stevie and I with an outside person. And our Stevie was like, let's have a lovely. bitch and I was like, I can't take it on.

I simply, and I put my headphones on at you and I was like, I'm putting my headphones on now. Yeah. And which wasn't very good communication on my part, but then I was very appreciative of you being like, I'm not going to bitch with you about it because I know you don't want to, but don't think I don't want to. And then like, we both know the issue, but I know you can't hold space. Oh, thank you. I can't hold space for this.

I know you need to, but I can't hold space for it. I don't, I don't want to. I'll collapse. Yes. I've got we've got to keep going thank you we can't talk about this right now yes difficult British off we go and then we'll discuss it in a in a bit thank you which again is not ideal communication tactics but at least I managed to get I think it was because you told me what you needed to do and you literally said I think

there one point you because I was like can we talk about the email we've just received or something and you were like I actually can't and it was like okay so from now on there was occasions where you did like go I've got to talk about and then that was fine You have to lead that. I can't just come in with 17 WhatsApps going, what the fuck? Because I was like, I know that we'd receive an email and I'd see the email.

And I was like, start the clock. In 30 seconds, there'll be, there'll be a stream of consciousness from Stevie. And I was like, I can't, I can't take it. I need to process this quietly. And then when I'm ready, I say, I'm ready to bitch about this now. And that's taken us, however many years.

So many years. And there's no way, I would have known that about myself at the beginning. And so it's that sort of stuff that you just have to be constantly, showing up to the communication process, it doesn't need to be a massive issue that. Look, see, we resolve something that actually has probably been causing drama for a lot, not drama really, but.

No, I think it does because I think just that example is very good because for years and years, we've won't do there in many different capacities. And there will have been times, I can't think of any specifics, but there will have been times when, like, we went for a meeting together or something with a TV producer, wherever came out, was horrific. And, or, like, there was somebody acting bizarrely in the audience, one of our gigs or something and I will have probably said stuff and not got anything back and felt like I'm being too much and I've been horrible and maybe I shouldn't have said anything because maybe I'm

you know what I mean? So I'll fill in the gaps and you'll quietly nod and put your headphones on. In about an hour I'll be ready to talk about it but right now I'm I'm processing. Yeah it's white noise. It's just white noise for me right now and I and I'll come I'll come round to my opinion in a bit but I haven't got one yet. So if you ask me for it, I don't know it and it all just feels a bit much. And again like that's such a specific. thing about our personal working relationship, but I think those are the kind of minutiae that you need to get into when you, you know, sit down at the beginning of this process and be like, okay, I think this is what my working style is like. I think this is something that you'll probably

struggle with with me, but I'll try my best to make this as easy as possible for you. This is the aspect of this work that I find really easy and fun and will come to me very easily. For example, when we're doing the book, Stevie, fantastic at the beginning, me just sort of wandering around outside, picking up stones and things. And I've been like, get, get in the Please, please, clear the deadline, please. And then as we hit the end, Stevie was like, I'm asleep now. I found a part. I was suddenly like, here comes the deadline.

And I just like really came into my own. The night before when we had to hand it in, it was like someone had animated Tessa in a laboratory and she became this kind of like, it was like her origin story. And suddenly there was like chapters coming in from all of the place. Chapters that didn't exist before, when I was arriving fully formed. Like everything was being formatted.

I was like, where did this come from? And I was like, and I, even I was thinking to myself, like, this is unhelpful for this to arrive so late in the game. And I'm sure must have been annoying for Stevie to have been dragging me for so long. I mean to arrive at the 11th hour. And that's the sort of shit that you don't know because you've never written a book before or whatever it is. You're personally going into business trying to do together. So it's just about as much as possible being like, okay, what is our shorthand going to be like for me to say, this is a thing that you're doing that I'm struggling with that does not mean I don't like you.

I just need this to change in our dynamic and I think we are really bad maybe it's a British thing who's to say what it means generational thing or whatever we're very bad at distancing and separating friendship and a small thing of your personal a small crippling aspect of your personality

but that doesn't mean I don't like you or that I want to stop working with you or that I don't think you're a nice egg I think you're a great egg this is a nightmare I think it's very important to if you want to continue a friendship and a colleghip. For example, we do see each other via Zoom, sure, but a lot of,

and we work together pretty much every week. So obviously, I then feel like I've seen you and hung out with you. So then what happens is when it's like, okay, so who am I going to like go for luncheon with? I'll pick somebody who I haven't seen every week. But actually it does mean that, but it's very easy. And I remember when we were doing the sketch group, it became very easy to not be friends, because you actually don't socialise because you're like, well, don't waste my precious socialising time with you because I see you every day, which I think is still legit.

It is legit in a time when time is so precious. 100.7. And also it's nice to, which I think that people lack a lot. It's like, you know, your friends used to be like friends from school or friends university or friends from work or whatever. That like you're like, I see everybody every day. And we've got this like good rapport and this is what friendship is rather than friendship being like,

we see each other every six month for a hotly scheduled old 45 minute lunch or whatever. And then there's so much like, how's work where it's nice to have a relationship with somebody where you don't need to ask those questions because you're completely up to speed with the season. Whereas some people are like, hey, what happened with that thing?

And you're like, from season one, we're on season seven. Like, and then it's like, oh, I can't be bothered to catch you up. You're just like, this is too much. Yeah. So yeah, it's so I think, yeah, lovely point. Number one, communicate. Number two, make sure there's like still space to be, make sure you are still friends now

and the business doesn't just take over and you aren't just this. It's like date night. Absolutely. It's like a couple who's been going out for a long time. It's like, and when you start going out with something, you're like, we're never going to be one of those couples have to schedule date night because every day is a date night,

and then four years down the line, you're like, we haven't had a date night in seven years. How do we? We've only been going out for four, so how does this happen? There's a lot of that. And so having, so also as well, I know that we're focusing on things like setting up a business or like more sort of creative and independent business working together situations but that also is the same all that these are the same as if you're in

an office together and your relationship within the office accepting and not going into it being like it will be the same as it was before no it won't because before you weren't working together and now you are so it's a completely different and knowing that will help you take all these steps like if there is a disagreement at work if your friend is your superior if you're your friend's superior yeah that completely changes the dynamic and it will change the dynamic if you just sit back and let it, it can change it negatively, but it can change it positively or neutrally. If you put things in place, you make sure that, like, you go for drinks after work, you include them in, like, your sort of gang of friends like they always were. And it's not like, don't ever let it

become the elephant in the room, I think, is the problem. And also, as well, we've said about being aware of your negative qualities. I think I'm actually really the harder one is being aware of the things that you do bring to the table, the things that you are good at, and be aware of those things and how you're helping the working situation, not just hindering it. Otherwise, you can start to just be like, and I'm the shit one of the business partners. Like, no, no.

That's very much me talking to myself there. But I know that my friend as well that went into the business. She just had this kind of reverence for the other person. Because obviously when you join and you want to work together, you want to, it's like any relationship, you want to fill in each other's gaps. So like the things that this person's good at

the things this person isn't good at, but this person brings this and this person can't, do that. And that's kind of the ideals, like yin and yang, the ideal partnership. But what that requires is a real attitude shift of being like okay with the fact that you're not bringing something to the table that the other person is and not feeling like inferior. And I think you've got to be able to talk about work stuff outside of work hours as well and not do that. You know, like that thing was like, we don't talk about it. It's like, well, that's our now. That's how we communicate. And that's actually part of our friendship now. So there's a lot of struggle sometimes with like, oh, but we only talk

about work. We used to talk about everything. You're like, well, you can talk about everything, but also you're also allowed to discuss stuff that happens in the office or with the business when you're going for a drink, because that's what you would be doing with other friends as well. And that's your common language now. Your common language has changed. And I think that can be an over-sensitive thing as well. We're like, oh, what do we talk about? Because we just sold that hot deal to Japan, and we can't talk about it now outside of the office. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about your hot deal in Japan. It is very tough. You don't have to force yourself and to be like, okay, we've left the room now. And now we only talk about love or...

Love. Peace. Love and peace. You know, we only talk about these things. We mustn't speak about anything else. It's like, it's okay. It's on your mind. It's still, you know, it's still been a massive part of your day. And I think it's just about understanding that those boundaries will shift, that the like relationship will shift, that everything, you know. And that's a thing like going into it excited, but eyes open and being like, oh, that's okay. That's... a surprise. Yeah. Didn't know they did that. Oh, don't know they did that. Do I hate it? Yes.

If I do, that's okay. I very tentatively on something very small, started working with a lover. That's a big no-no for me. It's a big no-no. And I would say, and listen, many people do it.

And God bless and good luck to you. And I've got absolutely no advice on the subject whatsoever. But, I mean, there was a lot else going on in this tangled relationship. But we tentatively side to say where to get is to feel,

so exciting the thing that we were going to do. And also it felt like, this is it. Like, we've hit the jackpot. Are we the creative? Are we the Tim Burton and Helen a Bonham carter? Are we hit? They are divorced. Like, oh my God. And they're divorced. It felt very exciting being like, oh my God, we're going to make this word. Like, this is so cool. Look at us go. And I mean, it's important to remember that he was a piece of shit. But we go, I remember going to this, like, first meeting. And he showed up, the very casual dresser. And he showed up, we missed like massive oversized blazer and I remember being like

what the hell is that like what? But I didn't feel like I could tease or say anything I didn't feel like I could do a tease it felt too vulnerable to like comment on but it was my first instinct of being like oh okay this is what you think work is putting on a massive blazer and then we go to this meeting

he does all the talking about stuff that should have been like my part of the thing to talk about and then they asked a question that neither of us were at all prepared for and was like, oh, an interesting question. And it didn't need like a moment's thought. I can't actually remember what it was, but it definitely was something I was like, oh.

And he immediately went, Tessa. Oh, no. And I was like, oh, you are a piece of shit. It's those sort of things that you're like, oh, that is poor actually. And I'm sure this won't happen to you because you're going into it with a friend and not a lover who's a piece of shit.

But like, if those sort of small things do happen, you don't have to be like, oh, this is it forever. You can be like, hey, I don't know if this is quite the right vibe of our, you know, talk about it. because I didn't talk about it, I just left. Well, if I may quote Mayor Angelo, and I think it's how my time I did,

when someone tells you who they are, believe them, and I think that's often used for many reasons. But I think it's best to when someone does that, what you did was you were like, I'm backing out of this, that's the right, correct thing to do. But also, I think people run into trouble when they see those signs and they go, oh, I'm sure they'll be fine when it comes to the big stuff.

You're like, knew it will get worse. Deal with it. early on. And either that's something that you can nip in the bud and discuss and deal with and you can both have a laugh about it and they won't wear the big blazer again or whatever. Or it's something that you're like,

I do think really, and this is again, we're talking with 10 years of experience here of how long it's taken us to be like, oh yes, listen to your gut. When your gut says something, don't be like, hush, hush, hush, hush, gut. If your gut is like, I think we should run really far, be like, okay, I need to, it listen to that.

Or not even as dramatic as that. Oh, this person struggles with deadlines. This person needs a lot of communication or is insecure about this part of the business or is really an ideas person but really doesn't write anything down. You go, okay, so, well, I love the ideas. So how can we facilitate this so that we can both function rather than just being like, oh, I'm sure when it comes to like a massive thing, he'll do the typing. You're like, no, he won't.

He won't. He's shown you exactly what he's going to do. He's shown you everything. Believe him the first time. And that isn't, yeah, don't have to be as dramatic as running away. it can be like, right, this, I need you to write this down and it's clear that you don't like to write. So what are we going to do? What's our plan going to be? Communication. Key. If you've had any past experiences where you've really struggled working with someone,

look at the things that happened and your response and like what you responded poorly to. Because you can never control what someone else, how someone else works, but you can fully control what you're like. Like you can, and as well, if you bring that to the table, that then encourages the other person to think about their working style and at least one of you is bringing this kind of communicative vibe because it's very I think toxic when two people are working together and they just don't they don't really understand this sort of stuff like how to how to gel and how to everybody can jet you can work with like anyone it you just have to do the work you have to put the work in in order to make that teamwork function yeah how are these two pieces the jigsaw are going to

fit together and any two pieces can fit as long as you are if we can do it anyone can as long as you're very clear about like where the holes are, what, you know, what everybody needs. And I think at the beginning of this, sit down and be very clear about like what you both want out of this. Yeah. I mean, if you just work in an office together and obviously it's just like, what do you want out of this to do the best work? You can remain friends and thrive within the office environment or whatever.

But even then it's like, do you want a promotion? Do you want to be the top of this company or just want to just make your money and go home and have a nice life? If you're working together and you're starting your own business, it's like, do I imagine this being a Futsi 100 company? or do I just want to do this little fun hobby and hang out with you? So if one person is just like, I thought we were just making soap

and having a good time and one person is, I'm floating us on the stock market then why haven't you done enough? So like be very clear about your ideals, what your hopes and dreams, what you want out of this, where you're good at,

what you're bad at, what the other person's good at, what you will find as a personal trigger point of like what's your things like, this is a thing that drives me up the wall and I will really struggle if you do this, you know, get all that out there. And then ultimately remember

that like, it's not that bigger deal. You'll be fine. Don't let this relationship come crashing and burning down. It's all a learning process. Everything is a learning process, yeah. A friend of mine who I had suggested did some work for me for something that is her job,

not just like come and be my housekeeper. And I was like, oh, can I pay you to do it for me? And she was like, we had a long talk about it. And then she was like, no, we're not. I don't think we should because I don't think I'm quite the right person for you. And I don't think this is a good idea for our friendship. and it wasn't like you're a nightmare.

It's just like this is not quite what I think is my level of expertise. I think there are better people for you than me and you're choosing me because of our friendship and I think we should keep our friendship separate. Perfect. What a mature. You know, so mature. A bit of communication to bring us home. Perfect bit of mature communication.

And otherwise we might have just gone into that blind and run headlong into the dark and what a pickle we'd be in. A massive pickle. So hopefully that helped and you now feel that you know a bit more about, well, hopefully Emily, that we've solved your issue there, your 1001 or 1004 AM issue. If you have any other episode suggestions that you think would be beneficial, please DM me, Tessa, or both of us at any time. Any time. I'm at Tessiem. Yes, 5.

Tessa's at Tessa Coates. I'm at Tessa Coates. The Gmail is Nobody Panic Podcast at gmail.com. The Twitter is at Nobody PanicPod. We're always available 24-7 of your needs, your hopes, your dreams. And do remember on this process that like you're always on a learning curve, you know. It's always working yourself out. You're always working other people out.

You're always working out what you personally need. So if things are rocky at the moment, talk it through and remember like, of course you don't have the answers. Like no one does yet, you know. You'll get there. You'll get there. You'll get there. See you next week. See you next week.

Bye. Bye everyone.