Nobody Should Believe Me - Case Files 08: Jesika Jones Part 3 with Derek Jones

Episode Date: December 12, 2024

Welcome back to the 3rd installment of our 4-part series on the Jesika Jones case. In this episode, Andrea is wrapping up her conversation with Derek Jones. Derek recaps the fallout after Jesika’s lies finally start to unravel: the frustrating journey of working with the DA on the case, Jesika’s sentencing, and how his kids are doing today. Stay tuned for the final episode next week, where Andrea is once again joined by Detective Mike Weber. *** Links/Resources:  Preorder Andrea and Mike’s new book The Mother Next Door: Medicine, Deception, and Munchausen by Proxy Click here to view our sponsors. Remember that using our codes helps advertisers know you’re listening and helps us keep making the show! Subscribe on YouTube where we have full episodes and lots of bonus content. Follow Andrea on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea's books here. To support the show, go to Patreon.com/NobodyShouldBelieveMe or subscribe on Apple Podcasts where you can get all episodes early and ad-free and access exclusive ethical true crime bonus content. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s MBP Practice Guidelines can be downloaded here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

True Story Media ex-husband Derek. The details of this case are just astounding and I'm so appreciative of Derek for coming on to share his experiences. Being able to talk to other people who have personal experience with this really remains one of the most rewarding parts of my job. We would love to know what you think of these Case Files episodes and if there's anything in particular you would like me to cover in a future episode. And I wanted to tell you, you can now leave comments on individual episodes on Spotify. So that's a fun way to get in touch. And also you can always email us at hello at nobody should believe me.com. If you'd like to support the show, you can subscribe on Apple podcasts or Patreon,

where you also get our subscriber exclusive show, Nobody Should Believe Me After Hours, which is the twice monthly show I co-host with Dr. Bex. You also get episodes early and ad-free as a subscriber. And for the first time, we will have the entire season, our upcoming fifth season, ready to binge at launch over there on January 2nd. We are working our buns off on wrapping up these episodes right now. And let me tell you, I think you're going to want to binge it. And if monetary support is not an option, commenting on Spotify, leaving us a review on Apple, shopping our sponsors, and telling friends about the show are also things that help us out a great deal. Now, here's the episode. Well, friends, it's 2025.

It's here. This year is going to be, well, one thing it won't be is boring. And that's about the only prediction I'm going to make right now. But one piece of news that I am excited to share is that the wait for my new book, The Mother Next Door, is almost over. It is coming at you on February 4th from St. Martin's Press. So soon! I co-authored this book with friend and beloved contributor of this show, Detective Mike Weber, about three of the most impactful cases of his career.

Even if you are one of the OG-est of OG listeners to this show, I promise you are going to learn so many new and shocking details about the three cases we cover. We just go into so much more depth on these stories. And you're also going to learn a ton about Mike's story. Now, I know y'all love Detective Mike because he gets his very own fan mail here at Nobody Should Believe Me. And if you've ever wondered, how did Mike become the detective when it came to Munchausen by proxy cases, you are going to learn all about his origin story in this book. And I know we've got many audiobook listeners out there, so I'm very excited to share with you the audiobook is read by me,

Andrea Dunlop, your humble narrator of this very show. I really loved getting to read this book, and I'm so excited to share this with you. If you are able to pre-order the book, doing so will really help us out. It will signal to our publisher that there is excitement about the book and it will also give us a shot at that all-important bestseller list. And of course, if that's simply not in the budget right now, we get it. Books are not cheap. Library sales are also extremely important for books, so putting in a request at your local library is another way that you can help. So you can pre-order the book right now in all formats at the link in our show notes. And if you are in Seattle or Fort Worth, Mike and I are doing live events the week of launch, which you can also find more information about at the link in our show notes. These events will be

free to attend, but please do RSVP so that we can plan accordingly. See you out there. Calling all sellers. Salesforce is hiring account executives to join us on the cutting edge of technology. Here, innovation isn't a buzzword. It's a way of life. You'll be solving customer challenges faster with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be. Let's create the agent-first future together. with agents, winning with purpose, and showing the world what AI was meant to be.

Let's create the agent-first future together. Head to salesforce.com slash careers to learn more. And that's when I really got in touch with Detective Weber, who I will say, first off, he's a godsend. Love that man to death. He contacted me the next day after all this came out. And he's telling me, you know, hey, watch for these types. This is the type of behaviors they'll do. You know, this is what she said and everything.

And I'm still in a shock at this point. I'm like, you know, did this really happen? Like, I was still, my mind was blown it must have felt like like you're suddenly in a horror movie right like it's just like you thought you're in a normal movie and now you're just like oh my god i'm in a horror movie and i didn't know it exactly that's what it felt like it was like your life just completely did a you know 180 it's like what is going on and they go and interview her a couple days two or three days later and come to find out. I also found out that she had two other empty prescription bottles in her purse or not empty.

There's two prescription bottles in there, both of them, which she had gotten filled, washed at the Cook's pharmacy while she was in there. One was a 30 count and one was a 60 count the 30 count was empty and i think the 60 count had like i think i want to say 15 pills left that disappeared in three three and a half days oh my god oh she got them filled while she was there so they knew oh my god um she said that she only gave you know one or two to the youngest while they were in there but we really don't know how much she gave her of those come to find out she'd probably given her roughly about i want to say it was close to 48 adult benadryl in those three and a half days um so that's why she was so when she was down she she was really down. Apparently, all this time that I thought I was losing her, she was being, come to find out, the eldest one, she was hiding this medicine under the bed or why she was doing this.

Come to find out she was given the twins clonidine during the day so they would sleep. That's there was two empty bottles of clonidine under the mattress. And so I don't know exactly what all she was giving her. Supposedly, she was giving her some of her headache medicine too which was the oracet i knew that the oldest took that so when we went and saw dr kaufman she's like hey i want you to get with her the oldest is neurologist um but i think it's best that we start trying to wing her off her medicine the oldest oldest one. She's like, cause I don't think she needs any of it. So I got with her neurologist and she, they're like, yeah,

start weaning her off a month later. Actually, I take that back. Two weeks later, no medicine. And to this day, she is only grown and blossomed. She missed out on a lot of her childhood. So this was all happening in June. We was on our way back from Thanksgiving and she tells me we get to talk in, you know, the twins are in the backseat asleep and she's up here talking to me and she's like, we get in the whole subject and about the whole CPS thing. And she's like, you know, kind of upset with me and all, but then she's like, dad, I want,

like, she made me do this. I'm like, made you do what? And she's like, she made me tell CPS that she was gone to dollar general. I can't remember if she was going to get bread or whatever. And while she was gone, the, the youngest had gotten into the medicine. And I was like, yeah, that's that was the story. She's like, that's not what really happened. I was like, well, what really happened? She said we were we she was there. The youngest, we were all in the same room. She was sleeping and had left a pill bottle out and the youngest had got it she's like i noticed she was acting off but i didn't know any different she's like then we fell asleep and we woke up

she was acting really strange like out of it and just doing crazy things and then that's when jessica saw the pill bottle and was like oh crap, crap. And she's like, she called the non-emergency number, poison control. And they're like, you need to take her in to get her checked so they can pump her stomach. And she's like, that's when she told me I needed to tell them this story. Otherwise, I was going to be taken away from both of y'all. And I would never see y'all again. And so that's why I did that. I didn't know better. I said, baby, I'm not mad at you. Like you didn't know better. You're a kid. She's like, you know, I knew that she had two

boyfriends on the side. I knew that she's like, she made me keep all these things secret. While you two were married. Yes. She's like, she made me keep all these things secret, you know, otherwise it would cause, and I would lose you. And she's, you know, she'd tell me stories about how she had her go get money from people saying that, Hey, can I have money to go get me this? And then bring it back to her so that she could use it. There was a holiday right before all this came out and we went over to the grandmother's house just because uncle and dad were cooking burgers. And so the oldest one tell, you know,

supposedly the oldest one had started our time of the month. So she's, she tells me later on, you know, that that's not what happened, that Jessica was wanting some of the grandmother's headache medicine. And so she had the oldest one go in there and take to the other back to her grandmother's bathroom, take pills and bring them back to her. And I'm like, oh, so she had you still in medicine for her too. And she's like, yeah, she tried to have me do that a lot. And I was like, I'm so sorry, baby. Like, I'm so sorry.

I feel like, and at that moment is what, when it really hit me hard. Cause I was like, I failed my kids as a parent. I failed as a dad. I did not protect them. And it was hard on me for the longest time for a while. And, you know, Weber is, you know, he's the one that helped talk me through it and he's like they're such master manipulators and narcissists that they are very good at covering it up and you you can't be upset at yourself it's not something that you believe you can trust this person and

why would they ever lie about this and or that even this is even slightly going on. I was like, I know it's just as a parent, when that came out, it was like, I failed them. I didn't protect them, you know? And it was really tough for a while because I felt like a failure as a, as a dad. And did you, at some point you had a conversation with another dad who'd been through a case? Right after that, I did. And he talked me through it and he said, you know, I went through the same emotions. And this is George Honeycutt, right?

Yes. I actually talked to him the other day when all this, the sentencing came out and everything to let him know that i had to work through that because as time went on i was like you know i there's no way for me to see it she was very good about telling one person one thing and the other person another and in a way that it would never get back to the two even if the two talked it would could never like she was a perfect liar. I mean, she had it down to a T, especially if you were right there with her. Oh, yes. Yeah.

I remember thinking with my sister. So there's a couple of things I want to be sure I say to you. I know this feeling so well. I remember feeling like I could get away from her and kind of start to, like, wrap my heads around the facts. And then I would go back to her and be like, what about this? What about this? What about this? And, like, while I was in person talking, it was almost like reality would just become distorted.

And I would kind of leave the conversation being like, oh, okay, I guess that made sense. And then, like, it didn't make sense. But it's just, like, you couldn't, it was like, I guess that made sense. And then like, it didn't make sense, but it's just like, you couldn't, it was like, I couldn't even hold on to reality when I was with her. Like I couldn't hold on to what I knew about reality when I was actually sitting with her, when I was actually talking to her.

Nail on the head, I couldn't, perfectly, yes. It was like, when I look back at it now, like in reality, it was like, like when I look back at it now, like it, in reality, it's like, why didn't I catch things sooner? You know,-year-old. And if I found out something horrible had been happening to them under my roof, I'm sure I would go through all those same emotions. And I think that's really normal. And as I'm sure you know from talking to Weber, who's been through more of these cases probably than anyone and has seen how people do react in these situations, you did do the right and protective thing and you did protect your kids. I mean, I can tell you like this situation in my family has been going and my sister's never been held accountable despite two investigations and despite years and years

and years of incidents with several different kids. And her husband has stood by her through all of it. And it does not matter what evidence you put in front of that man, video evidence, piles and piles of records, multiple investigations brought on by multiple hospitals. He will defend her. It doesn't matter. As many people, unfortunately, who will go down with the ship as will do the hard thing and the right thing and protect their children. And I can tell you that my niece and nephew have suffered. My niece has almost died. It's like it's not an automatic thing. You would think.

You would think. I think being in your position, you know how that feels. You know what it's like to be confronted with that information. You know how horrified you were. you know you did the right thing. It's really hard to envision how someone could be presented with compelling evidence and do the wrong thing, but many of them do. And they become, I think, not just enablers of abuse. I think at a certain point they become part of the abuse, right? They're the people who are contributing to it, right? And you can see how this goes.

I mean, it's like anybody who questions them becomes the enemy. And so, you know, if the dad of the kids is not protective, there's nothing anyone else can do. You know, unless there's a successful criminal investigation, which unless Mike Weber shows up, you know, and unless that you have the right DA, I mean, the police in my sister's case did do a pretty thorough investigation, but it just was, you know, and that's like a whole other story. But I just, I wanted to say that to you because like you did do the right thing. And I know this is very fresh, like this all just happened. So I hope that like, you know, as you go forward, and I know you've connected with some other people who've been through cases, and you know, George Honeycutt, who's wonderful.

And, you know, I think that's why it's so important to talk to other people is because like, you do need that perspective, like you did do the right thing. And there isn't any way you could have known. And we all trust the people, we trust our partners, we trust our sisters, we trust our family members and our friends, like, you can't, you can't go through life not doing that. And I think that is one of the hardest things is that like you get out the other side and now you can't trust people the way that you used to. And that's, that's a whole other challenge that you now have to deal with. But like, I just really want to say that to you, like this story, like you did the right thing and you did it right away. You know, you didn't require months of convincing. You didn't require another investigation with another child. It's really like you were protective and

your kids are lucky to have you. I think, I think honestly, what helped me really catch on is everything I'd already been through. And once I started getting clear of the being upset with myself right away, I started coming out of my depression and everything, everything, it all started adding together. And I, you know, it hit me and it's like, I've got to do whether I failed my kids or not. I, you know, I didn't do my best to protect them, but from this point forward, I'm going to make sure that I never fail them again. I'm never going to, you know, I'm going to protect them to the best of my ability. And I want to give them the best childhood that I possibly can, because they endured something that 99.9%, you know,

most people don't even know, or something that kids shouldn't have to go through for somebody else's attention, for somebody else to have attention or want the, you know. And I look back and I believe that's what most of it was. She wanted the attention. You know, we would do the epilepsy walks and stuff and we would they would be entered into them. And she was looking in to make a wish. And it was it was for the attention. And I'm like, I never wanted attention in my life. Even if I did, I don't think I could want it to the point of hurting a kid, my own kid.

There's never anywhere in a million years I could see myself harming one of my own kids, much less any kid for my own well-being. And that's what it boils down to. But the longer it went on, the more clear I got and the more I just wanted to. Really, to this day, I want to do everything that I can to help bring awareness. And even if I can just help two or three kids, that's two or three kids that get that much more of their childhood back. It hurts me to know that anybody goes through this, you know, kids don't deserve it. And looking back on it, that was the hardest part. Like with the oldest one is she knew the more it went on, like the older she got a something, you know, I don't feel like I need this medicine, but mom says

I have to take it or this is going to happen. You know, she had told me about an incident. The only time that I really thought I saw her have a where I got more of a glimpse of a seizure. She had had a shoulder injury and had been bothering her and started freaking out. And apparently what I was told was it was from the pain of that that threw her into a seizure. So because she started having a seizure, she gave her the rectal medicine. It's like the rescue meds and come to find out afterwards, the oldest told me, she's like, no, she gave me a couple of pills that it helped for the pain. And I didn't like the way it made me feel. I don't even, I don't know what it was. And she's like, so I, I didn't even know. I didn't like the way it made me feel. I didn't know where I was. Like it just,

it was making me just feel weird. And I was just, it made me shake. And I'm like, oh, okay. So I'm like, I am so sorry, sister. I wish I'd have known. She's like, you had no way of knowing dad. Well, and she was, you know, you kind of mentioned this before of like you know they are such good manipulators and they have this way of like telling one person one thing and telling another person another thing and then sort of like and especially when you're talking to kids who are obviously very very much under their mother's influence but with like her older daughter you know she's and this is something we've heard from survivors a lot right is that like their parent is telling them you you really are sick,

but you need this because of this thing, or you'll die, you know, or you have to tell the doctor this, or you have to, you know, lie about this, or do this other thing, because otherwise, you know, you'll get taken away from me, or someone will take, you know, and really just make them really fearful of telling the truth. And they sort of have this, yeah, like thing of like, they're making sure that people don't, you know, their kids don't say what's really happening, because they're terrifying them of what will happen if they do. So it's really, really sad. And, you know, and that was the part that hit me is the oldest one, there was a lot of sports that she wasn't allowed to play because, oh, she had, you know, these restrictions because of,

she might have seizures and the heat might make her have them or she gets hit just right. It might make her have them. And so there was a lot, she missed out on most of her childhood, you know, granted she still has some, she's now a teenager, but she didn't get to experience going and staying the night at friend's house and having those sleepovers, slumber parties and everything like that. And so I'm just trying to give them the best life that I can now. You know, and as all that came out, then it moved into the DA's office. And that was a struggle within itself. That was the next battle.

Like so worried about my sister. You cannot marry a murderer. That was the next battle. The only investigating I'm doing these days is who shit their pants. Killer message to you yesterday? This is so dangerous. I got to get out of this. Based on a true story. New season premieres tonight at 9 Eastern and Pacific. Only on W. Stream on Stack TV. BetMGM is the best place to fuel your football fandom on every game day with a variety of exciting features. BetMGM offers you plenty of seamless ways to jump straight onto the gridiron and to embrace peak sports action. Visit BetMGM.com for terms and conditions.

Must be 19 years of age or older. Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. Gambling problem? For free assistance, call the Connex Ontario helpline at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Yes, she gets arrested. Weber gets a warrant together. Then once she gets arrested, she gets bailed out and gets sent to the DA. And from there, you know, Weber told me, he said,

you know, it can take time. These things aren't just a few months and we're done. I start out with one DA. Then apparently she moves offices so I get a new one. The first one I had, she would stay in contact. She's like, hey, just checking in any new news that you've heard. This is where we're at right now. The new one, I heard from him when he called me to tell me that he was my new DA. And then I didn't hear from him for another six, seven months once I started really calling him. Wow. He wanted to, at first it was, you know, these types of cases are hard to try and this very well could end in probation. You know, I just wanted you to be prepared. You know, we got to have, we got to have enough facts and everything. And he was wanting to really play it off. Like it was a probation case. And I'm like,

I I'd been doing some research on the side and I joined a group for other people that have gone through this or going through this. And, and I'm like, I know that a lot of this doesn't in probation. I know that a lot of them walk away and the ones that don't, they get a couple of years. I know that, but I know that we also have a lot of evidence in this one. Yeah. This case is actually quite a lot more straightforward than a lot of cases we talk about. Like the, the induction part and the poison part is like, there's blood tests and they found the pill. It's like, they have a lot of like much more clear cut evidence than sometimes you sort of have something where, yes, the overall picture, if you're able to look at that, then that is very clear that there's abuse. But you don't have like this incident that people can just easily wrap their heads around.

Like she was poisoning the kids. She was giving them, you know, 48 pills of Benadryl, what have you, and causing these symptoms. And they could have died as a result. Like it's a very straight line and i know you know with many of mike's cases mentos and by proxy cases they it's not quite that straight right so it is it did have that going for it well the you had her admittance to it yeah right because she made some omissions during her interview with weber yeah you had the evidence in the purse you i mean she straight up said she did you know right strong case yeah yeah and you start getting all this stuff adding up more and more but it was almost

like the da was uninvolved it was just it was another case now granted i know they're busy i know they got you know big caseloads but or big. But it was almost felt like for the longest time that it was thrown on the back burner. You know, again, another continuance, another continuance. It just kept pushing out and kept pushing out. And I'm like, hey, why do we keep pushing out here? And I was giving him names that people that were close and I thought may be beneficial. They had information and come to find out he wasn't, I was finding out he wasn't talking to these people. And so at one point I had had enough.

So we'd got her, she went in there and she open pled guilty. They'd offered her a plea deal of 10 years. I knew she wouldn't take that. She thinks she's walking away with probation. So open plead means you're pleading guilty, but you're not agreeing to the sentence they're offering. You're just going to say, I'm pleading guilty and it goes to sentencing. Is that basically? I think so. She said no to the plea and she went in and said, I'm guilty. But to open plea, she didn't want a jury trial so she pretty much open pled

guilty to the judge where once they do that they do what they call a psi uh pre-sentencing investigation so they pretty much they have another investigator go through a context everybody and he writes down he's neither for the defendant or the victim. He's for the judge. And what he does, he puts this story together for the judge and he's not trying to make one side look better than the other. He's putting it together and then putting what he has seen from it and what he thinks. And pretty much that's the whole trial for the judge. So you don't have to go in there. Who does this? Is this this law enforcement? This is a DA that does that or that's the whole trial for the judge so you don't have to go in there

who does this is this this law enforcement this is a da that does that or that's law enforcement so it was a police officer he works with the judge you can still bring people in but majority of it's done so that it's not two three hour full day two day case whatever it's normally in and out 30 45 minutes great because they're not trying to get to the guilt or innocence verdict so it's not like the full jury trial that we think of like law and order it's like it's sort of a pared down process yeah he's putting uh he's putting pretty much the whole scenario together for the judge the judge can read it before he walks in and so i'm in communications with this PSI investigator.

I'm not going to use his name, but he's a godsend too. That guy really goes above and beyond for his job, for the work he does. And he put in the time and the effort. And this guy right here, Weber will Weber praises on this guy. I mean, this guy, he kind of he didn't go through the same situation, but they had, you know, similar but not similar situations. So he kind of understood a little bit. And, you know, he was like he talked to my oldest and he was very, you know, professional and just very calming to her. He got her to talk and, you know, he's like and during her investigation, he's like, hey, you know, once this is all done, your mom may or may not end up going to jail. But if she does, I don't want you to turn around and blame yourself for this. And she she she's like, hey, I hope it is my fault. I don't want her to be able out here to hurt any more kids.

And he's like, that right there says a lot about her. He said, that's a very strong kid. Yeah, that's a brave kid. But he went above and beyond. And so he's doing his investigation. So she's out on bond right now, right? And she breaks her bond. Come to find out she, her bond was she wasn't supposed to be around any persons under the age of 17 at any given time. Come to find out she broke it.

And she was around kids had gotten this new boyfriend down South and apparently presented a nurse's badge down there and, you know, telling them that the court date that she had to come up here to was because of something I'd done, yada, yada. So she gets caught for breaking her bond. I'm like telling the DA's office, is there like anything we can do to like pull her bond back now? Like a bond revocation or something like that? Like she broke it. Nothing was ever filed by the DA's office to revoke the bond. And this is, you know, we know from talking to Weber that she was also poisoning other people's kids during this period. In fact, like it's not

just that she had broken her bond conditions. Like this seems like such a clear example to me of like someone who is dangerous to the community right i honestly i feel like and more and more that it came along i felt like she was searching for men with kids so when they originally booked her in on the first the very first time they booked her in not so she was being charged for a class a felony, first degree felony. And then that was on the youngest one. And then the other twin and the oldest one were each a misdemeanor. When they booked her in the very first time, they accidentally booked her in on the misdemeanors.

So when she broke her bond, she got out for $100. Oh, my God. got to bail out so she got out and i'm starting to feel like this da that i have he's it had gotten to the point where when the cases were getting the court dates were getting moved he wouldn't notify me about the date of the court being moved we were watching online to find out. We would know. And I'd call him and be like, hey, the date got moved. Yeah, yeah, I just saw that. I was going to let you know that, you know, I saw that the other day. And I'm like, I never hear from you. But it was, oh, you know, sometimes too much is, I'm like, hey, this person right here, you need to talk to. Are we going to call these people from down south up? These went the mom of the children down

there, you know, the one I'm wanting to. And he's like, well, you know, sometimes too much can be more harming than not. And I'm like, are we not even going to just discuss it? And it more so once she pled open, pled guilty, it felt like it had gotten to the point where it felt like, hey, we got her to plead guilty. Now we're just going to let it be how it is. She gets what she gets from that point. And so I was like, no, I've had enough. I was mad and I called his boss and his boss, you know, reassured me. He's like, no, he's very, he's very into this case. You know, he comes to me asking about it all the time, but I'm going to get involved on this one too. And I'll sit in on it from that point on. He was the only one I talked to.

Fast forward when we had the court date for the sentencing. The other D.A. that I had wouldn't even say a word to me. We went in two or three days. So he was mad, presumably, that you went over his head you you could you could tell very very clearly because two or three days before that court date we went in for the pre-hearing to go over like you know everything he didn't say one word to me then he wouldn't even look at me and when i left he wouldn't even he didn't even the other two shook hands, the investigator for the DA's office and the DA I was dealing with now, they both shook my hands. He didn't, he didn't even come to shake my hand.

And so I'm like, okay, okay, that's fine. Like you can be upset, but I'm fine with that. Be mad at me all you want, but I'm going to do what I need to do and what I have to do to get the justice for my kids that they deserve. You may not have seen, you may not see it that way, or you may think I'm going to do what I need to do and what I have to do to get the justice for my kids that they deserve. You may not have seen, you may not see it that way, or you may think I'm being too much, but I know what they had to endure. And I'm not just going to let you lay down just because she pled guilty now. Well, I've seen what else she can do. Well, come to find out, she breaks her bond again. A second time. A second time. Just three and a half months later, after the first time, three and a half, four months later. This time she's gotten a boyfriend. They're in the town she lives in. Another different boyfriend. A different boyfriend.

This one had an older daughter that was around my oldest daughter's age that doesn't have a mother figure and had a little a younger boy and come to find out she apparently had told this that that girl that if her and her dad ever broke up she was going to kidnap her so that she could come live with her she was trying to take her out of state to flor Florida on a vacation when she didn't even have a car, doesn't have a job. Number two, you're not supposed to be around kids. The boyfriend helped out, helped her get the cops pick her up. And I get after the DA's office. I'm like, are we filing for a bond revocation?

Like, this is the second time. Like, you just going to keep. OK, the first time. OK, we didn't file for one but we also didn't ask for an ankle monitor nothing so that we can keep track that she's not going to hey walmart these big places where there's kids all around you know she's just on her own reconnaissance yeah she's out here walking the streets like you and i like nothing's happened right and so so the people who are meeting her don't have any reason to think that she's a

criminal right unless you're googling her up and knowing what to look at. And I'm like, we just keep letting this predator walk the streets like she's not treat. They're not treating her like she's dangerous. Exactly. And I'm like, what else is it going to take? Is it going to take her killing a kid before we're like, she's dangerous. So they finally end up falling for it. She gets her bond revoked.

So she's sitting in there and we go to this pre-hearing meeting, me and the oldest. Now backtrack, the oldest doesn't, the dad's never been there. So I'm in the process of adopting her. We go in there and they're like, hey, we're going to talk to her first.

You sit over here and then we're through with her. We'll talk to you. I get it. They didn't want us in there and they're like hey we're gonna talk to her first you said over here and then we're through with her we'll talk to you i get it they didn't want us in there at the same time so if we both went up on the stands you know they couldn't say you know we discussed everything we get to walking out and she goes dad they they brought something up in there and i was like what they asked me if i knew who my real dad was and I told them no and they said is it such and such and she goes I don't know and they're like yeah that's him and I'm like are you kidding me then they didn't so I go in there I at this point I didn't know when I went in there with them didn't say nothing to me about it we're in the midst of the sentencing hearings now and they are talking the lawyers are

to the da is talking to her before she goes on the stand yeah so we went in two or three days before they have you go in to go over like what the setting's going to be like and just questions prep prep okay so they're prepping 13 year olds for to go on the stand and they reveal to her the identity of her biological father, which she did not know before. Well, here's the part that really got me. They didn't, didn't tell me they did it. So I call Weber and I'm like, Hey, is this something they do? And he's like, that's, that's out of line. Why would they do that? And they didn't ask you first. I'm like, no, if they would have asked me like, Hey, does she know him? I would have told him no. So I call the DA that I'm dealing with now. And I'm like, or he didn't answer. Weber said, Hey, I'm going to text his boss and let him know

that you're mad. The DA's boss, I have now his boss. So we're just keep moving up the chain. Say everybody's boss. Yeah. So I get off the phone and I call the D.A. I've been talking to and doesn't answer. Five minutes later, he calls me back. I pick up the phone and I said, hey, I have a question. He said, I think I know what your question is. And he's like, man, I apologize. I didn't know that she didn't know. And I feel bad. I said, but here, hang on, hang on. Let me talk for a second. I said, if you were in my shoes and you had a child that didn't know certain information, important information, would you rather it come from you or somebody she didn't know? I get it.

I get it. And I said, this kid tells you she doesn't know and you proceed to tell her a name. So I'm frustrated. I get off the phone. I call him back a little bit later and I ask him something. I got one more question on her about earlier. How did you find this information out? And he said, it's what Jessica told us when we during the PSI. That's what she told the PSI investigator was this name. And I said, so, number one, we're getting this information from a habitual liar.

That's light about everything. Literally come to find out everything out of her mouth was a lie. Number two, you told a 13 year old this name and that may not even be 100% her dad. And now you got her going down a rabbit hole. And I'm like, you got to be kidding me. I'm sorry. I see what you're saying. I was like, so instead of known for 100% proof,

you took what a habitual liar said and said, hey, here, this is your dad oh my god or your bio dad he's like we it's it was standardized it's like standardized questioning we have to you know we it's like we're talking to her and we're asking her you know where if they try to ask her who you are to her that she sees you as dad and i'm like okay but when she tells you, she don't know, don't keep going. He's like, well, after we said that name and she's like, oh, okay. We dropped it there. Well, that was too far. After we'd already said the thing,

we didn't say anything else. That is wild. I was like, the moment we got home after that, she's like, Hey, we looked this person up on Facebook. I want to see what they look like. I'm like, so yeah, you did open up a whole rabbit hole, right? Cause of course it's like, the moment we got home after that, she's like, hey, we looked this person up on Facebook. I want to see what they look like. I'm like, so, yeah, you did open up a whole rabbit hole. Right. Because, of course, it's like, of course, they're going to be curious. Yeah. Oh, my God. And I'm like, so, and come to find out, we can't even find this guy.

And I'm like, so, I had to break it to her that, you know, that may not even be the person. They're not 100% certain, but that came from her egg donor. Because I don't refer to her as their mother anymore. certain but that came from her egg donor because i don't refer to her as their mother anymore i tell everybody that's their egg donor she doesn't when she did what she did she lost the title being called a mother she's an egg donor um so i was frustrated that so how so you go you go through the sentencing hearing and i mean it sounds like at this point you're very worried that she's going to get off with probation because the DA has basically been telling you that this might end with probation.

I was worried after she broke her bond the second time and moved it to a felony. So I knew she had this on her. I just found out that we was originally supposed to have an earlier sentencing date, but she got her attorney to get with the judge to ask for continuance because she had a heart something, something scan that she needed to go to. It was on that day. So the judge, you know, granted it because, Hey, if she really does have a medical issue, let's get it taken care of. Whatever that day

comes for, which I remember that day vividly. Cause that was her birthday. It was June 25th and come to find out she didn't go to that heart doctor appointment. She told her family that the heart doctor or the person that was supposed to do the scan had called in sick. She told the heart doctor, the front office, that she wasn't going to be able to make it in because she was in the hospital with her daughter who had had five back-to-back seizures. Perfect. And I'm like, so. It just never, it never ends. It never ends. So come to find out after hearing stories,

the latest boyfriend that she had, the most recent one, she had told them that she was a trauma nurse at JPS, had shown them pictures of like a ER room with some blood and stuff in there. And she said, this is one of the rooms that she had worked. You know, this is, you know, while they were cleaning it up. She went as far as to finding cases somehow

that had happened in there. And I don't know if she was Googling. I don't know how she was doing it, but she was telling them stories about cases she worked while in there that were actual cases that happened at JPS. Stuff that was reported in the news probably yeah it's I don't know oh but she told them that her kids were with me for the summer she got them back August 1st that's what she was telling everybody is that I I had them for the summer um told them that once they started to catch on a little bit, that everything was going to be wiped clean.

It was all my fault. I was the one that did everything. I was the one that was giving the kids the medicine and they had her attorney had the evidence to prove it. And I'm like, I found all this out during the sentencing trial while we were there. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You're still trying to blame me. Like you still cannot take responsibility for your actions. And that's what I kept telling her. Completely compulsive, right? Yeah. And that's what I was telling the DA's office and everybody. I'm like, look, she's always gotten away with a slap on her hand all the way through life. Her family's always bailed her out. Her uncle's always been there to bail her out.

I was like, until she gets hit with the harsh reality that there's consequences for your actions, she's never going to change. Now, granted, even with getting hit with this harsh reality, I doubt she changes. Because the moment her daughter walked up on that stand to testify, her emotion didn't change once. No remorse, nothing. The judge tells her she gets 60 years, no emotion. I want to tell you about a show I love, Truer Crime from Cilicia Stanton. My favorite true crime shows are the ones where I feel like the creator has a real stake in what they're talking about, and this is definitely the case with Cilicia, who got interested in covering crime because, like many of us in this genre, she experienced it. In each episode of the show, Cilicia brings a personal, deeply insightful lens to the crime that she covers, whether it's a famous case like

the Manson murders or Jonestown, or a lesser- known case that needs to be heard, like the story of a modern lynching. She covers these stories with a fresh and thoughtful lens, helping listeners understand not just the case itself, but why it matters to our understanding of the world. Her long-awaited second season is airing now, and the first season is ready to binge. So go check out True or Crime with Cilicia Stanton wherever you get your podcasts. If you've been listening to this show for a while, you know that I have very strong feelings about what is and is not responsible true crime content. Maybe you've heard me make some pointed comments about the producers of a certain film, or perhaps you've heard one of my dozen or so rants about a certain journalist whose

name rhymes with Schmeichel. And if you've been with me for a while, you'll also know that getting Nobody Should Believe Me on the air was quite the roller coaster. Podcasting is just the Wild West, y'all. And these experiences are what led me to launch my new network, True Story Media, where we are all about uplifting true crime creators doing the work and making thoughtful, survivor-centric shows. And I could not be more thrilled to announce our very first creator partner, You Probably Think This Story's About You. The first season of this enthralling show from breakout creator Brittany Ard took podcasting by storm in 2024, zooming to the number one spot

in the charts on Apple and Spotify, as Britney revealed the captivating story of a romantic deception that upended her life and traced the roots of her own complicated personal history that led her there. Britney is back in 2025 with brand new episodes, this time helping others tell their own stories of betrayal, heartache, and resilience. If you love Nobody Should Believe Me, I think you will also love You Probably Think This Story's About You for its themes of deception, complex family intrigue, and its raw, vulnerable storytelling. You can binge the full first season and listen to brand new episodes each week by following the show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can also find it at the link in our show notes. So they have the sentencing hearing and then the judge makes his decision. And are you sitting in the room when that happened? I was, I was, I was front row. Um, her attorney had asked for probation, said that she had, you know, had tried to commit suicide three times in her life. Once when she was 12 years old, when he said that her mother went, and I'm like, never heard of that before. News to news to her parents. Apparently once in high school and then once in jail,

but he's like, you know know we think rehabilitation and probation like we really think we can get her there it'd be the best route like sort of this is a woman who needs help kind of that that's yeah she'd already went to therapy whatever twice and what first time was a week. The second time was like a month since all this had came out in 2022. And the judge sat there and he's like, you know, he's like, I'm not going to say it. Actually, I am. We don't want you to commit suicide, but I can. You are a danger to society and I can't allow you to walk the streets. And he's like, I'm going to send it to you to 60 years because I'd went in. I'd went. I had friends that were like, hey, you know, all this, they got on her now.

She's going to get 45. I was like, no, never. I was like, I would put money on that. I said, most women either walk away with probation or just a couple of years. That's it. I mean, even, even women that kill their kids. I mean, two of the most famous cases of child deaths, they, much lighter sentences. I mean, that I was that's shocking. 60 years is shocking in one of these cases because not because it's too harsh, in my opinion, but especially for someone who's really showing in every way possible that they're going to commit it as soon as they have the chance again. But like just because you don't usually see judges taking that this seriously. Well, I was telling people if she gets 20, I'll be happy. 30, I'll be ecstatic. And if she got 40 years, I'd sing Hallelujah.

It shouldn't even have been a worry from the get-go because Weber handed the DA's office this case on a silver platter. And they're like, no, let's just put it on a paper plate. That's really how it felt. I mean, I had to fight them the whole time to stay after it. So once I said 60, I was just that the rest of that day, I was in shock. I was I couldn't even drive. And I think it was also the shock that it was finally over. Yeah, because it sounds like it had been just a grind from like the moment that you

discovered the abuse to like that, that moment. I stayed and stayed on top of them. I know they probably hated me by the end, but I don't care. You can hate me, but it's my kids that I'm fighting for. I had even went to the point of before the sentence was made or for the court date, I tried to go to the elected DA of Tarrant County. I tried to set up a meeting, the highest of the highest of the high you can go, Phil Sorrells. I tried to go there and they're like, why do you want a meeting? This is your DA. And I'm like, I know that's my DA, but I want to talk to this guy about how it's going and problems I'm having. Okay. I will have them get in contact with you. I have not to this day heard anything. Yeah. Well, we'll see when he's up for reelection. So I want to do the best I can and get this known

about, and not just my case, but this disease, this, this illness, whatever you want to call it, so that our DA's offices, our judges, our detectives, you know, doctor, everybody needs to be more aware of this and know about it more. The society, you know, needs to know about it more. There needs to be more things that can help, you know, and that's, and I've told, I told Detective Weber, I talk, I talk to him often now, and that's my goal for the rest of my life is to do what I can to help. I'm going to try to do whatever I can to come up with anything that I can think of, and it may be the silliest idea, and everybody can shoot me down, but I'm going to do what I can to try to help implement things that can help to protect kids because first person that's supposed to protect them are the parents and if when the parents ain't somebody else has

got to try to help and yeah the kids grow up supposed to trust their parents and look up to them maybe I can help like I said even if I help two or kids out, then I will feel accomplished. Well, we're sure glad to have you in the fight, Derek. I'm sorry for how you got here, but really, really, really appreciate you coming on to tell your story because I agree with you that I think that awareness is a big first step. But I, you know, I'm so glad that you're doing so much to connect with the community and that will help you help them too. And like, you know, they're, they're better off tackling how to sort of combat all of those things that we always hear from survivors. You know, they, they have time on their side, right? So it's, they're not trying to do that when they're 30. They're blossoming now. They're doing great. They've they've taken my girlfriend in.

We've been together for two years and the girls don't talk. The youngest ones don't talk about Jessica anymore. Once in a blue moon, will they bring her up? But they talk about how she's a bad person. They now call refer to my girlfriend as mother. They've they've attached. She's actually shown them what a mother figure is supposed to be. The oldest one is sucked right up to her. You know, they're two peas in a pod. I swear half the time, if anything was ever having me and her, she's going to choose her over me. You know, not really. I mean, she's she's gonna choose her over me you know not not really

i mean she's oh she's gonna be a daddy's girl but uh they've sucked up right to her and you know so they're they're really blossoming i mean it's just great to actually see them get to grow and enjoy what childhood they the oldest one gets to enjoy what childhood she has left but then the other ones they get to you know they were young enough that I want to just fill their life with joy so that maybe they can push most of those bad memories out. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's really beautiful. And I'm really happy for you and your family that you had a good outcome. And Jessica is where she belongs and will be there for at least quite some time. And thank you so much for taking the time to tell this story and share this with us. I know it's not easy to relive all these details and I just, I really, really appreciate having your voice on here. It makes a huge difference to people listening And, you know, we have a lot of survivors who listen.

We have a lot of folks in the medical profession. We have a lot of folks who work in various sort of child protection agencies. So it's really, you know, it really resonates when you when you hear some story from someone like you. So thank you so much. Hey, thank you for having me on here. Nobody Should Believe Me Case Files is produced and hosted by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our editor is Greta Stromquist

and our senior producer is Mariah Gossett. Administrative support from Nola Karmouche. If you've been listening to this show for a while, you know that I have very strong feelings about what is and is not responsible true crime content. Maybe you've heard me make some pointed comments about the producers of a certain film, or perhaps you've heard one of my dozen or so rants about a certain journalist whose name rhymes with Schmeich-Schmeichsen-Bog. And if you've been with me for a while, you'll also know that getting Nobody Should Believe Me on the air was quite the rollercoaster.

Podcasting is just the Wild West, y'all. And these experiences are what led me to launch my new network, True Story Media, where we are all about uplifting true crime creators, doing the work, and making thoughtful, survivor-centric shows. And I could not be more thrilled to announce our very first creator partner, You Probably Think This Story's About You. The first season of this enthralling show from breakout creator Brittany Ard took podcasting by storm in 2024, zooming to the number one spot in the charts on Apple and Spotify as Brittany revealed the captivating story of a romantic deception that upended her life

and traced the roots of her own complicated personal history that led her there. Brittany is back in 2025 with brand new episodes, this time helping others tell their own stories of betrayal, heartache, and resilience. If you love Nobody Should Believe Me, I think you will also love You Probably Think This Story's About You for its themes of deception, complex family intrigue, and its raw, vulnerable storytelling. You can binge the full first season and listen to brand new episodes each week by following the show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find it at the link in our show notes.