Nobody Panic - Still Panicking: How to Cope with Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Still Panicking: This week we look back at some of Stevie and Tessa's top tips for getting through the winter months.Feeling down when the nights get darker? Tessa realised she has SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder - a few years ago and, while Stevie doesn’t, they’ve both done a lot of intense googling, so take a look at whether light boxes work, going outside is really the key and how Tessa can stop crying all the time when it’s dark.Want to support Nobody Panic? You can make a one-off donation at https://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanicRecorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Photos by Marco Vittur, jingle by David Dobson.Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/nobodypanic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Carriad. I'm Sarah. And we are the Weirdo's Book Club podcast. We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival. The date is Thursday, 11th of September. The time is 7pm and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies. Tickets from kingsplace.com. Single ladies, it's coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September. At the London Podcast Festival. The rumours are true. Saturday the 13th of September. At King's Place. Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet. in full names today. Oh, and me, Tessa Coates, MBE.

Wow. That's a little gag there for any fans of, I'm a celebrity, get me out of here. Great. I have never watched it. No, but this one, I've never watched it either, but this one is in North Wales, literally 100 metres from my grandma, where my grandma lives.

Oh, wow. So we're so exciting that it's happening there, but there is a lady on there, Holly Arnold, who keeps saying her whole name and then saying MBE. So in the beginning when they were like, they're like, I'm Mo Farah, oh, I'm Shane Ritchie. And then she says, I'm Holly Arnold, MBE. You're like, okay.

Oh, dear. Someone should have stopped her, but it's too good. And it's too good. And then Anten-Dec keep being like, welcome back. It's me, Aunt McFarlane, OBE. Well, this episode is about, this episode is about sizzle effective disorder, sad, What a good name. It's a good name.

And there was a lot of high-fiving when that was created. Can you imagine? They were like, Jonathan, they were like, Jonathan, the acronym is, it's sad. So it's streaming. And it's something that, well, I mean, apparently it affects two million people in the UK and more than 12 million across northern Europe. So you're not on your own. If when the clocks go back, yes, when they go back, you start to feel. sad. Also, I really do think that regardless of whether you, it's a diagnosis or you have seasonal

effective disorder or you don't. I mean, I don't have it. I wouldn't say it's surded. But when I, the first day when it went dark at four, I honestly believe that has ruined my life. So I think there's, there's tips and tricks to be had for all, for all here, because it's too dark. And I don't know what to do about that. Conversely, I do have it very bad. And it's the sort, as with many things in life, many things that you just sort of, I didn't actually know there was a name for it. I just genuinely thought that's how everybody felt all winter. And it was a huge surprise to me that people didn't. That like, you know, I just really took it for granted to be like, yeah, this is how we all feel for five, six months of the year, right? And how does it feel? What do,

what happens? It's just like, well, thank you for asking me, Stevie. Your foot drops off. That's numb. That's the first symptom. No, it's a, wow. No, of course. it's not it's a it's just like a profound malaise it's just an intense winter blues you know it's like and and some people were like oh yeah I I feel that you know you that the feeling that you felt when it went dark that you just were like oh my god it's just that but constantly it's just a continuous feeling right in the same way that like a tree you just feel like a tree where all the leaves have come off and you're just a barren nothing tree and instead of being and instead of being like this is just part of the process and oh it'll be spring again and I'm just going to grab

and, you know, or enjoying any of the winter things, you're just like, I'm a barren tree and I'll die here. I can completely relate. I can see the logic in feeling like that because you just want a hibernate and it is harder to get up. It's harder. And also every night is like a sorry, is it always been dark at this time every single night. It's like, yes, and it has been for this season every year of your life. But I can't quite get over it. But I don't mind it so much. And I think, yeah, it must be very hard to feel like, it must feel a little bit like you've been sentenced because it's like, well, I can't do anything about it.

It's going to happen. It's going to get dark. It's going to get cold. And then I suppose, yeah, the sort of dread of it is unhelpful. Now, before we get into... Oh, yeah. God, I hear I was just relaying my plant analogies to you. No, I liked it.

No, I know you did. I thought I was an absolute top hole introduction. What is your adult thing this week? Um, Stevie Martin, uh, MBE, I've cut my own hair. That's what? Go up a bit. Sorry, we are actually looking at it. Yeah, no, I've not made a bob or anything and you can't tell. I just, um, and listen, it's completely crooked from this side to that. Oh, it is, yeah. That's the sounding. Okay, yeah, it's bad, isn't it? I mean, it's not bad. You haven't brushed this. I can't see the exact sort of line. I'm sure it's fine.

It's noticeable. Um, I just, as part of my, uh, um, I just, as part of my, uh, um, seasonal affected disorder, but mostly just, you know, you can't go to the hairdressers these days. And I feel, I read somewhere once there was like, a feeling down, give yourself, it's free, and it takes a few minutes, trim all your split ends off your hair and just give yourself a bit of a bit of a perk up. And I was like, not about, not a bad suggestion, she says, now one side of my hair. It's high risk. It's high risk, yeah. I've done a categorically a bad job, but nobody can see me, And it does look more healthy. It has got a bit of huts bar.

So I do recommend it if you've got long hair and it's feeling particularly bedraggled and you just look in the mirror and be like, oh, God. Do cut you cut an inch off or so. Either it's like, or inch from one. I've done a terrible job. It's awful and it's wonky. Have a go. Have a go, I say.

I don't regret it. And it does the end, you know, it does look. I do feel, it does feel healthier and I feel better. Lovely. And it distracted me from the global crisis for a few minutes. So, you know. Oh, yeah. Well, talking of distracting from the global crisis. What have you got?

My other thing is so lockdown one was the lockdown where I decided to just sort of buy quite a lot of clothes. I didn't really have the money for it. And it wasn't a great idea. Also, lockdown two is me left with all these clothes that I haven't been able to wear at any point, really, because they weren't, when it came to that small period of time where we could go out, I was, they're insane what I've bought.

And one of them is a pair of, so look, guys, wide-legged trousers. quite cool. Not as wide as I've bought them. Absolutely mad. So I bought them and then that night I went in the middle, like in middle of May or something. And they're really wide. I kind of, it's very difficult to walk in them. I, they're too long for me. I have to wear heels when I went, I don't wear heels. So I had to buy heels as well. Anyway, went to a Hendo, Zoom Hendo and thought, oh, I'll wear my nice new clothes. Played a game called go and find something in your house and whoever brings it back soonest wins, ran out, fell over, skinned my knee,

marked my beautiful trousers. They fell the floor, they've got a win. I was absolutely devastated, thought, well, I guess I have to throw them away, have never worn them, and they are nice. They're like nice trousers. Then discovered that dry cleaning exists. Yes, yes, okay.

That's for rich people. it obviously costs money but it's not I thought it was like oh well that's 250 quid down the drain wasn't 20 quid and pop them in got them back nice again now I'm not allowed to wear them and I can't play any games in them no that's okay I've learned they're not for games these are for work I'm a business woman very good it's a big discovery isn't it dry cleaning because I think Meryl Streep has her clothes dry cleaned in the devil wears Prada so you're like well that's for, that's only for you, you know. So I thought, okay, great.

So now, now I have, now I don't have to, like, throw things away whenever they look a bit sad. I can try nine pounds of the dry cleaners. Well done you. Yeah. If it's worth wearing, it's worth repairing. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's good.

Right. Seasonal affective disorder. Shall I just do the quick NHS website for anyone who's never heard of this? And they, yes. This is the, just the quick rundown of the symptoms. They can include a persistent low mood, a. loss of pleasure or interest in normal everyday activities, irritability, feeling of despair, guilt and worthlessness,

feeling lethargic, brackets lacking in energy and sleepy during the day, sleeping for longer than normal and finding it hard to get up in the morning, craving carbohydrates and gaming weight. And they don't have to be all of those symptoms, but it can be some of those. And it's if those are things that come on during winter and it feels related to the weather and to, they all feel part of the same thing, you've probably got SAD.

Yeah, and also isn't it like if it affects your life adversely? suppose things like craving carbohydrate, it's like, yeah, doing that now, babe. That's the thing. Sometimes those things, you're like, like, would like to go to bed and would like to eat past it. You're like, yeah, that's everyone every day. Well, that's not a symptom. Yeah, that's summer and winter.

But if it's only, you know, if you feel it in winter and if it is, if it starts to, you start to find that it's adversely affecting your life in terms of you might cancel things or you might not, you might be avoiding doing things. You might find yourself falling behind in work. you might struggle to maintain your normal routine because of this new kind of these new feelings and these new symptoms and yeah then you probably have sad so i will just barrel in with some of the things that some of the tips are very kind of like yes of course well that that would help anyone at any point but there is of course like these things work for they do work and there's

so there's one that really struck out because i don't have seasons of it seasonal affective disorder. But I did have this thing where I was really, really tired and having a lot of those, actually, those symptoms that you said, it just happened. It was in spring. I'm basically vegan, but I can't eat dairy. So I struggle sometimes, and I can't eat meat. So I was really low on vitamin B12. So I started taking vitamin B12 tablets, like, oh, you know, say, hey, you take like those of like mouth ulcers and stuff. And I'd be really tired. Like, not just like a little bit tired, like about four o'clock. I'm like, I actually can't be bothered lifting my arms. I'm just going to sit there. and it really helped.

And so now, actually the other week, I started to get tired again and then realise it was because I hadn't had the B12 supplements. So then got them again and now I feel so much better. So one of the things to do if you have seasonal effective disorder is to have a diet rich in foods like protein, simple carbohydrates, and vitamin B12 and D, which is what you, I presume you get them from sunlight. So yeah, protein, of course, that's always, like I've, if you're always, vegetarian or you're vegan and you're not like keeping an eye on your protein then there are loads of

like protein powders things like that to just give yourself a bit of a boost to make sure that you're like arming yourself against the the season as best you can because we kind of it's like there's like a there's like a constant viral tweet that's always going around that's like um me why am i so tired and sad my uh my brain can you drink water please and maybe eat eat something normal. Me, well, I guess it's one of life's great mysteries, you know? And it's like, yes, this is what we do all the time. So that's like the first thing to just look at your diet and be like, it's not being like,

go on a diet. This is not what I'm saying or not what anyone's saying. But like, just look at your diet and see and make sure that you're getting in everything that you can. It's really easy to sort of ignore, be like, oh, the things I eat aren't, they're just nice, nice, I put some nice things in my mouth. And my day is completely separate to that. Whereas really you have to be like, you know,

if you put diesel in a petrol car, it breaks down. If you put the wrong thing in the car, like, it won't work. And also it's harder because you're sad putting diesel in the cut. So you're all like blurry and foggy and you don't, and all you want to do is just like, oh, I'll eat some pringles. And because that's what you do to cheer yourself up. But the, and it's not like, hey, you need to start bulk cooking.

It just means that you will feel better. if you have like, you can still have like comfort food. And like, of course, if anything, lean towards comfort food. But that comfort food, if you're not getting like certain minerals, then just get a multivitamin. And I know there's lots of studies that say that multivitamins aren't effective or they are affected, lots of conflicting evidence. But like if we don't, it's like with the mask wearing with coronavirus,

like, well, if you don't know, then err on the side, err on the safe side and probably do it. It might work. Get one. The pointlessness feeling is really, really, really, part of it that you sort of look out the window and you go like, oh, oh, what's the point of anything? And then it's like, I'll just have this mashed potato again for breakfast. And then you're like, delicious. But you're like, is that what my body truly needs? Or do I need like

a lovely, you know, slow releasing carbohydrate with lots of fruit and vegetables and my vitamin B12 and a fresh salad and all of these sort of things? Like, is that actually what I, what I need and being like, I want the feeling of a hug in my mouth. But it's like, you can Get that. There's lots of lovely breakfast foods that will feel like a hug in your mouth. And when you, even with depression anyway, if you, it isn't seasonal, the first thing to go is your routine and your sense of like being grounded. And of course, if you're waking up in the morning and like you start off with like some Rolos, I don't know what I get. I went to Rolos, but I love Rolos. Of course, a lot of fun. But that destabilizes you a little bit because that's a,

you know and your brain knows and your tastewoods know and your digestive knows, that's a weird thing to be having in the morning. So you've sort of set yourself up to just feel slightly weird now rather than you have to see it almost as that's your, like what you eat is your, you know, it's kind of part of your medication for this. Like it's part of your arm for this. Absolutely. And you have to feel like your body is who you are nurturing with this, not yourself, not you, but in this moment being like I'd like some Rolos, that will make me feel happy for seven seconds. Being like, imagine those Rolos getting to your gut and all the cells in your body

being like, what have we got to work with today? What's this? And be like, it's a Rolo, sir. We just got one Rolo. And now she's crying. Oh, God. No wonder she's crying. What?

She expects us to run this body on a one rollo. Like, of course, just think like, what do they need the most? And of course you would provide, you know, such a nutritious, a nutritious smorgas board, you know, if you can just separate those things in your mind. You know, of course, when you're down, being like, just whip up. No, you're not whipping anything up. So, you know, it's very easy. It's just like pop some oats with some like plant-based milk and then a little bit of

a match chair. Oh, I don't know because I don't eat any of that stuff. But like, you know, okay, fine, that's too much. But is like those packets of ready-made porridge? Yeah, right. Who gives a shit? But it's still oats, right? So like things like that, we're like just convenience food is so fine, but it's just,

convenience food is a step up from, you know, like, oh, I'm just eating a row loaf for lunch and for dinner. Good nutrition is very classic. And it's also very, you know, it's very hard to do when you're sad. But there's, there's, you just have to constantly wear. I see it's incredibly hard. But I think it's just also the thing that you need to just switch your mentality from being like, I, I, I can't be bothered to make anything and I don't deserve anything.

and a rollo is what I need to being like I my job is to look after my body as best I can and therefore what do I what does it need and you wouldn't dream of choosing a rollo in that scenario so it's just about like that it's just about that that switch but obviously yeah exactly it's so it's so hard it's really hard it's just like it's like the other stuff you know work out you're like have you ever been depressed because I'm telling you right now there's no working out happening. However, you've found cold water swimming. Lots of people, and one of the big things is, is a seasonal affective disorder is triggered by lack of sunlight and the change

in the lack of sunlight. And light boxes have quite a mixed response. So if you want to buy a light box or you're interested in that, go to your doctor first because there are specific ones that are specifically used medically. You can buy any old shit online, but it might not even have the stuff in it that's helpful. And also, So it's not 100% clear where whether that helps anyway. But what definitely does

is just getting into, in the sun when it is there as much as possible, whether that's sitting next, like when you're working, making sure that you're working as close to a window as possible, making sure that you have a walk every day.

And that counts as exercise. So then you kill two birds with one stone. But like, yeah, while the sun is out, getting as much of it on your skin as you possibly can. I've got one of the loomie, I've got a loomie.

light thing? Oh, yeah, well, no. I would say no, but I do know people who absolutely love them and swear by them. So it's a totally personal decision whether that works for you. And I would say that I wouldn't,

if you're considering it, I wouldn't in any way close that off as an avenue. Please do go and try it and get one and speak to a doctor and think about it. For me, I just thought, that's a bright light. There's a company called SADA. It's a seasonal effective disorder Association, and they have approved a number of light boxes. So if you Google SADA approved

light boxes online, not Utah, because it didn't work for you, but then yeah, do that. Make sure it's Sada approved rather than just a light box from, you know, whatever shop. Like with literally everything, we just wish that there was a pill to, I wish that there was a pill I could take in the morning that meant that I was like hydrated throughout the day, but there isn't a touch of drink water. And it's the same with this. Like the lightbox is not going to solve it completely on its own, I guess. You have to do some other things as well. But it might really help. It's just so tiring being alive, isn't it? Well, there's that, yeah. It's just so boring.

You just got to do all this stuff every day. Feed yourself, brush yourself, wash yourself. So if you are trying some things and you feel that you really can't cope, then listen to our episode about how to go to therapy. So there's the NHS, of course, but there's actually lots of cheaper ways that you would think. So it's not like free or 500 pounds. And it might be really helpful to through, to, to talk to somebody. Because I think if, you know, get a light box, go for a walk. Does that really help depression? Probably not.

Won't do any harm. Oh my God. No harm at all. No harm at all. But it can be if it's really, really bad, a plaster on a bullet wound. And it feels like because it's just like sadness, people are like, oh yeah, I felt sad. But depression can be infinitely. worse than that. And, you know, and then for if you're just putting on the, if you're giving the

remedies that are just like, oh, I felt a bit down today. I had a walk now. I feel much better. Those, those remedies aren't going to, it's like if somebody had a bit of an upset tummy versus, you know, gastroenteritis, like they are of the same, they're of the same world, but that one is an extreme of another. So you can't just be like, oh, give it a rub and have a hot water bottle and that'll do it. Yeah. One thing that I found very interesting that is on the NHS website is there, is that while winter is a very tough time for mental health, throw yourself into anything about it that you do enjoy. So like, for example, yeah, it's freezing, but Christmas, you know, ice skating,

things like that, where it's like, that's not a Christmas thing, but that's like a fun, silly thing to do, like an activity that you can't do any other time of the year. I'm not saying to cure your SAD, go ice skating. I just mean... No, but it's a pumpkin spree. slice latte. You know, it's like, what are the things that are only here at this time of year? So rather than resenting this time of year, I can be like, oh, look, here are all these.

And I keep saying Christmas because that's my thing. But there are lots of other, like, elements of winter that are like, like a lovely wintry walk. These are little things, just little sparks of joy that are peppered throughout the season that you can hold on to. And that when you're feeling down, it might be even worth having like a little list of things that you can write when you're feeling a little bit on like a good day for a bad day, like a little toolkit for your bad day. So you're like, okay, what do I have? Right, well, I've woken about it. I feel like shit. Okay, fine. I've got my, in my notebook or my diary or just a piece of paper or on your computer. I've got a little list. And then you can just work through it

as a checklist, almost like you're a robot. Like, it's not up to you to judge this list. You have to do them. And then you'll find yourself coming back to yourself a little bit. Yeah. And that's such a smart idea of like write down all the things that are actually a list called things that are actually actually things that are actually actually that's right stevie yes no further no further questions things that are actually quite nice about winter yeah and don't put things on there that you person if somebody else might put polandex or something and you're like I hate that a hate a polandke don't stick that on otherwise there's just be a list of more things that you hate about winter yeah things that you truly like like a roaring log fire or you have specific things so that when you are down

then those things could be like practical things like okay what are you eating uh if you don't have anything in great that kills two birds with on stone go for a walk to the shop go and get some stuff it might take you four hours because you're really indecisive if you feel really down you're really foggy maybe on the list then you have suggestions of if if like eat your food and meals is quite difficult for you personally when you're feeling down you maybe yeah you have suggestions of things to buy at the shop that you've written when you're feeling a little bit better so that then you're like, then you don't even have to make the decision of what to buy. Then it's just like, I'm just going to shop to get this to make this. I'm making an omelette. That's what I'm doing.

I'm making a fry-up. That's what I'm doing. Other things that you have found to be helpful that then you don't have to think about. But yeah, of course, a list about the things that you like winter is also a nice uplifting thing to do too. Yeah, that's really nice. I was just thinking something, something lovely that somebody did for me once. And you can either do this for yourself, or again, part of this whole problem is like the, exactly the self-care thing. It's like you're, you you stop looking after yourself in a way that you would be able to look after somebody else. Like if someone else was going, was unwell in your house, whatever, you'd be right there with your chicken broth and your, you know, your baths and your hot flannel or whatever,

you know, whatever form of care. But like when it's yourself, you're just like, oh, no, don't deserve nothing. So if you know somebody else who is also has it quite SAD, and if you don't, maybe try to do it for yourself, I bet you know someone who does. maybe you can do this for each other. But my sister once made me a winter hamper for the beginning of winter that had in it like some blankets and some oranges and a nice thing of hot chocolate and like a hot water bottle. And she was like, here's the emergency box for the stuff, you know.

So when you're like, it's winter and you're like, that's okay, now we get to open the hamper. And so if you can get in a pair with somebody else and you both make each other a winter hamper that's like, go all this stuff in it. And then you're like, okay, here's the, here's the emergency. here's the break glass in emergency box of like, here are all my things. And, you know, treat it as like, this is where I go to in an emergency. Here is all the treasures in here. Here's the nice, here's the nice, healthy food.

Here's the vitamin D tablets. Here's the stuff. You know, here's the first aid kit, basically. Here's the nice, nice, wintery onesie that makes me feel like a big hug. Here's the winter onesy. Exactly. Here are the things that feel like a hug, you know, that aren't a hug. especially nowadays and especially now and I think everybody even if you have never experienced a hug a hug

you can believe it's nice no even if you've never experienced any sort of winter depression before and even if you used to quite like it you know there's also that tweet that's like um you know those those blood brother's thing of like everybody holding hands that's like my normal depression my pandemic depression my seasonal depression like one super team like you know everybody's having a rough winter even if in the you're like, it used to be my favorite thing in the world. It's like, you can't do the stuff. Like, yeah, I'm not loving it. Like, I have to say, and I do, winter's my, I do like winter the most.

I come into my own. But I can only come into my own. You love dark colours. Well, yeah, but I can, I realise it's very much a style based. I can only come into my own if I'm allowed to wear like very dramatic coats. If I can't, then I don't know who I am. It's like a naked mole rat running around the flat being like, why am I great? Yeah, but I have decided if it's helpful, um,

me being the colour of off-milk has been quite disturbing. I decided just out of the blue last night. I was like, I'm just going to like put fake tan on. Like, who's stopping me? Well, my sheets will be weird, but like, I don't care. I'm going to make myself feel a bit more. Yes, okay, maybe we shouldn't put so much stock on how we look. And, but actually, if that does help, then bollocks to it.

Like, if you're going to do it. Like, why don't get some bronzer out. Yes, and that's the thing. Trim your own hair. Give yourself a haircut. Paint your nails. Look after yourself. get some fake tan on.

You know, my housemate cat when I would come down the stairs every year when I'd come down the stairs in the beginning of spring, she'd be like, do a double take and be like, oh yeah, I forgot you were quite nice looking. You know, like, she'd be like,

you've looked absolutely awful all winter. And part of that is just like your colour goes and your, I'm not going to say your sparkle, but like the light sort of goes out of you and you... Again, this is very much seasonal effect of sort of, like, I just... The sparkle goes and the light goes out from your arm. I was like, that's not necessarily what happens with me, but I'm just saying.

No, sorry, okay. For me, it feels like the light goes and my skin is grey. But then also, I wasn't, then I would just stop wearing makeup. My hair was just in a bun with my hat over the, with my woolly hat over the top. I'd be having my half bath, miserable. Oh, yeah. I wasn't doing, I wasn't doing anything to help myself. You know, once a stupid boyfriend came home and I was working by candlelight with fingerless gloves on.

And also this was the phase when I wore just like 18 summer layers on one on top of each other. Yes. And I had my big stuff. The four dress season. Four dress. Just four cotton dresses makes one winter dress. He came home and said I look like the pigeon lady from Mary Poppins. And I was, you know, I was like, that is, that is not on.

But it was true. The thing is, it was true. And so you've got to try and you've got to be like, shape up, kid. Come on. Yes. Let's put our proper clothes on. Let's brush our hair. Let's put some makeup on. Let's try and face the day and not just wither, you know. Yes, let's try not to wither. Just like a plant in, it might be bald because its leaves have come up, but it's still trying. It's still there.

It's trying. Look after that plant. You wouldn't just throw it away. You'd be like, it's coming back. And I'm just going to take care of it while it's not thriving. But it's, you know. Well, I feel a bit more ready to look after myself, Stevie. That's good. That's the main thing. I'm going to go make a nice lunch now. And I, like, maybe brush my hair, put some clothes on for example. She's been nude this entire time. I've done a very good job of coping with it. Yeah, you've done your best. Thank you for taking care of me.

But yeah, pair up if you've got someone else with this. Take care of each other in a way that you maybe can't take care of yourself. Yeah, take each day as it comes and have your little toolkit for when you're having a bad day. Make sure that you've got your bases covered at the things going into your body. are helpful. So my fellow sunflowers who are dropping off the vine, come on, come on. You can do it. Get back on that fine.

That's my tip. Come on. Come on. Come on. Have a good. Also, like, you know, be aware. It's fine to feel down. Like we're saying, like millions of people, millions of people.

And also way more now during this year, having the exact same things as you're not weird and you're not alone. And you just have to look after yourself as best. you can. And sometimes you think you are. I know you're looking like, oh no, I haven't been looking at myself. I could do a little bit better because you deserve it. And if you have, if you have a friend or a partner who's going through this and you yourself cannot understand or relate to what they're doing, experiencing, say to them, okay, what would you say to me if I was going through this? And so rather than you just saying, endlessly sort of caring

for somebody and being like, it's okay. And, you know, say like, okay, what would you say to me? And you'd be surprised at that person's ability to be like, I'd say, okay, come on, let's get you this, this, this and this. And how, and once they've said that out loud, it's a real mental shift to be like, oh, okay. So I do know what to do. Hopefully that helped in some way if you are feeling a little bit down around the winter period. And if you have any suggestions for episodes, then please email us. Nobody Panic at gmail.com. We would love to hear from you.

And I'm at Stevie MESA 5. I'm at Tessa Cote. I was just your winter period thinking, can I tell you my grandma's favorite joke? Yes, please. She got really drunk at the Christmas table once and then she doesn't drink. And then said, okay, this is just for the girls, just for the girls. But everyone was listening. And I was a teenager at the time.

So I was like, oh my God, if this is going to be a rude girl thing, I'll die. And then she said, Tampax. And I was like, yes, it is. It's the worst thing I can imagine. She said, Tampax have just brought out a tartan tampon. It's just for the Christmas period. Very good. Good, Grandma.

Very good. Smash now. So, look, how can we be sad when there's jokes like that out there? That should have been our top tip. Buy a joke book and just read it. A joke book. Depression 101, come on. Have a good week and look after yourself, guys.

Look after yourself. Come on.